Zurn Pex B Failures. Uponor Pex A Has Failures. So Does Zurn Pex B
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Zurn Pex B has some issues. The manufacturing process has manufacturing defects from time to time and the pipe must be examined before it is installed in the walls of any home. That being said I prefer Zurn Pex B over Uponor Pex A. Uponor Pex A is failing in San Diego, San Clemente, Mission Viejo, Lagunia Nigual, Orange County, Aliso Viejo, Newport Coast. Los Angeles, Irvine.
Why would you continue to use a product that you have to check every inch of for defects? I can't even believe that you are suggesting that?
NO ONE will check for manufacturing flaws
No one
You recommended Zurn Pex B in your previous video now I'm lost. Maybe we will just stick with the ole galvanized pipes we have from the 60s. The sound in your video is ASMR grade. Very clean acoustics.
What the hell man? I just started looking into using Zurn pex b based on your videos, and the "undulations" inside uponor. Now you're supposed to check zurn pipes because they might have 5 manufacturing defects per foot? Seems like it's not all you made it out to be.
3/30/24 is there any expansion PEX A manufacturer out there where I do not have to worry about material quality or quality inspection or lack there of provided by the co or manufacture before the material hits the market ? I feel like I just watched a video advising us viewers to use Zurn expansion PEX B over uponor due the inner deterioration of matl via chlorine & anomia . I think the only solution is to go back to copper. At least we know BEFORE hand what’s expected.
Thanks for all the information on this! I can't believe you seem to be the only professional pointing all these flaws, we are really creating another enormous cost in our housing 🤦
Since you found these issues with Zurn B, do you still strongly recommend Zurn Pex B as the best piping to use currently?
Unless you like chemicals in your water go with other companies
@@frankfrank5821 What brand / model of PEX piping do you recommend now? I didn't understand your comment.
F... it everything has a problem anymore pex, copper, ss, lets go back to lead pipe the Romans made lead pipe that lasts a thousand years. Lol just joking.
I'm down
Or get a bucket say F'it and head down to the brook grab a bucket head back home and cook
I made the mistake of doing a drywall job recently with ultralight sheetrock (never again), and it was full of big voids between the paper. Everything is junk now
I have watched several of your videos. You don't like Uponor and you also have issues with Zern pex pipe. Is there a pex pipe that you do like? I have a old house that needs to be totally repiped. It currently has pvc and it is always having pipe failure. And I would appreciate your opinion on what type of pipe I should use. I would like to go with pex, for the ease of using that type of pipe. I live in Texas. Doesn't get super cold that often. But actually it doesn't get down in the low teens.
Put 3 mil plastic on th windows and heat the building ??? Waste of time and money !!!
This begs the question.. is Zurn Pex B less able to withstand a freeze/thaw incident after installation, or is at just as good as Uponor Pex A; That is, I just want to confirm for myself and others that the Zurn Pex B problem is only at installation. I read below that Zurn says they can be installed down to 5deg F - if that is true, that is disturbing.
I'm getting ready to repipe my house, and you bring up the situations I'm afraid of. I want to use either copper rings or stainless clamps and I don't need failures. I'm in the northeast and at altitude, slightly. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing ALL of your experience and insights into PEX A, PEX B and Zurn Pex B. I've been leery of using any PEX and will be starting construction on a very large rammed earth home. I'd love to get your suggestions and feedback. I know it will be slower and cost more, but this home is built to last... hundreds of years. What do you think of the Viega ProPress system? Thanks for your input.
Zurn Pex-B was not originally designed for expanding rings. How long a history has Zurn had with the expand fittings?
2018
Expansion is a joke, way more expensive, takes up way more space, and its constantly contracting over the fitting where the pipe happens to be much thinner much like swedging and/or flaring copper....
I bought my home in 1986. It already had been repiped with CPVC and across my attic partly. I live in north Florida. That pipe is still up there. I have never had an issue with it. I think I’ll just leave it alone.
don't bother it and it won't bother you. I have cpvc that is old, maybe older than that. You can't slice it, you have to use a tubing cutter if you need to work on it. Brittle now. I don't like that, but otherwise it just sits there doing what it should
Guessing it's most practical to examine the outside unless you send an endoscope down every long run. Speaking of which, failed fittings on a trunk and branch system suggests only home runs for every fixture, using an accessible manifold.
And that introduces new problems, with all the added fittings at the manifold, the manifold itself, and all the extra pipe that then needs inspection. How do you get out of that circle of doom?
