Roman Legions - Sometimes found all at sea!
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Today we take a quick look at some of the maritime highlights of the new special exhibition at the British Museum about the Roman Legions:
www.britishmuseum.org/exhibit...
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
If you had to send a time traveling British fleet to aid the Carthaginians in the Punic wars (a god of the seas level Patreon donation), which years fleet would you send assuming you could only exchange supplies and personnel annually.? An age of sail fleet might be able forage better, but more modern ships might end the war sooner.
Drach, as someone who spends a great deal of time at the rifle range, I appreciate how tiny changes to an optic mounting system, rifle bedding and barrel harmonics can wildly throw a shot off point of aim - even at short distances. Slight variations to these components, when compounded or stacked, will throw the shot off even more and make troubleshooting the issue extremely difficult. I can't imagine the complexities in dealing with these issues on a much larger and complicated system like a warship - especially while at sea and in battle. Was it common for sensitive components, or those require extreme precision like bearing surfaces, to get knocked around to the point where they were no longer reliable? If so, how was the issue mitigated in component design? How was it addressed during battle? I am thinking of everything from range finders, fire control computers, gun levelling/aiming components and the turrets/mounts themselves. Thanks
His name was Sha'ool, not "paul".
How did Viking longships compare to other period vessels? Were they good warships or only useful for transportion to the nearest undefended peaceful village for a round of good old fashioned pillaging?
I am writing a dieselpunk novel where i need a ship that is being able to produce fuel, ammunition, guns, ships (up to 4000 ton cruisers) and maintain aircraft. Considering that surface raiders were able to produce fuel, especially big ships in WW2 had machine shops capable of replacing their equipment, apart from gun barrels and complete boilers, and that probably aircraft carriers were able to make some spare parts for aircraft, what kind of limitations and bottlenecks in such production do you see? Can you please share some general thoughts, what facilities such a mothership will need to do her functions?
An exhibit of Roman arms? So that's where the arms from all those statues went.
Be VERY careful when feeding sharks!
@@johnbuchman4854 CAVE TURPIS
Yeees.... You will show yourself out?
How about that winged Victory ? Somebody clipped her good !
😐
If you hate your job just appreciate you're not the guy in the roman navy who had to refill the snake pots when ashore.
I am reminded of a bit of shipboard nomenclature: There was a segregated bilge section under the section of the shaft from number #1 engine room going through #2 engine room on its way to the screw, on my nuclear-powered cruiser. Being under the shaft, it could collect a decent amount of oil along with the usual water seepage. It was not a popular bilge to clean, and because it was segregated, there was no direct suction on it to simply have it pumped overboard. Dewatering and cleaning it was an unpleasant, and unpopular job. Chipping & repainting it - even less so.
It was known as: "The Snake Pit."
I don't think sailors have lost their antipathy towards ophidians.
The Romans were kind of famous for turning sea battles into land battles, especially during the first Punic war, so this makes perfect sense to me Drach
so THEY did have earth benders!
I can't wait to tell my professor I was right!
Thanks to the museum also for letting Drach film prior to opening without the cacophony and rabble of a crowd swirling around him as he tries to film. Impressive display.
You’ve been waiting for a chance to use that word for a long time now. Congrats.
The larger dagger from Herculanium is a "pugio." It was standard gear for legionaries, or at least some ranks. The name is from the same root as "pugilist," which gives you an idea of how it was used.
Punch, stab/slash?
stabs, it's a small easily maneuverable dagger, with a long/thin blade, it's perfect for stabs to get through armor.@@edwhatshisname3562
Stab punch stab slash stab
The Romans did like their stabby short blades over longer slashing ones generally.
Don't forget the motto of the Royal Marines is in Latin "Per Mare, Per Terram" - By Land, By Sea. There have been several times Britain found itself short of marines, so drafted in soldiers to make up the difference. One such time was the beginning of the French Revolutionary Wars, when several infantry regiments and one cavalry regiment found themselves at sea. This led the cavalry unit to adopt as its cap badge, the seahorse. (I heraldry, this is known as "canting arms" - "Canting arms are heraldic bearings that represent the bearer's name (or, less often, some attribute or function) in a visual pun or rebus.")
