Game Theory: Why Final Fantasy is Anti-Religion
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2013
- Final Fantasy games feature a lot of religious symbolism. But if you look closely, those references to religion actually form a very interesting pattern; the Final Fantasy games are actually against organized religion...and even the concept of God himself. So today, we're looking at the Final Fantasy series, including Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy X, and Final Fantasy Legend to see just how this popular series deals with religious issues.
Spanish captions by Loyal Theorist "Eddie Fuerte" Amaya! Thanks buddy :) - Ігри
That laughing scene is supposed to be awkward. It's about failing laughter so you don't drown in pain.
Yeah, I finally got around to playing X and with context it's a very cute scene
Dante´s inferno is just the hell portion of Dante´s travels in the afterlife, the Divine Comedy is the complete journey: hell, purgatory and paradise
Wow, I didn't expect that comment coming. I guess people on the Internet are sometimes smarter than they seem.
Nice, I was checking on that and ready to comment.
Interesting... I read the first part of the Divine Comedy, but never got to the rest.
Kingdoms of Manwe
it´s amazing. whether yo want to read it for theological, morbid or historical reasons.
+Volvagia´s Blaze I agree that the Divine Comedy is a beautiful piece of art.
Old video but I just saw it. But it would be interesting to see a video specifically on Final Fantasy X and how heavily populated areas are actually correlated with technological advancement and industrialization in particular. How exactly it happens and whether it's really the population that's key or other variables instead...
Even older now
Ffx is the anti religion
@@waltervondervogelweide4638 factory everything saw is ultra-high-tech
What's next? Video games are anti-LGBT?
*Looks at video list to the side of screen*
Oh......
Jokes aside, I revisited this after a few years (took away my dislike and put like because I like the depth MatPat goes in these videos. I will say this: I don't believe the Final Fantasy games are "Anti-Religious in theme but more using religion as a subject of some of it's stories. Religion is a common thing to use because of how wide spread it is throughout the world no? So obviously there would be different takes on it. To me it isn't really against religion because in a lot of the games you don't necessarily fight gods, take Kefka for example, you fight people who are aspiring to be God's. Thus they go against the typical will that one shouldn't worship false idols. In the end, what happens? The aspiring God is defeated and thus balance is brought back into the world. What about with ones like Tactics (one of my personal favorites) and X? There's corruption in everything. In those games the player didn't just experience corruption of the church, they experienced corruptions governments and in tactics, Kingdoms playing a literal Game of Thrones with the strings being pulled by everyone. The Lucavi knew about what was going on. That's why the Zodiac stones turn them into monsters. There are still people in those games who are faithful to the religion but still good people. So overall, do I believe it's an anti-religious game series? No, not personally. However the symbolism is rampant and is hard to miss or ignore lol. They make use of the symbolism and the hints towards many things. All for the sake of creating well crafted and amazing stories that follow well crafted and amazing characters. Ramza is hands down one of the best characters because of how realistic he acts to these situations but strives to become a stronger man and overcome the odds to try and do what he thinks is right.
One of my favorite videos still to watch Matpat, despite my first time watching it rendering it a dislike after all these years. That little situation has been remedied my friend. *Yawn* now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go to bed as it is 3:06 and then wake up, slay some Gods and Godhood aspiring evil doers, and then go to work at Walmart.
that was hilarious. 1:46
Starcraftgamer97 that happened to me xD
Starcraftgamer97 FF is actually far from anti-lgbt. In FF13, Vanille and Fang are actually hinted at being lovers
Isn't Japan been open to LGBT, but USA been censoring it in Japanese media? Plenty of same-sex lovers who had to be turned into friends or family, to "protect" the audience from LGBT.
*SCROLL BACK UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!*
Oh god
--------------don't cross this line------------------
trespassers will lose faith in mankind
thebatmanover9000 Lots of people like doing the opposite of what they are told to do, including me
IT ALREADY TERRIBLE
HELP
天の星のカービィ Ten no hoshi no kābyi you rebel!!
the intro is so quiet...
omg it wasn't just me?
lol i thought i went deaf for a minute
Not only me?
For me the whole video was quite....My volume was also very high.
@@k1d_b4nda1dzalt3 that's not right
"FF anti-religion"
Shin Megami Tensei: Oh Look the Little Boy Say
What’s an Shin megami tenses?
@@moilevin7088 one of the best JRPG's series of all time
SoA is better than TWD what’s about?
Le Lucifer vs. Le Jesus vs. Le Epic Atheist Anime Man
How is it anti religious can someone explain
I don't really think FF is against organized religion but rather they take the epic man against government approach to story lines. If you look at almost every story line there is government built in somehow to the antagonist story. The kings and dukes in FF tactics...Shinra in FF7 ...Kefka...worked for the "Empire." I think its more about the dark side of MAN and his use of religion and power to try to control other people which governments do. If anything I think they point out how religion actually becomes a victim to the people who try to use it for their benefit. In FFT, the main boss was the resurrected saint BUT it didn't appear to do anything until the very end and it was the government and people who was behind having it resurrected. So I don't think its religion they are trying to tell us about but rather people.
thank you! Somebody gets it.
+William Connell I think it's both. The anti-religious themes and themes of governmental oppression are not mutually exclusive.
+Joe A. Verage So, it's not religion itself but man. A man who took advantage of religious system to manipulate people and power. So man... especially selfish and greed man, is the REAL embodiment of dictatorial and tyrannical government.
For example, Stalin, an atheist, is responsible for the death of roughly 50 million people.
Carl Patterson I'm glad someone gets it. Religion, however you want to define it, generally takes notions in regards to the absolute and the divine. Evil man will associate their personal campaigns with religious ideology out of their hubris. Just like anything in this world, no religion is safe from exploitation by man.
+William Connell Religion is just a tool to control people. There is no God, no life after death we can empirically prove, we have no special purpose.
People think "Religion is the MAIN cause of all wars" LOL
Remember, World War I and World War II not based on "Religion", Sino - Japan war (massacre of Nanking) wasn't based on Religion, US civil war wasn't based on religion, Korean war, Vietnam war, Gulf War and operation Iraqi Freedom, all of them are not based on Religion.
Even crusade itself only the first crusade that based on religious conflict, the second crusade more like "Territorial war" between The Caliphate vs Spanish Empire (read your history book about "Spanish Reconquista")
Don't forget about the millions of human sacrifices.
You're right about the Sino-War, the US Civil War, the Korean and the Vietnam war but in most other cases even wars that didn't seem religious (WW2) used religion as a tool. Just like good old Pope Sam (uncle sams radical cousin) baited soldiers during the crusades with the good old "Kill them for they oppose your one true god and you'll be absolved of your sins and be embraced in heaven (and when they're dead I'll get me some of those tasty resources cause I love me some profit)."
Religion is never the goal during religious wars. The goal is expansion or profit. Generally just hatred, envy and greed. Religion is just a tool that eases regular people into killing each other without regrets, which is why its so extremely dangerous. It's like a switch imbued in stupid people that can turn them into murderers....and there are lots of stupid people around. Just take a look at what Israel is doing or how America started the whole Iraq-mess.
