High Power Microwave Weapons
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- Don’t miss our newsletter! www.themerge.co/
Mike hosts Andy Lowery to dig deep into directed energy weapons-specifically high-power microwave (HPM) systems.
Andy is the CEO of Epirus, a venture-backed defense tech startup inverting the cost equation of drone defense and swarm protection.
We talk about the tech, how it affects electronics, and how Epirus’ flagship product-Leonidas-is designed with adaptability and scale in mind. Turns out that HPM systems share more in common with an F-35 radar and an EA-18 jammer than a kitchen appliance!
The Army is currently in a rapid buy-and-try phase of these counter-UAS (CUAS) systems and is sending them to the Middle East. The systems have a host of other applications, though-the Navy is experimenting with them to disable boat motors, and the Air Force is also interested.
This episode is a defense tech episode you don’t want to miss!
For those interested in #military #nationaldefense #warfare #nationalsecurity #defense #nationaldefense #tech #technology #defensetech #army #navy #airforce #drone #drones #swarm #HPM #DEW #microwave #directedenergy
Links
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• Mike Benitez (LinkedIn) / mike-benitez
• Andy Lowery (LinkedIn) / andylowery
• Epirus www.epirusinc.com
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Show Notes
(00:47) Intro
(01:36) Epirus
(02:11) the “prime problem”
(02:43) 3 disruptions in modern warfare
(07:07) asymmetric advantage and cost imposition
(09:57) inverting the equation
(11:40) $1 billion in weapons
(11:59) Congressional hearing
(12:32) microwaves
(14:53) name origins
(17:04) serial killer vs mass murderer
(17:46) Star Trek
(18:26) Leonidas
(18:46) wicked fast tech development
(19:42) speed of technology
(20:19) inventory investment
(20:29) needs vs requirements
(22:02) Andy’s 3 careers
(29:19) product vs services
(24:32) 80/20 business model
(25:08) Thor HPM
(25:25) old school HPM
(26:03) new way of HPM
(26:20) like the next-gen jammer
(27:06) like an AESA radar
(27:32) GaN-based AESA
(30:09) designed to adapt
(31:02) how HPM actually works
(34:07) like radar jamming techniques
(35:13) UA-cam video controversy
(35:58) copper tape vs HPM myth
(37:20) faraday cage concept
(38:41) copper tape studies
(40:10) a systems approach
(41:32) ballistic missile defense (BMD)
(41:57) Army IFPC program
(43:26) Army base defense charter
(43:50) SHORAD
(44:21) scenarios
(44:48) layers of SHORAD
(45:49) Anduril Industries
(46:12) layered defense problem
(46:41) GWOT killed SHORAD
(47:08) Syria and Jordan
(47:58) company culture
(49:33) government pain points
(49:59) export restrictions
(50:35) the “MRAP response” way
(51:26) 1990 policy blocker
(51:56) The FAA
(52:03) NOARD issue
(52:33) homeland defense issue
(53:45) pre-mortem
(54:43) team-of-teams approach
(56:43) the government’s budgeting problem
(58:55) boats!
(1:00:00) HPM vs other electronics
(1:02:18) airborne HPM?
(1:04:06) Epirus, the next few years
(1:06:04) factory and scale
(1:08:37) outro - Розваги
So I hate to put something so important as life and death through human violence in purely material terms but the reality is people need to remember not Sun Tzu but von Clausewitz. I remember during my whopping one semester of ROTC before I was unable to continue learning the MOSS-MOUSE acronym and being struck how all those letter stood for something important, but the E, "Economy of Force" seemed more important than the others. Turns out MOSS-MOUSE is based on von Clausewitz and what von Clausewitz wrote (aside from the famous "war is a continuation of politics by other means") was that the goal of any military strategy is economy of force, and all the other MOSS-MOUS letters (such as surprise and security) he wrote about were a means to that end. The reality is that to some degree every war is a war of attrition, especially in a post industrial world and victory or defeat is largely a function of the resources available to each side (which is a highly complex function of politics and geography) and how efficiently they apply those resources to wearing down the capabilities of the other side. There's a lot more to it than that because war really is a continuation of politics by other means but material victory or defeat is basically resources available multiplied by the efficiency factor and directed energy weapons are pretty efficient.
