Crazy Client Requests.....
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2024
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It’s crazy that a mix engineer spends so much time honing his ears and skills, so much money on gear, speakers and acoustic treatment and then someone with zero mixing experience is telling them how a song should be mixed. That’s the biz.
❤😂😂Yeah like our most UA-cam engineer
It’s crazy that an artist should have an opinion on how their song should sound 🙄
@@officialWWMhe’s talking about like, professional mixing techniques and stuff, not overall sound.
@@metaldemonseanknelsAgreed. As an artist, I’m always blown away by how good an initial mix is. I consider mixing and mastering on par with my craft of songwriting.
Young Artists do three things wrong-
1. Listen TOO closely and too many times.
2. Ask friends for feedback. People will find something wrong, because you ASKED THEM.
3. Hide their voice or take offense to ‘I think we should cut the guitar solo in half’
@@jeffrey.a.hanson and they also listen on cheap equipment or laptop/phone speakers and don’t know what to look for
Its the "more reverb" folks that are the worst offenders. 😂
Oh dude tell me about it. Reverb where it doesn't need to be. Reverb where it doesn't make sense. Don't care, MOAR REVERB!
...I am halfway through 'fixing' a 20 track project that went overboard on reverb and sounds absolutely horrid anywhere you play it and I wanna unalive.
One interesting solution: there is a recent Rick Beato interview with Steward Copeland from The Police, and Stewart said that each band member was in charge of mixing decisions for a different instrument, and NOT in charge of their own. So the drummer could comment on the guitar levels, and the singer could comment on the drum levels, etc. This way no band member could monopolize the final studio mix for themselves.
That’s genius
if I can't say anything about the volume level of my instrument, I ask that all other instruments be turned down or even muted
@@tarvotiivits1392You're not getting it man..
@@ColtCapperruneRight?? I'm trying that next time around. The everyone's phone goes in the basket thing worked haha.
Great idea. Probably i would say make bass louder in every situation 😂 i love bass.
A lot of these crazy client requests come from poor listening environments from the client
Agreed!!
Good interpretation. The customer isn’t always right, but They are Never Wrong.
That’s a great way to put it!
@@ColtCapperrune It’s also funny that they all think they’re the only one!
(I’m a retired plumber)
I had a client take the mix, throw like 80% reverb on the master track and then asked to put that much reverb on the track.
It was an amazing ballad…. Then drowned in reverb to the point it just sounded like wash
Them: "Make it worse than the 1980s."
You: Say no more!
This is a great case of leave it to the professionals.
Yeah. The musicians who wrote the song and have a sound idea in their mind you mean right? The good thing is, we can mix at home. We don’t really need someone else to turn the knobs.
This is the most humbling and sometimes the most difficult part of mixing and producing. At the end of the day we have to remind ourselves that it's their project, not ours. Give the client what they want and keep it pushing.
At this point, we need mix engineer support groups where we all hang out and talk about client issues 😂
I often keep vocals on the quieter side on a first mix because I know - especially if I’m mixing for a singer-songwriter - they will always ask for the vocal to be louder no matter what. Usually, by the first revision, the vocal is actually at a level I’m happy with, and the singer feels good because they got to ask for the vocal to be louder 😅
I just wouldn’t argue with them. Just invite them over, pretend to turn some knobs around, leave things as they were initially and tell them that it’s done. They would most probably think that things were changed even if there was no change. It’s just psychological sometimes
It’s crazy but you’re right about 90% of the time.i still be mad though lol
Most professional artists don't fall for that
@@beatarcheologzt but most professional artists would trust the engineer. I doubt Beyoncé or Taylor Swift tell the mixing engineer what frequencies to boost or cut
This happened to me with one band that I've worked with for 14 years... they wanted the bass cranked, but it actually helped me to relearn to mix bass and now I nail it every time moving forward : )
LOL Bass player mix.... I had a client with a song that sounded exactly like "Massy Star" "Fade into you" and even said she wanted that vibe, Then when I sent her the first mix, she said "this is all wrong, it does not sound like Bluegrass at all!!!" That was one of the few times I cut and run... 25years of doing this full time, that's a stand out.
1 client want me to "turn up the shakers, I can't hear them! " every revision, more and more, It sounded like I was standing in a football field with the sprinklers on... Turns out he can not hear above 4k.
