J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1982 - Conv. 1 - How does one inquire into the source of all life?
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1982 - Conversation 1 with Pupul Jayakar - How does one inquire into the source of all life?
Summary:
What is the source of all existence, all life, all action?
What is the approach of a mind that wants to inquire into something that it doesn't know, something that demands an extraordinary quality of deep subtlety, deep capacity of order?
Why doesn't one feel totally responsible for the wars, the brutality, the terrible things that are happening in the world?
Human beings have created such disorder in themselves and therefore outwardly. How does one comprehend, be aware of, the origin of disorder?
What is the state of action that is born out of complete attention?
To watch my reactions, my responses, to observe diligently my relationship with another, intimate or not -- is it necessary to go through all this?
Any person who gives attention, who wants to hear, who really says, 'I must find the source of life,' who is passionate about it, not just casual, then he will listen. Not to me -- he will listen. It is in the air.
---
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What a true GEM indeed! Too bad he is not here now. How heavenly it would have been to meet him in real life and have a discussion with him. Although Ihe did not initiate me as a student, he will always be my only Guru all my life.
Un dialogo non facile da seguire ...il modo pesante della signora non era propio invitante ...k.ha una enorme pazzienza e sensibilita ..il suo modo di essere e' un esempio ....GRAZIIIIIIE ❤ GRAZIIIIIIE ❤ GRAZIIIIIIE ❤
It was very painful for me watch her arrogance and lack of knowledge until 1 hour and 18 minutes. After that, it was a different Pupul.
Questa è una straordinaria conversazione,di grande profondità e dolcezza tra le due persone❤
Oh wow - what an excellent exposure of the difference between the traditional processes of learning which are focused on becoming and the non-traditional approach espoused almost solely by Krishnamurti (K) which is the only way to cut through the whole framework of orthodox principles and in so doing uncover the ground upon which human psychological states stands.
Ms Jayaker (J) presents the case for complying with concepts, formulas, practices etc and demonstrates the rigidity and arrogance which is common to knowledge based methodology and therefore omits to recognise the time binding aspects associated with this discipline.
K correctly pointed out that adherence to the slavery of word based instruction models of learning is fundamentally useless when the object is to uncover the source of living consciousness per se and not to get caught up in complying with some scheme of things put together with the aim of achieving a set goal outlined by an accepted expert or professional other person.
Bravo K, thanks for showing the laymen of this world that we can be a light unto ourselves.
Thank you very much for sharing this video! This is a precious thing!!!!
Please accept my most heart felt thanks for sharing! Its a life chaning, a mind changing.
Pupulji Is The 🐝 who knows exactly how to extract the essence of the Flower. She always brings the best of K out... She is the one who gets K more than anyone of us and K knows that very well... K respects that... The way K opens up with pupulji or few more he never does that generally...
Great respect for pupulji humility for representing most of us. 🙏
True. You could possibly also add Dr. Bohm, with whom too K shared a great rapport.
I cannot see that with her. Rather unnerving and his patience is paramount with her.
@@annelbeab8124 You cannot see if any blame you attribute is praising the indefinable as far as the workings of the Saturn makes, how-beit his brother the God of death often is doing in equal footing as popular religion believes.
From whom all the world of words went forth, to reveal epiphanous trial of silence of consolations to priestess who are chosen for becoming a good mistress of truth with out ant foregoing works of merit in themselves except passion for conversion of latent mirror-image of asymmetric superposition Bob synonymous experience with life.
There is nothing to extract 😂😂😂😂but are people extracting from this 😂😂😂😂
only THAT MIND WITH A PERCEPTION WHICH RESTS IN THE CREATIVE can get deep into this dialogue. Not easy to retain this state. Focussed seeing and hearing needed. mind and brain enter into unknown area. SIMPLY amazing .Salute u both.
Gracias por subir este material 🙏
Thank you very much for these Indonesian translation. Terima kasih.
PUPUL JI is amazing she has the quality of bringing out the best . it does justice to the purpose of CONVERSATION
listened to you many times SIR and at last you did it.THANKS PUPUL THANKS DEAR K..
To fully understand him you have to listen without the thinking mind.
