Hey thanks a lot for checking out my vid! If you want to stop by and check out my website, Zombie Guitar here is the link: www.ZombieGuitar.com ...Thank you!
Hi Brian as you probably know I have been a follower of yours for years and just watched your Vid on the 12/24 Key approach with your explanation of Modes and I finally decided that you would be a good to person to Collaborate with you on some eye opening never before seen Material on Guitar Musical Theory, Fretboard Analysis and advanced Fingering Techniques. What is your Email?
About five years ago, a certain bassist approached this subject in a UA-cam video, raised a few eyebrows, and impressed many people. Today, Brian Kelly addresses the same subject with the precision and technical accuracy that we expect from the finest teacher on UA-cam. I think we all know that Zombie Guitar followers can consider themselves so, so lucky to have this guy (genius) as our website creator. Yet another class tutorial!!
The 12 key model is what I arrived at myself. I believe we are of 1 mind on this. Good to have my own determinations reaffirmed, haha. Great presentation, sir.
Absolutely. I am a great believer In Occam's Razor. basically, what ever is the simplest solution to a problem is probably the correct one. I think I can understand and work with the 12 key model (which I will call the BK Model from now on). The 24 key model just complicates things and make life more difficult. "If it sounds right it is right" and to me logically the 12 key model sounds right.
I was JUST watching a video about this British man who had severe Obsessive-Compulsive disorder. But not only did he arrange everything in the house all day, he counted things out in 12's or 3's. It was so sad because he was geuinely traumatized and physically exhausted. And unhappy. At the end of the video he said that to the camera (it was a filmed documentary in his home) "if ANONE can help me, I'm willing to try anything." All that time I kept thinking about music harmony. Not just the 12 tones, but how the 5th degree of a root note vibrates three at 1/3 the speed of that root notes. The three literally creates the key. Literally The Blessed Trinity in action. So I kept thinking that I could have been showing him how to SING the numbers instead of count them. Put piano-keyboards around the house. Translate his mindless "mental harmonic" arrangements into FUNCTIONAL music. I should mention that I discuss the 12-tone "topic" and my Theory of Pitch Psychology on my channel here if interested. Thanks for you 12-tone comment!
The bestest guitar theory guy in internet land. Making what I once considered advanced algebra into common sense albeit with couple little rules to learn. I am with the 12 keys school of thought because Brian taught me.
Another fantastic video, Brian! I've been teaching myself how to play piano for many years. More recently, I've been transferring all my music theory knowledge to the neck of the bass. While I was not aware that there were two teaching models of music theory, I've realized over the years that many people are confused about a lot of music theory concepts. And now you've made it clear why. The 12-key perspective is so much simpler and it brings everything together in a nice cohesive package. It's a fast video! But you've covered pretty much everything. Thank you!
I’m glad to have your explanation of the two teachings. I knew that there were two different teachings but all I knew was of the 12 key methodology. Now I understand that’s all I need, so thanks. I really enjoy your videos because you explain everything well.
WOW. At last, using the 12 key model as you explain I at last understand what Modes are in terms of use. I will now concentrate on the 12 key model. I will understand that other musicians may want to use the 24 key model but I will just accept that's what they have been taught then ignore that. It also helps me now in understanding In Key Chords and playing lead within the Mode being used. This is the best Video you have ever made.
THIS explains alot of misconceptions I've had over the years learning theory. The 24 key pattern of thought is restrictive, whereas the 12 key thought process is easier to comprehend and understand where you are, and what you should be listening for.
Finally someone has said this! To be honest i think this is the way JS Bach thought of the 12 keys. It's also hinted at in the way he would end almost EVERY minor-key piece of his on a major chord. (Therefore a C#-minor prelude would end or "land on" C# major. It's sort of a strange reminder that the minor-key itself is an illusion, and is always harmonically dependent on it's relative major. It's almost like he's taking away it's negative energy and slipping into the positive. A sort of blessing in a sense, as well. I see a color-shape for each key, and amazingly, to me, it's spectral, with C beginning the 12-note spectrum as Rad (square shape). D is orange and a trapezoid. E is a yellow triangle. Up to A-flat being a blue circle. // I guess, what I'm getting at here is that always think of the minor chord's coloring as "relative" to it's relative major. For example, not surprisingly, loves songs get constantly written in C (red), but songs on LUST or DESIRE are written in C-minor (For example, the theme of greed in, the Pet Shop Boy's "Opportunities." C-minor. So, therefore, even though C-minor turns love to lust, the secret is that lust (a negative emotion, and in fact one of the 7 deadly sins) is a spiritual illusion in itself. It may "seem" like lust is a thing of the flesh (C/red), but the reality is that C-minor does not come from the flesh (red) but from the mind: E-flat major. A golden yellow. Shape of a megaphone. // And, of course, what I'm implying is that there is a set spectrum of "psychology" to the notes as well. And I break it down in 12, not 24 aspects. My Theory of Pitch Psychology can be found here for those interested. Thanks to Brian Kelly for bringing to light this very crucial topic of how we approach music theory and categorization.. And, yes, I also tune to a432Hz Scientific Tuning. Ha. But that's another topic. - The Acoustic Rabbit Hole
Bravo, Brian. Brilliant explanation and for me the end of the confusion. Just one thing more: in each one of the 12 keys we have 6 pentatonic scales corresponding to the 6 major and minor chords.The diminished chord is the bad guy with his b5 interval and no pentatonic scale!