"People might get upset if I said I just want resources so how about I tell the israeli people we're killing palestinian civilists cause they walzed into our holy land 600 years ago? Yeah dumb people always love religious reasons." - Benjamin Netanyahu
"Al Qaeda destroyed the WTC in a terrorist act. Now I could search for the actual terrorists or I could actually attack the rich asses in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia financially supporting the terrorists. Or I could just claim this is a 'holy war' on terror because 'gods country' was attacked and steal some of that sweet Iraqi oil. Stopping the real masterminds behind the terrorists would mean they'd stop being my financial partners after all." - George W. Bush Jr.
"Alright so there are muslims that were too dumb to get hired as construction workers, too impotent to ever have children and are overall burdens on society. How about we offer them to join Al-Qaeda/ISIS to make them believe they have a purpose in life and are fighting for allah while we just want other countries to waste money on their security, making every kind of travel more expensive and economically weakening said countries?" - every filthy rich kuwaiti sheikh
Actually the First Crusade was about reclaiming and relics stolen by the Muslims and liberating Christians being forced to convert to Islam or die as well as being sold into slavery.
***** What? For like one city? At least give me the name of what area owned by muslims before the Crusades that allowed Christians to practice their faith or else I have no reason to believe you.
***** No, I didn't say all Muslims were bloodthirsty back then. I said the reason for the beginning of the Crusades was about oppression and not a land grab. One of the best examples of forced conversion on Christian children around 7 to 10 was the Devşirme sometime during the 4th Crusade by the Ottoman Empire. The Devşirme took these boys, converted them to Islam and conscripted them into military service.
I do read other things besides my Bible. Why do you think I posted what I posted? You're just avoiding answering my question and putting words into my mouth.
Matt. Please. Continue. This. Fucking. Series. YES.
Mat is pretty hot right?
We've still got a chance
9 years later, in from the march 2024
MatPat would take the last series from himself. Game Theory would stay but Matpat would leave as a host from game theory
This was my first ever MatPat video and just heard he is retiring today. So I came back to where my journey started.
Sorta weird bud
I'm going back through some of his older videos too. He's going to be missed 😢
Im watching all the vids, I feel bad for starting late
The music in the Kefka battle is NOT Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor. In fact it is not a singular organ piece at all, it is bits and pieces of various Bach organ works combined (within which there might be a tiny section of the Fugue from the aforementioned toccata and fugue)
Also, just because a piece is written for organ, doesn't mean it was written for church purposes. The Toccata and Fugue in D minor is a completely secular piece. (Its authorship is also contested and there are many who believe the work wasn't written by Bach, but that is neither here nor there..)
Source: I'm a professional organist
I play with my organ all the time
While that's very interesting, and while you have a point that not all organ music is specifically Church music, I think that's probably the idea they were going for, given all the other imagery in the fight. Plus, when most people think of organ music, it IS all church music.
@@guardingdark2860 The Doors would disagree
I think he was making a masturbating joke.
Dancing Mad is the name of the piece, and runs for almost 20 minutes. Each tier is part of the whole boss fight, and the movement progresses with the tiers.
As for the composition, Uematsu has no formal classical training, so any resemblance to other pieces is more than likely coincidence.
Do tetris theory! Why the hell are blocks falling and why do you have to arrange them?
A question that has driven many a man to the brink of madness
It's based on an old Russian folk song about a man unloading a crate. That song (which is based on a poem of the same title) is also what the original Tetris theme song is based on. If you'd like to hear the song it's called Korobeiniki.
Game for the OCD, maybe?
I know all about korobeinki. I love the Red Army version better than the dubstep of tetris.
But I do think come to think about it, its a game about logistics. You have to fit things perfectly as they go down in order to score points until it inevitably becomes impossible.
You're a factory worker trying to work hard as cruel capitalist pigs are forcing you to do a task that is seemingly impossible. When you're overwhelmed, you are fired and hence game over.
Honestly, killing gods just makes for good video games
Alexander Coryn honestly tho
well if you want to have a big and last battle in a game, the enemy has to be really powerful. like......a god or something
Or play a video game where you're playing as a god. How's it going Okami fans?!
Have you played shin megami tensei yet?
@@gothnerd887 Yes!!!!!
Oh and there is one thing you forgot to mention that Sephiroth's name alone is derived from a word in Hebrew.
here's the definition behind the name-
Sephiroth is named for the סְפִירוֹת Səphīrōth (medieval Hebrew form of Sephirot). Sephiroth is a plural noun in Hebrew; the singular is Sephirah (also spelled Sefira). The Sephiroth are described in the Kabbalah as the manifestations of God that allow Him to manifest in the physical and metaphysical universes.
So then that would mean you are killing god in ff7
@@ronytomano no, the manifestation of God, IE the Son of God.
IE Jesus.
@@lelouchz7765 so Sephiroth is Jesus?
While having no religion, I didn't like what you put in the beginning with the upside down star. Satanism is a religion, not against religion.
agreed
nahh i see satanism as a parody of religion
+Nicholas Flanders I see satanism as trying to be a religion but get's lost in it's anti religious aspects.
+jayhan94 this guy is pretty correct. most modern Satanism is used as a parody to explore the limits of religious freedom
+Nicholas Flanders why i didn't expect a straight out of tumblr sjw correcting a small error while saying what you have no religion
it wasn't actually hideyoshi who banned christianity. but the third tokugawa shogun.
It was also sometime in the 1600s not 1857. thats about when commodore perry forced open japans gates to the western world.
hideyoshi was never officially declared shogun either.
keep commenting that kind of things wise man
I was actually expecting to have fanboys of the series try to ream me for pointing out a truth, and accepting what this guy says as true just because
i don´t care, i like the king of guys that speak with so much truth and still staying calm
The scariest part about religion, is that you don't know which one is right, or if any of them are right...From my perspective, if your an atheist, and your wrong...well. your burning in hell. For all eternity. And if your an christian and your wrong, and there are no gods, then where do we go beyond that? Or if Christianity and Atheism are *both* wrong, then there are multitude of other answers...right?
That's a very smart theory. I'm glad you as an individual realize that. There is no way we can disprove/prove that a religon is correct. I'm methodist, but there is no way of telling if the atheists/buddhists/christians are correct. But I'd rather take my chances and not burn in hell XD
Same. Lol
blackopscarson Same lmao + it doesn't hurt to have a faith
Of course not, you can believe whatever you want.
Of course you can, but, lets say Christianity is right, and you didn't believe in Christianity. you know where your going? Hell.
I don't think it's anti-god. i just think it's easy to make a story around.
Yeah, but most of the time, they don't have you killing a proxy of God Himself. Usually there are parallels to the protagonist being Jesus and/or the enemy being Lucifer.
Exactly, its just a story.
Yep. The Shin Megami Tensei series follows this very formula as well.
VII seems to be a rather gnostic view of God, even if they don't use the terms.
I can see why people would think that, like nearly every final boss is some sort of god form of the villian.
I grew up before the internet in a catholic family and went to catholic school all my life. Seeing the Al Bhed and Rikku in FFX as characters that rejected all forms of the supernatural really spoke to the 12 year old me. I had literally never seen or heard of anyone that thought the way I did. It was a huge relief, I thought everyone around me was crazy, or I was.
Is no one going to mention the fact that the pentagram isn't used for devil worship, that it's a pagan symbol.
The inverted pentagram shown in the video (two points up, one point down) is typically associated with Satanism. A pentacle right-side-up is indeed a Pagan symbol.
he mentioned in the video about the use of pagan symbols to summon monsters in order to defeat god like villains 8:23
No i got that. But I'm tired of seeing crossed inside red pentagrams and everyone think that it's devil worship or some such bullshit.
