Ep 60: The Menace Arm
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- Опубліковано 20 кві 2018
- In this episode I explain one of my favorite common rig builds. An industry standard to over head lighting.
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@dave_donaldson
Music by: Andreyka "Making Moves"
• Andreyka - "Making Mov...
subs: 8,482 - Фільми й анімація
May I add a few words of wisdom admittedly from a small and not always happy experience with Menace arms?
1. Always start with a firm, level base.
2. It may be easier to assemble the arm on the ground and then lift it up when complete.
3. I reckon that a total length of about 6m is about maximal. I use two lengths of 2 metres and two of 1metre, in various combinations. GT used two lengths of 8' which is near enough the same.These lengths also will fit into Patricia!
4. Add carabiners rather than rely on the ratchet strap hooks alone
5. Although GT demonstrates the menace arm in a almost vertical position, I find that it is is rarely used in this position - much more likely to use it more or less horizontal, which makes it harder to balance.
6. There are three elements to the balance problem - a weight on the end of the ''tail' - that is the short arm , hanging out the back; the ratio of 'tail' to the longer part which you might call the 'load' element; and the weights that are placed onto the base of the stand, low down. Each of these three elements have their problems. A long tail is nice, but often not possible because of space considerations. A large weight at the end of the tail means that you have a big weight up high off the ground, which is dangerous, but is the most efficient way of balancing. A large weight on the stand base is safe but stresses the whole system. I try - using the 'tail weights' and extending the tail as much as I can- to more or less get the rig balanced, and then add the stand base weights to add safety and some reserve.
7. The most dangerous period is when , in a moment of panic, the light is lowered and adjusted in some way - the barn doors are changed, for example - often done by rotating the arm and the lowering it- a recipe for disaster.
8. Consider strapping the end of the tail down and attaching it, not to just one point, but to two of the base stand legs. This will reduce any tendency of the arm to be "swung." and makes everything a little less mobile but certainly more solid.
Robert Linacre this is really great advice. Thanks man, I’m sure I speak for everyone when I say we appreciate it. Really like number 8
carabiners are not meant for static loads. If for whatever reason you dont want to use the ratchet hooks use a proper shackle.
1:43 is comedic gold. No words but the reaction says everything hahah
PHILM -definitely a laugh-at-loud moment for me too
I have heard this term a thousand times but never worked on a shoot that happened to require it. Now I know exactly what a menace arm is and how to set it up! Thanks for making me smrtr!
This was a great explanation! Thanks for making these videos so diverse! I always pick up new tips from your experiences!
This is by far my favorite post yet. Comedic gold as well as a cool rig tutorial. Keep em coming!
I'm binge watching this entire channel today. This is the best one so far. Interesting piece of kit.
Awesome video man! Would like to see more riging setups like this!
This is by far one of my favorite channels. I always learn plenty, and come away with a confidence that I'll know how set up and use whatever piece of grip gear you demonstrate. Great job!
Jarrod Tetreault thanks man! Glad you’re enjoying it
I ennjoy this rig setups very much. thank you for sharing. also the comedy bit is just *chef's kiss* haha
Thank you for great demo.
I had to build a Menace one day without the part kit. It was much better than I expected. Its amazing what you can do with a little ingenuity.
this channel is so useful holy smokes! Thank you for making these demos!
Your very welcome ☺️
Building a couple of these tomorrow and came here to brush up!
Great info, thanks for this
great video! thank you
Your videos are awesome dude.
305kubrick dude, and ty. I appreciate that
love it. I have a very low budget shoot and i have to cover a lot of ground so something like this would be very useful.
Cory James Taylor absolutely bud!
Thanks as usual!
Excellent
YEA back to grip tips !!!! nice !
thx for sharing!
enjoyed it =)
Great tip on how to rig it single-handed.
amazing
Saw the name "Menace Arm": Knew I wanted one. Watched the video: Knew why I wanted one... :)
You can build a smaller cheaper version of this with a C-stand, boom pole, and boom pole holder. Just make sure to use a light weight light. I usually use china balls. I never knew there was an official name for this technique, thanks.