As a north Surrey lad I am aware two of the local regiments (now amalgamated) one started as a marine regiment, had some captured serving silver from the Glorious first of June and apparently took the loyalty toast sitting down like sailors.
1:42 - brits of a certain period of the 90s took one look at that bust and went "Ello, its me... the Head!"
That hound has a good bit of resemblance to a Pyrenees. We had one as a livestock guard dog, and there are lots of stories of them fighting off threats like bears, mountain lions, and whole packs of coyotes.
That Marine from Herculaneum gets around. I saw him in an exhibit in Washington, D.C. a few decades ago not long after he was unearthed.
He probably got around in life too.
Even with his travels as a marine I bet he never thoguht he'd travel _that_ much.
As a retired US Marine I find it creepy that they’ve dug him up and drag his remains all over the place like it’s not disrespecting the dead.
So if I go dig up a body I’m a grave robber but if some guy says he’s an archaeologist and digs up a body that laid peacefully for over a millennium …. That’s okay?
I saw the crocodile armor and immediately thought "Ice Warrior"!
DrWho approved. 😊 ⚓
Correction Drach the Republic was already dead by the time of the Battle of Actium, the war with Antony was just to defeat a rival and to pull the eastern provinces into his fold.
That is true if we look at the time period through the lens of history. However, Augustus didn't want to end up sharing the fate of Julius Caesar and so he made many concessions to the senate to keep the facade of republican government alive as long as possible. His public posture was that he was merely a "first among equals", not a king and that was the main reason he was able to make his power grab so easily.
Man, 26 years of service and retired to Pompey 😢
"Pompey" the Great was a General and Roman statesman, *Pompeii* is the city near Herculaneum.
He might have escaped though.
To Portsmouth?
No-one deserves that punishment...
@@williestyle35was just about to say that lol
22:25 Caracalla? If I'm right I obviously think way too much about Rome. Thanks Drach, wonderful follow up to the Actium posting puts it into a bit of perspective.
That's indeed Caracalla if you compare it to any of the known busts of him. His murder started Rome on the downlope of a series of rapid successions with no emperor lasting more than a few years. This is generally known as the time of the barracks emperors, because political succession to Emperor depended upon the support of the army, with the Senate and aristocracy generally irrelevant.
As someone who served in the U.S. Marine Corps, this exhibit is a welcome surprise to learn about. Thank you, Drachinifel.
Retired devil dog here. But dragging the dead Marine around us just wrong.
That a scutum has survived is amazing, since they were made of wood. It has good luck swastikas on it as well. They say the swastikas are Indian in origin, but here you have it on a Roman scutum. No one has said anything about trade between India and Rome, or the adoption of good luck symbols like swastikas.
You know the greeks invaded india in the 4th century bce, right? Then the romans took the greeks. Theres reasonably clear lines of transmission for culture and goods.
The romans and the chinese knew about each other. No reason to assume they werent in contact with India via the silk road if nothing else.
@@sugarnads Just because you conquer someone doesn't mean cultural ideas get transmitted back entirely. Alexander died in India and his empire fragmented. It's possible the Romans came across the swastikas from the Middle East since the Ptolemies ruled Egypt and portions of the Middle East. The Silk Road went north of India and was blocked by the Himalayas. So, trade would go through Constantinople. It's possible the swastikas came from India via China, or India via the Middle East, but who knows?
@@johnmoore8599Alexander died in Babylonia, not in India.
Regarding Paul’s shipwreck, one of the last things the crew did to buy time was to throw the wheat into the sea, so it was very likely a grain vessel.
Yet! don't worry Drac, you'll make it one day
Fun Fridays have been really fun as of late
Well, hardly any comments, what's that about?
As usual, a fine work of well researched and interesting video. Thank you for all you do very kind Sir..
Well the video is 30 minutes old soooo..
As a retired US Marine, I'm glad to know that the Romans had Marines as well. Sea soldiers. I think that at times it's a bit harder than land soldiers where they have room to fight, while Marines had to fight in close quarters or have be swept overboard. Plus, being seasick in rough waters.