SuperAlphamale13 In truth the pentagram had its origins as a Greek geometric symbol. Multiple spiritualities have used the pentagram for different meanings.
From my understanding, a pentagram within a circle is a Pegan symbol while a circle within a pentagram is a "satanic" symbol.
He still used the wrong one though. lmao
I have a friend who´s friend died in the Age of 21 because of a very terrible disease. A few weeks later, my friend talked to a cristian, and asked: "Why my friend had to die so early? He was nice and helped everyone who needed help."
Did you know, what the Christian answered?
"God punished him, because he wasn´t believing in god!"
And that made me think: why should I pray to this god, when he kills me in a terrible way when I do something wrong or doubt?
And I guess, he loves all the humans? Would you kill your best friend just because he wasn´t writing you on Facebook for one day?
Thats also like when I ask christians, why god gave his creations such terrible diseases or handicaps?
The answer I mostly get? : Because they did something terrible in a former life.
I´m not religious and don´t care about this much buuut....isn´t it so, that your Soul goes to heaven/hell for eternity? So how is it possible, that some People can be punished for past Actions?
Don´t get me wrong, if you want to believe to this god or any other god, then do it. I just can´t stand it, when religious People tell me, that I will suffer eternal pain when I don´t believe in something I don´t care about.
I´m a Student of a nature science, and I Need to see evidences to believe something. And as Long as nobody gave me a SOLID proof (not that "the human eye is the proof of god because look at it!" Kind of things.....), then I´ll still not believe in him.
I apologise for every mistake..English isn´t my mother tongue....
What that person said is not exactly right. There is no explanation why bad things happen to some people. I'm a Christian and the reasons you pointed out are some of the reasons why I don't believe in reincarnation. I'm paraphrasing, but when Jesus was asked about people who perished in accidents, he said they were no more wicked than anyone else. So we don't know why those things happen. The existence of sin and evil is one explanation, even for deformities. When God created the world it was perfect and He had no intention for anyone to die or to have diseases or handicaps.
i think that Christian was just an Igniorant and god (If he exists) ave absolutly do nothing to yor friend. The guy who said you that was probably an Extremist, who hated Atheist and tried to scare you.
Squilava14
Those are the people whose guts I hate.
Squilava14 Yeah I did some Research after that (it was on a Website where this discussion happened) And this religious Person was realy an Extremist...they also cursed everyone who´s an Atheist that they should burn in hell and suffer eternal pain...
Mamba~Rodriguez Hooo.... hat a nice guy XD
I know it's the least important part of the video but in the intro when the FF fan uses rage comment THEN may uses flame shield, wouldn't it be useless because the shield is only put up after the attack?
I mean seriously matt, you gotta think through your attack dynamics! You're suppose to be the smartest show in gaming, you can't endanger your brand with such a rookie mistake.
He’s pitching a new battle system
Samantha Darling He makes a lot of mistakes but at least there not as bad as later on.
Their*
they're*
So some of the things you labeled as Christian are actually just catholic. Purgatory and the Pope are just Catholic not all Christianity. Good theory though!
I am a Christian but not a Catholic so there are some differences and some of the points that you brought up don't apply to all christians. I do realize that Catholicism has been the been the main branch until King Henry the 7 I believe (He didn't invent it but he did make Brittan a protestant nation) So I understand I just wanted to point out some of the inconsistencies in your theory!
+Todd Sutherland Catholics are Christians
+Todd Sutherland Catholicism is still the main branch of Christianism. Obviously saying that the references are simply Christian is a generalization,and despite the fact that in most of the English speaking countries Catholicism is not the main religion/branch, it is in loads of countries around the world. If you also consider that in Japan Christianism is a minor religion, the developers of the game probably chose some of the references shown in the games because they were part of the most extended branch of Catholicism.
I do agree with you, he shouldn't have generalized saying that the references are Christian, but Catholicism is a part of Christianity, and Catholics a lot of times say that we are Christian, without specifying anything (at least where I'm from). Anyway, I'm digressing. Just wanted to point the Catholicism thing out.
P.S: the king making Britain a protestant nation was Henry the 8th, not the 7th.
+Irene Martín Romero
on that point, Catholicism is no longer the main branch of Christianity... well, depending on how categorize.
Recent studies in the field have shown that Evangelical Christianity either has already, or will very shortly surpass Catholicism with regards to global membership. Furthermore, this is largely result of changing demographics in south and central America.
Again, this depends to some degree upon how you break down the denominational categories. If you make the count based upon formal organizations, men Catholicism is still the Mother Church. If, on the other hand, your count is named upon theological beliefs and doctrines, then it has been surpassed.
Catholics are Christians. They believe in Christ, therefore they are Christian. I think the word you are looking for is Protestant.
Since the topic is religion, let me digress a bit from Final Fantasy and say that I come from the southern part of the United States, also known as the "Bible Belt" and I partake in religious behaviors. I never understood how a message from a man like Jesus Christ can be twisted into things of hate such as "We hate Gays!". In fact I recall him saying that if you condemn others that God will condemn you. Matthew chapter 7 I believe. Also, he taught the Golden Rule! Treat others like you want to be treated! What happened to Love thy Neighbor with all your heart, sinner or not? If we are all born in sin, then aren't gay people just like us anyways? It could be that I'm from a small town in the South where almost everyone helps each other in some way, and we actually don't care about gay people, but it irks my nerves when I see people use the remarks of one of the wisest men's words into rude remarks! I'm not homosexual myself, but the Christians who are hating on them because they are "abominations" aren't true Christians.
Well, there's my rant. Hope you have all enjoyed.
This is fantastic! I'm not religious myself but i have friends who are even less so and always say "The south are too religious and hate gays and immigrants and yada yada yada" where in actuality its more just the loudest of the bunch and as such people assume tis the Whooooooooooooooooole south its like are you serious people? Very much did enjoy your rant man you cant not enjoy the rant of someone with a CHange Hank Hill as a profile pic :D
Ummm... Jesus says you must also follow all OT laws. Including Leviticus
On the final note there, there is a pretty major mistake in this video.
That being: Japan is mainly atheists/non-believers.
In all my time spent living in Japan, I have never met someone who >truly< believed in any religion. Yes, they go to temples and shrines to pray. Just like Danes, who are also mostly non-believers, go to church for Christmas. It's not about believing in a religion, it's more just a cultural practice.
In essence, the entire conclusion you came up with in the last 3 minutes, is based on completely wrong information.
Anecdotal evidence ftw
mathlover5k afraid not. If you have a look at surveys about this, Japan has, for a very long time, been considered a largely non-believing country. It's not even difficult to find out, tons of credible material freely available on ze Google.
I wouldn't call them nonbelievers. More like apathiests, kind of.
***** I'm a little confused by that, what do you mean exactly? And why?
Philip Zeplin I mean that in Japan, from my experiences/studies, seem to not not believe in God, but more so feel kind of apathetic about it.
I would like to point out the fact that the Christianity depicted in FF is specifically Catholic, which is just one denomination of hundreds
Catholicism isn't a denomination, Catholicism is the church. The first Pope was the apostle St Peter. Catholics compiled the Bible. There was a schism between east and west in 1054, creating 2 churches with the same theology under different leadership, Western being Catholic under the pope, and Eastern being Orthodox Christians with no papal authority. Martin Luther then began the first Protestant, removing what he didn't like from the church. This opened the door for anyone to create their own church, either part of a denomination like Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc, or non denominational. There are thousands of these churches, but not the true church, Catholic. But I'll forgive you for thinking we're just one of many denominations.
