I wonder if WotC uses the sword and board Champion for their baseline for damage? It would make sense given its simplicity and how it is a basic rules subclass.
Its so funny you and Dungeon Dudes both came out with these videos, because a week before i was trying to craft a Swords Vard and considered some amount of Hexblade to help. When i saw their video i said "oh, great, everyone is gonna think i was making it cause of this video" Now im just convinced that we're all just being fed the same dreams.
This is true optimization. That's because you are constraining yourself by optimizing a concept and not just hand picking powerful options. In this case the concept is "Heroic Longsword User". This is another reason to steer clear of poisoner. Thanks, I hope we get to see a few more videos like this with other concepts.
@@jacobjensen7704 that's completely true. But when you see people like Pact Tactics talking about how their crossbow is a shortbow, or gun, or whatever, it kinda takes me out of it. And then to insinuate that all other weapons/builds aren't worth playing because "duh bonus action attack" not even realizing the huge BA economy available. Sorry for rant 😮💨
@@dominicl5862 yeah, I can see reskinning to make something better if something is super weak, but I can also see not liking it. I kinda like Treantmonk's idea in the first longsword video of polearm master being for longswords (attacking with the butt of the weapon) since that does make way more sense than attacking with the butt end of a polearm.
@@jacobjensen7704There is actual historical precedent for this, even going as far as armored knights grabbing the sword by the blade and hitting them the crossguard or butt of the sword. This was usually done when facing someone else with plate armor, as the focused force was able to do some crushing damage on the person below the armor. This is also why a lot of polearms used in the late medieval period had some form of hammer-style piece on them.
Glad you didn't abandon this build. It's always great to have more commentary on an idea. What you bring to the table is different from what others bring. And new takes on the same build open up more options to create a character you'll really enjoy playing.
I really like this build actually, because you can do essentially everything. You are kind of the ultimate sort of utility character especially if you pick your skills and even maybe tool proficiencies with your background right. You'll never outshine a more dedicated character, but just the ability to contribute and usefully contribute in pretty much any scenario the game can bring up? Very appropriate for a bard I think
This was a great video. I like more general optimized builds, but I love optimized concept builds. Personally I'd also like to see you take a crack at two weapon fighting in a similar way. Much like the iconic longsword, a warrior going into battle with a weapon in each hand is a much beloved and desired fantasy that's woefully unsupported by the current mechanics.
agreed. I did that build with a swords bard and the dual fighting fighting style and again this fantsay isnt good supported by the current dnd rouls; but a fantsy many of us have in their heads. i got my dm to grant my the second atack with my wapon always and not only once with my single bonus action i have per turn even thogh i have 2 atacks around ( not much of a dmg buff since bards never get tripple atack as a warrior but atlest it felt better;))
I thought it was funny. I watched the D dudes video already and I was playing around with it. I went with a Hexblade 1/ Lore Bard Using booming Blade and taking Spirit Guardians and Spiritual weapon at lvl 7 and you could pick up a fighting style Feat, but I went with a Spear/shield with the Polearm Master Feat. It's pretty versatile. Always good to see her take on builds Thank you
Slashing flourish is not limited to one extra creature, so if you are surrounded by lots of low AC/low HP targets, it can be useful as a small AoE damage dealer, in addition to focusing your main attack on one target.
cool video idea. I know you like build challenges and I got one for you. So at my table, we use the following rules from the DMG: - Gritty Realism (the big game changer) - Slow Natural Healing - Healer's Kit Dependency - Healing Surge (regular action variant, not bonus), still requires a use of a Healer's Kit - Flanking - Facing - Extra Combat/attack options (Marking, Cleaving through creatures, disarming, climbing on top of monsters, Tumble, Ect.) - Injuries - Massive Damage - Spell Points (I give my players the option to chose this or Spell Slots, although, they've all switched to Spell points and ive found that new players understand points easier than slots) - Variant Encumbrance (in the PHB) - Moral (Use Honor score instead of Charisma) - We also use Honor/Sanity but you shouldn't have to worry about that. it just adds 6 extra pints to spend when doing point buy. Those ability scores just fill in some gaps and keep Wisdom and Charisma from being catch-alls. Here's a couple Notes based on things we've noticed: 1 - This doesn't nerf Full casters at all. It just gives short rest based classes more time to shine. Spells become more magical and less of an everyday thing as cantrips will get a lot more use as with Concentration based spells. Gotta get the most out of your Spell! 2 - Effects that change long rests are switched to short rest, Trance, Sentries rest, ect. 3 - Exhaustion now recovers on a short rest and the one Ranger ability that let's them recover Exhaustion now just let's them recover an extra level. Easy-peasy 4 - Healing Word no longer gets casts nearly as much because dropping to 0 HP inflicts an injury. Strength is also no longer a viable dumpstat as its needed for carry weight which in turn, keeps Dex from being the go to. 5 - Again, we have found that doesn't nerf any full casters at all, just gives other classes more value. Different weapons and armor get used based on what the character can carry and use at effective movement speeds. 6 - Lastly, my players have found these rules from the DMG more enjoyable and claim that it is healthy for the game. it makes balancing encounters easy along with challenging players at high levels super easy. Because long rests are not guaranteed and you tend to go around 30+ days without a long rest, much planning must be done on the players' side. Character death is also very relevant and very real even at high levels. Thank you for reading this far and I'd love to see your thoughts!
all content is good content. thanks for posting this video and all of your work you put in. I work night shift and long-form discussions like this are my favorite thing to listen to.
I actually like your warlock baseline damage comparison. Not just because it's a easy build, but because it can also do a lot more. That warlock could cast a counterspell, or drop hex for a Hypnotic Pattern or whatever. The point is though, that if you're a martial who can't do any of that, and you're basically equalling the warlock with a pretty minimal effort build... then what are you doing? It's different if you're playing a support role - maybe you went Battle Master and took Commanding Shout and other types of maneuvers designed not really to increase your damage but rather help the party. Or your goal was to occupy and deny space - maybe a Sentinel build with Reach weapons. But if you're playing a ranged damage dealer and you are competitive with the warlock spamming EB most fights, but also summoning the odd creature, or countering some spells, or throwing down some CC or heck, even a fireball if they're pact of the fiend or whatever, then that's just not a very strong build. You're a dedicated martial. You should be well above that baseline, which is why I like it so much AS a baseline.
I played this on westmarches for over a year. Its amazingly fun to play. Used a halfling for lucky as it's one of the few times you can combat without a heavy weapon
I never gave the swords bard much love but as you made it here it seems really strong. Glad you stayed true to the concept of mainly using the longsword. Great video as always.
IF you can use Fizban's Treaury of Dragons at your table, Draconic Transformation is busted. You can summon and mount any steed, and then cast Draconic Transformation, giving both you and your steed a 6D8 bonus action 60 foot cone. Also whilst your mount can't take any ACTIONS whilst your mounted on it, it can still talk bonus actions. Plus if you're using Fizbans, you can summon a Dragonnel... which has flyby! So you can swoop in, do 12D8 Force damage from above, make a few wacks with your sword, and swoop back off. Or you can have a flying force breathing rhino! The potential is insane from both an RP and Damage perspective! Also, as others have pointed out, Pegasus + Tenser's Transformation + a spare weapon means you can turn your mount into Zoro from One Piece!
This is by far my favourite build (I've even asked help in the Treantmonk discord with optimising it a year or so in the past) - although, I do go for the 2 paladin levels instead of 19 in Bard, because I feel like the ability to smite when needed fits attacking with the longsword much better, thematically - and I also like to wear heavy armour, so my version starts with 2 levels of Paladin, then Bard to a minimum of 6, then the hexblade dip depends on access to things like gauntlets of ogre power or a belt of strength and how fast I feel like the charisma-bonus to attacks is required. My spell list is a lot different (and weaker than this), but my version is optimised for specific character flavour, so I don't care if some picks are not the best. I play a lvl 11 version of this and really love it so far :)
Glad you continued on and did this, Dungeon Dudes don't often seem to get deep enough in the numbers or analysis to satisfy my curiosity of having explored all the options so I generally skip those video's unless I got some extra time to kill, watching your video's, especially after the last longsword video really makes me think all the options have been expolored. That being said I like this topic enough I'll go check their video out after finishing this one. Back to the video!
this is an amazing build, and I am glad you uploaded it. Elden Ring's Margit the Fell and our party's HIGHLY reflavored wild magic sorcerer made me take another crack at a "magic swordman" build, but I believe I was going in a very inefficient direction. So thank you for uploading this video
I just realized that blade flourishes give a movement bump after attacking. I'm really thinking about a hit-and-run build with a gem dragonborn Paladin 2 / Swords bard. Taking Shield of faith and going sword and board in heavy armor with defense fighting style, that's a baseline AC of 21 (chainmail) -23 (full plate mail). Then with Defensive flourish, that AC is between 22 and 29. I imagine most enemies would miss their opportunity attack at that kind of AC, so now they don't have a reaction. Find a way to slap on Booming Blade, mix in smites, and you're a freight train on the ground and a B1 Bomber with Gem Flight. Neat!
