she says "don't show a budget unless you are asked for one"... literally every other speaker (publisher) says the exact opposite... the main thing that Publishers are interested in, is how much will it cost.
What I experienced all investors want to know your initial proposal about your budget, income, (exit - more investor strategy). A start point about negotiation with other project details.
@@jasonbaldwin273 Investors always want to know what your proposal. Because then they know how serious / realistic you are. Oh and the dev cost is a key factor for them. They don't care your perfect game dream if you have unrealistic high or stupidly cheap dev cost or not show them! They got huge amount of pitch. Because you need to know how to propose the money side too. Without that knowledge you are a high risk for them in a business perspective. Where you don't need to show money is in the onepager but some investors really apricate if they see there too.
The biggest issue she brought up is the fact people like her work at important positions in the industry while she is no gamer and didn't even play games herself. THIS is a major issue with all the "suit" kind of people in the business.
17:06 Explains the issue with the industry in a nutshell as a lot of games are getting frontloaded to be cool/interesting in the first hour, but then fall off sharply.
@@GravitySmashify Prey (2017) - starts off with a blast and settles down to doing chores for the next 20+ hours until you get to a wtf-ending ... I've watched the ending on youtube, cause I had no more fun playing it. Heat Signature has a strong beginning, but at some point you develop a dominant strategy and stick to it until it gets boring (still an awesome game I pick up every now and then but it really needs a mechanic to avoid players sticking to the same strategy for hours/days) Risk of Rain 2 - if you don't learn to exploit the systems to make a 4h run (which I didn't) it also falls flat quite fast Apart from those .. well IDK, all other indie games I own were awesome till the end, moonlighter / the swindle / neon chrome / Deep Rock Galactic / Swapper / Limbo / Inside / (!) Overgrowth (I highly recommend this one !) / We were here series / ...
I think people are severely underestimating how to design a consistent experience in a game. Like, seriously, with the way people talk about this issue, it’s like they think that games with bad pacing are made to be like that on purpose. Games having bad pacing and making an early game experience that pulls players in are two very different problems and they don’t affect eachother.
She seems super knowledgeable and approachable... but this is yet another talk that starts by saying "everyone thinks they are going to be rich." and "its harder than you think." Speaking to the lowest common denominator isn't actually speaking to the individuals likely to succeed. I have never for one second thought I would make a game to drive a fancy car and I know I can't be alone in this.
@@jsmith434w true. And these speakers, especially the ones monetizing their knowledge, need to understand that if you are going to share knowledge, do it very specifically. Not generically. Speak on what YOU did SPECIFICALLY to attain an edge and move your career forward. Obviously don't post your contacts info but share how you met them. Where, and when. This helps people apply that experience to their own lives. If five out of seven devs met an important contact at a convention that's valuable info. And when you were there, what did you do to get them to talk to you? I.e. in the board gaming industry where I am working now, it's afterhours at conventions that are the best networking times and elevator pitches almost never work... Etc... they need to stop blanketing everything into "work hard" and "stop now if you think you'll be rich." Have faith that the listeners that matter know this already.
It's Chris Traeger's sister. And she's literally, using the word incorrectly 90% of the time. Archer covered this girl, the word you're looking for is FIGURATIVELY.
It's a good talk, but her almost boasting that she doesn't know gaming terminology is on her not on the people pitching. You are a producer in a gaming industry, if you can't talk about games what are you doing in this business?
You obviously don't know much about the industry. People who play games are consumers whilst people who publish games are the business class. Consumers are driven by hedonistic pursuits whilst the business class are driven by spreadsheets - profits/loss. So to answer your question publishers only need to know about business (product, marketing, sales etc) and they can turn to consumers when they need qualitative data about the user experience.
