The Karli Morgenthau Problem
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Heyy....how y'all doin..... I accidentally took a 2 week hiatus but we're back babey and I got a steaming hot media analysis vid for you to apologize for the wait! Today we're deconstructing the weird political and ideological messaging in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It was something I (and a lot of you) picked up on the first watch-through, but it was only with episode six that it really sank in that oh, they're really gonna blame the whole thing on my girl Karli Morgenthau and the sexy Flag smashers :/ As happy as I was to see Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson again and uh. Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes I guess. I won't let myself be swept up in it u_u
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wasn't there a marvel villain whose whole shtick was universal healthcare? he was like "the pharaceutical companies are price gouging life-saving medicines, they deserve violent death" and iron man made a quip about investing in big pharma before beating the shit out of universal healthcare man.
omg wait really which villain was this 😭
@@cherrybepsi it looks like my last reply got removed bc i included a link :'( but the name of the villain is cardiac
omg wait i'm reading the wiki and this poor guy's brother died cuz of big pharma withholding a life saving drug 😭 i h8 marvel so much
@@cherrybepsi marvel is like trying to be woke with the kids but end up having the kids hating their guts :/
its the anti-revolutionary propaganda for me!
exactlyyyy
When your revolution is just terrorism. I do think people should be against it.
I think a lot of the villain-ization and justification in media often goes hand-in-hand with the very real fact that big business/the military ARE involved with so much in American media. We have buddy cop shows but the police system has been built on racial profiling and racism in general.
On the topic of the the "Well-Intentioned Extremist" aka the "evil villain but not too evil.... but too villainous to have a valid point" trope, while it might be a push to make characters more nuanced, it's also skewed so many views. As you pointed out Killmonger HAS a good point, but his actions, and the moral judgment of them, leads the viewers to see/say "well, I can see where he was going BUT-" which tends to align with the idea that oppressed people can ask for rights but politely, not violently. I think it's a really big failing on the writing, myself.
Is too evil too, they cross the line.
fatws was very much “come for the queerbaiting, stay for the discouraging social commentary.” but i think something super disappointing about Karli is that the franchise now can be like “well, we’ve addressed that problem, we can move on now” when the issues she and the flag smashers were trying to address (and also Sam’s conflicted feelings about taking on the mantle) are complex and should/could be unraveled in multiple installments. (like what is Sam scolding some senators on live tv gonna do for the long run? truly?) the way to shut down conversation is varied and woven throughout.
I think making noise about the fact that marvel's getting worse at hiding their centrist asses, status quo-upholding bootlicking is worthwhile. Like we're seeing them for what they are, and no, they don't get to collect progressive points for having "touched on this".
Right!! Same thing with Hydra infiltrating the US govt like hello? Bl0win SHIELD up did not get rid of the all the undercover hydra agents but they act like that problem is just solved now. It's like if y'all were not gonna address the problem adequately, don't try and make the villains more complex in the first place
yeah the way movies & shows portray this type of stuff absolutely informs how we respond to it in real life and vice versa && thanks for the links!
thank you for watching! 💗
It's a way to make a villain deep and they can attach a well Known quote like "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
I blame Magneto
so true but also the way that i would absolutely be team magneto if i was a mutant 😗
They keep copy and pasting his arc to the point its deliberately harmful to the causes they're fighting for
I've been seeing this issues in media for YEARS now. Especially when radical action is needed to make a radical change, they hero ends up protecting the status quo rather than doing anything about it.
Yeah it's honestly so insidious especially to put in children's movies 😬
@@cherrybepsi kids movies: "making change is bad :("
It's definitely a propaganda tool used to steer people's minds towards maintaining the status quo.
