My, oh my. What a wonderful teaching, and towards the end when Tim was referencing Spurgeon and really driving the point home... well, there aren't many I know of that can do that like he did. Such conviction and logical, reasonable persuasion. How could anyone not fall in love with God after considering what He did for us?!? Thank you Father, our Creator. Thank you Jesus, our Savior. Thank you Holy Spirit, our Indweller. All glory and honor and praise be to our God forever and ever! Amen.
Tim, I've been searching for this message my whole life. I heard about you from my cousin Jules who used to attend your church in NYC years ago. Jules died on Dec 25, 2009 at the age of 50. Before he died, he led me to God and, through your sermons, he's still doing it. Please pardon the corn but I write this with tears running down my face, and I'm a Jersey guy. Thank You
Dude, you wrote this comment 3 years ago and I don't know if you still believe in what you said back then or not. But unlike all these positive comments I deeply feel sorry for you that after a life time searching, you cry from joy to find out that everything is a puppet show??? Wow...
@@michaelbrickley2443 Sir, can you please show me a verse where the Father wept?? in any religion or book that you can imagine. Bro...the God who weeps is a man made God who resembles humans. Try to evolve.
This is unequivocally the best sermon I have heard in my life. I need to listen to it about three more times, though, there's just so much to ponder. Easily a lifetime's worth, and beyond. Many thanks, Tim Keller. My prayers are going out to you for healing and comfort for you and your family. God bless you.
Amen. I have listened to this sermon once a week since 2007. It has been a great encouragement through 2 rounds of cancer, job loss, and countless other struggles.
“God has put ALL things under the authority of Christ and has made him head over all things for the benefit of the church.” (Ephesians 1:22 NLT)
I feel such a heavy weight off me for understanding no matter how much I feel out of control of things in my life, I am reminded that God takes whatever I do or don't do, as inadequate as I may feel, thank God that he is working ALL things out for good. Heavenly Father, help me to remember that even in long and difficult trials, like Joseph...it isn't that you've forgotten me or whatever lie satan tries to get me to believe; I know your Word is true and I can look back on all the times you have worked all things out for good despite my stumbling and doubts in the past trials you've brought me through. Jesus, I pray you will be glorified in my life, despite my weaknesses, I trust you have not abandoned me or forgotten me, which are just due to fear and forgetting that you are not finished, and I've yet to see what your doing behind the scene! Help us to remember you are working things out for good even though what we see and feel cause us to doubt and worry. This was a great message.
Thank you Pastor Tim. Your teachings live on for all us of who need instruction. Just what I needed today. Thank you Jesus for your eternal love for us.
I have always loved this message and years ago I told the story to our church (outside of DC) about how Keller would never have come to NYC except a certain professor had a huge impact upon him in seminary and that professor wouldn't have come to that seminary except the son of the POTUS was attending that seminary who was able to secure his visa from overseas and the reason that Ford was POTUS at that time was because Nixon had to resign due to watergate. Hence, if Watergate hadn't happened - Keller says he wouldn't be in NYC and these people wouldn't be hearing him preach, etc. After I told this story a guy from my church comes up to me and said that he knew the very security guard working at Watergate that night and the reason the Watergate scandal was discovered was because the fool did a "horizontal tape job." Whenever you do a tape job to hide the fact that the supposed locked door is not locked is to run tape vertically and hidden in the seam of the door. Well, this guy ran the tape horizontally and the tape bled around to the side of the door and was easily discovered. So, can someone please let Tim know that the rest of the history of his life was changed because of that knuckleheaded rookie tape job. LOL. God in His wisdom....
Tim Keller has been down the 'philosophical rabbit hole' and came out with the simplicity of the gospel. What makes him a good teacher is his exposure to different facets of thoughts of humanity and only with God's wisdom is he enabled to eloquently point you us to the absolute Love displayed on the cross by Christ. I love how he touched on six degrees of separation tie it to free will of human choices and God's wisdom in executing His own plan.
What a wonderful and incredible sermon. His sermons are simply the best. There is so much in these 45 minutes to ponder and think about how it applies to your own life.
I love that Tim Keller...loves our Lord..what a great teacher...I have learned so much from his sermons....Jesus is with him...thank you God praise your glorious name
A few decades ago there was a debate between my husband and I whether it is freewill or predestination. So, that year I dedicated my yearly ‘ read through the Bible to find out. I put a P for predestined, and a C for our choice. At the end of the year, I discovered that I had about the same amount for both. So, I told my husband that it is both, not either or. He said that was impossible, but I told him it must be possible because both are there. This sermon really explains it better. It will remain a mystery to my human mind, but both are true. I dislike it when a preacher tries to take away the mystery of our mysterious God. If He is God, then of course, He is beyond our understanding, He has to be for we are finite and He is infinite. Whatever god man serves and obeys, that will be the god he will spend eternity with. Find out as fast as you can who your god is by who you are obeying. The god or God we serve will be our reward for eternity.
Tim, thank you for this diamond of understanding of verses that I have read and heard preached on many times. Like the century plant , that flowers only every hundred years. I know what you were illustrating at one point................before God got hold of me, I could no more ignore the Holy Spirit than I could a 600 pound gorilla that had me in a hammerlock.
This is literally the best thing I have ever heard!! I am a newer believer and you answered many of the ultimate questions that I constantly overanalyze especially when I am going through trials, this was extremely helpful and has definitely brought me closer to God!! I will for sure be sharing this with others along my journey 🙏❤️
Christine, I hate to rain on your parade but you think you got the ultimate question answered by knowing that everything is "pre-destined"?? ...I just feel sorry for mankind.
It dramatically changed my perspective while I was struggling with the circumstance around me. Thank you for sharing this sermon. Amen and God is love.
Even though God is behind creation, that doesn't mean that God is behind everything that happens within creation. Since God has given us free will, we are capable of being creators in our own right; including creating suffering for ourselves and others. This particular misunderstanding, that God is causing our suffering and perhaps punishing us, is one of the most dangerous misunderstanding promoted by religious teachers; for how can we become free from suffering if we don't understand what's causing it? As long as we believe that lie, we will blame God or others, or our circumstances for our suffering and not see that we are responsible for our suffering. Our mistaken thinking, and the negative emotions and negative actions that flow from our thoughts causes our suffering. Depending on what we choose to believe, and how we choose to respond to life; we create more Love in the world or the opposite. When we choose to express the opposite of Love or cause harm, it is not God that is at fault. God gifted us with the freedom to choose and to create, and we eventually learn from our choices to be better creators; to create happiness instead of suffering, and it is suffering that teaches us this; suffering points us away from what is anti-life, anti-Love. Our own personal suffering is the so-called "punishment" we receive when we make choices that are not aligned with Love; that is the only "punishment" meted out by God. We are designed to suffer whenever we miss the mark, which is the meaning of sin. The mark, the target or goal, is Love; we suffer whenever we fall out of alignment with Love. Suffering and joy are part of the guidance system we've been given; the homing device, which when followed, will bring us back home to Love. Suffering tells us that we are believing a lie or taking a wrong direction; while joy tells us the opposite. If we don't want to suffer, then we must stop believing or doing what causes us and others suffering; and start believing and doing what brings peace, Love and joy.
I think the problem comes from the way we understand/use the word "control" and its different nuances. I believe that God works out and fixes everything for my ultimate good, but I don't believe He "controls" everything I say or do or think nor events that my decisions and choices trigger. Or else, what would be the purpose (for Him as well as for us) of giving us free will !? Too often, Christians pastors invoke "God's control over everything" to say that it was God's will for someone to get sick or to suffer an accident for whatever reason (to teach you a lesson, to punish you etc) When it was the devil attacking one of God's children. God does ezventially work out everything for the good of His childrne but that doesn't mean He "controls" everything in the sense that he engineers every event that happens. He has the ultimate say and imo that's much more comforting that thinking He controls everything.