It’s because the musicians usually hear themselves louder in front of their amps or instruments. They have a skewed perception or perspective. I was guilty of this once as a bass player mixing an album with too much bass because I always heard too much of myself at rehearsal and gigs.
Same here, but sometimes I’m guilty of the exact opposite: mixing bass too soft because I know about my tendency to let too much low end.
No, it’s just ego crap. Everyone in the band thinks they are the most important component. They all need to realise that a band is only as good as their drummer. And I’m a singer/ guitar player!
The bass guitar player must have been paying for the album😂
I had a client just last year, it was a classical recording client, but I also mixing. It was song cycle for baritone voice and piano. But the piano was a Yamaha C5 and it was voiced quite dark, sounded surprisingly lush in person, but definitely not like a full concert grand. In the mix, the client wanted an insane amount of brightness. Really far away from what this piano sounded like. By the time we go through revisions, it was so bright and upper mid heavy, it went from really lush and supporting the voice to sound like a tinny casio keyboard. But the client was happy as a clam and recommended me to a bunch of other people. And so it was...
i definitely agree with all of these points. as an engineer, you have a qualification to do the work that your clients haven't. they can't replace you on balance or any other technical decisions, because it's up to you. but they should take their music vision as a wav file, so the best way to do our part of the job is to take care of their vision. we shouldn't take any feedback literally and implement exactly what they say, like "make it +3 dB louder", we should understand what they want to accomplish instead.
the first thing that comes to my mind when client wants to make something louder is that i have not enough compression on it. so i don't touch the level fader 99% times, i just squash this track a bit more and clients enjoy it
Can't wait for your studio build video. I hope it's a long, in-depth video.
As an architect I run into this exact same problem. May it be a aesthetic choice, room composition, or flow between spaces, or even furniture layout.
I am the expert in this situation but the client has their wants thoughts and ideas. At the end of the day it's not my building, the owner owns the building and they have to live with it.
A mix engineer is an ARTIST too! So many people neglect this when hiring a mix engineer. You hire a professional for their taste, because you are looking for that finishing touch. Artist’s egos are out of control these days.
That button is called "Primadonna killer" :D
It probably comes from the fact they are listening on a system that isn't a great reference and don't trust you verse what they have been listening through. like that bass was probably because their listening experience has lacked a bass presence and they haven't heard it when its in a good listening enviorment.
😢😊😢2😊
Yes. The era where we reference mixes on PHONE SPEAKERS and judge from there is upon us, sadly.
I’ve been here.. passion projects and friends. Hard to not agree on a mix. Especially if you’re just starting and not charging. It’s all about your name
Best business advice ever. Engineers have a business and gotta run it like a business.
These situations almost made me quit mixing for other people at all.. good to hear others have the same “problems”. I agree that the best thing you can do is to try to make it to work best for both parties. And to find out what exactly is the real problem. Most of the times it is just a case of 1 or 2 moves to fix 10 issues.
It's crazy until someone else does it and becomes a big hit.
success legitimizes
It won't
@@gavinhammond3137 Metallica's St. Anger snare drum. QED.
My first question every time is “what are you listening on?”
spam ^^^ @coltcapperune
The challenge we have as mixers is if they love your playlist and want to work with you, but their recording isn’t recorded very well….lol…that’s a tricky thing.
Yeah man, I have sadly recently had to tell a friend that his tracks aren't usable and we have to do them over. It hurts both sides when that happens.
@@WilDBeestMF yeah those situations hurt - thats why I need to hear their rough before I begin, to save myself the trouble.
That definitely happens a whole bunch
Pro Engineer here for 4 decades, I feel your pain🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 sooo many people don’t have a clue, and get very arrogant.
Such a relief to know that I’m not the only one with such experiences
one thing that I usually do is to make the artist listen to the project with my alternative vs what they wanted and decide togheter, especially when i’m working with younger artists
I always ask for a reference of as close to what they want in the mix.
If they wanted that much bass I would ask for a reference of that kind of mix. (They probably wouldn’t find one though) I would’ve also asked what they were listening on.
Obviously if they are only listening on an iPhone they really aren’t going to hear much of the bass even if it’s a well mixed song.
