Failing to Fail: The Spiderweb Software Way
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2018
- In this GDC 2018 talk, Spiderweb Software's Jeff Vogel presents a retrospective on his company's history and how they've managed to stay in the game-making business since 1994.
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Jeff: "We are not a household name"
Me: *tears up because I played Exile, Avernum and Nethergate growing up* "you're a household name in my household, Jeff."
FOR FUCKING REAL
Avernum is very much a household name in my house. My mom has played and beaten ALL of them!
awww
Aww :’)
As a newcomer to their catalogue (but not to fantasy RPGs), which game do you recommend I should try out first? And is it able to be purchased on Steam today?
@@corpsefoot758 For me personally, the 2000s-era Avernum games (1 through 3) will always be nearest and dearest to my heart, as I grew up playing the demos, and eventually purchased them on disk. But they do show their age, even if they're big on charm. However, the newest remake-series does them justice, and Avernum: Escape From the Pit is a fine game.
However, I can HIGHLY recommend Genforge 1. Even though I own all the geneforge games, 1 is the only one that I sat through on the way, and I'd say has the most compelling story. The remake, Geneforge 1: Mutagen is out, but I haven't played it yet.
The best part? All of these games have huge demos you can download for free from Spiderweb Software's website! You can try before you buy! And you can buy them on steam, too.
You gotta remember this man's company basically outlived million dollar companies that both started and ended during his company's lifespan.
Yo thats actually great though! damn
When you make games that only cost the money needed to buy the PC on which to build them, you can outlive any company. Spiderweb is a company that never took chances and never risked making any progress. It's a company that is run by a coward, who was happy to get paid with crumbs for wasting his life building sub-par RPGs. If he cared to actually evolve his games and skills as a programmer, so he can try to one day get to the big leagues... who knows? Maybe his company would have been huge now... or maybe he would have bankrupt by now. Instead, he settled for making the same exact game for 25 years... yes, 24 separate titles, only 1 game - that's the whole company in a nutshell.
@@Soulfly415 lmfaooo
@@Soulfly415but he’s successful? How does it matter if he didn’t innovate?
@@Soulfly415 He didn't abuse anyone like you are doing here. He shared his journey and insights with the industry there. He is doing something enjoyed by himself, and lots of players... So I'd say he is living a good life. While what have you achieved besides keeping the constants of human who is mean?
Can somebody let Jeff know I paid him in change in 94 because I was 14 and paid for it purely by myself.
You.. You bought it... Hope it was fun
yes. I paid for the original exile games.
I loved the demos but, being born in 91, was too young to ever buy the full versions =/
I couldn't even tell you how I got my hands on the demo's for them. I think I was on a mailing list of some kind for the second or third one perhaps.
But RPG's and particularly good rpg's were origionally mixed amongst the action adventure stuff. It was only the mid to late 90's that they really started becoming two separate genre's. But these were something I got for myself purely with my own money and I did enjoy them. For being little indy games they actually had a pretty good story to them and the play wasn't that bad for the time.
You viking
I saw 'Spiderweb Software' and thought "Why does that seem familiar"
Jeff shows list of games, of which I own half or so in my Steam library.
It's almost a superpower how low-key this company is.
@pUSSYcREAM wdym turds dude what's the problem
@pUSSYcREAM Are you hungry?
they're an amazing company. Was introduced with, like, Yahoo games or some shit, and fell in love. Geneforge and the first 3 Avernum games are fucking apex.
@@dansiepman9531 Hell yeah dude, played avernum when I was seven, my dad got it for me from a buddy from work or smth, and that's a large part of why I can speak English today, 17 years later. Geneforge 4 was my favourite, along with Avernum 3.
I played all of Geneforge. Absolutely love that universe
This man is the most grounded developer I've ever seen on a GDC talk.
@Dan Piper
I agree with this. I am not a developper, but really into games. From the talks I've seen he is down to earth and humble person. Being confident is good (like the Romanian guy who had a talk), but people who are grounded resonates with me more. I really liked this talk and I hope him luck with his business :)
He's an og
Hes so down to earth, hes dirt... in a good way.
I came down for comments section to write this. You sir, got my upvote.
Yeah - this guy rules. Glad he's been able to do what he loves for most of his life. Hope he's well.
"The whole point of grad school is to make your life so miserable that it forces you to decide to do something proper'' -Jeff Vogel, 2018
"Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics, because the world needs much more of that." I can't tell whether this was sarcasm, because he seemed serious when he said it, but then follows it up with the point of grad school is to make you miserable statement.
