Great series! Even as a healthy 30-year old, it's very reassuring that VSED is an option in the future might I live in a place without legal assisted suicide.
This is why you make the decision yourself, when you still can, because if you don't your loved ones will be forced to make it for you. My father died of Alzheimer's, and my mother had to give the order to deny him hydration and nutrition. It is cruel to put that burden on a loving relative. It is cruel to make the patient continue in a life they didn't want to be that way. If I cannot be offered the same humane, painless death we afford a beloved pet, let me make my own choice while I am still competent.
Agreed, but if you live in a state that doesn't allow the humane and painless death you refer to, there's not much that can be done. As long as we let the religious make our policies this will never change.
My dad was terminal. He'd decided to stop eating and drinking. The doctors worked on my mother to get her to persuade him to get a feeding tube. *That* was inhumane.
Not sure how that's inhumane. I thought care facilities were to provide care rather than lack of care. Each case is unique but it strikes me as unreasonable to show up and say "I'm not well and it's your job to take care of me but not in the way you've been trained to do." Makes me think of the phrase "the inmates are running the asylum."
@@RemarkableSeanso if the staff in Victorian age performed labotomies and leeching according to how they were trained, it would be silly to intervene. 😂😂😂 your comment is so incredibly stupid to me.
@@effie3798 I'm confused. Care providers persuading patients to accept care is the business of providing care. I don't really know what you're suggesting. Sounds like you're suggesting that one should go to a care facility, refuse the care, and then say it was inhumane for the providers to even offer care.
@@RemarkableSean I find it interesting that you are using the word “care” and “business” all together in one statement. Hospitals are good at saving lives when they can, they are terrible at helping with suffering and ending life peaceful which an actual CARING facility would be able to do. America is backward with their inability to face death as an inevitable part of the human condition and because of this head in the sand stance, red tape keeps doctors committed to prolonging suffering.
@@RemarkableSean He didn't 'show up' anywhere. He was at home, wishing to spend his final days there. The doctors called my mother and tried to get him to go into the hospital to get the feeding tube because 'everyone gets one'. My father had decided what was the best way for him to die, we all supported him in that. He was getting no medical intervention whatsoever. We cared for him at home. They initiated contact. Anything any 'caregiver' thought was so inconsequential to us as to be laughable. You watch the person you love most in the world suffer the pain and indignity of a terminal illness and decide that taking away their last choice and call it 'the inmates running the asylum'. Perhaps the 'training' should be patient-centered as they're the ones who are dying.
My father died of stage 4 liver and bladder cancer. We were so unprepared and uneducated on the best way to support him. We only had three weeks after he was diagnosed until he was gone. We couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t give him an IV and also we kept trying to force him to eat. After he passed, I began to find videos from hospice nurses explaining just what Dr. Gregor is talking about. That it’s actually more humane and easier on the person dying if they aren’t taking in food and liquids. Forgive us dad we didn’t know :(
My father did this. His sister had been bedridden for over a decade, begging to die before she actually died. The experience traumatised him so much that both my parents had rules about not being taken to a hospital unless the problem is a clearly fixed one with short term measures. When they were forced to move in with me when he became too ill for them to manage on their own, he was paranoid that I'd hospitalised him (I'd had to rent a home in a hurry). A couple of months in, he begged me to kill him, and I told him I wished I could, but I don't think I can, the doctors will refuse (not legal here), and if I went to prison, who'd care for my mother and son? This went on for a few months. He tried asking the doctor who got angry with him. Eventually, he started refusing food and water. My mother and I knew what was going on - we'd seen it coming and honestly, it was the right choice, but not one we could suggest - it had to come from him. The woman hired to care for him didn't know and managed to persuade him to eat on and off, but nowhere close to enough, obviously. If he could eat that much, he'd be alive. Rather than argue with her, he ate the occasional spoonful to avoid distressing her and pretended he was too ill to eat more. He persisted and eventually passed away in his sleep. I sometimes regret not suggesting it straight off. I'd thought of it. My mother had thought of it. He'd thought of it. It took us a while for him to insist and for us accept that it was kinder. I suppose it helped he'd become frail and lost his appetite anyway, because I don't know what we'd have done if we had to withold food/water and he begged for it. My mother saw all this from up close and she's repeatedly affirmed that this is her choice as well. Honestly, it is what I'd want too. There comes a point when life isn't living, merely suffering. There's no point to it. This is the first time I've seen someone talk about it openly.