@@streetfashiontv9149you’re also wrong. There is nothing inherently superior about people who are “driven” by spreadsheet or profit when it comes to working on the game industry. They get into positions of power because they tend to be more ruthless and unscrupulous with social climbing methods. These people are responsible for the worst AAA garbage because they don’t know what the players want
*Other folks:* "I know all this stuff, my game is too artistic for crass commercial concerns" *Me:* :takes notes eagerly: I love these "business of game dev" talks, especially when it's this kind of "school of hard knocks" experience. Even if you never play at the deep end of the pool (500K sales!), making a better pitch also helps you understand your game better, and how to better connect with your audience. Nothing improves without practice, and you've gotta be ready when that "golden pitch" opportunity comes along. Great talk (just a shame no time for Q&A).
if a game is "too artistic" to take notes from this talk, it will inevitably flop
5 років тому+9
This why I'd rather make a project myself. . . Too many factors that take away my creativity and such. Our Games never get noticed unless we have money. Nice to know. . .
The fact that the CEO of a publisher of a video game company doesn't actually play video games is just so????? it makes me not want to listen to anything that you have to say because it implies no personal passionate investment in end-user experiences.
Coming a little late, but damn, what a depressing talk. I mean, yeah, what she says is probably true for many/most publishers, but coming here and saying "the industry is shit, I'm a piece of that shit, deal with it" is.. Thank you, I guess? I'm pitching to a VIDEOGAME publisher, not to a random rich dude I met at a party. I would say the minimum is that you know the basic videogame genres. You may not be a gamer and not know what attributes like luck usually do in an RPG, but you can't not know what a roguelike is (and actually, she knows they exist but can't be bothered remembering what they are). First time I was totally annoyed watching a GDC talk. A good publisher should care about the game they're publishing. If they don't even know the category they fit in, how can they even know if they want to publish it or not? Oh well, I guess just leave it to the husband who sounds like the one actually doing something productive.
I feel you, this talk sounded so condesending and felt like she couldnt be bothered to actually care about games. Which is pretty weird when you are publishing games, if you dont understand the basics of the genre of what you are contributing to why are you marketing/publishing games.....
"I'm a game publisher", "I only played a 3d game once", "I can't figure if the prototype is good or not, but Adam can". Why didn't you bring Adam to do the talking ?
because its important to know what a publisher is and actually cares about, the fact that adam can do other things is irrelevant to the purpose of this talk.
To be fair, I think that the industry's situation where 99% of indies sell 300~3000 copies isn't a sign of how competitive the industry is, but rather of how much it's filled with bad shovelware games.
Succeeding in the entertainment market is as about distinguishing your game from crap and quality alike. There are plenty of other ways people can spend their time & money - you're not just competing with Steam/mobile, you're also competing with Disney, Netflix, etc.
Making good games requires money and (lots of) time. Both of which are usually lacking (especially money) for the indie scene. So the way the industry is organised is inefficient in the extreme, and alienating for its workers, the work of which is barely recognised. Huuuuge surprise (said no one ever).
I agree. The lack of quality control on the main distribution platforms + the abundance of free engines, frameworks and tools are at the heart of that I believe.
I think this stupid indie fever will end in about 3-5 years because now everyone comes to an understanding that if you make a shit game you won't get any money
Wait what, since when is crafting a special word? It means the same as it always did, just in a different context but for the same goal. It makes me doubt what she's trying to say after hearing such things.
the easier and quicker it is for the audience to understand the better, therefore the language being most commonly encountered wins. Crafting is not common and making or building, right?
This woman is why game developers should avoid publishers ie You should self publish, and if you want the marketing services a publisher provides, hire a marketer, on an hourly rate.
Lots of good information here, but I'm really hung up on the idea that people don't know, or even how to spell, very simple grade-school concepts such as "biome" and "crafting".
The amount of people in this comment section that don’t understand what the heck publishers/publishing is and for, it’s limitation, pros cons and use case is staggering.
Industry is so drunks with money there is no professionalism like in any other media. If you get the money you are right. Pitching is a totally random process handled by random people with lot of theories. But hey, I saw a video about pitching where a guy said “do not come drunk” so on the dev side too level are low. Things are changing as the medium is evolving but man, is so sad.
Pitch is only for investors or publishers, include NDA.... But the people of the investor and publisher should be addressed in such a way that any of them can easily understand and arouse their interest, be it a player or a non-player (cringe-publisher), a developer, or a journalist.