Daniel Salazar You’re stating a lot of theories about the structure of the early church as fact. You can believe that, but there is no historical irrefutable “proof” to back up the catholic view of the early church.
Even as primarily Protestant I still find the themes uncomfortable. Honestly, while there are many denominations of Christianity, at the end of the day we're all Christians and our core beliefs are the same. Sure, a Baptist might not believe in the authority of the Pope, but will probably read some Catholic literature alongside Biblical Scripture. Catholic Communism has some slight differences to Protestant Lord's Supper, but the key elements are unchanged and they symbolize the same thing, being based off the same Biblical event.
I'm a Christian and I think we should all give time to understand and respect each others personal beliefs. Culture a great thing and I really like the way they explain the villains who kill people just because they don't believe someone when they should respect others and live with them.
Snakearies The Third I am a christian as well I talked to another believer in this comment section as well as a atheist too neither one has responded considering I just started commenting on their comments just a little bit ago anyways I agree with what you have to say that's real american freedom to speak your opinions whether it's popular or not.
I may be atheist but I don't care what people believe or don't. Your religion or lack of religion is none of my business. If Wakka and Rikku could get along why can't you people? -_-
༼ つ◕ω◕ ༽つ WOW Wakka was a narrow minded racist asshole and Rikku could only get along with him because he became sceptical towards organized religion. Besides, at first it was also mostly Rikku who was nice to him while getting shit in return. I could hardly call it a two way street. :(
༼ つ◕ω◕ ༽つ WOW hateful hell mongerers? Dude, I don't think every religious person is calling people like you hateful hellmongers. Hell, in my view of christianity, that would be a sin for people calling others that. Christians are not supposed to think of people negatively, nor are they supposed to try to govern other peoples live *cough* anti-gay movement *cough*
You, sir (or other gender, I don't care how you classify yourself because that's your business, but let's call you sir for the sake of the argument), are a fantabulous person. You are amazing. Round of applause people, round of applause. (Non-sarcastic approval is non-sarcastic)
Forgotten Camel If only things were as peaceful as you'd think.
***** Hate is common in both sides, unfortunately.
Christians:Let me tell you about the power of Christ.
Atheists: I don't care leave me alone.
Atheists: Let me tell why God doesn't exist.
Hypocrisy at it's finest. Just live and let live. You believe in god, good for you don't force it on anyone else. You don't believe in god? Good keep it to yourself no ones asking for your opinions.
This
Trent Northwick Almost got it. How it mostly gets down though...
Christian: God exist.
Athiest: Okay, evidence ?
Christian: The Bible says god exist.
Athiest: How do you know that what the Bible says is true ?
Christian: God says it's true.
Athiest : ...
Why do you guys have to put it on Christians? we are equally at fault.
Actually, that's more like the opposite of hypocrisy.
✞lloD ɔıɥʇoG✞ Actually the burden of proof is on the Christians, not atheists. If someone makes a positive claim "god is real", the burden of proof falls to the person making the positive claim. It is not on the atheist to disprove religion or the existence of god/s.
What and who do you mean by "we are equally at fault"?
The biggest problem with this theory is that MatPat can't distance himself from his occidental point of view (he lives in a society deeply influenced by monotheists religions).
In Japan, most people believes in simple rituals where gods are akin to strong spiritual spirits, either good or bad. Final Fantasy is not "Anti-Religion", it's that religion doesn't have the same importance when you compare Japan and Occidental societies.
This episode was ment for people who primarily speak English and thereby most likely live in a western society. Also, Gaijin explains what you said at the end of the video.
I think matpat will not response thou his theory is false
This is the first GT i watched, gonna miss you Matpat
Same here this was my first ever video I watched that he did
Same
I'm Christian, don't care. These games are still fun.
Thats the spirit
homersimson1375 i lol'd
No one cares what your religion is you narcissistic douche
@@theloanranger2632 and no one cares about your opinion of them.
@@theloanranger2632 Narcissist
a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves
He/She is not a narcissist, he/she is just saying his/her opinion.
Thanks for staying neutral Game Theorist. I don't like it when people make nasty comments about any sort of religious topic. Truthful or not, it causes a lot of people to be turned away from ones personality or opinions, including me.
“Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never-ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god that blessed us with this cryptic puzzle, and wonder if we’ll ever have the chance to kill him.”
I would like to know, why is it always jrpgs that have the whole killing "god" trope? I mean anime is another mainstream japanese property, yet for some reason, killing "god" is an extremely rare thing in anime.
Probably because JRPGs given they are RPGs often follow a series of progression for their characters and power and usually the peak of power aka “final boss” Is that you really can’t get more stronger than a God hence if you can kill God then you truly progressed as far as one could since after God, what’s next?
8:12 So... God was killed by a random guy named Bob. LOL
+ArgentinianSeba That'll turn the bible on it's head lol
lol u just made my day man
+ArgentinianSeba sir do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Bob
+Jack Palkovic You would have to find Biblical support for the idea that Yahweh exists outside of time, which you can't because it doesn't exist. That was one of Plato's ideas, and it mostly seems to be a misunderstanding between Greek and Hebrew translations. As for the idea that God never changes, there are a few excerpts that support this, but when you take them into context with the surrounding passages, it becomes more vague. God's purpose never changes, that is clear, but his purpose is unknown. Saving souls is only a means to an end, as evidenced by Revelations, and the fact that this was clearly not his goal during the Old Testament. Love doesn't seem to be either, for the same reason (also there are passages in which God himself states that he hates certain people. Not their actions, but the people themselves, and in the Hebrew sense, not our modern sense of "hate." Like when he gloats about killing the children of his enemies in Job.
+Jack Palkovic He is actually composed by parts, as Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I think so.
MatPat talks about Final Fantasy opposing religion: Hardly anyone flips out.
MatPat talks about why the Wii U failed in the first place: Entire comments section turns into a shitstorm.
Eh.. Gamers are usually either skeptical about religion, or used to the skepticism at this point. That and age difference. The older generations tend to be a bit more.. passionate.. about religion then the young 18-35.
Gary Sanders So far I've seen a ton of overzealous believers/nonbelievers in the 18-35 range, the people over 35 I've met are comfortable in their views and didn't feel they had to scream to get their point across or feel right. But then we have plenty of stoners in the 18-35 range, too, so maybe the ones you're talking about are those hippie-like folk xD
JB:i like that laugh
the laugh: 1:46
Wow this is an old video. Googled some stuff after realizing just how anti religious 16 was.
It's also quite logically used as a generally villianous stereotype. Many people see religion as a source of conflict and oppression, in a sense very similar to characteristics of a dystopia. Add the scale of all the supernatural stuff, and you've basically got an interesting subject right away.
+Vezonmodder I agree
A rather logical conclusion, especially when you look at the Crusades and the path taken by the War on Terror.
Anjalena Well I did not expect that...BUT ALRIGHT THEN!
+Manjit Toor **laugh** yes, I do tend to be unexpected! and very long winded! it's a fault of mine. **giggle**
+Anjalena you do know that the kkk killed Christians right?
