As someone who has received a lot of canned rejections, getting a personalized one definitely feels like a win. I've had a few of them and they've told me I had a story that was close. Uncanny Magazine gave me a really nice rejection spelling out what was missing from a short story of mine. I sold it a couple of of months later for $500 (which is a lot for a little scifi story!). The real downside is that you often have to wait several months for a rejection 🙃
The fact that you posted this episode with this topic today is kind of amazing. I am a Norwegian author and, I got rejected some financial support for my book today and it really bummed me out. So thanks guys❤ I needed this.
I’ve gotten a few. They’ve almost all been form letters besides one where she said something just wasn’t clicking for her, but even then she wasn’t specific so maybe that was also a form letter
The law does not care if the other guy is a bad person if you actually violated the law. "But judge, they didn't give me the raise I was promised so I was just taking what was owed to me." Is not a winning argument. That is not a hypothetical, it's from a case I actually worked on. I also worked on a case that factually revolved around the ownership of a live chicken, just one. I've had a weird legal career.
Brandon’s rejection letters would have been your stories are very long….very very very long 😂….now they regret not publishing 😅 thank you for sharing and keeping up Brandon…I wouldn’t have loved fantasy as much as I do now without your stories.
Brandon!!! My wife and I have been royally screwed by Amazon. We were supposed to get your amazing book this Friday and now it's coming next Monday even though we had pre-ordered back in August 😢 We also bought the audible version. If anyone from your team sees this. Please reach out so i could get a digital copy emailed? After proving my previous purchases of course! But we absolutely have to read this amazing book on Friday if at all possible! We are up to date on all early chapters! Huge fans obvi!
I was wondering why my reactions and perspectives were ao different from these guys and then they talked about "inflated senses of self importance"... And suddenly, it all made sense
There is a translation guide to rejection letters interpretation in Scott Eddlestein's 30 Steps to Becoming a Writer... particularly for weirdly aggressive letters. It's in the back near the appendices. Unsure if it is in all editions.
I had an agent request a manuscript. After I sent it it took her 8 months to respond that she doesn't deal with my genre anymore but that I've really got something there lol
Oh my gosh getting a box of rejection letters in the MTC sounds horrible 😂 especially since you were probably stuck there for like three months like I was for Korea in 2010
I suppose a natural follow up to this subject is "Authors who were rejected initially", but then went on to have enormously successful careers, like say Stephen King (who famously threw 'Carrie' in the trash), or Frank Herbert, who shopped around 'Dune' to some 20 different publishers and got rejected every time (until a car repair manual printing company picked up 'Dune', and that particular editor was then fired in turn, cause 'Dune' sold too poorly...initially ofc! All in all, a fascinating subject!)
The trouble with your proposed topic is that it's a long-winded way of saying "authors". There might be one or two authors who genuinely never got a rejection letter, but they are going to be the tiny minority - or entirely self-published. UA-camr Jill Bearup released a video today of a Q&A session she did as part of promoting her book. She did a series of UA-cam shorts, about a novelist trying to write a low-magic fantasy novel (ie pop-culture medieval vibes, but you can't tell her she got anything wrong because it's technically a made up world so it works the way she says it does - but no actual magic anywhere in sight) and arguing with her heroine about the expected tropes of fantasy-romance. People said she should turn them into an actual book, so she did, and got approached by publishers asking to see the manuscript, only to turn around and say "it's a great book, but we can't market it" because it's too critical of the tropes to be a standard romance, doesn't have enough fantasy to be a fantasy, doesn't have enough literary aspirations to be literature, and the meta/contemporary stuff doesn't fit into any standard categories either... So even when publishers were directly approaching her to ask to read it, Jill still got rejection letters. Anyone having to actually go looking for a publisher is going to be even more likely to get rejections.
Thank you for releasing an episode so soon after the last. My cat passed this Sunday and I needed some comfort ❤️ thank you to everyone involved in this production. And rest in peace my sweet baby Athens. It was an amazing privilege to have loved and been loved by you.
Brandon the new Path of Exile game is coming out Friday. You should try it! It is an mmo but it looks like the best Diablo-like game that has come out in years
Man, this episode was really hard to listen to. Became thoroughly disenchanted with the writing industry, especially the trad pub industry. Just couldn’t do it, and time ran out (i.e. had to get a real job) before I could ever get good enough to make it.
