X4 Foundations: Are Service Crew Worth It? Part 2
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Follow up where we look at how service crew affects autotraders in this guide for X4: Foundations 5.00.
You can find part one here: • X4 Foundations: Are Se...
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X4: Foundations is the latest title in the popular X series of space simulation / sandbox games, played as action games from a first-person perspective in a living breathing universe, with TRADE FIGHT BUILD THINK as the common tag-line. X4: Foundations is unique in its depth, simulating an entire universe of NPC ships and stations, forming a realistic economy. It consists of a huge universe, simulated from the bottom up. Hundreds of stations, and thousands of ships, trade goods among themselves. Prices change based on supply and demand; resources are mined and processed in several stages. This economy is linked directly to the simulation of major conflicts in a universe with dynamically-acting factions. Every player decision can dramatically change the future of the game universe. Step in and live your very own space adventure!
#x4foundations
Out of all the x4 UA-camrs. You are the best at teaching me. You help me love this game. Keep it up Bud
You certainly need a lot of "help" to love this game =]
You have to love the punishment of this game on how broken it is
@@info_fox I have almost 200 hours and I haven't seen anything broken
I second this!
One of the best reasons to actually buy a builder ship rather than rent forever, easy access to super fast service crew levelling. One of my favourite little tricks.
Huh that's a good pro tip! I'll try it on the playthrough I just started.
@@Salac0 Yeah it's pretty handy, you can have masses of 5 star engineers after just 1 station build. X4 - The game you can play for over a thousand hours and still find new things to learn!
I bought x4 recently and I was almost about to say fuck it due to it being too complicated and no videos out there being of any help. I have now watched all of the videos you have on x4 and will be going back to like all of them. Your edits are great, try to keep it up. I'll be watching you TWH3 videos soon.
I always try to give my ships a crew whenever I can afford it. I've noticed that my transporters always have a higher chance of survival against pirates when they have a crew. Hell, I had a pirate ship blow up something I was flying, but I had a transport ship swoop in to save me and they did a much better job than I did in fighting. Crew is definitely worth it, IMO.
That might be due to the fact that service crew operate turrets (or at least I think it used to).
To make it clear how the whole thing works in the game...
1. The repair does NOT scale with the number of service men. Not for now, anyway.
2. The repair does scale with the number of service men if the ship has repair drones. And also with the number of repair drones.
3. The repair does scale with the number of total crew men. And I need to elaborate on that a little bit...
Each ship has a value "crew skill". It doesn't matter if they are Marines or Service, they all count. If a place is empty, this place also counts, but with 0 points. Empty so always bad.
The combined skill of the entire crew determines how well the ship is repaired, how effectively it mines, how long it takes to find an job ect.
*Bonus*
The skill of the pilot and the morale of each also counts to the crew skill. That is why a crew repairs the ship better when the player himself controls the ship. Because the player has completely max skill points. Morale is then another issue, it too is higher when the player is on board.
Before, until version 2.0, the skill had massive influence on the flight behavior of a ship. But unfortunately, players didn't understand that. There were many complaints about stupid flight behavior. It was about removed from the game with 2.0. At that time, the difference was extremely visible even in a boarding pod. A marine with bad pilot skill had hardly any chance to reach his target and was shot down very easily. Back then you had to destroy all the turrets when boarding. Today that is hardly important.
I mean, considering how stupid the AI is today, at least at times, & considering how long it takes to actually TRAIN said pilots I'd agree it needs to be removed or at least heavily nerfed. To begin with it sounds like a cool idea but you can't make something so frustrating to get also extremely important
Thanks for all that info. I'm a new player, haven't even completed the tutorials yet. Gathering every bit of data I can find to plan my takeover of the galaxy.
I really appreciate that you run these tests for all of us, that are too lazy to do it AND share their results AND in an easy to understand way!
Now if you could eventually explain salvaging and how to use it effectively, I would be delighted. (but no pressure)
As far as I can tell salvaging is meant as a side grade, not a replacement for factories. Since it relies on wrecks the output is highly variable which makes repeatable testing really hard to setup. But is there something particular about salvaging that you would like further explained?