@@nuzhatnayeem1119 Well when the change is "Return things to how they were during the blip" then yeah, that change is bad.
agree w literally everything you said and Idk if I said this before under one of the episode commentaries but the way a large chunk of people (white/& in general MCU stans) did not hesitate to accept Walker, aka Decapitation America's, unearned, half assed, milquetoast "redemption arc" when he's literally *the* character to essentially commit an act of unabashed police brutality in this entire damn media series, was disgosting but in no way shocking because it just told me what I already knew about who watches this stuff for the most part. anyway hope ur having a good day queen.
Walker just getting to hang with the squad in the last episode made me sick like nobody in the writers room gives a single sh1t huh 😒 And youre right some of the fans are eating it up without a thought like get me out of here !
thank you
He never had a redemption arc cause he never needed to be redeemed. He killed a terrorist who tried to murder him. It's not like iron man's first action scene was him killing a bunch of terrorists.
I think it’s intentionally double sided as well. you see these villains as “maybe right, but too evil,” and then at the same time, right on top of the other, you see the Heroes as “maybe evil, but too right.” I think it reinforces desensitization towards/acceptance of US imperialism/military violence (for just one example). Like we (are supposed to) sympathize with these so-called Hero figures even when they “go too far,” and even when the so-called villain figures are “maybe right.” I’ve noticed an uptick in “”morally grey”” heroes at the same time as the proliferation of this well-meaning villain trope.
I really enjoyed this video, I was so uncomfortable watching this series because of everything you pointed out. Also, I looked it up and Karli is only 19 yet she had to die so Sam could make some half-assed speech about "coming together" and "not displacing thousands of people for little to no reason" as if that changed anything? It's so incredibly centrist it makes me wanna bash my head into a wall. You did a great job talking about this and I'm glad you made this since I didn't see anyone else really mentioning it
Thank you! And yeah my biggest issue with it is not only that they went so painfully centrist but that they also tried to paint it as if centrism and middle-of-the-road slacktivism actually achieves any change at all 😭 Like realistically, Sam's speech would have gotten a lot of media attention and maybe some humanity prizes or smth, but then those ambassadors would've turned right back around and voted against the interests of everyone except themselves
literally so true when she died i literally felt sick... i knew where the show was going but i felt so betrayed ESPECIALLY since they wrote walker into the ep to save that bus with those politicians in it and have him be buddy buddy with sam and bucky suddenly.... so weird so sick n twisted
No honestly it was so gross and the fact that they had Sharon (the bad guy) do it so that they get rid of the radical and the good guys don't suffer at all for it too...... weak :/ The John Walker part pissed me off the MOST like he just killed a man in broad daylight! Why are y'all acting all buddy buddy w him!!
Finally got around to watching the series. Really enjoyed and glad to see Cap is back and the Shield is in with Sam! Well said - I think she should have been spared to have a redemptive arc in a future series like Zemo did (sort of - though he did go back to jail). I did love Sam’s monologue at the end. Very powerful - he should’ve gotten an Emmy!
They tried their hardest to make her sympathetic, but she really wasn't and the actor sucked
I really agree, I was uncomfortable with her storyline because I could sense where it was going. The whole "Yeah, she's honestly right, but they shouldn't do it like THAT..." is a little too real, especially right now.
She wasn't right in the slightest. Her goal was to bring things back to how they were during the blip. Ya know? When half the human population disappeared. Which is psychotic.
And tearing down borders so eveyone can hold hands and sing around a camp fire. Cause she's an idiot.
This really reminds me of the Somali pirates, despite them defending their waters that are being plundered by outsiders, people complain about them killing non-Somali in their waters like they have every right to defend their nation. Palestinians have every right to defend themselves against the occupation, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. Marginalized people being villainized for using extreme methods during extreme circumstances....they are expected to just lay down and die?
Additionally, the end result of preventing these radical fictional characters from causing change/revolution is that nothing happens. The story is right back where it started. You jailed that person for violently opposing the billionaire for sending many people into poverty and ruin....now are you going to do anything about poverty and ruin that caused this escalation? No? That ain't your business spiderman? Then you just a cop without a badge.
