If they figured a way to turn the pins in to some kind of knob, think like a removable potentiometer, to control the individual patch volume, this would be a classic piece of gear in a heartbeat. I know matrix voltage mixers exist, but the pins are a REALLY good visual way to keep track of your patch. Wonderful run down!
I’ve done just that with trimpots. The problem is that once you remove the pin, there’s no indication of where the pot is set unless it’s exposed (or the top is transparent) but it’s doable
The Pladask Matrise (4x4 matrix) is a viable option, but hard to acquire in 2021. It may only be 4x4, but the upside is that it has dedicated volume pots for every send/receive and polarity switches. This seems neat, and 8x8 is amazing, but, if you're creating loops and changing things up on the fly, volume knobs per output are damn-near essential.
I have a Boredbrain Patchulator 8000 8 Channel Mini Pedalboard Patchbay that I use with my modular system. Probably more suited to experimental feedback style of production. This however is really worth looking at particularly as I have it set up with an optional Ultrapatch patch bay from Behringer for even more dizzying permutations that can lead you to unpredictable but interesting creative results.
VFE Klein Bottle and Pladask Elektrisk Matrise have similar products to this, but 8x8 beats in terms of connections both, the advantage of the first ones is that you have control over volume and mix between the channels.
What an awesome product. Matrix routing is so damn cool; once you start using it, you'll never go back to less flexible routing scenarios. I've seen some complaints here about the price. I suspect that the complexity of the electronics to make matrix routing possible is why it costs as much as it does.
I mounted an 8x8 matrix board (purchased from Maplin) in a guitarist's fx rack which had 8 x mounted Boss pedals so the pedal routing could be re ordered using pins - way back in 1986!
@@Blurberrybrown Maplin and Tandy (Radio Shack USA) seem to have sadly gone under in the UK but I'm guessing these things must still be available www.google.com/search?safe=strict&client=ms-android-tmobile-gb&sxsrf=ALeKk03XLE3K2aVNonrX2cvYhFcEoR3p9Q%3A1598289222163&ei=RvVDX8a9CbKd1fAPiLWmqA4&q=matrix+pin+board&oq=matrix+pin+board&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBggAEAgQHjoKCCMQsAMQJxCLAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoECB4QClCLeliyiwFgnbkBaABwAHgAgAGLAogBxQuSAQUyLjkuMZgBAKABAbgBAsABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=Ah_0L-9BF8IPsM I found a few results on Google anyway, though not exactly what I used back then. Good luck
Awesome stuff! notable mention for the BoredBrain Patchculator 8000 which is a similar vibe flat patchbay - but the pin idea allowing blending is great!
As the pros and cons to me often is the most exciting section, I started to think about this album I haven't listened to in a long time: is the first solo album by Roger Waters; it was released in 1984, the year before Waters announced his departure from Pink Floyd. The album was certified gold in the United States by the Recording Industry Association of America in April 1995
Very cool, but quite pricey for what it is. The Boredbrain Patchulator 8000 is a much more affordable solution, and you can get at least a few parallel chains going if you have mult cables.
Super-intriguing piece of kit-- I've always been fascinated by matrix routing, and this makes me want to explore my Arturia Synthi V in depth (mostly because I can't justify dropping four big ones on this). Tangentially related question: are you planning on releasing a Beebo/Digit review anytime soon? I'm expecting mine to ship in a couple of weeks, and I always value your insight on all this gear.
Sorry, no plans for a review any time soon. It's awesome and easy to use but I just have so many things going on right now I won't find time to get to it soon. I find the separation between Beebo and Digit a little frustrating - "I want everything immediately available now!" ;) but I spoke with the developer about that and apparently it's too taxing on the CPU to just have everything in one place.
I'm literally here LOOKING for a loopop PolyEffects review! Hoping for ideas on whether that or the H9 or Empress ZOIA is a better all-in-one for synth work...