Anyways, loved the video. I'm very christian, (Independent Baptist to be specific) wished you could have gone into the Jenova being interpreted as Jehovah in FF7, and coming to earth 2000 years ago and being put to rest? Kinda sounds like Jesus 2000 years ago, and her son Sephiroth rising to power. But hey, it's just a theory.... A GAME THEORY!!!!!
Me too. Christian guy here. Yet I love games. I played painkiller which is was all Christian symbolism. And I played games where magic is involved. Some were devils. Just a game. And you'd really really have to look deep in the story to find bits and pieces like this show does. It's still good versus evil overall though. And honestly, even that is almost Christian pro because a lot of scriptures do mention a lot of good fighting evil. I dont hate Japan for this. If Japan was that critical to religion, they would shame their own. It would contradicting to the main point of Buddhism
*****
Grow up, get a life, and please get a brain.
Derek Purvis What did he even say?
Dylan Smith
You are hardly even worth talking to.
"put down" seriously? You are going to start killing people now?
And yeah, I said get a brain, do I need to spell it for you?
"BRAIN" why do t you go get a "DICTIONARY" and look up what if is.
One reason to be a Christian, so I don't end up like a worthless, kill happy, low life like yourself.
Go back to school.
Derek Purvis I have no idea what whoever provoked you said, but it sounds like they're a rockhead. However, I can safely assert that rejecting archaic texts about the universe does not turn anyone worthless or kill-happy. Quite the contrary, atheism increases the weight given to life, because it exposes existence as finite. It increases the worth of life, and any atheist with any semblance of morals wouldn't dare make an attempt on anyone's life, because they would be living with the knowledge that they had cast someone into oblivion.
If anyone knows and is kind enough to share, what song is being played starting at 6:54?
"And now let's talk about my favorite Final Fantasy: [the one I played when I was 12]"
Your best FF is the first FF you ever play.
I’m werid ffx my first is my second fav
It's not generally anti-religion. More like anti-oppression. The games simply don't like it when religions oppress or kill. The games argue against religion butting into people's daily lives, and religious cults, and that's pretty much it. Even Gaijin Goomba explained that those games are not anti-religion. They are against religion *that is organized and tries to hold power over the majority*. So why is this video still called ''Why Final Fantasy is anti-religion''? It's obviously not.
FFVIII also contains religious references with its Guardian Forces (GFs). Most of them have the names of deities (e.g. Quezacotl and Shiva). But get this: they fight *for* you. Rinoa even has an 'angel wings' motif on the back of her clothes, and her dog is named Angelo. She fights Ultimecia, who serves as a kind of fallen angel.
FFXIII lets you fight angelic beings too. However, it's not necessarily about good vs evil, it's again about creating your own destiny, rather than accepting others' plans for you.
Tom Birdwell at The Escapist explains it very well:
''Toppling the Big Bad Church and the Evil God-figures are metaphors against the average Japanese youth's aversion to the rigid authority figures of their culture. They're not meant to be taken *too* literally. Japanese media often appropriates religious iconography and images from the West because, as Hideaki Anno put it, 'it looks cool'. It's an easy way to dress up the underlying metaphorical struggles so they can convey a narrative theme without being too obvious about it.''
Click bait.
WARNING PREPARE TO SCROLL THROUGH THE DEFINITION OF HATRED AND INTOLERANCE TO PEOPLE AND THEIR BELIEFS
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
indeed my borther
Do you think they go hunting for videos to wail on, or do they just stumble upon it?
Leo Ryff a little bit of both some people are ass wholes who feel the need to find any reasons to insult people for beliefs that don't match there own.and other people are ass wholes who when the stumble on the same situation take advantage of it
You know what really bugs me? There are people who form accounts, not just on this site but on others too, just to put others down. They don;t do anything but that.
I'm not sure if that's sad or funny.
Leo Ryff Unfortunately we live in a time where intolerance and hatred is popular I wish I could explain it but I can't so i'm just gonna use lyrics to express my thoughts
"Ain't a soul on the planet that's better than another man we all need grace in the face of each other"
>FF is anti-religion
>Chronotrigger retells the story of jesus
>Both games by square
Damn, square probably had the biggest religion debates in any company... lol
The original Final Fantasy was based off of a Christian Medieval England.
Funny thing about Seymour his summon is his mom
Wait what?
@@ZeldaLover6 yep it is true. The Aeons are made by the Fayths and they are made from the souls of dead humans inhabiting a statue of the Aeon. Bahamut is a little kid and Dream Zanarkand (which is off the coast of Spira) is made up of a ton of Fayths which you can find on Mt. Gagazet. Fun fact about the residents of Dream Zanarkand the bodies are fake but the souls are real.
I think it's important to also take into consideration the ramifications religion has had on our world throughout it's history. It's often been the main reason people go to war.
I think Final Fantasy choses religious themes because of how strongly religion resonates with people, no matter what you believe in. Religion is powerful, and Final Fantasy often seeks to make you feel emotions powerfully. I really think it's as simple as that from a narrative perspective.
Nothing will probably make you feel more betrayal than betrayal from the thing you believed in most. Nothing corrupts more than power, and religion is irrefutable power (to some). So I really wouldn't say FF hates religion, I just think it's the most emotionally gripping and complex type of villain that really is supposed to make you feel all sorts of feels.
I like your breakdown
"In the new world, we won't need God!" - Lightning, Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy
I know the game hadn't come out by the point you made this video, but you really could just show a clip of that scene and that'd pretty much be the evidence you needed.
Is this perhaps something prevalent in JRPGs? I just played Xenoblade Chronicles and was struck by the quote "Create a world, with no need for gods"
Gnosticism.
Is it wierd that I enjoy Final Fantasy games despite believing in the Christian religion?
It’s not weird.
Yo me too
Me too
Not at all
I thought this was a really interesting video. I would like to see a more in-depth video about each Final Fantasy if your willing. I haven't played every game in the franchise, but I've played a lot of them. It'd be interesting to see an in-depth walkthrough of each game. Just a thought. Thanks for sharing the video!
Why does Final Fantasy have so many plots where you kill God?
Because in a JRPG, you either go big or go home.
Its not Megami Tensei where God is a big fat jerk.
Megamibunny lol i want a game theory on why they made god a tyrant in Megami Tensei or something like that it would be intresting
I didn't read the disclaimer, my complaint is unfounded, and
you sUuuuuUUUUcccK!!!
MouseClicker3000 How original.
Hilarious and Original :)
Not quite...
In sarcasm :)
MouseClicker3000 OH SHITE!
Wooow from this to now! I remember watching this when it came out, I was still in middle school! Amazing work ethic MatPat. We appreciate you!
I do not think this theory explains nearly as much as it could have.
Great.... A comments section about the comments section.
I'm an atheist but I wouldn't say FF is anti-religious, its more anti-blind devotion and unjust leadership. Nothing portrays religion as inherently bad as religion is present in some of the games without issue. Its always the corrupt leaders and the lack of questioning of the people that fucks shit up.
I was gonna type out an example of this from Ivalice since Tactics was said but I doubt anyone would read it so nevermind. Would like to see more on this subject and other dissections though.
Agreed. There are many positive depictions of religious people in Final Fantasy games. Yuna herself is incredibly devoted to her faith. Until the church makes her choose between obedience and doing the right thing
Nono
Exactly. That distinction between what is truly right and what religious leaders say is one of the morals of the series not religion or belief in a god is at its core wrong.