Definitely the way to go when rigging a smaller light and you don't need so much reach.
Great video! I was hoping you were going to cover menace arms! Can you cover car rigs? Hostess trays?
NICE!
Glad I didn’t have to point that one out.
Where did you find the back junior pin receiver? The Matthews on looks a little different. I’m sure it’s not a big deal but still
Hi, thanks for all you share! Can you say what the purpose of the straps across the top of the arm (meeting at the centre post) are for? Does it offer some sort of support? Tension? Loved it when I saw the strap at the bottom, a light turned on for me when you adjusted the angle and then ratcheted that down.
Fatcalf Media the top straps create essentially a suspension bridge effect. The weight of the lamp is wanting to bend the pipe down, so the ratchets counter that force to keep it from bending too much
No extra saftety for the Diva in case it slips off the pin?
I thought you were referring to the talent there for a sec.
Flyswatter next!! Lol
Stills photographer here but that was a fascinating watch. Thanks
Truth be told I’ve hung broncolors from these quite a bit
such much work..
Creative Films it’s worse when shooting an episode about the arm, but really this is an easy rig compared to what we’re gonna do soon ☺️
Nice, I'd like to see what kind of book lighting you do or even over head lighting on sound stages, using M18s or just lighting BIG in general.
Daniel Banks it’s in the works to do it. It’s just a money thing. M18’s are like $1200 a day to rent, then you need the distro too
are you confusing M18s with 18Ks?
bensonq haha yea nice catch. Yea I meant 18k’s. Like I wanna show each light separately and compared to others so that my episodes can give people a gauge when they shop. Naw mean?
Was this a combo stand or mombo combo? For future videos, it would really help if you put links to the products you are using in the description, thanks!
This is a mombo combo but you can use a regular combo stand too! And thanks will do!
Is there a general limit on the length you'd want to boom with the speed rail? You mention it being a replacement for a condor, which got me thinking to how long would be considered "safe".
MAVPMedia I have built to this length, but speed rail has an amazing “bounce back” to it. I have actually built this rig without a center post piece, and a 20-ft length. It wasn’t my decision, I was just following orders that day. But the key grip had us build a 20-ft, on a black bird, with a regular ear for a butterfly instead of a center post, a Cardellini for a baby pin side, and the back ratchet strap was a clove hitch on the speed rail instead of a back d-ring/junior side. Hm.... message me on FB and I’ll send you a pic of it. We flew a broncolor strobe for Nike that way. I was nervous, but it worked, I asked the Grip community and they said “yea it was totally fine”. In fact some guys will build bigger but there’s much more involved. I haven’t done it but I will look into it and make an Ep. Thanks for the question, I hope I answered it 😬
A buddy of mine has a pic of a double menace arm he built for a show. I'll have to dig it up somewhere.
The longer you go the more unstable your side to side will be, the ratchets will not only make your pipe bend up, but also to one side so your pipe looks like a big banana. If it does this, you just use a speed rail cross and add a 4-6ft T on the back (think how a camera jib is built) and add ratchets to both sides of the T to keep the end straight.
I’ve build 40ft menaces using this method but they were only capable of flying a very very small lamp, I believe we used a litemat 1, and of course we had tons of bags on the back to counter weight it. You want the counter weight to be damn close to equilibrium.
The working load and size of your stand comes into play with how big of a rig you can build, but more importantly how well balanced the rig is. Relying on just the big leg and sand bags on the base to hold the rig from tipping is a really dangerous way to work. Counter weights are critical. If the DP needed that lamp panned 20 degrees, you’re rig is no longer stable without turning the base of the stand.
Thunder Grip well said well said, thanks for the input man, I’m sure everyone either agrees or has learned something with this post. 🤘🏻
Thank you!
What a multitool you use?
I understand the ratchet strap for the bottom part, where you connect the speed rail to the stand so it doesn’t go up. I’m just wandering what the reason for the ratchet straps that connect the tip with the end is for?
Talking about the top 2 straps? That’s to prevent the speed rail from deflecting. Earlier in my career I’ve seen someone do this without the top 2 straps and with a 20 ft rail but it’s really something you want to avoid.
