Awesome vid and great info on breeding a winner.. Yes, we are breeding around a son of Iron Clad paired to a daughter of Iron Clads daughter, when Iron Clad was paired to "Kwan Klein", his own moms sister. If you can make sense of that one (IC son bred to his niece).. LOL. Also two grandchildren of Iron Clad as well that are paired up. The 'Martinez Classic' will be a fun one for sure, hopefully we both have birds that make it to the final race for the festivities at the end. 🙂
What a lot of people don’t know is that they could have a Super Pigeon living in their loft right now that they are totally overlooking because they are only able to spot the outer performance traits but don’t have a clue about how to recognize the inner traits like Charisma and Aura You see in order to identify these traits You have to have those observant eyes that can cut straight through the fluff right down to the heart and spirit of the bird and see the raw potential that it’s concealing (Famous Fanciers like Piet de Weerd and Leo Hermans had that ability) then once You have identified this Anomaly You have to know exactly how to test and train it to bring out it’s winning qualities to work in Your favor and give You the results that You want, but other than that the only other way You can get one is by pure luck similar to winning the lottery or something and if You do come across a fancier that has Super Pigeons he will sell You the offspring (and as we already know there are no guarantees with those) but he will never sell the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs ✨✨✨
My favorite time of year with pigeons. Each new pair is a surprise gift of what you're gonna get. As far as pairing, I don't care for stock but if I breed from stock I like to pair with ones who have raced well or produced well so I can eliminate stock birds that aren't up to par after a season.
Jim Ryan… RIP, he introduced me to pigeons. He had two lofts old bird / young bird. His old bird team bred the YBs. How did you pair up 33? Just curious🤔Happy New Year!
@@littleloftonthehill paired her to her great grandsire. He has produced some super racers, including her granddam. His sire was 6th at SAMDPR final in 2017 and dam was 18th at Victoria Falls final 2018.
So you say I have a chance. Awesome video. Keep bring knowledge to us newcomers and grow the sport. New flyers can become very discouraged real quick. Especially us with sweatpants on(no pockets, much less deep pockets ). Ps . My first 2024 is coming to you Tom !!!
Aye brother Dennis I believe u have a better advantage then most of the newbees. u bred dogs, that's and advantage, so line bred your best and once in while, throw in a bad ass champion, you'll be higher up on the charts before u know it
Thanks, I actually had talked about you. You have to test the birds anyway you can. Even if you have to drive them yourself💪👍The video was 30 minutes and way too long. I edited that part out. I will save it for your intro when I get your bird in the loft.
Happy holidays to you as well have a great breeding season, I also want to thank you for your videos even though I've been flying for over 10 years they are very informative.
Hello, my name is John Dietrich and I’m new to your channel. How does your one loft race work? I enjoyed your video and will be watching more soon. Have a good day!
I wish I had room for more birds… someday. This year 24 guys from all over the country are sending me a 5-6 week old squeaker. I will train and race them in my small club and combine YB series this fall. I will document what I can. Thanks for watching! All the best!
I do agreed 100% to cross first then keep the line intact. I pair the birds based on how similar pairings have done in the past, mainly by performance but also on pedigree. Yes some luck is needed too.
My head hurts after that explanation and I have the birds 😂😂, you more or less nailed it but Kevin would be better suited to articulate it. Nice video. I think best to best is the easiest way to go but from how it was explained to me breeding a daughter back to father or son back to mother helps retain almost 100% genetics which is how these guys build families of pigeons. If I explained that wrong someone correct me. The guy in my club who gave me the Mussolini’s was teaching me how to retain the genetics but after that sibling back to parent, that next set of baby’s needs to be crossed out with something and then produces a good racer hopefully.
@@littleloftonthehillso many roads, but in my very limited breeding experience I did notice my Mussolini’s (bred from a family) were my easiest to work with birds and most consistent but my best racers were the Mussolini’s I crossed with Dijkstra. This year I’m trying that again with the original Mussolini Dijkstra pair and I paired another Mussolini cock with a ludo Cleassen hen, if that second pair also produces superior birds then I need to work on identifying which blood crossed with the Mussolini best and I’ll be on to something 😂😂. If a year ago when I got into this if you asked me if I’d be this into genetics already I’d call you crazy lol. It’s all an experiment to try and produce, like you said, a very special bird.