Also sorry completely unrelated fangirl squealing is about to happen that probably will confuse you. OMG YOUR USERNAME IS NONO, THAT SO DAMN CUTE!!!!!! AHHHH! >.
And to add to your point, the example of FF Tactics, were they used a religious legend to spark a war, that is the exact same premise of the crusades and holy wars of years long since passed, where Catholics , at the command of the pope would go out to various holy lands of other religious teachings, and try to "convert them to the one true god" by killing them in mass numbers when they would not convert to the catholic religion(note to anyone of a catholic religious standing, I am not saying this as attack against religion, I am saying it as a point in history were we were so blindly attached to faith that if it was commanded, we would gladly go kill our neighbor if he was suspected of being another religion and would not convert, also this is rough information, with a fair bit left out as I am not capable of detailing every little thing about the crusades)
***** I agree with you all. Ivalice stories (FInal Fantasy Tactics/ War of the Lions) have alot of religious mythos in the game. Actually a lot of final fantasy games uses this type of trope to tell a great story. People fail to understand the Game Theories is made to be entertaining and THEORY guessing as well as Knowledgable. It's made to spark interest for an individual to go back and read apart of history, science, or literature that follows that industry game. For a UA-cam show such as this to exist the creators, developers, and research team did a stupendous job creating this or many games.
Very good observation, I strongly agree with that. I always felt in FF games it was more about people being tricked into things by evil people using religion, but not portraying the actual religion to be evil.
hmmmmm wait, your conclusion is Final Fantasy is anti religion because the Japanese have a more fluid or open understanding of religion? That really felt like a cop out, I get it youre saying the strict adherence to one organized religion is seen as bad, but you should've gone much deeper into why this is a valid explanation.
Im Japanese but we usually know nothing of religion. Not even our own which is 神道 and 仏教. Usually non of us can care less of religion. Most of us even know the origin of Christmas but we do it anyways cuz why not? That is the Japanese stance towards religion.
Sorry. "don't know the origin of Christmas"
ron Miley Christmas and Easter are not Christian holidays but were originally pagan and used by the Catholic Church to convert more people to Catholicism. In turn, those branched out into Christianity.
I would say you're lucky in a way because fear is a tactic used by most religions to keep you in it. It can be so bad that you can develop mental disorders, like Scrupulosity OCD (which is a form of OCD pertaining to religion or morality). I struggled with the symptoms at quite a young age, and I see it in other religious people too.
It's not all bad of course, but it is a growing problem, not just with Christianity but many other religions as well.
ron Miley Unless of course you grew up outside of Japan at some point in your life and had a little taste of it yourself; in that case, I take what I said back.
The broader implication is that Japan is anti-West, in terms of religion. Obviously, Japan's culture has become very westernized, but it has a very complicated relationship between progressiveness and tradition that can be seen in its strange mixture of very high xenophobia and anti-LGBT attitudes vs. its global trade and often very queer anime.
Aww these old videos are so different. Its amazing to see the channels growth
Well done, I expect a full series on FF related vidyas. I grew up on the series, and I am currently playing the MMO - FFXIV Realm Reborn
To be honest, this is one of the few theories I've seen so far that I disagree with. Organized religions (and similarly, cults) are a GREAT enemy to turn to in storytelling, especially fantasy-based storytelling. They possess not only a hierarchy, which is often essential to the adventure's progress (starting with the lower tier enemies and finishing with the big bosses) but also have their basis set firmly in magical, divine roots which allows for spectacular displays of power.
The fact that so many games which do make (subtle) commentary on organized religion feature existing religions is likely because that's what the vast majority of game players will know and recognize.
The closest non-religious villainous entity I can think of in FF games is Shinra Corporation which, like most evil entities which aren't explicitly religious (and thus magical) in nature, utilizes military and technology in its offense/defense than ancient magics. However, in an RPG game, people want something super special awesome to sink their teeth into by the end. Fighting a "bigger robot" as a final boss wouldn't be satisfying, but fighting an embodiment of Apocalyptic doom based on existing religious teachings is much more memorable.
Ahh. Logic and wisdom
this was absolutely fantastic! I've started trying to incorporate video games into papers due for university. This seems like a great topic. I'll have to start working on my prof now!
I just want to point out that Dante's Inferno is actually Catholic, which is a type of Christian... I say this because other types of Christian like Baptist or Evangelist prefer to distance themselves from Catholics believeing that their version of the Christian faith is false, prevented, and, therefore, against God.
I know because most of my family Is some form of Christian
Also, Dante's inferno only covers hell, MatPat mentioned Dante's trilogy of religious exploration, while I'm on the subject of religion, as an atheist, I'm not bothered by the slandering of religion, I believe that people should be allowed to express things like that and children should be allowed to form their own beliefs instead of having religion forced upon them. Despite all of this, Final Fantasy is still an amazing series, and as long as they churn out games I'll be giving them a try!
Captain LaStrange 8
???
Dj Remix when a parent teachs their children about religion and God ,they dont think of it as enforcement ,if you are a parent and you believe that there will be judgment and hell and heaven wouldn't you teach your kid about it so they go to heaven not hell
captain la strange
could you tell me whats the difference between Catholic and other Christian cults (like the orthodox and others.......)
I would love to see another video like this covering the topics you skipped over, MatPat! Thanks so much for making this!
Couldn't care less if they were anti religion, maybe it will have a positive effect on gamers to question the actual corruption that real religions have.
***** the only reason you would make that comment is if you gave a damn, geeze, its fake anyway,
***** Right, the idea that religions are corrupt comes from video games. Because Voltaire was such an avid gamer.
***** I FUCKING LOVE YOU HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA this comment made my day! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
***** haha, brilliant :)
Amazing show as always. So since you are a Chrono Trigger lover like myself, do you ever plan on doing anything with the game Xenogears? Or using it any upcoming theories? I feel like I am the only lover of the game where I live and on the internet as the beauty that was that game is glossed over by the no so spin offs Xeno Saga.
But just a question. Ill continue to be a loyal follower sir MatPat
That start-up... brilliant. It brought back memories of playing FF1 as a kid. Thank you for the nostalgia.
well i dont think its really anti religion, Its more like anit corrupt religion cause in history, there is plenty of chaos when it comes to religion. Mislead faith can really fuck the world up and it has in many countries. I believe in God but I know of the craziness that can come from blind faith
this is very true.
I agree. As much as love Game Theory, I think this video had a really negative undertone that's not very convincing. Plus, there's a lot of positive religious symbolism in the series. i.e. Tidus and Aerith's roles as Christ figures in FFX and FFVII, Rinoa's angelic symbolism and motif in FFVIII, Some the series antagonists being based on Lucifer himself (Sephiroth (via his black wing and Hades-like role in Advent Children), Bizarro Sephiroth, Kefka's God forms each bearing some resemblance to demons/Satan, Ultimacia essentially being a fallen angel, Angeal Penance having attacks named after the seven deadly sins), and even storylines that advocate Christianity, especially Advent Children, in which Cloud attempts to achieve forgiveness for his sins and Aerith ultimately curing everyone with Geostigma via a type of rainwater baptism. The list goes on.