You don't know, what you don't know, until you realize you didn't know it. Prove this tech works and that the enemy can't counter it.
Makes complete sense to me, thanks for sharing
You know it’s level headed and rational when there’s so few likes 😂 my stupid funny posts get thousands of likes, any smart insightful comments that I actually have knowledge on get just a handful of likes, never more than 10.. that’s humans
@@616CC ditto. I get that on social media too, especially Reddit and here on YT. Sometimes i wonder if it's just teenagers and wo/man childs reading my factual comments.
Spot on.
Also yes it's true that Faraday caging the electronics provides a degree of resistance to electromagnetic attacks and there are ways to penetrate it but you may be un-surprised to learn it quickly turns into an arms race like anything else between EM attacks and EM defenses. A well designed defense will protect against even well designed EM attack but will both increase the cost of the drone and degrade its capabilities.
Also it's like stealth where it's highly sensitive to the geometry so you can't just slap some copper tape on a COTS drone and expect it to work against even a simple broad-band microwave attack.
All you do is copper mesh between the tower and the electronics!
Unless it's self-guided A.I., theres no way for you to contact your own drone/device. It may just be a remote monitor or jammer. It comes down to S/N : signal to noise ratio. Overpowering the airwaves/aether with EM freq/waves at proper freq and power density. All of this has been known for decades and is frequently used to improve comercial/military devices/tech.
Certainly is an Unending Arms Race, but a Populist version where you don't need the Winning Lottery ticket to play.
Are the Aristocrat Neo-Cons ever gonna be whizzed!
From my experience flying cell towers for audits and inspections, I can tell you that for sure you do not want to fly directly in front of any microwave dishes that might be on the tower 😫
Fried In-Flight
Great video. Our problem in the US is that our government has opened the door to many potential players who could deploy drones and other means to destroy our bases. Imagine. Bad actors launching drones at our bases. The B-2 fleet would be decimated.
well if there are on the ground yea, but drones arent flying above 100k ft any time soon.
but these systems wont be used on just drones. never were... considering whats already in place besides this... they are allowing the drones and wars to take place. and its so compartmentalism that they dont know its already capable.
but this deployable can reach areas that jam current long distance dew weapons.
i admire his effort to try and keep it harmless to humans... but he wont be in control of this while its in use. and i cant be sure these arrays arent being hacked for aome of these earth quakes or havanna syndrome.
tech deployed with little or no research on how these effects humans. its largely ignored or considered ok.
Wiuld younplace Sean Penn and Charlie Sheen in the "Bad Actor" regime?
My HPM can cooked burritos in less than half the time than listed on the microwaving directions. Thermador should really get into the DEW game.
“This is the way.” Great video. This innovation has always been our advantage.
Another excellent interview and discussion. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome...! Best heard/seen to date. I must admit - I get nervous hearing the topics and discussion points in this medium. You know who is listenting.., and getting so much smarter..
Who would have predicted that the Death Ray weapons programs everyone had in WW II would eventually be used to defend against drone sworms 😂
Really great guest, and incredible technology! This makes me feel really hopeful about our future capabilities. Another excellent episode guys! Thanks Mike and The Merge team!
❤❤
We need this right away. I love it!
Excellent interview.
appreciate it!
Excellent work. One of the most informative videos I've seen in a while. Not too much info or there rigjt now on HPM and EW
I'll be waiting and watching for Epirus to go public. It sounds like a good investment. Great interview.
you can always guarantee the MIC will over charge the taxpayer for ineffective garbage.
GREAT SHOW!!! I HOPE THESE ARE AS GREAT AS HE SAID!!!!!
Outstanding! Ward Carroll recommends this channel and I'm glad that I tuned in. This was quite interesting material - especially for this former Navy Hospital Corpsman/retired civvy Paramedic. Great job! My thanks go out to both of you.
❤❤
Thanks so much for tracking this down. Microwave weapons are bleeding edge and theres so little info out there about them and their current status.
Ive even heard Arleigh burkes could feasibly use their AESAs as kinetic system. Not just EW, but literally as an augment to AEGIS as a destructive effector.