@@JKNinja Actually right after posting this I realized that a salvaging station needs solid storage space for the tug boats to pull scrap to it :D
that was all that was missing *facepalm*
But yeah you are right about how hard it probably is to create test cases for this. Additionally I assume crew count doesn't change the efficiency of the tug boats a lot, since they don't really have to maneuver a lot.
I noticed that service crew had level up when ship self repaired. And the damaged captured ships are also repaired up to sometimes 75%, even 90%. And my damaged miner ship had 100% repaired. How about this idea to approach part 3, if you mind? I doubt that service crew involve to maximum self repair upkeeps and speed but had no clues.
You are correct; the higher the average service crew skill level the faster the repairs will be completed and the closer it will get to 100%
I`ve started playing X4 a couple of days ago, and your guides have helped me a great deal. Got further with them in X4 than i ever managed in X3 =) Keep it up!
Another awesome vid, thanks for the info, I too had been looking for that range button as well, lol
I've got 600 hours in game and I keep going through your videos to learn more about the mechanics. Great experiment and thank you for helping out the X4 community!
Very useful, thanks for doing the work to tell us the things that the game *should* be telling us.
Again, very helpful information. Much appreciated!
I really enjoy the way you make and edit your X4 videos, they are really chill. I eagerly wait until the next one, whatever that will be.
This video saved me from rag quiting the game. i had never noticed the global responses for pirates-being attacked stuff before. i was so tired of holding 30+ traders hands 24/7........ now i can finally PLAY the game. sure i still loose one every 2-3 hours but thats better than 2-4 every hour while also chasing down every pirate on the map... lol now i ignore the pirates. finally get to explore do missions.
I have noticed, that service crew can make essential repairs and save your shops in danger zones. And the crew trains while in service, so you can make them trained captains for new ships or better managers for new stations. And having some marines on bord change the fighting behavior or stats if you are not in sector. So yeah basically no need, but if you can get some, go for it 😉
It probably stands to reason that better service crew in a larger crew complement, would allow you to move faster through multi-sector trading in sectors with asteroids and busy traffic. So maybe that would be better for multi-sector trading. (Although that would be very difficult to prove numerically - maybe the best way is just to track the length of a trip in time from one set place to another.)
I've noticed ships repair faster with a service crew too. I've also read on egosoft forums that marine crew will have an effect on targeting of turrets. Sorry, can't get more specific than that.
This channel is top top quality
It makes a bigger difference if you're in the system they are trading in as well. It's not a common case as most will be out of your system for part of their trading if not always.
But in system and without speeding up time better crewed ships dock and undock faster.
Just found your videos after picking up X4 last week. They have all been rewlly helpful. I like your format a lot as they are clear, to the point and you're easy to listen to.
Thanks!
He's back, YAY!
Unfortunately I'm simply running out of mechanics to cover, but whenever I come up with a fun idea I'll of course pop back in
either me or some other fella who thinks like me....was your 3k subscriber. congrats on that and good vids.
I did find these results useful. :) thank you.
Thanks again mate, love your content!
another helpful banger, thanks
easy explanation and straight to the point, this is what i love of your videos.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks for your videos.
I found the video useful so I clicked all the good buttons.
I'm 8th 👍
I suppose I didn't need to post all that but the comment section looked blank and lonely
You are back with X4! Yay!
Unfortunately I'm simply running out of mechanics to cover, but whenever I come up with a fun idea I'll of course pop back in
Thank you!
Good info, thanks for running these tests and sharing the results!
Yeees, more X4!
Thanks!
I'd recommend using crew for traders for two reasons:
1. If the ship is ever damaged it will be able to repair itself.
2. It allows you to train Able service crew for combat ships.
One strategy I use is to have my large universe traders have a full crew roster and when I make new combat ships I fill them with new recruits. Then I swap the able service crew from the traders with the new recruits from the shipyard. This allows the new combat ships to come right out of the dock with an able crew and lets the recruits train passively on the traders.