I've always been fascinated by optimizing the whip to its fullest potential. I assume it would pretty much be using a Paladin or a Rogue to make up for the low damage. Taking advantage of the fineness property + the reach there has to be something the whip is really useful for!
i was thinking more of kensei monk, use martial die instead of damage die, increase your AC, its magical, you can make a +3 to damage and attack rolls for 1 minute, take the defensive duelist feat to increase your AC and has reach.
I actually really like including the champion fighter, in casual tables, the eldritch blast and champion fighter are what are considered good damage dealers honestly
The best part of this character is that it will actually be fun to play through the whole build. So many builds are niche. This one does some of everything.
I have to say I really like the format of this build video. I'm not sure if the last few were like this or not, but its so much better than the old build video format where you filled out the character sheet form.
If any DMs are reading, the "mockingblade" homebrew item by Griffon's Saddlebag (easily flavored as a longsword) would be really fun on this sort of character. It'll be interesting to juggle the bonus action economy, though.
I crunched the numbers on the whispers/booming blade combo and it does a lot less damage than you would expect, even with the hex/HW, guaranteed BB damage, and the 3d8 from the spell. It's just about always below baseline but it obviously has the benefit of proccing a number of op attacks, which has always been good for whispers For the record the DPR on the whispers blade combo is 21.8 at level 12, which is 6 below the damage you would get just doing an attack action
I actually calculated some alternatives as well. all straight class or with one level dips at most, so there was room to optimize. Eldritch Knight with Hex/HM, Kensei Monk and Battlesmith with Hex/HM all had a similar amount of DPR, decently above baseline from level 6-16. Battle smith won at most levels because of the pet. I compared it to a straight swords bard as well but that was worse than the others, so I agree that you need to multiclass the swords bard to really make it work.
Hello again Chris! I almost forgot to leave a comment on this one! But I got in with a buzzer beater! (I may have cheated and paused the shot clock though 😂)
Question: have you considered what would be needed to make longswords on par with other weapons/types? Like, what your quick fix would be, or what your homebrew rule would be. I personally think there needs to be a bit more variability in the types of effects/properties that weapons have, other than just die size.
I think the biggest issue with longswords is the lack of feat support. With Treantmonk's house rules (Mainly that any attack can take the -5/+10 if I remember the rule correctly) allows for longsword to compete with the heavy weapons. It becomes a choice between bigger damage or higher ac (Assuming you're using a shield with a longsword). I would love to play at a table that allows this rule so that a feat like shield master is a lot more enticing as a defensive option while still being able to do good damage if I choose to -5/+10 (Although shield master still has it's own problems of course).
@@iplaydums I personally incorporated this rule, but had it scale with proficiency. Basically your minus to hit plus damage is based upon your proficiency mod. Reworked GWM and SS to allow you to control which “tier” you take if you’ve reached that proficiency mod. Also added a +1 to hit to make two handers better at doing power attacks
Great weapon master/sharpshooter will always make thise weapons outclass one handed weapons in terms of damage, because one handed weapons can be used with a shield. Given bounded accuracy a +2 to AC is really powerful so giving up damage is the tradeoff.
Level 18 magical secrets: Shapechange Transform into a Marilith, get 6 longsword attacks on your turn (mariliths come with longswords), can make one reaction on every turn. On your turn, use a free d6 defensive flourish, first time you’re attacked, use shield, all other times use parry for a total of +11-16 on top of your natural 18 AC (granted, parry only works for the specific attack you parried)
I'm planning on making one of these for my next character. It was cool seeing the dudes video and then yours. All three of you are amazing, but your styles are so different that it didn't seem repetitive. For my character custom lineage I was planning on going war caster
I'd pick peryton or griffon over the pegasus as i'd value the better combat capability over mobility since i'd have longstrider anyway. holy weapon is indeed a great option as it frees up your bonus action for other non-concentration bonus actions.
A route I went was mono class fighter with sub class cavalier. Human varient take feats shield master and mounted combatant. Shield master gives a bit more of survivability and something to do with bonus action that can reposition target or knock prone for party members. Mounted combatant more survivability to mount and increases damage through giving advantage when mount is larger that target. Enlarge/reduce cast on mount can help when enemies get larger. The cavalier subclass is not needed other than it provides more tank and mount oriented abilities. The main con is getting a mount and keeping it alive. For the first several levels a warhorse work perfectly, but soon does not have enough health to take more than one or two hits. This can be alleviated through making the mount a Sidekick from Tasha's cauldron of everything, but requires DM approval. The paladin class has easier time with mounts due to the find stead spells.
True Polymorph with your last magical secrets could turn you into a longsword wielding angel :D that does great and reliable damage and can do a ton of healing too.
I’m actually playing something very similar to this right now, just with an extra level in warlock for the invocations. I originally made the character because I wanted the jack of all trades longsword and shield character. Nice to see optimization isn’t too far from my original build.
I built this EXACT character 2 years ago including War Caster and Fey Touched. Diplomacy, stealth, full caster, competent melee combat. Just really fun.
One of my characters was already based on your Jack of All Trades Swords/Hex build, but he's only level 4. Looks like a perfect time to analyze how 2+ years of optimization can make him better. With a cursory glance, looks like less focus on being balanced between ranged and melee, but given my love of Spirit Guardians and Holy Weapon I'm absolutely ok with that.
Another third level spell i would consider picking up is Catnap, since you have so many spells slots available you can give a huge boost to your party by guaranteeing the martials a nova every combat
I think the clever thing here is that this is a build which is built around utility bonus actions. Being free to use various spells and inspiration is probably better than trying to squeeze damage out of it, since the build will never do as much damage as pure damage builds. Probably wiser than a mostly damage-focused bonus action, such as Horizon Walker. That's my initial thought, and I think it wouldn't be too terrible. The Ranger has a lot of good stuff going for them. Duelist happens naturally. You still get great utility spells like Goodberry, Pass without Trace, and Conjure Animals. For subclass, Horizon Walker has the a bonus-action subclass perk that scales. Getting to level 11 and the 2d8 damage on Planar Warrior works out decently. All-hits would be 4d8 + 14, which is better than a non-sharpshooter Hand Crossbow at 3d6+15. Your damage is also more consistent, after level 5 the Planar Warrior boost won’t miss as often, since there are two chances to proc it. To be sure, Sharpshooter is better, but Horizon Walker can do OK, considering the Longsword limit. Higher level abilities are some sweet free teleports, and three attacks, if you feel like spreading damage around. Race, I’d probably go Custom Lineage for Heavily Armored, to start at 18 Strength and avoid having to go MAD with Dex. It’ll foreclose on multiclassing, but why not go straight Ranger? It’d be nice to get the Reckless Attack option, but the concept of a Longsword Ranger is already a bit niche, and it could be fun to play around with the high-level Ranger abilities. If you never get to high levels and the game ends around 7th or 8th, well, I think I’d want to be a straight Ranger through 5th anyhow, so it isn’t that many levels that I’d consider dipping into something else. For other feats... I could see getting to 20 strength with half feats, taking Slasher and Heavy Armor Master, or maybe just Warcaster ASAP and putting the rest of the ASI into stats. Horizon Walker has some good spells, and putting a bit more into Wisdom than average wouldn't be the worst plan.
I've made a build that has 1 level in Hexblade and the rest of the levels in Swords Bard, but using a spear and a shield with Polearm Master. The ability to stack bonuses like Hex, Hexblade's Curse and dueling on the extra d4 attack made it deal impressively good damage at all levels. I didn't do the math, but I think the damage might be better than a lot of fighter builds; it becomes exceptionally good at 11th level (Bard 10), when you can get Spirit Shroud to insanely increse your damage, so you're making two attacks for 1d6 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 2d8 damage, and an additional attack with a d4 and all those bonuses. Not only that, but you're also SAD and have some awesome maneuvers with Blade Flourish.
So, I'm pretty sure it is on the bard spell list, and it would be situational... but I would make sure Bestow Curse is on your spell list. I think you can fit it in among other choices, and the option to cast it as a reaction with warcaster is a really powerful option (as a 5th level spell it also requires no concentration). You aren't going to use it every fight, but it has a very powerful control option in its lost action curse, or a straight damage option which is similar to a concentrationless hex, iirc.