@@cryora He has a masters in Applied Math and dropped his Phd when his first game sold.
@@Acrid93 Still doesn't explain whether he actually believes the world needs much more Applied Mathematicians or if he was being sarcastic.
@@cryora Six of one, half a dozen the other.
@@XanthinZarda 50/50?
It never ceases to both amaze me and make me laugh that Spiderweb's probably the only studio I know who to this day has semi frequently people emailing them, apologizing for having pirated the games in the past and having since then bought them with real money. If memory serves, their last kickstarter even had a supporter tier where you would be able to get a signed Scroll of Forgiveness lol.
That's amaaaaazing hahahahahahahaha I love this guy
This video amongst all other GDC videos is the hugest inspiration to me. It's a man who's lived the life of making video games as an indie developer. No viral success, no fancy publishers, no scummy tactics, just honest hard work, and he has the years to prove it. He's not a younger guy with only a few years under his belt that might end up giving up on indie. This guy has been in it for the long haul.
I mentioned in my initial comment that I first played his games when I was 13, I am now 35 and I still have lasting memories of both the company's commitment to excellence and top-notch customer service.
100 percent agree! I love this guy and want to buy all his games!
I think I got a shareware copy of avernum as a teen in the 2000s when it was hard to find rpgs on Macs and it really started my love of text heavy weird niche rpgs. it's cool to find out he's still doing it and seems like a pretty decent guy
Been trying to get my friends to play Exile III for like 20 years now lol. I remember a few years ago I found a youtube video of a guy trying it out and some of his decisions before the game even really started had me up the wall I had to stop watching.
If you don't think graphics are essential his Avernum games are really good RPGs too. Awesome original and rich open world. Lots of exploring to do. And don;t get me wrong, it's pretty good looking, again, if you like pixel art over hyper realistic 3d graphics.
I really like the Spiderweb games because the non busy graphics give my mind actual room to imagine what's going on. I'm not even that old, just 28, so it's not a nostalgia thing. It's just nice to not have every game telling me what everything looks like all the time.
Ive had the same experience. Its more book-like and much more vivid.
I've been playing on a PS4 for the past seven years, I've recently built a PC and was revisiting FF 1 and I had the same feeling, it's really nice in a way, and it's hard to explain to people who don't get it because they'll feel you're just making excuses
The real-feeling world also creates a lot of space for imagination. You can easily think about all kinds of plots within those worlds.
Space for imagination and all that.
This guy's sense of humor is right up my alley, makes me kind of sad that a lot of his jokes fell flat with the audience. Keep on being awesome!
Bit late to this, but also the mic doesn't pick up the audience well (intentionally) so it could have been that people were laughing we just didn't hear :)
its also because half the audience is gamers and devs, the other half are investors. the investors dont have a sense of humor.
I see his humor as a "smile and nod" kind of wit.
Don't worry on my behalf. The jokes got good laughs. The microphone just isn't picking it up. (It was set up to only pick up my voice, as it should be.)
@@spiderwebsoftware1 Really?! That's great, then. Makes me feel better.
I want to be like this guy when I grow up. Having a small company, being a humble toy maker, but still being able to support myself and my family, I want that
May you gain more than your dreams.
Speculative capitalism stands in direct opposition of your dreams of being a craftsman. Unless you grow constantly, you are always at risk.
haha, well you definitely have a bigger platform to work on then he did. He had to build his own game engine and manually port the games to mac and window and physically package his games. And assets were not easy to come by. Now you have indie markets on steam, ps4, and xbox. And open source game engines like unreal, godot, unity, etc. And the internet with unlimited support. When I was young I wanted to be a game developer but the resources to learn were extremely difficult outside of college. I turned out to be a self taught programmer and made a few web games but I wish I pushed harder where I could do it for a living. Im still haven't gave up though. And my passions have blessed me in a industry that pay more then average and I dont even have a degree. So even if you aren't successful as a indie developer, you will atleast learn a high paying skill. Its a win win.
@@numerical25 Just to clarify so there won't be any misunderstandings and legal issues for anyone. Unreal and Unity are not open source. Neither of those have been released with any open source license. They have very strict licenses on what you can and cannot do with the source code. Just because you can access source code, doesn't mean you can treat it like any OSS code!