That MTX9 for Eurorack seems invaluable! I can have the output/input of most of my commonly used modules already wired and then just play with the pins! Do you have some pros/cons feedback on it?
Yeah, that’s my biggest gripe with it. I mean, it seems, like, *worth* it, but at the same time for like 200$ this would be an insta-buy and I can’t imagine that’s a price point it’d lose money at - these pin matrices are pretty simple as far as I understand.
It is more complicated than it looks on the surface. Splitting and merging 8 i/o without crosstalk, signal loss or overload requires quite a bit of electronic to work properly with on-the-fly re-routing… Add to this small production batch that means no economy of scale and the need for a big margin to be profitable… and voila : 400 is actually a pretty reasonable number for such a device.
I’m sure someone has asked this before, but do you personally own a boatload of gear? You have all the toyz. ;) if not, or if so I’m just glad you get to show us.
Could the mtx9a pin matrix, that you briefly presented, be used with a guitar or other line instruments? Could the exact functionality you demonstrate with the 8 be achieved with the 9?
Similar but different concept is the matrix mixer, I built a 4x4 one, just uses cheap passive components and is simple to make, should be details on youtube etc
I have the Patchulator 8000 from Boredbrain, which is basically the same concept as this but with green 1/8" patch cables on the top and 1/4" ins and outs on the sides. The MTX8 looks a lot less messy-- I always joke that the Patchulator looks like a potted plant.
Nice product but it doesn't split or mix and it's passive (well, I guess it could split with a splitter cable). Indeed it would save me watering my plant though :)
@@loopop It is also about $400 less expensive, and-- being passive-- does not need to be powered. I'd see those as advantages, if someone doesn't need to split or sum signals.
Agreed - they’re just different products. Btw FSS also sell a passive version of their matrix priced around the range of the Patchulator (though you’d need to make a box for it and buy adapters...)
@@loopop Nice! Maybe that's something to do with everything already having ground or something? If I could afford something like this I'd like a versionwith switches and leds instead of pins so it feels a little more robust and movable.
It was only a matter of time before this comment came along... congrats! you're one in 3,800. Well, two including me. Saw it only after filming (it wasn't visible from my angle...) but I tested the audio and it sounded the same, so, no reshoot...
Holy Guaccaroni, that thing is pricey! I really like the idea, but I think it'll be a while until I plugged 400€ worth of minutes. I mean that's almost in the territory of digital mixers - thinking Behringer X Air 18 - capable of similar things (technically 8 outputs if you combine aux+main) and way more (effects and 18 inputs). Of course you have to push buttons on a tablet, smartphone or PC, but if you really into hardware buttons, you can also control it via Midi.
You could always get the fss mtx9 for much much cheaper if you don't mind using minijack to jack adapters. The basic model is passive so doesn't require a eurorack power supply so you can stick it in literally any kind of box
vero board, jacks and some switches for diy well sub 50£. Its badly designed the controls were you can not see them and jacks on all the sides ... the idea is great but way overpriced
I checked the price first, then skipped forward to pros and cons. No need to watch for me. I already know I want a Eurorack system, so no cash for other gear. Must. Have. Eurorack.
Nice. But: i was promised flying cars. And this thing is still mono? Cmon, theres a solution to this, pedalmakers get together: if i plug in stereo, its stereo, when mono then mono. Lets save the planet and get rid of 50% og patchcables. 80% of my pedals are stereo, so bring it on lazybums.
I don't know who this "Jimmy" is that you're referring to, but Jimi Hendrix used distortion and wah on nearly everything, plenty of delays and reverbs, etc. Of course he's an infinitely better guitarist than the Edge, but let's not pretend that he only played a clean 6-string.
If they figured a way to turn the pins in to some kind of knob, think like a removable potentiometer, to control the individual patch volume, this would be a classic piece of gear in a heartbeat. I know matrix voltage mixers exist, but the pins are a REALLY good visual way to keep track of your patch. Wonderful run down!