Great point! For anyone interested in the "6 pentatonic" concept that Ahmed is talking about here, I did a video about that recently: ua-cam.com/video/UnugWBZPBho/v-deo.html
Interesting lesson, Brian. Given 12 key system and our major/ionian key is the default one, then you basically could have one (unified) way of numbering chords in progressions, no matter if major or minor, if you always numbering from major perspective. So from the major scale perspective, the Stairway to Heaven progression would be: vi-V-IV (Am as the 6th of C major). 4-Chord progressions can be numbered like I-V-vi-IV (major variant) or vi-IV-I-V (minor variant).
another thing is that when you start playing music from the double harmonic major scale or harmonic major scale: you will have both flats and sharps in one key. There are a lot of odd scales that have both flats and sharps in key. I personally just go by the intervallic formula to make my music- it helps me to keep things organized. I like the 12 key model too.
U took a lot of time on this it’s good I’ve watched twice so far,I’m gonna go have a look at the circle of fifths again I’ve seen that easy over 5times I’m trying to fix it in my head 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Amazing and Concise video about the topic. I love this kind of format! If I may suggest, I see you are not utilizing the 'Playlist' functionality of youtube. Maybe this could be a start of a series of 'Music Theory Infographics'? Superb video as always 👍
Good video. I use the 12-key/modal approach, as it makes everything so much easier to understand and implement. When combined with the 3NPS fingering, transposing tonal centers, chords, etc. becomes a breeze, as it is just as easy to play in A Lydian, as it is in Ab Lydian, or E Lydian, etc. from the standpoint of fingering. Thanks
Hi Brian, You made the case for me. The last thing I need is something that is inconsistent when I'm trying to learn. I'll be a 12 key guy as I like things that are mathematically consistent. Ken
Great explanation again. Thanks for that video and respect for your patience, to pray your mindset to this theme over and over again. I follow you now since several years, but even before I found your channel on UA-cam, I was aware, that only 12 diatonic keys exist. One for each of the 12 notes. And with each of those keys you can craete 7 sounds, ….that’s the modes, including the natural minor mode, which ist he 6th mode (aeolian). That’s the most logical aspect, when you think about it. That’s the fundamental thing. Everything else (…and there is a lot…) is extended. The same framework is even valid for harmonic minor or melodic minor keys, but they both are just extensions or variations oft he 6th mode oft he diatonic key. If you think about it this way, it will take the complexity of music theory off your mind, espacially when you come from Germany, where you get tought that your tone „B“ is an „H“ and your „Bb“ is a „B“, ….. totally confusing. Fortunately this mindset disappears more and more (exept in the classical music). But, …. understanding theorie is one thing, to get it under your fingertips is another. And there’s no way to it, but practice. So I would be glad to see another practice-video. Thank you so far.
That's another thing too! All the different ways that people use to notate the same thing (like your German examples)...there really needs to be just one single standard. IMO the 12-key model is definitely a huge step in that direction. Thanks for checking out the vid 😀
I was confused and didn't know why. I did not know there were 2 conventions, 12 Key and 24 Key. I would go along and everything worked until it didn't. Now I know why there were occasionally bumps in the road. Thanks Brian.
Brian Congratulations 🎉 For Musically opening Pandora’s Box 🎶 Now the Journey can Truly Begin🎸 The Video is a Fantastic insight into why most Guitarists Struggle to Express themselves Musically even though they know deep down that have something to say that People want to Hear.
Brian, this is a "nice" way of explaining this. You are giving the benefit of the doubt to many people with differing motives. Here's what I mean. There are 12 KEYS, period. There are 15 key SIGNATURES due to 3 enharmonic keys, period. There are 7 modes in each of the 12 keys, giving us 84 unique sounding scales. And yes, we can create other scales that don't fit this model. So the people who go along with anything other than this are 1) misinformed; or 2) purposely creating confusion to generate sales of lesson content. That's it. And here's what the misinformed people are missing. If I am looking at the minor as a distinctly different "key" than the major, then I just doubled what I have to learn. Most of these people will never get beyond the 2 scales, so they have cheated themselves out of 5 more variations simply because they buy this silliness. They have twice as much to learn and get 24 scales. I have half as much to learn and I get 84 scales. I get 3 1/2 times as much variety from half the effort. AND i DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR LESSONS. That's a win I'll take all day long, every day.
Hi Brian! Great lecture! I am 100% in line with you, however I think many of us will still keep major vs. minor in a corner of the head. When I improvise in Am, I "think minor", I target the minor 3rd, the minor 7th... In C major, same 7 notes, yes, but I "think major", my major 3rd, my major 6th. But in the end, with experience, I think directly in modes. A Santana thing in B Dorian, an AC/DC one in A Mixolydian, etc. I know it will stay controversial until the end of times, but to me the least ambiguous should be the pair: tone + mode. C# Lydian = No room for hesitation. Cheers.
The 12 key model is practical; the 24 key model is impractical; therefore, the impractical model is taught in colleges and universities. This is not the only impractical subject taught.
This is interesting.i never really gave a shit how many keys there are.from what I’ve learned major scale is king,everything is based off that.i always look at everything from the major scale sixth chord is your relative minor.seems much easier that way.
You can go down endless rabbit holes of theory and never spend much time making music. For most of us, once you know the pentatonic shapes, where the intervals are for any diatonic scale and can find the key of a song, you have most of what you need. Build up a catalogue of licks and call it a day.
