If anybody is paying attention, these arguments that XYZ is dead, it is a bubble, it will never beat XYZ - have always existed. What we end up with is in fact a hybrid of all the ideas. Now we have more browsers than ever, more languages than ever, HTML, XML, JS, PHP, etc etc all happily co-exist when each one has their maximalists who say "one day we will all adopt my favourite tech" ----but it never happens. The eco-system just expands to hold all ideas, protocols.
Wow! Super cool interview. What a guy. Brendan Eich might have had one of the largest effects on the modern web stack by creating JavaScript. Intentionally or unintentionally AND/OR for the better or worse! But that is life and "it is what it is". Brendan's name will never be forgotten and it's fantastic that he is continuing to add value to the world with this new browser. ✌❤️🐸 Kek Be With You ✌❤️🐸
I know that the ICO was brutal and the majority of BAT was bought by a small amount of people. But I don't think there's any point dwelling on the past anymore. The distribution of tokens has changed dramatically since (and it has only been a week). Now there are ~3K holders of tokens, up from 190 one week ago. There are 3000 wallets with BAT right now. It took Bitcoin nearly 3 years to get that amount. BAT did it in 8 days. So, clearly people are buying and selling, and the distribution is widening. And if you compare to other tokens that are everywhere, the amount of token holders is less than BAT.
This was fascinating. Your show is great. Audio can improve a bit, but the content makes up for that until you have the resources to have a producer, mixer, external recorder etc. top notch show you have a subscriber in me!
9:27 The error in abandoning the semantic web made the Google empire possible, because with a machine readable web, everybody would have been able to read the links on web documents. 9:51 HTML5 doesn't look like a great design to me. Solely made for big browser codebases, leaving HTML5 documents hard to read for small clients and therefore preventing a lot of good services from coming into existence. 12:00 Share of the revenue for ads that I see? And then I'm even supposed to buy the advertised products I don't want or need? Go explain this idea to a paid newspaper ;-) 12:30 Then think more about Lanier and getting paid for contributions/comments that train the translator etc., but then again Google translator is a gratis service... 15:08 Sounds like Mr. Eich has no vision for the web. It would be great to have more interoperability between other protocols/formats/applications (think Gelernter), it's not just the browser + the web (except for business reasons and monopolies), and it's a horrible waste of time to have devs write a whole lot of ReST/JSON APIs just because their HTML output isn't XHTML and therefore un-deserializable and non-semantic. 17:34 Standard bodies probably don't come up with the best ideas all the time and the observation that it's a lot of work to bring back the HTML crap to a more XML compatible way and therefore didn't propagate fast enough isn't necessarily good evidence to support this claim, but think about what the businesses did in terms of standards: why are Android apps in Java, Apple apps in Swift and Microsoft apps in .NET? Only for wasting people's valuable lifetime to come up with Xamarin and Phonegap, having dependencies like Apple banning webapps from their store if the app doesn't contain more than a web view? In my opinion, that approach and most of the web is pretty broken. We're loosing a lot of content and potential every day. 21:05 Who cares, Google would make Analytics a first-party piece of software that needs to be integrated, which would send data back from there instead of hitting Google servers directly from the client. Sure, it's more difficult, but people are already putting in first-party Analytics into their pages. 29:12 There's probably no real solution to the problem, as it is a fundamental problem of networks. I hardly can't prevent advertisers to go to my house and put their flyers in. There could be end-to-end authenticated communication in a web of trust, but people could try to enter that with malicious intend or still some day I want to talk to an entity previously unknown to me, and that could deliver ads in one way or another. Regarding privacy and building profiles, there's things that can be done, but then again people are willingly logging in and identifying themselves or leave a data trail on some services regardless of other tracking mechanisms. 30:12 And Mr. Eich wonders, why? Everybody would always block all advertisement, as it is truly unwanted. The net allows people to search for stuff if they want it, and in times of industrial over-production, companies have to sell their products somehow, even if there's no or little actual demand, so they're trying with advertising to get uninformed impulse purchases. Advertisement only works to some extend for building brand recognition, but people don't care much about marketing ideas about how to position a brand either. Furthermore, advertisers would just ignore the ad tag and put their messages into other portions of the document. Authors only consider semantics if they get something out of it - what would advertisers get from using it? 32:09 But why should a web infrastructure developer care about the collapse of the ad market? It's what you get if you have an uncontrolled, decentralized network - resource providers have to decide for themselves what their business model is and how much ad tech they want to put into their sites, and if all of that fails and collapses, maybe there could be a social process leading to the end of gratis mentality and a change of business models to make the system work properly again. Don't waste time in fighting the symptoms, we need vision and action to cure the root cause. 