In the end I do exactly as you do and just say how can I split the difference and make us both happy. Luckily I am where this doesn’t really happen anymore and I can choose who I work with.
My workaround for cell phone listeners is to listen on my phone and add light saturation to the high end of the bass until it sits correctly
I'm convinced this guy loves to talk about himself and hear himself talk.
The thumbnail got me lol
lol. That would be me and Geddy, “More BASS”.
Great share, Colt! This is experience and wisdom that only comes with time. 👏🏻
You've turned into "Must See YT" for me. Great stuff, such a fan.
Really appreciate it!
@@ColtCapperrune
IT would BE interesting to know innehat Kind of System they listen to their music
Maybe they listen on a Situation where frequuencies eliminate
I dont know If a band does know about mixing and science of Sound itself , plus room acoustics
If you want to Turn Up the Bass this much then they maybe listen in an Bad Environment
But they all need to have an mp3 Player a boombox or sth Like that
The Last possibility IS that their ears are destroyed because of Life Performance or constant loud music Penetration
@@ColtCapperrune
Within Platinum productions and many artists many Songs will pass several Producers and mixing mastering engineers professionals
This IS because some of the Hardware they use is Not available in a certaun Studio
And so some touch in frequencies cant reach a Point
Theres some mixing Legends they built an own console IS Just making Things Sound incecibly different
And i think everyone of the mixing pros should BE named
Cause they Dont start off at the raw Material in These cases
They Just Put some Hardware in the already high quality Mix
Or they Take specific Instruments to improve sth
I once listened to a Song of Mine with a Venezuela Professional Singer from Classic , is known in Venezuela was Background Singer of some of the biggest Stars
Im Not in This industry , im producing music and improve myself
But he send the Mix to two different mixing professionals
One Mix was warm , one Mix was clear and Bit too cold
So i asked If they can com ine their mixing
But This was Not possible because one of them was Hurt and got furstrated
To me i cant understand
I would Always agree , and then See how WE can adjust This
Because i can learn from IT how to solve This issue myself and the Other Person too
Maybe they Other Professional git some custmers need some of my flovour in the Mix
So i can Put some Sauce to IT
ITS realy great and a huge compliment If i will Mix a whole Song of Album for Someone suceed
But to me ITS no fight
I fight myself to become better
And even This IS Not necessary cause of you relax and you think about IT and you Research you will Always rely on the experiences of Other
The ones WHO built your Hardware IS the ones giving you the Things you can do what they think ITS good for music
And they can all Mix and wrote you what IT IS all about
Good Advice Colt... Everything you said is true... I go through it all the time. Thank You For Your Awesome Videos
Great topic. The typical "please don't mention my name" is a solution when you need the job. Sometimes the chemistry is just not right. This transfers to many other creative jobs.
Interesting point of view that makes sense. I’d like to add something: there’s a difference between a client asking you to make odd/poor decisions, and a BAD client. The former is often just uneducated or unintentionally unrealistic. A bad client does not respect you, your skills or your time. I have had my share of the former, and fortunately not too many of the latter. But I have never once seen the latter turn into a decent repeat client that makes putting up with their bs worth it. You never hear from them again not because they went somewhere else, but because they were so unpleasant they never got another project together. I these cases I just thanked god they disappeared.
I fully agree man, nothing worse that a client with "stupid" choices that makes everything sound horrible.
"Bro, I listened to your mix on my phone while walking through an airport and it needs more low end..."
Love your content man. I love it when I see a Colt Capp notification come up.
Bass player wants the bass up, guitarist wants the guitar up, drummer wants the drums up, keyboardist wants the keyboards up and vocalist wants the vocals up.
Only the person not invested in those parts can really tell what’s needed. LISTEN.
Hi Colt, A client recently let me go because essentially, I worked too fast (just for this particular client). I became a production partner as opposed to just an engineer, and I started giving him too much information. Based on my own inspiration to help his songs, I was feeding him too many choices that he couldn't keep up with (he only wanted 1 version/session), as opposed to whenever ideas came to me. Basically, he could not make a decision quick enough before another version hit his desk, and he became overwhelmed. I now know that was probably a mistake, but how could I have handled that differently, as his project would have many months to complete. Thanks for your input, i really appreciate it!
i bet was the bassist paying the job 😅😂🤣
Thanks for the insight. This may save alot of engineers
I learned with live mixing small clubs, if the bass player or guitar player want to crank their stage volume, you just let the singer know that their vocal will be buried and noone will hear them. Things seem to work themselves out from there.