That's brilliant.
I’ve done just that with trimpots. The problem is that once you remove the pin, there’s no indication of where the pot is set unless it’s exposed (or the top is transparent) but it’s doable
Mixer Matrix by Erica Synth has that feature now 😉
The Pladask Matrise (4x4 matrix) is a viable option, but hard to acquire in 2021. It may only be 4x4, but the upside is that it has dedicated volume pots for every send/receive and polarity switches. This seems neat, and 8x8 is amazing, but, if you're creating loops and changing things up on the fly, volume knobs per output are damn-near essential.
Wow, maybe i'm just not up to date on what's going on these days, but this thing blew my mind.
I have a Boredbrain Patchulator 8000 8 Channel Mini Pedalboard Patchbay that I use with my modular system. Probably more suited to experimental feedback style of production. This however is really worth looking at particularly as I have it set up with an optional Ultrapatch patch bay from Behringer for even more dizzying permutations that can lead you to unpredictable but interesting creative results.
VFE Klein Bottle and Pladask Elektrisk Matrise have similar products to this, but 8x8 beats in terms of connections both, the advantage of the first ones is that you have control over volume and mix between the channels.
Great piece of kit. Good for experimenting with loop pedals and fx that come after.
This is exactly what I need since so much time! Thanks again for this great discover!
Cool - the only option I am aware of that is similar to this is Bored Brain's Patchulator-8000.
Very cool product! Thank you for the nice review!
Great topic for a video. Love that it encourages experimentation and is very visual.
What an awesome product. Matrix routing is so damn cool; once you start using it, you'll never go back to less flexible routing scenarios.
I've seen some complaints here about the price. I suspect that the complexity of the electronics to make matrix routing possible is why it costs as much as it does.
Excellent video sir and a very interesting bit of kit, but my OCD was screaming at you to push the black jack all the way into output C 😉
Thanks, me too I assure you. Didn't see it from my angle when filming
I mounted an 8x8 matrix board (purchased from Maplin) in a guitarist's fx rack which had 8 x mounted Boss pedals so the pedal routing could be re ordered using pins - way back in 1986!
Are those matrix boards still in stock?
@@Blurberrybrown Maplin and Tandy (Radio Shack USA) seem to have sadly gone under in the UK but I'm guessing these things must still be available www.google.com/search?safe=strict&client=ms-android-tmobile-gb&sxsrf=ALeKk03XLE3K2aVNonrX2cvYhFcEoR3p9Q%3A1598289222163&ei=RvVDX8a9CbKd1fAPiLWmqA4&q=matrix+pin+board&oq=matrix+pin+board&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBggAEAgQHjoKCCMQsAMQJxCLAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoECB4QClCLeliyiwFgnbkBaABwAHgAgAGLAogBxQuSAQUyLjkuMZgBAKABAbgBAsABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=Ah_0L-9BF8IPsM I found a few results on Google anyway, though not exactly what I used back then. Good luck
@@Blurberrybrown Sorry, didn't realise copying a simple link would be an entire novel's worth!
@@martinheath5947 No worries, Thanks for sharing
@@Blurberrybrown btw I only bought the matrix component. It did require soldering all cable connections onto it! Good project anyway!
My money's signal path:
Job -> Wallet -> Loopop's Channel -> New Gear
This is cool. I play the busses on my A&H mixer but the knobs are very tightly placed together. Good to know FSS and others know the routing struggle.
Awesome stuff! notable mention for the BoredBrain Patchculator 8000 which is a similar vibe flat patchbay - but the pin idea allowing blending is great!
As the pros and cons to me often is the most exciting section, I started to think about this album I haven't listened to in a long time:
is the first solo album by Roger Waters; it was released in 1984, the year before Waters announced his departure from Pink Floyd. The album was certified gold in the United States by the Recording Industry Association of America in April 1995
Looks like the actual album name disappeared from your comment: The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking.