I have sinned and fell short and no He has thankfully not left me. And I pray never to get to that place where He leaves me because that will be actual Hell! There is no return of Him that day He looks at me at tells me to depart from Him, He knows me not. And then He casts me into Hell.
Is this sermon available in print? I am involved in a prison ministry as a lay member of our local congregation. OH, how I would Love to forward these words of encouragement to the incarcerated men here in Florida.
i think that despite we can’t understand now, he has a reason. So, it’s up to us put our trust in his infinity wisdom, knowing that his will is good, perfect and acceptable. It’s worth remembering that this does not remove our responsibility. He is so good that he works in our lives despite our sin. With Israel it was like that and with us too.
I think of it like we are free flowing marbles headed towards particularly sized holes lol, bumping in to each other getting through the puzzle lol. Just like we are supposed to but with the ability to bump each other lol, I hope GOD is enjoying it lol, Praise JESUS!
If GOD does not infringe on our wheels or the wheel of anyone else involves, and what happens, how does he ensure the end result? For instance, I made a decision to invest in a house, but GOD insured that it would be a total loss because the contractor did a bad job and left it inbad condition and I couldn’t sell it. So maybe my decision wasn’t controlled by GOD but he had to make sure that something that someone decided about the results that he ordained.
Is that mean (at 15:48+++ ) that the criminals are cursed anyway because their actions and decisions have been determined by G-d? And there's no use for them to think about changing into a new leaf since they were destined as criminals anyway?
OR they were destined by God to change from their criminality (I personally know people who have rhrough Christ) and spread the gospel.. only God knows. However, Since we don't know shouldn't we just try to do our BEST (which isn't much) with the rules and commandments that God has given us? even though every single one of us will continue to fail and fall short of His glory. Jesus is the Lord and I thank Him for His grace through death and resurrection.
But if that whole chain of events (beginning with Watergate) that Pastor Keller says had to happen to get him to his church/ministry actually hadn't happened, isn't God so powerful and wise that He could have found another way to get His will for Timothy Keller done? God has plans A through ZZ if he really wants something to happen. Wickedness is never God's will and He doesn't ordain it, but He can use man's free-will evil choices in His plans.
I generally share your point but I take it further; we do not have free will, we merely imagine that we do. God controls everything, even when we act on our impulses, desires, careful plans, "good judgment," etc, including evil -- check Isaiah 45:7
Did God cause me to lose my job and way of life and rental properties and cause all this depression? Why did He ordain this horrible pain. I hate my life now. I am MISERABLE.
Hello, I would love to answer you on this. No God does not cause bad things to happen to people or cause depression. Jehovah is a loving God. Satan wants people to believe it is God's doing of these bad things so that way they can draw away from God but in reality is God wants us to draw close to him and He gave us his Son Jesus as a ransom for us all. If God wanted us to not have a great life then he would not give his son as a gift for us all and as well say in James 4:8" Draw close to God and He will draw close to you.." In Job 34:10 Says"It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, for the Almighty to do wrong!" Visit JW.org to get more information as well as I am sorry you lost your job. It stinks I know, but turn to Jehovah God and seek him! All will be good:)
I'm sorry to hear you lost your job and you feel depressed at this moment. However God loves you!! you have a purpose and he has a plan for your life. God never promises us life will be easy and that's hard to grasp but he promises us he will never leave or forsake us. circumstances can change but God's love never changes. I'f you ever need to chat please don't hesitate to message. I'm praying that whatever pain is coming against you you will be relieved from. ❤
m perez thanks. I suffer from depression and anhedonia from this. Not so much from job loss, but i lost my lifestyle. I had financial investment properties. Had to sell and move to a junky town. Bored to death. I pray and God is silent. He is doing nothing. Miserable. Life went from great to horrible.
Mr. C I sincerely empathize I have battled depression too, I know it feels like your in the midst of a deep fog and its never ending but . if you read the Bible it's account after account by prophets who were beat down, exhausted by life just like you and like we all get at some point. Elijah was driven to the brink of suicide, Solomon was dejected and became cynical, Noah was mocked, Job was angry at God and Jonah ran away from him. They didn't go through directly what you are going through but they know pain, know the deep grief of loss. God never promises us there will be no pain that would be lying and disingenuous; hey I'd love no pain and troubles too trust me. However, he promises to be there every step of the way if we let him. It will be well and I pray you have peace in spite of your circumstances! Godbless
I’m stuck in the logic of this message. Someone please explain? We humans are free to live and make choices, that are still expected and planned by God, but we are at the same time to be punished for the underlying sin? There’s no way up from underneath this destiny.
I'm with you, and every sermon, every analysis I've listened to on the topic, none of them resolve it satisfactorily enough for me. So it struck me one day, while I was arguing for predestination/Calvinism against an Arminian "Free Will Baptist" former pastor -- the best way to look at it, as I see it, is that we are just like characters in a play, a novel, or a movie -- the writer/Creator controls absolutely everything, the "choices" of the characters, and certain characters are held responsible, rewarded, punished, etc, as if they have free will -- but they only behave as if they have it, they don't actually. The story unfolds exactly how the Author intends.
So if we believe in Election and predestination.... So how do you answer someone who asks what about those that bad or evil happens to? Is that God's will?
Mr. C so he pre destined who was going to heaven and who was going to hell? Before he created the world, find one passage in the bible that backs that up, he does not control our actions there’s a little thing called FREEWILL
@Rosanna Miller, Goggle Jeremiah Camara on News Talk 1450 & 95.9 The Old Petey Greene Radio Show. You may find the answer to your question from him. Peace!
@20:53 nice explanation however forgot to mention that that's the origin of the term "Butterfly Effect" used and misused in our western culture and media. This whole sermon is interesting 🤔 in that my brother I was just discussing the subject with a few months ago sent me the link. He intended to prove his point but you actually prove mine; an "apparent contradiction" there. As a Messianic minister myself I was using an example that; for example in sports you have knowledge of every game a team will win or lose in their season. You can't control the outcome but you can bet on the winner or loser of each game. That is what God does, He doesn't control the game but does know who to pick for the all-star game. If the future was fixed then God would not have wasted His time with Abraham betting on the outcome of Sodom. God knew the City would be destroyed but there were few who might repent before it is destroyed. I've yet to meet a "Christian" that doesn't think me hieratic for preaching that according to Yoshuah the Messiah's command salvation is open even to the fallen angels. There are only 5 fallen angels mentioned by name that won't be saved (doesn't say can't) but the other 1/3 fallen angels mentioned are fair game for preaching salvation to. It's not a locked in damnation for them. However we humans tend to drive a stake through the heart first then burn at the stakes before actually speaking God's word. When Martin Luther was asked once what to do if confronted by a Vampire, he responded "Preach repentance, for a child of God fears nothing of this world."
Also note that "God so loved the world ... " This means that he loves all people, lost and saved. And AND if we cannot fall away from grace then the prodigal son is a lie. Then Hebrews 6 is a lie. "If we endure..." Once saved always saved has cost many many millions their souls. God loves us and there is nothing that can separate us from that love, BUT we can fall away. Do you not think that He loves those who are lost? Dear friend, your denomination's doctrine has deceived you. On the other hand, we cannot be saved by good works, rather, we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. We love because He first loved us.
Danny, God loves the world [because we are all made in his image], but he has special love for his [adopted] sons, I'm sure. I can't comprehend it, but we're told God loves his adopted sons (Christians) as much as he loves Jesus, which is as much as he loves himself (and his spirit). Isn't that due to the fact that we're clothed in Christ's righteousness? If so, I think he can't possibly love the "wicked" lost, who "love darkness," as much as he loves Christ.
As I am a new Christian I am not going to argue with you as you have much more bible knowledge than me. My question is how can God be the author and FINISHER of our faith if we can loose our salvation? Please don’t attack me for asking as I am interested in your answer and regularly question my salvation.