I'll run CPVC before I put in a Manabloc and/or use Pex A pipe
Any polymer product will have a higher fracture rate if expanded in a cold temp, with increasing cold you will get more fiber breakage and loss of elasticity. Using an electric expander makes this hard to notice since it will power through the loss of stretch.
true
Well I guess I'm an amateur for using copper rings but I've never had one fail. Where are the actual failures?
I have a couple of questions, I'm a DIYer, 1 where can I find the Zurn tips for the expansion tools, I can only find propex (Uponor) tips? 2 Zurn fittings will say barbed or expansion fittings are they one in the same or is one intended for copper rings and the other for expansion rings? Who is a repudiable distribute of Zurn products? I was always a fan of Uponor until I saw your video about the reaction of chlorine on the Uponor pex-a Thank you
So, whats the best color and brand of Pex A to use. Getting ready to replum my shop.
Please ! please! try raupex pipe from rehau everloc + made in Alabama us. Thank you for all of your educational and informative work.
Can you buy it on Amazon?
Any thoughts on this brand integrity repipe?
I do like the everlock + , just don't like that it's a slower process
I really like the copper pipes in my 27 year old house. No issues.
Me too. My house has original copper from 1956 . And it's In so cal. Crap water. No leaks.
I live in Hillsboro Oregon. I was wondering if the Zurn Pex B will split later if if freezes at the fittings like it does in cold installation.
I’ve seen that shit yellowing in ceilings for years.
As of Dec 2023, the best PEX recipe is Sioux Chief PEX A pipe. Boshart stainless steel fittings. Sioux Chief copper manifolds with NO valves in the manifold. This is as good as PEX gets today.
If I want to switch to Zurn expansion - can I use all my uponor expansion fittings and expansion rings with the Zurn pipe until such time as they are gone ? I’m sure this is a warranty issue but these don’t get paid anyway. I’m just trying to understand practically - if I want to make the switch … I have to throw all my fittings out (expensive)
Were going to get involved in the repipe game. As a plumber for 25 years its time. It seems like PEX B Zurn expansion is the best way to go. The homeowner will get a choice between copper and PEX.
More Plumbing companies know about all this problems. But just like the bulb associations, there up for a repeat business 1000%. It doesn't benefit them if your house doesn't need them for 50 years. So it is something that I appreciate in this channel that wants a better product for his costumers or followers.
I 100% disagree most people can't afford other options pex is cheap
Is there a temperature range that the splits start showing up at. I'm putting 300 feet of it underground, and this has me concerned.
Mabey cinch clamps are the best..they tested highest on psi rating...they are more restrictive...but over size. The piping....and the fittings don't fit so tight that they could split the pipe after clamped...and I prefer to use brass fittings before plastic....
Glad i found this, NO ZURN FOR ME
Just wondering if you have ever looked into Mr.Pex. Not only is the story of Tomas Lenman a facinating one The pex itself checks all the boxes of what you want in a pex product.
Are zern pipe materials made in the USA, or are they made out of the country? The only reason I ask is because there are a bunch of Products assembled in the United States, but the materials are made out of the country where they're not regulated. I am not bashing on zern but just curious.
Thank you. I have a small home job so a warming few fittings with heat gun or hair dryer would be ok? I'm sold on the Zurn expansion fittings. Thank you for your videos.
Good call
I believe the major difference between Pex A and B is that you don't use expansion joints on Pex B.
If you have to do this much explaining, you’ve got a crap, unreliable product.
Why would you even consider using a product that has the potential to split upon expansion. Doesn't matter the weather.
Its quite obvious this guy knows very little about the availability of the pex pipe brand he advocates that people use in their homes.
will the splitting be an issue months from now when the weather drops into the single digits?
Yeah, stuff shrinks in the cold, it's going to beat up on the plastic as well. Only a matter of time in my opinion. I was hot and heavy for pex on my repipe, now I'm thinking copper despite the ridiculous cost.
Have you looked at the Jones Stephens Pex-A, which is made in Spain? Is there any Pex-A piping you like or do you think they are all flawed? There is a big advantage to less fitting, which is more possible with the bendability of Pex-A
According to Zurn, minimum temperature for installation is 5°F. That seems awfully optimistic to me.
I see now that Turn does use expansion joints on pex B. Not sure why the distinction is made if the attachments are the same.
Are you able to use the uponor fittings and expansion rings with the zurn b pipe? All the fittings I have found for zurn are for the crimp rings not the expansion.
Yes
Shark bite all the way!!