@@jd89 Yeah My Mistake Unity is not Open Source but Unreal Engine is 100% open source and so is Godot. Unreal isn't MIT licensed if thats what you meant but Godot is license under MIT with 0% royalties as well as 100% open source. I myself have played with Unreals Source which can be found here github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine Cheers!
7:25 "I am older than the art form in which i work."
Man, that's deep thoughts there and he isn't 10 minutes into the talk. A real wise man here.
It’s true of any social media marketer though
@@Brainstrain it's not an art and craft in the same way game development is, but i get your point.
@@Brainstrain Not really, social media has been around since computer BBSes in the 1980s. Or since AOL in the early 90s. Plenty of ppl born after that in this business.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves. Daddy is home!"
-Jeff Vongel
Just out of context, sounds strong enough for me.
If you are an Indie, save your time and stop watching anything about motivational stuff on UA-cam NOW.
Watching this guy's talk once a month will keep you going.
he teaches hard lessons, though. this point is easily seen by watching the QA portion of the video, which is just basically people making him repeat things he already went over just 20 minutes earlier
Motivation shit is bait anyways. So is 'empowerment' stuff which is basically 'how to be a [redacted] to everyone to so you can spread our books more'
@@mimszanadunstedt441 No way bro! I'm dedicated to the grind now! I get up in my mansion and make an epic power breakfast for like three hours a day because I'm 26 and started my own company and then won the lottery so I have a cool car and my wife or girlfriend is still really hot because she's a couple years younger than I am, AKA early 20s. Now listen to my wisdom and send me money.
@@foreignuser_ I was like "wait, which one was the Quality Assurance portion?" 😅
Sent Jeff a check back in 95 for Exile: Escape from the Pit, it was an RPG worth every penny. Sorry for calling you on a Sunday Jeff.
It sure was, and I paid $9 for the editor too just to have fun breaking the game once I beat it. I elected to send him a personal check instead though :P.
Tell me you paid in pennies
I would love to see an updated version of the original Exile that is playable on current systems. I've used dos box but I swear I would pay good money for a version I could just play.
60 hours of content in Exile 3? I swear I put upwards of 300 into it. Played that game until windows 7 told me to stop. Jeff puts such heart into his games it's hard not to love them instantly.
I think he meant there was 60 hours of content in just the Exile 3 shareware demo. Having played it myself I'd say that claim is legit. I remember making it as far as the island with the talking spiders just on the demo.
@gorgonheap
I can't believe more people aren't talking more about this game specifically here out of all places in the Internet right now. I have played that game for over 15 years (off and on) and it is huuuuuge. I can never ever get bored of it and the demo was so huge as well.
In fact I was elated when I found out I could download the entire series officially for free and have it run on my Windows 10. I have a PS4 and there are a lot of games in it with beautiful graphics and innovative mechanics but none of them scratch that classic itch of landing an assassinating blow on a vampire while crawling in a dungeon for hours with diminishing light sources at the same time being outnumbered and underleveled.
Massive, massive respect to him programming such a large and entertaining game with so few resources that's kept me hooked for years.
Haha, love it. Did you use dosBox or compatibility mode?
@@timothyhale5181 When I was a kid I played Exile 3 so much I didn't even realize it was a demo. There was so much content I assumed I had the full game
@@JD.......... Personally, up until the year this video was released. I kept a windows 98 thinkpad laptop around to play. Sadly, after +20 years, the motherboard decided it had had enough and crapped out. Now I use Doxbox running win 95
Probably one of the best talks on game development ever recorded.
100% agree! This was profoundly insightful and motivating
This and Chris Crawfords Dragon Speech are amazing!
Its difficult to find gold like this, so if anyone has anything similar to recommend, I'll gladly swallow it up.
I came to the comments to say something like this. Out of all the game dev UA-cam videos i've watched lately, this one Speaks to Me the most
@@f2c7f88 Mick Gordon - Behind Doom music GDC talk
My third time watching it and I agree
Got a lot of respect for this dude.
Someone should make a documentary about this guy. He's so entertaining and likeable.
@@Silver-fh4fb Noclip is your guy if you can get the funding up.
Jeff Vogel is the cool old dude I hope I am in 30 years.
I've watched a lot of GDC videos. This is top 10 easily.
Absolutely agreed. This has been a very interesting watch.
Can you recommend some others? There are so many videos, so if you have a top 10 list, it'd be a great place to start!