I think that a common misunderstanding about the Slashing Flourish is the number of creatures you can hit with it. It says it deals the damage to "the target you hit and to any other creature of your choice within 5 feet of you." That means that you can hit *every* enemy within that range. It's still not the best Flourish, but it could be a decent option for if you get surrounded. If you can get Misty Step somehow you could use a Slashing Flourish do some damage to all the enemies surrounding you and then teleport away 30 feet as a bonus action.
The Tulok the Barbrarian channel just made a Wobbuffet character build. Pretty sure that build beats the baseline without even needing a weapon. That build was basically take the tough feat, one level of warlock for armor of agathys and hellish rebuke, then go abjuration wizard the rest of the way and depend on armor of agathys cast with wizard slots and abjuration ward to tank everything. Take booming blade, war caster, and anytime an enemy looks at another PC because they don't want to deal with your armor of agathys damage swat them with a booming blade opportunity attack.
Been playing a Swords Bard with a 1 level hex dip for the past 5 months or so and having a ton of fun with it. I did start with a longsword and intended to stick with it, but we came across a +2 Scimitar of Speed and my little bard has been shredding everything with that. Find Greater Steed is a no-brainer, but I'm going to find it difficult to not pick up Haste at level 10. Holy Weapon would be amazing damage with the bonus action attack I have with the Scimitar of Speed, but Haste on the mount as well? Difficult choice. Holy Weapon might win out in the end depending on what the group needs, and we might end up being able to craft/buy potions of speed as this campaign is intended to go to 20. Tons of good ideas for spells to pick up along the way in the video, Synaptic Static wasn't on my radar but looks fun!
I like the option of using a Dragonnel for find greater steed, has double attack, and it has flyby, tack that on with tensers transformation, your hard to hit, you can fly in and out of most creatures attack range.
An alternative that I think is worth considering over Spirit Guardians, or Holy Weapon for Magical Secrets is Spirit Shroud. It's a 3rd-level spell, casts as a bonus action, adds the same damage boost as Holy Weapon if cast at 5th-level, and prevents creatures you hit from any possible healing while reducing the speed of every enemy within 10 feet of you. If wand to be extra "Anime" with it, Spirit Shroud also has some unique synergy with Steel Wind Strike. Any creature within 10 feet of you as you cast Steel Wind Strike would be eligible to also suffer the damage and effects of Spirit Shroud as well.
I never looked into sword bard before, but the flourishes seem like they would be a fun synergy with the battlemaster maneuvers. The book says you can do one flourish per turn, and one maneuver per attack. I've been using the brides of Strahd in my CoS campaign to play with some exotic builds, like I made Volenta a shadow monk/totem barbarian. This could be something fun to do with Escher.
my favorite multiclass for a 20 lvl longsword build is 2 lvls paladin , 12 lvl swords bard using bard spells for smites if need be then 6 lvl hexblade with the feats dual wielder and mobile , charger , war caster. fighting styles include two weapon fighting ( from bard ) defense ( from paladin ) with custom lineage. mind you this a pure dps build.
So I know how much you want to love monks, and I do too. I'd love to see you make a build for a "better monk", just an unarmed puncher build that beats the monk! I imagine the best would be battlemaster but I really don't know for sure.
The longsword is usually a generalist weapon (in systems with more involved melee systems) so it's fitting that the longsword build is a generalist itself.
Another couple of swords builds I think shouldn't be underestimated is Goblin (Tasha's) Beastmaster Ranger. You can ride your beast into battle with a long sword, get fury of the small and your beast is a bonus action attack, that becomes 2 bonus action attacks at level 11.Strength and wisdom are your high stats and 14 dex with 12 con still makes you durable. In addition you get all the typical ranger tricks. After level 11 You can always take a couple level dips in barbarian for rage if you want, and 2 level dips in fighter for a second fighting style and action surge. Or you can continue onto level 13 for 4th level spells and at 15th level you can share spells with your beast companion (aka your mount) so your buffs can affect them. Damage wise it also keeps up pretty well, but it does become a bit more MAD so less feats available, but as was noted before, feats are much less important with a long sword build. Another build I felt was dismissed a little too quickly was the Wood Elf Sword Mercy Monk. It can wield the sword in 2 hands, gets a free bonus action unarmed strike, and can get more strikes with ki that scales with level, or provide some control. Mercy monks also provide some healing and environmental puzzle solving ability. (Level 5 Mercy Monk, no ki expenditure does average damage of 17.23 per round. A round with flurry of blows deals 22.1 damage. A round with a single stunning strike (assuming the creature succeeds its save) deals 18.53. At 11, the damage is 19.825 with no ki expenditure (with 11 ki that comes back on short rest) and it is 28.925 with 1 point spent on flurry of blows thanks to hands of harm. Ranger without hunters mark up and just beast at level 5 will deal 19.35 per round, with hunters mark it is 18.2 on the first round and 23.9 on subsequent rounds (assuming you don't have to move hunter's mark, which is a bad assumption, likely better to just attack with the pet.) At 11, pet gets double attack so damage becomes 26.5 if you put more into strength or 26.3 if you didn't. Unfortunately this does fall behind until level 13 when you get 4th level spells like guardian of nature when it becomes 36.6 after the first round of combat (only around 25 the first round). Becoming higher again at 15 with share spells making damage go to 36 on the first round now, and 48 every round after. I do wish I could figure out a way to make the transition from 10 to 11 feel less bad though, largely it is around level 9 because none of the 3rd level spells make a very large dent. Anyway these were just thoughts of other things you could try doing and does not take into account fury of the small since it is only a one time use (though to be fair so is guardian of nature). I am curious how much better this can be made, especially with multi-class options being an idea. Edit: i think non-gloom stalker rangers and fist close range monks in general are decent longsword builds because they have a lot of uses for their bonus actions that are better than polearm master bonus action attack.
Another good option if players are allowed to use it would be Bloodhunter. They have a lot of uses for their bonus action like Crimson Rite, Blood Maledicts, and subclass options, access to the Dueling fighting style, Extra Attack, and ways to contribute more than just raw damage with some tanking, casting, or utility features depending on the subclass. They could also pick up Hex and dipping into Warlock could buff their casting.
I personally like 2 levels of paladin and the rest in swords bard. The smites more than make up for the lacklustre damage from longsword. Bard gives you some great spells if you want to do something other than smite.
Dumb lil backstory idea for the algorithm. As a child the PC saw a longsword hero or performer that really struck a chord with them. Maybe that swordsman saved them and their family, whatever the circumstance, it planted a deep admiration for and determination to become the greatest (long)swordsman in the world. But growing up the PC faced the same dilemmas and setbacks that optimizing a longsword build gives us as character builders. So they sought out and made a pact with a Hexblade to achieve those goals. While you could use any patron and make it work, I thought of something that works well for a sentient weapon that also parallels the PC and reflects the Hexblade being the secondary class. The PC sought out a sentient Longsword who bided their time and learned from each of its weilders. Their shortcomings and their successes. It analyzed everything. It had aspirations to become the greatest blade of the realm but the mortals of this world are unable to tap into its power optimally. Through sheer will and determination it became able to siphon its power into like minded individuals and become their Patron and their blade. I imagine the PC being the first chosen to experience this Blades favor.
I would think a Beserker barbarian 5 would be best early. Reckless attack for crit potential, 3 attacks per round. You don’t really lose much until exhaustion lvl 3-and even then reckless attack counters the disadvantage. If the Beserker ability said “once per day while raging you get a bonus action attack, but suffer disadvantage on ability checks until you long rest” people would consider it more often.
I think the down-rate on Booming Blade is well-chosen. It gets used in our games a fair bit, and I totally agree: it doesn't trigger much unless the creature has a reasonable motivation to move. In a surround and pound scenario, it almost never triggers. Players don't use mobility enough IME. Longstrider IS an amazing spell, but you would never know it!
It's nice you released the video nonetheless, it's possible the Dungeon Dude was simply inspired by your previous video. Although I don't like DnD 5 focus on having spells being so much better and encouraging ppl to have full casting unless they go for Martial DPR build.
I've been playing a similar build since December 2021, at level 5 now. In the end I chose Lore Bard instead of swords Bard, partly because it fit better for my group, but also because it lets me pick up Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon at level 7 and Steel Wind Strike at level 11.
Hexblade 12 oathbreaker 8 double dips charisma plus dueling plus life drinker, puts you at 5+5+5+2= 17 before rolling any dice, 23 if the target is cursed so 2(23 + 1d8) add holy weapon because you have access to those spells and a+3 longsword and your at 2(26+3d8)= 79 points of damage on average if you hit both your attacks and not including any smites you may use, but this would work better with the bigger weapons and doesn’t include race bonuses like aasimar.
