As a chemist and former municipal water treatment operator, not all water systems use chloramines. Chloramines are usually added if a water treatment facility puts out too many THMs. As someone who has done a few repairs to the UPONOR PEX-B, it developed micro-cracks near the crimp rings. IMO this is due to the smaller percentage of cross-linking during the extrusion and or polyethylene polymerization process. This is a very informative PEX-A video, thank you.
CHECK WITH YOUR WATER COMPANY. Not all water companies use chloramine. It is not required by federal law. According to the EPA “The Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) gives individual states the opportunity to set and enforce their own drinking water standards if the standards are at a minimum as stringent as EPA's national standards.” Individual states set their standards and the water companies determine how to meet those standards. My water company in Alabama confirmed that they use bleach to disinfect the water. They will not use chlorine gas because it’s too expensive and dangerous to handle. They also will not use chloramine either because bleach is an adequate primary disinfectant and there’s no need for a secondary disinfectant like chloramine. Mr. Ludlow may work in areas that use chloramine but not all areas do. The most important question is why do those companies use chloramine at all when better solutions are used elsewhere?
Even if your municipality doesn't use chloramines now, they might in the future. I also am not convinced it's a chloramine issue by itself. I think it's a batch issue with Uponor in that some batches were more prone to chemical burn from chloramine than others. There have been issues with people on well water experiencing failure, and wells don't have chloramine. Someone else commented that it might be some Uponor that is stored in warehouses in bright light for months at a time that might have damaged some pipe long before it was ever installed. Too much unknown at this point.
Ammonia as a strongly alkaline solution destroys PEX-a completely, because ammonia sucks out all oxygen from peroxides as cross-linking agents in PEX-a pipes production. But PEX-a withstands against chlorine as a disinfection additive used before providing new standards.
Thank you very much. I saw this channel as I sat down to order PEX-A from the web. I have copper pipes that are failing. This is a DIY project. Before I make an otherwise foolish purchase, THE big question that I have is what about well water with NO additives? Will the Pex hold up?
Thank God for honest plumbers like you willing to share your time, knowledge and experience. Disturbing how our government mandates these additives to the public water supply. If it chemically reacts with polyethylene this way, what does it do inside humans? Maybe we will soon need to plumb houses end-to-end in stainless steel.
Everywhere around me uses chlorine. With that said pex a does not like aun light. So some basements have a lot of light and open ceilings. That can make a difference. I am putting pex a in my home this fall. Im not worried about it. My town uses chlorine plus i have a charcoal filter that gets rid of it anyway. Ill also be putting R19 over my water pipes to keep them out of the sun and help to keep the temperature the same.
EXACTLY!!!!!! … i thought i was the ONLY one on here that noticed that…. that means the degradation would have went through 3 layers of material mysteriously…. where NO WATER exists🧐
Thanks for the info joe, I talked with you awhile back to discuss a heating project I was going to do. I am thinking maybe to just stick with old school copper pipe to do my project. It's a shame what they are putting in our water. Most plumbing supply houses near me and plumbers don't even know about the pex products. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
I work for a water agency in Southern Cal. We use chlorine. If chloramine does this to this type of pex how does it deteriorate the outside of theb pipe that has no contact with the water.
I live in North Carolina and I bought my house march of 2020 and it was built at the end of 2019 new construction. All the pipe in my house is uponor pex a. There are 300 homes in my Developement with this pipe. So you are telling me we are all tucked in 7 years?
Sorry for the late reply I am getting very old. Your home will have Red, White and blue pipes. someone in your development will have a failure. When that happens make sure you gather all the proper evidence or you will lose your own case. The first leaks are usually in the Red or White pipes in the garage or down stairs bath/Laundry. call me when it happens because the warranty rules are going to go threw changes now that the failures are increasing.
Please tell the public what a whole house RO unit cost for a 2 story 3 bath 2,000 sf home coast and are you aware that it is illegall to run RO water in copper pipes in a Home or a water purification store in all plumbing codes.