@@EricBrill These arent all GDC vids and they might not all be something you're into but try these ua-cam.com/play/PL46xDxiEMVwaJ0FSe5yrnjLeeHFEeBUhT.html
Eleven years without a hit = another decent gdc video in a similar vein.
I agree
What are the rest of the top 10 do you think?
Mark Rosewater's 20 lessons is right up there too.
Jeff, you're an absolute madman for thinking you could make a one-man dev team with online distribution your primary venture back in the 90s. You're an even bigger one for pulling it off. I salute you, good sir.
We need a talk from Jeff about the process of coming up with the story for Exile/Avernum and writing, managing to make an RPG world deep and engaging enough for 3 different iterations of the same trilogy to be worthwhile is quite an achievement.
I think you'll enjoy this talk he made in 2012: ua-cam.com/video/uKjJD1JPAPE/v-deo.html
@@SharonLougheed Miss many many thanks for your link. It's from small gestures as yours that the world keeps growing. Please, never change!
I've been a fan of the Exile series (now called Avernum) ever since I was a little boy. Thank you, Jeff Vogel, for your games. They were part of what inspired me to become a fantasy writer.
EDIT: Damn, it's kind of insane to realize this, but I bought games from you with a check in the mail. You or your wife were probably the ones who opened the letter, took the check, cashed it -- then sent me a package with CDs and a booklet in it. All of which I still have today. Insane, huh?
Ah, the good ol' days :)
I own several Spiderweb Software games. Great to know the brains behind the creativity!
What a guy...
I always thought it was a small team, but I didn't know it was only 3 people most of the time.
great games. he's an awesome guy too it seems
"The whole point of grad school is to make your life so miserable that it forces you to decide to do something proper." As someone going through grad school right now, truer words have never been spoken.
31:52
"...If someone is on the forums and you can see that they are just there to cause trouble - BAN THEM.
If people are making a noise:"That person who is screwing up your business - you shouldn't have banned them!" - BAN THEM TOO.
*The beatings will continue until morale improves! DADDY IS HOME!* "
I unironically laughed at this moment.
I paused the video and stopped watching at that point, I can't support someone who supports blatant censorship.
If they aren't breaking the rules and you just disagree with what they're asking you to do you shouldn't abuse your power and ban them. According to him they were there "just to cause trouble", but that's a label he made up and has no way of proving.
He didn't realize that he had another option in this situation, acting like an adult and leaving the conversation, instead he abused his status and wiped them off of his forum just because his feelings got hurt, now I know the difference between the older generations and the younger ones, the older generation never learned of the damage censorship causes and how blatantly immature abusing your power and censoring someone is.
@@Axodus I can't be sure without seeing an example, but he looks like he can tell the difference between legitimate criticism and trolling. He also seems like he would admit when he has made an error, and fix it.
@@Axodus that's not censorship, that's deplatforming, you can still shit on him and his games if you want, just not on the forum he runs.
@@BigChiken44 turn off DoF.
@@BigChiken44 I know I'm late to the party, but why not read player reviews? You say you listen to players' problems, but not their solutions. Aren't reviews revealing said problems among the playerbase (to an extent), explicitly without solutions appended? I hope it works out for you, but that entire part just doesn't sound very cohesive.
A good example of this might be Stoneshard (at the moment anyway), but it's the exact opposite. Players say there are problems x and y, but the hardcore crowd doesn't even acknowledge those issues (well, they're purists anyway. By the looks of it they're the minority as well). Ultimately, developers should make the games they want to make, whether they pander to a certain audience or not.
As a fan of the Geneforge games, who still wants more of that universe, this man is awesome as a designer. Wish the best for him. Also, he looks almost exactly as I figured he would.
I like this guy.
He admits how blessed he was to even be able to learn programming when he did and be able to buy a computer at that time.
He openly admits that his starting success came from a lucky break.
He admits there is much hard work in what he did, but also openly admits how much of his success came from other factors.
I like this guy.
Some of my takeaways:
1. Everybody told him his art sucked. So he hired people, he made efforts
to have nice art in his game. The result? Everybody told him his art sucked.
He stopped listening to people so much after that.
2. If an icon looked nice in the previous game, it will look nice in the next game too.
3. He reuses assets as much as he possibly can. Everyone makes fun of him
because of it. But, he is still in business.
4. He makes a lot of remasters. He makes remasters of remasters. If a game
was fun 10 years ago, it will still be fun today. Be proud of your old projects.