First I'd like to say thank you for this video it's, comforting isn't exactly the right word, something like that. I've written a couple of books. (not very good.) I'm coming to the end of a first draft of a book that i think might actually end up half way decent after some revision. There are some clunky bits in there but I think over all I'm happy with the shape of it. Once revised it will be the first book I go on submission with. I'm nervous and excited. This may or may not be my breakout book but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Hopefully with feedback that I can learn from. If i never get published I'll still write, writing is fun. not always easy or often easy but fun.
Wait, this isn't dating advice... well anyway, that first letter Dan read was probably longer than all the rejections I've gotten in the past three years put together lol. Maybe in another three I'll get some kind of personalization too...
I would image the most difficult rejection is either a standard form, and getting to hear it's just fine. If it sucks, or for example a "show don't tell" is written over the letter, you know what to improve. If it's great, but not the right moment you know you are on the right tract. But a standard rejection or just fine? What do you do with fine? Just fine might the worst response as it means your story is just run of the mill. Despite doing it alright, it's missing the spark. To put it bluntly, it's not special. And that just suck to hear.
I'm a self-published indie author with a severe lack of inflated self-importance. They hit big due to TikTok almost 2 years ago and I'm doing okay with them. But you can't get a rejection if you've convinced yourself you're not good enough to send anything 😅
So given Brandon is a bit business-y, and given he's already built out all the pieces of publishing he needs for his own better ways for himself, how long until Dragonsteel just becomes a full publisher with lots of authors (at least of speculative fiction)? It can't be that much longer can it?
Random question...do you guys like musicals?? With all the movie chat recently, it made me think of movie musicals vs stage play musicals and your like/dislike for each? I think you've talked briefly on it before, but are you also the type to relisten to the music from said musicals on repeat??
I'm wondering how much of the book's content that was mentioned in the rejection letter was also in the synopsis/summary that the author handed in with his writing...bc yes the letter is formulated very nicely and sounds like ChatGPT to me (which doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing ofc)
Kevin J Anderson is proof positive you don't have to be a good writer to get published. I'm sure he's written something good, but in the dozens of his books I have read... none were.
😂 I recently reread his Jedi Academy trilogy which I loved as a kid, and oh boy it did not hold up. But Stackpole's "I, Jedi" was such a good follow-up, where Corran Horn goes around being like "Well, that's stupid, why not do this instead" and trying to fix all the dumb things Anderson's characters did 😂😂 it did not make me want to read any of the multi-tome series that Anderson has somehow gotten published. But as you said, maybe some are better than what I read.
@@aldarrin Nooooooo why did you have to remind me that those books exist 🤢🤮😂😂 oh well, it's just more motivation to write my own stories and appreciate good writing when I find it. Even halfway decent prose is so nice to discover, like the bit of Joe Abercrombie I was handed recently by a friend. Simple and refreshing.
Ayo that’s my rejection letter! It felt REALLY good. I’m really pleased about it. 🎉
Now I want to read the book
@@TheEvilmanikin It's actually a short story, not a novel. If it's not accepted by any markets, I'll be happy to share it with people.
STORMLIGHT 5 IN TWO DAYS!!!!
cannot wait
Crazy, isn't it!?
Pre oreddddderrrred!
I NEED ITT
Not for me because amazon is despicable 😢😂
only 6 months left until the Arcane season 2 discussion episode
"Got Dear Johned by a bunch of Science fiction magazines," is an awesome line
I dunno if that’s better or worse than when a guy in my MTC zone got dumped two weeks after Christmas tbh
On page 180 of WAOK and just want to say thank you Sanderson for all your writing. Helped me loads with my mental health
When it comes to rejection, my dating life prepared me for my writing life
Sydney
Can’t get rejected if u never try get on my level
That "Alright. I'll do it myself" was a low key cold as he'll flex 😂😂😂
"I'll do it myself". I really want to see a Thanos meme with Brandon's face on the mad titan's body taking up the infinity gauntlet.
As someone who has received a lot of canned rejections, getting a personalized one definitely feels like a win. I've had a few of them and they've told me I had a story that was close. Uncanny Magazine gave me a really nice rejection spelling out what was missing from a short story of mine. I sold it a couple of of months later for $500 (which is a lot for a little scifi story!).
The real downside is that you often have to wait several months for a rejection 🙃
It's not what the pitch promises' is the best pitch I'll be buying into. Thank you for that.
I was just honored to meet the one and only Adam thank you for all the hard work you do!
8:05 shows how good Joshua is at spotting a potential success
The fact that you posted this episode with this topic today is kind of amazing. I am a Norwegian author and, I got rejected some financial support for my book today and it really bummed me out. So thanks guys❤ I needed this.