34:04 How can you do that in a libre licensed browser? My ad matching policy could be "never show me any ads" or I could receive the tables, but have the client never show me any of them. 35:22 Well, IF I want to buy something, I could tell the advertisers in my browser or on a marketplace and get a reduced price because of doing so, but all other advertisers will feel left out and bring their traditional ad stuff into my browser anyway and regardless, so I probably can save some money but don't get an ad-free browser (or one with only relevant ads). How is that different from a pull approach for fining products of interest and buying at a place which doesn't advertise at all? A one-stop shop for products from a lot of vendors, like eBay, Amazon or Alibaba, and in order to improve it, run as a non-profit, leaving better margins for customers and vendors? 35:33 Blocker. Really? Not that there are already ad blockers, not that they work terribly well (cat and mouse game, ad-blocker-blocker, ad-blocker-blocker-blocker, etc.). 38:38 Why can one even have this discussion? The internet is supposed to create an ideal market, and it probably could be implemented in software in some form, so why do products need to be more expensive in order to spend the additional portion for marketing to get more of scarce attention than the product probably deserves, just for enabling ad exchanges, Browser vendors, Internet companies, SEO experts earning money via providing "services" in an inherently flawed model? 46:29 Why not ending up in the server? All ads delivered by a server are spam as they were not intentionally requested by the user. So why are they put there to begin with? Why should companies and advertisers have any right on my attention? Why isn't there a way to fund journalism and the hosting of content directly (maybe based on consumption) in an universal way?
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "I can remember when I started programming when I was 11 years old and it was so different back then"
Nice interview. Personally, I wish he would have used "Lua Script". It's basically Javascript but without the bad parts. But at least there's moonshine and starlight which are Lua implementations in JS.
Please see news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1894265. Lua in 1995 was quite different. Web is a harsh compatibility enforcer. The upside for JS is that we have avoided Py2/3 and Perl 5/6 splits.
I agree. In the future, if popular ICOs would limit people from investing more than, say 1000 ETH, that would give others a chance to buy. I believe one investor sent 45,000 ETH to buy BAT tokens worth $8 million dollars. GREEDY BASTARD. Now many people hate the BAT company because of these investors
Great insights - thank you
If anybody is paying attention, these arguments that XYZ is dead, it is a bubble, it will never beat XYZ - have always existed. What we end up with is in fact a hybrid of all the ideas. Now we have more browsers than ever, more languages than ever, HTML, XML, JS, PHP, etc etc all happily co-exist when each one has their maximalists who say "one day we will all adopt my favourite tech" ----but it never happens. The eco-system just expands to hold all ideas, protocols.
...really interesting chap - I shall be investing in BAT
Wow! Super cool interview. What a guy.
Brendan Eich might have had one of the largest effects on the modern web stack by creating JavaScript. Intentionally or unintentionally AND/OR for the better or worse!
But that is life and "it is what it is". Brendan's name will never be forgotten and it's fantastic that he is continuing to add value to the world with this new browser.
✌❤️🐸 Kek Be With You ✌❤️🐸
First 12 minutes took me through my child hood !!! LOL
I know that the ICO was brutal and the majority of BAT was bought by a small amount of people. But I don't think there's any point dwelling on the past anymore. The distribution of tokens has changed dramatically since (and it has only been a week). Now there are ~3K holders of tokens, up from 190 one week ago. There are 3000 wallets with BAT right now. It took Bitcoin nearly 3 years to get that amount. BAT did it in 8 days. So, clearly people are buying and selling, and the distribution is widening. And if you compare to other tokens that are everywhere, the amount of token holders is less than BAT.
Great interview
This was fascinating. Your show is great. Audio can improve a bit, but the content makes up for that until you have the resources to have a producer, mixer, external recorder etc. top notch show you have a subscriber in me!
9:27 The error in abandoning the semantic web made the Google empire possible, because with a machine readable web, everybody would have been able to read the links on web documents.
9:51 HTML5 doesn't look like a great design to me. Solely made for big browser codebases, leaving HTML5 documents hard to read for small clients and therefore preventing a lot of good services from coming into existence.
12:00 Share of the revenue for ads that I see? And then I'm even supposed to buy the advertised products I don't want or need? Go explain this idea to a paid newspaper ;-)
12:30 Then think more about Lanier and getting paid for contributions/comments that train the translator etc., but then again Google translator is a gratis service...
15:08 Sounds like Mr. Eich has no vision for the web. It would be great to have more interoperability between other protocols/formats/applications (think Gelernter), it's not just the browser + the web (except for business reasons and monopolies), and it's a horrible waste of time to have devs write a whole lot of ReST/JSON APIs just because their HTML output isn't XHTML and therefore un-deserializable and non-semantic.