5. His process is this: take the one best thing of every game he loves, and make a game
from it. He makes games that he wants to play. That's his creative process. (in Halo 5,
that is also MY creative process. It works and I enjoy doing it. Maybe I should stop
worrying so much and just start doing whatever it is that I want.)
6. Real artists SHIP.
7. We're in the entertainment business. Novelty matters. You need to find a few things
that make your new game slightly different than your last. If your player feels "Ah, been
there, done that." your game won't be successful. Throw some novelty in, and showcase
it right at the beginning.
8. Real artists SHIP.
9. After about a year or year and a half, or when you get tired of working on your game, it's
time to ship it or take a break ("do a Hemingway"). You need to think long term. If it will make you quit game
development, you need to ship it or cancel it. Do you see yourself still making games in
20 years? Make sure you keep loving it.
10. Don't be proud of not sleeping enough. Sleep matters. Get your sleep.
11. Buy a good chair. Your back will thank you for it in 20 years.
12. Real artists SHIP.
The art he bought sucked. For the amount he spent he could have gotten far far better.
@@patnor7354 can't buy good taste lol
I think you forgot something, Real artists SHIP.
@@patnor7354 Well, he could certainly use better assets, but it doesn't matter.
Because REAL nice stuff would look out of place in his games.
And stuff that is "just" better wouldn't change the opinion of those that complained about bad artwork, neither would the already happy fanbase care enough to justify the effort.
"When I get terrified, I work harder" is a work ethic I need to adopt...
I came back to this for the "Don't be afraid to fire a customer" line, but forgot about the "The beatings will continue until morale is restored!" XD Absolute solid gold
funny thing I pirated his game and I liked, so I bought it. I guess he was right about that.
piracy increases sales, regardless of what the "authorities" say. anime, movies, games, doesn't matter. always increases sales without fail.
@@darkdogzstudioz Exactly. Most piracy isn't a lost sale, because they were never going to buy it in the first place.
I pirated the entire Avernum series and a few geneforge games back in the days before I had a disposable income. Still some of the most memorable RPGs I've ever played.
I have since bought his entire library multiple times both directly and on Steam/GOG. Many of the purchases are still unplayed. Bought mostly just because I seriously respect the guy and his dedication, and to make up for past sins.
@@calamariaxo I did the same thing with Geneforge. I bought all 5 in a bundle! Love that game, still playing through the 5th one for the third time.
@@calamariaxo i pirated his games when i was a teenager on 2005, ever since i got a job i bought every game he had, and now i buy everything he launches, because he alredy gave me the fun worth out of it.
"ooouuuh punch cards! My first computer was a cinder block with a keyboard duct taped to it!"
My God, he is a legend. A humble guy with a life-long independent project.
"If I've been working on a game for about a year and a half, I either need to ship it or do a Hemingway."
Out of all the things he was known for, I love that "do a Hemingway" can only mean one thing.
as a guy that doesn't know much about hemingway, I ask "what does he mean?"
@@SpaceMissile Still no answer
@@USBEN. I cri 😭
@@SpaceMissile Bruh i googled it. It comes from a author who wrote some famous book after travelling the world and having many sexual encounters. Lol.
@@USBEN. ahhh... Internet points for you
Geneforge is my favorite game/game series. I also love the Exile/Avernum games.
I first played a Spiderweb game on a demo-disk that had like 300 different demos from different games. It was Exile 3's demo, with the cheats. I loved it, but had no idea where to get the full game.
Later on I found an online game store, like an early Steam, that had the Geneforge 1 and 2 demos. I loved them, but couldn't convince my parents to buy them for me at the time.
I would later get the whole collection from Spiderweb's website, and when the CD broke during a move I re-bought them on Steam. I have no regrets. I love the series, I enjoy most Spiderweb games, and gladly give them my money. Because they make things I enjoy. Mostly.
sometimes i just rewatch this talk cuz this guy makes me happy
He's like Jack Blacks' other brother nobody knew. So down to earth with exuberating wisdom for obvious reasons. Love it!
I forgot that I had to mail a check for his early games. I am glad he is still doing what he loves.