He was great as the captain in Firefly!
When I was a kid I made a microwave gun made from microwave oven parts, I pointed it a helicopter it almost crashed because I was scared I trashed that project
Do you know some Lughanskiy Guys named Kreosan?
I wonder if there will be some version of this integrated into the NGAD fighters. Sounds like it would be effective in countering missiles from enemy aircraft and SAM's. If it could work in this use case, it would be hugely advantageous because unlike flairs and chaff it would never run out.
Outstanding 🤘.!.
Thanks ✌️
Will be interesting how this evolves and what counter-measures will come up. I once read some sci-fi where they'd dust the whole area with micro-chaff mist to disperse energy weapons.
Also are these machines vulnerable themselves? Will we get an arms race where one side is trying to outrange and bust the others microwave systems?
This system is survivable only when it's part of an array that covers all 360 degrees with no mechanical rotation. Otherwise, it's pretty easy to defeat a standalone instance with a swarm of ultrafast quads arriving from all directions at the right intervals.
Does this system have the potential to be used in an anti-armor role? Disabling on board sensors rendering then blind or possibly completely immoblizing them?
I like this guest, he's 70x less hammered than John Konrad was
Navy surface Sailor retiree: love The Merge, love this guest. Thank you! These are the type of folks that make it foolish to attempt to oppose the United States and our allies.
I was curious if you were going to bring on someone like this. Time on ship I saw a few drones get zapped by SPY radar (photo op - Friendly drone) and wondered if weapon systems similar would be employed soon with this development of drone warfare. Thanks for the on going great content!
I appreciate it!
New wep = new counters = revised new wep = revised new counters "and so ad infinitum".
Except of course, that Leonidas died with his 300 in the end and the Persians went on to defeat Athens before losing the war in a sea battle.
Greek here. Athens was evacuated, not defeated. The sacrifice of Leonidas and the laconias bought time and made the evacuation of the entire Athenian population to Salamis island possible.
Xerxes found an empty city and his imperial army started to starve. The Persians were not defeated only on sea. Their land campaign became a logistical nightmare.
If they are free microwaves, that's a great deal for the Army ... /jk
Really enjoyed watching this video. Andy was a great guest and could explain things in a way, that even dumb dumbs on this topic like me could understand.
Are military grade systems not hardened against EMP/HPM?
What would stop somebody else from shielding their drones and, programming them before launch so, they did not receive any signals. Could that work to work around this system?
Until the wind blows, or the target moves, or the battery power varies.
Given that successful long term human occupation of space will require a hundred robots per person and skillful management of various energy waves, I would suggest that the Space Force would be the best coordinator for drone operations as it's all related. Robots, drones, energy weapons, it's all a package deal. They would just have franchises that operate in the other branches, civilian & military.
This sounds like you could build this into a radar system as a mode. Mite be interesting to build this into an awacs plane.
is it possible to coat a drone with somewhat like a microwave absorbing or a deflecting/reflecting ish material?
if it is...
then what they made will be somewhat useless or diminished the effect.
Easy defence: microwave screen door.
Trying to jam radars is a waste of time. Since the receiver know exactly the waveform that the transmitter made.
Just admit it. You want the war machine to write you a cheque.
Great video, thank you! Would be interested to hear Andy Lowery's take on Gallium nitride supply chain issues given China's restrictions.
hmmmm based on the size it would fit on a number of air frames really easy at a large scale, take the Kband off the awacs and put that in the dome? attached to the side or nose of a C130? hang one off the pylons on a B-52?? depending on power draw and range could be amazing
I used microwaves against planes in 1971. It did not work when there was a pilot at 5 miles! But close in with drones unless it had a Faraday Shield, it will overload the electronics.
I’ve noticed even ring cameras on WiFi can mess with my drone at close range
I'm reminded of the Effectors from 'The Culture's by Ian Banks
hi...good thinking ...order a few per state..
What if the drones are emp proof would microwave affect them?
What are the power requirements for this system?