Gonna be a prick here, but why do some talks have (relatively) edgy names to them? So, we are a small studio and we may fall into that category that does some aspects of pitching wrong, you really wanna grind that idea into us huh? don't mind me
I really don't think you are the prick there. GDC is slightly becoming like TED in some aspects. But this is the typical case that you know nothing and they are much better than you. They are a noname company and they will stand there and lecture you on how you do everything wrong. I also have a small studio (about 20 people) and we had our experience with publishers but I cannot honestly say that this talk covers something that I really am unaware of. And just trying to judge objectively, this talk mostly covers the very basics of just your standard pitch deck process. USP, target audience, marketing ground, risks, estimation. Most of it is really basic stuff but you are not prepared and she KNOWS it apparently.
It just a click bait title like "TEN THINGS YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT SONIC." Even though after watching it most people already know those ten things but by then you just finish watching the video and giving them ad money for it.
It's not about "u r doin it wrong" - it's how can you make your pitches better. Just like any decent GDC talk, it's about sharing experiences so that everyone (hopefully) ups their game a bit, improving the overall industry incrementally. If you are 100% fine with how you're doing things, that's fine, no one's twisting your arm.
Overlands prototypes looked so much better than the final game, especially the pixel art one. Edit: The first trailer shown in this video is so much better than the one on steam currently.
I stopped at "literally played games from supernintendo and never played a 3D game until my 20s" and "I dont have knowledge of everythiung that's been made...-" something like that. So what I get is that you evaluate game ideas but you were unaware of 3D games and not even play videogames? Only nintendo ? the company least userfriendly and most lawyer sharks there is? Maybe is not the best way to approach this kind of video, I started doubting all advice.
Okay?!?! I thought I was a total jerk for wanting to point this out. It’s like when movie producers are like, “hey! Don’t expect us to like, KNOW movies, okkkk” getting game publishers SPOUSE vibes here
A blue hair chick who doesn't play games is in charge of picking what games are to be published.... Just a thing i want to hear after working on a project for 3 years without a pay
UP NEXT -> You don't need a F-ing Publisher. youtube made my day
Same, lol.
@@GameDevAraz Yep. Maybe being published by a niche studio could be a good thing.
yah, though go into why you might want a publisher. these two talks go well together
she says "don't show a budget unless you are asked for one"... literally every other speaker (publisher) says the exact opposite... the main thing that Publishers are interested in, is how much will it cost.
What I experienced all investors want to know your initial proposal about your budget, income, (exit - more investor strategy). A start point about negotiation with other project details.
I think the point is that if they aren't interested in your game, your budget is meaningless.
@@jasonbaldwin273 Investors always want to know what your proposal. Because then they know how serious / realistic you are.
Oh and the dev cost is a key factor for them. They don't care your perfect game dream if you have unrealistic high or stupidly cheap dev cost or not show them! They got huge amount of pitch. Because you need to know how to propose the money side too. Without that knowledge you are a high risk for them in a business perspective.
Where you don't need to show money is in the onepager but some investors really apricate if they see there too.
The biggest issue she brought up is the fact people like her work at important positions in the industry while she is no gamer and didn't even play games herself.
THIS is a major issue with all the "suit" kind of people in the business.
17:06 Explains the issue with the industry in a nutshell as a lot of games are getting frontloaded to be cool/interesting in the first hour, but then fall off sharply.
What games specifically?
@@GravitySmashify Prey (2017) - starts off with a blast and settles down to doing chores for the next 20+ hours until you get to a wtf-ending ... I've watched the ending on youtube, cause I had no more fun playing it.
Heat Signature has a strong beginning, but at some point you develop a dominant strategy and stick to it until it gets boring (still an awesome game I pick up every now and then but it really needs a mechanic to avoid players sticking to the same strategy for hours/days)
Risk of Rain 2 - if you don't learn to exploit the systems to make a 4h run (which I didn't) it also falls flat quite fast
Apart from those .. well IDK, all other indie games I own were awesome till the end, moonlighter / the swindle / neon chrome / Deep Rock Galactic / Swapper / Limbo / Inside / (!) Overgrowth (I highly recommend this one !) / We were here series / ...