I have bought seven copies of Avernum: Escape From the Pit. And bugged friends to buy three more themselves. That was my introduction to Spiderweb Software. It is a truly excellent RPG; one of my favorite games period. I respect the hell out of this man and his advice is so good.
i went to buy a friend Avernum after seeing this....and saw i'd already bought it for him :( so i bought him genforge :P
I first played the Exile games on a shareware disc back in the 90's that I got for a Christmas present and was hooked. I've been playing Spiderweb stuff off and on since then. He's definitely not lying when he says that his demos are incredibly long. Each felt like complete games to me as demos, and I was so happy when I finally got a job and could afford to experience the full games many years later. It's so great to get to hear the guy who gave me so many hours of entertainment and inspiration talk about his career and craft. Even if I didn't know who he was, this would have still been a great talk for me though. Great job!
Same here! I bought the game via snail mail and loved it. God, there isn't a lot I wouldn't give to get that shareware disk back!
Found Exile on one of those CDs he mentioned, 1998 or whenever - "1000 Windows Games" etc. Thoroughly enjoyed it in the way you're supposed to enjoy hidden gems, hidden away as they are.
Me too. Did you get a games such as Microman? SuperHer? Castle of the Winds? Quenzar Caverns?
@@fullup91 Castle of the Winds ended up in some version of Windows 98, probably part of the Entertainment Pack. Played a lot of that before I knew about the roguelike genre itself. The rest, I dunno, probably. Exile was the only lasting memory I took away from those things.
@@escapee909909 awesome. I played tons of castle, too. Although, probably like you, only Exile really managed to imprint itself upon my imagination.
Same here!!! Wow
I remember that, I'd love to know what the disc is actually called so I can go and buy another of them, the one I remember had a 'eye' made of gold on it. There were so many good games on it I want to find a copy which isn't scratched up.
Jeff Vogel is one of my favourite humans
ME 2 Thats Legit!!!
Yup, feels like a father or grandfather to me.
I didn't know who he was... and realistically I won't be seeing him live anytime soon.
This video is sort of a beautiful tragedy :(
I actually heard of these guys before. I am looking forward to the time the games industry is ready for more companies like this one. It'd be a much healthier industry for sure.
spiffy comment
Exile Escape from the Pit was a big part of my teenage years. I was one of the kids that got a shareware copy in the 90s and fell in love with Exile. I just got a little time and started playing Queen's Wish 2 which led me to this video. Jeff you are a household name in my home. Thank you for all the great memories.
That sleep cycle... that's me. I'm 33, I'm a solo indie game dev, that is when I sleep and I love this guy for throwing it out there.
Wish Jeff had an Udemy course. Sounds like a great teacher.
Back in 1996 I had to get a Mac for work and there were only a few games for MacOS. The Spiderweb Software games were ubiquitous back then. This is a blast from the past.
I love how he added the admonition against staying up late to "be more productive." I've found from experience that it just doesn't work out that way, and there's a rapidly growing body of scientific studies to confirm it. Sleep is important and getting proper sleep will make you not just happier, but more productive and successful in the long run.
As someone who has played many of his games from the original Exile, it came as no surprise that @4:50 Jeff Vogel revealed he was fascinated by mazes at an early age. ;p
Exile III was one of the first games I played on windows, and I'm a huge a fan of Spiderweb Software! It's lovely to know the person behind it all is so nice and insightful :D
That is ironic, I would say that Spiderweb's presence on the Mac is the reason they are still around. Bungie and Spiderweb are the names Mac gamers know. They probably made the first and only games anyone has ever played on Mac OS (classic) :)
As a very early indie dev....this was honestly like, the most timely and inspiriting thing. Just randomly found it. Thank you, Jeff Vogel. Really appreciate your insight, humor, and candor.
Oh wow, Spiderweb, there's a blast from the past. Back when I was kid I learned basic maths from doggedly puzzling out the stats screens in Nethergate. It's genuinely lovely to see them still around.
Jeff Vogel is always a joy to listen to. Good guy, good company.
It's great to see one of the companies you saw growing up and still around and keeping up with the curve. Spiderweb software games are still my go to when I just don't want to deal with the nuisance of "multiplayer" and how games are nowadays. Once a classic, always a classic.
Who here watched this and then proceeded to buy the entire collection during the steam summer sale? Absolutely fell in love with his games and incredible advice. I'm not even a game dev, but an electronic musician.
"Have you ever looked at your hands?" :-D
That reminds me of the TED talk parody heh
Favorite quote so far: "When I pressed the upload for my first game I was ... WASTED". Hahaha!
Also "How do you keep your morale up?". Him: "Methamphetamine".