@@andrewcurtis6435 Andrew, forgive me for seeming arrogant in my reply above. The "once saved always saved" doctrine started with Calvin many years back. I asked these questions as a new Christian. If we are "called" to be His Children ... If we are the "chosen" ... etc., then how can God blame or judge those who are not called? If we have no choice ... Do you see, my friend? There are countless hours of good hearty theological debate to be had on this subject. The goal as a Christian, for me anyway, is to study the word and try to understand what the each author is trying to say. Who is he writing to? What does he mean by such and such a word or expression. What concept or idea does he want us to understand? When we take a single scripture and base a doctrine on it, we would do well to tread carefully. The author and finisher scripture in Hebrews is perhaps not about what you may think. That is a deep book written to Jewish Christians who had a comprehensive understanding of the Torah and all the old Testament books. It takes some background to grasp Hebrews fully. The crux of the matter, in my opinion, may come down to the words which are translated into "chosen" "called" in the New Testament. The Greek word has an idea of "foreknown" to it. God's omniscience. It is a hard thing to grasp. God bless you brother.
@@LilacDaisy2 Belinda, good point and well taken. It's a very deep subject and an ongoing debate even today. Subjects like this are best studied with two Christians in person with bibles in hand and notes on the side. That's a good way to study I think. God bless you dear sister in Christ.
@@dannyinbflat3980 thank you for your thoughts. For me in my personal journey it is not important to understand everything in the Bible. I stand firm but don’t understand the full details of my salvation but I confess that Jesus is the. son of God, my sins are forgiven and will continue to be forgiven and Jesus rose from the Dead. This is in no way a criticism of any of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are lead to go deeper into scriptures than I am. My Lord will guide me to discover more about Him in His perfect time.
I loved that message. Still, I think he might have split the free will argument badly. This is how I have known it. Free will, I have it & you, but also God has it. I can do somethings, but God can do all possible things. So, God can work anything I do to good? Yes. I have to bend my free will to God, as Paul does in the boat, but I can get that outcome. This preserves God as Loving since he doesn't force your will. So I act freely & so does God. Why is that different from what Tim said? He contradicted himself or we don't disagree. On a charitable hearing, what he said is what I said. I think this is true, but he prefaced it with a falsehood in his dichotomy. It is obvious that we lack that level of free will & that God has free will. Thus, to imagine the thinkers that came up with those ideas imagined it otherwise is a bit off. Of course Tim is right, we are stuck in our cultural bias. Glad to have heard this, God Bless.
In light of this sermon, how do you explain apostacy and the verses in Hebrews that talk about falling away and there no longer being a sacrifice for trampling the blood of Christ?
Also, Sarah, in addition to what Alex said, when we come to passages of Scripture that seem to contradict one another we have to interpret Scripture WITH Scripture. In order to do that we must look at the abundance of Scripture that teaches "once saved, always saved" and interpret a single passage that seems to be contradictory (like the one in Hebrews) in light of what we know to be true based on the rest of Scripture. And since we know that Scripture does not contradict itself we can know that the author of Hebrews must have a different intention than the one that on the surface SEEMS apparent.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. --Romans 11, NIV
If you play chess w a grandmaster, you could do anything n you'd lose. The individual Free will and God's sovereign will is similar. We are free to choose. Our preoccupation is earthly success. His agenda is Christlikeness which is lived out in our lived witness but not central to many of our preoccupations
When you face a crisis, turmoil, or hardship it’s not about God “getting you through it”. Unless you are being persecuted for your faith, hardship in a Christian’s life is almost always discipline because of disobedience. If it’s not persecution or discipline, you’re either so righteous that God has decided to test you or you’re such a vile enemy that God has decided to unleash his wrath. God is a loving father, and loving fathers discipline their children. When you face a hardship as a child of God, you need to quickly repent and completely get rid of whatever it is that God is disciplining you for so the discipline will stop.
Rick Gear , according to the message in this session my comment fits in exactly with God’s plans and is exactly what God wanted me to say, otherwise the comment wouldn’t exist. So why are you questioning it, especially when you agree with it??? My guess is you’re precisely the one it was meant for.
@@joebolling Then if I was supposed to write this comment 4 billion years ago when the earth was forming, then so be it. You don't have to respond! But the whole pre-destined creation is a piece of garbage. To believe that a Mighty being created universe which is 46 billion light years long (try to imagine how vast it is) and planed for everything to happen in advance is a childish way of thinking about the universe and life. So you mean to say, fall of Adam, destruction of Sodom and all the humans at the time of Noah and ALL the crimes we see every day in our life is MEANT TO HAPPEN??? So when Jesus was saying do this and don't do that or when God was sending the ten commandments, they were just reading from the manuscript and had no meanings because everyone including Jesus and God himself will do according to the manuscript of this comedy show? Sorry Joe, but I don't believe in such a God and piss on such a meaningless PLAN (whatever it is). The one created your eyes with such a complexity much more the rest of your body, is more honorable to subject all the creatures to a meaningless PUPPET SHOW. Judging from your hat, you should get out of your farm more often!
Rick Gear ... ohhhh, you’re a troll. Why didn’t you just say so. Disagreeing in predestination I get, but you’re lying if you claim you don’t believe God exists because even a blind dog knows something can’t pop into existence from absolute nothingness ... even a single speck of dust had to come from something. You’ve simply created your own God to follow, which is idolatry. And you thought you were a good person, didn’t you.
@@joebolling Nobody said anything about me being a good person and no one said God doesn't exist. This man is saying from the beginning of the world up to this minute and the future, every thing is predetermined. When did I say any thing about God doesn't exist? Looks like followers of this guy have a mental issue.
The demoniac in Luke 8 - upon careful and thoughtful consideration- given the opportunity to go back in time and change ANYTHING would change absolutely nothing less it alter the course of his life and put him on a path that would not lead to this moment with Christ! Think about that.
@@roccoparks Excuse me your honor, but according to this pastor: although you have free will, the outcome is always what God wants. (including all the humans who were destroyed in Lot's Noah's time and up to this day!
Mr Keller narrates from Paul's Romans chapter 8, saying "He who did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all." According to Paul, God arraigned the death of his own son! But from where does Paul come by such information? The Gospels clearly show that it was the Romans that put Jesus to death, without any help from God. Paul was either ill-informed or he attempted to deceive.
The Romans, and the Jewish leaders acted the way they did to fulfil God's plan for salvation. Nothing to do with Jesus' death was according to human will, although it looks that way from human perspective. The plan for the Son of God to suffer and die for salvation of people was in God's plan before God even created the world. Jesus knew that the reason for his being born in human flesh was to suffer and die by crucifixion. He even knew the exact timing and that is why the Jews were unable to kill him any other time even though they tried. Jesus was the fulfilment of the Passover lamb which was symbolic and he had to be executed by the Romans at Passover time.
God also ARRANGED the death of his only Son. God used the evil choices of the Romans, for which they will be completely responsible. See Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost.
@@pianomaly9859 If as you say, God arraigned the death of his own son then we find that God did not respect is own given law. Therefore God is not simply a hypocrite but also a sadist who used the Romans to brutally torture his son to death.
I do believe that Keller knew of God and had a good understanding of how to apply what’s in the Bible to life, but like all Calvinists he has a great misunderstanding of the gospel, and sadly commits heresy when claiming that one “can’t lose their salvation” as one speaks of salvation in those ways. 1) Salvation is only obtained after death. “But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.” - Matthew 24:13 “I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful.” - 2 Timothy 4:7 “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling” - Philippians 2:12 And so yes one can’t “lose their salvation” because once you’re saved you’re already beyond this life and your faith is approved. 2) Faith can be made shipwreck, and even in the Epistles we hear of people who fall away after finding Christ and following for some time. One look at Judas Iscariot who even had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him and performed miracles with the other apostles fell away and was damned. “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,” - 1 Timothy 4:1 Jesus spoke of the unforgiving servant who was given pardon, but because of his unforgiveness, had that pardon taken away. Scripture speaks of one’s name being blotted out of the Book of Life, so we know it’s possible. “Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” - Revelation 3:4 “And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin - and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” - Exodus 32:30 We have teaching of Jews who, after being enlightened and tasting of the heavenly gift and been partakers of the Holy Spirt can still be condemned if they fall back to trying to adhere to Mosaic Law for their salvation to be given. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.” - Hebrews 6:4-8 Calvinists like Keller unfortunately speak heresy and do the faith and people a great disservice, as I can’t imagine how many returned to their sin with the thought of not being able to “lose their salvation” in mind. I did for the years I believed in that heresy before studying Scripture for myself. I pray God had mercy on him.