1:25:20 the master just doesn't allow himself to be appreciated. What an enormous compassion to refuse to be a Guru while being one of the greatest Guru of all times!!
It is remarkable in that K has essentially talked about the same thing for more than six decades. That is to dissolve (without the dissolver) the ME or the ego by observing the whole thought process as a way of life or meditation. We can only dissolve the ME or the ego, when we, by the process of meditation as described by K, understand the fact of psychological conflict within us or the duality and feel it as intensely as we feel hunger or avoid the conflict within us as intelligently as we avoid a poisonous snake.
Now, I can empathize with Ms. Pupul since most of us, including myself, suffer from the intellectual understanding of the Truth. The intellectual understanding is based on human thought, which is always limited as K resolutely puts it. The startling fact is that the very cunning intellect must be first understood by careful and choiceless observation to a level when the intellect naturally dissipates like fog does and then we can see clearly since our intelligence will be awakened.
The problem is that most of us do engage is observing ourselves or self-awareness, but in the end we don’t “accomplish” anything, so we gravitate towards the “diligence”. But K proved that diligence is the negligence by relinquishing the order at a young age. To most of us, “diligence” gives us something to play with!
The fundamental issue here is that it is not that we can’t do the impossible as pupil called it, it is that we expect a tangible result. For example, we expect us not to get angry, jealous etc. in situations where we previously used to suffer from those human emotions. We get frustrated and think that it is not working. But, the fact is that thought is an auto-play of our knowledge and experience based on our conditioning and stored up in the memory cells. So, thought will always be representative of the human consciousness, it can be replaced by a new thought, but it will again be derived from the human consciousness. In the psychological realm, thought in the form of a word will always bring conflict and dissipation of energy. The real place and value of thought is in the technical (as K calls it) realm. So, we simply have to observe this fact. Then, there will be a natural state of cessation of thought and a benediction of supreme intelligence.
Wow dear, you summed it up quite greatly
and this is just the beginning right?
X-ray was discovered in 1895 , but invisible to consciousness , no one else could have by trial brought such a structure hidden outside the world of photography . But-X-ray is the best choice in the diagnosis of the infirm elderly with lesser ossification. Choicelessly self-awareness has led to opposite of compunction, whereas mis-sense has led to dissipation in the religious mindedness on self-consideration.
The simile is the best choice for the awareness. There are 3 dolls one made of cloth, the other of sugar or salt and the third of pure stone. Uncle if we immerse the first. It well be wet,the second will dissolve completely leaving no trace between solute and the Solicitant-solvent, but the stone doll (God ends here) will be impervious. To what shall the experiencer give or take credit for charitable actions in this book. Of life.
David bohm and j.k dialogues are the best dialogues to understand his teachings.
Mulțumesc. Un dialog minunat, care inspiră. Mulțumesc Krishnamurti, mulțumesc pupuji, mulțumesc vouă 🙏
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
dear K and PUPUL JI enjoying every bit if it. and of course listening and in the same movement myself thanks
Nossa emocionante quando Pupul compreende o ensinamento!, Gratidão!
She never understood…. He just suspires almost at the end of the talk, he has been repeating the same for endless years, as has been done by every great master…. Thank you J.K you gave humanity everything you had until your last breath 💓
Yes absolutely❤️
She understood, its just that she was curious how as to have others to get this mind set.
She never really sees. She’s totally on the intellectual level.
Krishnamurtis conversations with Bohm,Anderson and Pupulji is worth saving and listening again and again.And of course his biography written by Pupulji ❤and of course Brockwood Park 1984 Scientists Seminars
1:22:48
1:28:00
At above two moment Pupul is struck by immensity of K. Of K's perception and something indescribable. 🙂
Wonder why no one has patience to just witness Pupul's mind and there is an underlying plight to it / to her as well.
We may be more flexible than her or claim that at least but she represents some of us for sure!
Thank you ❤️
Agree
Сижу вот, какаю и слушаю. И так спокойно становится.
Pupul Jayakar-Great lady, the closest associate of Krishnaji. See how carefully she speaks to him. Watch they both have the same body language and facial expressions.