I have never seen a speaker that wasn't nervous in one way or another. This dude is so comfortable and relaxed, it is mind boggling. Great talk!
shaking hands but almost nobody noticed
Relaxed? Lmao.
@@rogercruz1547 I mean, it could of old age.
maybe some progressive screwdriver in the water bottles? Great talk, but he sounds a lil surly :)
He sounded nervous to me. Even had trembling hands. We can’t really assume either way though.
This guy has had a 40 year career in the games industry without getting burnt out to a crisp, respect.
I have fond memories of the exile series. You develop strange habits such as trying to go through every wall just in case.
And always clicking on every potted plant :)
I discovered Exile 1: Escape from the Pit through that Macworld demo disc. I played the crap out of that demo, since I couldn't convince my parents to send in $25 to buy the game outright ("Hello again Shareware Demon, just passing by"). Now I've replayed the remake Avernum and thoroughly enjoyed it. Also, shoutout to Jeremy Parish for interviewing him years ago on Retronauts which is what reminded me to pick up Avernum.
Omg EXILE was my childhood, hundreds of hours well spent. I wanted to play it so bad I put together a cheap as computer from spare parts, the game took up 90% of the hard drive I loved that game so much
Exile I, II and III helped me get through my chaotic childhood. I remember saving up my allowance to order the CD and character editor and it came in a cool big envelope with a printed game guide. Unfortunately my parents threw this away so I no longer have it. So many fun memories of killing mauve slimes and cave roaches, getting super excited when finding a secret wall in a dungeon map. This game has as many fun memories for me as playing Zelda Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII. It was just as influential on my childhood as best selling games and soo much fun! I appreciate you Jeff! Such a positive impact even if you don't realize it.
Jeff, I've played your games since I was 11 (am 27 now) after finding your Blades of Exile on a disc that also included a Might & Magic game. I played your game for many endless hours thinking it to be one of the most amazing things. I disctinctly recall naming characters after those from the Wheel of Time series. I wouldn't be until college that I found out you were still making games, and had many of them on steam. So I picked up many of them there (and I think some on gog too).
Oh man, Exile influenced the language and memes of my friends and I from elementary through high-school.
I'll still make the coughing sound when you get poisoned or the death sound effects... Or say HI like the talking spiders... Much love!
I still occasionally think of the monster shouts when enemies spot you.
I remember having one of those 1000 games CDs back when I was really young, and the only game worth playing on there was a demo Exile 3. I didn't even realize it was a demo it had so much in the game and I loved it so much. I didn't have the money back then but I found them when I got older and bought all of their games on Steam. I love Spiderweb Software and clicked this video as soon as I saw he made it. This guy rules. Keep doing what you do because you are great at it and make great games. I really don't think I was the only one to watch the video because we recognized your studio name.
This guy introduced me to my first real rpg. I've been in love with the genre ever since.
I have seen these games for the last decades and always been amazed that they could stick around for so long and now I am even more impressed by this talk. Only missed one thing that perhaps was too obvious: Dogfooding.
As in eating your own dog food.
"Don't let anyone shame you out of being cheap.". I spent my life bargain hunting and keeping an eye on prices, I couldn't imagine criticizing a developer for doing the same. Also good assets are good assets throwing in the trash to never be used again is stupid. I mean if you designed a new asset and like it better by all means use it, but never be afraid of reusing it, it's a good asset.
I emailed support on their site a month ago, and he was the one who replied (unless there's another Jeff working there).
i'm 13 minutes in and i already trust this dude with my life.
A very down-to-Earth speaker that's easy to listen to and discusses very real things very simply because he had the years to process it all and willing to share it to the next generation. I might actually start a path in game development because of this. He's that inspirational.
I was 12 in 1995 when Exile came out. I played it at my uncle's house because we didn't have a computer at mine that would run it. I only played the free stuff because I had no money, and following my uncle's footsteps, I hex-edited the crap out of my saves. I still think about that, being a senior software engineer to this day, and how formative it must have been. Since he started remaking them, I have been picking up the full versions of the Avernum games as well as the Avadon games. Glad he's still doing okay. :)
Did you have great "friends" who you only really visited to play games on their computers? I realized looking back at all my best friends at school from the late 1980s to the mid-1990s were selected largely because of the games and computers they had. Of course, I liked them personally and I'm sure (I hope!) they enjoyed my company, but still... Then I seemed to go through a reclusive phase once I had my own PC... hmmm. I always loved Ultima so much that I played every clone I ever saw, but Avernum was the only one that really made something original out of the basic idea. Still an excellent story arc to this day, really - and the sequels were much more consistent than the sadly flawed later Ultima games.