@@GripTipsNice, thanks! Do you think balancing the menace arm with sandbags is a good/safe option too?
Hey Dave, where do you source your speed rail? Do you have a local place here in Michigan?
Matt Lewis there’s a a place called “Greens” that Detroit power and Light recommended to me but I’ve never been there and I’m not sure where they are located but they still ship it to you as opposed to just picking it up, or so I’ve been told. I actually found that on modern studio equipments website, you can buy nine 8-ft rails and the shipping is the same as if you only bought one.
Grip Tips That’s really good to know! Do you buy it in 1 1/2” or 1 1/4”? I see these kits are available for both diameters.
I see 1-1/4 more commonly
Grip Tips just an FYI, I talked to a place called Alro Steel here in MI and they do sell the 6061 1 1/4” aluminum pipe in 20’ lengths. They confirmed they will sell it to the general public and would cut it. Looks like there are a couple of them in the southeastern part of MI. Great work on the video series. Keep them coming!
Is there a special reason why your speedrail has green paint on the ends?
Angles and Acid to identify quickly. Like say it’s boxed in on a truck, you can only see one end of it, the colors vary all the time but basically 2ft is a color, 4ft is a color, 6 ft is a color, 8 ft is a color, and 20-ft has no color. At least in my experience. But it varies state to state to state to state. But overall it’s just for easy identification. Truthfully, if you look closely in this episode, I cheated and used green and red speed rail.
Thanks Dave :) I've learned so much from your channel. I've only seen the menace arm kit laid in pieces but never assembled, I had assumed it was just one long rope from the light, up, and over to the rear end of the pole to prevent the pipe from sagging. Now I see the application is quite different - thanks!
Wheres yer speed wrench for your speed rail?
Billy b I know right?! I really just need to buy one already
Why not just use a boom arm?
What gauge is speed rail? The size, material and thickness?
Hey bud! Check out this episode I made a while back talking about speed rail in general. It’s got all the info ua-cam.com/video/eELwohOK74U/v-deo.htmlsi=6dy1Krk3FVR9AIBT
Poor Patricia
How does a matthews Mini Max compare to this?
the things that stay in a grip truck are simple and multiuse. The mini max is a one trick pony.
Hi bro I like your video you can help me how I can buy this accessories online
Was that pipe coupler a DIY solution?
Haha no, that’s modern studio equipments coupler
grip equipment is DIY.
Or you do it the getto way and put a mafer clamp in your gamble and stick a c-stand in there, sand bag it up and voila. (i don't recommend this btw)
Do you use aluminium or steel pipes?
Aluminum
6061 t6 aluminum. 1-1/4 schedule 40 pipe. We call it speed rail
@@GripTips thanks a lot mate!
where do you get the coupler?
That particular one is from Modern Studio equipment. You can also shop Matthews studio equipment as well
Thanks
I knew a Patricia.
She had a van.
I didn't remember i subscribe this kind of channel. Lel. 6 views. xD
Love your channel, but the drop shadows under the objects in the green screen intro are insulting to us retouchers! A C-stand would never cast a heavy shadow like that. If you would like some help recreating a new green screen intro image, I’d be glad to help.
Jason Jamal Nakleh watch some of my newest episodes.
r u working woth film riot ?
Hahaha that’s actually the second time I’ve been asked in a week hhahaha. No I’m not, but I think our humor is similar and I’m not gonna deny that Ryan and josh have had an influence on me
no safetyes? wow, thats brave/dumb
wheres your speedwrench?!
Christopher Morgan hahaha guilty, dude my Allan’s fell out of my hand so much during the b-roll. I actually don’t have one, surprisingly right? Got a recommendation for one?
oh no! I have this one: tinyurl.com/ydh6uoqf though I don't believe it will last too long. A fellow OG grip I work with occasionally uses this speed wrench: tinyurl.com/y79g4odq which I believe is much better because it is longer and it has the 9/16th ratchet as well for your various cheeseboro clamps and so on :)
Cheers!
Those look like 7 foot pieces of speedrail, at most. No way they are 8 feet
They might be. I’m not sure why that’s an issue for this episode. Am I missing something?