Step out of it. This is so true. We do it all the time for so many things in our life, but not for some things. We find it hard to step out of something (preconditioning, attachment) and we conclude that it cannot be done because at some level we still think we derive something from that attachment. Our mind fools us into believing that it cannot be done.
I absolutely know that one can leap out of chaos into the state of non-chaos absolutely while the chaos continues without any grasp on that which is; there genuinely is no process that reveals it but that it is.
Truth is a pathless land...some simple man once said :P
Oh god this was truthfull eye opening
There is no method at all. Just quiet mind can understand, completely out of any bias, of any wishes. There is nothing to wish or want, only to wander.
Masterpiece 🙏🙏🙏
JK is making sense to me and I am not disciplined or diligently trained. Why? Because I am listening!
Thank you! ❤️
❤
It is really funny that until Pupulji stopped talking so much and acting with a kind of assertiveness, but I felt more of an agression ( after all as she said in her understanding the two things are nearly similar ). And until she did it she could not understand a word of what Krishnaji was saying. For me personally two thrids of this conversation was very exhausting to listen, because it was not a conversation. Pupulji made it more of a fight. And at last at the end of conversation she quietened down and just listened without so much effort which she put into resisting what Krishnaji had said before and without sticking into her own ideals. In that moment when she stayed silent she was capable of listening and understanding the whole of the Krishnaji's notion or better called truth. He said so many times that you have to just listen, but it did not get to her. In other talks he said when you are attentive, capable of understanding the truth or seeing it, there is no effort at all and here it is an evidence.
She was very arrogant and combative. She did not listen at all until 1 hour 18 minutes....and then it hit her like a ton of bricks. Watch her frowning and facial expression around this time, you will see the massive pain of defeat, followed by total submission.
A good 20 mins into this..JK is ready to peel the layers of the onion, while Pupul is still looking for a table! With all due respect, not sure why did she do this to herself.
She is just copying K.
Discipline comes into being out of self understanding. Discipline forced by will is different than that.
If we put aside enquiry then how do we uncover the origin? Can somebody explain?
so beautiful
Have been reading and watching j krishnamurti for 3 years, and I still can't quite grasp it. It's difficult to understand. Because it's so different to anything I've heard before
I think your case is reasonable as Nietzsche had point out, that we tend to be difficult for grasping new (different) ideas. But it is not impossible, though. Especially if it is useful for us.
First "Listen" without any judgement, prejudice, choice and prenotion. Then...
-See the faulsehood of mankind's great struggle of "Becoming" through practice, tradition and belief.
-Let go of the "Known" and step out of it with all your energy
-"Listen" again for the answer! And the answer you get is not the result of a question...rather, it "IS"!
Gracias
These types interviews only for mentally pleasure and to show that I am also intellectual person and nothing else
these types of interview is not suitable for conditioned mind(or not willing to be free from condition).
Avinash,
I'm coming to your screen just too late.
At the other day someone has put his comment upon Putin's greed as his reason of invading Ukraine.
Then, others comments appeared and built a polemik of greed and need.
So, I try to end their polemik by giving a comment that our need is just the daily bread.
Then a woman appeared to say that Putin's reason is deeper than that. There is a reason that we never taken care seriously. She suggest me to read Krishna.
Now, here I found a fundamental and useful explanation.
I do not expect to be called an intellectual person, instead, I feel wrecked, perhaps worst than Putin.
Thats some high level of self honesty and introspection there, I would say you are closer to what J.K teaches here than most.
The essence finally extracted.😀 Why J.K is so cautious in putting the words because of the immensity the total arguement contains..... If a mind totally understood this immensity then it is the dawn if unimind is coherent with brain and also may be dusk if both are incoherent.... Should cautiously meet this ...
Believe me 1:07:46 now our mind is really immature and incapable to listen to anything.
And it's not a joke.
I think we are the generation who just wants answers without looking it for ourselves.
We want someone to verify our answer because we are not after truth but after being right or winning.
The truth is just one no one is right or wrong if we collectively try to focus on or to see the truth for ourselves and not on being right or wrong.
