Hi, It seems that you are still somewhat active in these comments. I have made a bill of materials from the original shematic and followed your replacements for the transistors and so on. I cant really wrap my head around where to connect the cutoff and emphasis potentiometers to, since emphasis is mentioned twice and frequency is not shown in the shematic. the link you shared below a similar question doesnt work anymore and i also cant find the R14 you mentioned for the cutoff in the shematic. Im really new to this and wont to use the filter for my guitar like a pedal. do you think it would run on 9 volts?
No, it doesn't use ICs. It faithfully follows the original Minimoog scheme that you can easily find on the web, using BC547C instead of TIS97. The only change is to achieve the +/-10V supply voltage (from +/-12V) via two 10V Zener diodes (together with 82R resistor for positive line and 120R for the negative)
@@albenfamily331 Dude, what you've done is great. Especially when you've matched the transistors my heart melted :-) Only the early production of Minimoog model D's had matched transistors which played a role in the legendary sound status. Only the first couple of hundred ones are like that. The R.A.Moog models and some of muSonics models. All the later ones sound a bit different for having unmatched transistors due to production cost-cutting. Also, the original design of the ladder filter in the Minimoog model D had a calculation error in the VCF amplifier and the filter was over-driven by mistake for about 10~15dB which was realized during production and since it sounded good, it was turned into a feature. Minimoogs even have a small bulb on the front panel labeled as overdrive. I own an R.A.Moog model D with serial 74 and a muSonics model D with serial 125. So you see, when you've matched the transistors you've done something great. :-) That's why your circuit calls to be over-driven :-) Watch the video in the link, it gives some info about this. ua-cam.com/video/sLx_x5Fuzp4/v-deo.html Also, the legendary sound was in part due to the VCA's quality of the parts of that era. People usually mistakenly think the oscillators are the reason but the reality is that it was the overdriven VCF, matched transistors and LowFi VCA. If you run a CD quality audio through the Minimoog VCA, without any filtering, it sounds bad, that's due to the low-quality parts in the VCA but it makes the synth sound amazing. That's also why it's sound is so difficult to replicate because all the modern components/parts have good quality and tranistors are not matched :-) The overdrive is usually done so that part is ok but the sound is never as dirty and beefy as the original thing.
The schematics doesnt show what to connect to what is referred to as nrs. 16, 5, 7and 6. Can you help me out here and tell me what you did with these connections? Thanx!
Why not touch transistors? They are not germanium ones they should not change HFe because of miserable temperature difference between fingers and room air. Am I missing something?
How many transistor you need to find the necessary matched pairs? Thinking of sourcing the vintage TIS transistors but don't know how many of them I would need.
For all the pairs. You do not need them all to be equal, but only couples must have a value within 2 mV. Higly recommended reading: musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?CATPARTNO=NONE&PROJARG=TRANSISTORMATCHER%2FTRANSISTORMATCHER.html&MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&SONGID=NONE&VPW=1339&VPH=612
albenfamily thanks, I know the mfos website. one last question, do you think it would be easier to build the minimoog filter or the 904a? considering I'm aiming at a perfect replicla like yours but with all original vintage components.
the same components found in the original schematic experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Filters%20Wahs%20and%20VCFs/Minimoog%20ladder%20VCF%202.gif with the exception of the transistors: BC 547C instead of TIS97 and 2N3904/06 instead of TIS92/93
question do i need ceramic capacitors or electrolytic capacitor for the ladder part of this filter? Edit: also did you make the music in the first half of the video?
also another question with the capacitors does the vdc value matter? like 0.068UF 250VDC after a quick google search i have relised that it really doesn't matter
Hi! I've digged a bit deeper into this... and did bought so called "ESR Meter" which also measures transistors. For my 3904 and 3906 pieces it shows identical B and Uf. All of them are from the same ribbon. Is it possible?
As hinted below, touching them causes them to heat up approaching your body temperature, which changes their parameters. If you wait long enough they will of course cool down again so it's not a permanent change, but if you're trying to match a whole lot of transistors, it gets pretty tedious if you need to wait five minutes after touching each one.