What an important topic - both of these videos! THANK YOU for this information - both my spouse and I are clear about what we want, and we know that it is only right that we can choose our time of death.
If experts agree food is a “necessity”, then experts should also agree that starving children should be illegal in all states. Poor kids deserve 3 meals a day Edit: yes I realize this is off topic, but the thought struck me at the 2 min mark. I hate hypocrites
My mother-in-law died of colon cancer after fighting for years. In the last 6 months, her situation got worse and we took care of her. Nobody told us about the VSED option, doctors just pushed us to feed her with high protein to sustain the muscles. We provided her with healthiest food we could provide and strong pain killers. I hope others consider VSED as they are sound and healthy.
This is a really important topic. Would hospice teams be on board if the patient made a request for help and comfort care while withholding food and water?
Very difficult circumstances to provide for. I like the historical way the Inuit handled this. Grandma or Grandpa simply stayed behind out in the snow, while their younger relatives left for the next hunting ground. Death from hypothermia I guess?
Finally DrGreger found out about it too lol. Ive been doing prolonged dry fasts for over a year now... 9 days one time. Usually 4-5 days and i don't count 1-3 days.
My husband’s family did no food or drink with my MIL’s consent. She got extra meds too. I wasn’t able to go. Then I would call up, here moaning in the background. I asked if that was her moaning. He said she was just sighing in her sleep. She would say “ Drink, drink”. My husband said it became a family joke, because they were so uncomfortable . Like hahahaha, she wants a whiskey. I asked my husband if him and his siblings were doing mouthcare for his mom. He got uncomfortable. Said no. I am in healthcare. What that probably means is that my MIL only got mouth care to relieve the feeling of thirst when the nurses did it for her once a shift. Every 12 hours. The nurses probably thought that her family would look after her. They kept vigil, but didn’t do much mouth care, and she experienced unnecessary suffering from terrible thirst. If I had been there I would have made sure she was cared for by me. I definitely don’t want to go that way.
If someone wants to commit infanticide, that’s ok. Other animals commit infanticide…(I am not opposed to VSED or even equating it to infanticide, just pointing out that animal behaviour can’t justify human behaviour, unless we cherry pick animal behaviours we find agreeable)
@@pdblouin in nature, infanticide happens when the parents are under extreme stress/duress of some sort. We humans may not be able to figure out what that stressor is, but except for a few cases (animals with a strict hierarchy - lions for example when a new male becomes lead of the pride he kills old pride-leader's offspring), animals don't typically engage in infanticide unless there is an underlying threat(not enough food, predatory threat, etc). If one thinks about it,IMHO, our society puts a lot of underlying threat on a significant portion of our population. Look at families forced into homelessness because someone got sick, or lost their job, so they get behind in rent or mortgage payments. I think families do the best they can under a mean social order; after all "profit is paramount, who cares if a few (or many) children are undernourished-negatively impacting their development?"(what I imagine is thought processes of malignant heads of corporations and tyrannical governments).
This is interesting information for dry fasting, which I think is probably not a good idea for people to do. But it supports the reasons why people do it. Seems pretty dangerous to me.
@@spiritwardiariesnot drinking water can cause your skin to pre age. This much I know. I have done a 5 day dry fast just to see if I could. It was not fun. I got close to passing out on day five because I wasn't taking it easy and was working out and had a physical labor job I was working at the same time. Lost 60 pounds but most of that was water and some muscle loss too. Eventually I gained it all back. The trouble with fasting is the benefits are largely only occurring when you are on the fast. A big negative that's not talked about is how much bacteria you lose in these long fasts. I lost everything and tried to eat a high fiber diet and it was incredibly painful. I took probiotics and ate fermented foods and got a lot better.