TNSinc98
While I have to admit i have never actually played FFVII so I cannot say anything regarding your assessments of that game FFX and FFVIII are two of my favorite games of all time. The evil sorceresses Ultimecia, Adel and Controlled Edea's likeness to fallen angels is definitely true however while sorceress Rinoa may seem angelic you cant forget where the sorceress powers originated, from various in game conversations you learn that humanity essentially rebeled against their Goddess Hyne and stole half of her power or her body which went to certain women who desired that power either consciously or not creating the sorceresses, after which the Goddess Hyne ran away never to be seen or herd of again. So in essence what we have is a world where the people attacked and drove off their god to steal part of her power and show no remorse about it, one would expect given the strife evil sorceress' have caused their to be a religion to exist around atoning for the world's "sins" and seeking Hyne's forgiveness but no such thing is present in the game. So while Rinoa's powers may seem angelic they are in fact the powers humanity stole from their old goddess.
As for your assertion that Tidus is a "christ figure", while I may be an atheist I grew up attending christian schools and I fail to see the similarities. The blatant both dieing to stop sin aside, christ supposedly died to forgive humanities sins, Tidus ceased to exist because the games protagonists killed the "God" Yu Yevon. If its the resurrection that your saying is similar then while yes if you bought a guide and followed it to the letter completing every inane side quest and conversation of FFX-2 in precisely the correct order Tidus does come back at the end of the game, but since he never actually died but rather simply ceased to exist it isn't really resurrection. And if it's the saving the world even though you know your going to die that is similar well then I would like to point out that martyrdom in not a purely christian thing or even a purely religious thing many figures in history have fought for their cause even-though they knew they were going to die.
(that was longer that I thought it would be...)
I've never understood the term "blind" faith. Isn't all faith inherently blind? To have faith by definition you believe something with no proof and/or evidence. In fact, I could argue to have faith you must also blatantly ignore or forget evidence to the contrary of your faith. Therefore, your belief in God is, in fact, blind faith.
Jordan Grashik ever heard of Christians never actually reading the bible? i don''t know about everyone else but i think that is a form of blind faith.
Well even though the main characters are killing Gods, it's mostly because the villains are using their powers for wrong doing instead of helping humanity.
What is the font used for the disclaimer? It's neat.
I'd be very interested in a video about the Pagan bit you mentioned in passing there at the end, just to see what your reasearch shows compared to my own knowledge.
I always believe that final fantasy was against one type of religion... Taking that one religion to the extreme, the idea that one religion is better than another, and with the games they go and prove how being fixated in one religion can stop progress and create corruption... all the bad guys, for the most part want to be like God, and in doing so they go through great lenghts to achieved it, but they cause nothing but pain and suffering. Which sadly is what some people in real life have done like: Shoko Asahara, Wayne Bent, Charles Manson and many more... in the games you dont force people to stop believing in their religion rather, help them see that their is more to life than just being fixated on one belief.
*There is
Thank you for the video; it's not purely sensationalist, as one would expect from a video with such a title, but actually very well researched and thought out, especially the bit about Japan towards the end. And, yes, I would like to see more videos about, say, FF X and especially FF VII.
Don't listen to Ondor's lies!
I'm captain Basch fon Ronsonburg of Dalmasca, BASCH LIVES!
Has there been more episodes like this one @TheGameTherorists? I'd wanna explore more symbolism in FF. Can anyone point me where to find them in the channel? There's a lot of vids to go through lol
I never really liked final fantasy X and now I guess I know why haha. But also it wouldn't surprise me that the creator of Final Fantasy be bitter towards a God if he believed in one. If you research it, he actually had a very depressing life, and called the game "Final Fantasy" because he thought it was going to be the final game he worked on before his dream became a failure.
There are alot of ANTI CHRISTIAN GAMES, all you have to play is BIOSHOCK INFINITE, and THAT ENTIRE GAME IS A HEAVEN KILLING PREACHER CHRISTIANS, where being baptized at the end is denied. OR play THE LAST OF US, where Elli and the black boy both agree that GOD AND HEAVEN ARE NOT REAL, or play HITMAN ABSOLUTION OR EVEN the new TOMB RAIDER, where LARA finds here uncle, and she says, "thank god your still alive", and he says GOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT", and even the bad guy on the Island is a EVIL PREACHER who offers Salvation or he kills you. JUST PLAY ANY SQUARE ENIX game, and they are ALL ANTI CHRISTIAN GAMES. So sad so many people think the best games are the best, but THEY SUCK, cuz they are ANTI GOD ANTI CHRISTIANS, WHICH IS BRAIN WASHING OUR CHILDREN. WAKE UP Satan is real, and we need to GET CLOSER TO GOD.
You are very funny
It is funny how you claim games to brainwash no they dont brainwash they are entertainment purposed also all religoun including youre precious christian are stored in some kind of source like youre bible and all of these things in these sources are total bullshit
So much anger. You just gotta, like, chill, dude.
Pfft. I like my distance to god. A sniper rifle away. oh and if you believe games are evil for what they do, religious people play games, and still are variety of religious views, from very much to the book to just a spectator. dont be a ass and blame something, if you have problems with religion go deal with yourown problem
AGREE
Yes, please make more videoes about more of these kind of thematics/subjects! Very interested!! 👏 Thank you for an incredible breakdown in this vid!
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THE SONG AT 8:45 PLEASE?
Hymn of the faith from final fantasy x. I thank thay played the shiva, ifrit, and maybe anima versions.
Is it just me or does it seem like there is a lot of religion ass kissing in this video? What's wrong with being anti-religion? It's all just simple mythology, no different from Greek and Roman mythology. It shouldn't be a surprise that a game called "Final Fantasy" treats religion as fantasy... because that's what it is.
It's all simple mythology yes, it's why throughout the series, most Summons (GFs really in Final Fantasy 8) were named after Gods themselves. Shiva, Quetzalcoatl, I also think Bahamut is a god or mentioned somewhere in a religion. In my honest opinion, it's pro-religion, as stated by Eresir below us, giving us all the awesome mythologies and awesomeness about religion, without shoving it's nonsense down our throats.
That's not pro-religion. To study Greek mythology isn't pro-religion. To actually practice and believe in the Greek Gods and participate in the traditions and rituals would be pro-religion. So that's a rather nonsensical thing to say.
You are using pro-religion wrongly. Being pro-religious does NOT mean you have to practice it. Here's an example: I'm an atheist, but I don't care what people believe in. The only nonsensical thing said so far, is how you are refusing to take someone else's opinion as their own, and not try to change it to suit what yours is. Now have fun being a zealot.
Your argument has literally no merit. What opinion am I refusing to acknowledge? You mean on the definition of what it means to be "pro-religion"? Being pro-religion endorses people to be religious, which is absolutely non-evident in the series. It's treated as fantasy, it's treated as bad. The evidence points to it being against religion, not for it. So have fun with that one.
To people who believe it's not fantasy or mythology, it's their reality. They live live and breath their religion. I not asking you to indorse religion, but under stand.
In lightning returns. You literally kill god
Nobody gives a shit about the new ffs
fuck yeah!
I would have said yes, but this is not entirely true either. Bhunivelze is revealed to have had a mother, meaning that there is likely another yet more powerful being. And Segunda, FF13 series is actually pretty good in my opinion. Speak for yourself mate.
But FF isnt exactly anti-religion. Its more about opposing religious corruption and corrupted beings.
xenogears killed god first
SegundaEtappa FF13: Running down a long, boring, stupid hallway with no end in sight... Like these arguments in this video's comment section.
btw what version of the game has Kefka spellt like Cefka? :P
lol omg rewatching this after so long and matpats voice has changed so much!!! Its deeper here and less enthusiastic. Lol thats so crazy. I still have always loved your videos and I'm glad you've had more and more fun making them as you've continued. The style of presentation you use now genuinely gets me excited
FF 4- Cecil gets a Baptism of sorts and all of his sins are cleaned, people left behind also pray that Cecil, Rosa, Cain will survive and defeat Zeromus. That's not anti, that's positive.