What exactly is the difference? I don’t see what 12 key adds to standard harmonic analysis. The minor mode is “default” out of sheer practicality, because nearly all songs are either major or minor. But in 24 key theory the major scale is still the default, there are no dedicated minor key signatures. The idea that the major scale holds all other modes is as old as music itself, the concept of relative minor is not something new. So to call one 24 and the other 12 is not accurate. Why is it not 84 since every key contains 7 modes? Sure there are only 12 key signatures but you still have to have names for different tonal centers. Yeah a minor is the same in terms of notation as C, but musically it is not, to specify that it does not follow the same harmonic function as C you still have to introduce some concept to differentiate, you then still end up with an extra key or mode or whatever you call it. Like you could argue there are only 7 tones and that you just move the pitch of the scale up or down depending on need, oh this song is in 262Hz, turn a knob and you are done. But then you still end up with the exact same thing, you will have to make names for the settings you use a lot because the music is made using a particular kind of musical vocabulary.
@@zombieguitar I don’t understand this. If I write a song in Ab or Cm they both have the exact same note names and key signature in 24 tones, so why doesn’t the math agree with this? The pedagogical focus on minor keys is practical but it isn’t in the system itself, a minor does not have a dedicated key signature. Kinda like if you are studying jazz hardcore you will focus on dorian more because that mode is more common in that style of music, but that doesn’t change the system itself, dorian is not a dedicated key but a mode of major. What am I misunderstanding?
@@LesterBrunt Ab major and Cm have the same notes, which is why they are considered the same key under the 12-key model. Under the 24-key model, this would be considered 2 different keys. This then gives special privilege to modes #1 and #6 of the parent major key, which is where one of the bottlenecks in the 24-key model occurs.
@@zombieguitar But only in terms of functional harmony, not in terms of interval relation. If a song has a pattern of am dm E am, this would still be called C major but with #6 as tonal centre. How is this not exactly the same as calling it a minor?
The impression i get is that theres an idea of having two different established "sounds" "spaces?" "keys" of major and minor, and that would be why it would make sense to think of things in reference to either the major key or to the minor key (and why there would be two "defaults") For the same reason is why people make a distinction between keys and modes (though i dont think it makes any sense to discount the possibility of someone having another mode or "scale" established in their mind in the same kind of way, I understand how it makes sense to say that modes are not keys and that dorian is not a key (in that sense) and that there are only 24 keys as a result, but i also think that if someone can experience/perceive them in that same way then it could be limiting to say that dorian cant be a key "because there are only major and minor keys" (because if you're trying to use the words to describe experience, then if your experience of dorian and major are of the same kind of nature then it would make sense to describe them both as being the same kind of thing). though if you're trying to learn some historical or specific method of thought then i can also understand the idea that, in that context, someone might be considered to be wrong to refer to dorian as a key (even if their experience of major and dorian are the same) edit: to be clear (and to be transparent, im editing this after Brian Kelly hearted this), i'm not against people saying that there's 24 keys, I don't think it necessarily makes sense to say that 24 keys is not mathematically consistent (because in a case where major and minor are unique, then it makes sense to have both as frames of reference), and I'm not against people saying that there are fewer or more keys (12, hundreds, thousands, etc), I just think whether or not it makes sense for an individual depends on the intended/particular meaning, and whether the use of the word is accurate depends on the exact experiences of some individual (or whether it can accurately describe more general/average experiences in society (or within some genre or idiom) given that you're trying to describe broader social experiences [rather than only on an individual level]) edit: if you're going to take the time to unheart this please at least take time to read my comments here sometime because it took a really long time to think all of this through and type it out lol (this one and the one in reply to the other chain [the other comment has a lot more nuance and elaborates more than this one does]) edit: test
Hey man I think you are mistaken...I never "unhearted" this comment. I don't think that I have even seen this comment until just now, so I never even "hearted" it initially. And if I did "unheart" it, then it was by mistake because I don't just go around reading old comments and then removing hearts...that would be a major waste of time 🤪 Anyway...I completely agree with what you said, and really there's no "right" or "wrong" way to think about this stuff. I just wanted to bring to attention the fact that there are these different models that are being taught, which is something that many people may not be aware of. Many people just assume that the 24-key model is the only way!
I keep it simple… 1 major scale with 12 notes… When the scale goes up I sharpened the notes for mathematical logic… also when the scale goes down. The university-stuff is only for theoretical purposes if you work with an orchestra(Trombone in b; flute in c; horn in f clarinet in (b)e for example) Trust me buddies… if you need a mental breakdown… the university-way is the best way😂
I've come to the conclusion that if a bunch of drunkards and druggies can make music, this stuff isnt hard to understand. If anything, it is too easy to overthink it. This is a great video, thank you for making it!
TRUTH. I wonder how long it took Brian to edit his spot-on monologue to be so to the point and correct. Wow! The 12 key model is truth. The 24 key model is an adaptation to Western sensitivities. I could argue that the Lydian scale is the most natural scale, over C Ionian. I haven't completely worked out the math regarding that subject and I likely will not be able to do so, but yeah, I posit that Lydian should be recognized as THE major scale. I welcome all input upon the subject. I'm greatly torn upon this topic. It seems to me that the construction of scales themselves are more conducive to Lydian being more mathematically correct, while Ionian may be more physiologically correct in regard to humans' response to music. I pray for the revelation of the absolute beginnings of music, but also fear what I may find.
