This is one of the most useful videos on Against the Storm out there. The logic/explanation that you share for each building is actually more valuable than the ranking itself, because it gives some perspective when evaluating buildings. I don't know if you're still as heavily invested into the game, but I'd really appreciate if you did an updated version of this video now that we're into the 1.0 release of the game. It doesn't need to be that long and detailed, maybe only focus on the changes that have happened up to and including the release version? Anyway - great work and you've earned a sub here!
I 100% agree with this comment. Been waiting for the 1.0 release and loving the game but man is there a lot to juggle in your head. Would love to know what changed since this video was uploaded. At the moment when I play I pop up this tier list on my other monitor as a reference guide if the choice is not obvious for my needs.
Totally agree. I kind of already agreed with all these rankings, maybe I was underrating the ranch and the carpenter, but more than anything I was not thinking about how the complex food items satisfied different species' resolve/needs. I was just baking biscuits and pies in every run. I didn't understand how strong pickled goods and porridge are
It's worth noting there have been some changes since this video came out,, just quickly the smithy and the smelter have different recipes in the 2nd slot. there's probably other differences as well
I really enjoyed this vid. I actually learned quite a bit. It's ever so slightly out of date(Brickyard and Temple got reworked, Guild House got slightly nerfed), but most of the considerations in this vid are still valid today. The big things I learned was that I really have been overprioritizing clothes a lot (I really should just be buying those in most games, they take soooo agonizingly long to make), and I've been massively undervaluing the makeshift post and by extension, massively overvaluing the provisioner and manufactory (I've been suspecting this was the case for awhile, but I really appreciate the confirmation). I think the Plantation is much closer in viability to the herb garden than you're giving it credit for (though I agree both are worse than Small Farm). Berries and herbs really do a lot of the same stuff, and what they have in common is way more important than what they do different. You definitely want one over the other, and given the choice between herb garden and plantation, herb garden is generally preferred, but I'd take plantation over no farm on almost any run, and even if I already have the small farm I might still pick up a plantation if offered because having an efficient way to make provision materials is just that nice, which is the one thing you can't really do with a small farm. There is no need to run plantation alongside herb garden though, waaay too much overlap. I do think the service buildings are much closer together in viability than you're giving them credit for. The main draw of service buildings is the resolve bonus you get from allowing your villagers to consume luxury goods. A +8 resolve bonus to a race is massive and can turn a stable game state into a winning game state pretty easily, and for this reason the actual effect of the service building is quite frankly secondary to just making sure the services match up well with my 3 races. For this same reason, the double service buildings are waaay better than single service buildings. A double service building will hit at least 2 if not all three of your races, and may allow for one of your races to double dip for an utterly insane +16 resolve bonus. With the proper setup, this effect is gamewinning on its own and any other effects are kinda just a cherry on top. Likewise, single service buildings are just kinda worse by default unless they come with an utterly *busted* effect, and the only one that gets close to that level of busted is the Guild House imo, and I still don't rate that super highly due to reasons I'll go into below. The other thing to consider with service buildings is that they're pretty expensive. Most buildings require 10 or fewer planks and/or 5 or fewer bricks/fabric. It is not uncommon for service buildings to require 20+ of a given building material, with guild house requiring a jaw dropping 40 planks. Even if the passive effect is strong, you're slowing yourself down quite a lot trying to place one down, so you better have some luxury goods to consume when you do so even if you have to buy them off a trader (indeed, buying a stack of luxury goods for my newly completed service building is a pretty common way for me to close out games). For this reason, I rate all the double service buildings in high B tier - low A tier, they're all pretty setup dependent and I will almost always prioritize the service building I have the better setup for over how good I think the effect is, because I value the service resolve bonus just that highly. Likewise I value all the single service buildings at around mid C tier, with the Guild House being closer to high C tier just due to the raw strength of its scaling global resolve bonus. And yes, if you're following along, this does mean I put Temple above Guild House. That's my hot take for this vid.
There are 2 reasons to convert items into other items of the same or even lower value: 1) Items needed for glade events (like wood -> coal) 2) Traders always buy trade goods (like planks -> boxes of building materials) while not always buying materials they are made of
Subbed. This vid. is a masterpiece. surprises me it does not have more views. Please consider more of this, updated shorter versions, or the like. What you mastered here is efficiency, which is crucial for a mountain of knowledge like this and for the entertainment factor. Your explanations have the perfect length and depth. not too long or too short.
The point where the Herb garden becomes just unhinged is the biscuits boost. Getting +1 boosts every 75 biscuits produced is damn strong, and the Herb garden alone can output the farm at some point even considering (+50% production make it even stronger if you get your hand on the cornerstone, as it multiplies the bonus too) and just snowball with the biscuits it's used to produce, making them and pies an easy job along stuff for provisions, culture bags, beer and other stuff herbs are involved in. Neat.
I'm level 9 and play on Veteran difficulty, and in my games, I'd say the Forester's Hut is S tier, possibly even the best building in the game. Why? Because a lot of the game is about getting access to tools, and that means either the copper way or the crystalized dew way. The copper way means finding a source of copper (some maps don't have this) and getting a blueprint to make copper bars. And sources of copper are often limited in how much copper they provide, and the mine is really slow at producing copper. Meanwhile, if you get the Forester's Hut, as long as you have one patch of fertile soil (and the human ability is to reveal the closest one at the beginning of the game), you have unlimited tools easily, and you don't need an extra blueprint, the scarcest resource in the game. And if you overproduce tools, you can produce barrels, or use the sap for incense, or just repurpose the fertile soil with another building. As such the Forester's Hut is very useful throughout the game.
Agreed. In Prestige 10 currently and still getting bang for my buck with a beaver/fox forester hut synergy. Metallurgic Proficiency stacks with it too, which is nuts.
I'm still progressing through the game myself. Currently at level 12, playing on viceroy difficulty, and I think you may be overvaluing tools. The majority of the rep I gain comes from Resolve and Orders. Hardly ever do I send caches to the Queen, nor I do feel a need to. Mainly because caches requires so many tools, which are a pain in the ass to come by, and often because I'd rather have the resources from the caches. I've also sold tools to traders in order to buy resources I need for a glade event or a perk/cornerstone I really want. Therefor, I'd rather say that a lot of the game is about increasing Resolve and fulfilling Orders. Tools are a nice bonus, but hardly critical.
Being slightly past mid way in the citadel upgrades, I’m really grateful I’ve stumbled on your video. It really helps cement lots of thing I’m already doing on Viceroy difficulty. Notably, I always took carpenter or lumbermill no matter what else is there. Bricks and fabric are ok with the crude workshop (on my current difficulty) but oh boy do you need planks. I also don’t need service buildings to win so far, only a mixture of orders, rep through resolve and a few caches opening towards the end, but at least I need what to look for now. I did a lot of silly deed challenge hunts, so I know how important fighting hostility can be, so I tend to focus on anything that reduces it OR rush the victory ASAP. With my limited experience, your list sounds very accurate, but I guess I need to try the leatherworker (and fabric buildings in general) a bit more…
great video. You have a real skill in explaining these concepts and have presented the information in an easily understandable and entertaining way! not everyone can pull that off!
I don't think Clay Pit needs a buff. The point of inefficient buildings (Crude Workststion, Field Kitchen) is that having an access to a recipe is infinitely better than not having it.
The Clay Pit is also the only way to source clay outside of finding clay nodes. On maps where clay/stone nodes are in short supply, or where reeds could play well into your production chain, it can be an invaluable building. Pair it with a greenhouse and you have consistent production of almost every base-type resource. The caveat being access to a nearby clearance water geyser really makes this building worth it (still viable/useful without one, but these become very valuable with one).
It also allows for 2 workers per building, which can translate to 6, or even 8 workers producing clay/reeds where large fields exist, which is a very efficient use of fields.
@@justindcook9 You can get clay from copper mines, reed nodes, and flax nodes, and you can find one or multiple of those on every map, so you can always get clay. You can also get it from the clay delivery line, or you can just buy it. Alternatively you can use stone for almost anything that uses clay except pottery, and pottery can be replaced with any other container type. There's never a world where you need clay. Reeds are definitely more versatile but generally still not as versatile as anything else you can put on fertile soil that requires less input. It can't become any kind of food, most notably.