@@TreantmonksTemple This was my comment: “I’ve been very vocal about the Trident in the past. It’s a damn shame it was left out of the Polearm Master feat. It doesn’t have anything unique to it whatsoever. I figured the Triton race would’ve been proficient with it and maybe even increased the damage die? Nope! Lol. You can throw it and pair it with the Artificer Infusion, the Eldritch Knight BA ability, or even the BattleMaster Quick Toss maneuver, but still very lackluster all together. I just wish there was a dedicated Retiarius subclass - the classic trident and net gladiator. So, please Chris would you mind dedicating a video to our boy the 🔱?”
@@Himothy_Wayne Ah. You're right, the Trident has really been excluded from everything good. It's basically a spear except it's a martial weapon, costs more, and doesn't qualify for Polearm Master. I won't be doing a special video I think because it would basically be my last two videos with each time I say "longsword" it would be replaced with "trident"
@@TreantmonksTemple you know what that’s totally understandable. I think down the road a discussion is warranted though lol. Even if there was, at the very least, a feat added for disarming purposes. I know the BM maneuver can do it but it’d be a cool addition to the trident. It’s a damn shame it’s looked at as this unwanted stepchild of the weapon selections. You’d think in the MOoT book they’d give a nod to it. So yeah idfk maybe people can re-flavor it into a pitchfork lmao.
For burst damage (also good total damage) you have to look at the new Bug Bear race. Echo Knight 11 (get to 20 Str, fey touched gift of alacrity), Gloom Stalker 3, Divine Soul 4 (quicken booming blade, alert feat), Paladin 2. +10.5 to Initiative, 20AC, 20 Str, 13 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Wis, 13 Char, 22d8 from Bug Bear (+8d8 rd2 if surprise), 29d8 from 10 smites.
Funny, I had been wondering why people don't talk about the hexblade dip for College of Swords and two channels I follow do it back to back. As I posted there, I have a similar setup planned out and built, but using a spear and polearm master instead of Fey-Touched. I didn't quite put as much focus on you into maximizing weapon damage, however, treating the Attack Action as a souped-up cantrip. This does have the notable benefit of weaponizing my reaction significantly more often, with Booming Blade making for a beautiful opportunity attack. I instead loaded up on the usual bard standouts and a few new ones - I took Hypnotic Pattern and Slow, added Evard's Black Tentacles and Spirit Guardians. Otherwise our builds are quite similar, although you reach 20 CHA first. As for why you'd bother to attack once Spirit Guardians is up rather than dodge, two reasons. First some damage is still more than no damage, and second I want Defensive Flourish. Depending on the size of the Inspiration Die it should be fairly similar in effect to Dodge anyway. This gets even more valuable once you can do it every round using a d6.
A small trick that works well at low level is Telekinesis with booming blade. While the 5 foot shove does not trigger the extra damage to get back into melee would. Just something to think about as even with our the damage move them a little each round that you do not do something else with your bounse adds up to some battle feild control and combos with other. P.S. I do think this build make the best Gish to play.
sure, it works, but as you put more and more things together that happen every attack, it quickly gets outclassed. If I understand it right, telekin would replace fey touched, right? level1-4, 1d8 secondary dmg vs 1d6 hex/mark dmg 5-6(asuming dip) 1d8 on hit + 2d8 secondary dmg vs 1d6 hex/mark level 7: 1d8 on hit + 2d8 secondary dmg vs 2d6+2 not to mention it uses your BA every time to even attempt it
Really weird that this came out when it did - I just got done building a character very similar to this, except: - I dropped hexblade and picked up two levels of paladin for smites, heavy armor, great weapon fighting, and about a dozen free spells - I took War Caster, GWM, and PAM - I took Orzhov Representative for some extra spell list versatility (also because one of our party members owes the syndicate some money...) - I'll be grabbing and using tensers transformation for use in those battles that require that a particular opponent die immediately (that advantage on attack will be really nice with GWM) Kinda feels like I built Cloud Strife.
Here's the one I came up with. (not fully happy with it yet) Sword Mastery While wielding a Sword(Dagger, Greatsword, Longsword, Rapier, Scimitar, or Shortsword) you gain the following benefits: -When you parry an attack you gain the upper hand on your enemy. Whenever a creature misses you with a melee weapon attack, your next weapon attack with a Sword against the creature gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus. -Your quick sword movements and faints can stagger a target. When you hit a creature with an attack using a Sword you can forgo dealing damage to instead stagger them. The creature must make a Constitution saving throw DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier, on failure the creature is unable to take reactions and attacks against the creature have advantage until the end of your turn. -When you strike an enemy perfectly you flourish to bolster your defense. After striking a creature with a critical hit you gain the benefits of the dodge action until the start of your next turn.
@@TheAlGoreRhythm999 Here what I came up with on Chris's last video. Sword Master: When using a sword type (short sword, long sword, rapier, scimitar) weapon in making an Attack Action, you can make a pommel strike as a bonus action for 1d4 damage. Longswords are considered a finesse weapon for you. Once per round you can add your Proficiency Bonus to the damage of a sword type weapon. This bonus damage is doubled if using a longsword with both hands. On a Critical Hit you can make an additional attack using your reaction.
Yeah, this is difficult. I almost envy the weapon specific feats of 2e and 3 5. Here's a challenge: Try making a magical pugilist. The sheer number of things that don't work is discouraging at best.
Just gotta point out, this is almost exactly your old Jack of All Trade build, just updated for TCoE content and with the two extra levels in warlock pulled out (one level of which most people were saying you should drop even when you made that video). Don't get me wrong, I love that build and am glad to see an update, just surprised you didn't acknowledge this anywhere in the video.
I wonder if there is a way to get even better results with an INT based gish. Maybe Battlesmith Artificer 3 / Psi-warrior Fighter 3 / Bladesinger Wizard 14? Definitely would want to start with the 3 levels of Artificer. Not sure when to do the others. Feel like it should win out in sustainable weapon dpr (especially if your DM interprets the Bladesinger extra attack to let you use Booming Blade, even if only making one attack with Haste). BB using INT for +5, with another +5 from Song of Victory, +2 from Dueling fighting style, and often D6 +5 from Psionic Strike, twice in a turn plus an additional normal weapon attack with the same bonuses seems good.
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The fact that a sword and board Champion can hit the baseline (more or less) is legitimately surprising to me.
I wonder if WotC uses the sword and board Champion for their baseline for damage? It would make sense given its simplicity and how it is a basic rules subclass.
The baseline is honestly low damage. Hitting it isn't difficult, the issue is doing other things if you're not very far above it
Its so funny you and Dungeon Dudes both came out with these videos, because a week before i was trying to craft a Swords Vard and considered some amount of Hexblade to help. When i saw their video i said "oh, great, everyone is gonna think i was making it cause of this video"
Now im just convinced that we're all just being fed the same dreams.
i funny enough did a strength build using paladin start
The warlock patron blesses us.
I commented on the Dungeon Dudes video that Armor of Agathys would have been far superior. Great to see it on your build!
This is true optimization. That's because you are constraining yourself by optimizing a concept and not just hand picking powerful options. In this case the concept is "Heroic Longsword User". This is another reason to steer clear of poisoner. Thanks, I hope we get to see a few more videos like this with other concepts.
I agree, it’s not “concept first” if they end up picking PAM/GWM or CE/SS, big pet peeve. Happens so often
@@dominicl5862 I mean, if they want to use those weapons, then it's totally concept first.
@@jacobjensen7704 that's completely true. But when you see people like Pact Tactics talking about how their crossbow is a shortbow, or gun, or whatever, it kinda takes me out of it. And then to insinuate that all other weapons/builds aren't worth playing because "duh bonus action attack" not even realizing the huge BA economy available. Sorry for rant 😮💨
@@dominicl5862 yeah, I can see reskinning to make something better if something is super weak, but I can also see not liking it.
I kinda like Treantmonk's idea in the first longsword video of polearm master being for longswords (attacking with the butt of the weapon) since that does make way more sense than attacking with the butt end of a polearm.
@@jacobjensen7704There is actual historical precedent for this, even going as far as armored knights grabbing the sword by the blade and hitting them the crossguard or butt of the sword. This was usually done when facing someone else with plate armor, as the focused force was able to do some crushing damage on the person below the armor.
This is also why a lot of polearms used in the late medieval period had some form of hammer-style piece on them.
Glad you didn't abandon this build. It's always great to have more commentary on an idea. What you bring to the table is different from what others bring. And new takes on the same build open up more options to create a character you'll really enjoy playing.