Good question, the Mobile version might give an idea. It's mounted on some kind of 8 wheel APC type vehicle, so it can't be beyond whatever that thing can generate. The website says "Leonidas Mobile has the flexibility to integrate on any vehicle or on any hitch, bringing counter-UAS and counter-swarm capabilities to the battlefield to protect the maneuver force. As a fully mobile counter-electronics solution, Leonidas Mobile is a revolution in mission assurance."
Isn't direct energy what caused the fires on Hawaii ?? For some reason all comments are gone after someone start showing some videos and this ppl seems to be very eager to go full blown on this it needs to be investigated and show to the public what are the pros and cons about it
It's exactly like metal in a microwave because that is what it is. It induces a current in the wires and electronics. Any micro components are fried.
Copper tape actually blocks microwaves 99%. No need for grounding. Aluminum foil works just as well. It's actually proven on tech ingredients. We all know who that is.
Does anyone know where I can go to find out who know most about Ukr surveillance drones locking target for F16 munitions
Warthunder......Vlad. Your welcome!
Great for warming up hot dogs 😮
I was literally on final at DCA when you brought up that example....slight pucker..
😂😂😂
I really wish there was more research into MASERs
I've been wondering that for years
Why did I write so many short comments? Because long comments don't get read and multiple short comments do feed the algorithm 👍
You even added a meta comment to explain the tactic.
Great show Mike very interesting as always.. We need some of Mr Lowery's Epirus systems here to stop ruzzian Shahid swarms. But, alas ITAR. One question, can you use those in built up area's in a city without adversely affecting the people in the path of the beam ? My guess is no, all the electronic stuff in their homes would be affected at least.
The website says "Human Safe - Low voltages, zero ionizing radiation, and software-controlled safe zones make Leonidas safe for people and friendly assets alike."
SAR? Ah yes, I've encountered this back when we were introducing a whole family of TADs which allowed personnel to train against enemy IEDs.
Is great to see Martin Sheen working in the defense industry now. Love your movies btw
Speaking of the peak to trough power ratio it kind of sounds like a microwave oven on defrost mode.
How easily 😮can the unit be targeted?
Cant they be but on balloons to create Large area no go zones for sky and land?
HPM drones are next
Let's be cognizant of the hypersonic threats.
You forgot to mention what happened to the 300.
Well , yu would want a Dragonfire to deal with Shaheds , and an Epirus to deal with Quadcopter Swarms .
Would they be willing to offer a reward for someone who can build a drone that can beat their system
Why Pay Someone to Trash your DARPA Project?
TUSPL Creates plasma
How's the research on your warp reactor coming to power this energy shield?
Metal blocks microwaves
That’s because a threat has not been created yet. Buyers would be lining up to buy your products.
5:05 Asymmetric warfare has moved from nuclear submarine to CHIP 5:22
Here is the FAA InFOs Regarding any potential threat from drones.
RID Will fix it.
Additionally, banning Chinese drones and putting most of our domestic drone service providers out of business will fix it even better. (Even we at the FAA know that this is ridiculous but we had to say something)
So this technology isn't exactly new. It's not existed in this new form of application before but the principles are the same as has been used to down UAPs for decades already. Weaponised radar and microwave systems for encounters some certain people don't want us to talk about. Nonetheless a very interesting new application of this technology. It is going to serve well for protecting US assets on Guam, and other places. Ukraine needs these systems last year already.
Funny about the current (& past) Administration ion the Ukraine is that their focus is no longer innovation, development & production, rather standing on the median on a busy street panhandling for the Price of Nuclear Device.
Israel might be desperate enough to hand on off.
Good idea but it have to be extremely mobile,
DID YOU KNOW!? Putin has HPM weapons toooo? Let me brief you. His version uses 12 IKEA microwaves stacked to form a pyramid to take advantage of pyramidal energy, a secret of the USSR that still holds TRUE.. BUTT each IKEA microwave has a mechanical clock timer that can only be set for 20 mins at a time before ding... America's HPM systems were made by Lockheed Martin, it was supposed to be cheap but Their scientists said the magnetron was to be made of pure gold bars to defeat the Soviet kind of pyramidal energy, I was told it makes the electrons dance harder. Funny because when we opened up the square antennas- we found a bunch of normal IKEA microwave magnetrons except our version has a (made in america) SPDT switch. So its performance is not interrupted ever 20 min but our switch is always on. No windows for you Putin. War all the time! The American System Works! Victory is Assured.......