It will last forever
I think these videos were made in light of lawsuits against the plumber and his company what I believe he is hoping for is retaliation from the product manufacturer it’s really sad to see UA-cam being used to impart false information to the public in order to corrupt the information that’s available but of course he could be receiving counterfeit product and is unaware of it PEX A and PEX B are not proprietary descriptions or names they are to designate industry standards for chemical composition and characteristics of PEX pipe.
Oh, PALEAZE!!
Nothing wrong with telling us what he get put through, due to manufacturer ARROGANCE.
its gotta be the air in your area !!!!!
What happens to Zurn Pex B if it freezes below zero for a period and you put pressure in the pipe? I suspect its going to crack and leak.
There is a big commercial From zurn that is announcing that they are certified as expandle, The problems is there is no date on the video or website, suggesting that the old zurn b pipe is not certified expandle. ( WE have a bunch of zurn b pipe in a job trailer that we want to use) My question is when did zurn announce that they are "certified" expandable, and what if any changes did they make to the pipe, to be certified. Specifically exactly what Born on date, going forward, is it certified expandle. Ive sent zurn emails-no response. This guy making video might know but no response. I think my line of thought is valid af and want ansswers but cant get them
If it splits during installation in the cold, what happens to the Zurn pipe if it freezes with water in the pipe? Does Zurn pipe fail with frozen water in the pipe?
Water freezing in the pipe will not expand nearly as much as an expansion tool. I would assume pex a, expandable pex b and then regular pex b in that order for freeze tolerance
excellent point but the amount of expanion may or may not justify the assumption--you voice my thoughts on this
Can’t beat copper!!!
PEX B is inferior to PEX A. Let's just get that out of the way. Most repipes or redirects are routed through attics. PEX A has better freezing protection compared to PEX B. Also has MUCH better flow than PEX B. So PEX A and Boshart stainless steel fittings reign king in 2023. Far as pipe brands go, I like Sioux Chief. Never an issue like Zurn or Uponor pipe. I wouldn't use Uponor if it was free.
So, no expansion Pex? Back to copper?
You've convinced me not to use zurn 😂
Moral of the story - NEVER use Zurn pipe anywhere in the Country where it freezes. If you go on vacation over winter and the furnace fails, you will end up with a soaking wet mess.
What pipe do you recommend?.. both A and B plex?.. thanks… what do you think about Shark Bit pipe.. that’s all I see at the box store
What do you think of *non-Zurn* PEX B? Do you use it? Is there anything we need to watch for?
For new construction install, I’m considering Viega. Your thoughts?
Viega used to be Vanguard, it's not F1960(expansion) rated, but it's still better than Pex A...
I'm aware that clorinated water and UV light can take a toll on Pex but saying that you have to inspect your pipe for manufacturing defects isn't confidence inspiring. I also live in the NE and in the dead of winter telling me that I have to heat a house up to 70 degrees before doing an install just isn't practical. Sure I'd rather work in a warmed space but walking into an unfinished house in January when it's been 15 degrees all weekend and trying to heat it to 70 degrees would take nothing short of setting the place on fire.
MY PEX HAS TO BE REPLACED. Is there any PEX that will last. I am in the south on non chlorinated well water.
can u use pex a fittings and expansion rings with zurn pex b? thanks
Wanna be liability free, even in your own home? Do what the mfgr says to do. Nothing else matters, unless of course, you find a mfgr more to your liking. I'm forever doing that. Hey, best of luck. Always remember, a warranty protects the mfgr, not the customer. A warranty defines and limits the mfgr's responsibilities and liabilities.
If Zurn doesn't go forward it goes backwards. Must stay moving forward..
Always use PEX-A pipe and connect with Expension Rings. It is the best PEX pipe and best way of conenction
manufacturing defects on the pipe are totally unacceptable... its a manufactured item in a linear process and should should should be consistently repeatable.
I fixing to build a $100,000 travel trailer what pipe and fittings would you recommend ??? Zurn Pex B ???? Thanks for your help....
I suspect Zurn Pex B may crack in cold temperatures, even if you drain the system, but I could be mistaken. I would recommend you do so research, perhaps contact Zurn to see if they would recommend it using in a travel trailer. I believe Pex A is less likely to crack under very cool temperature exposure & I believe the issue with Pex-A is Chloramines in muniwater. A carbon filter "might" remove the Chloramines to prevent the pipe from failing. Note that even copper is failing when exposed to Chloramines. I think the issue is that with a travel trailer you have no way to know if the water your using will have Chloramines since your probably traveling to lots of locations.