FF 6- During the Final Battle, most of the final demons look like Kefka, I believe that it symbolizes Kefka thinking that he's like Jesus, he's the savior, that he's Godly. The heroes of FF 6 defeat this false god, again that's not anti, that's positive. The Bible warns of false Gods and not to worship them.
FF 7- Jenova was a fallen angel whom can take any form that she desires, sound familiar ? Yeah, Sounds like Satan to me. Sephiroth is like reverse- Jesus per say, thinking that he's the son of a demonic fallen angel, instead of God. Again that's positive.
Not to mention the falling angel symbolism during the final fight.
FF 10- Yes I do believe that this anti- religion, but not that in a way that religion is bad, just blind following, and not making your own choices, and corrupt religion, and cults. One of my favorite quotes from that game is from Yuna's dad, to tell Yuna to make her own choices no matter what and live your life the way that you want too.
I disagree with this video alot, I think that FF is mostly the opposite of what he says, and is mostly positive on religion, FF 4 especially. The series is open to Faith, just not blind following, huge difference.
I believe he points out at the end, the consequences of following one religion. As said at the end, the Japanese practice all religion. I believe the title of the video was a more of a vague "this is how it's going to start".
You spent way too much time looking for proof to prove this video wrong so much that you ignored most of what MatPat was saying. Disappointing. Your proof was pretty good though, I'll tell you that.
It's just a Theory.... A Game theory....
C:
/ don'tsuemepleasematt
While I don't agree with all of your points, I think this is a great reminder that part of the message of games in this genre is dependent on the interpretation of the gamer. Whether that message reaffirmed your religious values or forced you to change everything you knew, the important thing is that it made you think deeply about your spiritual path.
Who said she had to look for proof? It's totally possible and probable that she actually plays the game series. I don't think it's anti-religion either and I've played every game they've made, even the mmos. In FFXIV there are churches that you visit to seek haven and help out the priests by doing their quests, it's a part of the story line. In other FF games there have been MANY positive religious ceremonies that have been so beautiful such as Princess Ashe's wedding ceremony in FFXII. So the series is FAR from being anti-religion. I've never been offended by the series at all and I'm a Christian.
Purgatory is a Catholic, concept not a Christian one.
Other than that good job.
Can someone please provide a list of all the background music in this video?
NOW I FUCKING LOVE FINAL FANTASY MORE THAN BEFORE
oh
TheHandsomeAlex Ok?
Same
i think that this isn't really news... Japan's main religion isn't Christianity... It's Shinto... and Buddhism. So, it isn't like they intentionally uses religion as a storyline. Then again, this is my inference.
I was waiting for you to break down FFT, and it was great, but I couldn't help thinking about the people waiting for you to bring up FFL. Must've been something.
religion always has and always will be used to keep the masses in line to do what the ones in power want.
Like how China oppresses it's people? Oh wait , they're an atheist government.
You must mean like how the Soviet Union did . . oops, also atheist.
Well then Cuba . . nope, they're atheist too.
North Korea . atheist
North Vietnam . . atheist.
The list goes on but I'll stop there.
Still does not make the case for faith ( traditional communist govs are atheist but many of those you mentioned have opened up religion), but I condemn those centrally planned govs. They usually form a religion around themselves via propaganda. But deflecting from the truth does not make it go away. Religion is an instrument that has been used in the only way humans can use anything, to hurt their fellow man. Governments, based on faith or not have in many cases have done equally as much damage, but to not admit religion for what it is ( one of the biggest lies and scams of human history) would be utter negligence.
***** Considering all the mentioned places and then some all have a powerful gov or leader, doesnt mean atheism is bad. It means there needs to a place where humans can work together to find the meaning and origin of life as well as advancing ourselves. Corrupt Atheist Gov =/= Atheism is bad. In favor of Religion. Infact here in the US we aren't forced to follow any religion and we get along just fine, with the occasional bible pushers and such.
I'm sure someone else thought too say this earlier: One thing your goomba either forgot, or neglected too mention is the drama. In my studies of religion (mostly European) the stories, gospels, scriptures, and what have you, are heavily focused on and or around drama. Drama is a very good way of holding attention, the drama stories sell very well.
Like I said: it's likely been thought of too be said, and I'm sure someone's said it far better than I have, but I felt it was something that should be pointed out.
I honestly never saw Final Fantasy as anti-religion. To me what X was trying to say is why theocracy’s aren’t good, or to not blindly follow a religion. Maybe that’s just my perspective.
The funny thing is that Lightning Returns is the total confirmation of this video!
Less hating religion and more heavily "borrowing" from religious source material.
Right basically just taking people back to the Renaissance era.
took the words right out of me mouth.
Did you play all the way through FF10? If you did you'd know that it blatently hates religion and it's corrupt "rulers."
There is a difference between Spirituality and Organized Spirituality (IE, Religion). The FF games are against Religion, on the grounds that the controlling parties are always corrupt, but not against Spirituality.
Proctor Conley
I respect that. Its just because of humans pride and greed that makes things so bad. Every time people get into big groups things usually become corrupt. "A person is smart people are stupid" masses of people who can be controlled because they are mindless.
Thank you. This is something I've told to my friends for years and they just said I'm reading too far into it and that they are just video games.
I fully appreciate everything you said in this video. It's a shame it took my over 5 years from it's original posting to see it.
As an atheist, I now enjoy final fantasy even more than I did previously.
-Thanks
Ditto xD
I'd love to push that thumps up button even more. :(
Ok
You make me laugh sad clown.
A very good quote in a book is: A life without religion is much better since you is responsible for his actions themselves.
Sorry! This is a bad translation with Google :(
KCH-Electronic There is a similar quote, though I don't know by who: "Without religion, a good person will do good and an evil person will do evil, but for a good person to do evil, that takes religion".
Ohh yes! :D
Eh I'll stick with Christianity.
Well not all religions blame other entities for their mistakes, some religions state that if you do something wrong you're responsible for your own actions and you'll be punished in the afterlife
I'd have to say, in some ways FFVI isn't anti-god, its about the killing a mortal who usurped divinity ultimately corrupting it (thus plummeting the world into a place without gods grace, aka without magic). Also, the word for that Gaijin Goomba probably should have used was Syncreticism.
that a fair point,the dude bassicaly became lucifer number 2 from what i see...i mean come on,i thought it was obvious but apparently not.
Well the same can be transcribed to X where and emperor became a "God" (monster) and wreaked havoc
the whole thing reminds me o' cults and such maybe the catholic church during the middle ages cause they used to be horrible poeple
Canadianbacon eh and ff2 emperor as well,if i remember right he usurped heaven and hell at the same time.Also i agree,in middle age the catholic church use to be a little (a lot) currupt.
They kind of still are. They just have significantly less influence now.
Ben Hoodrich realy?what did they do recently that is so corrupt?
And in the latest Final Fantasy game XV you are literally tasked with overcoming gods and making them your bitches in summon form. I personally see that as one writing their own story and creating their own path instead of the one a supposed god laid out for them. Its a nice message in all honesty.