17:34 Standard bodies probably don't come up with the best ideas all the time and the observation that it's a lot of work to bring back the HTML crap to a more XML compatible way and therefore didn't propagate fast enough isn't necessarily good evidence to support this claim, but think about what the businesses did in terms of standards: why are Android apps in Java, Apple apps in Swift and Microsoft apps in .NET? Only for wasting people's valuable lifetime to come up with Xamarin and Phonegap, having dependencies like Apple banning webapps from their store if the app doesn't contain more than a web view? In my opinion, that approach and most of the web is pretty broken. We're loosing a lot of content and potential every day.
21:05 Who cares, Google would make Analytics a first-party piece of software that needs to be integrated, which would send data back from there instead of hitting Google servers directly from the client. Sure, it's more difficult, but people are already putting in first-party Analytics into their pages.
29:12 There's probably no real solution to the problem, as it is a fundamental problem of networks. I hardly can't prevent advertisers to go to my house and put their flyers in. There could be end-to-end authenticated communication in a web of trust, but people could try to enter that with malicious intend or still some day I want to talk to an entity previously unknown to me, and that could deliver ads in one way or another. Regarding privacy and building profiles, there's things that can be done, but then again people are willingly logging in and identifying themselves or leave a data trail on some services regardless of other tracking mechanisms.
30:12 And Mr. Eich wonders, why? Everybody would always block all advertisement, as it is truly unwanted. The net allows people to search for stuff if they want it, and in times of industrial over-production, companies have to sell their products somehow, even if there's no or little actual demand, so they're trying with advertising to get uninformed impulse purchases. Advertisement only works to some extend for building brand recognition, but people don't care much about marketing ideas about how to position a brand either. Furthermore, advertisers would just ignore the ad tag and put their messages into other portions of the document. Authors only consider semantics if they get something out of it - what would advertisers get from using it?
32:09 But why should a web infrastructure developer care about the collapse of the ad market? It's what you get if you have an uncontrolled, decentralized network - resource providers have to decide for themselves what their business model is and how much ad tech they want to put into their sites, and if all of that fails and collapses, maybe there could be a social process leading to the end of gratis mentality and a change of business models to make the system work properly again. Don't waste time in fighting the symptoms, we need vision and action to cure the root cause.
34:04 How can you do that in a libre licensed browser? My ad matching policy could be "never show me any ads" or I could receive the tables, but have the client never show me any of them.
35:22 Well, IF I want to buy something, I could tell the advertisers in my browser or on a marketplace and get a reduced price because of doing so, but all other advertisers will feel left out and bring their traditional ad stuff into my browser anyway and regardless, so I probably can save some money but don't get an ad-free browser (or one with only relevant ads). How is that different from a pull approach for fining products of interest and buying at a place which doesn't advertise at all? A one-stop shop for products from a lot of vendors, like eBay, Amazon or Alibaba, and in order to improve it, run as a non-profit, leaving better margins for customers and vendors?
35:33 Blocker. Really? Not that there are already ad blockers, not that they work terribly well (cat and mouse game, ad-blocker-blocker, ad-blocker-blocker-blocker, etc.).
38:38 Why can one even have this discussion? The internet is supposed to create an ideal market, and it probably could be implemented in software in some form, so why do products need to be more expensive in order to spend the additional portion for marketing to get more of scarce attention than the product probably deserves, just for enabling ad exchanges, Browser vendors, Internet companies, SEO experts earning money via providing "services" in an inherently flawed model?
46:29 Why not ending up in the server? All ads delivered by a server are spam as they were not intentionally requested by the user. So why are they put there to begin with? Why should companies and advertisers have any right on my attention? Why isn't there a way to fund journalism and the hosting of content directly (maybe based on consumption) in an universal way?
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "I can remember when I started programming when I was 11 years old and it was so different back then"
@18:00 brave
Nice interview. Personally, I wish he would have used "Lua Script". It's basically Javascript but without the bad parts. But at least there's moonshine and starlight which are Lua implementations in JS.
Please see news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1894265. Lua in 1995 was quite different. Web is a harsh compatibility enforcer. The upside for JS is that we have avoided Py2/3 and Perl 5/6 splits.
just let me undweerstand what is the advantage of holding BAT? ifi i hold BAT and there are ads i get portion of the amount
ICO Was very disappointing, the majority of BAT is owed by only a small number of people. Never gave anyone else a chance.
I agree. In the future, if popular ICOs would limit people from investing more than, say 1000 ETH, that would give others a chance to buy. I believe one investor sent 45,000 ETH to buy BAT tokens worth $8 million dollars. GREEDY BASTARD. Now many people hate the BAT company because of these investors
and that is silly. I believe the majority "BAT holder" is the brave team for their dev and user pool.