The New PP Rework is Actually Good
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Combo Scaling Removal has been merged and is upon us, so what exactly is it and why is it needed in pp? Let's talk about why I think this might be the BEST rework yet.
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#osu! #willyosu - Ігри
Mrekk will become invincible after this rework and no one can come close to the no1 in decade I swear 💀💀💀
accolibed's "new era" will only last as long as combo scaling lasts
yeah this buffs "pass" plays way more which is something mrekk is very good at doing lol
chud son will raise his cheats by 20% and itll be over for mark
@fieryr actually it would still be the most PP play, unless mrekk pulls something very crazy off, his play would stay the most PP for a while
@@iOmegaToxic yeah but mrekk would be pumping 1.3,1.4 and 1.5ks a lot more to the point that a single 1.7k pp play isn't worth enough to outweigh them
Combo scaling removal will make my pp go up, because most of my plays are not FCs unfortunately, but I hope I will be able to fix my skill issue and FC them nevertheless
hahah
my pp go up
first sentence is crazy
ho lee fuk
ayo what
this change might make me return to the game. i would always choke because my mindset was always about the combo, but now i can just focus on doing my best in every part of the map instead of mentally preparing for diff spikes etc
wtf kasper played osu
definitely, the worst part about the game is actually just shit missing and then knowing its a pretty much worthless score unless it's a cool map
@@okdev5420 Fr, especially if the miss was in the middle of the map, that shit actually just completely deflates you mid play
THIS IS MY MKWII GOAT gm kasper
exactly, combo scaling was the main reason i primarily play mania (with a bit of taiko too). might play std a bit more once v1ing is gone
This is great now you won't have to listen to the first 30 seconds of the map over and over again.
I hear the first 5 seconds of a map while sleeping, for some reason my choke point is the first 5 seconds
1. This definitely will NOT incentivize people to FC maps
2. This change is very very good. PP was originally designed to indicate how good someone is, and mrekks Walk This Way 12.4* play being worth 525pp indicates that he is a 4 digit player.
I love this change because FCs are always going to be the premier achievement you can get in an osu map but now you dont need to always fc if you want to get good pp, this is the best of both worlds imo
while this won't incentivize people to fc maps, it will still promote a way healthier mindset, especially if combined with submitting by pp instead of score (although I'm pretty sure lazer stores multiple scores under the same mod combinations already), instead of retry spamming every miss, people will instead try to lower their misscount and increase acc
it WOULD incentivise people to FC because that still gives the most amount of pp possible, barring if you get like trash acc on fcs
@@prakhararohanonly the shit diffspikey farm maps of the current age, I'd argue that the meta will shift to consistent higher difficulty maps with low misscount, instead of diffspikey lower difficulty maps that you can relatively comfortably fc (because consistent difficulty lowers the miss penalty quite a bit, which willy didn't adress for some reason), like all the 7* TUYU jump map scores with sub-10 misses I have go from barely 100 pp to mid-to-high 300s, which is enough to get in my top-100, so instead of farming mid 6* HD(HR), I can switch to low 7*, which is actually better for my improvement, since they are within my improvement range, while my current top-100 is full of first tries/sightreads.
even if the pp system didn't existed you would always be incentivized to FC a map
if this goes through i think they should fix only top score submitting, so many plays will give so much more pp but not get submitted because of score v1.
that's one of the reasons it's not happening now. they need to develop a system for that in stable.
lazer has the infrastructure but stable...
play lazer
only top score isnt on lazer(im pretty sure at least)
@@Zylukiwdym
@fivepandas1 all scores submit online;
In the standard client, only the highest score play per mod combination submits for PP
And, as we know, SV1 kinda sucks
this rework is so good overall. no more retrying mindset and casual players such as me would be able to ignore 1 miss/sliderbreak somewhere in the middle of the map which seems healthy to the game. rewarding for good plays instead of high combo plays seems so refreshing, definitely the greatest rework so far
I NEEDED THIS VIDEO!
Very well explained boss, thank you!