I pair up the best that successfully flew the YB gauntlet of 8 races last fall. I also allow old pairs that bred good racers to continue breeding, and I pair up birds that are physically the best in my hands.
@@littleloftonthehill thx Tom! If the bank will permit… I may send a couple to OLR’s.. they will be the perfect age, by end of February… Loved your chat about ‘averages v’s 💰! Soo true… 1-100 chance.. be lucky my friend!! 👏👏🍀🍀🥳🥳
You just said it almost at the end, the genetics is luck. Don’t misunderstand me, you need a good pool of genes in your pigeons first, but the rest is luck. People think that you get 50% from mother and 50% from father, but in reality is more complicated than that, everything depends on which genes are dominant, recessive or co-dominant, the dominant genes will express over the recessive ones, so you need that the good genes are able to express in your offsprings, but genetics is not everything, a pigeon with super genes if doesn’t have the right health, food and training won’t get anywhere. At the end you need a lot of factors to be present at the same time to get a super pigeon.
To elaborate further on what Steve was mentioning below I will explain it in more detail... How to retain 100% genetic make up of a particular cock or hen you wish to keep a pure family with.. As an example we'll use Iron Clad (IC) himself as the main breeding cock here.. Firstly, you take a hen fathered by IC and breed her back to IC. Then you take a hen from that who is the granddaughter from that father to daughter pairing and breed her back to her grandsire IC. The offspring from that granddaughter to grandfather mating will have 100% of the genetic make up of Iron Clad himself.. In other words when you have that great-grandchild in your hand, you will be holding "Iron Clad" himself. Genetically that is. That bird will be a genetic clone of IC. You can switch the rolls around with a hen the same way, by breeding a "son" back to her and following the same steps for each generation... Hope that explains it. 🙂
@@pratheekbn4581from my understanding of it is that inbred “clone” will not be a good bird to fly, some have success flying inbred birds but you’re doing it to retain the genetics of a likely aging pigeon so that either is too old to be fertile or at the end of its life, so the way I’ve been explained it is that “genetic clone” then needs to be crossed with a completely unrelated bird and then that set of baby’s are your flyers with 50% genetic makeup of your original “champion”.
@@pratheekbn4581 .. If you do it generation after generation over time, maybe so, but this is just a 3 generation breeding to lock in a certain birds genetic makeup. It's not gonna happen in that short of time. Once you get that, you can outcross with other blood to use for racing if one wants to.
@@ausfuhrpramienjagar I watched numerous wild pigeon videos, stating that in the wild pigeons often mate with the opposite color ... Like I said just a wild theory
@@littleloftonthehill dude I can talk pigeon with you all day ! Going back to what u said going against genetics looking for a champion. This sport has gone so far that you can't tell the difference between male and female hardly most of the time it's a good guess really ..,.
given this is my first breeding season i cant really say i am even succeeding at what i was trying , yet... but! my goals for the first season was to get good birds, and for the most part- except for a couple pairs that i put together specifically? i am letting the birds pair up "at will" i hadnt expected splash daddy- who is unable to fly and has an injured wing- to win the heart of one of the best hens i have, but... they paired up, despite him being the only cock in that loft that couldnt fly! i figure if the matches are good- great! but if not? well i'm new and i have years head of me
Is splash daddy a racing homer? If so that pair will produce your best birds 😉 My mother is an avid quilter, she has a sewing room full of fabric. Every time I see your posts here or on other channels I think of her. I am not sure if your UA-cam name has anything to do with sewing/quilting/fabric but that is what I think of when I I see it 👍
I like it, I will bet you lunch I could find someone that says crosses have a purpose in the sport line bred families are overrated. Many roads to Rome 👍I think the best thing about a true line bred family is consistency in physical traits and racing performance
Not one but ten guys you can find lol !!! Those are the guys that get one maybe three birds on the drop? Imagine getting 8 to 15 birds on the drop? Family. Because birds of a feather fly together :). I believe they both are equally necessary to be successful...key word successful... Now if I'm constantly buying champions because everyone is telling me not to inbreed my current champion bird guess what I'm never getting out the whole .. especially bull breeding imagine buying a cock to 5 hens, that you know have champions in its blood, that are identical. The results are gonna be crazy . When I said over rated I meant in the since that it's the only way, when its not... And not to mention can turn a person away from the sport.