I’m heartbroken for this. It feels wrong but also it doesn’t. What if I did do it years a go when I was really in a bad shape in my mind, i would’ve done it. But looking back now I’m glad I didn’t. How is this justified?
I think they are talking about people with terminal illnesses that way beyond hope for recovery, like cancers that have spread to every system of the body, although I can’t imagine being a part of doing this to someone who is asking for food and water. If someone asks for food and water, I’m giving it to them.
I did a five day dry fast once. Won't do that again but can definitely understand it from the perspective of someone who wasn't to die. If they want a little water i don't think thats a big deal, as long as they aren't eating anything they'll still die it will just take longer. Longest water fast I've heard lasted 30 days.
Please take care while watching these videos if this is a difficult topic for you.
Great series! Even as a healthy 30-year old, it's very reassuring that VSED is an option in the future might I live in a place without legal assisted suicide.
I love the slight tenderness in Dr. Gregor’s voice in addressing this topic. Bless him for his gentleness.
Appreciation for covering a sensative topic with empathy and sound science ✌️
This is why you make the decision yourself, when you still can, because if you don't your loved ones will be forced to make it for you. My father died of Alzheimer's, and my mother had to give the order to deny him hydration and nutrition. It is cruel to put that burden on a loving relative. It is cruel to make the patient continue in a life they didn't want to be that way. If I cannot be offered the same humane, painless death we afford a beloved pet, let me make my own choice while I am still competent.
Agreed, but if you live in a state that doesn't allow the humane and painless death you refer to, there's not much that can be done. As long as we let the religious make our policies this will never change.
My dad was terminal. He'd decided to stop eating and drinking. The doctors worked on my mother to get her to persuade him to get a feeding tube. *That* was inhumane.
Not sure how that's inhumane. I thought care facilities were to provide care rather than lack of care.
Each case is unique but it strikes me as unreasonable to show up and say "I'm not well and it's your job to take care of me but not in the way you've been trained to do." Makes me think of the phrase "the inmates are running the asylum."
@@RemarkableSeanso if the staff in Victorian age performed labotomies and leeching according to how they were trained, it would be silly to intervene. 😂😂😂 your comment is so incredibly stupid to me.
@@effie3798 I'm confused. Care providers persuading patients to accept care is the business of providing care. I don't really know what you're suggesting. Sounds like you're suggesting that one should go to a care facility, refuse the care, and then say it was inhumane for the providers to even offer care.
@@RemarkableSean I find it interesting that you are using the word “care” and “business” all together in one statement. Hospitals are good at saving lives when they can, they are terrible at helping with suffering and ending life peaceful which an actual CARING facility would be able to do. America is backward with their inability to face death as an inevitable part of the human condition and because of this head in the sand stance, red tape keeps doctors committed to prolonging suffering.
@@RemarkableSean He didn't 'show up' anywhere. He was at home, wishing to spend his final days there. The doctors called my mother and tried to get him to go into the hospital to get the feeding tube because 'everyone gets one'.
My father had decided what was the best way for him to die, we all supported him in that. He was getting no medical intervention whatsoever. We cared for him at home. They initiated contact. Anything any 'caregiver' thought was so inconsequential to us as to be laughable.
You watch the person you love most in the world suffer the pain and indignity of a terminal illness and decide that taking away their last choice and call it 'the inmates running the asylum'.
Perhaps the 'training' should be patient-centered as they're the ones who are dying.
My father died of stage 4 liver and bladder cancer. We were so unprepared and uneducated on the best way to support him. We only had three weeks after he was diagnosed until he was gone. We couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t give him an IV and also we kept trying to force him to eat. After he passed, I began to find videos from hospice nurses explaining just what Dr. Gregor is talking about. That it’s actually more humane and easier on the person dying if they aren’t taking in food and liquids. Forgive us dad we didn’t know :(
❤
@@lybiwinzenz2880 Aw thanks
Forgive yourself. Your dad would not want you hurting over what you did not know.