@@guytech7310 There will be a 3 stage filter on trailer for incoming water.......Let me rephrase my question....If YOU were building a travel trailer what would you use for the water piping?...all pipes will be inside the trailer.....will be in cold climates at times......Thank you for your time...
@@kkz2dgz Issue is if the water freezes its going to split\crack the pipes. My recommendation is to contact the manufacturer since they likely did testing for this. Try contacting Uponor (Pex A) about using for your application. I would also look for an easy way to drain the system to avoid damage caused by freezing.
I heard of people not company, "people" changing the rules on mixing Pex A expansion and doing it on Pex B, not only is that wrong but kills your warranty for a product not to be mix with others,
What year did Zurn pex B become expandable?
that whole system is shit, i want a refund.
Glad I watched this before taking his advice from a previous video on how zurn was so good.
@@n_a3522 Zurn is the Best Pex System available Right Now. Is it perfect no!
I want to put pex A into a slab pour for radiant floor heating, but worried about it now after hearing you pex a video!
Unless it is a vacation home where rodents are prevalent!!!!!!!
Maybe stainless steel fittings are the innovation you're looking for! Stainless material/manufacturing cost has come down... it's being used more in everything everywhere. Stronger than brass, bends rather than snaps, more corrosion resistant, and now they're affordable compared to brass...
Ok....I'm a homeowner, and I live in South Carolina. With all this talk of failures with all these pex pipes ,what type,size and brand of pipe do you recommend for my repipe on a 1995 built wood framed home that has a beam and pier foundation with an insulated enclosed crawlspace. I have an electric water heater and 2 bathrooms ,1 kitchen sink,1 dishwasher, 1 utility sink, a washer machine, and 4 exterior water hose spigots. I'm also on well water with zero chlorine.
From what I can gather watching a few videos from IRI is that its not the pipes of the fittings that are the problem per se. Its the way municipalities are treating their water. They went from using chlorine to something else, that new chemical is what's attacking the pex pipes and fittings. It seems a simple fix would be to have a activated charcoal filter system between the city supply and your plumbing that would remove and neutralize that effect. But I'm no expert. I just had a new home built in Florida and now I have to find out what pipes they used and see if I need to install a filter system.
@@johnbalogna803 I think that is correct. My understanding that copper pipes are also failing of the Muni water is treated with Chloramines. Probably the best recommendation is to ask the muni what chemicals they are treating water with and make a material decision based upon the water treatment method use. However, best opinion probably would be to use a carbon filter to remove the water treatment chemicals. Chloramines are slightly toxic to humans.
Why are you re-piping a 28 year old home?
@Michael M We are doing a whole house renovation. The existing plumbing is in bad shape and is a mix of copper,cpvc, and pex b. I want to re-pipe it with a better system. However, I don't want to use copper.
didnt you just put a video recommending zurn pex b and you have it in your own home
That's what I was thinking. I just watched the one saying Zurn pex b was the best. i was about to go and buy that.......Now I am confused........
Yes he did
Why not just use original brass pex fittings
i think it's crazy something so critical with severe liability has poor QC?? I just subscribed to you bc you arent afraid to point out the BS. Manufactures are pretty much inadvertently throwing Plumbers under the bus
Good news to know
Everything has failures
Those manufacturing defects could have been caught by automated inspection. Very cheap to do. Just need a will.
Check out the PE-RT tubing
Has anyone run into these issues in Apollo Pex A?
I’d like to know the same
I have never used Apollo Pex and I never will. sorry
@@IntegrityRepipeIncI'm curious, why do you say that you never will? availability, quality, cost?
Apolo is manufactured in China let's just say you like a little water with your glass of chemicals ✌️
What kind of advice is this??? Even though it's possible to attach Zurn Pex-b the same as Pex-a, Pex-b is meant to be installed with copper crimp rings.
"A" vs "B" dictating the install method only is true when no one makes PEX B that confirms to ASTM F1960, like Zurn does. It's literally all over their website.
Can I use PEX-A fittings with Zurn PEX-B pipe and rings?
Zurn needs to check for defects! 🙄
Does the color matter? I’m replacing some CPVC and can only seem to find red
The red pex is only red to tell the difference between hot and cold at a glance. Both red and white pex have the same operating specifications.
Good stuff
Thank you
dip it in hot water or spray hot water on it
Do you ever run into Rehau?
Sorry I do not use Rehau.
very informative, does this all pertain to heating pex with oxygen barrier as well
I WONT USE TYPE A ANYMORE
Why?