Okay the last part!! MCU peter is so bland and boring which sucks bc he was like the closest to just being an actual person, and they really did just make him a cop with a badge! Interning for Ironman!
I hate how Peter risked everything for those random villains who just came out of nowhere, and didn't bother helping Vulture with his problem and just left him to get arrested. Hopefully if there are movies he goes back for Vulture, but lol I doubt it smh
Karli was the worst villain in the MCU. They even ruined Sam's character to make her look sympathetic but failed miserably.
Having villains raise legit issues, get put down, and then have the heroes do some half measure to address the issue is getting really tired. It's basically fan fic for centrists and a way for showrunners to feel like the made an impact....by mentioning a problem and then saying violence is bad...Civil disobedience and malicious compliance are my favorite strategies personally.
She didn't raise any legit issues. She burned down a building and orphaned a bunch of children.
Whoever this UA-camr is I love her😂
I understand that TFATWS didn't show much of the "ups" of the past 5 years after the snap. But I don't understand why people think that Karli's character has weak motivation. People think that just because there was no flashback about it, then it means that Karli's beautiful world for 5 years doesn't exist just because it opposes the dark and gloomy imagery of the world in End Game. BUT it only takes a little introspection to understand and imagine how the snap could be an opportunity to have a better life for many.
If suddenly half the population is gone, resources are suddenly in abundance. The current working system collapses and anyone who is oppressed by that system gets a reprieve. Borders are gone, countries work together, which means that someone suffering in a third-world country can go to a first-world country and try to start a better life there. No more nonsense paperwork to process, no more visa that needs random documents, payments and etc, only for the application to be denied after. No more of those bullcrap. SO it isn't hard to see things getting better for the unfortunate ones.
When the other half of the population comes back, it's a giant "The old oppressive system will now be reimplemented" sign for the ones whose lives are bettered after the snap. It meant being kicked out of their homes, being sent back to their home countries where they will have to suffer the old system again. Of course, there will be an uprising. There's logical reasoning for Karli to believe that she has to go so far just to be heard because the world doesn't have a good track record when it comes to listening to the oppressed.
The show is lacking in showing all this, but as someone who is partly disadvantaged by the currently running systems, it still makes sense to me... and probably to many others. And for other viewers not to see it, it just proves how much privilege they have and how blind they are to it.
Though, Karli dying just to "resolve" the debate without actually resolving it is BAD. And "Battlestar dying" being used as a tool to push John to the "dark side" is POOR writing.
literally!! I hate how much they villainized Karli and DELIBERATELY made her do evil things so that the audience couldn't sympathize her, even if they make literally no sense within the series. Karli blowing up that building was only there so that the audience would realize "oh she's too evil to be right" and stop rooting for her even though she's literally fighting against an oppressive system.
I also agree so much with your point about how privileged a lot of people are like... ugh. Just admit you have literally no experience with this kind of thing and move on.
There's no upside to half the population disappearing. The fact the world didn't collapse into total chaos is a goddamn miracle. And after BILLIONS of people suddenly reappeared on the planet, and the world governments were still able to keep things together. The flash smashers are idealistic morons who think tearing down every boder is not only reasonable but actually plausible.
She was a killer and a terrorist. While the world governments were busy helping billions of people find homes, jobs, and being brought home. The Flash Smashers were blowing up buildings.
@@izanblancoqureshy Yes, she did evil things. Cause she was an evil person.