@@robynl9953 Thank you so much. You’re right.
Thanks Doc! I’ll try this out to see if it works!
My father did this. His sister had been bedridden for over a decade, begging to die before she actually died. The experience traumatised him so much that both my parents had rules about not being taken to a hospital unless the problem is a clearly fixed one with short term measures. When they were forced to move in with me when he became too ill for them to manage on their own, he was paranoid that I'd hospitalised him (I'd had to rent a home in a hurry). A couple of months in, he begged me to kill him, and I told him I wished I could, but I don't think I can, the doctors will refuse (not legal here), and if I went to prison, who'd care for my mother and son? This went on for a few months. He tried asking the doctor who got angry with him.
Eventually, he started refusing food and water. My mother and I knew what was going on - we'd seen it coming and honestly, it was the right choice, but not one we could suggest - it had to come from him. The woman hired to care for him didn't know and managed to persuade him to eat on and off, but nowhere close to enough, obviously. If he could eat that much, he'd be alive. Rather than argue with her, he ate the occasional spoonful to avoid distressing her and pretended he was too ill to eat more. He persisted and eventually passed away in his sleep. I sometimes regret not suggesting it straight off. I'd thought of it. My mother had thought of it. He'd thought of it. It took us a while for him to insist and for us accept that it was kinder. I suppose it helped he'd become frail and lost his appetite anyway, because I don't know what we'd have done if we had to withold food/water and he begged for it.
My mother saw all this from up close and she's repeatedly affirmed that this is her choice as well. Honestly, it is what I'd want too. There comes a point when life isn't living, merely suffering. There's no point to it.
This is the first time I've seen someone talk about it openly.
Thank you for this, Dr. Greger. You've done a beautiful job handling a weighty topic.
Damn. Life's hard!
maybe it is as the video says, the dying part that is the hardest.
@@sudd3660but it should be the choice of the one living to go on or give it up
What an important topic - both of these videos! THANK YOU for this information - both my spouse and I are clear about what we want, and we know that it is only right that we can choose our time of death.
Thank you
If experts agree food is a “necessity”, then experts should also agree that starving children should be illegal in all states. Poor kids deserve 3 meals a day
Edit: yes I realize this is off topic, but the thought struck me at the 2 min mark. I hate hypocrites
It is NOT Assisted Suicide. The law specifically states that. The correct terminology is “medical aid in dying”.
My mother-in-law died of colon cancer after fighting for years. In the last 6 months, her situation got worse and we took care of her. Nobody told us about the VSED option, doctors just pushed us to feed her with high protein to sustain the muscles. We provided her with healthiest food we could provide and strong pain killers. I hope others consider VSED as they are sound and healthy.
Dr. Greger can you share information on benefits of Hemp seeds
Very informative, I wondering the name of the speaker?
This is a really important topic. Would hospice teams be on board if the patient made a request for help and comfort care while withholding food and water?
My dad got no food or water in hospice. Just morphine.
I worry medical system too quick to get rid of patients at end of life type illnesses.
Very difficult circumstances to provide for. I like the historical way the Inuit handled this. Grandma or Grandpa simply stayed behind out in the snow, while their younger relatives left for the next hunting ground. Death from hypothermia I guess?
Pourrions nous avoir les sous-titres en français S.V.P ?
Finally DrGreger found out about it too lol.
Ive been doing prolonged dry fasts for over a year now...
9 days one time. Usually 4-5 days and i don't count 1-3 days.
My husband’s family did no food or drink with my MIL’s consent. She got extra meds too.
I wasn’t able to go.
Then I would call up, here moaning in the background. I asked if that was her moaning. He said she was just sighing in her sleep.
She would say “ Drink, drink”.
My husband said it became a family joke, because they were so uncomfortable . Like hahahaha, she wants a whiskey.