I really like this build actually, because you can do essentially everything. You are kind of the ultimate sort of utility character especially if you pick your skills and even maybe tool proficiencies with your background right.
You'll never outshine a more dedicated character, but just the ability to contribute and usefully contribute in pretty much any scenario the game can bring up? Very appropriate for a bard I think
I got really confused when I saw your comment because I didn't remember watching this video, LOL
@@saethone And if your profile picture is anything to go by the resemblance isn't half bad either.
Respect for linking and giving the props to the Dudes’ video. Solidarity!
This was a great video. I like more general optimized builds, but I love optimized concept builds. Personally I'd also like to see you take a crack at two weapon fighting in a similar way. Much like the iconic longsword, a warrior going into battle with a weapon in each hand is a much beloved and desired fantasy that's woefully unsupported by the current mechanics.
agreed.
I did that build with a swords bard and the dual fighting fighting style and again this fantsay isnt good supported by the current dnd rouls; but a fantsy many of us have in their heads. i got my dm to grant my the second atack with my wapon always and not only once with my single bonus action i have per turn even thogh i have 2 atacks around ( not much of a dmg buff since bards never get tripple atack as a warrior but atlest it felt better;))
He did a character that uses both Two-weapon fighting (early levels) and then switches to thrown weapons (later levels). Was pretty cool.
Thank you for using shades of red and green that are easier for colorblind people to tell apart.
I thought it was funny. I watched the D dudes video already and I was playing around with it. I went with a Hexblade 1/ Lore Bard
Using booming Blade and taking Spirit Guardians and Spiritual weapon at lvl 7 and you could pick up a fighting style Feat, but I went with a Spear/shield with the Polearm Master Feat. It's pretty versatile. Always good to see her take on builds Thank you
Slashing flourish is not limited to one extra creature, so if you are surrounded by lots of low AC/low HP targets, it can be useful as a small AoE damage dealer, in addition to focusing your main attack on one target.
I’m loving these videos recently even tho I’ll probably never do this bc it hurts the little optimizer inside me but thanks for the options
There's one area that a longsword will always be better at than a GWM build: it is less vulnerable to bad luck.
Great minds think alike. You and the Dungeon Dudes give great advice. Hopefully you guys can play again.
cool video idea. I know you like build challenges and I got one for you. So at my table, we use the following rules from the DMG:
- Gritty Realism (the big game changer)
- Slow Natural Healing
- Healer's Kit Dependency
- Healing Surge (regular action variant, not bonus), still requires a use of a Healer's Kit
- Flanking
- Facing
- Extra Combat/attack options (Marking, Cleaving through creatures, disarming, climbing on top of monsters, Tumble, Ect.)
- Injuries
- Massive Damage
- Spell Points (I give my players the option to chose this or Spell Slots, although, they've all switched to Spell points and ive found that new players understand points easier than slots)
- Variant Encumbrance (in the PHB)
- Moral (Use Honor score instead of Charisma)
- We also use Honor/Sanity but you shouldn't have to worry about that. it just adds 6 extra pints to spend when doing point buy. Those ability scores just fill in some gaps and keep Wisdom and Charisma from being catch-alls.
Here's a couple Notes based on things we've noticed:
1 - This doesn't nerf Full casters at all. It just gives short rest based classes more time to shine. Spells become more magical and less of an everyday thing as cantrips will get a lot more use as with Concentration based spells. Gotta get the most out of your Spell!
2 - Effects that change long rests are switched to short rest, Trance, Sentries rest, ect.
3 - Exhaustion now recovers on a short rest and the one Ranger ability that let's them recover Exhaustion now just let's them recover an extra level. Easy-peasy
4 - Healing Word no longer gets casts nearly as much because dropping to 0 HP inflicts an injury. Strength is also no longer a viable dumpstat as its needed for carry weight which in turn, keeps Dex from being the go to.
5 - Again, we have found that doesn't nerf any full casters at all, just gives other classes more value. Different weapons and armor get used based on what the character can carry and use at effective movement speeds.
6 - Lastly, my players have found these rules from the DMG more enjoyable and claim that it is healthy for the game. it makes balancing encounters easy along with challenging players at high levels super easy. Because long rests are not guaranteed and you tend to go around 30+ days without a long rest, much planning must be done on the players' side. Character death is also very relevant and very real even at high levels.
Thank you for reading this far and I'd love to see your thoughts!
all content is good content. thanks for posting this video and all of your work you put in.
I work night shift and long-form discussions like this are my favorite thing to listen to.
I actually like your warlock baseline damage comparison. Not just because it's a easy build, but because it can also do a lot more. That warlock could cast a counterspell, or drop hex for a Hypnotic Pattern or whatever. The point is though, that if you're a martial who can't do any of that, and you're basically equalling the warlock with a pretty minimal effort build... then what are you doing? It's different if you're playing a support role - maybe you went Battle Master and took Commanding Shout and other types of maneuvers designed not really to increase your damage but rather help the party. Or your goal was to occupy and deny space - maybe a Sentinel build with Reach weapons. But if you're playing a ranged damage dealer and you are competitive with the warlock spamming EB most fights, but also summoning the odd creature, or countering some spells, or throwing down some CC or heck, even a fireball if they're pact of the fiend or whatever, then that's just not a very strong build. You're a dedicated martial. You should be well above that baseline, which is why I like it so much AS a baseline.
I played this on westmarches for over a year. Its amazingly fun to play. Used a halfling for lucky as it's one of the few times you can combat without a heavy weapon
I never gave the swords bard much love but as you made it here it seems really strong.
Glad you stayed true to the concept of mainly using the longsword. Great video as always.
IF you can use Fizban's Treaury of Dragons at your table, Draconic Transformation is busted. You can summon and mount any steed, and then cast Draconic Transformation, giving both you and your steed a 6D8 bonus action 60 foot cone. Also whilst your mount can't take any ACTIONS whilst your mounted on it, it can still talk bonus actions. Plus if you're using Fizbans, you can summon a Dragonnel... which has flyby! So you can swoop in, do 12D8 Force damage from above, make a few wacks with your sword, and swoop back off. Or you can have a flying force breathing rhino! The potential is insane from both an RP and Damage perspective!
Also, as others have pointed out, Pegasus + Tenser's Transformation + a spare weapon means you can turn your mount into Zoro from One Piece!
This is by far my favourite build (I've even asked help in the Treantmonk discord with optimising it a year or so in the past) - although, I do go for the 2 paladin levels instead of 19 in Bard, because I feel like the ability to smite when needed fits attacking with the longsword much better, thematically - and I also like to wear heavy armour, so my version starts with 2 levels of Paladin, then Bard to a minimum of 6, then the hexblade dip depends on access to things like gauntlets of ogre power or a belt of strength and how fast I feel like the charisma-bonus to attacks is required.
My spell list is a lot different (and weaker than this), but my version is optimised for specific character flavour, so I don't care if some picks are not the best.
I play a lvl 11 version of this and really love it so far :)
The ultimate longsword build!!!!
Unless your DM doesn’t allow Hexblade to multiclass with Cha casters.
Glad you continued on and did this, Dungeon Dudes don't often seem to get deep enough in the numbers or analysis to satisfy my curiosity of having explored all the options so I generally skip those video's unless I got some extra time to kill, watching your video's, especially after the last longsword video really makes me think all the options have been expolored. That being said I like this topic enough I'll go check their video out after finishing this one. Back to the video!
I love that your "crunching the numbers" visual is a shot of deriving the quadratic formula. That's my favorite bit of math!
this is an amazing build, and I am glad you uploaded it.
Elden Ring's Margit the Fell and our party's HIGHLY reflavored wild magic sorcerer made me take another crack at a "magic swordman" build, but I believe I was going in a very inefficient direction.
So thank you for uploading this video
I love the Dungeon Dude's build! One of my favorite builds so far. Let's see what you got my guy.
I just realized that blade flourishes give a movement bump after attacking. I'm really thinking about a hit-and-run build with a gem dragonborn Paladin 2 / Swords bard. Taking Shield of faith and going sword and board in heavy armor with defense fighting style, that's a baseline AC of 21 (chainmail) -23 (full plate mail). Then with Defensive flourish, that AC is between 22 and 29. I imagine most enemies would miss their opportunity attack at that kind of AC, so now they don't have a reaction. Find a way to slap on Booming Blade, mix in smites, and you're a freight train on the ground and a B1 Bomber with Gem Flight. Neat!