@@ZachFish- Are you familiar with the parable of the unforgiving servant? In the parable of the unforgiving servant, a slave once owed a master a debt beyond what he could ever pay. The master showed him mercy and granted him pardon and told him he owed him nothing. This same servant refused to forgive the debt of another servant who owed him. Upon hearing this, the master removed his pardon and sent the slave to jail to work of his debt that was impossible to pay. Then Jesus said, “So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” - Matthew 18:35 35 So at this point you have two choices. To continue in your unbiblical theology and stubbornness, or submit to Jesus’ own teachings.
@believein1 Apparently you don't believe you're a character(like the unforgiving steward) in the story written by God, subject to His will. You think you're independent, outside of it all, operating freely apart from the glory story created by God. How neat of you to imagine yourself in such a position! It's actually pretty common, though. In fact most people seem to operate from that "free will" fallacy, even Keller to enough of an extent that he winds up equivocating all over the place. Here's a clue: Characters in stories aren't actually the ones calling the shots, even though the stories depict them doing so--the Author calls the shots, yet holds the characters accountable, etc, so that the point can be made, lesson communicated, plot can unfold, hero/villain can be identified, etc. Maybe you'll stop taking credit for God's work?
Unless, of course, you are not among the elect, in which case God despises you, overlooks you, and has no plan for you besides introducing immeasurable and eternal suffering into your existence. The Calvanist God doesn't sound like a loving one at all--or at least he only is to his in-group.
Sounds like you are just as unloving as you claim God to be. You reject God for resisting the proud and giving grace to those that humbly agree with Him because you say this distinction is unloving. I see God as wanting a real relationship with me, not one where He must pander to be accepted. Those who call out God for lack of love yet themselves reject the price that same God was willing to pay to redeem men back from death are standing on this high ground as valiid but they do not allow God the privilege of responding to prideful rejection of Himself. Deal with God truely. Perhaps start with demonstrating this real love you say God lacks, love that is willing to pursue a relationship at any cost.
Um, so where did you get the idea that you know better than the actual scripture in The Bible? Oh, right, popular culture/popular modern "Christianity" lol.
23:37 -- 24:00 This part is wrong. God doesn't overrule your will. Not even if you're deceived or making the wrong choice. Your choices do determine the future. The saints of the OT changed the generations in which they lived by faith-- acting on what God spoke to them. They CHOSE. You CHOOSE today. If the saints alive today refuse to have faith and live it out then this generation will not go the way God wants.
Does this mean that God chooses to not save everyone? Is this love? Is it responsible or holy? It's a total distortion of the gospel and of a holiness of a Holy God!! Because what Tim does is the takes God's Holiness away to emphasise his sovereignty +he makes God totally irresponsible since everyone is in this world because HE puts us here!!
You need to get acquainted with what the gospel actually is/says, and in proper context. God is NOT about saving everyone. Listen to R.C. Sproul's series, "Chosen by God."
You must not isolate Romans 8:28-39 from other scripture. Only external things are listed in Romans 8:38, these externals cannot separate us from God. But one thing can separate us from God, it is internal - SIN. Read Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:9 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” Or Galatians 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.“ Paul is speaking to SAVED CHRISTIANS, warning them not to SIN or they can lose salvation. Jesus himself (God) says in Mark 10:17-21 ”And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’ ”. Clearly we cannot commit serious unrepentant sin and go to heaven. Read the whole New Testament and don’t just cherry pick verses to suit your theology.
Keller is basically claiming that there is no sin and therefore no Hell. Nonsense!! As long as sin exists, there is always a possibility of dying in our sin, being eternally separated from Him. To those who choose to be crucified with Christ and carry their cross daily, as Christ did, we know the Father loved the Son and He loves all who are found in the Son!! If you tempt the Lord, your God then be aware of the risk you make in it. Tempting the Lord is what he is really reinforcing with the idea that nothing we do really matters if we merely give lip service that we "believe in Jesus". We can keep sinning when God says something is a sin and living as we did and everyone that sees us thinks we are sinners like them. Nonsense!!
Rosanna Miller He never said that. He is saying that God is in control of every single detail of our lives and that God will accomplish His plan for humanity no matter what we do. An example is the entire book of Jonah.
![A Christian's Happiness - Timothy Keller [Sermon]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t4r6ueJ7xVI/mqdefault.jpg)
![A Christian's Happiness – Timothy Keller [Sermon]](/img/tr.png)
![Spiritual Warfare - Timothy Keller [Sermon]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JcPlfM7w-ZE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Praying Our Fears - Timothy Keller [Sermon]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-8tdA8YMOYM/mqdefault.jpg)
![How to Change - Timothy Keller [Sermon]](/img/n.gif)
Here cus of Redeemed Zoomer
Same
Same!
Same!
Same.
same! what a blessing
Thank you, Tim. Even in death, God is still using you. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you for loving me (us).
My, oh my. What a wonderful teaching, and towards the end when Tim was referencing Spurgeon and really driving the point home... well, there aren't many I know of that can do that like he did. Such conviction and logical, reasonable persuasion. How could anyone not fall in love with God after considering what He did for us?!? Thank you Father, our Creator. Thank you Jesus, our Savior. Thank you Holy Spirit, our Indweller. All glory and honor and praise be to our God forever and ever! Amen.
Tim, I've been searching for this message my whole life. I heard about you from my cousin Jules who used to attend your church in NYC years ago. Jules died on Dec 25, 2009 at the age of 50. Before he died, he led me to God and, through your sermons, he's still doing it. Please pardon the corn but I write this with tears running down my face, and I'm a Jersey guy. Thank You
torqueguy1 God is wonderful
torqueguy1 bless you bro..your a real man dude.
torqueguy1, there is no shame in tears. Jesus wept, God the Father weeps
Dude, you wrote this comment 3 years ago and I don't know if you still believe in what you said back then or not. But unlike all these positive comments I deeply feel sorry for you that after a life time searching, you cry from joy to find out that everything is a puppet show??? Wow...
@@michaelbrickley2443 Sir, can you please show me a verse where the Father wept?? in any religion or book that you can imagine. Bro...the God who weeps is a man made God who resembles humans. Try to evolve.
So powerful! Thankful for the life of Tim Keller connecting God’s word in such an interesting way.
Thank you Watergate for this message!
haha Yes thank you Watergate.
Honestly, when I read your comment as I began the sermon, I was confused. As I got through the sermon, I laughed.
26 minutes into this that comment makes sense.
Chuck B CV
Lol! Watergate made sense now! 😂 Yes thank you! 😂
This is unequivocally the best sermon I have heard in my life. I need to listen to it about three more times, though, there's just so much to ponder. Easily a lifetime's worth, and beyond. Many thanks, Tim Keller. My prayers are going out to you for healing and comfort for you and your family. God bless you.
Fourth time listening to this sermon and it gets better each time.
Amen. I have listened to this sermon once a week since 2007. It has been a great encouragement through 2 rounds of cancer, job loss, and countless other struggles.
I’ve read the article based on this in his Romans leader guide study. It’s the most succinct explanation I’ve ever read.
This sermon has single-handedly convinced me of Calvinism.
Currently a Reformed Baptist but looking to start attending a Presbyterian church.
I'm still not a Calvinist, but Tim Keller's sermons I'd gladly recommend to everyone. May he rest in Paradise.
I needed this for my refresh in 2024 Praise God for His word!!!
“God has put ALL things under the authority of Christ and has made him head over all things for the benefit of the church.” (Ephesians 1:22 NLT)
I love Tim Keller.