Colt, this is very interesting information. I find it admirable as to how you chose to dig deeper with your mixing vs taking your name off the project to solve this problem. Wow! what a great video. Thanks!
This was a perfectly timed video haha I literally just had this experience haha
This is a cool and helpful video!!!! I have had this issue a few times. I have had good clients and sometimes I have had random request from some of them. Some clients like to use reference tracks of previous recordings or someone they look up to. Sometimes I have had to let the project go and sometimes those people will come back because another Engineer couldn't do it the way I was suppose to mix it for them. I recently had clients that record/mix their stuff then had me to tweak and master it for them. The list goes on but I took it all as an experience!!!
This is interesting!! I agree with the majority of these points. I am curious about what will happen when we begin providing more Atmos mixes for labels... I have had conversations with a guys in the industry that mention not accepting work strictly up-mixed from stems, rather than multi-tracks. I think COVID really messed up a lot of Atmos mixes when all most people had were headphones. With this new format growing, I don't plan on accepting projects in this manner, and giving false impressions on what Atmos really is. No rush jobs, no junk, no deal... Maybe I am wrong for that mindset, but I have high and low hopes for Dolby Atmos for this exact reason.
My philosophy and questioning is as follows: "Should I accept an MP3 for mastering?", "If I was asked to mix stems that already had processing on them, should I refer them to someone that would best fit their needs?" Mixing is an art form in itself. If it can't be fixed in 3 revisions, then I would advise to find someone that is could potentially understand what the client is needing. Thus, not sacrificing our integrity as professional mixing engineers. 3 strikes, you're out buddy!! Great content Colt. Excited for your Atmos studio.
Love getting a new track in to mix and right off the bat the artist sends a list of reference mixes in completely different genres. Doesn't help me know what you want but it does let me know I'm not achieving it without 5 revisions lmao
Good video, Colt. Reminds me of a time my band did a three song demo in Pekin, IL and I thought the lead solos needed to be more prominent in the mix. The engineer wasn’t as experienced as you so, I may have been right but…, I may not have been. Your video made me realize that no matter the experience of the one you’re paying, you are still paying them to do their job. Let them do it.
Hahaha! The thumbnail alone is hilarious!!
A true professional right here! I'm a professional artist. This is exactly where I've ended up in my career as well. I actually try to put all of my personal opinions aside and treat all clients individually and create something always special for them. It's always great if I enjoy the end product, but at the end of the day, I'm not doing the work to make myself happy. I'm only trying to make the client happy and help their business grow. If I accomplish that, I could care less what the end product looks like. I've accomplished the task at hand for the client. It's a JOB! Being creative and trying to meet the clients goals in a creative and professional way when it seems impossible is the trick and where true professional talent lies. That's the real WORK!
Great advice as always!
The best UA-camr by far
Really appreciate that!
Yup, same with me doing Home Improvements. There have been times that customers want me to do something that Looks horrible so I tell them,I’ll do it but don’t tell anyone that George did it! Very similar w/ your Topic. ( we do it for the $$$ ) My referrals & Start Dates are Booked way In advance so I good. Again this is for Home Improvements)
I know this isn't an exact comparison, but what would you do in the case of a critical safety issue? Sacrificing the integrity to fall apart as time goes on, as technology improves, etc. With home improvements, would you ignore the concern for something that that could fall back on you in years time? (Don't worry, I won't tell anyone that George did it!! haha)
@@alex_ayers you better not TELL😜☺️☺️☺️( not sure exactly what your pertaining to? ) I do it all mainly Kitchen & Bath Remodels that where people get a great return when selling but I do everything to CODE. Same as the rest of my family… we all own our on Business ( G. Contractors ) 👍
@@GeorgeAmodei21 I guess the "up to code" to me would be like labels expecting a mix to be a certain quality, but instead of paying for the quality and providing all of the tracks in a song necessary to "mix a song." I think in your instance, it would be more relative to commercial business rather than someones personal home in terms of remodel. In my case, I mix in Dolby Atmos, and not having the entirety of the tracks can potentially ruin the potential for the format to grow and expand, with it being so new. Standards may be different later on compared to what it is now. I think preparing for the worst case scenario for a mix in a professional environment is important to me. Is something up to code? Yes!! Will it potentially withstand the need for future remodeling? I may be overthinking it!! I really enjoy planning ahead for getting things right and keeping it right for years to come.