Nice job working thru all the buildings. Now my input for the discussion that you asked for: If I were to offer some constructive criticism, I would have liked to see you factor in the blueprint building footprint size more in your deliberations and talk about its affect on building production. The 2x2 building footprints are the most desirable size because they allow you to fit them into your settlement easier. Every building loses production time when its workers go out for delivery, resource acquisition, or break. Large buildings have to be pathed around and take up more of the prime real estate between the hearth and the warehouse. You always want to situate your production between the hearth and warehouse so you minimize the amount of production time lost in villager pathing. Also the number of workers that can work in a building is important for the same reason. You touched on how buildings with more workers get a more efficient return from the rain engine installed in it, but I didn't hear you talk about how having more workers effectively "decreases their footprint". For example rather than having 2 of one building to meet a demand you may be able to meet it with one building that can utilize more workers. As far as where I would differ in my own picks to your tier list it is difficult to comment in a comprehensive way because of all of the factors and information involved and I think that maybe I haven't considered everything either. I will highlight the ones that stick out to me. First is the druid hut. Its a nifty 2x2 footprint 3 worker building which is great for the reasons mentioned above that has the best oil recipe in the game which you touched on. I concur that its other recipes are kind of trash, but because of what oil is I don't think that really matters. Oil is a fuel so it is always useful in any villager loadout for standard hearth fueling (never not relevant). Oil can also be sacrificed at the hearth for a global production speed bonus which is huge. You mention that you value planks as building materials because they are used in everything. using oil for burning can free up that wood needed for planks and can be used as a substitute for all the recipes where fuel is consumed. On top of that it can fill in as a trade good for the pack of trade goods recipe and be used to craft the water skin container. Utilizing oil in all its functions has single handedly "upped my game" so to speak so I think druid hut needs to be above C tier. At least it should be higher than the press which doesn't get a production bonus from any race and has a larger footprint. Brick oven is in a lesser but similar vein for me given that pie is one of the best foods in the game and has its own cornerstone that elevates it to godlike. The cookbook cornerstone adds a jerky for every pie made which immediately fulfills two needs for both lizards and harpies. Kind of like the skewers/pickled goods one for the fox/lizard combo (side note, maybe lizards are better than I thought). Just in terms of making the pie, the brick oven outshines the bakery in recipe, in footprint, and in worker amount. If I need biscuits or pottery, like you said its better if I look to the apothecary and stamping mills or brickyard. The next one that sticks out is the greenhouse. The building provides all the food elements necessary for porridge ,pie, biscuits, pickled goods and half of skewers all on its own. You can also turn it into wine, tea, and pack of crops. Mushrooms are so versatile that its hard for me to see the greenhouse in C tier. I won't die on that hill because of the drizzle water requirement, but I would bump it up. Last but not least is the temple. Its effect seems like it may be at odds with the desire to not have to sacrifice fuel, but if you invest more into fuel like oil and coal then you can start to think of the fuel sacrifice mechanic as a way to raise resolve rather than just to keep people from leaving in a storm. I will get the temple midgame and burn oil made from the druid hut or press around the clock for production speed and more readily burn my wood and coal to reduce the hostility for more resolve. The temple effect can really close out the game once you have good fuel generation. At the victory screen it doesn't matter if you had one log left or thousands in reserve.
Oil was my way to success in the sealed forests so I agree on value. It can effectively be infinitely produced with farms while minimizing tree cutting to avoid stacking up too much hostility outside of just pathing from clearing to clearing. On top of being super useful for general events *and* having good synergy with flour production (with some cornerstones really making it easier to get)
3 star oil is produced with such speed and abudance, it felt like 2 presses/druids dedicated to oil would allow me to have tier 3 oil sacrifices around the clock.
Listen bro, I take serious issue with your slander of the advanced rain collector. You may think it's not worthwhile but that graceful gazelle has saved me from more than one sticky situation. Like let's say we're in a situation where you need some rain... possibly to be collected... who does it better than the advanced rain collector? no one, bro no one! Just in case it wasn't clear that was all sarcasm, great video!
Great video! I learnt a lot about the game watching this. About your question in the end, I'd rank them 1) How to play in different biomes 2) Which to unlock first 3) Synergies between species.
I'd say that the greenhouse is at least A tier. If you get this early and has an access to fertile soil + geyser, it's an easy win. Next, you need to go for Provisioner (flour from mushrooms, provisions from herbs) and Bakery (biscuits + pie, both from flour and herbs) - and you are no longer dependant on opening glades for food, you're self-suficient. Next thing to get is some building to make Wine (from mushrooms that you have abundance) + carpenter - easy trade win.
Something he didn't consider that I think is worth mentioning is that greenhouse is consistent production vs. farming. You can put villagers in and pull them out as needed without worrying about "messing up the harvest" by missing a season. It also means that you can adjust what you're producing there instantly, as needed. The second point about the greenhouses I like is that they fit in a section of 4 fields. It's not hard to fit 3 greenhouses onto a single farm field plot, either; that's 9 production slots all working on consistent output, all year round.
"If you get fertile soil and a specific type of geyser and these specific other blueprints, this building is A tier" Well hell that applies to everything in the entire game.
As a new player that's about to start the Silver Seal with 8 Reserve Embarkation Points, I've gained some extremely valuable insight from this video and it will 100% help me with my Blueprint choices (I figured out a lot of the more basic stuff on my own, but never thought about the intricacies/values of mid-late game resources in depth and this does a lot of it for me) Thank you! I am a bit confused about the Coats point, as I valued them fairly much until now (depending on my races of course), but when at least 2 of them can use Coats, it feels like a nice and easy resolve. And at least for now, I tend to start generating a decent amount of Prestige through Resolve from mid game onwards. This probably will be harder in later difficulties?
About the Bath house: 1. Producing faster leads to getting the stuff you need faster, which means you get resolve from those items faster, or more trade goods for when the trader arrives. 2. Not having workers for a new building is a problem, having unemployed workers because you are done with what you need, is not a problem at all. The main problem is that it only provides one service, while almost all (if not all) other service buildings provides two. Still, I think it is a Tier B building.
I’m often running out of end products, not because of a lack of raw resources, but because they just aren’t being produced fast enough. In general, the resource I run lowest on is people, so the bath house is a great buff, especially if you’ve got foxes and harpies. (Given how often he mentioned that the coat recipe is bad purely because of how long it takes, I’m surprised he didn’t connect it with the bath house. Obviously buildings that stand on their own are an easier pick, but 1 cloth for ten coats is great resource economy, so a bath house makes that recipe even more viable while buffing all the other production buildings as well. If only it had more than one leisure).
@@bob8mybobbob Yea I hear people talking shit on worker speed because it produces too much down time, and I think what people are doing is trying to force a min/max solution when really they should be thinking in terms of ratios/time-tables closer to a game like Factorio. Where you take the increased worker speed to use the minimum amount of workers required to satisfy your end product needs, and then use those extra slots to assign extra workers elsewhere in your city, or to use that extra labour to scale up that production. This is one of the big learning curves to get maximum value out of Rain Engines, you have to make the engines work for you, not you for the engine. What the extra speed out of the engines allows you to to do is fufill the same demand with less workers, if you crank up the speed and use max workers and then complain about idle-time, you are not incorporating a plan that extracts value out of your engines. I think this is where the controversy around worker speed arises. It becomes a more relevant issue with farms
@@followingtheroe1952 Figuring out those ratios seem considerably harder though, since you don't have reliable belts or bots to deliver materials in a timely and consistent fashion... You'd need to factor in travel time, carry capacity, break times, any events or mysteries that impact production or travel somehow. The game doesn't really provide any good data on output or consumption either... An up or down arrow to indicate whether you're gaining or losing a resource is not really much to go on. I don't even know what time frame it uses. Frankly, sounds like a pain in the ass, but I get your point and will certainly take this into consideration going forward. Seems like it's spreadsheet time! If anyone has a good sheet on production, I'd love to see it.
Temple being d tier is no longer true, its basically S+ now atleast on tbe difficulty im playing. You can completely negate all hostility with it now, removing nearly all debuffs.
Highly disagree, the point where it becomes worth sacrificing for temple is very niche When pushing for reputation, you're probably going to be at around 2-3 hostility, which means the top end of temple is 4-6 global resolve outside of storm Oil burning is the only sacrifice that actually boosts your settlement's efficiency, if you burn wood it's like you have a bunch of people running on a treadmill in place To support just 1 stack of oil burning you need probably 6-7 people at least for the ingredients, conversion and rainwater/blightrot handling, which means you're barely breaking even on labor with a 30 person settlement because of diminishing returns with other production speed bonuses Temple does have its place when you get fuel perks, a good oil supply chain, and the building itself, it's just much less consistent than just monastery and has worse services provided versus tavern and explorer's lodge I would put temple as a low B/high C tier
I actually find the Clay Pit to be very very good, if you also have a Ranch. With both of these it's basically unlimited food stuffs, especially Pickled Goods, as you can feed Reeds to every option in the Ranch.
I think tier list is kinda useless in against the storm Depending on Pillar/Playstyle/Bonuses/Races/Maps/What you found as ruins/PreviousBuildings you already chose, you create your own "needs" thus your own tier list
The thing with the Brewery that can "save it" is that it can fit in a mission that gives you the Tavern for havign a brewery and beer, so you have the producing building, the Taver which is just incredible, and a rep point along other ressources.