Me to but I love Jesus more
Me too
]
@@davidwright1115 p0
Me too...and JESUS IS LORD!
"He loves you, because He loves you."
If uncertainty about God has been present for you, listen to Dr. Keller’s sermon.
Thank you Dr. Keller.
I feel such a heavy weight off me for understanding no matter how much I feel out of control of things in my life, I am reminded that God takes whatever I do or don't do, as inadequate as I may feel, thank God that he is working ALL things out for good. Heavenly Father, help me to remember that even in long and difficult trials, like Joseph...it isn't that you've forgotten me or whatever lie satan tries to get me to believe; I know your Word is true and I can look back on all the times you have worked all things out for good despite my stumbling and doubts in the past trials you've brought me through. Jesus, I pray you will be glorified in my life, despite my weaknesses, I trust you have not abandoned me or forgotten me, which are just due to fear and forgetting that you are not finished, and I've yet to see what your doing behind the scene! Help us to remember you are working things out for good even though what we see and feel cause us to doubt and worry. This was a great message.
+Dina Eddy I have been going the same thing recently. I agree this man makes so much sense.
Keller is as soul-winning as a passionate evangelist, but not preachy at all. Anyone can listen to this without feeling talked down to. Love it.
And Tim would never call it soul-winning, because God always had you
What a thrill to hear (again) the sweetness of the message of salvation. Thanks Tim for posting this. Warmest regards, Frank
Thank you Pastor Tim. Your teachings live on for all us of who need instruction. Just what I needed today. Thank you Jesus for your eternal love for us.
I have always loved this message and years ago I told the story to our church (outside of DC) about how Keller would never have come to NYC except a certain professor had a huge impact upon him in seminary and that professor wouldn't have come to that seminary except the son of the POTUS was attending that seminary who was able to secure his visa from overseas and the reason that Ford was POTUS at that time was because Nixon had to resign due to watergate. Hence, if Watergate hadn't happened - Keller says he wouldn't be in NYC and these people wouldn't be hearing him preach, etc. After I told this story a guy from my church comes up to me and said that he knew the very security guard working at Watergate that night and the reason the Watergate scandal was discovered was because the fool did a "horizontal tape job." Whenever you do a tape job to hide the fact that the supposed locked door is not locked is to run tape vertically and hidden in the seam of the door. Well, this guy ran the tape horizontally and the tape bled around to the side of the door and was easily discovered. So, can someone please let Tim know that the rest of the history of his life was changed because of that knuckleheaded rookie tape job. LOL. God in His wisdom....
I needed to hear this so badly.
Hannah Rannah d
I listened to this in tears.
Thanks.
One of my favorite sermons!!!🙌🏻
Tim Keller has been down the 'philosophical rabbit hole' and came out with the simplicity of the gospel. What makes him a good teacher is his exposure to different facets of thoughts of humanity and only with God's wisdom is he enabled to eloquently point you us to the absolute Love displayed on the cross by Christ. I love how he touched on six degrees of separation tie it to free will of human choices and God's wisdom in executing His own plan.
Well said John!
What a wonderful and incredible sermon. His sermons are simply the best. There is so much in these 45 minutes to ponder and think about how it applies to your own life.
I love how this woman reads scriptures. Who are these women reading the scriptures usually?
Kept coming back to this message. Awesome message. The love of Christ was so reassuring
I love that Tim Keller...loves our Lord..what a great teacher...I have learned so much from his sermons....Jesus is with him...thank you God praise your glorious name
A few decades ago there was a debate between my husband and I whether it is freewill or predestination. So, that year I dedicated my yearly ‘ read through the Bible to find out. I put a P for predestined, and a C for our choice. At the end of the year, I discovered that I had about the same amount for both. So, I told my husband that it is both, not either or. He said that was impossible, but I told him it must be possible because both are there. This sermon really explains it better. It will remain a mystery to my human mind, but both are true. I dislike it when a preacher tries to take away the mystery of our mysterious God. If He is God, then of course, He is beyond our understanding, He has to be for we are finite and He is infinite. Whatever god man serves and obeys, that will be the god he will spend eternity with. Find out as fast as you can who your god is by who you are obeying. The god or God we serve will be our reward for eternity.
I always come back for this message. It seems more relevant as time goes on.
Thank,you Tim for the pure and simple,teaching of God's word.
Now all make sense, I was struggling with myself. This sermon open my mind.
The ending brought me tears man. I love this
Thank You, Lord, for Tim Keller’s life 🙌🏼 listening to it a second time ❤
Thank you Timothy and everyone. Happy Christmas.
Like the light: not either particule or wave, but both! Amazing God, there is none like Him!
Tim, thank you for this diamond of understanding of verses that I have read and heard preached on many times. Like the century plant , that flowers only every hundred years. I know what you were illustrating at one point................before God got hold of me, I could no more ignore the Holy Spirit than I could a 600 pound gorilla that had me in a hammerlock.
How Incredible God’s love is … He loves me….it’s awesome to know this. Thank You Heavenly Father, Jesus & Holy Spirit. I am in awe of You! ✝️ 🙏 ❤️
This message is so comforting and liberating. Needed to hear this! Wow this so so powerful. Praise Jesus. I'm sharing it to others!
Excellent explanation. More helpful than any other pastor's explanation of the sovereignty of God that I have heard.
Thank you so much, it used to be a burdening topic for me
God Bless you for this message 🙏
This is literally the best thing I have ever heard!! I am a newer believer and you answered many of the ultimate questions that I constantly overanalyze especially when I am going through trials, this was extremely helpful and has definitely brought me closer to God!! I will for sure be sharing this with others along my journey 🙏❤️
Christine, I hate to rain on your parade but you think you got the ultimate question answered by knowing that everything is "pre-destined"?? ...I just feel sorry for mankind.
@@overseastaxcredit
Well, to be fair, that is a pretty big question and she is a newer believer.
It dramatically changed my perspective while I was struggling with the circumstance around me. Thank you for sharing this sermon. Amen and God is love.
>> "I love you because you're mine."
Does God love EVEYONE?
Great message, listened to it many times 😊
Many blessings in return thank you for your delivery of various truths and doubts. Narrative is responsible for interpretation of biblical studies
Amén y amén 🙏🏻
more than interesting...it's awesome!!
Excellent word
Even though God is behind creation, that doesn't mean that God is behind everything that happens within creation.
Since God has given us free will, we are capable of being creators in our own right; including creating suffering for ourselves and others.
This particular misunderstanding, that God is causing our suffering and perhaps punishing us, is one of the most dangerous misunderstanding promoted by religious teachers; for how can we become free from suffering if we don't understand what's causing it?
As long as we believe that lie, we will blame God or others, or our circumstances for our suffering and not see that we are responsible for our suffering.
Our mistaken thinking, and the negative emotions and negative actions that flow from our thoughts causes our suffering.
Depending on what we choose to believe, and how we choose to respond to life; we create more Love in the world or the opposite.
When we choose to express the opposite of Love or cause harm, it is not God that is at fault.
God gifted us with the freedom to choose and to create, and we eventually learn from our choices to be better creators; to create happiness instead of suffering, and it is suffering that teaches us this; suffering points us away from what is anti-life, anti-Love.
Our own personal suffering is the so-called "punishment" we receive when we make choices that are not aligned with Love; that is the only "punishment" meted out by God.
We are designed to suffer whenever we miss the mark, which is the meaning of sin. The mark, the target or goal, is Love; we suffer whenever we fall out of alignment with Love.
Suffering and joy are part of the guidance system we've been given; the homing device, which when followed, will bring us back home to Love.
Suffering tells us that we are believing a lie or taking a wrong direction; while joy tells us the opposite.
If we don't want to suffer, then we must stop believing or doing what causes us and others suffering; and start believing and doing what brings peace, Love and joy.
This was so helpful, and your message and your books have made such a powerful impact in my journey towards God
So powerful. I needed to hear this.
Amen Pastor Keller!