Awesome, More X4! Keep it up!
good video
Glad you're back to X4. But how about races? XML files confirm that there are different piloting "styles" for each race, so it's possible that other roles might differ as well. There are claims that the paranid might have a bonus for engineering, but I can't seem to find any evidence to confirm or deny the rumor. Might be a "fun" idea for part 4.
I've seen the XML with the scripts "dogfight 1, dogfight 2" etc, but it looks to me more dependent on pilot skill. Admittedly I could be reading it wrong
I was referring to the "So Pilots ... Gospel from developers on them?" thread on egosoft forums, after looking though XML again it seems like it affects whether dogfight 1 or 2 is used, along with having certain weights for each disengagement option. Fun stuff, might be dated as it was accurate for 3.0
the crews are still useful for repairing the ship as well as having marines on board to prevent boardings
AI never board ships aside from plot, unless changed
thx for keeping up you very good work!
Can you test the same thing with a different selection of wares? I remember a dev post on the Egosoft forum from way back when, saying that simply selecting all the wares is not a good way to go about it. I believe he suggested that for optimal outcome, a single ship should only focus on about 4-6 types of wares. This would allow you to prevent it from wasting its time on food delivery, when there's more profitable stuff to be had at the same time. Also, the volume of the traded wares should be matched to the overall size of the cargo hold. So don't let an S hauler auto-trade in bulky goods like Scanning Arrays for example.
Ran these numbers through the same quick spreadsheet calc I just mentioned in the previous video... with similarly interesting results. Both crewed ships had greater standard deviation than the uncrewed ship. The base crew had 50% greater deviation while the elite crew only went up by 22% compared to the uncrewed ship. Given the trivial gains in the average I don't think I'd use a crew unless I planned to spend a fair bit of time in risky areas. A single run would be too much of a gamble. You can see this in the charts in the video plain as day. three of the five sets of runs the elite crew made were lower yield than the uncrewed ship. Would the uncrewed ship outperform the elite crew 60% of the time over the long haul? Maybe not. But why send out a ship that has a 60% chance of doing worse than another ship?
Thanks for uploading these tests JK Ninja, I'm curious if Pilot level would affect traders running the same set-up (i.e. between 0, rank 1, and rank 3/4) with everything else being equal, maybe if the range was set to 1-system it would have a greater effect? or perhaps it has a bigger effect over a slightly longer time period (15-20 Minutes in SETA). Reasoning being was that while there wasn't significant gains, there did appear to be a statistically weak, yet positive correlation between having crew and not having crew. (like 0.1 or 0.2 (10-20% correlation).
Also curious if Service crew improve fighter-craft sized vehicles at all. I always run 1 on a ship I'm personally using (1 if a fighter, max if anything bigger, and then mostly service crew w/ some marines on whatever my dedicated boarding craft is (currently a Raptor carrier thanks to your video about how dope the raptor is).
The regular crew actually performed better than the elite crew, so any gains were most likely due to random chance. I could have performed more testing to verify but it took 3 hours to gather the data and another 3 hours for scripting, recording, and editing. In the end I simply don't have the time to do everything I would like
@@JKNinja Fair enough, wonder what it was about the regular crew then... You're probably right in that it was just random chance. As for not enough time, man I feel that. Still, thanks for replying and for uploading, its much appreciated :)
I've honestly been loving your videos and have helped get me back in the game. Though, I would love it if you covered Blacklists because I'm either, A, messing something up or, B, they're just completely broken and not working. Main system I'm trying to blacklist is Hatikvah's Choice cos Xenon being Xenon and have placed 3 K's guarding their gate.
Your ships will follow your blacklists unless you order them into that sector or it's the only way through. That might be why your ships arent doing what you want.
I can look into writing a script for a Blacklist video but what problems in particular are you facing?
@@JKNinja I basically have it set up to avoid travelling through hatikvah, and there is definitely a way round, but they ignore the blacklist and attempt to go through the system.
Sector containing dangerous regions and enemy owned is on, also restricting xenon and khaak, and restricting hatikvah choice 1 and the void. I know they'll use the void because it's the safest route out of terra but they'll constantly use hatikvah despite unlocking the whole highway. Both civ and military on.