It’d be interesting to break building tier into early mid and late game. Like a table with tier on the left and game time on top with each building listed. I really don’t want camps if I’m in deep late game but I’m dying for them early on. Great video
Clay Pit with a clearance water geyser unlock so many things honestly. You don't have to worry about a source for bricks and textile, you have the basis for a decent stream of pottery for glades, food, trade packs and services, and can feed everything in the ranch with reeds, which unlock a lot of food basis it multiplies into, which then gives even more stuff related like complex food, oil, cheaper textile, provision bags... Putting it at the lowest position is overlooking the role it can play (especially in a lizard build). It really gets better with the ranch but it's already pretty good to me from the start. The building alone give you the basis for wine and gears if you can produce crystallized dew, or can directly mine rocks for the gears and for road upgrade if you got the perk, so that's pretty solid to me.
Clay pit is totally useless when you have a super easy to find cornerstone which give you 20 clay/20 reeds for every glade. Usually you get enough clays/stone in the map, or you can just buy it (super cheap). Trades routes/traders are your friend
First, amazing video, really cool to hear your inputs. Could have been fun to make it with someone else and making it a discussion. They could have been the devil's advocate for some of those buildings^^
1. It would be helpful to include the game build / patch for which you are making the ranking since the game receives updates/balance changes quite frequently. 2. On first impression you seem to value buildings on their "draft" worth but then include Field Kitchen in the list which is confusing. I know you have to unlock it in the Citadel but it is still essential blueprint. 3. I disagree on Clay Pit. It is one building solution that fixes otherwise crippling Brick/Fabric problem that you could have in many biomes. It is also very steady and on demand production. Other than enabling all Brick/Fabric buildings it can enable all Ranch recipes and make Pottery/Crystalized Dew Buildings a very reliable path to take. 4. Advanced Rain Collector is situational but I would trade 6 Pipes for 5 Parts in almost every scenario so it is strictly better than standard Rain Collector in every way. 5. You most likely made this tier list before housing update but Pigment is essential for upgrading Harpy Houses. It also made Resin production even more important. 6. I think you overvalue Small Farm quite a bit. You also grade it on Embarkation value not "draft" value which is inconsistent in my opinion.
I'd say the best resorce in Mid Game is .. Amber If u manage to keep queen bar low and make a shiton of Amber [80 amber making a lot of trade routes and having luck] you can just call the commerce guys instantly and buy recipes from them, if you re lucky you will get strat changing recipes. Do not understimate the maket system as it is easy to exploit. Also the biome is super important to ur strat if ur lucky there is certain biome-speficic traits that are BROKEN, like the ome that when u gather in Rain Weather, the nodes become fertile soil, oh boy thats funny to play!
Overall all a great list! Here are my main disagreements: Forum - I believe you overvalue this effect. For 15% production bonus chance each worker is only providing a +5% chance each. That means you need to have a minimum of 20 other workers just to break even, not counting all other production bonuses from hearths and so on. This is not going to pay for itself until very late game compared to just using the workers directly. Press/Druid's hut - I used to play a lot before the fox update so perhaps embarking with oil isn't justified anymore, but Press and Druid's hut are at least A tier if not S tier with the incredible 2 to 5 ratio. Oil can 1. be used in so many glade events still 2. Removes the need to use wood for fuel and woodcutters to chop it 3. can be turned into trade goods 4. can be sacrificed in the hearth which is massively powerful if you can sustain it 5. Allows you to go hard on rainpunk since you have the fuel necessary to burn cysts. Oil is amazing. Leatherworker - I so rarely find myself having enough leather to get decent amounts of leatherskins but I might have been sleeping on this one. I'll consider drafting it more often. Field Kitchen - I rarely use this at all due to the opportunity cost. The labor is usually better spent elsewhere, even just producing raw food is usually preferable. The food output from it is close to 1 to 1 for the ingredient input, so the benefit you're getting is mostly resolve. If you really need the resolve sure but otherwise not worth it imo, the possible exception being porridge since it turns inedibles into food. I value the 1 star food recipes a bit higher because of that as well. Small Farm - I'm conflicted about this, I don't usually embark with the small farm but maybe I should. I would say that if you don't the value of all flour dependent recipes and buildings go down a lot. The path to producing biscuits for instance requires three individual buildings plus the herbs (or whatever else) to actually make the biscuits in the end and none of the first two stages are edible. It's very unreliable once you get to higher prestige and it's usually going to be late game before you're able to reliably produce it. Then again you can make porridge with it. I think you're also undervaluing 1 star luxury goods recipes. For the early game these are great because they enable you to make 30 of whichever for glade events. Late game you'll typically have enough resources that you might not even need a more efficient recipe for it. Really nice to see this in depth walkthrough. I find there to not be enough good content on Against the Storm on UA-cam.
Great video! I agree with most, except building with coats or tea. Most of my game turns out to win by pleasing Harpy/Fox. Therefore, having a coat building in a game with harpy is at least 1.5 reputation.
I just beat the gold seal and man the advanced rain collector would be insta garbo tier for me. And that was before making some good points that i was unaware about. ( aim still at only like prestige 5 or 6)
It's weird that I play on P20 and disagree with many of your picks. For instance I don't value Small Farm so highly because 1) you really need to get it early to take advantage of it 2) it requires fertile soil 3) you can't use grain for much without a secondary building or the inefficient field kitchen, so it doesn't solve your food problem in the early game 4) it only gets 2x from humans, which are IMO a mid-tier race and 5) it can't be piped to get 25% to 2x. It might be that the game has been balanced since you released this video, but I find that the tier list is quite even, with most buildings being viable in different situations even on P20.
I'm missing a small, tiny thing; I reckon there is a significant difference in the optimal choice for buildings - biome, and situation aside: difficulty. The same building could even change tier both up or down with regards to viceroy, P10, or P20.
Hi, thanks for video, my thoughts on buildings. This will be long reply. I have 30-50 games played, couple games lost due to lack of game knowledge in early cycles, and rushing to finish games, because i thought when update comes cycle ends and Viceroy level games restart, glad it isn't the case. 1)Advanced rain engine, haven't ever used it, bots in rain engine is most powerful for me. I rarely worry about idle workers because i usually open 1-2 glides per year, 1 dangerous or forbidden in middle game, and couple first years only around 10 small glides without opening dangerous glade, dear messes early game sometimes, but greed is good. My problem usually is lack of food, or impatience increases too fast, and always not enough workers, even when more than 50 workers. When you have idle workers you can always build more buildings. 2) Bath house, on higher Viceroy levels where you get i think 30-50% faster people leaving, lowering it by 30% is good, there have been games where i lost 5-10 people in one storm, couple years in row, and lost that game. But i rarely pick service buildings in blueprints, because blueprints are scarce, and i don't want to waste them when i can get service buildings by opening dangerous glades. Mostly pick them when there is no needed resource, production building. 3) Provisioner, i am surprised you don't value provisions more, if you have food then you can trade it on trade routes, and get many gold to buy house blueprints or +1,+2 production, there was one game where i sold couple hundred gold worth of goods and couple times bought 80% of trader goods. 4) Smelter, i would put smelter in B because pipes are used in glade events, so you don't have to waste service resources, and especially when you have smithy, you can make tools also. What you mean by placing warehouse next to glade event, do you mean place it next to glade event you are going to open or place it after you open glade event, so you can deliver items from finished glade event? I have 70% of building choice like you, and 30% changed by 1 tier. Haven't played with couple buildings yet. Can you make couple videos specially for each biome, tier list? Maybe not right away, but year or 2 from now.
I disagree on the greenhouse... if you have a drizzle geyser and a high pop of foxes, I usually make 2 or 3 greenhouses in just 1 fértiles soil patch, you can put extra ones as usually you'll have more than enough fertile soil for 3 or 4 and your foxes will have so much resolve...apart from that herbs work in most recipes for complex food like biscuit pie, mushroom makes flour...in some games greenhouse is all I need to set up my complex food chain, I'd definitely put it in the stier if a drizzle geyser is discovered
Provisioner building is one of my favs tbh. Im only Lv 12 in Citadel upgrades, so idk if better alternatives appear later, but as i see it just for making Provisions alone, 2 star, its the highest in game alongside Manufactory (which i never see at all btw!),lol. Provisions are the driving force for Trading (unless im not understanding something???), so i rate this building S-tier .
As he mentioned in the video; Provisions can be made in the Makeshift Post, which is an essential building, and gained from certain Cornerstones. I'd say this reduces the Provisioner building's value drastically, as the increased efficiency would not be as valuable as unlocking a whole new recipe.