@@alex_ayers ok, you WIN. I don’t have time to go back and forth. Thank you 🙏 George
Honestly producers should go way more hard on the revision rule as a unit.
Some producers goes "unlimited revisions, free of charge", which seems freaking crazy to me.
It's like asking for a depression.
If they don't like it after mix 10 maybe both sides needs to realize that their partnership isn't working.
Pay the producer for his hours of work and find another producer if it's really that important.
Funny enough it never is.
Bless all producers for being so patient, but sure as hell I wouldn't have the patience or empathy for it.
Another trick that seems to work with my clients is using a modified Andrew scheps rear buss technique. and it goes like this: The client is going to ask for some changes and even if I dont agree with them ill do it, but then ill do the rear buss technique with my own balance and choices, and blend them with the original. so far is been working like a charm and sometimes the mixes result even better than what they wanted or what I was having in mind.
I usually ask for a reference if someone is asking for some (what seems to be) absolutely crazy change in a mix. I ask "can you send me an example, some other band's recording?" and then I know 100% what I should do and if it's even possible to make it like they want it from the material that they have sent. If I can't do it it's usually because of poor arrangement choices, not so much because it's recorded badly
Hahahaha thank god there wasn’t a cowbell…they would want more cowbell too lol much love bro!
absolutely right....
It almost makes no sense to make revisions if the client isn’t actually in the studio listening to what you’re hearing. Mixes should be able to translate, but God knows what they are listening back on to give you notes, i.e., a phone speaker, while telling you to turn up the bass. Defeats the purpose of having great monitoring and a treated room if they’re not there to hear it.
Colt has mentioned on his channel before that he likes the idea of having 3 revisions max, and I stand by this. Even if you are just starting out (in my opinion). There are plenty of free resources out there to practice mixing to improve skills without having to get involved in a professional sale of services. I try to ask what kind of listening environment the client is listening to, even on the first revision. I want to help my client get a correct representation of the music. I actually love when clients listen to their music in their car. Usually that will be the listeners best and known listening environment :)
I understand where you are coming from but I came up in the 90s as I'm sure you did Colt and I basically learned from the Alibini & JJP school of tracking and mixing. The band is always right even if its wrong. If I want to micromanage a project I'll make my own album but for the band SHOCK COLLAR or Mojo Filter Kings I'm doing what they want because its their album. If they want something I think is terrible, I'll ask them to come in I'll pull the mix up and I'll say tell me what you want adjusted and write it on a piece of paper as the song plays. I then take the time to do the things they want while also trying to get the sound thats in their head out in the mix. If they are nuts just ask them to come in face to face they will leave happier (virtual is ok if you have too). But I'm also tracking80% of the things I mix!
Engineering Prenup..
Ultimately, we are a service provider. In most cases, the client is always right because it's subjective, like more verb or louder BGV's. Recently, I had a first time client that was dead set on something that would have been a train wreck; like off the bridge burst into flames scenario. After explaining why the client's idea was like "putting ketchup on a $150 steak," fell on deaf ears; I simply said, "I don't feel I am the right person for this project" and I meant it. A day later, the client changed his mind so I am mixing his project. You never know...
Hey Colt… it’s the same in the Photoshop retouch and visual effects industry… and many others. You’re in the majority!!! :)
Talking lawfully, i think at least here in Brazil there's a law that you can just refuse to do somethings that you know would make the quality of your service worst
Thanks for your wisdom.