Someone brought this up to me once about the Lydian scale being "the one"...that would actually make a lot of sense because Lydian is the brightest of the 7 modes. This person also pointed out to me that if you go around the circle of 5ths, it arranges parallel modes by brightness (just a cool fact about the CO5 😁) Why Ionian is considered to be "the one", but it is only the 2nd brightest mode out of the 7... That doesn't make much sense either. It would make sense if Lydian was "the one" for sure 😁
@@zombieguitar Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. The additional points that you've made are true and worthy of consideration. When I get to listening to or reading about the most basic and most intelligent analyzers of the origins of music, I find myself at a place where I could go either with Ionian or Lydian as the true natural scale. I'm hoping that the next life beyond this one will reveal the answer I'm looking for. Your comments are greatly appreciated. Zombie on!
How does the C# major scale have an E#. I am a new player so don't torch me but how are there E#?? One of the two methods your comparing. I'm learning as much theory as i cam comprehend... it has help me tremendously in progressing on this new journey LOL.
Yeah confusing. Way I understand it Basically you can only have one of each letter in the key. Otherwise E# iwould be called F flat then you'd end up with F flat and F in same key. And sharps and flats
I never understood the two note per fret thing,for a long time,but it’s for that reason you just mentioned naming scale degrees and chord names.like a minor 7 flat five,or dom 7 sharp 5 etc
As the others above pointed out...it's because that when "spelling out" a key, you need to have all 7 letters of the music alphabet present, and you don't want to mix sharps and flats. So if you start on the note C#, and you play the major scale...you'll have 7 notes. Writing those 7 notes out by their sharp names (and adhering to the fact that all 7 letters need to be present), you have: Option 1: C# D# E# F# G# A# B# Option 2: Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Both options follow "the rules", but option 2 is less confusing which is why you'll typically see it written as the key of Db major!
@@zombieguitar thanks man. all of you. these are deep insights i'll use later. I have other fundamentals i need to work on. This is surely advanced theory. I am so glad i learned to mix it in with starting as a beginner. Now my theory is better than my dex skills ... fundamentals lol!!
E# is the same as F, enharmonically. It's the same note to your ear in Western music. The reason you want one of each letter in a scale is it helps clear up confusion when writing it down and notating it out in sheet music. Imagine if you had a bunch of notes on the F line, with some being F and some being F sharp, it would look confusing. This way it's only one kind of note per line(unless you stick in an out of key note).
Finally! Now I understand this as well as I understand modes?!?!! THANK YOU. 12 keys, 24 keys, 15 keys, Alicia Keys, Major key, Minor Key, but nothing about monarchies... so much to learn, so little time... P.S. Sara's playing sounds an awful lot like your playing.... just saying...
Kia ora from New Zealand C c# d flat D d# e flat E F f# g flat G g sharp a flat A a sharp b flat B = 17 keys. I see an enharmonics as a Siamese twins, also for example D has two wives C and E kids to both but B, C’s sister is A’s wife whose been having an affair G who is married to F, that’s E’s sister. Simple really. Noho ora mai.
This explained why for me I could always find a "key" to practice soloing with a backing track. But when I looked at other videos explaining "modes".. none of them really made any sense and way to complicated. None of their "expert" videos explained why I was able to just simply find a key to use without even thinking about "modes"... This 12 key approach should be the standard teaching method IMHO because MATH rules the universe. If the math agrees... it's true!
Hey thanks a lot for checking out my vid! If you want to stop by and check out my website, Zombie Guitar here is the link: www.ZombieGuitar.com ...Thank you!
Hi Brian as you probably know I have been a follower of yours for years and just watched your Vid on the 12/24 Key approach with your explanation of Modes and I finally decided that you would be a good to person to Collaborate with you on some eye opening never before seen Material on Guitar Musical Theory, Fretboard Analysis and advanced Fingering Techniques. What is your Email?
About five years ago, a certain bassist approached this subject in a UA-cam video, raised a few eyebrows, and impressed many people.
Today, Brian Kelly addresses the same subject with the precision and technical accuracy that we expect from the finest teacher on UA-cam.
I think we all know that Zombie Guitar followers can consider themselves so, so lucky to have this guy (genius) as our website creator.
Yet another class tutorial!!
Thanks Phil! I'm honestly surprised that more people are not talking about this. It's absolutely insane!!
Love you @Brian
The 12 key model is what I arrived at myself. I believe we are of 1 mind on this. Good to have my own determinations reaffirmed, haha. Great presentation, sir.
Absolutely. I am a great believer In Occam's Razor. basically, what ever is the simplest solution to a problem is probably the correct one. I think I can understand and work with the 12 key model (which I will call the BK Model from now on). The 24 key model just complicates things and make life more difficult. "If it sounds right it is right" and to me logically the 12 key model sounds right.
The 12 key model is intuitive to me, and works for all modes. Simple and straight forward - satisfies the linear mind of this retired engineer.
I was JUST watching a video about this British man who had severe Obsessive-Compulsive disorder. But not only did he arrange everything in the house all day, he counted things out in 12's or 3's. It was so sad because he was geuinely traumatized and physically exhausted. And unhappy. At the end of the video he said that to the camera (it was a filmed documentary in his home) "if ANONE can help me, I'm willing to try anything."