Good content as always! My best breeding advice is to look at the small lofts (
Awesome vid and great info on breeding a winner.. Yes, we are breeding around a son of Iron Clad paired to a daughter of Iron Clads daughter, when Iron Clad was paired to "Kwan Klein", his own moms sister. If you can make sense of that one (IC son bred to his niece).. LOL. Also two grandchildren of Iron Clad as well that are paired up. The 'Martinez Classic' will be a fun one for sure, hopefully we both have birds that make it to the final race for the festivities at the end. 🙂
🤞Happy New Year! Excited to see how things pan out this year.
@@littleloftonthehill.. Thanks, Tom.. Likewise and HNY!
What a lot of people don’t know is that they could have a Super Pigeon living in their loft right now that they are totally overlooking because they are only able to spot the outer performance traits but don’t have a clue about how to recognize the inner traits like Charisma and Aura You see in order to identify these traits You have to have those observant eyes that can cut straight through the fluff right down to the heart and spirit of the bird and see the raw potential that it’s concealing (Famous Fanciers like Piet de Weerd and Leo Hermans had that ability) then once You have identified this Anomaly You have to know exactly how to test and train it to bring out it’s winning qualities to work in Your favor and give You the results that You want, but other than that the only other way You can get one is by pure luck similar to winning the lottery or something and if You do come across a fancier that has Super Pigeons he will sell You the offspring (and as we already know there are no guarantees with those) but he will never sell the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs ✨✨✨
My favorite time of year with pigeons. Each new pair is a surprise gift of what you're gonna get. As far as pairing, I don't care for stock but if I breed from stock I like to pair with ones who have raced well or produced well so I can eliminate stock birds that aren't up to par after a season.
Jim Ryan… RIP, he introduced me to pigeons. He had two lofts old bird / young bird. His old bird team bred the YBs. How did you pair up 33? Just curious🤔Happy New Year!
@@littleloftonthehill paired her to her great grandsire. He has produced some super racers, including her granddam. His sire was 6th at SAMDPR final in 2017 and dam was 18th at Victoria Falls final 2018.
So you say I have a chance. Awesome video. Keep bring knowledge to us newcomers and grow the sport. New flyers can become very discouraged real quick. Especially us with sweatpants on(no pockets, much less deep pockets ).
Ps . My first 2024 is coming to you Tom !!!
My sweat pants have pockets… high roller 💰💰😎 I look forward to seeing what you send my way. All the best! Happy New Year!
Aye brother Dennis I believe u have a better advantage then most of the newbees. u bred dogs, that's and advantage, so line bred your best and once in while, throw in a bad ass champion, you'll be higher up on the charts before u know it
@@Rev792 Thank You 🙏🏼
I like the pigeon sitting close to your shoulder listening to you. I think he understands you, he is going to make champion babys for you.
He was saying wait a couple days… we won’t let you down. Both eggs hatched sometime since yesterday morning 👍🤞
great video bud, i like the conversational format and i love hearing breeding shop talk.
i hope that pair breeds you your champ. 💸
Thanks, I actually had talked about you. You have to test the birds anyway you can. Even if you have to drive them yourself💪👍The video was 30 minutes and way too long. I edited that part out. I will save it for your intro when I get your bird in the loft.
this is my first breeding season! i really hope to be competing in your OLR soon, but in the meantime i am just soaking up all the knowledge
Best of luck! Thanks for watching!
Great talk and lots of knowledge.,hope the new flyers pay attention
Thanks for watching
Happy holidays to you as well have a great breeding season, I also want to thank you for your videos even though I've been flying for over 10 years they are very informative.
Glad you enjoy them! Happy New Year
You so right...i can't even afford an electronic clock here in South Africa 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦😢😢😢😢😢
Thanks for watching! I hope you can get a clock sorted.