I've always been fascinated by optimizing the whip to its fullest potential. I assume it would pretty much be using a Paladin or a Rogue to make up for the low damage. Taking advantage of the fineness property + the reach there has to be something the whip is really useful for!
i was thinking more of kensei monk, use martial die instead of damage die, increase your AC, its magical, you can make a +3 to damage and attack rolls for 1 minute, take the defensive duelist feat to increase your AC and has reach.
I suggest checking out d4 networks whiperwill build
I always thought a Way of the Kensei Monk would make the best use of a whip. Just tossing it out there. 🤷♂️
@@samuelknapp6866 jaja, same
I think d4 made a whip build
I actually really like including the champion fighter, in casual tables, the eldritch blast and champion fighter are what are considered good damage dealers honestly
The best part of this character is that it will actually be fun to play through the whole build. So many builds are niche. This one does some of everything.
I love it whenever you make your own road signs when editing. Idk why it tickles me so much.
I have to say I really like the format of this build video. I'm not sure if the last few were like this or not, but its so much better than the old build video format where you filled out the character sheet form.
I always start my builds with the quadratic formula. Glad to see I'm not the only one.
If any DMs are reading, the "mockingblade" homebrew item by Griffon's Saddlebag (easily flavored as a longsword) would be really fun on this sort of character. It'll be interesting to juggle the bonus action economy, though.
19:04
Dissonant whispers could be used to encourage Opportunity attacks. If you have an ally around they could also make use of it.
I crunched the numbers on the whispers/booming blade combo and it does a lot less damage than you would expect, even with the hex/HW, guaranteed BB damage, and the 3d8 from the spell. It's just about always below baseline but it obviously has the benefit of proccing a number of op attacks, which has always been good for whispers
For the record the DPR on the whispers blade combo is 21.8 at level 12, which is 6 below the damage you would get just doing an attack action
I actually calculated some alternatives as well. all straight class or with one level dips at most, so there was room to optimize.
Eldritch Knight with Hex/HM, Kensei Monk and Battlesmith with Hex/HM all had a similar amount of DPR, decently above baseline from level 6-16. Battle smith won at most levels because of the pet.
I compared it to a straight swords bard as well but that was worse than the others, so I agree that you need to multiclass the swords bard to really make it work.
Hello again Chris! I almost forgot to leave a comment on this one! But I got in with a buzzer beater! (I may have cheated and paused the shot clock though 😂)
Question: have you considered what would be needed to make longswords on par with other weapons/types? Like, what your quick fix would be, or what your homebrew rule would be. I personally think there needs to be a bit more variability in the types of effects/properties that weapons have, other than just die size.
But that would entail a minor rework of the weapons system, or an update instead, and that would be more comprehensive than just for 1 weapon.
With my 3 house rules, longswords get used all the time.
I think the biggest issue with longswords is the lack of feat support. With Treantmonk's house rules (Mainly that any attack can take the -5/+10 if I remember the rule correctly) allows for longsword to compete with the heavy weapons. It becomes a choice between bigger damage or higher ac (Assuming you're using a shield with a longsword). I would love to play at a table that allows this rule so that a feat like shield master is a lot more enticing as a defensive option while still being able to do good damage if I choose to -5/+10 (Although shield master still has it's own problems of course).
@@iplaydums I personally incorporated this rule, but had it scale with proficiency. Basically your minus to hit plus damage is based upon your proficiency mod.
Reworked GWM and SS to allow you to control which “tier” you take if you’ve reached that proficiency mod. Also added a +1 to hit to make two handers better at doing power attacks
Great weapon master/sharpshooter will always make thise weapons outclass one handed weapons in terms of damage, because one handed weapons can be used with a shield. Given bounded accuracy a +2 to AC is really powerful so giving up damage is the tradeoff.
Level 18 magical secrets: Shapechange
Transform into a Marilith, get 6 longsword attacks on your turn (mariliths come with longswords), can make one reaction on every turn.
On your turn, use a free d6 defensive flourish, first time you’re attacked, use shield, all other times use parry for a total of +11-16 on top of your natural 18 AC (granted, parry only works for the specific attack you parried)
I'm planning on making one of these for my next character. It was cool seeing the dudes video and then yours. All three of you are amazing, but your styles are so different that it didn't seem repetitive.
For my character custom lineage I was planning on going war caster
I'd pick peryton or griffon over the pegasus as i'd value the better combat capability over mobility since i'd have longstrider anyway. holy weapon is indeed a great option as it frees up your bonus action for other non-concentration bonus actions.
A route I went was mono class fighter with sub class cavalier. Human varient take feats shield master and mounted combatant. Shield master gives a bit more of survivability and something to do with bonus action that can reposition target or knock prone for party members. Mounted combatant more survivability to mount and increases damage through giving advantage when mount is larger that target. Enlarge/reduce cast on mount can help when enemies get larger.
The cavalier subclass is not needed other than it provides more tank and mount oriented abilities.
The main con is getting a mount and keeping it alive. For the first several levels a warhorse work perfectly, but soon does not have enough health to take more than one or two hits. This can be alleviated through making the mount a Sidekick from Tasha's cauldron of everything, but requires DM approval. The paladin class has easier time with mounts due to the find stead spells.
True Polymorph with your last magical secrets could turn you into a longsword wielding angel :D that does great and reliable damage and can do a ton of healing too.
I’m actually playing something very similar to this right now, just with an extra level in warlock for the invocations. I originally made the character because I wanted the jack of all trades longsword and shield character. Nice to see optimization isn’t too far from my original build.
I built this EXACT character 2 years ago including War Caster and Fey Touched. Diplomacy, stealth, full caster, competent melee combat. Just really fun.
One of my characters was already based on your Jack of All Trades Swords/Hex build, but he's only level 4. Looks like a perfect time to analyze how 2+ years of optimization can make him better.
With a cursory glance, looks like less focus on being balanced between ranged and melee, but given my love of Spirit Guardians and Holy Weapon I'm absolutely ok with that.
Another third level spell i would consider picking up is Catnap, since you have so many spells slots available you can give a huge boost to your party by guaranteeing the martials a nova every combat
I think the clever thing here is that this is a build which is built around utility bonus actions. Being free to use various spells and inspiration is probably better than trying to squeeze damage out of it, since the build will never do as much damage as pure damage builds.
Probably wiser than a mostly damage-focused bonus action, such as Horizon Walker. That's my initial thought, and I think it wouldn't be too terrible. The Ranger has a lot of good stuff going for them. Duelist happens naturally. You still get great utility spells like Goodberry, Pass without Trace, and Conjure Animals.
For subclass, Horizon Walker has the a bonus-action subclass perk that scales. Getting to level 11 and the 2d8 damage on Planar Warrior works out decently. All-hits would be 4d8 + 14, which is better than a non-sharpshooter Hand Crossbow at 3d6+15. Your damage is also more consistent, after level 5 the Planar Warrior boost won’t miss as often, since there are two chances to proc it. To be sure, Sharpshooter is better, but Horizon Walker can do OK, considering the Longsword limit. Higher level abilities are some sweet free teleports, and three attacks, if you feel like spreading damage around.
Race, I’d probably go Custom Lineage for Heavily Armored, to start at 18 Strength and avoid having to go MAD with Dex. It’ll foreclose on multiclassing, but why not go straight Ranger? It’d be nice to get the Reckless Attack option, but the concept of a Longsword Ranger is already a bit niche, and it could be fun to play around with the high-level Ranger abilities. If you never get to high levels and the game ends around 7th or 8th, well, I think I’d want to be a straight Ranger through 5th anyhow, so it isn’t that many levels that I’d consider dipping into something else.
For other feats... I could see getting to 20 strength with half feats, taking Slasher and Heavy Armor Master, or maybe just Warcaster ASAP and putting the rest of the ASI into stats. Horizon Walker has some good spells, and putting a bit more into Wisdom than average wouldn't be the worst plan.
I've made a build that has 1 level in Hexblade and the rest of the levels in Swords Bard, but using a spear and a shield with Polearm Master. The ability to stack bonuses like Hex, Hexblade's Curse and dueling on the extra d4 attack made it deal impressively good damage at all levels. I didn't do the math, but I think the damage might be better than a lot of fighter builds; it becomes exceptionally good at 11th level (Bard 10), when you can get Spirit Shroud to insanely increse your damage, so you're making two attacks for 1d6 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 2d8 damage, and an additional attack with a d4 and all those bonuses. Not only that, but you're also SAD and have some awesome maneuvers with Blade Flourish.
So, I'm pretty sure it is on the bard spell list, and it would be situational... but I would make sure Bestow Curse is on your spell list. I think you can fit it in among other choices, and the option to cast it as a reaction with warcaster is a really powerful option (as a 5th level spell it also requires no concentration).