Hey wait aren't we electric and we have skin
I'm only 8 minute and I have to ask a question. Russia is using this asymmetric strategy against the air defenses in Ukraine. It would seem like the way to counter that is to attack the launch points rather than the missiles bombs and drones. If Biden and Schulz are not willing to do that how else cand rushes a symmetric attack be nullified? The air defense missiles being used are much more expensive than the targets they're being launched launched against, and they don't have enough systems to start with even if ammunition was unlimited.
This can't go on forever so how do we not lose?
Biden? What all the hells do you think the job of president of the U.S.entails? Is he out there repairing Blackhawks, processing military payroll, cooking up meals in the mess, and patrolling base perimeters as well?
Rubber. Absorbs microwaves
Just paint stuff blue
So we reinvinting the Japanese death ray of WW2?
U.k patriot here,I know a way(non tech) that renders your microwave emmitters non effective on any potential threat. No its not the copper bollocks or a faraday cage nonsense.
Theres a couple of other things you aint thought about either.
A few 100’s of £’s and il tell you. If im wrong keep your cash,but i aint.
Amazing interview! BUT... Why is it that every time I find a great company that I would love to work for, they are NOT in NORTHEAST OHIO!?!?
They are ALWAYS in California!?!?
I mean, seriously, Why wouldn't advanced technology firms come to the Cleveland area? You can literally find so many great people and cheap land!
*I'm sure the governor and/or cities would give huge tax breaks! also.
Great point. The economic incentives and talent pools are a big factor
Californian here. I live out near Edwards AFB within 20 min of the Northrop and Lockheed facilities down the road. The answer is people. California does have a lot of cheap land as many states do, but the magnetic pull for corporations is skilled and experienced workers. California has the most universities, and with the existing business economy of internet tech in Silicon Valley, space tech, aviation, etc, it is easy for defense contractors to poach the employees and engineers they need from the surrounding region. I am absolutely positive that your area of Ohio is a great place with a lot of smart people, but a multinational defense contractor would require many of their top researchers and designers to move there from out of state. A lot of them would have to come from California. It just makes more sense to bring your facility to where the people are at. There is also a lot of venture capital money sloshing around CA, meaning the small, sub-contractors and sub-sub-contractors that large defense firms rely on for software or widgets have an easier time getting off the ground.
@@RyanValles-oz2yj
Hey, thanks for the reply. I suppose these are things that are mostly understandable or obvious, however, I think there is enormous potential for a YOUNG (45-50yr old) ambitious, sharp, & articulate future presidential candidate Who recognizes the benefit of breaking the "status-quo" & prioritize MASSIVE Investment & resources towards the goal of incentivizing a new generation of young HARDWARE & Software based defense industries & competition throughout the country (not just CA, Virginia & DC Lobbyists on K Street 🤣)
If done correctly w/ the right messaging, it could foster rapid innovation, healthy competition & economic growth.
** I recently stumbled upon this playlist for a series called "Pictures of Us" documenting the accomplishments in RDT&E at the China Lake, CA "NAWCWD"
(Navy Air War Center Weapons Division)
I Honestly couldn't stop watching it.
ua-cam.com/play/PLgtTEkCzZkOd79T6if4q-HGEnvjdre3p2.html&si=-OvfB8BcDRtNKQVI
Putin, push the button, I'm begging You!
Is it true that wearing a tin foil hat protects you from Havana syndrome?
nope, but try putting your mobile phone in an empty aluminium biscuit tin and try to call it with another phone. Bet it won't get any reception and ring. Have tested it myself.
55:05 RCCTO- Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office The Army Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office serves to expedite critical capabilities to the field to meetCombatant Commanders’ needs. The Office enables the Army to experiment, evolve and deliver technologies in real time to address both urgent and emerging threats, while supporting acquisition reform efforts. The Army Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office reports to a Board of Directors led by the Secretary of the Army, and including the Chief of Staff of the Army, Under Secretary of the Army, Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, Army Acquisition Executive, and the Commanding General of Army Futures Command.