@@wakko8005 in my experience, the bigger issue with 2 star provision buildings is that you can’t fully utilize them without already having a source of the input materials(which is food and competes with your villagers) and the other recipes are more situational. Reliability is #1 in this game which is why I say carpenter is #1 and distillery #2 I’ve unlocked the beanery recently and I’d rate it competitively with the distillery but I’m on the fence about giving up luxury production. They’re both excellent buildings
As someone who's only played in the nerfed tea doctor era, I think it's a pretty weak effect With a 30 villager settlement, eating complex food every 2 minutes by the start of year 6, that's a maximum 900 complex food eaten -> 4 resolve, if you have all 30 people eating complex food from their first break, which is obviously unrealistic and I would rate the passive lower than the tavern's; normally in my games I'm getting 2, maybe 3 resolve max from it It takes not only a ton of complex food but also a ton of people and time for the tea doctor to really shine I would like to hear your thoughts on the new temple passive with the reddit strat of burning oil, I feel like it's still fairly weak but at least has its niche than the "increased sacrifice time" passive you've discussed here, lol
1,5 month later and the rebalance already made this tier list require an update. Two buildings got 3-star recipes instead of 2, like brickhouse (forgot the other one atm) and the temple got a HUGE buff compared to what it was. I just started playing, having 2 finished settlements besides the tutorial, and I think as long as you have some cornerstones that increase wood production, it is an A or even S-tier now.
I think to improve the advanced rain collector devs can just make maps/modifications that remove gaisers. I think they can make that the further you are from center the maps are just overall harder. Like less chance of finding soil/gaiser. That way you will value this hyper special builings. For Clay pit I am not sure, itcan give stone , because stone is used to open stashes and make roads and thats will be at least something, but it will be the only building that gives 3 resources out of soil, which probably not whatvdevs want
I actually don't like Lumber Mill. Because if I'm ever offered Carpenter I'm 100% gonna take it - which significantly diminishes the value of Lumber Mill because I would rather have picked something else instead
I don't agree with small farm(map dependancy) 1st. I don't agree with D tier temple(though it is niche). Temple was a very good last pick building in a close game for burning your last storm and burning for victory points. When you're pretty much fully set up few things allow the same sort of push contribution.
I find myself using copper ore from the get-go for paths. The movement bonus is really nice and I typically can't use copper ore for anything else around that time, so I might as well. I've not had any regrets doing this yet but I'm still fairly early in the game.
The brick oven doesn’t provide value economically, but it does provide value with logistic efficiency. You can diversify your fuel sources and have buildings use something other than wood which lowers hostility and frees up additional workers. When every building needs wood to function, to build planks, tools, blight fuel, pottery, jerky, etc. it puts a huge strain on your wood supply. Instead, now a number of your buildings can use coal. Even if only the blight post uses coal that makes a really big difference.
Hold up. The Brick Oven turns wood into coal, at a ratio of 5:1, so you're still draining your wood supply. In fact, you're draining it even more, since most buildings would consume wood at the same or better ratio. Even burning wood in the hearth has a better ratio than that. You do condense it though, so your other workers can essentially carry more fuel and spend less time fetching materials, but you still spend manpower fetching wood to the Brick Oven and of course to actually produce it, so I'm not sure how much of a gain it really is.
Why do you wanna use jerkey to make skewers? isnt 3 jerkey more expensive than 4 raw food? Assuming you have a smokehouse and cookhouse, 3 jerkey costs about 1.5 raw meat and 1.7 wood, and 1 minute 45 sec. So you spend 1.45 minute and 1.7 wood to save 2.5 raw meat? Then there is the vegtables etc on top of that. Is skewers even remotly worth making instead of just keeping the jerkey at that point?
U have chance for duble the jerky production so it can be far more food save. I only make skewers from raw materials if i rly need the plus jerky or the fuel.
Jerky to Skewers is literally the best food doubling strategy in the game. You invest 5 meat and get 30 prepared food out of it. That is how good it is. 5 meat becomes 10 jerky and 10 jerky becomes 30 skewers. Does it need an explanation as to why this is incredible? And that ratio is without double production ticks. With some good luck and decent doubling chances, you will get 60 prepared food out of 5 meat. All your food problems will go away. Even on lower tier recipes this is still extremely good. Even if we use the field kitchen to make jerky, we use 8 meat to make 10 jerky, then we use a 2 star recipe to make skewers, we get 10 skewers for 3 jerky, so 8 meat becomes 33 skewers. That multiplies your meat by 4,16 times. So, 60 meat from a few starting small nodes in your starting zone ends up being 250 meals!!, enough to feed people for like 4+ cycles at least. In case you didn't know, everyone can eat skewers, not only those who get mood benefits from them, so feeding everyone with skewers is one of the best things to do, if you have the resources available to make them.
I dont remeber when was the last time i watched 2 hours video. wow. im still rather newbie, lvl 11 playing second diffculty. tried veteran once, and it was my only looose sofar so now im scared to try it again. I just dont feel comfortable in this game, its like i still missing a lot of things. Like why embark point cost changes for example.
I think placing the Small Farm at first place S-Tier is a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I think the Small Farm is the best (and I love it so much) to choose between the three of Herb Garden and Plantation, but there are situations in the game where the Small Farm does nothing if you have it, since there are maps with no fertile soil. This fact alone has to make other buildings better (in the placement of the Tier List) where there is just no mistake drafting them since they provide you something, if only a marginable benefit (like upgrading to the best plank producing building, since there is no map that doesn't give you wood). So therefore I think the Small Farm has to go down a few placements, somewhere between mid-S-Tier and low-S-Tier. I also think the difference between the Herb Garden and the Plantation is a bit too much with more than one and a half Tier. The Plantation should be not as much behind, especially since it has two 2 star production items and therefore is flexible with it's production, whereas the other two only have one 2 star production item. Granted both are great and therefore their high placement is deserved, but the Plantation can do most of these (early food, luxury items, ranch synergy, ...) except produce something that can be turned into flour. Which is a thing that would put the Plantation back compared to the other two, but is still not enough to make it score that low. So it should go up quite a few placings to be higher in the B-Tier.
Toolshop = absolutely useless = B Tier.... That is all I needed to know to rate this tier list 😂 Not to mention Beavers have chance to double production of tools when working as a Carpenter. Toolshop should have it's own U = useless tier. Also Workshop S+ tier. There is no better building in the game.
Missing timestamps
42:27 Cookhouse
59:40 Granary
1:01:14 Greenhouse
1:04:26 Guild House
1:07:11 Herb Garden
1:08:37 Kiln
1:13:17 Leatherworker
1:16:57 Lumber Mill
1:19:39 Manufactory
1:22:11 Market
1:24:13 Monastery
1:26:57 Plantation
1:29:39 Press
1:31:31 Provisioner
1:33:07 Rain Mill
1:36:00 Ranch
1:38:23 Scribe
1:41:25 Small Farm
1:44:51 Smelter
1:47:43 Smithy
1:49:44 Smokehouse
1:52:15 Stamping Mill
1:54:10 Supplier
1:55:36 Tavern
1:56:55 Tea Doctor
1:59:08 Teahouse
2:01:24 Temple
2:03:06 Tinctuary
2:05:17 Tinkerer
2:07:37 Toolshop
2:09:44 Grill
2:11:13 Weaver
2:12:06 Workshop
This is one of the most useful videos on Against the Storm out there. The logic/explanation that you share for each building is actually more valuable than the ranking itself, because it gives some perspective when evaluating buildings. I don't know if you're still as heavily invested into the game, but I'd really appreciate if you did an updated version of this video now that we're into the 1.0 release of the game. It doesn't need to be that long and detailed, maybe only focus on the changes that have happened up to and including the release version? Anyway - great work and you've earned a sub here!
I 100% agree with this comment. Been waiting for the 1.0 release and loving the game but man is there a lot to juggle in your head. Would love to know what changed since this video was uploaded. At the moment when I play I pop up this tier list on my other monitor as a reference guide if the choice is not obvious for my needs.
Totally agree. I kind of already agreed with all these rankings, maybe I was underrating the ranch and the carpenter, but more than anything I was not thinking about how the complex food items satisfied different species' resolve/needs. I was just baking biscuits and pies in every run. I didn't understand how strong pickled goods and porridge are
It's worth noting there have been some changes since this video came out,, just quickly the smithy and the smelter have different recipes in the 2nd slot. there's probably other differences as well
I really enjoyed this vid. I actually learned quite a bit. It's ever so slightly out of date(Brickyard and Temple got reworked, Guild House got slightly nerfed), but most of the considerations in this vid are still valid today. The big things I learned was that I really have been overprioritizing clothes a lot (I really should just be buying those in most games, they take soooo agonizingly long to make), and I've been massively undervaluing the makeshift post and by extension, massively overvaluing the provisioner and manufactory (I've been suspecting this was the case for awhile, but I really appreciate the confirmation).