Romans actually were the some of the first to have dedicated Marine units
Also the Persians , an Greeks, an Etruscans had marines.@@jonathanwhite5132
Semper Fi
Or drowning, because no one can swim for very long, if at all, wearing metal and leather armour. One wrong step or slip or someone else shoving you off balance and your life is immediately forfeit in one of the worst ways possible.
Personally I'd fear that above getting killed by an enemy weapon like a spear or sword. At least that might be somewhat quicker.
I bet a good portion of casualties from these battles were from simply drowning after taking a wrong step in the heat of the moment.
Maybe your not old enough to be an exhibit, but I am. I enjoy your videos. I've learned a lot that I didn't know about naval history, thanks.
Molotian hound is, mostly, one of ancestors of Cane Corso. Good job Drach! Cheers!
All hail Drachinifus Britonus YouTubus for keeping us in the know.
Really interesting video. Thanks for handling the human remains respectfully. It’s a nice touch.
I grew up with St. Bernards. A book we had on them stated that they were the result of a cross between Danish Bulldogs and these Roman War dogs. On the shot (picture) strait at the face (not from the side) darned if it didn't look like the head of a St. Bernard.
The painting of Appion and the woman next to him are incredible. They look made in the renaissance.
So, marines has a long historical tradition of "devil dogs"?. I have to say, i wasn't expecting this particular subject, but, it was a enjoyable subject.
Bravo Zulu Drach-you know youv'e really made it when you are working with the Frigating British Museum!
Pretty sure Asterix and Obelix had a few run-in's with the Romans at sea.
Pirates also had to get new ship regularly.
ah, i can see you're a man of culture and obviously fond of historically correct documentaries too. Salutations to you Sir !
Yes, but Asterix and his tribe were drug cheats. Ask their pusher, Getafix.
Always regret not taking French in college as they used Asterix comics as textbooks...
I learned a good portion of my Latin from Asterix and Obelix.
Some might call me a scholar of sorts.
God, now I'm craving some juicy roast boar.
Regarding the size of the shield, most ancient people (and pre modern people in general) were significantly smaller than people nowadays. Your estimate that you'd like a few extra inches all over is probably in line with the general several inches shorter Roman men were than you are
Visited the British Museum last year in my first visit to the UK and was really impressed! Wish this was there.
When in London, once uponna time Ithougt that I'd betta go see British Museum. Never got past the front hall ! You could spend a whole lifetime in there and never see it all ! If in Vancouver, I would recommend our Museum of Anthropology . Also our Maritime Museum.
Had the same problem in St. Petersburg. Been there 4 times and still haven't seen everything.
Those museums are on a completely different scale.
Maybe there was a crocodile Dundee in Roman times who knows That's not a Knife this is a Gladius..
The "large knife" is called pugio. Check the wiki.
Anti-shipping weapons (except rams) were not really a thing in Antiquity, since as you pointed out many times and Prof. Rankov so poignantly put it, it is very difficult to sink a wooden ship, particularly when of the 45 tons of displacement fully loaded of a trireme 15 or so are the crew, which also partly acts as ballast; and when that ship gets holed, your ballast gets out as quickly as it can, and the victor ends up with lots of floating, but still serviceable, hulks.
There were of course instances of warships sinking - storms, by and large - some of them presented in sources of the period: structurally compromised vessels, that could have been rammed multiple times, or particular tactics employed by smaller craft to take down a bigger opponent by ramming it from different directions - ideally, from two opposing sides. Sometimes this would even break the ship apart.
However in battle you really do not want to sink an enemy ship if you could capture it, it was a valuable asset and a considerable investment to build, particularly the bronze ram, so capturing an enemy's was a good way to enlarge a navy without necessarily investing as much of the tax payers' money as your opponent.
Call me a skeptic but 150 tons seems a bit high for a crew
It's a 200 strong crew (170 rowers + 30 deck hands including helmsman and captain), so giving an average of 75 kg per man it rounds out to this exact number. Still an average, but a fairly believable one.
@@tommasobalconi that'd be about 16 tons
Crap you're right I've added a 0 without noticing, I will correct the comment, it should be 45 tons of displacement and 15 of crew.
Even up into the 20th century some navies were still trying to enlarge their own fleets with captured ships from other navies.