"we are the likable ones"
"If they write bad things, ban them"
This dude is killing me! I love him
Likable to people that matter, ruthless to time-wasting, entitled trolls
Sounds like the AAA Industry when they told their core customer to not buy their games, and then they actually didn't
He can not only afford to cater to a very specifoc nieche, he needs to. The loud minority is his entire costumer base, and so his games have been following the same formula, which is just good practice when your distribution plan doesnt involve ahipping over a million copies.
I finished the first Geneforge, not the remake, and it was phenomenal. I proceeded to buy a lot of Spiderweb's games, just haven't gotten around to playing them.
This man is absolutely awesome and honest. I envy people like him for their relentless pursuit of dreams. Keep on doing what you are doing, Mr. Vogel.
Exile on a share-ware CD was my first western RPG, i loved the demos but never got enough pocket money to buy'em. So i was happy when i found them freeware. Sadly it's too hard to get them working on modern computers! Thanks for the Avernum remakes!
This talk is the most inspiring one i've watched in ages, if not ever. He makes games, but spreads true wisdom. I'm in a pretty dark place right now, and he, as a "toy maker" as he said, really blew the clouds for a moment.
I just love the fact his games look like something that was made on a Linux desktop in the 90s
Never played any of his games, but I respect what he's been able to accomplish over the years. Good for him for doing it his way and succeeding.
This guy is amazing, been watching GDC talks all day and this one was really epic.
I remember getting my grandmother to use her once a month game credit from real arcade on Geneforge back in 2005. I was hooked on Spiderweb from age 9.
Omg I used Real Arcade too! I felt like the only one who got the games that way forever lol
Theres a part of me thats still 13 years old and WISHES with all his heart...that he got to work with Spiderweb, a company I didnt know existed until this video.
Not going to lie. I return to these videos once every 6 months or so because his talks are awesome.
daaaaaaaaaaaaamn this is one of the best speeches i''ve ever listened to
This is one of the best business talks I've seen in a long time, quite apart from the games industry context.
Oh man, I remember playing one of this guy's demos waaaaay back in the day believing it was the full game, only to get a "thanks for playing the demo" message after a dozen hours or so
I remember playing Exile 3 in the Christmas of '97 very fondly. So great to see Jeff Vogel give this talk.
"We released this in 1995"
Bro you have been making games longer than I have been alive. Respect.
"own your code" after unity hits in your balls sounds so much wiser
One of my favorite talks, Jeff clearly shows his wisdom and experience well, I could listen to him all day
I remember playing one of the Exile demos way back in the day and loving it. Had no idea the company was still going. Amazing talk.
I never got into his games (a bit too hardcore for me), but by gods, this is one of the best GDC talks I've seen. Hell, this talk passed the pee test! Gotta run, though...
Easily in the top-5 GDC talks I've ever listened to.
I've been playing his games all my life. I'm always happy to see Jeff doing well.
It touches my heart how genuine, humble and down to earth this man is. A precious GDC talk.
Great Talk, thanks Jeff and GDC. Very entertaining and informational!
"The beatings will continue until morale improves" get this man a medal
I've got some of the Spiderweb games on Humble Bundle and I've played a few, not my stuff, but their style and dialog are really endearing to me for no apparent reason. I never knew the company was that small and I never knew the found/developer/almost everything/ was such a cool guy. This talk is one of the best I've seen on GDC, I wish all the luck for the next games coming out of Spiderweb.
To add on what he says, I've been graduating in Computer Engineering and we have strong ties with Computer Science in my College, we share the same buildings, a lot of the course is similar apart from the later parts and there's this thing about not getting enough sleep and being proud of it that always saddens me when I hear it. I was lucky enough to work with really diverse people from other majors and I've had an eye-opening experience about doing too many things and getting sleep deprived because of it and it's great to hear this sir talking about it, you shouldn't be proud of not getting enough sleep. It's horrifying to know that the Game Development Industry is rilled with people being overworked until burnout and I'm glad the discussion is being brought up by people inside the industry.
Spiderweb's games were incredibly formative for me as a Mac kid. A great talk!
This guy is my virtual mentor. I'm trying to make a living creating games and need his wisdom.