@@shewhothirsts5632 ...if it's station owned ships they will not go further than 5 jump gates. if there is no other way
@@Mondfischli ha. It did sort itself out in the end, but I did have to reload the save because it cost me my syn.
you said that crew increases the speed that miners mine, that in itself is an increase in profits, because you can collect, and turn around faster which means more runs for the time allocated. which is more profits, it isn't an increase in margins tho.
not sure how it would be tested but a crew video for combat ships would also be interesting, but ya i have no idea how you would viably test the effectiveness since ai combat is very random it seems.
A "standardized" test might be possible by taking a mission to remove laser towers. Save before any runs, doing a couple with the same crew to get an "average". Then change crew and do a couple more runs.
With all the effort placed into having a crew game mechanic you would have thought it would have more benefits.
Ninja Senpai are awesome for Noobs like me ^-^ and ofc for fun
An argument in favour of service crew on traders is that if they arn't strictly necessary, then they can be used as a sort of "training vessel." for engineers to be transferred off to bigger more important ships when the time comes to buy one. If you're going to buy a trader anyway why not buy them with some engineersto pre-cook some able service crew for your next miner or destroyer?
this is what i use my trader crews for, trains a ton of people and its great, tho i find the builder to be the best ship at training crew, seems to take no time to get level 4-5 engineers with it.
but which crew are the cutest?
Crew also passively repairs your ships, no?
So technically that does increase profits, since you can just leave them even when damaged a bit, without having to pay money to repair them (or god forbid manually eva to repair each one)
You will want to have crew on yours traders, especialy big ones because it good way to train them for yours miners and combat ships :-) Better will be only the builder ship :-)
What about combat effectiveness?
Or did your other video already cover that?
So is there a sweet spot for transport crew numbers? Do more crew really make the ship more responsive in combat? I wonder if half crew capacity works well?
They increase a little % of your money on this test:
264K to 287K.
How many they cost (all crew?)
If they bring they're cost in 3 hours, it's ok, my traders work for like 10hours.
I add in crew to make the pilot less lonely.
Don't won't him to go insane and kamikaze one of my stations or ships.
Well, it is abstract. If a transport show is blown up without crew, but could've survived with a crew, you'd save potentially hundred of thousands of credits for that ship.
Wonder if there's a difference on miners with a fresh new crew vs a full 4-5 star crew ?
“Is XYZ worth it?” video under 3 minutes? You should train everyone else on UA-cam to be as awesome and efficient as you!
👍
Is a service crew necessary for a player combat m class. For instance a nemesis sentinel. Not using it for mining or trading but combat. I heard service crew repairs L ships but not M ships is this correct?
Does having a crew help hull repair over time ? So you don't need to order them to repair when damaged.
they will but only when it is badly damaged. I think the crew will only repair up to 65% and even that is with high stars. If the service crew has no stars it may be unnoticeable
Doesn't crew re\pair hull and increase shield recovery also? Been awhile and I am getting older but seems to be what I member from this game when it launched
crew will repair hull, but doesn't effect shield recovery. The amount repaired is determined by skill, so will need at least 2-3 stars for any noticeable effect
@@JKNinja seems like a good enough reason to crew up ships
I'm always in doubt about ratio between crew and marines, no matter in which ship. So far keeping it 50/50 for all, but that kind of feels wrong.
Like, why would I need half marines on ships in some battle group, which could destroy any enemy trying to board. Maybe?
The AI doesn't board so its better to have everyone be service crew and instead use marines in purpose built boarding craft
@@yenius3203 I went through the .xml files but couldn't find anything. Do you have any specifics? That sounds like an interesting experiment but I need more information
I mean, the argument at the end is flawed. Your average increased by 20,000 over ~10 runs, IIRC. Sure, that's a very minimal increase but those crew, assuming no unfortunate hazard or rogue AI-related accidents occur, will never cost you anything again. Plus a more responsive ship = faster mining which means the downtime better payday is shortened, meaning those same 10 runs took LESS time than your "no crew" runs did
That is correct, I covered the benefits of service crew for miners in part 1
Are you in system during these tests or out of system?
I'm OOS in my Earth PHQ for these tests