All that time I kept thinking about music harmony. Not just the 12 tones, but how the 5th degree of a root note vibrates three at 1/3 the speed of that root notes. The three literally creates the key. Literally The Blessed Trinity in action.
So I kept thinking that I could have been showing him how to SING the numbers instead of count them. Put piano-keyboards around the house. Translate his mindless "mental harmonic" arrangements into FUNCTIONAL music.
I should mention that I discuss the 12-tone "topic" and my Theory of Pitch Psychology on my channel here if interested.
Thanks for you 12-tone comment!
The bestest guitar theory guy in internet land. Making what I once considered advanced algebra into common sense albeit with couple little rules to learn. I am with the 12 keys school of thought because Brian taught me.
Thanks Martyn! I appreciate you following along all these years 😁
Another fantastic video, Brian! I've been teaching myself how to play piano for many years. More recently, I've been transferring all my music theory knowledge to the neck of the bass. While I was not aware that there were two teaching models of music theory, I've realized over the years that many people are confused about a lot of music theory concepts. And now you've made it clear why. The 12-key perspective is so much simpler and it brings everything together in a nice cohesive package. It's a fast video! But you've covered pretty much everything. Thank you!
it takes a genious to explain stuff like Brian does. He is one heck of a genious
Thanks for the words man. I'm just an obsessed music theory nerd 🤓
I’m glad to have your explanation of the two teachings. I knew that there were two different teachings but all I knew was of the 12 key methodology. Now I understand that’s all I need, so thanks. I really enjoy your videos because you explain everything well.
Keep it simple , works best for me. Great content Brian.
Thank you for the clarification on this. This always threw me for a loop never really understood it until you broke it down. Awesome work.
Yep. Nailed it Brian. Excellent explanation.
WOW. At last, using the 12 key model as you explain I at last understand what Modes are in terms of use. I will now concentrate on the 12 key model. I will understand that other musicians may want to use the 24 key model but I will just accept that's what they have been taught then ignore that. It also helps me now in understanding In Key Chords and playing lead within the Mode being used. This is the best Video you have ever made.
Glad to hear that this video helped to make some things click for you. I appreciate the words! Thanks for watching 😀
THIS explains alot of misconceptions I've had over the years learning theory. The 24 key pattern of thought is restrictive, whereas the 12 key thought process is easier to comprehend and understand where you are, and what you should be listening for.
Great explanation man. I am sure this will help loads of people understand keys and modes.
Finally someone has said this! To be honest i think this is the way JS Bach thought of the 12 keys. It's also hinted at in the way he would end almost EVERY minor-key piece of his on a major chord. (Therefore a C#-minor prelude would end or "land on" C# major. It's sort of a strange reminder that the minor-key itself is an illusion, and is always harmonically dependent on it's relative major. It's almost like he's taking away it's negative energy and slipping into the positive. A sort of blessing in a sense, as well.
I see a color-shape for each key, and amazingly, to me, it's spectral, with C beginning the 12-note spectrum as Rad (square shape). D is orange and a trapezoid. E is a yellow triangle. Up to A-flat being a blue circle. // I guess, what I'm getting at here is that always think of the minor chord's coloring as "relative" to it's relative major. For example, not surprisingly, loves songs get constantly written in C (red), but songs on LUST or DESIRE are written in C-minor (For example, the theme of greed in, the Pet Shop Boy's "Opportunities." C-minor. So, therefore, even though C-minor turns love to lust, the secret is that lust (a negative emotion, and in fact one of the 7 deadly sins) is a spiritual illusion in itself. It may "seem" like lust is a thing of the flesh (C/red), but the reality is that C-minor does not come from the flesh (red) but from the mind: E-flat major. A golden yellow. Shape of a megaphone. // And, of course, what I'm implying is that there is a set spectrum of "psychology" to the notes as well. And I break it down in 12, not 24 aspects.
My Theory of Pitch Psychology can be found here for those interested. Thanks to Brian Kelly for bringing to light this very crucial topic of how we approach music theory and categorization.. And, yes, I also tune to a432Hz Scientific Tuning. Ha. But that's another topic.
- The Acoustic Rabbit Hole
Bravo, Brian. Brilliant explanation and for me the end of the confusion. Just one thing more: in each one of the 12 keys we have 6 pentatonic scales corresponding to the 6 major and minor chords.The diminished chord is the bad guy with his b5 interval and no pentatonic scale!
Great point! For anyone interested in the "6 pentatonic" concept that Ahmed is talking about here, I did a video about that recently: ua-cam.com/video/UnugWBZPBho/v-deo.html
Interesting lesson, Brian.
Given 12 key system and our major/ionian key is the default one, then you basically could have one (unified) way of numbering chords in progressions, no matter if major or minor, if you always numbering from major perspective.
So from the major scale perspective, the Stairway to Heaven progression would be: vi-V-IV (Am as the 6th of C major).
4-Chord progressions can be numbered like I-V-vi-IV (major variant) or vi-IV-I-V (minor variant).
Great video. It cleared the clutter.
another thing is that when you start playing music from the double harmonic major scale or harmonic major scale: you will have both flats and sharps in one key. There are a lot of odd scales that have both flats and sharps in key. I personally just go by the intervallic formula to make my music- it helps me to keep things organized. I like the 12 key model too.
U took a lot of time on this it’s good I’ve watched twice so far,I’m gonna go have a look at the circle of fifths again I’ve seen that easy over 5times I’m trying to fix it in my head 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Amazing and Concise video about the topic. I love this kind of format!