You aren't going to use it every fight, but it has a very powerful control option in its lost action curse, or a straight damage option which is similar to a concentrationless hex, iirc.
I think that a common misunderstanding about the Slashing Flourish is the number of creatures you can hit with it. It says it deals the damage to "the target you hit and to any other creature of your choice within 5 feet of you." That means that you can hit *every* enemy within that range. It's still not the best Flourish, but it could be a decent option for if you get surrounded. If you can get Misty Step somehow you could use a Slashing Flourish do some damage to all the enemies surrounding you and then teleport away 30 feet as a bonus action.
The Tulok the Barbrarian channel just made a Wobbuffet character build. Pretty sure that build beats the baseline without even needing a weapon.
That build was basically take the tough feat, one level of warlock for armor of agathys and hellish rebuke, then go abjuration wizard the rest of the way and depend on armor of agathys cast with wizard slots and abjuration ward to tank everything. Take booming blade, war caster, and anytime an enemy looks at another PC because they don't want to deal with your armor of agathys damage swat them with a booming blade opportunity attack.
Been playing a Swords Bard with a 1 level hex dip for the past 5 months or so and having a ton of fun with it. I did start with a longsword and intended to stick with it, but we came across a +2 Scimitar of Speed and my little bard has been shredding everything with that. Find Greater Steed is a no-brainer, but I'm going to find it difficult to not pick up Haste at level 10. Holy Weapon would be amazing damage with the bonus action attack I have with the Scimitar of Speed, but Haste on the mount as well? Difficult choice. Holy Weapon might win out in the end depending on what the group needs, and we might end up being able to craft/buy potions of speed as this campaign is intended to go to 20. Tons of good ideas for spells to pick up along the way in the video, Synaptic Static wasn't on my radar but looks fun!
Haste in melee is so dangerous. Concentration and risking a lost turn is way too much
I like the option of using a Dragonnel for find greater steed, has double attack, and it has flyby, tack that on with tensers transformation, your hard to hit, you can fly in and out of most creatures attack range.
An alternative that I think is worth considering over Spirit Guardians, or Holy Weapon for Magical Secrets is Spirit Shroud. It's a 3rd-level spell, casts as a bonus action, adds the same damage boost as Holy Weapon if cast at 5th-level, and prevents creatures you hit from any possible healing while reducing the speed of every enemy within 10 feet of you.
If wand to be extra "Anime" with it, Spirit Shroud also has some unique synergy with Steel Wind Strike. Any creature within 10 feet of you as you cast Steel Wind Strike would be eligible to also suffer the damage and effects of Spirit Shroud as well.
This looks like a pretty fun character to play, honestly.
I didn't expect to see this so soon
I never looked into sword bard before, but the flourishes seem like they would be a fun synergy with the battlemaster maneuvers. The book says you can do one flourish per turn, and one maneuver per attack.
I've been using the brides of Strahd in my CoS campaign to play with some exotic builds, like I made Volenta a shadow monk/totem barbarian. This could be something fun to do with Escher.
my favorite multiclass for a 20 lvl longsword build is 2 lvls paladin , 12 lvl swords bard using bard spells for smites if need be then 6 lvl hexblade with the feats dual wielder and mobile , charger , war caster. fighting styles include two weapon fighting ( from bard ) defense ( from paladin ) with custom lineage. mind you this a pure dps build.
So I know how much you want to love monks, and I do too. I'd love to see you make a build for a "better monk", just an unarmed puncher build that beats the monk! I imagine the best would be battlemaster but I really don't know for sure.
I like you showed your method of calculation
And the warframe reference, lol
The longsword is usually a generalist weapon (in systems with more involved melee systems) so it's fitting that the longsword build is a generalist itself.
Another couple of swords builds I think shouldn't be underestimated is Goblin (Tasha's) Beastmaster Ranger. You can ride your beast into battle with a long sword, get fury of the small and your beast is a bonus action attack, that becomes 2 bonus action attacks at level 11.Strength and wisdom are your high stats and 14 dex with 12 con still makes you durable. In addition you get all the typical ranger tricks. After level 11 You can always take a couple level dips in barbarian for rage if you want, and 2 level dips in fighter for a second fighting style and action surge. Or you can continue onto level 13 for 4th level spells and at 15th level you can share spells with your beast companion (aka your mount) so your buffs can affect them. Damage wise it also keeps up pretty well, but it does become a bit more MAD so less feats available, but as was noted before, feats are much less important with a long sword build.
Another build I felt was dismissed a little too quickly was the Wood Elf Sword Mercy Monk. It can wield the sword in 2 hands, gets a free bonus action unarmed strike, and can get more strikes with ki that scales with level, or provide some control. Mercy monks also provide some healing and environmental puzzle solving ability.
(Level 5 Mercy Monk, no ki expenditure does average damage of 17.23 per round. A round with flurry of blows deals 22.1 damage. A round with a single stunning strike (assuming the creature succeeds its save) deals 18.53. At 11, the damage is 19.825 with no ki expenditure (with 11 ki that comes back on short rest) and it is 28.925 with 1 point spent on flurry of blows thanks to hands of harm.
Ranger without hunters mark up and just beast at level 5 will deal 19.35 per round, with hunters mark it is 18.2 on the first round and 23.9 on subsequent rounds (assuming you don't have to move hunter's mark, which is a bad assumption, likely better to just attack with the pet.) At 11, pet gets double attack so damage becomes 26.5 if you put more into strength or 26.3 if you didn't. Unfortunately this does fall behind until level 13 when you get 4th level spells like guardian of nature when it becomes 36.6 after the first round of combat (only around 25 the first round). Becoming higher again at 15 with share spells making damage go to 36 on the first round now, and 48 every round after. I do wish I could figure out a way to make the transition from 10 to 11 feel less bad though, largely it is around level 9 because none of the 3rd level spells make a very large dent. Anyway these were just thoughts of other things you could try doing and does not take into account fury of the small since it is only a one time use (though to be fair so is guardian of nature). I am curious how much better this can be made, especially with multi-class options being an idea.
Edit: i think non-gloom stalker rangers and fist close range monks in general are decent longsword builds because they have a lot of uses for their bonus actions that are better than polearm master bonus action attack.
I find it bizarre you never thought of the dual wielder feat combined with two weapon fighting style
100% at 2:10 I love confirming design results years later after the fixes... I love that you show the math, this is what 1500 WOTC employees wont do.
Another good option if players are allowed to use it would be Bloodhunter. They have a lot of uses for their bonus action like Crimson Rite, Blood Maledicts, and subclass options, access to the Dueling fighting style, Extra Attack, and ways to contribute more than just raw damage with some tanking, casting, or utility features depending on the subclass. They could also pick up Hex and dipping into Warlock could buff their casting.
I personally like 2 levels of paladin and the rest in swords bard. The smites more than make up for the lacklustre damage from longsword. Bard gives you some great spells if you want to do something other than smite.
Dumb lil backstory idea for the algorithm.
As a child the PC saw a longsword hero or performer that really struck a chord with them. Maybe that swordsman saved them and their family, whatever the circumstance, it planted a deep admiration for and determination to become the greatest (long)swordsman in the world. But growing up the PC faced the same dilemmas and setbacks that optimizing a longsword build gives us as character builders. So they sought out and made a pact with a Hexblade to achieve those goals.
While you could use any patron and make it work, I thought of something that works well for a sentient weapon that also parallels the PC and reflects the Hexblade being the secondary class. The PC sought out a sentient Longsword who bided their time and learned from each of its weilders. Their shortcomings and their successes. It analyzed everything. It had aspirations to become the greatest blade of the realm but the mortals of this world are unable to tap into its power optimally. Through sheer will and determination it became able to siphon its power into like minded individuals and become their Patron and their blade. I imagine the PC being the first chosen to experience this Blades favor.
I would think a Beserker barbarian 5 would be best early. Reckless attack for crit potential, 3 attacks per round. You don’t really lose much until exhaustion lvl 3-and even then reckless attack counters the disadvantage.
If the Beserker ability said “once per day while raging you get a bonus action attack, but suffer disadvantage on ability checks until you long rest” people would consider it more often.
I think the down-rate on Booming Blade is well-chosen. It gets used in our games a fair bit, and I totally agree: it doesn't trigger much unless the creature has a reasonable motivation to move. In a surround and pound scenario, it almost never triggers. Players don't use mobility enough IME. Longstrider IS an amazing spell, but you would never know it!
Really nice build, thanks!
It's nice you released the video nonetheless, it's possible the Dungeon Dude was simply inspired by your previous video. Although I don't like DnD 5 focus on having spells being so much better and encouraging ppl to have full casting unless they go for Martial DPR build.