That’s awesome -sometimes they go sideways.. about 15 years ago I started taking on clients, and I realized that “this was not gonna be the way for me. I’m too right-brain artist. My little brother has a studio up in Nashville, working with some heavy hitters… But he is the patient one. i’m too much an artist. I would probably be telling you to turn the Bass up. 😝 but no, I engineer in the studio all day that’s all I do. You can check me out same handle there’s a picture of me and Tupac on my newest one.. You’re killing it Colt you’re killing it👍🏼
Number. 6
Obviously the "artist" you're referring to, was listening out of a cellphone or laptop speakers. Where you lose a couple octaves of low frequencies. I had that exact scenario happen to me with a client. They came into the studio and heard what they asked for and said there was WAY too much bottom end...😅
I think this is my favorite hat of yours
You just needed to add a little distortion to the bass guitar to bring out the clarity
I was thinking the same thing about the bass, most people want more mid range on it when they say turn up the bass. Who knows what they are listening on?
Bass and kick should collab👌
I honestly give them what they want but tell them right away (when not liking their wish) that this is a bad decision….on the other hand when they like their idea i let them know to not put my name on the record….what I’ve learned is that this is possibly not a good idea, but its my job to satisfy the customer and not myself…even if its the wrong way doing it…my job is also letting them know what could happen but ppl are always happy…50 % of the time i was able to agree on taking it back a step and i could live with it the other 50% just didnt mention me which is fine…note: act as professional as possible but still try to teach them…because they don’t know better ♥️
More cowbell please !! 😁
In other videos I’ve seen you have the vocalist mic in the console room. How do you record vocals in the console room without getting feedback from studio monitors into the vocal mic?
Just monitor them through headphones while tracking.
The rule is you can’t have your name on it. But if it blows up you can’t have your name on it either
Thats a mix by proxy, put them as the mix engineer and take assistant credit. Its art it may create a new sound.
Bottom line in business “The customer is always Right “
From a mixer standpoint, it can all still lie in the matter of proper mix translation, not just being forced to make stupid decisions to make them happy. From their perspective, the sound lacks something.
I wonder how far you can go with some crazy expensive monitors, mixing in different environment, gaining a new perspective to get in their shoes easier. How far you can come to their perspective with different means, without just doing things you have to without being convinced to it.
Make the bass louder than the vocal??? Session over!
Is your website down? Just tried the link 3x's, not working.
My response, okay no worries boss DONE lol
Don't take comments like "bass guitar up". Get them to give you a reference such as another song that sounds like what they want. Non engineers aren't the best at communicating what they want. Chances are the reference they give you has a much different tone, or something that makes sense at least.
What do you do if the client ghosts you and you have a finished song that is well done?
They just sit on a hard drive indefinitely. I probably have 100 or 120 songs like that from my entire career. Granted, most of the session Files won’t even open since they are from such old systems. But if they ever contact me and want it, they can have the session file and they can figure it out themselves. Just a way to cover my own ass.
@@ColtCapperrune The artist was unfair to the producer. Does the producer have some rights of the song he produced? Could he release the song giving credits to the artist? I mean the artist by ghosting him gives a message he does not care for the song anyway... I am not sure If its unethical or at least more unethical than the ghosting.
Use reverb on sub bass
Reverb on the mix bus even lol
I’ve had a mixing client that wanted phaser on the mix bus. I said no that’s completely insane
@@j.charleshiggins5503a phaser on mix bus as an effect for an intro or some specific part of a song is ok, but not for all the song or album. 😂
The entire song, to me the volume fluctuations alone were to drastic and the low end cutting in and out
I could never approve that sound with my name on it
Nice .. But at my level I recreate, break the rules .. make the song better than their expectations...
Is your website hacked??
its my name on the mix, production, etc it has to meet my standards as well i wont do anything that makes me look bad no matter what then client says
Where this gets tricky though, is that we are talking about art. And there technically is no right and wrong in art. So we all need to leave the door open for the possibility that what we think is good might not actually be good. That’s why it’s important to be flexible.
@@ColtCapperrune im much older than you i dont have the patience anymore lol but ya i get it
Your website is being redirected to crap that is not you.
People will sabotage their own projects rather than completely hand off their baby. They will pay you to say yes, then position you as the fall guy _(their safety net for failure)_.
🤣😂🙄
It's the scene from boogie nights. "You got the touch"
🎉2nd lol🎉
Aaaaaaand BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!! 😜🙏🏻
1st comment lets go!!
You got it, thank you for being here!
@@ColtCapperrune Thanks for the wisdom and advice!