If I may suggest, I see you are not utilizing the 'Playlist' functionality of youtube. Maybe this could be a start of a series of 'Music Theory Infographics'?
Superb video as always 👍
Good video. I use the 12-key/modal approach, as it makes everything so much easier to understand and implement. When combined with the 3NPS fingering, transposing tonal centers, chords, etc. becomes a breeze, as it is just as easy to play in A Lydian, as it is in Ab Lydian, or E Lydian, etc. from the standpoint of fingering. Thanks
Hi Brian,
You made the case for me. The last thing I need is something that is inconsistent when I'm trying to learn. I'll be a 12 key guy as I like things that are mathematically consistent.
Ken
Excellent, well structured and understandable video! This is destined to be a classic resource on this topic.
As William of Ockham said “Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem”. Which roughly translates as “Spot on, Brian”
Thanks Johnny! 😁
Great explanation again. Thanks for that video and respect for your patience, to pray your mindset to this theme over and over again.
I follow you now since several years, but even before I found your channel on UA-cam, I was aware, that only 12 diatonic keys exist. One for each of the 12 notes.
And with each of those keys you can craete 7 sounds, ….that’s the modes, including the natural minor mode, which ist he 6th mode (aeolian).
That’s the most logical aspect, when you think about it. That’s the fundamental thing.
Everything else (…and there is a lot…) is extended.
The same framework is even valid for harmonic minor or melodic minor keys, but they both are just extensions or variations oft he 6th mode oft he diatonic key.
If you think about it this way, it will take the complexity of music theory off your mind, espacially when you come from Germany, where you get tought that your tone „B“ is an „H“ and your „Bb“ is a „B“, ….. totally confusing. Fortunately this mindset disappears more and more (exept in the classical music).
But, …. understanding theorie is one thing, to get it under your fingertips is another. And there’s no way to it, but practice. So I would be glad to see another practice-video. Thank you so far.
That's another thing too! All the different ways that people use to notate the same thing (like your German examples)...there really needs to be just one single standard. IMO the 12-key model is definitely a huge step in that direction. Thanks for checking out the vid 😀
Thanks for this lesson Brian, its pretty intense though. I'll probably have to watch it "24" more times lol 😆
Excellent !
I was confused and didn't know why. I did not know there were 2 conventions, 12 Key and 24 Key. I would go along and everything worked until it didn't. Now I know why there were occasionally bumps in the road. Thanks Brian.
Brian Congratulations 🎉
For Musically opening Pandora’s Box 🎶
Now the Journey can Truly Begin🎸
The Video is a Fantastic insight into why most Guitarists Struggle to Express themselves Musically even though they know deep down that have something to say that People want to Hear.
Brian, this is a "nice" way of explaining this. You are giving the benefit of the doubt to many people with differing motives. Here's what I mean.
There are 12 KEYS, period. There are 15 key SIGNATURES due to 3 enharmonic keys, period. There are 7 modes in each of the 12 keys, giving us 84 unique sounding scales. And yes, we can create other scales that don't fit this model.
So the people who go along with anything other than this are 1) misinformed; or 2) purposely creating confusion to generate sales of lesson content. That's it.
And here's what the misinformed people are missing. If I am looking at the minor as a distinctly different "key" than the major, then I just doubled what I have to learn. Most of these people will never get beyond the 2 scales, so they have cheated themselves out of 5 more variations simply because they buy this silliness. They have twice as much to learn and get 24 scales. I have half as much to learn and I get 84 scales. I get 3 1/2 times as much variety from half the effort. AND i DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR LESSONS. That's a win I'll take all day long, every day.
Hey thanks for the comment! You said it perfectly, and I couldn't agree more! 😁
Thank you, Brian. “Message received.”
Right on Big B. Thanks buddy 😎👍💯👋👋🎸🎸
Hi Brian! Great lecture! I am 100% in line with you, however I think many of us will still keep major vs. minor in a corner of the head. When I improvise in Am, I "think minor", I target the minor 3rd, the minor 7th... In C major, same 7 notes, yes, but I "think major", my major 3rd, my major 6th. But in the end, with experience, I think directly in modes. A Santana thing in B Dorian, an AC/DC one in A Mixolydian, etc. I know it will stay controversial until the end of times, but to me the least ambiguous should be the pair: tone + mode. C# Lydian = No room for hesitation. Cheers.
Good comment, well phrased , true and accurate
thanks for the info.🤝
I use the 12 key model borrowing the other sometimes to talk music to other musicians
Thx for another GOLDEN vid and LOL @29:05.
No questions because I couldn't agree with you............. more. Precise and logical to a fault. Just what I expect from you.
The 12 key model is practical; the 24 key model is impractical; therefore, the impractical model is taught in colleges and universities. This is not the only impractical subject taught.
Awesome info 👏
you kick ass brother!!
Man, you simply are The man.
Thanks for checking out the video Marco! 😁
Great lesson, Nice to know about 24 but I am sticking with 12. Just want to be able to play music!
Another great one, Brian!
This is very good.
Defeat, does not exist, in this dojo - does it!!! no sensei!!! Great video.
😂😂😂
This is interesting.i never really gave a shit how many keys there are.from what I’ve learned major scale is king,everything is based off that.i always look at everything from the major scale sixth chord is your relative minor.seems much easier that way.
I love this video, not to watch it 40 times.