@@markhaggerty8200 NOT as strong. Problems putting it together when wet..changing heads every size..IF the brass fittings have the slightest nick they leak ..harder to get expander in spots...more expensive...THATS WHY.
Whats the best you suggest for repipe?
I'm fully equipped for expansion, but choose not to use it because it's not practical on repipes due to taking up so much space, also the tool will easily split the fittings on fitting to fitting applications....
on fitting to fitting you need to do both hoses before inserting the fitting
How about warming the fittings and pipe ends in a bucket of warm water for a couple minutes? And not using plastic fittings?
The question is, would Zurn B crack when exposed to low temperations. Perhaps your method would prevent cracking during assembly. One way to test is to take Zurn-B with a fitting installed and put into a freezer & see if it fails.
I've used the pex b and copper crimp rings from lowes for years and I've never had a failure.
I repipe 2-3 homes each day right now with a 25 years minimum warranty. I can not us amateur parts or methods.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc When all you have is a hammer everything looks like nail. If my company was called "Repipe guys" I'd think every other method terrible too! Got to meet that quota.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc What state are you doing all these pipe replacements in
@@IntegrityRepipeInc It's not necessarily an amateur "method" or "part". Regular old pex with copper crimp rings has been in use a very long time and is pretty well proven, I've seen a lot of Viega pex b which is near 20 years old with little in the way of failures and if you cut into the pipes they still look good. ASTM 1960 expansion fittings are comparatively new and Zurn's track record ain't great. For my money I like the press fittings from Viega and their track record with pex is pretty good, fostapex aside which was a troublesome product. The stuff from Lowes is usually Apollo or sharkbite, it's decent quality stuff obviously a professional does not buy their pipe from Lowes typically but that doesn't make it a bad product per se.
I just purchased the uponor expansion tool. Should I return it?
You can order the expander ends for the Milwaukee and Dewalt specifically for Zurn pex b, from a plumbing supply store.
Great content! Keep it up.
Well said
Is the Uponor failures happening in the white pipe as well as the red and blue, and was it a specific batch/lot?
The Extrussion method is the problem, batch/lot is diversion tactic from the actual fundamental problem .
@@IntegrityRepipeInc Thanks for the reply. I read that Wirsbo has/had been making this pipe in Europe for many decades with no issues, is Uponor doing something different now?
@@ohger1 Uponor is failing world wide according to the phone calls I receive.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc Thanks for the reply Joe. I saw a Uponor repipe and the leaking/failing sections were yellowed and cracked in the same way as you've shown in your videos, but several sections from the same job were white and otherwise normal, so I'm speculating that certain batches are more prone to early failure from chlorine/ammonia than others. I guess time or actual lab testing will tell.
Been working in Highrise in Toronto for 15 years. We’ve installed millions of feet of Uponor expandable PEX A pipe in condo’s, etc, as this is the only approved pipe allowed in Highrise bedsides copper. During winter we have the weather kept warmer from temp heat. I do most of the company service which runs over 250 men. I’ve never see any wirsbo leaks from the coloured Uponor pipe as of yet. Buildings have been built 20-60 stories+. Only the clear pipe is been used now with coloured lettering. We’ll keep an eye out if I hear of any failures.
I had an Uponor line hooked up to city water loose its properties which lead to a failure about a week ago. The pipe did not shrink back down even after a day just enough it was able to blow off and somehow did not come off when I initially pressurized the line. In the picture you can see the end of the pipe stayed slightly flared out.
Yes once the pipe has been compromised it can not be restored it must be replaced. Sorry
I sent in the section of pipe and I have no idea what type of results if any to expect from uponor labs. I take it that PEX type b is more like hdpe and can be worked on afterwords. I'm tempted to just order some zurn from Ferguson. I prefer the expansion fittings and I did not know that was a possibility with PEX type b, at least an accessible option. Thank you for the advice. I am still tempted to try to run as much as I can in copper since the pipes that I was replacing were not too bad except for the fittings in a few places considering the age, about 60 plus years. I might end up investing in ProPress to save on time. My theory with the PEX type a is that I would be able to have little to no fittings behind a wall where I cannot get to them.
Don't waste your time watching this video. Zurn products expansion fittings are not available at any of the local supply houses or online. unless you order bag or box quantities because distributors won't sell Zurn Pex and Zurn won't sell Pex in smaller quantities. I wanted this product but Zurn only sells in bag or box quantities and distributors like Ferguson now have their own brand Jones Stephens so they won't have stock.