It's really not a bad idea, even if you're just going to scrap it for certain valuable components or raw material.
A ship is a hell of a lot of potentially free wood/steel.
Excellent. Pretty long ago my Mom&Dad spent a month in England, mostly the countryside but the did visit the big museums, they were very impressed and loved the didplays and all the history and quality of displays.
Drach really does have a good speaking voice for these things & is so fluent even in person! I wonder if people weren't occasionally waiting behind the camera to observe his presentation of the material.
The Roman navy must have been well educated.
They had a lot of classis 😝.
There was the Classis Britannica, Classis Pontica, and Classis Germanica for a start.
10:53 Saint Paul was an Apostle, a Disciple and a Roman Citizen which put him in the best position to do what Jesus needed him to do! God is truly amazing!
As far as the remains of the Roman Soldier, I wish you had shown him because as a disabled person I will never get a chance to see any of this. 😒
Thank you for showing what you did show and explaining very clearly and concise. God bless😃
Excellent video. I’m very jealous of seeing this exhibit in person. As to the shield, bear in mind that you are likely considerably larger than the average person of the time, so this may account for the coverage difference.
Bro, what the hell!? Roman legionnaires had better retirement benefits than most workers alive today. Vive la révolution.
Retired legionnaires got land too. Often in an unsettled area with other retired soldiers to start a new colony. Which is how Hispania ended up supplying all of Julius Caesar's legions and several of Pompey's.
@@zeedub8560 Retirement after 25 years with a pension equivalent to 10 years of pay and land to boot. I'd sign up in a heartbeat.
The British Museum is amazing. My 1st trip to London was in '05. The 1st stop after checking into my hotel was the British Museum. It did not disappoint.
“If” you are interested in the Roman Legions ? I’m sorry that’s not an if
I spent three hours there yesterday. It’s amazing.
I saw that - heard about the exhibit - when I saw there in Nov 2023. Now I want to go back JUST for that exhibit.
Ohh, good and here i had just stopped thinking about the Roman empire for the day.... Ohh, well there's always tomorrow.. :D
One never entirely stops thinking about Rome.
Great work Drach, I really enjoyed your take on the exhibition. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Did they adopt any Egyptian gods for the navy? The mixed stuff is some of my favorite artwork. There's nothing better than Anubis painted in senator's robes with legion armor beneath.
That was a fascinating video Drach! Love the social history research you do.
Appreciate you doing more non yank stuff
Fascinating tour. You just made it my goal to try to make it to a trip to London to see this exhibition before it ends on 23rd June 2024. Thank you for sharing with us. Cheers from Denmark.
Absolutely Drach ! Keep it comin' !
Wow , living in Australia it's not likely that I could see this exhibition AND have it explained in depth by The Maritime Man! Super. Thanks, Mike
Great job, Drach !!!
Lots of changes at the British Museum since I was there in 1964!
Thanks Drach.
Time Team were asked to go and help out at a dig in the Netherlands. They found a fantastic example of a Roman vessel on what would have been the Rhine. The programme included sketches of what the Rhine would have looked like at the time - as it was a frontier as well as an important trade route that needed to be guarded. There were guard towers all along it and I imagine the river would have been used as part of the military logistics network for sending troops and supplies out to Britain's Roman Army. Doubtless there were Roman soldiers on board.
I just found your channel today and I immediately subscribed. Not only is your content extremely cultured, but also your viewership (pun intended). Thank you so much for publishing this video online for those of us who love both the British Museum and Roman history, but are limited by distance to actually see the real deal in London. Cheers
Having followed the channel for 4 years I will say that you made a good choise. This channel sometimes produce the most remarkable videos, and is always worth watching and liustening to. Should I recommend one particular video, and I do recommend it, and I do promise in advance that you won't waste your time, search for:
_Drachinifel - "The Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron - Voyage of the Damned"_
P.S. After seing this video I guarantee that whenever someone says the name _"Kamchatka"_ you'll by instinct respond with: _"Do you see torpedo boats?"_ ...Enjoy.
Fascinating!
I would love to visit the place!