Hello, my name is John Dietrich and I’m new to your channel. How does your one loft race work? I enjoyed your video and will be watching more soon. Have a good day!
I wish I had room for more birds… someday. This year 24 guys from all over the country are sending me a 5-6 week old squeaker. I will train and race them in my small club and combine YB series this fall. I will document what I can. Thanks for watching! All the best!
Thanks for the video Tom.
You bet! Happy New Year! Hope your breeding goes well! 👍
I do agreed 100% to cross first then keep the line intact. I pair the birds based on how similar pairings have done in the past, mainly by performance but also on pedigree. Yes some luck is needed too.
Either way, those birds all have to be tested on Race sheet.
Test test test💪👍
So glad to see you have birds in the loft!
My head hurts after that explanation and I have the birds 😂😂, you more or less nailed it but Kevin would be better suited to articulate it. Nice video. I think best to best is the easiest way to go but from how it was explained to me breeding a daughter back to father or son back to mother helps retain almost 100% genetics which is how these guys build families of pigeons. If I explained that wrong someone correct me. The guy in my club who gave me the Mussolini’s was teaching me how to retain the genetics but after that sibling back to parent, that next set of baby’s needs to be crossed out with something and then produces a good racer hopefully.
I love it so much, this sport it can make your head spin… so many different roads to Rome. Hope your breedings go well and you have an amazing year.
@@littleloftonthehillso many roads, but in my very limited breeding experience I did notice my Mussolini’s (bred from a family) were my easiest to work with birds and most consistent but my best racers were the Mussolini’s I crossed with Dijkstra. This year I’m trying that again with the original Mussolini Dijkstra pair and I paired another Mussolini cock with a ludo Cleassen hen, if that second pair also produces superior birds then I need to work on identifying which blood crossed with the Mussolini best and I’ll be on to something 😂😂. If a year ago when I got into this if you asked me if I’d be this into genetics already I’d call you crazy lol. It’s all an experiment to try and produce, like you said, a very special bird.
@@DanzaLoft... Steve! Steve! Who are you trying to fool.. You are a pedigree/genetics guru! 😂
Nice video, thanks for sharing
Thanks for visiting
Great Video Tom! 🤙🏻
Thanks! 👍Happy New Year!
@@littleloftonthehill happy new year!🎆
I pair up the best that successfully flew the YB gauntlet of 8 races last fall. I also allow old pairs that bred good racers to continue breeding, and I pair up birds that are physically the best in my hands.
Sounds like a great plan👍Thanks for watching and commenting
Nice vlog again Tom👏👏🥳🥳👍👍
Thanks Mr McFungus! Love seeing your section fill up weaning squeakers. So much potential right there. Hope you have an amazing 2024!
@@littleloftonthehill thx Tom! If the bank will permit… I may send a couple to OLR’s..
they will be the perfect age, by end of February…
Loved your chat about ‘averages v’s 💰! Soo true… 1-100 chance..
be lucky my friend!! 👏👏🍀🍀🥳🥳
Nice shirt! Nice location
Thanks!
I love those lined flannel shirts. That's all I wore when I lived in the colder Oregon weather.
@@ausfuhrpramienjagar
I may or may not of stolen that shirt out of my Dad’s closet😉
@@littleloftonthehill 😂😂. Can't go wrong with a Pendleton flannel..
A lot of good info.
Thanks for watching!
You just said it almost at the end, the genetics is luck. Don’t misunderstand me, you need a good pool of genes in your pigeons first, but the rest is luck. People think that you get 50% from mother and 50% from father, but in reality is more complicated than that, everything depends on which genes are dominant, recessive or co-dominant, the dominant genes will express over the recessive ones, so you need that the good genes are able to express in your offsprings, but genetics is not everything, a pigeon with super genes if doesn’t have the right health, food and training won’t get anywhere. At the end you need a lot of factors to be present at the same time to get a super pigeon.