This is ohne of the most powerful presches i‘ve ever heard! Trank you for uploading!
I think the problem comes from the way we understand/use the word "control" and its different nuances. I believe that God works out and fixes everything for my ultimate good, but I don't believe He "controls" everything I say or do or think nor events that my decisions and choices trigger. Or else, what would be the purpose (for Him as well as for us) of giving us free will !? Too often, Christians pastors invoke "God's control over everything" to say that it was God's will for someone to get sick or to suffer an accident for whatever reason (to teach you a lesson, to punish you etc) When it was the devil attacking one of God's children. God does ezventially work out everything for the good of His childrne but that doesn't mean He "controls" everything in the sense that he engineers every event that happens. He has the ultimate say and imo that's much more comforting that thinking He controls everything.
Listening to this sermon explained it to me.
11:39 no, it bothered the Catholic Church for thousands of years too. Not just us
Amen.
I have sinned and fell short and no He has thankfully not left me. And I pray never to get to that place where He leaves me because that will be actual Hell! There is no return of Him that day He looks at me at tells me to depart from Him, He knows me not. And then He casts me into Hell.
"If somebody spends a billion dollars on your present, you think he's going to skimp on the wrapping paper?"
Wow.
Is this sermon available in print? I am involved in a prison ministry as a lay member of our local congregation. OH, how I would Love to forward these words of encouragement to the incarcerated men here in Florida.
Fear God
"Watergate happened for you." - Tim Keller, 2007
Ok, but WHY would God make me choose something that led to loss, depression and regret and even drug addiction!!???
God doesn’t make you choose things we make choices on our free will.
@@henreoppelt5688 not according to this video. Even if we freely choose something, it was because God ordain that before the foundations of the world.
i think that despite we can’t understand now, he has a reason. So, it’s up to us put our trust in his infinity wisdom, knowing that his will is good, perfect and acceptable. It’s worth remembering that this does not remove our responsibility. He is so good that he works in our lives despite our sin. With Israel it was like that and with us too.
Do preachers answer their own questions? Yes, but this is good teaching.
I think of it like we are free flowing marbles headed towards particularly sized holes lol, bumping in to each other getting through the puzzle lol. Just like we are supposed to but with the ability to bump each other lol, I hope GOD is enjoying it lol, Praise JESUS!
If GOD does not infringe on our wheels or the wheel of anyone else involves, and what happens, how does he ensure the end result? For instance, I made a decision to invest in a house, but GOD insured that it would be a total loss because the contractor did a bad job and left it inbad condition and I couldn’t sell it. So maybe my decision wasn’t controlled by GOD but he had to make sure that something that someone decided about the results that he ordained.
Is that mean (at 15:48+++ ) that the criminals are cursed anyway because their actions and decisions have been determined by G-d? And there's no use for them to think about changing into a new leaf since they were destined as criminals anyway?
OR they were destined by God to change from their criminality (I personally know people who have rhrough Christ) and spread the gospel.. only God knows. However, Since we don't know shouldn't we just try to do our BEST (which isn't much) with the rules and commandments that God has given us? even though every single one of us will continue to fail and fall short of His glory. Jesus is the Lord and I thank Him for His grace through death and resurrection.
Alakdan sarzce
Thanks
But if that whole chain of events (beginning with Watergate) that Pastor Keller says had to happen to get him to his church/ministry actually hadn't happened, isn't God so powerful and wise that He could have found another way to get His will for Timothy Keller done? God has plans A through ZZ if he really wants something to happen. Wickedness is never God's will and He doesn't ordain it, but He can use man's free-will evil choices in His plans.
I generally share your point but I take it further; we do not have free will, we merely imagine that we do. God controls everything, even when we act on our impulses, desires, careful plans, "good judgment," etc, including evil -- check Isaiah 45:7
❤🙏🏼
Is it just me or does anyone else think Tim Keller sounds somewhat like the guy from Jurassic Park, Jeff Goldblum??
I won't be able to unhear this now lol.
My husband thinks the same thing
Can you talk about healing
Did God cause me to lose my job and way of life and rental properties and cause all this depression? Why did He ordain this horrible pain. I hate my life now. I am MISERABLE.
Hello, I would love to answer you on this. No God does not cause bad things to happen to people or cause depression. Jehovah is a loving God. Satan wants people to believe it is God's doing of these bad things so that way they can draw away from God but in reality is God wants us to draw close to him and He gave us his Son Jesus as a ransom for us all. If God wanted us to not have a great life then he would not give his son as a gift for us all and as well say in James 4:8" Draw close to God and He will draw close to you.." In Job 34:10 Says"It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, for the Almighty to do wrong!" Visit JW.org to get more information as well as I am sorry you lost your job. It stinks I know, but turn to Jehovah God and seek him! All will be good:)
I'm sorry to hear you lost your job and you feel depressed at this moment. However God loves you!! you have a purpose and he has a plan for your life. God never promises us life will be easy and that's hard to grasp but he promises us he will never leave or forsake us. circumstances can change but God's love never changes. I'f you ever need to chat please don't hesitate to message. I'm praying that whatever pain is coming against you you will be relieved from. ❤
m perez thanks. I suffer from depression and anhedonia from this. Not so much from job loss, but i lost my lifestyle. I had financial investment properties. Had to sell and move to a junky town. Bored to death. I pray and God is silent. He is doing nothing. Miserable. Life went from great to horrible.
Mr. C I sincerely empathize I have battled depression too, I know it feels like your in the midst of a deep fog and its never ending but . if you read the Bible it's account after account by prophets who were beat down, exhausted by life just like you and like we all get at some point.
Elijah was driven to the brink of suicide, Solomon was dejected and became cynical, Noah was mocked, Job was angry at God and Jonah ran away from him. They didn't go through directly what you are going through but they know pain, know the deep grief of loss. God never promises us there will be no pain that would be lying and disingenuous; hey I'd love no pain and troubles too trust me.
However, he promises to be there every step of the way if we let him. It will be well and I pray you have peace in spite of your circumstances! Godbless
@@shylabailey975 God controls Satan and satan can only work on God's leash
I’m stuck in the logic of this message. Someone please explain? We humans are free to live and make choices, that are still expected and planned by God, but we are at the same time to be punished for the underlying sin? There’s no way up from underneath this destiny.
It is pointing of understanding the limit of human mind that we only know what reveals us from who He is.
I'm with you, and every sermon, every analysis I've listened to on the topic, none of them resolve it satisfactorily enough for me. So it struck me one day, while I was arguing for predestination/Calvinism against an Arminian "Free Will Baptist" former pastor -- the best way to look at it, as I see it, is that we are just like characters in a play, a novel, or a movie -- the writer/Creator controls absolutely everything, the "choices" of the characters, and certain characters are held responsible, rewarded, punished, etc, as if they have free will -- but they only behave as if they have it, they don't actually. The story unfolds exactly how the Author intends.
So if we believe in Election and predestination....
So how do you answer someone who asks what about those that bad or evil happens to? Is that God's will?
Rosanna Miller yes. God ordained everything. He is in total control.
Mr. C so he pre destined who was going to heaven and who was going to hell? Before he created the world, find one passage in the bible that backs that up, he does not control our actions there’s a little thing called FREEWILL
roccoparks Exodus 9:12
roccoparks Eph 1:4-6 John 6:37 John 15:16 John 1:13
@Rosanna Miller, Goggle Jeremiah Camara on News Talk 1450 & 95.9 The Old Petey Greene Radio Show. You may find the answer to your question from him.
Peace!
31:51
@20:53 nice explanation however forgot to mention that that's the origin of the term "Butterfly Effect" used and misused in our western culture and media.
This whole sermon is interesting 🤔 in that my brother I was just discussing the subject with a few months ago sent me the link. He intended to prove his point but you actually prove mine; an "apparent contradiction" there.