What if the reverse osmosis system is underneath your kitchen sink after all the copper lines? Then the copper can't leach into the system as long as there's pex going from the drinking tap and the ice maker, right?
my house in Canada is 22years old with wirsbo pex A the cold water pipe is still white/translucent the hot water pex A has changed to a light tan/translucent.recently installed four 20x4.5 inch big blue filter canisters running a sediment two carbon block filters and one heavy metal filter which also has a fair amount granular carbon in it stripping out all the chlorine before going to the pex headers and piping
Thanks joe, How does this apply to well water? Obviously all wells are different, but no added chlorine. P.S.- all pex-a went back for 400' of Zurn. We appreciate what you do for the community.
I have the same question. I hope to build a new home in the next few years and was planning on Pex-A We have very soft well water. Thanks for the education.
Don’t let the light touch pipe. Keep covered while I’m storage. Artificial light does give off some u v. Keep that in mind when stacked in a warehouse for a year or longer. Even the manufacture stacks the rolls in a very well lit facility. 30 days is the limit for sunlight. I still see it concrete waiting for framing. Exposed to sun. I’m the only one around refusing to put this stuff in concrete. Hvac ducts go somewhere. We following them. Better insulate properly.
Clamp rings are just as yellow as the pipe in the 7 year old example he held up, the water didn't reach the rings so how/why did they age/ yellow? This kills the internal damage theory
It doesn't really. PEX is known to be transparent to some chemicals, which is why it should not be painted. If the chloramine gets into the pipe, it might move through the pipe and the expansion ring.
All colleges have spectrometers, and chlorine will spike easily. Call a local one and have a student run the test in the rings. I'll beat it isn't there
@@paulmcdermott5475 What makes you think I'm a re-piper???? I am not even a plumber, but I have done my own plumbing in many income properties I have owned (as well as heating and electrical work). The only thing I don't do is my own carpentry. I have personally used Uponor but have not seen a failed Uponor pipe ever, and I doubt that most professional plumbers have. Despite the fact this failure with Uponor is certainly happening, it affects a tiny fraction of the pipe they've sold.
In the future I hope the testing lab for the class action will micro inspect the rings for chlormine's in the rings. Because the White and Blue pipes ring are turning yellow also. That means that the chlorine and ammonia in the water can penetrate the A extrusion method pipe and rings.
I appreciate your vids and insight, but I think it’s odd to assume the new clear pipe will fail in the same manner the old did. If they’re having a liability nightmare why would they just change the color and nothing with the process/material? You claim they fail from break point chlorination, but do you have any lab reports indicating this is the most likely cause of failure? Any fracture or chemical analysis performed? Did uponor say it was break point chlorination? With all due respect, I think they’re going to be the closest to knowing actual root cause of failure being they’re paying claims left and right for this failure. Would love if you could share those in a video. Companies are incentivized to create robust products, or liability/claims/brand image will lead to bankruptcy. All the best
My problem is. How do you separate a Liquid from another Liquid? Can someone please explain what in a water filer can do this! On well water I have no experience. sorry!
I cannot find where anyone talks about Apollo PEX A products good or bad. Parts readily available at the local big box store. Joe, I have watched about all the UA-cam vids you have, and could I get some insight on Apollo PEX A Products please? Is it a bad product? Waste of Money? I'll be replacing gray polybutylene piping in a Double wide mobile home.
This should not be an issue if you have well water that does not contain Ammonia. Furthermore, many local water sources use Chlorine and not Ammonia - Therefore, I wouldn't be concerned about using Pex A unless known damaging chemicals are flowing through your pipes. UV Damage is one method that can degrade plastic pipes as well and cause yellowing/hardening. Just my 2 cents.
As a plumber for 22 years. My most vivid experiences are those people that have learned the wrong way. Had success doing it the wrong way. Because people paid but rarely called back. People will pay you to leave. Then they never have to see you again. This is a vast majority. Don’t base your level of respect due to financial situation. A lot of plumbers going to in home service from new work. They forgot during new work. That those clients don’t know the plumbing company name much less be able to call that specific person back and let him see his fuck ups and bad philosophy. It’s normally the tech 15-20 years later. So don’t always believe grey bearded plumbers. This pipe has been sun bleached and he thinks you can use expansion fittings on b pex. Turn the channel and unsubscribe. Don’t believe everything you hear. When in doubt. Read up on manufacture specs.