Omg its the shorts guy1!1!!!1!!!1!1!1!
the rip in the neck of the t shirt is a crazy aesthetic. you look mad cute in this one.
zaza
Freaky
Surprisingly, what makes the bigger difference here is not even combo scaling removal itself, but change of the miss formula
It was exponential before, so no matter how long map is, how hard it is, how consistent the difficulty is, big amount of misses will destroy all pp
Now it's quadratic, with dependency on amount of hard parts in the map, making even 100 miss plays worth some pp
Combo scaling removal itself is mostly about plays with 1-2-3 misses in the middle, when change of miss formula covers pretty much everything else
Also, thanks Willy from the pp dev team for making this video with clarifications
I personally enjoy trying to pass maps that are way above my skill level, so if this means setting a little more than 1-30pp im down lol
thank you for this video. I think people are shocked by losing pp in combo scaling removal, but they'll find eventually that they'd gain pp from plays they wouldn't gain from before. And of course, on pp rework websites, unless you specifically search for your plays, for most people, they don't calculate plays that aren't already in your top 100. I'm guessing a lot of people will probably find new top plays entering their top 100, because everyone misses sometimes.
This would make "farming" so much more fun and if/when we get it it will shift the leaderboards by sooo much
they should do it like beat saber, where you get a combo that maxes out at 8x and briefly drops lower when you miss.
I was skeptical but i really liked your perspective on this matter. Now i'm not that skeptical anymore!
Finaly that change is perfect for me, I get shaky at the end of maps and also i like to play diffs that i know i can't fc but i can pass with good acc.
Same, the only reason my rank is 1.8 million is because I play 5-6 star maps, so I shake and choke in the middle of the map
If you tend to miss near the *end* of maps, this won't change too much for you.
this might actually make me return potentially after like 1.5 years lmao
a few years ago I thought score>pp would be something that peppy would fix in 2 days and say "Why didn't anyone tell me about this"... but since it's apparently Still here I really hope this change incentivizes that change to happen soon
Hate to break it to you but since it is fixed in lazer im not sure if classic will ever get this change
One thing I feel like I'd consider a lot that is briefed at 8:56 is that it helps incentivizes accuracy over combo. Given consideration with all forms of players instead of just the top ones, I feel like it helps create better habits than a bare minimum for combo control. I think there are players who end up giving up accuracy in certain map patterns just to FC a map at its current state.
This would be a mind blowing change, honestly might return to the game if this goes into affect
same.
combo scaling is the reason I stopped caring about my standard ranking
This rework will actually make me better because it will finally get me out of the retry spam habit and make longer maps more viable for me
wow you explained this really well thanks billy
I think this is a great change. osu being a very combo dependent game was a issue since the beginning and I think this will encourage people to enjoy the game more and be more creative.
nice vid! agreed fully! the change on walk this way seems too much at first... unless you realise how much you get for FC, and then you realise that it's... scaled quite well actually lol, and that actually the fc might be overweighted. hence such
i think that this change makes the awarded PP of each player more accurately reflect their skills, and can remove the grindy aspect of trying to mindlessly FC a map you have mindblock on, making ranked play more enjoyable, as you can set a worthwhile score on any map as long as its hard enough, and you play well enough. it splits the casual ranked players from the diehards, as it it still rewards Consistent play. i can see this making lots of different songs available to practice on whilst still gaining pp. for most players, i can see this feeling more rewarding.
overall, having the option to gain reasonable PP from a new variety of maps especially when you have less time to play the game, IE inside the 7-5 digit range, will make the game alot more enjoyable for the vast majority of the playerbase.
What do you guys think? i don't know what other takes there are on this change.
This will actually get me back into playing more..
Because I always felt so defeated if I didn't FC cuz it felt like nothing mattered.
this will actually get me into grinding both mania and std again
i hope it also counts to ctb and taiko aswell
Mania getting that LN nerf. If you look at the recalculations, almost all top players are losing more than 1000+pp.
Oh on my experience. I think Taiko has been doing that. When I miss near the end, I still gain a good amount of pp
Mania isn't reliant on combo
solid video, unironically made me like the rework more. however, you did leave out the topic of "nerves" which is a pretty interesting one for this rework since it is a whole different aspect of the game
Personally, it will for sure make me more relaxed and able to focus on my acc instead of my heart going 727bpm trying NOT to miss🙏🏻
@@VictorB7782and overall just somewhat more healthy? Although the adrenaline is definitely still there when you FC since it was difficult for the player to do or along those lines.