I think the Plantation is much closer in viability to the herb garden than you're giving it credit for (though I agree both are worse than Small Farm). Berries and herbs really do a lot of the same stuff, and what they have in common is way more important than what they do different. You definitely want one over the other, and given the choice between herb garden and plantation, herb garden is generally preferred, but I'd take plantation over no farm on almost any run, and even if I already have the small farm I might still pick up a plantation if offered because having an efficient way to make provision materials is just that nice, which is the one thing you can't really do with a small farm. There is no need to run plantation alongside herb garden though, waaay too much overlap.
I do think the service buildings are much closer together in viability than you're giving them credit for. The main draw of service buildings is the resolve bonus you get from allowing your villagers to consume luxury goods. A +8 resolve bonus to a race is massive and can turn a stable game state into a winning game state pretty easily, and for this reason the actual effect of the service building is quite frankly secondary to just making sure the services match up well with my 3 races. For this same reason, the double service buildings are waaay better than single service buildings. A double service building will hit at least 2 if not all three of your races, and may allow for one of your races to double dip for an utterly insane +16 resolve bonus. With the proper setup, this effect is gamewinning on its own and any other effects are kinda just a cherry on top. Likewise, single service buildings are just kinda worse by default unless they come with an utterly *busted* effect, and the only one that gets close to that level of busted is the Guild House imo, and I still don't rate that super highly due to reasons I'll go into below.
The other thing to consider with service buildings is that they're pretty expensive. Most buildings require 10 or fewer planks and/or 5 or fewer bricks/fabric. It is not uncommon for service buildings to require 20+ of a given building material, with guild house requiring a jaw dropping 40 planks. Even if the passive effect is strong, you're slowing yourself down quite a lot trying to place one down, so you better have some luxury goods to consume when you do so even if you have to buy them off a trader (indeed, buying a stack of luxury goods for my newly completed service building is a pretty common way for me to close out games).
For this reason, I rate all the double service buildings in high B tier - low A tier, they're all pretty setup dependent and I will almost always prioritize the service building I have the better setup for over how good I think the effect is, because I value the service resolve bonus just that highly. Likewise I value all the single service buildings at around mid C tier, with the Guild House being closer to high C tier just due to the raw strength of its scaling global resolve bonus.
And yes, if you're following along, this does mean I put Temple above Guild House. That's my hot take for this vid.
timestamps
Kiln 1:10:40
Leatherworker 1:13:21
Plantation 1:26:58
Press 1:29:54
Provisioner 1:31:43
Ranch 1:36:41
Smelter 1:45:00
Scribe 1:38:25
There are 2 reasons to convert items into other items of the same or even lower value:
1) Items needed for glade events (like wood -> coal)
2) Traders always buy trade goods (like planks -> boxes of building materials) while not always buying materials they are made of
Subbed. This vid. is a masterpiece. surprises me it does not have more views. Please consider more of this, updated shorter versions, or the like. What you mastered here is efficiency, which is crucial for a mountain of knowledge like this and for the entertainment factor. Your explanations have the perfect length and depth. not too long or too short.
It's outdated now, unfortunately. Many of these recipes have changed ;_;
The point where the Herb garden becomes just unhinged is the biscuits boost. Getting +1 boosts every 75 biscuits produced is damn strong, and the Herb garden alone can output the farm at some point even considering (+50% production make it even stronger if you get your hand on the cornerstone, as it multiplies the bonus too) and just snowball with the biscuits it's used to produce, making them and pies an easy job along stuff for provisions, culture bags, beer and other stuff herbs are involved in. Neat.
I'm level 9 and play on Veteran difficulty, and in my games, I'd say the Forester's Hut is S tier, possibly even the best building in the game. Why? Because a lot of the game is about getting access to tools, and that means either the copper way or the crystalized dew way. The copper way means finding a source of copper (some maps don't have this) and getting a blueprint to make copper bars. And sources of copper are often limited in how much copper they provide, and the mine is really slow at producing copper. Meanwhile, if you get the Forester's Hut, as long as you have one patch of fertile soil (and the human ability is to reveal the closest one at the beginning of the game), you have unlimited tools easily, and you don't need an extra blueprint, the scarcest resource in the game. And if you overproduce tools, you can produce barrels, or use the sap for incense, or just repurpose the fertile soil with another building. As such the Forester's Hut is very useful throughout the game.
Agreed. In Prestige 10 currently and still getting bang for my buck with a beaver/fox forester hut synergy.
Metallurgic Proficiency stacks with it too, which is nuts.
I'm still progressing through the game myself. Currently at level 12, playing on viceroy difficulty, and I think you may be overvaluing tools.
The majority of the rep I gain comes from Resolve and Orders. Hardly ever do I send caches to the Queen, nor I do feel a need to. Mainly because caches requires so many tools, which are a pain in the ass to come by, and often because I'd rather have the resources from the caches. I've also sold tools to traders in order to buy resources I need for a glade event or a perk/cornerstone I really want.
Therefor, I'd rather say that a lot of the game is about increasing Resolve and fulfilling Orders.
Tools are a nice bonus, but hardly critical.
Aggree, but also depends.
I have done runs where I rarely craft tools, I just buy them from the markerts and produce a ton of Money to buy.
My current strategy is farming and trading for everything else lol idk how good it is in late game tho.
@@Lngo2624 In late game you need to be more goal specific in your actions.
Since reputation is what you need to win, and some debuffs are just insane
Being slightly past mid way in the citadel upgrades, I’m really grateful I’ve stumbled on your video. It really helps cement lots of thing I’m already doing on Viceroy difficulty.
Notably, I always took carpenter or lumbermill no matter what else is there. Bricks and fabric are ok with the crude workshop (on my current difficulty) but oh boy do you need planks. I also don’t need service buildings to win so far, only a mixture of orders, rep through resolve and a few caches opening towards the end, but at least I need what to look for now.
I did a lot of silly deed challenge hunts, so I know how important fighting hostility can be, so I tend to focus on anything that reduces it OR rush the victory ASAP.
With my limited experience, your list sounds very accurate, but I guess I need to try the leatherworker (and fabric buildings in general) a bit more…
great video. You have a real skill in explaining these concepts and have presented the information in an easily understandable and entertaining way! not everyone can pull that off!
I don't think Clay Pit needs a buff. The point of inefficient buildings (Crude Workststion, Field Kitchen) is that having an access to a recipe is infinitely better than not having it.
Exactly. This game is a love letter to the concept of "technical debt"
The Clay Pit is also the only way to source clay outside of finding clay nodes. On maps where clay/stone nodes are in short supply, or where reeds could play well into your production chain, it can be an invaluable building. Pair it with a greenhouse and you have consistent production of almost every base-type resource. The caveat being access to a nearby clearance water geyser really makes this building worth it (still viable/useful without one, but these become very valuable with one).
It also allows for 2 workers per building, which can translate to 6, or even 8 workers producing clay/reeds where large fields exist, which is a very efficient use of fields.
@@justindcook9 You can get clay from copper mines, reed nodes, and flax nodes, and you can find one or multiple of those on every map, so you can always get clay. You can also get it from the clay delivery line, or you can just buy it. Alternatively you can use stone for almost anything that uses clay except pottery, and pottery can be replaced with any other container type. There's never a world where you need clay.
Reeds are definitely more versatile but generally still not as versatile as anything else you can put on fertile soil that requires less input. It can't become any kind of food, most notably.
Nice job working thru all the buildings. Now my input for the discussion that you asked for:
If I were to offer some constructive criticism, I would have liked to see you factor in the blueprint building footprint size more in your deliberations and talk about its affect on building production. The 2x2 building footprints are the most desirable size because they allow you to fit them into your settlement easier. Every building loses production time when its workers go out for delivery, resource acquisition, or break. Large buildings have to be pathed around and take up more of the prime real estate between the hearth and the warehouse. You always want to situate your production between the hearth and warehouse so you minimize the amount of production time lost in villager pathing. Also the number of workers that can work in a building is important for the same reason. You touched on how buildings with more workers get a more efficient return from the rain engine installed in it, but I didn't hear you talk about how having more workers effectively "decreases their footprint". For example rather than having 2 of one building to meet a demand you may be able to meet it with one building that can utilize more workers.