Yikes I would like to hear your response from Matt risinger who's been praising Uponor A for a while inspiring a lot of people to use it. How long have we known this information ? And what is the alternative
He just pushes anything he is given - I really try not to use anything these influencers push because you know they are just salesman trying to make a sale what happens after you are SOL they could care less - I just got Pex-A expander because one of my Commerical customer has a 14 story building done out of Pex-A and there have already been failures mostly at joint through substandard install - plus it is an off brand
With PEX and copper being susceptible to chloramines, wouldn't it be prudent to use CPVC? Even with getting brittle as it ages it doesn't lose it's structural integrity.
This sounds like it might be specific to your community. Here in Florida in my community chloramine is not used and we do not have this issue. Chloramine is not required by federal law. We have been installing Uponor for over 20 years and have not had a failure. We have used them in Recirc Systems, Manifold Systems, and Standard Piping Systems.
If your company re-piped my home like 5 years ago. Do we have the failing A or were you using the Zurn B? Are you guys able to come and expose some pipe to verify ? Thanks.
@Integrity Repipe inc I think he was asking for a friend, yet probably already knows that your company infact, did do the work & REALLY like I, wants to know the date/time frame that Uponor stoped selling the faulty pipe. 🤙🏽 Thanks
Hi@@David-fk6yg. Please understand that I need whoever owns the property to call me. I need First and last name address and phone number. so I can check my records. No one has called me!! I also do not keep the names of family or friends in my records. Thanks ask for Joe. 949-340-4900
Hi Joe, on a plumbing forum, a guy had a 5 year old Uponor problem with a dozen leaks or so. He uploaded pictures of several sections (all Uponor white), some were badly yellowed and others were white and looked new. He was on a municipal supply so I'm sure the chlorine/ammonia was an issue, but I'm having trouble reconciling the fact that only some of his pipe was yellowed and cracked and other sections were like new. Since all the pipe was exposed to the same water, this suggests to me that some batches must be more susceptible to water chemistry than others. Thoughts?
Is Your intuition that some batches are better than others Correct? Yes you are correct!!! we ran into that while I was removing PB plastic pipe from 32,000 homes under Cox V Shell. polybutylene class action.
When the pipe is in a roll. Riding around in bed of truck or just outside. The outter pipe gets uv destruction. Then inner rolls get protection from uv. So you get some new looking pipe and old in same roll. All of this examples have u v exposure. Maybe not in the house. But storage before. Maybe. We use chlorine here. I use thick brass fittings. Those plastic ones are plastic.
@@pjplumber2146 I had that thought on issues with new construction - sometimes the house is plumbed well before the walls are done and who knows how long the UV exposure was, but that didn't seem mesh with houses that were repiped after they were built and had problems later. You would think plumbers (like Integrity) would know not to keep rolls of new pipe exposed, but nothing can be discounted at this point that's for sure. I always make sure my pipe is NEVER exposed to UV and all pipe in unfinished basements get "pool noodles" insulation to block from indirect sunlight and bright light fixtures.
Every time I buy uponor pipe it comes with a white thicker plastic that is somewhat UV resident and when I repipe a house I automatically install a whole house filtration system so far no issues at all I mean none with uponor so maybe the ranked number one repipe should start installing filtration systems and he wouldn’t have to repipe them a second time but that’s just my thoughts. Think about it instead of bashing a pipe you used before you switched to zurn I’m not going to bash zurn because it is a great pipe I use it aswell but it is definitely more ridged and frankly harder to install than uponor and if installed properly with a filtration system both are great pipes and will last a very long time. Your just a basher and don’t seem to install your repipes with the customers best interest. Just grow up and admit that if you would have installed a filtration system your customers would not be having a pipe issue.