Damn, looks like i might actually start playing again if this change rolls out, this is what ive been waiting for
yay, I actually want to submit scores now
this change will make pp based on how many misses you get rather than where you missed, my plays that got heavily nerfed are maps where I chain missed at the end meanwhile my 99% 1 miss on a long 5.8 star got buffed by over 30pp, making it my 5th highest play after rework. This is a good change that will give incentive to playing harder maps rather than easy farm maps
i think this gives some what of a reason for the top players to actually see the gain in something rather then just well i got this but like we humans like to SEE the progress ourselfs, so i think this rework could be an intresting change.
i only dabble in standard, taiko being my main and this change makes me want to play more standard in the future, i just hope score v2 becomes standard for all modes soon
i started playing rythm game on osu mania, when i moved to standar i didn't understand why they made combo way more important than accuracy
Akatsuki Relax mode has a similar system already implemented, and I have to say it makes farming better in many ways. Not only does it help with consistency since you're not getting used to spamming retries, but it also makes playing harder maps much more rewarding when you finally get a decent miss count. This unlocks some of the middle difficulty spike maps. The only problem I see is ending chokes - one of the most common places to miss or slider break on the final slider/circles. Previously, this costed no pp loss, and for a good reason. Now, it's going to be tilting af.
AYYY a Willy video!
it'll also fix a lot of frustrasion with mindblock 👍
i have two 11*'s in my top 5 i love this rework
based...
wtf
What maps
I would have a 10 star in my top plays and I'm 5 digit
As someone who just recently started playing again and started farming pp to get up on the Germany Leaderboard (#2962 rn), this would make pp farming so so much better since i usually get 30-40pp from a 80-110pp map because i didnt have high combos
Yes. YES!!! I've wished for this for a long time
Taiko PP system is a lot like this, a lot of it depends on the acc instead of the Combo, I've had combo breaks in scores and still have 500pp scores, of course you still have to have decent combo but it factors a lot more on the acc instead of the combo.
as someone who gets really bad nerves on any map with more than 500 combo, this really helps 😅
incredible stuff
this pp change will bring back the joy of playing the game. I improve every day but one thing I never improved on is nerves. Pretty much all my cool scores are shit misses on air and hit the hard stuff. Glad to hear thay soon those plays will be rewarded accordingly
actually crazy good video
i think it is a upside that the pp system will be following suite with something similar to mania pp, but people farming will probably stop going for full combos because of the negligible pp difference from getting a full combo vs a 1 miss on a hard section. I think there still should be a slightly higher PP for full comboing a map but at the same time there shouldn't be such a harsh pp drop off after missing once or twice on easy section's of a map that people at that skill level are prone to fumbling on.
This would single handedly stop me from restarting save me everytime i miss once on like 2-3k combo
The one thing i hope I don't lose ranks as to what happen to the last rework (lost like 15k of my rank-)
as someone who hasnt been able to keep up with the community skill level increasing, this change would probably bring me back to the game to want to play again. it would be the best thing to ever happen to the game IMO
let's goooo my rank will double after months of not playing
If everyone's rank doubles then nothing will happen to your rank
I’ll go from 240k to 65k lol
@@username_-ce7kt no you wont.
@@username_-ce7kt name?
@@username_-ce7kt and I'll go from 130k to 3 digit
I started mania in 2014 and loved the fact that we can get good score without FC, have tried to go back to STD in 2016 using HR/HD a lot and was frustrated cause i got some play that i was proud but the they wasn't fitting the FC PP system, that the best change they can go for STD players.
The worst they can do is sliders with activate/release like LN (Coming from an LN enjoyer), i hope they never do that cause players just gonna quit.
if ive not played for a while and do some maps, will the rework affect old maps or is it for the recents new plays
i had a play on nasyas ghost rule that was crazy for my rank at the time i had set it, being as i had missed on the easy part of the map about 500 combo in, i had absolutely no nerves going into the diffspike and almost fced the entire diffspike, with only 2 misses right at the end of the map. 4 misses total, i know nasyas ghost rule might be the easiest 7* in the game, but this was effectively a almost 400pp (387 if fc) choke that i set when i had just a few 250s as my tops lol, with the rework it will be getting bbuffed from 209 to 270pp, which i think is appropriate. the play is still at the top of my nochoke at 387pp if fc to this day. i have not been able to replicate the performance since
Thank you. Now i can finally understand that after 8.5 years of playing the game ;D
Is there a date when it will be live?
yeah I think what people mean by not going for fc is that they think because a 1 miss anywhere in the map gives majority pp that there is no reason to go for the fc to gain 100pp extra (like in whitecat yomi yori hr). Though overall this is definitely good because mrekk walk this way being worth almost 2kpp less because of 11 misses with that acc is insane. 1300 is way more accurate imo.