As far as where I would differ in my own picks to your tier list it is difficult to comment in a comprehensive way because of all of the factors and information involved and I think that maybe I haven't considered everything either. I will highlight the ones that stick out to me. First is the druid hut. Its a nifty 2x2 footprint 3 worker building which is great for the reasons mentioned above that has the best oil recipe in the game which you touched on. I concur that its other recipes are kind of trash, but because of what oil is I don't think that really matters. Oil is a fuel so it is always useful in any villager loadout for standard hearth fueling (never not relevant). Oil can also be sacrificed at the hearth for a global production speed bonus which is huge. You mention that you value planks as building materials because they are used in everything. using oil for burning can free up that wood needed for planks and can be used as a substitute for all the recipes where fuel is consumed. On top of that it can fill in as a trade good for the pack of trade goods recipe and be used to craft the water skin container. Utilizing oil in all its functions has single handedly "upped my game" so to speak so I think druid hut needs to be above C tier. At least it should be higher than the press which doesn't get a production bonus from any race and has a larger footprint. Brick oven is in a lesser but similar vein for me given that pie is one of the best foods in the game and has its own cornerstone that elevates it to godlike. The cookbook cornerstone adds a jerky for every pie made which immediately fulfills two needs for both lizards and harpies. Kind of like the skewers/pickled goods one for the fox/lizard combo (side note, maybe lizards are better than I thought). Just in terms of making the pie, the brick oven outshines the bakery in recipe, in footprint, and in worker amount. If I need biscuits or pottery, like you said its better if I look to the apothecary and stamping mills or brickyard. The next one that sticks out is the greenhouse. The building provides all the food elements necessary for porridge ,pie, biscuits, pickled goods and half of skewers all on its own. You can also turn it into wine, tea, and pack of crops. Mushrooms are so versatile that its hard for me to see the greenhouse in C tier. I won't die on that hill because of the drizzle water requirement, but I would bump it up. Last but not least is the temple. Its effect seems like it may be at odds with the desire to not have to sacrifice fuel, but if you invest more into fuel like oil and coal then you can start to think of the fuel sacrifice mechanic as a way to raise resolve rather than just to keep people from leaving in a storm. I will get the temple midgame and burn oil made from the druid hut or press around the clock for production speed and more readily burn my wood and coal to reduce the hostility for more resolve. The temple effect can really close out the game once you have good fuel generation. At the victory screen it doesn't matter if you had one log left or thousands in reserve.
Oil was my way to success in the sealed forests so I agree on value. It can effectively be infinitely produced with farms while minimizing tree cutting to avoid stacking up too much hostility outside of just pathing from clearing to clearing. On top of being super useful for general events *and* having good synergy with flour production (with some cornerstones really making it easier to get)
3 star oil is produced with such speed and abudance, it felt like 2 presses/druids dedicated to oil would allow me to have tier 3 oil sacrifices around the clock.
Listen bro, I take serious issue with your slander of the advanced rain collector. You may think it's not worthwhile but that graceful gazelle has saved me from more than one sticky situation. Like let's say we're in a situation where you need some rain... possibly to be collected... who does it better than the advanced rain collector? no one, bro no one!
Just in case it wasn't clear that was all sarcasm, great video!
Great video! I learnt a lot about the game watching this.
About your question in the end, I'd rank them 1) How to play in different biomes 2) Which to unlock first 3) Synergies between species.
The amount of effort spent to make this video is insane.
Thanks for your video, just watching this one has improved my game. I have not yet been playing a week and this video has been so useful.
S Tier Buildings
----------------
- Small Farm
- Carpenter
- Furnace
- Lumber Mill
- Weaver
- Beanery
- Monastery
A Tier Buildings
----------------
- Herb Garden
- Supplier
- Granary
- Butcher
- Leatherworker
- Forum
- Tea Doctor
- Workshop
- Apothecary
- Brickyard
- Rain Mill
- Smithy
- Clan Hall
B Tier Buildings
----------------
- Kiln
- Tinkerer
- Ranch
- Foresters Hut
- Bakery
- Tavern
- Smokehouse
- Stamping Mill
- Guild House
- Clothier
- Teahouse
- Explorers Lodge
- Toolshop
- Press
- Alchemists Hut
- Plantation
- Cookhouse
- Scribe
C Tier Buildings
----------------
- Provisioner
- Cooperage
- Grill
- Distillery
- Druids Hut
- Greenhouse
- Brick Oven
- Bath House
- Smelter
- Tinctury
- Brewery
- Manufactory
- Artisan
- Market
D Tier Buildings
----------------
- Advanced Rain Collector
- Cellar
- Temple
- Clay Pit
This is a great video! One note: The "chapters" in youtube seem to stop at the furnace.
I'd say that the greenhouse is at least A tier. If you get this early and has an access to fertile soil + geyser, it's an easy win. Next, you need to go for Provisioner (flour from mushrooms, provisions from herbs) and Bakery (biscuits + pie, both from flour and herbs) - and you are no longer dependant on opening glades for food, you're self-suficient. Next thing to get is some building to make Wine (from mushrooms that you have abundance) + carpenter - easy trade win.
Something he didn't consider that I think is worth mentioning is that greenhouse is consistent production vs. farming. You can put villagers in and pull them out as needed without worrying about "messing up the harvest" by missing a season. It also means that you can adjust what you're producing there instantly, as needed.
The second point about the greenhouses I like is that they fit in a section of 4 fields. It's not hard to fit 3 greenhouses onto a single farm field plot, either; that's 9 production slots all working on consistent output, all year round.
"If you get fertile soil and a specific type of geyser and these specific other blueprints, this building is A tier"
Well hell that applies to everything in the entire game.
As a new player that's about to start the Silver Seal with 8 Reserve Embarkation Points, I've gained some extremely valuable insight from this video and it will 100% help me with my Blueprint choices (I figured out a lot of the more basic stuff on my own, but never thought about the intricacies/values of mid-late game resources in depth and this does a lot of it for me)
Thank you!
I am a bit confused about the Coats point, as I valued them fairly much until now (depending on my races of course), but when at least 2 of them can use Coats, it feels like a nice and easy resolve. And at least for now, I tend to start generating a decent amount of Prestige through Resolve from mid game onwards. This probably will be harder in later difficulties?
Awesome, would love a cornerstone tier list next.
About the Bath house:
1. Producing faster leads to getting the stuff you need faster, which means you get resolve from those items faster, or more trade goods for when the trader arrives.
2. Not having workers for a new building is a problem, having unemployed workers because you are done with what you need, is not a problem at all.
The main problem is that it only provides one service, while almost all (if not all) other service buildings provides two.
Still, I think it is a Tier B building.
I’m often running out of end products, not because of a lack of raw resources, but because they just aren’t being produced fast enough. In general, the resource I run lowest on is people, so the bath house is a great buff, especially if you’ve got foxes and harpies.
(Given how often he mentioned that the coat recipe is bad purely because of how long it takes, I’m surprised he didn’t connect it with the bath house. Obviously buildings that stand on their own are an easier pick, but 1 cloth for ten coats is great resource economy, so a bath house makes that recipe even more viable while buffing all the other production buildings as well. If only it had more than one leisure).
@@bob8mybobbob Yea I hear people talking shit on worker speed because it produces too much down time, and I think what people are doing is trying to force a min/max solution when really they should be thinking in terms of ratios/time-tables closer to a game like Factorio. Where you take the increased worker speed to use the minimum amount of workers required to satisfy your end product needs, and then use those extra slots to assign extra workers elsewhere in your city, or to use that extra labour to scale up that production.
This is one of the big learning curves to get maximum value out of Rain Engines, you have to make the engines work for you, not you for the engine. What the extra speed out of the engines allows you to to do is fufill the same demand with less workers, if you crank up the speed and use max workers and then complain about idle-time, you are not incorporating a plan that extracts value out of your engines. I think this is where the controversy around worker speed arises. It becomes a more relevant issue with farms
@@followingtheroe1952 Figuring out those ratios seem considerably harder though, since you don't have reliable belts or bots to deliver materials in a timely and consistent fashion...
You'd need to factor in travel time, carry capacity, break times, any events or mysteries that impact production or travel somehow.
The game doesn't really provide any good data on output or consumption either... An up or down arrow to indicate whether you're gaining or losing a resource is not really much to go on. I don't even know what time frame it uses.
Frankly, sounds like a pain in the ass, but I get your point and will certainly take this into consideration going forward.
Seems like it's spreadsheet time!
If anyone has a good sheet on production, I'd love to see it.
Temple being d tier is no longer true, its basically S+ now atleast on tbe difficulty im playing. You can completely negate all hostility with it now, removing nearly all debuffs.
Highly disagree, the point where it becomes worth sacrificing for temple is very niche
When pushing for reputation, you're probably going to be at around 2-3 hostility, which means the top end of temple is 4-6 global resolve outside of storm
Oil burning is the only sacrifice that actually boosts your settlement's efficiency, if you burn wood it's like you have a bunch of people running on a treadmill in place
To support just 1 stack of oil burning you need probably 6-7 people at least for the ingredients, conversion and rainwater/blightrot handling, which means you're barely breaking even on labor with a 30 person settlement because of diminishing returns with other production speed bonuses
Temple does have its place when you get fuel perks, a good oil supply chain, and the building itself, it's just much less consistent than just monastery and has worse services provided versus tavern and explorer's lodge
I would put temple as a low B/high C tier
I actually find the Clay Pit to be very very good, if you also have a Ranch. With both of these it's basically unlimited food stuffs, especially Pickled Goods, as you can feed Reeds to every option in the Ranch.