@bigremo2852 Yes but I've 250+ hours in the game and it still keeps me engaged.
the opposite is true as well, a lot of games "are great once you get through the start"
I think people are severely underestimating how to design a consistent experience in a game. Like, seriously, with the way people talk about this issue, it’s like they think that games with bad pacing are made to be like that on purpose.
Games having bad pacing and making an early game experience that pulls players in are two very different problems and they don’t affect eachother.
Nice talk Rebekah, thanks a lot! As part of an indie publisher myself, I appreciate to know how you're working!
She seems super knowledgeable and approachable... but this is yet another talk that starts by saying "everyone thinks they are going to be rich." and "its harder than you think." Speaking to the lowest common denominator isn't actually speaking to the individuals likely to succeed. I have never for one second thought I would make a game to drive a fancy car and I know I can't be alone in this.
@@jsmith434w true. And these speakers, especially the ones monetizing their knowledge, need to understand that if you are going to share knowledge, do it very specifically. Not generically. Speak on what YOU did SPECIFICALLY to attain an edge and move your career forward. Obviously don't post your contacts info but share how you met them. Where, and when. This helps people apply that experience to their own lives. If five out of seven devs met an important contact at a convention that's valuable info. And when you were there, what did you do to get them to talk to you? I.e. in the board gaming industry where I am working now, it's afterhours at conventions that are the best networking times and elevator pitches almost never work... Etc... they need to stop blanketing everything into "work hard" and "stop now if you think you'll be rich." Have faith that the listeners that matter know this already.
My wife's uncle spends a lot of time in Europe and says "Litrally" all the time just like this and it's literally all I can focus on in this talk.
It's Chris Traeger's sister. And she's literally, using the word incorrectly 90% of the time. Archer covered this girl, the word you're looking for is FIGURATIVELY.
It's a good talk, but her almost boasting that she doesn't know gaming terminology is on her not on the people pitching. You are a producer in a gaming industry, if you can't talk about games what are you doing in this business?
I feel like a person who doesn't play games can't be a very competent game publisher
You obviously don't know much about the industry. People who play games are consumers whilst people who publish games are the business class. Consumers are driven by hedonistic pursuits whilst the business class are driven by spreadsheets - profits/loss. So to answer your question publishers only need to know about business (product, marketing, sales etc) and they can turn to consumers when they need qualitative data about the user experience.
@@streetfashiontv9149you’re also wrong. There is nothing inherently superior about people who are “driven” by spreadsheet or profit when it comes to working on the game industry. They get into positions of power because they tend to be more ruthless and unscrupulous with social climbing methods. These people are responsible for the worst AAA garbage because they don’t know what the players want
44:20 Miniboss did Celeste's art, if I'm not wrong.
I'll tell you one thing, you successfully pitched Tunic and Overland to me, individually.
*Other folks:* "I know all this stuff, my game is too artistic for crass commercial concerns"
*Me:* :takes notes eagerly:
I love these "business of game dev" talks, especially when it's this kind of "school of hard knocks" experience. Even if you never play at the deep end of the pool (500K sales!), making a better pitch also helps you understand your game better, and how to better connect with your audience. Nothing improves without practice, and you've gotta be ready when that "golden pitch" opportunity comes along. Great talk (just a shame no time for Q&A).
if a game is "too artistic" to take notes from this talk, it will inevitably flop
This why I'd rather make a project myself. . . Too many factors that take away my creativity and such. Our Games never get noticed unless we have money. Nice to know. . .
The fact that the CEO of a publisher of a video game company doesn't actually play video games is just so????? it makes me not want to listen to anything that you have to say because it implies no personal passionate investment in end-user experiences.
Coming a little late, but damn, what a depressing talk.
I mean, yeah, what she says is probably true for many/most publishers, but coming here and saying "the industry is shit, I'm a piece of that shit, deal with it" is.. Thank you, I guess?
I'm pitching to a VIDEOGAME publisher, not to a random rich dude I met at a party.
I would say the minimum is that you know the basic videogame genres.
You may not be a gamer and not know what attributes like luck usually do in an RPG, but you can't not know what a roguelike is (and actually, she knows they exist but can't be bothered remembering what they are).
First time I was totally annoyed watching a GDC talk.
A good publisher should care about the game they're publishing.