A night of blacker darkness is hilarious! ❤
2 more days until Wind and Truth!!!!!!!!!!! Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watching from my hotel room at Dragonsteel Nexus 😁
People get rejection lettters?! I just get silence 😂😅
I’ve gotten a few.
They’ve almost all been form letters besides one where she said something just wasn’t clicking for her, but even then she wasn’t specific so maybe that was also a form letter
I started writing when I was 7, but never really told anyone about it. By time I was in my 30s, I became serious about it.
"Laminated Roll of Rejections" sounds like the worst Christmas gift ever LOL
The law does not care if the other guy is a bad person if you actually violated the law. "But judge, they didn't give me the raise I was promised so I was just taking what was owed to me." Is not a winning argument. That is not a hypothetical, it's from a case I actually worked on. I also worked on a case that factually revolved around the ownership of a live chicken, just one. I've had a weird legal career.
If only we could all save our life’s rejections in a giant laminated roll of shame… wait, what were we talking about again? …oh.
JOURNEY BEFORE DESTINATION
Fun thing. I love Brandon Books much more, but i am much more Dan like person.
loved this episode
I really hope this episode ends with
"You know who I got rejected by... Ben"
"How about that"
Your family opening and reading and then sending them in bulk is some dark stuff, man. Your family game nights must have been intense.
Brandon’s rejection letters would have been your stories are very long….very very very long 😂….now they regret not publishing 😅 thank you for sharing and keeping up Brandon…I wouldn’t have loved fantasy as much as I do now without your stories.
Brandon!!! My wife and I have been royally screwed by Amazon. We were supposed to get your amazing book this Friday and now it's coming next Monday even though we had pre-ordered back in August 😢 We also bought the audible version. If anyone from your team sees this. Please reach out so i could get a digital copy emailed? After proving my previous purchases of course! But we absolutely have to read this amazing book on Friday if at all possible! We are up to date on all early chapters! Huge fans obvi!
I remember your Dad from one of these episodes, reminded me of my Dad. He had no problem opening my mail either. Haha
I was wondering why my reactions and perspectives were ao different from these guys and then they talked about "inflated senses of self importance"... And suddenly, it all made sense
There is a translation guide to rejection letters interpretation in Scott Eddlestein's 30 Steps to Becoming a Writer... particularly for weirdly aggressive letters. It's in the back near the appendices. Unsure if it is in all editions.
Coincidentally, just got my first ever rejection!
One step closer to becoming a published author.
Rejected by Marion Zimmer Bradley? What a relief, huh?
oh 8086, dos, now I know how old I am lol.
I had an agent request a manuscript. After I sent it it took her 8 months to respond that she doesn't deal with my genre anymore but that I've really got something there lol
Been three years and I'm still waiting to hear back from an agent I was emailing back and forth lol
Oh my gosh getting a box of rejection letters in the MTC sounds horrible 😂 especially since you were probably stuck there for like three months like I was for Korea in 2010
I suppose a natural follow up to this subject is "Authors who were rejected initially", but then went on to have enormously successful careers, like say Stephen King (who famously threw 'Carrie' in the trash), or Frank Herbert, who shopped around 'Dune' to some 20 different publishers and got rejected every time (until a car repair manual printing company picked up 'Dune', and that particular editor was then fired in turn, cause 'Dune' sold too poorly...initially ofc! All in all, a fascinating subject!)
The trouble with your proposed topic is that it's a long-winded way of saying "authors". There might be one or two authors who genuinely never got a rejection letter, but they are going to be the tiny minority - or entirely self-published.
UA-camr Jill Bearup released a video today of a Q&A session she did as part of promoting her book. She did a series of UA-cam shorts, about a novelist trying to write a low-magic fantasy novel (ie pop-culture medieval vibes, but you can't tell her she got anything wrong because it's technically a made up world so it works the way she says it does - but no actual magic anywhere in sight) and arguing with her heroine about the expected tropes of fantasy-romance. People said she should turn them into an actual book, so she did, and got approached by publishers asking to see the manuscript, only to turn around and say "it's a great book, but we can't market it" because it's too critical of the tropes to be a standard romance, doesn't have enough fantasy to be a fantasy, doesn't have enough literary aspirations to be literature, and the meta/contemporary stuff doesn't fit into any standard categories either...
So even when publishers were directly approaching her to ask to read it, Jill still got rejection letters. Anyone having to actually go looking for a publisher is going to be even more likely to get rejections.