Plantation and small farm both provide fuel for every Ranch output as well.
I think tier list is kinda useless in against the storm
Depending on Pillar/Playstyle/Bonuses/Races/Maps/What you found as ruins/PreviousBuildings you already chose, you create your own "needs" thus your own tier list
The thing with the Brewery that can "save it" is that it can fit in a mission that gives you the Tavern for havign a brewery and beer, so you have the producing building, the Taver which is just incredible, and a rep point along other ressources.
It’d be interesting to break building tier into early mid and late game. Like a table with tier on the left and game time on top with each building listed. I really don’t want camps if I’m in deep late game but I’m dying for them early on. Great video
Can u share the recipe excel?
Clay Pit with a clearance water geyser unlock so many things honestly. You don't have to worry about a source for bricks and textile, you have the basis for a decent stream of pottery for glades, food, trade packs and services, and can feed everything in the ranch with reeds, which unlock a lot of food basis it multiplies into, which then gives even more stuff related like complex food, oil, cheaper textile, provision bags... Putting it at the lowest position is overlooking the role it can play (especially in a lizard build). It really gets better with the ranch but it's already pretty good to me from the start. The building alone give you the basis for wine and gears if you can produce crystallized dew, or can directly mine rocks for the gears and for road upgrade if you got the perk, so that's pretty solid to me.
Clay pit is totally useless when you have a super easy to find cornerstone which give you 20 clay/20 reeds for every glade. Usually you get enough clays/stone in the map, or you can just buy it (super cheap). Trades routes/traders are your friend
First, amazing video, really cool to hear your inputs.
Could have been fun to make it with someone else and making it a discussion. They could have been the devil's advocate for some of those buildings^^
1. It would be helpful to include the game build / patch for which you are making the ranking since the game receives updates/balance changes quite frequently.
2. On first impression you seem to value buildings on their "draft" worth but then include Field Kitchen in the list which is confusing. I know you have to unlock it in the Citadel but it is still essential blueprint.
3. I disagree on Clay Pit. It is one building solution that fixes otherwise crippling Brick/Fabric problem that you could have in many biomes. It is also very steady and on demand production. Other than enabling all Brick/Fabric buildings it can enable all Ranch recipes and make Pottery/Crystalized Dew Buildings a very reliable path to take.
4. Advanced Rain Collector is situational but I would trade 6 Pipes for 5 Parts in almost every scenario so it is strictly better than standard Rain Collector in every way.
5. You most likely made this tier list before housing update but Pigment is essential for upgrading Harpy Houses. It also made Resin production even more important.
6. I think you overvalue Small Farm quite a bit. You also grade it on Embarkation value not "draft" value which is inconsistent in my opinion.
I'd say the best resorce in Mid Game is .. Amber
If u manage to keep queen bar low and make a shiton of Amber [80 amber making a lot of trade routes and having luck] you can just call the commerce guys instantly and buy recipes from them, if you re lucky you will get strat changing recipes.
Do not understimate the maket system as it is easy to exploit.
Also the biome is super important to ur strat if ur lucky there is certain biome-speficic traits that are BROKEN, like the ome that when u gather in Rain Weather, the nodes become fertile soil, oh boy thats funny to play!
Thanks for the video. Definitely was incredibly valuable for my future games.
Overall all a great list! Here are my main disagreements:
Forum - I believe you overvalue this effect. For 15% production bonus chance each worker is only providing a +5% chance each. That means you need to have a minimum of 20 other workers just to break even, not counting all other production bonuses from hearths and so on. This is not going to pay for itself until very late game compared to just using the workers directly.
Press/Druid's hut - I used to play a lot before the fox update so perhaps embarking with oil isn't justified anymore, but Press and Druid's hut are at least A tier if not S tier with the incredible 2 to 5 ratio. Oil can 1. be used in so many glade events still 2. Removes the need to use wood for fuel and woodcutters to chop it 3. can be turned into trade goods 4. can be sacrificed in the hearth which is massively powerful if you can sustain it 5. Allows you to go hard on rainpunk since you have the fuel necessary to burn cysts. Oil is amazing.
Leatherworker - I so rarely find myself having enough leather to get decent amounts of leatherskins but I might have been sleeping on this one. I'll consider drafting it more often.
Field Kitchen - I rarely use this at all due to the opportunity cost. The labor is usually better spent elsewhere, even just producing raw food is usually preferable. The food output from it is close to 1 to 1 for the ingredient input, so the benefit you're getting is mostly resolve. If you really need the resolve sure but otherwise not worth it imo, the possible exception being porridge since it turns inedibles into food. I value the 1 star food recipes a bit higher because of that as well.
Small Farm - I'm conflicted about this, I don't usually embark with the small farm but maybe I should. I would say that if you don't the value of all flour dependent recipes and buildings go down a lot. The path to producing biscuits for instance requires three individual buildings plus the herbs (or whatever else) to actually make the biscuits in the end and none of the first two stages are edible. It's very unreliable once you get to higher prestige and it's usually going to be late game before you're able to reliably produce it. Then again you can make porridge with it.
I think you're also undervaluing 1 star luxury goods recipes. For the early game these are great because they enable you to make 30 of whichever for glade events. Late game you'll typically have enough resources that you might not even need a more efficient recipe for it.
Really nice to see this in depth walkthrough. I find there to not be enough good content on Against the Storm on UA-cam.
great vid and very informative! did a lot change with the 1.0 version or is it still pretty much the same?
Great video!
I agree with most, except building with coats or tea. Most of my game turns out to win by pleasing Harpy/Fox. Therefore, having a coat building in a game with harpy is at least 1.5 reputation.
I just beat the gold seal and man the advanced rain collector would be insta garbo tier for me. And that was before making some good points that i was unaware about. ( aim still at only like prestige 5 or 6)
I've just started playing this game, and your guide/tierlist helped!
BEAN META
It's weird that I play on P20 and disagree with many of your picks. For instance I don't value Small Farm so highly because 1) you really need to get it early to take advantage of it 2) it requires fertile soil 3) you can't use grain for much without a secondary building or the inefficient field kitchen, so it doesn't solve your food problem in the early game 4) it only gets 2x from humans, which are IMO a mid-tier race and 5) it can't be piped to get 25% to 2x.
It might be that the game has been balanced since you released this video, but I find that the tier list is quite even, with most buildings being viable in different situations even on P20.
Omg, such super detailed analysis. Thank you so much. Its really make game more transparenter.
I'm missing a small, tiny thing; I reckon there is a significant difference in the optimal choice for buildings - biome, and situation aside: difficulty. The same building could even change tier both up or down with regards to viceroy, P10, or P20.
Love the video bro. What site are you using to reveal the pics. Cool format and way to reveal.
This is great! I just bought the game and I'm having so much fun with it.
is there any possibility for you to share this spreadsheet?
You could write a program that helps with draft. Having one recipe available would effect how valuable other buildings are
Hi, thanks for video, my thoughts on buildings. This will be long reply. I have 30-50 games played, couple games lost due to lack of game knowledge in early cycles, and rushing to finish games, because i thought when update comes cycle ends and Viceroy level games restart, glad it isn't the case. 1)Advanced rain engine, haven't ever used it, bots in rain engine is most powerful for me. I rarely worry about idle workers because i usually open 1-2 glides per year, 1 dangerous or forbidden in middle game, and couple first years only around 10 small glides without opening dangerous glade, dear messes early game sometimes, but greed is good. My problem usually is lack of food, or impatience increases too fast, and always not enough workers, even when more than 50 workers. When you have idle workers you can always build more buildings. 2) Bath house, on higher Viceroy levels where you get i think 30-50% faster people leaving, lowering it by 30% is good, there have been games where i lost 5-10 people in one storm, couple years in row, and lost that game. But i rarely pick service buildings in blueprints, because blueprints are scarce, and i don't want to waste them when i can get service buildings by opening dangerous glades. Mostly pick them when there is no needed resource, production building. 3) Provisioner, i am surprised you don't value provisions more, if you have food then you can trade it on trade routes, and get many gold to buy house blueprints or +1,+2 production, there was one game where i sold couple hundred gold worth of goods and couple times bought 80% of trader goods. 4) Smelter, i would put smelter in B because pipes are used in glade events, so you don't have to waste service resources, and especially when you have smithy, you can make tools also. What you mean by placing warehouse next to glade event, do you mean place it next to glade event you are going to open or place it after you open glade event, so you can deliver items from finished glade event? I have 70% of building choice like you, and 30% changed by 1 tier. Haven't played with couple buildings yet. Can you make couple videos specially for each biome, tier list? Maybe not right away, but year or 2 from now.
great video. Very helpful commentary
Great Video Mate. Only half way through yet, any chance you could share that spreadsheet?