If they don't even know the category they fit in, how can they even know if they want to publish it or not?
Oh well, I guess just leave it to the husband who sounds like the one actually doing something productive.
I feel you, this talk sounded so condesending and felt like she couldnt be bothered to actually care about games. Which is pretty weird when you are publishing games, if you dont understand the basics of the genre of what you are contributing to why are you marketing/publishing games.....
"I'm a game publisher", "I only played a 3d game once", "I can't figure if the prototype is good or not, but Adam can". Why didn't you bring Adam to do the talking ?
because its important to know what a publisher is and actually cares about, the fact that adam can do other things is irrelevant to the purpose of this talk.
I thought people that brag about the amount of unread emails in their inbox are not a thing anymore.
To be fair, I think that the industry's situation where 99% of indies sell 300~3000 copies isn't a sign of how competitive the industry is, but rather of how much it's filled with bad shovelware games.
100 percent agree. Too many similar games and very few new interesting ideas. Either "it's a game like (insert old game)" or another indie game trend.
Succeeding in the entertainment market is as about distinguishing your game from crap and quality alike. There are plenty of other ways people can spend their time & money - you're not just competing with Steam/mobile, you're also competing with Disney, Netflix, etc.
Making good games requires money and (lots of) time. Both of which are usually lacking (especially money) for the indie scene.
So the way the industry is organised is inefficient in the extreme, and alienating for its workers, the work of which is barely recognised. Huuuuge surprise (said no one ever).
I agree.
The lack of quality control on the main distribution platforms + the abundance of free engines, frameworks and tools are at the heart of that I believe.
I think this stupid indie fever will end in about 3-5 years because now everyone comes to an understanding that if you make a shit game you won't get any money
11:10 “Someone like YOU” okay wow, just called a room full of game devs adult children 😂
20:55 so that's supposed to be ugly ?
Wait what, since when is crafting a special word? It means the same as it always did, just in a different context but for the same goal.
It makes me doubt what she's trying to say after hearing such things.
the easier and quicker it is for the audience to understand the better, therefore the language being most commonly encountered wins. Crafting is not common and making or building, right?
This woman is why game developers should avoid publishers ie You should self publish, and if you want the marketing services a publisher provides, hire a marketer, on an hourly rate.
I follow what you’re saying. Have you had any experience in indie dev? I’d be eternally grateful if I could pic ur brain a tiny bit!
Lots of good information here, but I'm really hung up on the idea that people don't know, or even how to spell, very simple grade-school concepts such as "biome" and "crafting".
ikr
GDC talk equivalent of "How to get into the same situation as No Man's Sky"
Oh shit her husband made Canabalt? That's a genre defining game right there.
They're a really good team, yeah
This "regular person" she talks about. Where do I find this?
i didnt get the Double Finji thing
You know, Bouble Finji, DOUBLE FINE...
the slides aren't moving at about 24:56... she's talking about something else but the slides just stayed...
46:53 link she shares on screen
blog.adamatomic.com/post/172749451585/gdc-wrap-up-part-2-screenshot-theory-spring
Came looking for this! Lazy thanks!
Wow, she's not interested in prototypes (the thing that *proves* a concept), but she likes the low poly fox -.-
is finji still publishing?
The amount of people in this comment section that don’t understand what the heck publishers/publishing is and for, it’s limitation, pros cons and use case is staggering.
Well I do have a prototype, and I’m looking for talent and I’m willing to pay but I can’t seem to find the top talent. What should I do?
Are you still looking?
@@Taztriple Clearly not
ill wait for the publisher to pitch to me!
Industry is so drunks with money there is no professionalism like in any other media. If you get the money you are right. Pitching is a totally random process handled by random people with lot of theories. But hey, I saw a video about pitching where a guy said “do not come drunk” so on the dev side too level are low. Things are changing as the medium is evolving but man, is so sad.
Nah we are ready , you are not ready for all the amazing indie games you are missing out on publishing ....
Great talk
I personally don't find it insulting, but just because something has good intention doesn't make it not mean
Lol right. “I promise I’m not a dick, now excuse me while I be a ‘literal’ dick”
Pitch is only for investors or publishers, include NDA....