Great video! Lots of help for a new guy like me
Glad I could help Sergio! Hope you guys had a great Christmas & Happy New Year
To elaborate further on what Steve was mentioning below I will explain it in more detail... How to retain 100% genetic make up of a particular cock or hen you wish to keep a pure family with.. As an example we'll use Iron Clad (IC) himself as the main breeding cock here.. Firstly, you take a hen fathered by IC and breed her back to IC. Then you take a hen from that who is the granddaughter from that father to daughter pairing and breed her back to her grandsire IC. The offspring from that granddaughter to grandfather mating will have 100% of the genetic make up of Iron Clad himself.. In other words when you have that great-grandchild in your hand, you will be holding "Iron Clad" himself. Genetically that is. That bird will be a genetic clone of IC. You can switch the rolls around with a hen the same way, by breeding a "son" back to her and following the same steps for each generation... Hope that explains it. 🙂
When I breed my super champion pigeon this is what I want to try and do 👍
@@littleloftonthehill .. Yup, and then you'll have a genetic clone in your hands. 🙂
What about the immunity and dwarfism problems that occur from continuous in breeding ? How do you tackle it ?
@@pratheekbn4581from my understanding of it is that inbred “clone” will not be a good bird to fly, some have success flying inbred birds but you’re doing it to retain the genetics of a likely aging pigeon so that either is too old to be fertile or at the end of its life, so the way I’ve been explained it is that “genetic clone” then needs to be crossed with a completely unrelated bird and then that set of baby’s are your flyers with 50% genetic makeup of your original “champion”.
@@pratheekbn4581 .. If you do it generation after generation over time, maybe so, but this is just a 3 generation breeding to lock in a certain birds genetic makeup. It's not gonna happen in that short of time. Once you get that, you can outcross with other blood to use for racing if one wants to.
I'm currently breeding to the "DreamBoy" bloodline, which is a 90%Jannsen blood....
Hope they fly well for you, that’s what counts👍Happy New Year
I can't prove this theory butttttttt I strongly believe, if u pair birds up pair them to the opposite color like blue bar to a check
Never heard it before 🤔 Test it out… ?!
.. May I ask why you think pairing them to the opposite color would make any difference in relation to performance?.. Just curious.
@@ausfuhrpramienjagar I watched numerous wild pigeon videos, stating that in the wild pigeons often mate with the opposite color ... Like I said just a wild theory
@@littleloftonthehill dude I can talk pigeon with you all day ! Going back to what u said going against genetics looking for a champion. This sport has gone so far that you can't tell the difference between male and female hardly most of the time it's a good guess really ..,.
No!
given this is my first breeding season i cant really say i am even succeeding at what i was trying , yet...
but! my goals for the first season was to get good birds, and for the most part- except for a couple pairs that i put together specifically? i am letting the birds pair up "at will"
i hadnt expected splash daddy- who is unable to fly and has an injured wing- to win the heart of one of the best hens i have, but... they paired up, despite him being the only cock in that loft that couldnt fly!
i figure if the matches are good- great! but if not? well i'm new and i have years head of me
Is splash daddy a racing homer? If so that pair will produce your best birds 😉 My mother is an avid quilter, she has a sewing room full of fabric. Every time I see your posts here or on other channels I think of her. I am not sure if your UA-cam name has anything to do with sewing/quilting/fabric but that is what I think of when I I see it 👍
Line bred families have a purpose in the sport crosses are overrated
I like it, I will bet you lunch I could find someone that says crosses have a purpose in the sport line bred families are overrated. Many roads to Rome 👍I think the best thing about a true line bred family is consistency in physical traits and racing performance
Not one but ten guys you can find lol !!! Those are the guys that get one maybe three birds on the drop? Imagine getting 8 to 15 birds on the drop? Family. Because birds of a feather fly together :). I believe they both are equally necessary to be successful...key word successful... Now if I'm constantly buying champions because everyone is telling me not to inbreed my current champion bird guess what I'm never getting out the whole .. especially bull breeding imagine buying a cock to 5 hens, that you know have champions in its blood, that are identical. The results are gonna be crazy . When I said over rated I meant in the since that it's the only way, when its not... And not to mention can turn a person away from the sport.
If the birds in a line are all racing well you've got gold. If not you're a long way off target.