It's just another one of your great videos. "BUT" it's in a different "MOOD", since you're not in it. Cheers! 🙃
🤣🤣🤣
You can go down endless rabbit holes of theory and never spend much time making music. For most of us, once you know the pentatonic shapes, where the intervals are for any diatonic scale and can find the key of a song, you have most of what you need. Build up a catalogue of licks and call it a day.
Thank God I am a 12 guy 🥳🤗kind of a 12 apostle thing or the golden rule it just feels right 🏄🏻♂️
What exactly is the difference? I don’t see what 12 key adds to standard harmonic analysis. The minor mode is “default” out of sheer practicality, because nearly all songs are either major or
minor. But in 24 key theory the major scale is still the default, there are no dedicated minor key signatures.
The idea that the major scale holds all other modes is as old as music itself, the concept of relative minor is not something new.
So to call one 24 and the other 12 is not accurate. Why is it not 84 since every key contains 7 modes?
Sure there are only 12 key signatures but you still have to have names for different tonal centers. Yeah a minor is the same in terms of notation as C, but musically it is not, to specify that it does not follow the same harmonic function as C you still have to introduce some concept to differentiate, you then still end up with an extra key or mode or whatever you call it.
Like you could argue there are only 7 tones and that you just move the pitch of the scale up or down depending on need, oh this song is in 262Hz, turn a knob and you are done. But then you still end up with the exact same thing, you will have to make names for the settings you use a lot because the music is made using a particular kind of musical vocabulary.
You answered your own question - Aeolian is chosen as "default" out of practicality.
The math doesn't agree though.
@@zombieguitar I don’t understand this. If I write a song in Ab or Cm they both have the exact same note names and key signature in 24 tones, so why doesn’t the math agree with this?
The pedagogical focus on minor keys is practical but it isn’t in the system itself, a minor does not have a dedicated key signature.
Kinda like if you are studying jazz hardcore you will focus on dorian more because that mode is more common in that style of music, but that doesn’t change the system itself, dorian is not a dedicated key but a mode of major.
What am I misunderstanding?
@@LesterBrunt Ab major and Cm have the same notes, which is why they are considered the same key under the 12-key model. Under the 24-key model, this would be considered 2 different keys. This then gives special privilege to modes #1 and #6 of the parent major key, which is where one of the bottlenecks in the 24-key model occurs.
@@zombieguitar But only in terms of functional harmony, not in terms of interval relation.
If a song has a pattern of am dm E am, this would still be called C major but with #6 as tonal centre. How is this not exactly the same as calling it a minor?
@@LesterBrunt so you are following the 12-key model then. All good 👍
The impression i get is that theres an idea of having two different established "sounds" "spaces?" "keys" of major and minor, and that would be why it would make sense to think of things in reference to either the major key or to the minor key (and why there would be two "defaults")
For the same reason is why people make a distinction between keys and modes (though i dont think it makes any sense to discount the possibility of someone having another mode or "scale" established in their mind in the same kind of way,
I understand how it makes sense to say that modes are not keys and that dorian is not a key (in that sense) and that there are only 24 keys as a result, but i also think that if someone can experience/perceive them in that same way then it could be limiting to say that dorian cant be a key "because there are only major and minor keys" (because if you're trying to use the words to describe experience, then if your experience of dorian and major are of the same kind of nature then it would make sense to describe them both as being the same kind of thing). though if you're trying to learn some historical or specific method of thought then i can also understand the idea that, in that context, someone might be considered to be wrong to refer to dorian as a key (even if their experience of major and dorian are the same)
edit: to be clear (and to be transparent, im editing this after Brian Kelly hearted this), i'm not against people saying that there's 24 keys, I don't think it necessarily makes sense to say that 24 keys is not mathematically consistent (because in a case where major and minor are unique, then it makes sense to have both as frames of reference), and I'm not against people saying that there are fewer or more keys (12, hundreds, thousands, etc), I just think whether or not it makes sense for an individual depends on the intended/particular meaning, and whether the use of the word is accurate depends on the exact experiences of some individual (or whether it can accurately describe more general/average experiences in society (or within some genre or idiom) given that you're trying to describe broader social experiences [rather than only on an individual level])
edit: if you're going to take the time to unheart this please at least take time to read my comments here sometime because it took a really long time to think all of this through and type it out lol (this one and the one in reply to the other chain [the other comment has a lot more nuance and elaborates more than this one does])
edit: test
Hey man I think you are mistaken...I never "unhearted" this comment. I don't think that I have even seen this comment until just now, so I never even "hearted" it initially. And if I did "unheart" it, then it was by mistake because I don't just go around reading old comments and then removing hearts...that would be a major waste of time 🤪
Anyway...I completely agree with what you said, and really there's no "right" or "wrong" way to think about this stuff.
I just wanted to bring to attention the fact that there are these different models that are being taught, which is something that many people may not be aware of. Many people just assume that the 24-key model is the only way!
@@zombieguitar It was actually hearted, now I'm wondering if the act of editing removes hearts by uploaders automatically /gonna test that
@@zombieguitar ok sorry, it actually does automatically remove the heart....
@@abyssssbmusic1370 glad we cleared this up! 😀
Brilliant - but where is student Sammy ????