Going to admit for a quick second I was confused as to why you'd bring in environmentalism specifically in the middle but I think you did a great job at talking about how race plays into issues like this too and I really appreciate how you tied it all together! It's definitely not talked about enough!
as soon as the TFATWS mentioned the extremely recent US intervention in chile to uphold a repressive right wing government, even from the mouth of the antagonists (i dont remember their names, the blond dude and his friend), i couldnt watch it anymore. US interventionism in latinamerica has become something that makes my blood feel like its boiling. and i cannot even try to enjoy a piece of media if they treat it like its okay, worse, if they treat it like a throwaway line, because chile is far away from the US homes, because you will never have to deal with the history of dictatorships and the trauma of violent repression and state terrorism the US so kindly supported and fanned in my country, in chile, in so many places.
i always knew karli morgenthau was going to die, probably at the hands of anyone but our heroes, just to keep them squeaky clean. i knew she would eat a kitten or blow up an orphanage or whatever just to make the audience gasp and realize she is very bad indeed. and now that you mention it, i feel like it does speak to a certain laziness of writers (something i feel is pretty normal but shouldnt tbh), to either make a villain have evil goals and evil methods or good goals but evil methods. never what actually happens: evil goals, "good" (as in lawful and respectable) methods. thats the villains that i find most interesting, and truly, the most frightening. they are real and they can convince a whole society that they are the good ones.
im sorry im so fucking pissed and this comment is so rambly and weird. i just found out bout the leaked powerpuff girls live action series pilot script 🙃 hope the length of this comment helps with the engagement tho. the video was wonderful as usual. and thank you for taking a moment to talk about the situation in palestine.
Yeah I caught that line about Chile in my first watch through too and I was like 😀 Oh so we're just joking about US backed miltary coups now.... And yeah I knew they would never let the flag smashers win but I didn't think they'd actually kill karli off :/ I should've expected it though
So true Mandeep! It's literally the worst trope ever
i loove marvel, but they really jam down the military propaganda haan. like I get it military schmilitary, I just wanna enjoy broken white boy and captain america sitting on a boat and staring into the sunset.
Hi, just discovered your channel and wanted to say that it’s amazing, you vocalized what I’ve been thing for a long time but had no one to talk about.
Cheers from Brazil
Fantastic video yet again, you always do a great job at looking at media & issues and I love hearing your thoughts 💛
thank you so much this is so sweet to read!! 💖
This is one of the most intelligent comment sections I've ever seen under a video about a movie or tv show. Please pat yourself on the back if youre reading this comment.
I knew this video was gonna be good the minute i saw the title and i was not wrong
omg 🤧💖
@@cherrybepsi thank you for saying what we were all thinking while watching this show 😌
Kinda off topic but I just need to say, as someone who is from the city of Osnabrück, Germany, the scene at like 2:21 absolutely killed me
I think the line about how killmonger turned into a caricature of everything racists say civil rights activists are is so important. these villains are coincidentally enough exactly what bigoted media paints activists, just portrayed on the big screen through the largest franchise in the world.
and I think the most upsetting thing is that just like in real life, people criticize and condemn activists who are too “radical” without providing an alternative solution. like what did sam or bucky in the show do to actually change all the awful things shown happening ? like sam’s speech was nice but it was just that... a speech.
like there is a serious conversation to be had as to why all of marvel’s recent villains are bastardized activists / revolutionaries... and also not white lmao
cause apparently the white characters john walker and wanda maximoff were able to be redeemed of *checks notes* brutally killing a man in broad daylight and voluntarily becoming a nazi whilst karli just _had_ to be killed. and during a resurgence of black lives matter too 😭 it’s blatant propaganda I can’t-
this probably reads off as soo scrambled, but this video is great
Ahhhhh this! I have so many thoughts on this issue it’s not even funny. Karli (and this whole show) pissed me off so much cuz it was heading in a promising direction at the third last episode and I thought it was gonna make karli the hero then it didn’t 😐. I’d add Amon/Noatak from legend of korra to the list of these types of villains too. Don’t get me wrong I LOVE amon but he just shouldn’t have been a villain. Leftist revolutionary villains are almost always a stupid excuse for centrist propaganda. Like yeah there’s no arguing that karli and more so killmonger did bad things but… those bad things they do are so out of place and were only there to allow them to label these characters as villains. It’s these characters who just go to that “oooh there so extreme and evil” thing and you can’t argue that they didn’t cause unnecessary violence but the fact they did so was just… totally random and shoehorned in to make them seem bad. The ONLY time I’ve seen a leftist revolutionary done well is with the expanse season 4-5. In the expanse, the reason hes a villain isn’t because he’s a leftist revolutionary, in fact most of the main characters are too, it’s the fact he’s a nihilist who’s manipulating the movement to cause unnecessary death and destruction for his own gain. Leftist revolutionary villains can exist and actually make really interesting villains, but when their “villainous” traits are their politics or their actions they just become caricatures of real life social and political movements and become thinly veiled propaganda.