1:24:55 She pointed out something great that for J.K the whole moment of dormant has come to an end.
If we don't do this diligence work now to ourselves we will be in danger. b/c our brain have stored so many things good or bad and the moment we become unaware of the mind it will do things which we will say is not me who did it, its something else.
In whole video up to @1:12:00 when Pupilji said…but look at the danger in what you have just said….
She was not listening to Krishnaji. And she may not have listened all her life up to that point.
Now you can imagine the plight of the other listeners like myself who keeps on coming to this site for last 15, 20 or 30 years to watch videos.
My question is why do we make the same mistake like Pupilji made in this video?
Habit🙄
Indians say, "we are like that only."
K: Hey P, let’s head to the coffee shop across the road
P: Great idea K! I’ll ring up the helicopter; it’ll arrive in a couple of hours!
K: Huh?
Ultimate 🙏🙏🙏
It was very painful to watch Pupul not listening to some gems he was saying. Pupul utterly ruined this conversation by constantly talking, instead of making him say more. For 1 hour and 18 minutes, she said so many wrong things, in an effort to defend her position.....but at 1 hour 18 minutes, she really felt total defeat. She was more interested in showing her expertise (nonexistent) in the area of discussion. When K asked her, "did u listen to me?" she said yes, but she was constantly disagreeing with him. How is that listening? She is so silly in this conversation. She wants to win the debate. She said she listens to music that way and she asks, why does it not change me. His point was, when you listen to something and realize the truth, you change instantly. Silly thing she does not realize is that music is not the same, there is nothing like insight or truth in music. Dr, Bohm was the best.
These type of people making things serious .they are understanding themselves only.
wow! Krishnamurti ❤
Perfect example of a cup fully filled. K is wasting his time
Absolutely. She does not listen to him at all. Her cup is overflowing....
at some point it seems she was trying to destroy K.
The analytical approach of observation is mechanical and repetitive or as Krishnamurti would call it "neurotic". But observation for him is to observe from the point of logical unity or non-duality. That is to observe with total attention where there is no motion of thought. And in that observation true action begins.
Attention means mutual respect for listening and seeing. It is experimental design for doubly subjected to the contradiction of facts, for e. g., I was able a bodied Hindu and by being widowed I am a seeker of order in my action non -intr usively without you being non superimposable dual entity ,when my mind didn't know what it is like searching my mind went elsewhere but between then and now, the experience of unreality of non-difference in a Relatable , unforeseen enquiry into my matrix foreign to my self and keep both and neither of non self in self and vice versa. I've been never minding of crucifies flung at me in the path of fellowship with omniscience.
"It's in the air"!!!!
Спасибо за русские субтитры! А можно ожидать эти прекрасные видосы в 4К?
Words are more important than visuals. Sir
This is Jewel
47:00 ( enquiry into myself)
54:00 ( is it imp to go through all this )
1:02:22 ( MY MIND IS DISORDERLY) 1:09:01 ( holds hand ) 1:22:57 mind of krishnamurti 1:26:50 buddha
🦋
I am 6:43 into this and already it's difficult to continue. The lady does not appear to understand the questions she is attempting to formulate and wants to discuss. I have no idea where she is going most of the time. She appears confused, lacking clarity and out of her depth. No disrespect to her but you have to really be prepared and on the ball with KM. I would have felt embarrassed to be in her place lol Unfortunately, appears she wasted a once in a lifetime opportunity. In comparison, I have watched a talk with an American priest which was totally different and immensely interesting. I only hope she 'got it' one day 🙏
You can't prepare yourself to be present.
this is again perpetuation of self
This isn't about PJ. This was supposed to be about you.
She could have enquired about K's extraordinary past and how could everyone achieve that.
That makes him different. The kind of mind he has is the result of practices which he doesn't prescribe to others
I'm sorry to say but, Pupulji was making questions by herself, then she was continously complexing her own questions, then she was trapped by her own questions, after K was simplifying and answering her questions, again Pupulji was simulating K's answers. And go on the cycle. So funny!!!
She was the first and only person I ever heard listening to him and eventually seeing what he says and not what they want to hear and already know and commuted to.