They have this sort of system for osu taiko so I can't wait for them to do this to standard as well.
I'm getting buffed as a clearing player (I haven't forced myself to suffer fc's on farm maps yet)
all i want for christmas is nerfing speed
Me when speed: 😩😵💫
my only concern with the rework is if they address score v1'ing or not, because right now if you get an insane high acc score with 1 miss in the middle of a map and it can still be overwritten by a score with higher combo and more misses than I feel like this rework could do more harm than good
How will slider ends be involved in this? Would it count as a slider break/mistake or no reduction for it at all?
such a W video dude WE LOVBE WILLY
I feel like this makes the game more fun and enjoyable for me. Often times when I just slider break in the middle i just give up the map and become frustrated when this happens on a lot of maps. But if i know that I wont get like 50pp but rather something I can still be fine with, thats actually really cool. I mean if I still get some pp even if I break, but dont want to farm a Map for 100 tries to get the FC eventually, im completely fine with that.
Actual good change that I think will make the game more fun, even getting some pp when just trying to have fun.
Finally i don't have to retry spam when i broke combo just like in mania
This is basically the akatsuki!rx pp system without the relax reduction to pp
i have to bring attention to some dt one tricks, a friend of mine cant play anything but dt maps at 95-97 acc we both are around similar pp range, he gets +110 i get +30 even tho my scores are near ss plays on maps that are 1.5-4 times longer and i also play dt, aim, speed and other kinds, deffo not the most equal change in that regard
Imma go with 100pp skip if this rework comes in,choked some nearly 6* jump map with lot of squares,I hope so🙏
Yay!
Most mobile/modern RGs always valued acc more than combo for score and rating anyways. Nice to hear that osu is going to be in-line.
Have thought about a system like this ever since I started playing the game in 2014, no idea why this is happening now, I think everyone thought about this at some point
ive been fiending for this rework since it was first thrown around, this will make the game so much better and there is really no argument against it
Great video
le combo scalling removal serait la chose la plus benefique pour mon compte, j’ai tellement de play avec des problemes de fc
mrekk, will be unstoppable after this rework
YES YES YES YES YES!!! ALL KINDS OF YES!!! This rework is a HUGE W in my opinion because combo based pp is actually so bad and I'm glad that the pp system is getting a rework that actually gives you something for playing something harder and passing it, passes aren't worth nothing anymore and that's incredible, great job to the team for that one, but, there's still one glaring issue, and it's in lazer (cut to the framerate counter not going passed 1000Hz) yeah, this is a problem
I believe that a good change, at least in terms of providing a new direction.
And it still needs some improvement. As mentioned in the video, the current pp system calculates scores based on the entire map as a computational unit. It doesn't assess the difficulty of the sections where players miss notes individually.
The current pp system heavily emphasizes Full Combo, effectively incorporating the overall map difficulty. in some extent, it covered the problem I mentioned, because you need FC the map anyway if want to get pp.
But if we seriously consider Combo scaling removal, accurately assessing the difficulty of missed sections becomes crucial. (Although everyone tends to miss in similar places, so the problem won't be that serious?)
actually, we can count the pp for hole map, why not to consider a map as several parts？
When player get a miss or slider break, use the miss as a reference point and extend several notes before and after it, then exclude or reduce that segment’s difficulty from the pp calculation. just like you can go into the edit mod and delete several notes around the miss, and calculate the new map's PP.
Then, if you want to get more pp, you at least still need to FC the hard parts for dozens of combos.
this change is very good, now retry spam after the first miss is less valuable, so it will improve skill and consistency for most players.
the only problem kira kira choke is now my number 1 play
where do you see how much the plays will be worth with the rework?
I don't play osu anymore but what are your thoughts on 1 miss near the end and 1 miss in the middle. I feel like it is unfair to base the two as the same, because their will always be a lot more pressure and nerves with holding fc vs holding 1 middle miss. Then again I don't play this game I just would like to here opinions on this.
This comes down to what people see as skill and thats subjective. Personally I think combo scaling makes some sense but I cant imagine how hard it would be to implement fairly.