Hollow city sounds amazing, i read what its about and im not sure why i have not bught it yet.
Thank you for releasing an episode so soon after the last. My cat passed this Sunday and I needed some comfort ❤️ thank you to everyone involved in this production. And rest in peace my sweet baby Athens. It was an amazing privilege to have loved and been loved by you.
Patiently waiting for a Cosmere show or movie
Which stories would you prefer as animation or live action
Grate epesode😊😮👍
Brandon the new Path of Exile game is coming out Friday. You should try it! It is an mmo but it looks like the best Diablo-like game that has come out in years
We don't have time for Brandon to play PoE 2! He needs to write not grind!
Man, this episode was really hard to listen to. Became thoroughly disenchanted with the writing industry, especially the trad pub industry. Just couldn’t do it, and time ran out (i.e. had to get a real job) before I could ever get good enough to make it.
no food heist? T_T I hope they aren't gone forever!
Every time I hear the word “slush pile” I get a little demoralized, even though it’s a totally understandable term.
First I'd like to say thank you for this video it's, comforting isn't exactly the right word, something like that. I've written a couple of books. (not very good.) I'm coming to the end of a first draft of a book that i think might actually end up half way decent after some revision. There are some clunky bits in there but I think over all I'm happy with the shape of it. Once revised it will be the first book I go on submission with. I'm nervous and excited. This may or may not be my breakout book but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Hopefully with feedback that I can learn from. If i never get published I'll still write, writing is fun. not always easy or often easy but fun.
16:20 lmao
Adoooonalsium
?
may he remember our plight eventually
Adonalsium-Will-Remember-Our-Plight-Eventually should be a world-hopper
Wait, this isn't dating advice... well anyway, that first letter Dan read was probably longer than all the rejections I've gotten in the past three years put together lol. Maybe in another three I'll get some kind of personalization too...
I would image the most difficult rejection is either a standard form, and getting to hear it's just fine.
If it sucks, or for example a "show don't tell" is written over the letter, you know what to improve.
If it's great, but not the right moment you know you are on the right tract.
But a standard rejection or just fine? What do you do with fine? Just fine might the worst response as it means your story is just run of the mill. Despite doing it alright, it's missing the spark.
To put it bluntly, it's not special. And that just suck to hear.
Ohhhhh... rejection...
Dyslexia is funny sometimes
I'm a self-published indie author with a severe lack of inflated self-importance. They hit big due to TikTok almost 2 years ago and I'm doing okay with them.
But you can't get a rejection if you've convinced yourself you're not good enough to send anything 😅
So given Brandon is a bit business-y, and given he's already built out all the pieces of publishing he needs for his own better ways for himself, how long until Dragonsteel just becomes a full publisher with lots of authors (at least of speculative fiction)? It can't be that much longer can it?
Random question...do you guys like musicals?? With all the movie chat recently, it made me think of movie musicals vs stage play musicals and your like/dislike for each? I think you've talked briefly on it before, but are you also the type to relisten to the music from said musicals on repeat??
Watch some of their older episodes. They talk about musicals a lot
That final timestamp is an absolute abomination of a sentence.
I'm wondering how much of the book's content that was mentioned in the rejection letter was also in the synopsis/summary that the author handed in with his writing...bc yes the letter is formulated very nicely and sounds like ChatGPT to me (which doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing ofc)
Kevin J Anderson is proof positive you don't have to be a good writer to get published. I'm sure he's written something good, but in the dozens of his books I have read... none were.
😂 I recently reread his Jedi Academy trilogy which I loved as a kid, and oh boy it did not hold up. But Stackpole's "I, Jedi" was such a good follow-up, where Corran Horn goes around being like "Well, that's stupid, why not do this instead" and trying to fix all the dumb things Anderson's characters did 😂😂 it did not make me want to read any of the multi-tome series that Anderson has somehow gotten published. But as you said, maybe some are better than what I read.
@@feathercompressor I'll never forgive him for what he did to the Dune Universe.
@@aldarrin Nooooooo why did you have to remind me that those books exist 🤢🤮😂😂 oh well, it's just more motivation to write my own stories and appreciate good writing when I find it. Even halfway decent prose is so nice to discover, like the bit of Joe Abercrombie I was handed recently by a friend. Simple and refreshing.
That letter at the start sounds like chatGPT.
The first bit is a form rejection, and everything after my name is personalized. Even if it was chatGPT it was still personalized by the editor.