I love her
@@MrGnaveh I don't want to make it a competition, but in terms of understanding and having a conversation Dr Allan W. Anderson talks are a glaring example.
The metal cauldron allegory is the uncomfortable reality check of investigating who really you are seeing relatable to non-self,for, e.x the food which is cooked for you in non living cauldrons that is conditioned by fire and not the real you. So, the existing reality is we live to eat and share it in a respectable attitude.
@1.07.40 to 1.09.10 Krishna ji on firing facts...
My patients are being tested here. I want to listen to the master but, she won't allow him explain!!! 😔
If you are hoping to catch nuggets of wisdom from this master then you will be doing it your whole life. Go into it, find out for yourself.
I get irritated when JK doesn't get to finish his sentence. When you're sitting near an enlighten person, you let him do most of the talking.
absolutely...when a wise man speaks, one just listens
This is old conditioning. There is no such thing as an enlightened person. There is only enlightened action. Don't believe me, go into it.
There's no such thing as enlightenment
Maybe we don't take totally responsibility, because we identifies with giving responsibility to someone or something else...
Which we gives authority or power....
Maybe we can't be totally responsible, because we don't mirrors uself in eachother....
"There is no enemy, the enemy is you" KJ.
There is no enemy. The enemy is you. Mic drop!
👋
I will lose my two brain cells if I listen to this conversation.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 pupu ji common we are so near to ❤🎉😂😂😂
Tha art of talking about talking.
Genius among Novices obviously became a Novice in front of the Genius ...
She is not letting him talk. She is not listening to Him
Thanks youtube I watched puppul blah blah in 2x
really a shame that she thinks all the time when he talks, she doesn't even understand what K stands for
Not sure if you watched entire vid but it's a dialect between the two and k brings her around to profound understanding toward the end of talk
I do understand why you made your comment I just thought I would add that in case something's missed. Good day to you.
🙏🏻
🌻💚💥🙏
💥
Is he asking her where her thought starts in ? What are the mechanisms, what button she pushes if she think that she does it, to think to ask, to do anything? Nobody bore ! You have only stories NOW that you were born. The world is in you and not you in the world. The world is your projection. And you body is YOUR body, which means that you look at it as to yours and not you.
One is not totally responsible bcoz one does not comprehend that it is one’s projection , there is no others , you are alone.
Not that you are expression , but everything is expression of you, not “you” as a body, “you” that is not the body and not even the mind
Listen
Human mind can never uncover the origin.But we can keep criticising the other and religion as absurd. Is it so?
It's more informative and entertaining watching Krishna ji only, the lady is confused and confusing the audience also 😂
When you are confused, you begin to see the truth more clearly. To understand the stillness of the water you have to throw a stone at it. Notice how it calms down and your understanding lights up ...
Could we say it would be like fitting a computer into a human brain.
How will you win a games against your thoughts, which controls all your moves
-> k won the match but what about us ?
I m practising one task at a time..trying no deviation...it is also a game play to control thoughts. 😀
When person is dead then mind automatically become why we need quite mind why why it's just con-cept
I love pupulji and ofcourse jk
Parts of this remind me of when Siri is talking to itself
22:00 let’s leave that JK, knowing Pupul may not understand.
Un pochino ottusa la donna e molto divagante , non sa quel che vuole dal Maestro e divaga continuamente. Alla fine sembra che abbia compreso di stare in silenzio di fronte al Maestro.
53:43
This must have been done by dr.bohm
She thinks she can help K and teach him something.
With due respect to the talk....it's going nowhere for atleast one hr.
is there anywhere to go?
Oops sorry you felt so. hope you listen closely..Again!
48 min
Is this suppose to be intellectual?
1:25:58
Alot of disorder in this discussion I see
She is not listening at all ! As if she dosent want to
The lady won't let go of her own self. Can't accept the whole of mankind... That we are not individuals, we are mankind!
This lady is so confusing. Constant interference and lack of clarity.
Squid games 🦑
K is talking to a Stone
Many ous are... 🤷♀️
@@tanvis4641 Many of us🤓
she asked the questions of our conditioned mind.so how can you compare her to a stone?i thank her.