@@Weetunet Thanks :)
Wow ! This is amazing to say the least !!
Very cool, but quite pricey for what it is. The Boredbrain Patchulator 8000 is a much more affordable solution, and you can get at least a few parallel chains going if you have mult cables.
Super-intriguing piece of kit-- I've always been fascinated by matrix routing, and this makes me want to explore my Arturia Synthi V in depth (mostly because I can't justify dropping four big ones on this). Tangentially related question: are you planning on releasing a Beebo/Digit review anytime soon? I'm expecting mine to ship in a couple of weeks, and I always value your insight on all this gear.
Sorry, no plans for a review any time soon. It's awesome and easy to use but I just have so many things going on right now I won't find time to get to it soon. I find the separation between Beebo and Digit a little frustrating - "I want everything immediately available now!" ;) but I spoke with the developer about that and apparently it's too taxing on the CPU to just have everything in one place.
Beebo/Digit very cool, & now a combined unit as of Jan 2021
I'm literally here LOOKING for a loopop PolyEffects review! Hoping for ideas on whether that or the H9 or Empress ZOIA is a better all-in-one for synth work...
That MTX9 for Eurorack seems invaluable! I can have the output/input of most of my commonly used modules already wired and then just play with the pins! Do you have some pros/cons feedback on it?
No feedback yet - I do want to incorporate it in my next eurorack video but that’s several weeks away
mmm probably more difficult to use if you don't have enough attenuators
I just don’t understand how this is ~400$
It must be pretty easy to make one
Yeah, that’s my biggest gripe with it. I mean, it seems, like, *worth* it, but at the same time for like 200$ this would be an insta-buy and I can’t imagine that’s a price point it’d lose money at - these pin matrices are pretty simple as far as I understand.
Limited production I assume
It is more complicated than it looks on the surface. Splitting and merging 8 i/o without crosstalk, signal loss or overload requires quite a bit of electronic to work properly with on-the-fly re-routing…
Add to this small production batch that means no economy of scale and the need for a big margin to be profitable… and voila : 400 is actually a pretty reasonable number for such a device.
I’m sure someone has asked this before, but do you personally own a boatload of gear?
You have all the toyz. ;) if not, or if so I’m just glad you get to show us.
Not a boat load unless it's a small boat - but still probably beyond what's reasonable. It's totally my pleasure to explore these with everyone
So, it's a sort of mini Synthi like patchbay ? Pretty cool :) Wouldn't be useful in my bedroom but it looks amazing !
What a great name for a band, "Serious Toe Dexterity" STD
ApeMatrix ($20) on iOS works the same. Thank you loopop!
Amazing review as always :)
We need a bigger version.
More Inputs.
Could the mtx9a pin matrix, that you briefly presented, be used with a guitar or other line instruments? Could the exact functionality you demonstrate with the 8 be achieved with the 9?
Similar but different concept is the matrix mixer, I built a 4x4 one, just uses cheap passive components and is simple to make, should be details on youtube etc
Literraly was thinking of building the very same design mixer. Would be happy to get this, but the price tag is high((
I bought a Patchulator8000 (Bored Brains) for about £100 and although it's passive , it seems to do much the same, only £300 cheaper
I have the Patchulator 8000 from Boredbrain, which is basically the same concept as this but with green 1/8" patch cables on the top and 1/4" ins and outs on the sides. The MTX8 looks a lot less messy-- I always joke that the Patchulator looks like a potted plant.
Nice product but it doesn't split or mix and it's passive (well, I guess it could split with a splitter cable). Indeed it would save me watering my plant though :)
@@loopop It is also about $400 less expensive, and-- being passive-- does not need to be powered. I'd see those as advantages, if someone doesn't need to split or sum signals.
Agreed - they’re just different products. Btw FSS also sell a passive version of their matrix priced around the range of the Patchulator (though you’d need to make a box for it and buy adapters...)