I'd love to have ppv1 back :P
With this change, rank will actually mean something outside of like the top 10.
do we have an information about when this update will come out?
I think there should still be some combo scaling. Obviously when you're nearing an fc, you get nervous and the map becomes harder, if you're holding an fc towards the end of a 6 minute map, you'll be far far more nervous than if you weren't. But removing scaling entirely ignores that difficulty increase. Right now that reward is way too much, but it should still exist.
And yes, since FCs are still worth a lot more, holding fc will still make you nervous, because you will still get more pp.
Also to elaborate further, I think my top play is a good example. It's my first 7 star fc choke, but I missed on the easy (probably 4-5 star in difficulty) part on the 6th last circle. I was holding 1.5k combo, I was incredibly nervous which is why I missed in the really really easy part. But now, that 375pp, 390pp choke becomes 350pp. Obviously it should be more to hold an fc under those conditions, because hitting a 7 star pattern is so much easier than missing on low star patterns while holding an fc 6 notes left to your first 7 star fc top play. It's silly that it's worth 50pp less than if I would've hit it, and that play would be the same pp if I missed in the middle, where I wasn't nervous at all (I didn't even think I would fc the map lol, I was just playing it for the good song, seni foreground eclipse from under cover top diff btw)
Dude mania players get nerves from playing when they know they are FCing a map. Combo hardly matters in mania as if you've seen some videos Cpol has uploaded of mania pp records, they get bunch of misses and plays are still worth thousand+ pp. Granted mania is infinitely harder than standard in terms of no missing, (more or less talking about 7 key mania) as having the coordination to move 7 fingers independently on 11+ star maps is finger control beyond insane for 99% of the osu community. I've set 700+pp plays in mania and you get more and more nervous the closer you are to the end because you feel your heart beating out of your chest and you get anxious you're going to shitmiss which never feels good in any mode
@@penguino4251 My comment is about there being a reward for this. If you completely remove combo scaling, it does not take this into account at all. If it's really reduced, but still there, that is better than both ways in my opinion. It's not like the devs will listen though, since they don't even want to hear criticism for this change.
I think a miss in the end of the map should still be worth more than in the middle, but it should be way closer than what it is now. Because it weirdly over values fc too, like in the case of my top play, where missing the 4 star pattern on the last 6th note makes me lose 40 pp vs an fc.
I kinda feel like combo scaling removal will lower my pp because i have a lot of last note or last part chokes. I get so nervous at the end of fcing a map that my eyes water and i stop breathing
S(h)ame brother😮💨
as a combo player i agree
is this update already live or was that an idea that might happen
Good video. Yeah this change does absolutely nothing to FCs. Also with this I can be less hard on myself for 1xmisses.
i was watching the video with stone face, but at 8:05 i got neuron activation. a rework that buffs insane plays like this (especially mrekk scores) will be a banger. where can i sign for it?
When will this update be active and for both osu?
this feels really similar to taiko pp, I'm a really big fan!!
I enjoy fc'ing maps, but I appreciate that the system actually gets (more or less) gets fixed now after all these years
FINALLY, my 1 miss on Sunglow 98% just might remove Padoru [Gift] SS as my top play
no more heart attack inducer
Question. Whenever this come into effect will it affect already submitted scores? Example: I set a 1 miss early on into the map but FC’d the rest and inly got 250pp (6.7 sr). Will this play get buffed from 250pp to Xpp? Or will it only affect new plays after its implemented?
As someone who played alot daily back in the days and reached #15k global in standard I feel like these are good changes. What got me to that rank was not skill, it was farming the same 500 max combo 6.2* jump map over and over with HD to get more PP. I was never incentivised to get better, I never wanted to play harder maps because I was "good enough" to farm PP.
I recently started playing a bit again (partly bc of your channel, partly bc osu! Dev channel) and I feel like combo has been a big issue ever since the beginning. I think I personally could improve at the game a lot with this new system. I'm eager to see how my (now #75k) rank decays even further with these changes.
Putting Aricin's iceangel score as an example is one of the most goated moves I've ever seen.
I always thought this score was absurd and people don't appreciate it enough because of combo scaling
bangs are good today
this is huge change for acc players
Used to not like the rework until this video, now I think it's fair.
I actually cannot wait for this update. Being forced to full combo somewhat easy maps if I want to gain any rank has always been my only gripe with osu standard.