Great video, thanks for sharing stuff. Very interesting for newbie like me.
Love the vids. Would love to see some 1.0 content.
So I got a Carpenter, Workshop, Granary, Weaver. ...On my first roll for my current settlement. It was a tough decision.
Hmm i would definietly rate guild house higher, especialy since its basically a tea doctor, Just uses diffrent resources.
I disagree on the greenhouse... if you have a drizzle geyser and a high pop of foxes, I usually make 2 or 3 greenhouses in just 1 fértiles soil patch, you can put extra ones as usually you'll have more than enough fertile soil for 3 or 4 and your foxes will have so much resolve...apart from that herbs work in most recipes for complex food like biscuit pie, mushroom makes flour...in some games greenhouse is all I need to set up my complex food chain, I'd definitely put it in the stier if a drizzle geyser is discovered
Provisioner building is one of my favs tbh. Im only Lv 12 in Citadel upgrades, so idk if better alternatives appear later, but as i see it just for making Provisions alone, 2 star, its the highest in game alongside Manufactory (which i never see at all btw!),lol.
Provisions are the driving force for Trading (unless im not understanding something???), so i rate this building S-tier .
As he mentioned in the video; Provisions can be made in the Makeshift Post, which is an essential building, and gained from certain Cornerstones.
I'd say this reduces the Provisioner building's value drastically, as the increased efficiency would not be as valuable as unlocking a whole new recipe.
@@wakko8005 in my experience, the bigger issue with 2 star provision buildings is that you can’t fully utilize them without already having a source of the input materials(which is food and competes with your villagers) and the other recipes are more situational.
Reliability is #1 in this game which is why I say carpenter is #1 and distillery #2
I’ve unlocked the beanery recently and I’d rate it competitively with the distillery but I’m on the fence about giving up luxury production. They’re both excellent buildings
As someone who's only played in the nerfed tea doctor era, I think it's a pretty weak effect
With a 30 villager settlement, eating complex food every 2 minutes by the start of year 6, that's a maximum 900 complex food eaten -> 4 resolve, if you have all 30 people eating complex food from their first break, which is obviously unrealistic and I would rate the passive lower than the tavern's; normally in my games I'm getting 2, maybe 3 resolve max from it
It takes not only a ton of complex food but also a ton of people and time for the tea doctor to really shine
I would like to hear your thoughts on the new temple passive with the reddit strat of burning oil, I feel like it's still fairly weak but at least has its niche than the "increased sacrifice time" passive you've discussed here, lol
Based on the timestamps clearly Furnace is the greatest building
super helpful, thanks :)
1,5 month later and the rebalance already made this tier list require an update. Two buildings got 3-star recipes instead of 2, like brickhouse (forgot the other one atm) and the temple got a HUGE buff compared to what it was. I just started playing, having 2 finished settlements besides the tutorial, and I think as long as you have some cornerstones that increase wood production, it is an A or even S-tier now.
totally agree with small farm is so good
will you be updating this list? or does the building tier are similar with the new patch?
I think to improve the advanced rain collector devs can just make maps/modifications that remove gaisers. I think they can make that the further you are from center the maps are just overall harder. Like less chance of finding soil/gaiser. That way you will value this hyper special builings.
For Clay pit I am not sure, itcan give stone , because stone is used to open stashes and make roads and thats will be at least something, but it will be the only building that gives 3 resources out of soil, which probably not whatvdevs want
I actually don't like Lumber Mill. Because if I'm ever offered Carpenter I'm 100% gonna take it - which significantly diminishes the value of Lumber Mill because I would rather have picked something else instead
I don't agree with small farm(map dependancy) 1st. I don't agree with D tier temple(though it is niche). Temple was a very good last pick building in a close game for burning your last storm and burning for victory points. When you're pretty much fully set up few things allow the same sort of push contribution.
catch the pigeon
remove fertile soil requirement OR rainwater requirement for claypit
just letting you know i watched all your videos; yeah watched you talk about ats for 8 hours zamn
I find myself using copper ore from the get-go for paths. The movement bonus is really nice and I typically can't use copper ore for anything else around that time, so I might as well. I've not had any regrets doing this yet but I'm still fairly early in the game.
haha, wonder how brickyard and especially temple fare now with its changes
The brick oven doesn’t provide value economically, but it does provide value with logistic efficiency. You can diversify your fuel sources and have buildings use something other than wood which lowers hostility and frees up additional workers. When every building needs wood to function, to build planks, tools, blight fuel, pottery, jerky, etc. it puts a huge strain on your wood supply. Instead, now a number of your buildings can use coal. Even if only the blight post uses coal that makes a really big difference.
Hold up.
The Brick Oven turns wood into coal, at a ratio of 5:1, so you're still draining your wood supply.
In fact, you're draining it even more, since most buildings would consume wood at the same or better ratio. Even burning wood in the hearth has a better ratio than that.
You do condense it though, so your other workers can essentially carry more fuel and spend less time fetching materials, but you still spend manpower fetching wood to the Brick Oven and of course to actually produce it, so I'm not sure how much of a gain it really is.
@@wakko8005yeah it's only really a gain if you have cornerstones that boost coal production. Otherwise it's an actual downgrade.
Very useful video , please share the excel file
How would you place Temple now that its been rebalanced?
how could you do the greenhouse over like this.
Would you be willing to share this spreadsheet?
Why do you wanna use jerkey to make skewers? isnt 3 jerkey more expensive than 4 raw food? Assuming you have a smokehouse and cookhouse, 3 jerkey costs about 1.5 raw meat and 1.7 wood, and 1 minute 45 sec. So you spend 1.45 minute and 1.7 wood to save 2.5 raw meat? Then there is the vegtables etc on top of that. Is skewers even remotly worth making instead of just keeping the jerkey at that point?
U have chance for duble the jerky production so it can be far more food save. I only make skewers from raw materials if i rly need the plus jerky or the fuel.
Jerky to Skewers is literally the best food doubling strategy in the game. You invest 5 meat and get 30 prepared food out of it. That is how good it is. 5 meat becomes 10 jerky and 10 jerky becomes 30 skewers. Does it need an explanation as to why this is incredible?
And that ratio is without double production ticks. With some good luck and decent doubling chances, you will get 60 prepared food out of 5 meat. All your food problems will go away. Even on lower tier recipes this is still extremely good.
Even if we use the field kitchen to make jerky, we use 8 meat to make 10 jerky, then we use a 2 star recipe to make skewers, we get 10 skewers for 3 jerky, so 8 meat becomes 33 skewers.
That multiplies your meat by 4,16 times. So, 60 meat from a few starting small nodes in your starting zone ends up being 250 meals!!, enough to feed people for like 4+ cycles at least.
In case you didn't know, everyone can eat skewers, not only those who get mood benefits from them, so feeding everyone with skewers is one of the best things to do, if you have the resources available to make them.
Where do you rank camp upgrades here?
Is this tier list valid after the 1.0 release?
I dont remeber when was the last time i watched 2 hours video. wow. im still rather newbie, lvl 11 playing second diffculty. tried veteran once, and it was my only looose sofar so now im scared to try it again. I just dont feel comfortable in this game, its like i still missing a lot of things. Like why embark point cost changes for example.
I think placing the Small Farm at first place S-Tier is a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I think the Small Farm is the best (and I love it so much) to choose between the three of Herb Garden and Plantation, but there are situations in the game where the Small Farm does nothing if you have it, since there are maps with no fertile soil.
This fact alone has to make other buildings better (in the placement of the Tier List) where there is just no mistake drafting them since they provide you something, if only a marginable benefit (like upgrading to the best plank producing building, since there is no map that doesn't give you wood). So therefore I think the Small Farm has to go down a few placements, somewhere between mid-S-Tier and low-S-Tier.
I also think the difference between the Herb Garden and the Plantation is a bit too much with more than one and a half Tier. The Plantation should be not as much behind, especially since it has two 2 star production items and therefore is flexible with it's production, whereas the other two only have one 2 star production item. Granted both are great and therefore their high placement is deserved, but the Plantation can do most of these (early food, luxury items, ranch synergy, ...) except produce something that can be turned into flour. Which is a thing that would put the Plantation back compared to the other two, but is still not enough to make it score that low. So it should go up quite a few placings to be higher in the B-Tier.
Screenshotting! 2:14:14
what does SPA mean? ty
Seconds per Amber
LegendofTotalWar? XD
Toolshop = absolutely useless = B Tier.... That is all I needed to know to rate this tier list 😂 Not to mention Beavers have chance to double production of tools when working as a Carpenter. Toolshop should have it's own U = useless tier. Also Workshop S+ tier. There is no better building in the game.