I asked my husband if him and his siblings were doing mouthcare for his mom.
He got uncomfortable. Said no.
I am in healthcare. What that probably means is that my MIL only got mouth care to relieve the feeling of thirst when the nurses did it for her once a shift. Every 12 hours.
The nurses probably thought that her family would look after her.
They kept vigil, but didn’t do much mouth care, and she experienced unnecessary suffering from terrible thirst.
If I had been there I would have made sure she was cared for by me.
I definitely don’t want to go that way.
The intentional stretching of words sounds very forced, and less natural.
If the patient doesn't want to eat when dying thats ok. Other animals hide and stop eating when they are dying.
If someone wants to commit infanticide, that’s ok. Other animals commit infanticide…(I am not opposed to VSED or even equating it to infanticide, just pointing out that animal behaviour can’t justify human behaviour, unless we cherry pick animal behaviours we find agreeable)
@@pdblouin in nature, infanticide happens when the parents are under extreme stress/duress of some sort. We humans may not be able to figure out what that stressor is, but except for a few cases (animals with a strict hierarchy - lions for example when a new male becomes lead of the pride he kills old pride-leader's offspring), animals don't typically engage in infanticide unless there is an underlying threat(not enough food, predatory threat, etc). If one thinks about it,IMHO, our society puts a lot of underlying threat on a significant portion of our population. Look at families forced into homelessness because someone got sick, or lost their job, so they get behind in rent or mortgage payments. I think families do the best they can under a mean social order; after all "profit is paramount, who cares if a few (or many) children are undernourished-negatively impacting their development?"(what I imagine is thought processes of malignant heads of corporations and tyrannical governments).
This is interesting information for dry fasting, which I think is probably not a good idea for people to do. But it supports the reasons why people do it. Seems pretty dangerous to me.
I have noticed that some who practice it a lot seem to accelerate aging, and they appear to think it is having the reverse effect on them😮
@@spiritwardiariesnot drinking water can cause your skin to pre age. This much I know. I have done a 5 day dry fast just to see if I could. It was not fun. I got close to passing out on day five because I wasn't taking it easy and was working out and had a physical labor job I was working at the same time. Lost 60 pounds but most of that was water and some muscle loss too. Eventually I gained it all back. The trouble with fasting is the benefits are largely only occurring when you are on the fast. A big negative that's not talked about is how much bacteria you lose in these long fasts. I lost everything and tried to eat a high fiber diet and it was incredibly painful. I took probiotics and ate fermented foods and got a lot better.
I’m heartbroken for this. It feels wrong but also it doesn’t. What if I did do it years a go when I was really in a bad shape in my mind, i would’ve done it. But looking back now I’m glad I didn’t. How is this justified?
I think they are talking about people with terminal illnesses that way beyond hope for recovery, like cancers that have spread to every system of the body, although I can’t imagine being a part of doing this to someone who is asking for food and water. If someone asks for food and water, I’m giving it to them.
How did you get better?
FIRST
This is how I am leaving soon
I’m confused how not eating or drinking at all is not miserable
Because of the hormones released when someone is starved. And it is about people with terminal illness.
i have done dry fasting, by that experience i can tell you it is quite a good way to go as far as i have taken it.
In cases referred to in Nazi Germany they died despite being fed vegetables???? How could they lose calories?
I did a five day dry fast once. Won't do that again but can definitely understand it from the perspective of someone who wasn't to die. If they want a little water i don't think thats a big deal, as long as they aren't eating anything they'll still die it will just take longer. Longest water fast I've heard lasted 30 days.
Jesus fasted for 40 days.
Jesus did not dry fast.
so dis guy 4 *MAID?*
anyone with compassion and knowledge usually is
@bratgirl1000
Assisted *endang?* guess u pro choice
One downside is you end up dead.
you'd think so. but apparently the downside is that you might not end up dead
@@jaska-jalmarixvi5757 True, you’re done for either way.
Why does this look like AI, this dude is uncanny valley af