As a Messianic minister myself I was using an example that; for example in sports you have knowledge of every game a team will win or lose in their season. You can't control the outcome but you can bet on the winner or loser of each game. That is what God does, He doesn't control the game but does know who to pick for the all-star game. If the future was fixed then God would not have wasted His time with Abraham betting on the outcome of Sodom. God knew the City would be destroyed but there were few who might repent before it is destroyed. I've yet to meet a "Christian" that doesn't think me hieratic for preaching that according to Yoshuah the Messiah's command salvation is open even to the fallen angels. There are only 5 fallen angels mentioned by name that won't be saved (doesn't say can't) but the other 1/3 fallen angels mentioned are fair game for preaching salvation to. It's not a locked in damnation for them. However we humans tend to drive a stake through the heart first then burn at the stakes before actually speaking God's word. When Martin Luther was asked once what to do if confronted by a Vampire, he responded "Preach repentance, for a child of God fears nothing of this world."
Also note that "God so loved the world ... " This means that he loves all people, lost and saved. And AND if we cannot fall away from grace then the prodigal son is a lie. Then Hebrews 6 is a lie. "If we endure..." Once saved always saved has cost many many millions their souls. God loves us and there is nothing that can separate us from that love, BUT we can fall away. Do you not think that He loves those who are lost? Dear friend, your denomination's doctrine has deceived you. On the other hand, we cannot be saved by good works, rather, we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. We love because He first loved us.
Danny, God loves the world [because we are all made in his image], but he has special love for his [adopted] sons, I'm sure. I can't comprehend it, but we're told God loves his adopted sons (Christians) as much as he loves Jesus, which is as much as he loves himself (and his spirit). Isn't that due to the fact that we're clothed in Christ's righteousness? If so, I think he can't possibly love the "wicked" lost, who "love darkness," as much as he loves Christ.
As I am a new Christian I am not going to argue with you as you have much more bible knowledge than me. My question is how can God be the author and FINISHER of our faith if we can loose our salvation?
Please don’t attack me for asking as I am interested in your answer and regularly question my salvation.
@@andrewcurtis6435 Andrew, forgive me for seeming arrogant in my reply above. The "once saved always saved" doctrine started with Calvin many years back. I asked these questions as a new Christian. If we are "called" to be His Children ... If we are the "chosen" ... etc., then how can God blame or judge those who are not called? If we have no choice ... Do you see, my friend? There are countless hours of good hearty theological debate to be had on this subject.
The goal as a Christian, for me anyway, is to study the word and try to understand what the each author is trying to say. Who is he writing to? What does he mean by such and such a word or expression. What concept or idea does he want us to understand? When we take a single scripture and base a doctrine on it, we would do well to tread carefully.
The author and finisher scripture in Hebrews is perhaps not about what you may think. That is a deep book written to Jewish Christians who had a comprehensive understanding of the Torah and all the old Testament books. It takes some background to grasp Hebrews fully.
The crux of the matter, in my opinion, may come down to the words which are translated into "chosen" "called" in the New Testament. The Greek word has an idea of "foreknown" to it. God's omniscience.
It is a hard thing to grasp. God bless you brother.
@@LilacDaisy2 Belinda, good point and well taken. It's a very deep subject and an ongoing debate even today. Subjects like this are best studied with two Christians in person with bibles in hand and notes on the side. That's a good way to study I think. God bless you dear sister in Christ.
@@dannyinbflat3980 thank you for your thoughts. For me in my personal journey it is not important to understand everything in the Bible. I stand firm but don’t understand the full details of my salvation but I confess that Jesus is the. son of God, my sins are forgiven and will continue to be forgiven and Jesus rose from the Dead. This is in no way a criticism of any of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are lead to go deeper into scriptures than I am. My Lord will guide me to discover more about Him in His perfect time.
I loved that message. Still, I think he might have split the free will argument badly. This is how I have known it.
Free will, I have it & you, but also God has it. I can do somethings, but God can do all possible things. So, God can work anything I do to good? Yes. I have to bend my free will to God, as Paul does in the boat, but I can get that outcome. This preserves God as Loving since he doesn't force your will. So I act freely & so does God.
Why is that different from what Tim said? He contradicted himself or we don't disagree. On a charitable hearing, what he said is what I said. I think this is true, but he prefaced it with a falsehood in his dichotomy. It is obvious that we lack that level of free will & that God has free will. Thus, to imagine the thinkers that came up with those ideas imagined it otherwise is a bit off. Of course Tim is right, we are stuck in our cultural bias.
Glad to have heard this, God Bless.
In light of this sermon, how do you explain apostacy and the verses in Hebrews that talk about falling away and there no longer being a sacrifice for trampling the blood of Christ?
Also, Sarah, in addition to what Alex said, when we come to passages of Scripture that seem to contradict one another we have to interpret Scripture WITH Scripture. In order to do that we must look at the abundance of Scripture that teaches "once saved, always saved" and interpret a single passage that seems to be contradictory (like the one in Hebrews) in light of what we know to be true based on the rest of Scripture. And since we know that Scripture does not contradict itself we can know that the author of Hebrews must have a different intention than the one that on the surface SEEMS apparent.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do
not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you
do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports
you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. --Romans 11, NIV
If you play chess w a grandmaster, you could do anything n you'd lose. The individual Free will and God's sovereign will is similar.
We are free to choose.
Our preoccupation is earthly success. His agenda is Christlikeness which is lived out in our lived witness but not central to many of our preoccupations
its kinda funny how this has the exact same amount of views as RZ has followers rn lol 412k
and im not saying its a bad thing
Water gate happened for me and i don't even know what that is lol
And then there's Free Grace theology, which makes WAY more sense than this.
When you face a crisis, turmoil, or hardship it’s not about God “getting you through it”. Unless you are being persecuted for your faith, hardship in a Christian’s life is almost always discipline because of disobedience. If it’s not persecution or discipline, you’re either so righteous that God has decided to test you or you’re such a vile enemy that God has decided to unleash his wrath. God is a loving father, and loving fathers discipline their children. When you face a hardship as a child of God, you need to quickly repent and completely get rid of whatever it is that God is disciplining you for so the discipline will stop.
Joe, I agree with what you say but what is the relation of your comment to this session???
Rick Gear , according to the message in this session my comment fits in exactly with God’s plans and is exactly what God wanted me to say, otherwise the comment wouldn’t exist. So why are you questioning it, especially when you agree with it??? My guess is you’re precisely the one it was meant for.
@@joebolling Then if I was supposed to write this comment 4 billion years ago when the earth was forming, then so be it. You don't have to respond! But the whole pre-destined creation is a piece of garbage. To believe that a Mighty being created universe which is 46 billion light years long (try to imagine how vast it is) and planed for everything to happen in advance is a childish way of thinking about the universe and life. So you mean to say, fall of Adam, destruction of Sodom and all the humans at the time of Noah and ALL the crimes we see every day in our life is MEANT TO HAPPEN??? So when Jesus was saying do this and don't do that or when God was sending the ten commandments, they were just reading from the manuscript and had no meanings because everyone including Jesus and God himself will do according to the manuscript of this comedy show? Sorry Joe, but I don't believe in such a God and piss on such a meaningless PLAN (whatever it is). The one created your eyes with such a complexity much more the rest of your body, is more honorable to subject all the creatures to a meaningless PUPPET SHOW. Judging from your hat, you should get out of your farm more often!
Rick Gear ... ohhhh, you’re a troll. Why didn’t you just say so. Disagreeing in predestination I get, but you’re lying if you claim you don’t believe God exists because even a blind dog knows something can’t pop into existence from absolute nothingness ... even a single speck of dust had to come from something. You’ve simply created your own God to follow, which is idolatry. And you thought you were a good person, didn’t you.
@@joebolling Nobody said anything about me being a good person and no one said God doesn't exist. This man is saying from the beginning of the world up to this minute and the future, every thing is predetermined. When did I say any thing about God doesn't exist? Looks like followers of this guy have a mental issue.
The demoniac in Luke 8 - upon careful and thoughtful consideration- given the opportunity to go back in time and change ANYTHING would change absolutely nothing less it alter the course of his life and put him on a path that would not lead to this moment with Christ! Think about that.