I've been playing a similar build since December 2021, at level 5 now. In the end I chose Lore Bard instead of swords Bard, partly because it fit better for my group, but also because it lets me pick up Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon at level 7 and Steel Wind Strike at level 11.
This is what I actually do on my character 2 years ago. Hexblade/Sword bard cool magic longsword user
Holy weapon on swords bard ain't bad
Many thanks for your very good information video
of course a full caster would make a great sword and board build xD
TENSERS TRANSFORMATION SHARED WITH THE GREATER STEED
As someone that has played a lot of Warframe I love the Nova Warframe art
Hexblade 12 oathbreaker 8 double dips charisma plus dueling plus life drinker, puts you at 5+5+5+2= 17 before rolling any dice, 23 if the target is cursed so 2(23 + 1d8) add holy weapon because you have access to those spells and a+3 longsword and your at 2(26+3d8)= 79 points of damage on average if you hit both your attacks and not including any smites you may use, but this would work better with the bigger weapons and doesn’t include race bonuses like aasimar.
Hey, Chris, did you give any thought to my trident comment from your last video?? I think you’re the man for the job lol.
I may have missed that comment or forgotten it, can you refresh my memory?
@@TreantmonksTemple This was my comment: “I’ve been very vocal about the Trident in the past. It’s a damn shame it was left out of the Polearm Master feat. It doesn’t have anything unique to it whatsoever. I figured the Triton race would’ve been proficient with it and maybe even increased the damage die? Nope! Lol. You can throw it and pair it with the Artificer Infusion, the Eldritch Knight BA ability, or even the BattleMaster Quick Toss maneuver, but still very lackluster all together. I just wish there was a dedicated Retiarius subclass - the classic trident and net gladiator. So, please Chris would you mind dedicating a video to our boy the 🔱?”
@@Himothy_Wayne Ah. You're right, the Trident has really been excluded from everything good. It's basically a spear except it's a martial weapon, costs more, and doesn't qualify for Polearm Master. I won't be doing a special video I think because it would basically be my last two videos with each time I say "longsword" it would be replaced with "trident"
@@TreantmonksTemple you know what that’s totally understandable. I think down the road a discussion is warranted though lol. Even if there was, at the very least, a feat added for disarming purposes. I know the BM maneuver can do it but it’d be a cool addition to the trident. It’s a damn shame it’s looked at as this unwanted stepchild of the weapon selections. You’d think in the MOoT book they’d give a nod to it. So yeah idfk maybe people can re-flavor it into a pitchfork lmao.
For burst damage (also good total damage) you have to look at the new Bug Bear race. Echo Knight 11 (get to 20 Str, fey touched gift of alacrity), Gloom Stalker 3, Divine Soul 4 (quicken booming blade, alert feat), Paladin 2. +10.5 to Initiative, 20AC, 20 Str, 13 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Wis, 13 Char, 22d8 from Bug Bear (+8d8 rd2 if surprise), 29d8 from 10 smites.
19:15 Dissonant Whispers can trigger War Caster OAs.
I split the difference at level 11 by taking steel wind strike & spiritual weapon & grab spiritual guardians from a background.
Hexblade 2 / Bard flavor of choice is my favorite build in 5e.
I’m going to take Simulacrum, but not to break my DMs game. I just want a traveling band to play background music for my bard.
Lucklly the last longsword video inspired me to homebrew a Longsword feat for my players
Great video
Funny, I had been wondering why people don't talk about the hexblade dip for College of Swords and two channels I follow do it back to back.
As I posted there, I have a similar setup planned out and built, but using a spear and polearm master instead of Fey-Touched. I didn't quite put as much focus on you into maximizing weapon damage, however, treating the Attack Action as a souped-up cantrip. This does have the notable benefit of weaponizing my reaction significantly more often, with Booming Blade making for a beautiful opportunity attack.
I instead loaded up on the usual bard standouts and a few new ones - I took Hypnotic Pattern and Slow, added Evard's Black Tentacles and Spirit Guardians. Otherwise our builds are quite similar, although you reach 20 CHA first.
As for why you'd bother to attack once Spirit Guardians is up rather than dodge, two reasons. First some damage is still more than no damage, and second I want Defensive Flourish. Depending on the size of the Inspiration Die it should be fairly similar in effect to Dodge anyway. This gets even more valuable once you can do it every round using a d6.
I am currently just playing a blade singer and flavor a rapier as a longsword.
Could have picked up mounted combatant after getting find greater steed. Pretty reliable advantage on all attacks and defensive option for the steed.
A small trick that works well at low level is Telekinesis with booming blade. While the 5 foot shove does not trigger the extra damage to get back into melee would. Just something to think about as even with our the damage move them a little each round that you do not do something else with your bounse adds up to some battle feild control and combos with other.
P.S. I do think this build make the best Gish to play.
sure, it works, but as you put more and more things together that happen every attack, it quickly gets outclassed.
If I understand it right, telekin would replace fey touched, right?
level1-4, 1d8 secondary dmg vs 1d6 hex/mark dmg
5-6(asuming dip) 1d8 on hit + 2d8 secondary dmg vs 1d6 hex/mark
level 7: 1d8 on hit + 2d8 secondary dmg vs 2d6+2
not to mention it uses your BA every time to even attempt it
Really weird that this came out when it did - I just got done building a character very similar to this, except:
- I dropped hexblade and picked up two levels of paladin for smites, heavy armor, great weapon fighting, and about a dozen free spells
- I took War Caster, GWM, and PAM
- I took Orzhov Representative for some extra spell list versatility (also because one of our party members owes the syndicate some money...)
- I'll be grabbing and using tensers transformation for use in those battles that require that a particular opponent die immediately (that advantage on attack will be really nice with GWM)
Kinda feels like I built Cloud Strife.
I'm picturing a HexBard riding a Pegasus with a longsword in its mouth and both under Tenser's Transformation 🤣
I do not understand why there isn't an official Sword Master feat.
Here's the one I came up with. (not fully happy with it yet)
Sword Mastery
While wielding a Sword(Dagger, Greatsword, Longsword, Rapier, Scimitar, or Shortsword) you gain the following benefits:
-When you parry an attack you gain the upper hand on your enemy. Whenever a creature misses you with a melee weapon attack, your next weapon attack with a Sword against the creature gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus.
-Your quick sword movements and faints can stagger a target. When you hit a creature with an attack using a Sword you can forgo dealing damage to instead stagger them. The creature must make a Constitution saving throw DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier, on failure the creature is unable to take reactions and attacks against the creature have advantage until the end of your turn.
-When you strike an enemy perfectly you flourish to bolster your defense. After striking a creature with a critical hit you gain the benefits of the dodge action until the start of your next turn.
@@TheAlGoreRhythm999 Here what I came up with on Chris's last video.
Sword Master:
When using a sword type (short sword, long sword, rapier, scimitar) weapon in making an Attack Action, you can make a pommel strike as a bonus action for 1d4 damage.
Longswords are considered a finesse weapon for you.
Once per round you can add your Proficiency Bonus to the damage of a sword type weapon. This bonus damage is doubled if using a longsword with both hands.
On a Critical Hit you can make an additional attack using your reaction.
@@brettmajeske3525 I would change the additional attack from reaction to bonus action, except for that it's a solid homebrew feat
You can easily boost your damage at 6th Level by having the Strixhaven Prismari or Quandrix Backgrounds to get access to the Haste spell.
Yeah, this is difficult. I almost envy the weapon specific feats of 2e and 3 5. Here's a challenge: Try making a magical pugilist. The sheer number of things that don't work is discouraging at best.
Yeah, that's super tough
Just gotta point out, this is almost exactly your old Jack of All Trade build, just updated for TCoE content and with the two extra levels in warlock pulled out (one level of which most people were saying you should drop even when you made that video). Don't get me wrong, I love that build and am glad to see an update, just surprised you didn't acknowledge this anywhere in the video.
I wonder if there is a way to get even better results with an INT based gish. Maybe Battlesmith Artificer 3 / Psi-warrior Fighter 3 / Bladesinger Wizard 14? Definitely would want to start with the 3 levels of Artificer. Not sure when to do the others. Feel like it should win out in sustainable weapon dpr (especially if your DM interprets the Bladesinger extra attack to let you use Booming Blade, even if only making one attack with Haste). BB using INT for +5, with another +5 from Song of Victory, +2 from Dueling fighting style, and often D6 +5 from Psionic Strike, twice in a turn plus an additional normal weapon attack with the same bonuses seems good.
No matter what you do, Spear and Shield with Polearm Master and the Dueling fighting style is always gonna beat the Longsword.