The Army Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office executes rapid prototyping and initial equipping of strategically important capabilities to meet commanders’ warfighting needs, consistent with the Army’s modernization priorities. Beyond closing current capability gaps, the Office also aims to stimulate aggressive, proactive capability development and leverage disruptive technologies to meet Army strategic objectives.
Are they not all transsexuals and LGBTQ running the military in the USA
Would be a great Wall for the border
Faraday cage
If Any American can rip of the door of their microwave which runs at 2.4 Ghz the control channel for many drones, and in addition project enough energy to disrupt digital electronics. Drone warfare is not dead. But it will take some time to get drone with INS and TERCOM but they will be more expensive. So even in a drone war we have options! I would love to see China take us out with drones. It would be an epic fail. Every Navy ship is equipped with VERY HIGH POWER RF jamming gear.
1994 - HAARP is the world-leading technology in top secret phased array electronics
2024 - Mini-HAARP on a truck .
Leonidis kind of sounds like a device that might be usable to cause something like Havana/ Moscow syndrome...🤔
Please don't let the chinese steal this technology.
tee hee hee !
So the enemy sends in a robotic dog (low profile) or robotic snake (extreme low profile), it fires an EMP, takes out the microwave. Then what? Always disappointed in how we brag about our tech, tell everyone what it is, the materials we use, and how it works, then assume our enemies are not paying attention and developing counter-defenses and counter-attacks. Whatever we have, I hope we have layers of contingencies and not just one layer that could get knocked out leaving us with little else. Nuclear weapons are not the answer.
Sounds like a flack…
Are any going to Ukraine
This is all very well and good, but it all means nothing if you miss detecting and eliminating that one little traitorous mole in your enterprize that simply passes on all of your hard won research and development to our enemies at his/her first opportunity. American companies are (i believe) much to lax in their vetting of prospective employees and in their attitudes toward security. And it is costing us in ways we can not now imagine.
👽👽👽👽🌎👽👽👽👽
Russia was I should say are the best at this
#DHTK #CSIS #FISU #CIA #GCHQ #DGSE
#PSIA #ICRU #SUPO #MUST #PET #VLA #J2 #ASIS #NZSIS #TI
#ScanCath #OCanada #SlavaUkraine
#Chornobyl #Rubicon #Lockheed #Vatican
#Valkyries #Se
#Eagle
The U.S. lost it’s production capacity edge both Russia and China out produce the U.S. ability to manufacture. Russia by itself can out produce nato and U.S. combined.
Could you duct tape a potato to a drone, wrap it a ALL in aluminum foil and see if the drone drops or the potato can be eaten?
Win Win Either Way!
Both Russia/Ukraine (the only symmetrical part of this equation) are dealing with the $65- Drone with a 4 lb mortar shell duct taped to it because they both copy from each other from parts & captured items. No one on that battle front has an overwhelming advantage, it's just "Adapt & Overcome"
The "Drone Swarm" = Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose: is very outdated and only has a narrow application in an environment where everything changes but circles back to similar responses.
It's nice that you get to spend boatloads of gov't $$$ but any definitive tactic will create a detour around the situation that triggers that weapon.
Russian/Ukraine both have Hunter/Killer Teams armed with decoy drones, anri-EW transmitters, yagi antennas mounted on a rifle frame plus the all time favorite: the 12 gage pump shotgun with a BB load.
God help the n00b that uses the "return home" function only to get hit immediately by a little friend picked up alo g the way.
This War, World War Three, has only just started and could last over 10 years, like it or not.
Send Leonidas to Ukraine ASAP!
(Russia needs this!)
(Actually Probly Already Has It)
Don't Worry about Espionage, just keep leading the pack. Some things Russia has in the way of EW has already been tested on US Ships and definitely NATO systems. (and what EW don't cover, an Iskander can)
35:22 Vortex Cannon vs Drone ua-cam.com/video/SrGENEXocJU/v-deo.html Mark Rober 15M views 1 month ago - Anduril Industries, Inc. is an American defense technology company that specializes in advanced autonomous systems. It was founded in 2017 by inventor Palmer Luckey with investors and founders associated with Palantir and SpaceX