Ciao! Adoro il filtro, ma sono pessimo con le schematiche. Potresti aiutarmi con uno stile di lettura "breadboard"? Sto creando un noise box con diversi oscillatori e vorrei aggiungere un bel filtro come il tuo. Grazie mille
I transistor uguali servono a ottimizzare il tracking se usi il filtro come generatore sinusoidale. Il filtro "filtra" e risuona comunque anche se i transistor non sono selezionati. Se non vuoi divertirti a selezionarli tu, puoi utilizzare il progetto di Yves Usson che usa dei transistor arrays (CA3046) yusynth.net/Modular/index_en.html Oppure leggi l'eccellente articolo del compianto Ray Wilson musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&VPW=1467&VPH=714
sounds beautiful and it's a nice and clean build, congrats! 👌🏼
It’s beautiful!
Amp
I love the song at the start of the video so much.
Hi, It seems that you are still somewhat active in these comments. I have made a bill of materials from the original shematic and followed your replacements for the transistors and so on. I cant really wrap my head around where to connect the cutoff and emphasis potentiometers to, since emphasis is mentioned twice and frequency is not shown in the shematic. the link you shared below a similar question doesnt work anymore and i also cant find the R14 you mentioned for the cutoff in the shematic.
Im really new to this and wont to use the filter for my guitar like a pedal. do you think it would run on 9 volts?
Really clean board
To you have a tutorial for this ?
Sounds gorgeous
That was awesome! Thank you.
Wow you are super talented electronically and musically. Great job, Supreme sound!
How kind of you!
Is this based in the yusynth clone? Would you share this model schematics? Congratulations for this great copy!
No, it doesn't use ICs. It faithfully follows the original Minimoog scheme that you can easily find on the web, using BC547C instead of TIS97. The only change is to achieve the +/-10V supply voltage (from +/-12V) via two 10V Zener diodes (together with 82R resistor for positive line and 120R for the negative)
albenfamily you only need 1 zener diode for a symmetric psu.
Did you remember to over-load the emphasis circuit :-)
What do you mean exactly? I did only follow the original schematic. I'm not an engineer, I'm just an organist...
@@albenfamily331 Dude, what you've done is great. Especially when you've matched the transistors my heart melted :-) Only the early production of Minimoog model D's had matched transistors which played a role in the legendary sound status. Only the first couple of hundred ones are like that. The R.A.Moog models and some of muSonics models. All the later ones sound a bit different for having unmatched transistors due to production cost-cutting. Also, the original design of the ladder filter in the Minimoog model D had a calculation error in the VCF amplifier and the filter was over-driven by mistake for about 10~15dB which was realized during production and since it sounded good, it was turned into a feature. Minimoogs even have a small bulb on the front panel labeled as overdrive. I own an R.A.Moog model D with serial 74 and a muSonics model D with serial 125. So you see, when you've matched the transistors you've done something great. :-) That's why your circuit calls to be over-driven :-) Watch the video in the link, it gives some info about this.
ua-cam.com/video/sLx_x5Fuzp4/v-deo.html
Also, the legendary sound was in part due to the VCA's quality of the parts of that era. People usually mistakenly think the oscillators are the reason but the reality is that it was the overdriven VCF, matched transistors and LowFi VCA. If you run a CD quality audio through the Minimoog VCA, without any filtering, it sounds bad, that's due to the low-quality parts in the VCA but it makes the synth sound amazing. That's also why it's sound is so difficult to replicate because all the modern components/parts have good quality and tranistors are not matched :-) The overdrive is usually done so that part is ok but the sound is never as dirty and beefy as the original thing.
The schematics doesnt show what to connect to what is referred to as nrs. 16, 5, 7and 6. Can you help me out here and tell me what you did with these connections? Thanx!
indexxit.com/voltage-controlled-filter/agreeable-vcf-tech-werkstatt-workshop-voltage-controlled-filter-guitar-minimoogladdervcf/
R14 should be 50k antilog. For cutoff potentiometer 5 or 10k linear.