With all the amazing ship wrecks that have been found in the blacksea looking like they sank last week instead of thousands of years ago it will be great if they find a roman warship in similar good condition. It would be better than looking at small bits of pot to see it full scale!!
That a guy wrote home to ask for a grappling hook sounds like a true professional.
13:51 Loving the crocodile armor.
great stuff Drachinfelilhinel!!!
Thanks for sharing that with us!
Thanks Drach
Extremely interesting, thank you very much I thoroughly enjoyed this vid!😊
Don't worry, be happy.
Augustus needs some googly eyes. I mean they're almost there anyway, but googly eyes would be the perfect finishing touch.
Gotta love that Roman red paint.
Damn I wish I was able to go to this museum. I would have loved to go there.
Good stuff. Thanks.
The scutum from Dura-Europos was originally much less curved, although the exact curvature is hard to find out as the shield was unearthed in so many fragments. According to one archaeologist it was 'restored to death' later.
Shame I'm a poor boy in the US. I'd love to see this exhibit.
RIP to the marine who died saving others, thank you for your service
Romanes Eunt Domus.
What did the Roman's ever give us ? .... we'll now you come to mention it, gold, so we stopped killing them ... for a bit !
I live north of the short lived Antonine Wall.
The mullered you, there just wasn't anything worth having in Scotland.
Yeah, the great Roman War Machine that wins battles and then retreats because it can't hold the ground. Still happens today, militarily superior nations that finds the population doesn't accept their presence. Afghanistan is the prime example.@@thomasbaker6563
"People called Romanes, they go, the house?"
😊😁😂🤣@@zeedub8560
Dura Europos scutum was found in fragments and warped. It wasn't this semi-cylindrical before that tunnel collapsed on the shield owner. It still is over a meter tall so about enough to cover from the chin to somewhere under the knee because a fighting stance for this was slightly crouched and shield held in front of the body. It's fairly late as scuta go. It's from Sassanian wars.
Does that mean that we might get a special of Drach and Irving Finkel chewing the fat over the history of table top games?
Very interesting.
3:27:
"YO! WHAT'S UP DIPSKIRT?"
sounds like something I'd be called in HS...
wonderful!~~~
Perhaps as a Marine he discovered that he liked a grappling hook as a weapon and couldn't get one as a legionary.
13:05 seems like an inscutable mystery to me.
We should bring figureheads back.
There should be quite a few at the bottom since two different adventures into Germania with an attempt to sail home around the English channel ended in disaster . I imagine the place is absolutely littered with Roman artifacts
What a decades long war can do to an ancient seafaring civilization.
I was going to ask when Drach was going to turn his videos into a podcast format...Then the last drydock he says he is doing just such a thing! Nice.
Some time when i see things like the roman soldier on display in the glass box i ever wonder if my body will be a exhibit in a museum one day? Like thousands of years from now?
Mine will be also. In Riplys believe it or not
In reference to your description of the Scutum, the wikipedia page for it does state that it has warped more inwards since it was found back in 1933. Also, while you are correct that is the only square scutum found, there is believed to be an ovular scutum found, though I don't believe it is known if that was truly Roman or not. I can't find much on it other than where it was found and a few old photos.
17:07 "If you were really clever, you might fire something like a pot of snakes"
Imperial Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron:
A shield covers a lot more of your body if you stand with more of your side forwards rather than your front.
The legions just fought land battles at sea😊
I’d bet those snakes would be none too happy after being flung through the air in a dark jar and then smashing onto a ship
IEEEEE!!!
I don't recall the material of the ship head Minerva was made from/of being mentioned.
13:00 Average height at that point for a Roman was something like 5 foot 2 - 5'4.
Reminds me ovva comment, made to me by this blazin' gay waiter that I worked with once.One shift, he said to me, " Murray, you must be part Italian. " I innocently asked, " Why you think that ? " His reply, " You've got Roman hands ! " Just about sh*t myself !
Maybe he was the marine who coined the term "fortune favours the bold":P
Enjoyed Drach! Where is the Corvus? Thanks
Wow, what about that bad-ass looking crocodile skin armor at 13:35?! Who the heck wore that?
Ice Warriors
Yo, apart from the porn bots, I think I might be first. That's novel.