💞💕❣
does God predestine people to hell?
Ella Park absolutely not that is just Calvinism which is completely unbiblical
@@roccoparks Excuse me your honor, but according to this pastor: although you have free will, the outcome is always what God wants. (including all the humans who were destroyed in Lot's Noah's time and up to this day!
No. When people reject God, they reject salvation. He opens the door. Not all choose to walk through.
@@overseastaxcredit yes. But, Tim Keller is not God.
Mr Keller narrates from Paul's Romans chapter 8, saying "He who did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all." According to Paul, God arraigned the death of his own son!
But from where does Paul come by such information? The Gospels clearly show that it was the Romans that put Jesus to death, without any help from God. Paul was either ill-informed or he attempted to deceive.
The Romans, and the Jewish leaders acted the way they did to fulfil God's plan for salvation. Nothing to do with Jesus' death was according to human will, although it looks that way from human perspective. The plan for the Son of God to suffer and die for salvation of people was in God's plan before God even created the world. Jesus knew that the reason for his being born in human flesh was to suffer and die by crucifixion. He even knew the exact timing and that is why the Jews were unable to kill him any other time even though they tried. Jesus was the fulfilment of the Passover lamb which was symbolic and he had to be executed by the Romans at Passover time.
God also ARRANGED the death of his only Son. God used the evil choices of the Romans, for which they will be completely responsible. See Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost.
@@pianomaly9859
If as you say, God arraigned the death of his own son then we find that God did not respect is own given law. Therefore God is not simply a hypocrite but also a sadist who used the Romans to brutally torture his son to death.
I do believe that Keller knew of God and had a good understanding of how to apply what’s in the Bible to life, but like all Calvinists he has a great misunderstanding of the gospel, and sadly commits heresy when claiming that one “can’t lose their salvation” as one speaks of salvation in those ways.
1) Salvation is only obtained after death. “But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.” - Matthew 24:13
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful.” - 2 Timothy 4:7
“Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling” - Philippians 2:12
And so yes one can’t “lose their salvation” because once you’re saved you’re already beyond this life and your faith is approved.
2) Faith can be made shipwreck, and even in the Epistles we hear of people who fall away after finding Christ and following for some time. One look at Judas Iscariot who even had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him and performed miracles with the other apostles fell away and was damned.
“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,” - 1 Timothy 4:1
Jesus spoke of the unforgiving servant who was given pardon, but because of his unforgiveness, had that pardon taken away.
Scripture speaks of one’s name being blotted out of the Book of Life, so we know it’s possible.
“Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” - Revelation 3:4
“And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin - and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” - Exodus 32:30
We have teaching of Jews who, after being enlightened and tasting of the heavenly gift and been partakers of the Holy Spirt can still be condemned if they fall back to trying to adhere to Mosaic Law for their salvation to be given.
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.” - Hebrews 6:4-8
Calvinists like Keller unfortunately speak heresy and do the faith and people a great disservice, as I can’t imagine how many returned to their sin with the thought of not being able to “lose their salvation” in mind. I did for the years I believed in that heresy before studying Scripture for myself.
I pray God had mercy on him.
If eternal security isn’t true (which it is), it’s still true.
@@ZachFish- Are you familiar with the parable of the unforgiving servant?
In the parable of the unforgiving servant, a slave once owed a master a debt beyond what he could ever pay. The master showed him mercy and granted him pardon and told him he owed him nothing. This same servant refused to forgive the debt of another servant who owed him. Upon hearing this, the master removed his pardon and sent the slave to jail to work of his debt that was impossible to pay.
Then Jesus said, “So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” - Matthew 18:35 35
So at this point you have two choices. To continue in your unbiblical theology and stubbornness, or submit to Jesus’ own teachings.
@believein1 Apparently you don't believe you're a character(like the unforgiving steward) in the story written by God, subject to His will. You think you're independent, outside of it all, operating freely apart from the glory story created by God. How neat of you to imagine yourself in such a position! It's actually pretty common, though. In fact most people seem to operate from that "free will" fallacy, even Keller to enough of an extent that he winds up equivocating all over the place. Here's a clue: Characters in stories aren't actually the ones calling the shots, even though the stories depict them doing so--the Author calls the shots, yet holds the characters accountable, etc, so that the point can be made, lesson communicated, plot can unfold, hero/villain can be identified, etc. Maybe you'll stop taking credit for God's work?
Unless, of course, you are not among the elect, in which case God despises you, overlooks you, and has no plan for you besides introducing immeasurable and eternal suffering into your existence. The Calvanist God doesn't sound like a loving one at all--or at least he only is to his in-group.
Sounds like you are just as unloving as you claim God to be. You reject God for resisting the proud and giving grace to those that humbly agree with Him because you say this distinction is unloving. I see God as wanting a real relationship with me, not one where He must pander to be accepted. Those who call out God for lack of love yet themselves reject the price that same God was willing to pay to redeem men back from death are standing on this high ground as valiid but they do not allow God the privilege of responding to prideful rejection of Himself. Deal with God truely. Perhaps start with demonstrating this real love you say God lacks, love that is willing to pursue a relationship at any cost.
Um, so where did you get the idea that you know better than the actual scripture in The Bible? Oh, right, popular culture/popular modern "Christianity" lol.
the zoomer sent me here :D
23:37 -- 24:00 This part is wrong. God doesn't overrule your will. Not even if you're deceived or making the wrong choice. Your choices do determine the future. The saints of the OT changed the generations in which they lived by faith-- acting on what God spoke to them. They CHOSE. You CHOOSE today. If the saints alive today refuse to have faith and live it out then this generation will not go the way God wants.
Does this mean that God chooses to not save everyone? Is this love? Is it responsible or holy? It's a total distortion of the gospel and of a holiness of a Holy God!! Because what Tim does is the takes God's Holiness away to emphasise his sovereignty +he makes God totally irresponsible since everyone is in this world because HE puts us here!!
You need to get acquainted with what the gospel actually is/says, and in proper context. God is NOT about saving everyone. Listen to R.C. Sproul's series, "Chosen by God."
not God but it's the SUN that controlls everything on Earth
God controls The Universe.
You must not isolate Romans 8:28-39 from other scripture. Only external things are listed in Romans 8:38, these externals cannot separate us from God. But one thing can separate us from God, it is internal - SIN.
Read Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:9 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Or Galatians 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.“
Paul is speaking to SAVED CHRISTIANS, warning them not to SIN or they can lose salvation.
Jesus himself (God) says in Mark 10:17-21 ”And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’ ”. Clearly we cannot commit serious unrepentant sin and go to heaven.
Read the whole New Testament and don’t just cherry pick verses to suit your theology.
Keller is basically claiming that there is no sin and therefore no Hell. Nonsense!! As long as sin exists, there is always a possibility of dying in our sin, being eternally separated from Him.
To those who choose to be crucified with Christ and carry their cross daily, as Christ did, we know the Father loved the Son and He loves all who are found in the Son!!
If you tempt the Lord, your God then be aware of the risk you make in it. Tempting the Lord is what he is really reinforcing with the idea that nothing we do really matters if we merely give lip service that we "believe in Jesus". We can keep sinning when God says something is a sin and living as we did and everyone that sees us thinks we are sinners like them.
Nonsense!!
Basically? No he's not saying that you misunderstood him.
Rosanna Miller He never said that. He is saying that God is in control of every single detail of our lives and that God will accomplish His plan for humanity no matter what we do. An example is the entire book of Jonah.
He didn't say anything of the sort. You're purposely missing the point
Horrible logic with a lot of mental gymnastics
indeed, What denomination are you in?
@@DrGero15 Catholicism, which are u in?
@@unknownwhale1534 Anglicanism.
@@DrGero15 cool, I’m glad we can agree on this
@@unknownwhale1534 Indeed! What party of the Roman Catholic church are you in? Traditional, Liberal, Sedevacantism, Standard?