ALSO!!!! Erin Kellyman basically plays the exact same character in Solo with Enfys Nest… they just don’t make Enfys a villain. The whole plot twist of that movie is that she’s a good guy. They don’t make her less extreme… she’s just an revolutionary. The difference is that in Solo her revolutionary spirit and actions are portrayed as good whereas FATWS portrays them as evil.
thanks for sharing your thoughts and critique, nice video :)
thank you for watching! 💖
great video! i really felt the point about how people in real life see these fictional depictions of radical politics (legend of korra is the other one that comes to mind) and how the mega corporation writing them made these groups 'go about things in the wrong way' and apply them to actual movements. also think theres ABSOLUTELY something to be said about the fact that when protagonists fighting against their oppressors are White, none of this criticism applies. like people love love love h*rry p*tter or the hunger games bc ultimately at the end of the day it doesnt make them challenge their own position in society like someone like Killmonger or Karli does
Karli didn't challenge anyone's position in society. She was a terrorist.
Nice video. The thing about liberals and their reaction to killmonger is that I notice with Karli morgenthau there is more frustration in their reactions in Media to how, when a villain has a good point or understandable goal, the writers make them do something however' while they may be saying these things in 2021, in 2018 when people were saying killmonger was right there was a wave of liberals and blue checks in media and pop culture sites saying killmonger was a misogynist because he fought black women back in 2018 that cynical form of identity politics worked on killmonger because we do believe black men are so uniquely misogynist. I think that will work EVERYTIME and as a black man, its frustrating to be so easily read that way.
omg this is SUCH a great video, i loved it!
and thanks so much for the links in the description!
Centrism yeah but more like reformism. Don't go too extreme, let's try to fix this inside the system. Not that the system is what hurt you in the first place. May be a few bad apples who misused the system are the cause of your grievance.
sitting here thinking about how the period of time i watched fatws was among the most confusing in my life. being happy about seeing sam and also week after week being bombarded with the most horrible political messages you can imagine. like what the fuck was that
society has progressed past the need for superhero movies/shows
What does that even mean?
if think about karli morgenthau and killmonger are the same because they both right but methods where wrong
They are not so well extremist. For selfish reasons.
Karli was not right.
She is the only villain close to my heart.
I think the writers deliberately chose to deprive Karli's character of proper depth. She goes from zero to terrorist in the same episode, but the show is written like we're supposed to sympathize.
The writers are idiots.
thank you for yet another amazing video 💛💛💛💛💛
Thank you for watching 🥺💖
@@cherrybepsi 💋💋💋💋💋
Solution: "Robin Hood" like reformer superheroes actively correcting social injustice. Well-Intentioned Extremist villains are problematic and criminologically unrealistic. Terrorist groups tend to act more for bonding with their kin and friends than for their often-vague causes. They tend to be a combination of "crusaders, criminals and crazies". They also prefer names such as "People's Revolutionary Vanguard/Front/Army," etc., rather than the" Flag-Smashers," which is an impractical way to desecrate a flag.
Thank you!
❤🖤
loved this video would love to see your review of the last episode and your overall thoughts
0:19 You sound like a "fan" because every fan know that's *NOT* how you pronounce Bucky's real name!
James Buckingham Barnes
1. It’s a joke
2. OK Miss racism herself Elizabeth Olsen icon