The Erica Synths matrix is far more appealing to me as you can select random patching.
Ooh... Brenso review coming up?!
It's nice there isn't any audio pops with changing all these inputs and outputs. Have you ever run in to any during use?
Indeed I was dreading that and pleasantly surprised by not hearing a single pop while testing or filming
@@loopop Nice! Maybe that's something to do with everything already having ground or something? If I could afford something like this I'd like a versionwith switches and leds instead of pins so it feels a little more robust and movable.
This versus Matrise from pladask ???
Ha! I am in the middle of a cable nightmare and this appears on my phone.
But.. but.. doesn't this make me end up with twice the number of wires?
touche great point
Actually, I think you end up with 8 extra wires when you introduce this into the signal path.
Not cheap, but holy shit I want this
what kind of cables are you using here? (The multicolored ones)
it's a no brand batch I got at a local store
@@loopop I appreciate the reply! I found some similar ones. Seismic Audio SARAPC15 and SARAPC3 if you're interested. Got them on amazon.
Couldn’t stop looking at output C not being fully seated
It was only a matter of time before this comment came along... congrats! you're one in 3,800. Well, two including me. Saw it only after filming (it wasn't visible from my angle...) but I tested the audio and it sounded the same, so, no reshoot...
Pladask Matrise 4x4
O my god,how many funny toys do you have Sir ?
Cool man
Interesting too bad the in 1 filter isn't adjustable, 200HZ seems like an arbitrary spot, too high for guitar.
What about Erica Matrix?
it is indeed awesome - came out after this
Holy Guaccaroni, that thing is pricey! I really like the idea, but I think it'll be a while until I plugged 400€ worth of minutes. I mean that's almost in the territory of digital mixers - thinking Behringer X Air 18 - capable of similar things (technically 8 outputs if you combine aux+main) and way more (effects and 18 inputs). Of course you have to push buttons on a tablet, smartphone or PC, but if you really into hardware buttons, you can also control it via Midi.
You could always get the fss mtx9 for much much cheaper if you don't mind using minijack to jack adapters. The basic model is passive so doesn't require a eurorack power supply so you can stick it in literally any kind of box
The XR18 can't be run on pedal power.
Looks like it's inspired by the old EMS Synthi's matrix
Excitement from a synth player and it took a guitar to make it happen.
When’s the frap tools brenso review :0?
No review coming but I will be exploring its sounds more soon... pretty wild
excited to hear any sounds you pull out of it :)
Erica Synths Matrix Mixer 16x16
yes an interesting new development since this video
Very interesting I take it you can wipe the writing off and write whatever
Yes
This is like ApeMatrix on the iPad
vero board, jacks and some switches for diy well sub 50£. Its badly designed the controls were you can not see them and jacks on all the sides ... the idea is great but way overpriced
I would definitely buy for £50
I checked the price first, then skipped forward to pros and cons. No need to watch for me. I already know I want a Eurorack system, so no cash for other gear. Must. Have. Eurorack.
Nice. But: i was promised flying cars. And this thing is still mono? Cmon, theres a solution to this, pedalmakers get together: if i plug in stereo, its stereo, when mono then mono. Lets save the planet and get rid of 50% og patchcables. 80% of my pedals are stereo, so bring it on lazybums.
Nice idea but £400 is waay too strong. £300 would be an ask. £200/250 much more like it. Pass I'm afraid.
£400 ? I don’t think so . I’d be struggling to justify £20 for this.
I am sure Chinese manufacturers could do it for £20 😂
It looks so ugly :(
Too bad it looks terrible.
Jimmy Hendrix never used pedals.... the Edge can’t play without them... food for thought!
bro Jimi used pedals and effects
all the time
I don't know who this "Jimmy" is that you're referring to, but Jimi Hendrix used distortion and wah on nearly everything, plenty of delays and reverbs, etc. Of course he's an infinitely better guitarist than the Edge, but let's not pretend that he only played a clean 6-string.