Why not touch transistors? They are not germanium ones they should not change HFe because of miserable temperature difference between fingers and room air. Am I missing something?
The parameter to be mesured is the Vbe (not the HFe), and it changes dramatically!
awesome!
Regular show intro
How many transistor you need to find the necessary matched pairs? Thinking of sourcing the vintage TIS transistors but don't know how many of them I would need.
25/30 are enough when they are from the same stock. I don't know about TIS obtained from different ages and sources (if you are able to find them!)
thanks! 25-30 for a matched pair or all of them?
For all the pairs. You do not need them all to be equal, but only couples must have a value within 2 mV.
Higly recommended reading: musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?CATPARTNO=NONE&PROJARG=TRANSISTORMATCHER%2FTRANSISTORMATCHER.html&MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&SONGID=NONE&VPW=1339&VPH=612
albenfamily thanks, I know the mfos website. one last question, do you think it would be easier to build the minimoog filter or the 904a? considering I'm aiming at a perfect replicla like yours but with all original vintage components.
Sorry, I actually don't know the 904a. Fare le cose per bene è sempre difficile!!!
great stuff, do you by any chance have a list of the components you used???
the same components found in the original schematic experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Filters%20Wahs%20and%20VCFs/Minimoog%20ladder%20VCF%202.gif
with the exception of the transistors: BC 547C instead of TIS97 and 2N3904/06 instead of TIS92/93
question do i need ceramic capacitors or electrolytic capacitor for the ladder part of this filter?
Edit: also did you make the music in the first half of the video?
Neither of them. Use polyester capacitors.
Yes I did. But it's a ridiculous music composed for a (ridiculous) theater performance!
oh ok thanks!
also another question with the capacitors does the vdc value matter? like 0.068UF 250VDC
after a quick google search i have relised that it really doesn't matter
Absolutely not. It's not a vacuum tube filter!😄50V it's more than enaugh (and cheaper too)
Neat! :D Thank you! :D
thank you!
are these linear or logarithmic pots?
cutoff=linear; emphasis=anti-log.
@@albenfamily331 on an app i created with a ladder filter in c++ i found linear didn't give me enough room in the lows
What if I touch transistor's leads by hands? Is it very critical? What are they "fear of"?
Touching the transistors changes dramatically the measured value. The same if the temperature around them is altered.
Hi!
I've digged a bit deeper into this... and did bought so called "ESR Meter" which also measures transistors.
For my 3904 and 3906 pieces it shows identical B and Uf. All of them are from the same ribbon. Is it possible?
Yes. Modern fabrication process allows that degree of precision.
As hinted below, touching them causes them to heat up approaching your body temperature, which changes their parameters. If you wait long enough they will of course cool down again so it's not a permanent change, but if you're trying to match a whole lot of transistors, it gets pretty tedious if you need to wait five minutes after touching each one.
Ciao!
Adoro il filtro, ma sono pessimo con le schematiche.
Potresti aiutarmi con uno stile di lettura "breadboard"?
Sto creando un noise box con diversi oscillatori e vorrei aggiungere un bel filtro come il tuo.
Grazie mille
here! yusynth.net/Modular/EN/MOOGVCF/index.html
Amp saketis
Ciao! mi sapresti spiegare come trovare i transistor uguali? vista la semplicità del progettino l'unica cosa che mi ferma è quello! grazie mille!!
I transistor uguali servono a ottimizzare il tracking se usi il filtro come generatore sinusoidale. Il filtro "filtra" e risuona comunque anche se i transistor non sono selezionati. Se non vuoi divertirti a selezionarli tu, puoi utilizzare il progetto di Yves Usson che usa dei transistor arrays (CA3046) yusynth.net/Modular/index_en.html
Oppure leggi l'eccellente articolo del compianto Ray Wilson musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&VPW=1467&VPH=714
su MFOS cerca Transistor Matching 101
IF you want to make it by yourself just go to InpliX page.