🤣🤣🤣
I keep it simple… 1 major scale with 12 notes…
When the scale goes up I sharpened the notes for mathematical logic… also when the scale goes down. The university-stuff is only for theoretical purposes if you work with an orchestra(Trombone in b; flute in c; horn in f clarinet in (b)e for example)
Trust me buddies… if you need a mental breakdown… the university-way is the best way😂
Isn't the 24 key model better for keyboard?
I personally think the 12 key model is ALWAYS easier, regardless of the instrument you're playing on!
Both systems work, but why would anyone use the 24 key system when it's 10X more complicated?
So do some people use an 84 key model? #seriousquestion
I don't think so, but if they did it would be more accurate than the 24-key model 😁
I've come to the conclusion that if a bunch of drunkards and druggies can make music, this stuff isnt hard to understand. If anything, it is too easy to overthink it. This is a great video, thank you for making it!
Proud 12 key type of guy here😀
TRUTH.
I wonder how long it took Brian to edit his spot-on monologue to be so to the point and correct.
Wow!
The 12 key model is truth.
The 24 key model is an adaptation to Western sensitivities.
I could argue that the Lydian scale is the most natural scale, over C Ionian.
I haven't completely worked out the math regarding that subject and I likely will not be able to do so, but yeah, I posit that Lydian should be recognized as THE major scale.
I welcome all input upon the subject.
I'm greatly torn upon this topic.
It seems to me that the construction of scales themselves are more conducive to Lydian being more mathematically correct, while Ionian may be more physiologically correct in regard to humans' response to music.
I pray for the revelation of the absolute beginnings of music, but also fear what I may find.
Someone brought this up to me once about the Lydian scale being "the one"...that would actually make a lot of sense because Lydian is the brightest of the 7 modes.
This person also pointed out to me that if you go around the circle of 5ths, it arranges parallel modes by brightness (just a cool fact about the CO5 😁)
Why Ionian is considered to be "the one", but it is only the 2nd brightest mode out of the 7...
That doesn't make much sense either.
It would make sense if Lydian was "the one" for sure 😁
@@zombieguitar Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts.
The additional points that you've made are true and worthy of consideration.
When I get to listening to or reading about the most basic and most intelligent analyzers of the origins of music, I find myself at a place where I could go either with Ionian or Lydian as the true natural scale.
I'm hoping that the next life beyond this one will reveal the answer I'm looking for.
Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Zombie on!
Brian you are most personal music theory consigliere 😂 I’m sure the theory trolls will be out and pissed of about this video
Thanks Kane! I'm interested to see how this video is received over in the music theory sub Reddit. I just posted it 😮
How does the C# major scale have an E#. I am a new player so don't torch me but how are there E#?? One of the two methods your comparing. I'm learning as much theory as i cam comprehend... it has help me tremendously in progressing on this new journey LOL.
Yeah confusing. Way I understand it Basically you can only have one of each letter in the key. Otherwise E# iwould be called F flat then you'd end up with F flat and F in same key. And sharps and flats
I never understood the two note per fret thing,for a long time,but it’s for that reason you just mentioned naming scale degrees and chord names.like a minor 7 flat five,or dom 7 sharp 5 etc
As the others above pointed out...it's because that when "spelling out" a key, you need to have all 7 letters of the music alphabet present, and you don't want to mix sharps and flats.
So if you start on the note C#, and you play the major scale...you'll have 7 notes.
Writing those 7 notes out by their sharp names (and adhering to the fact that all 7 letters need to be present), you have:
Option 1:
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
Option 2:
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Both options follow "the rules", but option 2 is less confusing which is why you'll typically see it written as the key of Db major!
@@zombieguitar thanks man. all of you. these are deep insights i'll use later. I have other fundamentals i need to work on. This is surely advanced theory. I am so glad i learned to mix it in with starting as a beginner. Now my theory is better than my dex skills ... fundamentals lol!!
E# is the same as F, enharmonically. It's the same note to your ear in Western music. The reason you want one of each letter in a scale is it helps clear up confusion when writing it down and notating it out in sheet music. Imagine if you had a bunch of notes on the F line, with some being F and some being F sharp, it would look confusing. This way it's only one kind of note per line(unless you stick in an out of key note).
Never even heard of the 12 key model
Every video I ever made follows the 12-key model 😁
I didn´t make it till the end 😞
The ending: there are 12 keys 😁
Finally! Now I understand this as well as I understand modes?!?!! THANK YOU.
12 keys, 24 keys, 15 keys, Alicia Keys, Major key, Minor Key, but nothing about monarchies... so much to learn, so little time...
P.S. Sara's playing sounds an awful lot like your playing.... just saying...
Ya that Sara is always trying to copy me!! 🤣🤣
Kia ora from New Zealand C c# d flat D d# e flat E F f# g flat G g sharp a flat A a sharp b flat B = 17 keys. I see an enharmonics as a Siamese twins, also for example D has two wives C and E kids to both but B, C’s sister is A’s wife whose been having an affair G who is married to F, that’s E’s sister. Simple really. Noho ora mai.
Very confusing. I rely on my ears.
So do I
Butt 😅😂
🤣🤣🤣
what a bunch of crap....easier to use 12 keys, and the modes are related
This explained why for me I could always find a "key" to practice soloing with a backing track. But when I looked at other videos explaining "modes".. none of them really made any sense and way to complicated. None of their "expert" videos explained why I was able to just simply find a key to use without even thinking about "modes"... This 12 key approach should be the standard teaching method IMHO because MATH rules the universe. If the math agrees... it's true!