But the people of the investor and publisher should be addressed in such a way that any of them can easily understand and arouse their interest, be it a player or a non-player (cringe-publisher), a developer, or a journalist.
I think I don't get it .. whats wrong with "Dear, DOUBLE FINJI" ?
The misplaced comma bothers me.
Gonna be a prick here, but why do some talks have (relatively) edgy names to them? So, we are a small studio and we may fall into that category that does some aspects of pitching wrong, you really wanna grind that idea into us huh?
don't mind me
I really don't think you are the prick there. GDC is slightly becoming like TED in some aspects. But this is the typical case that you know nothing and they are much better than you. They are a noname company and they will stand there and lecture you on how you do everything wrong. I also have a small studio (about 20 people) and we had our experience with publishers but I cannot honestly say that this talk covers something that I really am unaware of. And just trying to judge objectively, this talk mostly covers the very basics of just your standard pitch deck process. USP, target audience, marketing ground, risks, estimation. Most of it is really basic stuff but you are not prepared and she KNOWS it apparently.
So that they are eye catching. Also she literally addresses her reasoning behind the title in the first 30 seconds of the video lol
Jicyphex M.O.D could you please tell us how hard it is to make a game? I want to make an RPG but I'm kinda overwhelmed by the GDD lol
It just a click bait title like "TEN THINGS YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT SONIC." Even though after watching it most people already know those ten things but by then you just finish watching the video and giving them ad money for it.
It's not about "u r doin it wrong" - it's how can you make your pitches better. Just like any decent GDC talk, it's about sharing experiences so that everyone (hopefully) ups their game a bit, improving the overall industry incrementally. If you are 100% fine with how you're doing things, that's fine, no one's twisting your arm.
I'm literally commenting on this right now.
FitnessEat lies, it was 7 minutes ago.
blog.adamatomic.com/post/172749451585/gdc-wrap-up-part-2-screenshot-theory-spring
the link she mentions at 46:44
I feel kinda bad now, as a indie thats not something I can afford
Screenshot Theory Link: blog.adamatomic.com/post/172749451585/gdc-wrap-up-part-2-screenshot-theory-spring
True mvp right here. thank you :)
great talk, thank you so much
Yes I am
Nobody is ready thats the problem
Her talk wasnt very motivating
Overlands prototypes looked so much better than the final game, especially the pixel art one.
Edit: The first trailer shown in this video is so much better than the one on steam currently.
Imagine needing a publisher
I stopped at "literally played games from supernintendo and never played a 3D game until my 20s" and "I dont have knowledge of everythiung that's been made...-" something like that. So what I get is that you evaluate game ideas but you were unaware of 3D games and not even play videogames? Only nintendo ? the company least userfriendly and most lawyer sharks there is? Maybe is not the best way to approach this kind of video, I started doubting all advice.
Literally... You keep using that word. That word does not mean, what you think it means.
With all due respect, m'lady, you should know better than anyone about the genres of the industry. It's your job afterall! Nice talk, btw.
Okay?!?! I thought I was a total jerk for wanting to point this out. It’s like when movie producers are like, “hey! Don’t expect us to like, KNOW movies, okkkk” getting game publishers SPOUSE vibes here
So basically, even if you're game is trash, you can get published because your pitch is perfect.
Anyone else annoyed by how often she says “Literally”?
Just you
@@tavarishamilton Right... I wish my life was so carefree that I could be petty enough to care how often someone says a word lol.
didnt even notice
Yes, she said it an extremely annoying 28 times!
@@seditt5146 So you think it’s petty to be annoyed by something? Is that why you took the time to comment on my Oc?
Publisher: “we don’t pay for prototypes because it isn’t cost effective.”
Dev: “I have to do it for free because I’m not an industry leech.”
A blue hair chick who doesn't play games is in charge of picking what games are to be published.... Just a thing i want to hear after working on a project for 3 years without a pay
shut up bruh 💀💀
>He thinks video games are picked by people who play video games at all
lol
Why would you do something as silly as building a game for 3 years before showing it to anyone?
Aviod blue haired woman.
Advice taken
Nice blue hair
I came here for a talk and ended up buying overland and a night in the woods on the spot.... Sigh....