@@plumbbuild6517 Not speaking for Integrity, but it's not clear that it's purely a water issue despite what Integrity says. If you read my comment above it's clear that there is more going on with Uponor than just water. Also, there seems to be no issue with other manufacturers of PEX A at this point. With all the anecdotal stories I've read, I would put my money on a batch issue that might work on well water, but not on chlorinated municipal supply. And finally, while we all have heard of people being struck by lighting or attacked by sharks, how many people have actually seen this? The Uponor issue seems very isolated to a very small percentage of their pipe, but the homes that get one leak get dozens. Uponor definitely knows the answer but are being (understandably) tight lipped. One more thing - Integrity gives a lifetime warranty of their repipes (supposedly), and if they have to repipe a whole house for free, I could understand their annoyance if not anger with Uponor. I'm giving Integrity a pass on their passion for now.
Ok this answers my question in one of your other videos about Uponor vs Zurn. But I thought only PEX-A could be expanded. ?? Will expansion of PEX-B not weaken the wall integrity at all?? My mind is exploding a bit at the moment...
I just replaced 8-year old (installed 2014) Uponor Pex-A (red color) because the tubing developed cracks at EVERY SINGLE FITTING in the hot water side, which I learned after doing a lot of research is now part of a class action lawsuit. Interesting that this house is on well water, not city water with chlorine so Uponor reacts poorly with a variety of water sources apparently. Water sprayed all over the joists, subfloor, walls. It was a disaster in an relatively new house. I could not believe that this product had such a short lifespan. I'm a general contractor and Uponor has been touted as the greatest thing ever, EVERYBODY uses it, but its going to destroy a lot of houses in the next few years as all that piping installed up until the lawsuit and recall deteriorates and starts leaking.
From the comments one would think PEX exposed to even a moment of UV would be like a vampire in sunlight. Why wouldn't they use a UV resistant packaging if it is so sensitive?
Hi Ryan. Did you Know that the Breakpoint Chlorination Etch's and leached toxic copper into you and your family in every copper system you have ever used?
$10k to repipe a house? A average house? Here in Washington State you have to be a certified Plumber to do repipes! Look what that water is doing to your brain! Don't worry about the pipe! Local 32 Proud 3rd gen plumber!
Merflex Pex C is the best overall pipe in my honest opinion.... Its F1960(cold expansion) with a 5006 rating ...... Pex C has been banished along with Nibco's reputation due to the actions of CPI Dura Pex, all Nibco pex made in the twenty-teens is as durable as any other product made during the same time.....
Any plastic pipe can be damaged by rodents. What you can do for your plastic sections is to get a garden sprayer and fill it halfway with white ivory liquid soap and half water. Spray the plastic pipes completely with this mixture. It will dry on the pipe, not hurt the pipe, and the taste is bitter so the rodents won't chew on it.
Well that means that the best thing you can use is copper but pro press. And they are absolutely right about putting a filter right before your water comes in to your house
I repipe Homes every day that have Type L copper in them that are six years old. Copper is not copper any more. It is made with hot washed recycled copper from china.
@@mattek519yeah a part of me thinks he is exaggerating. Have you ever seen any pinhole leaks in your Pex a from uponor? How long have you had your pex for?
hated to see this built a house been about four years,after watching this went up in the attic and noticed the white connector bands are turning yellow and the red is changing color.
Because in the future every one every where is going to lie to the public about when it was discontinued each for their own agenda. I am going to settle all the future propaganda right now. I bought the last of it so when it needs to be examined in the future I will be the only beside the factory that still possess some.
I am sorry to hear that. We are striving for better products and better technology in the near future. That being said Canada makes the best 1/4 turn valves in the world. Dahl valves.
Before you trust everything this guy says, look up the complaints on his company. The F rating with the BBB and the many, many complaints about the quality of his work and his attitude towards customers says everything. How many re-pipe jobs did he do with Uponor prior to his latest Zurn PEX-B craze? The more videos I watch of this guy the more I can see it in his personality. Sadly, this comment will add to his "engagement" metrics, but this will be the last video of his I watch.
Breakpoint chlorination will require all copper pipe houses to be repiped in the future. Chlorine and the ammonia in the water are etching/leaching the copper pipe from the inside out.
Sure is 10k probably 8k profits. Rodents love chewing on plastic. Your so wrong buddy. Are you really a licensed plumber??? must be licensed to plumb in the US and since it’s regulated by the health dept. The plumber protects the health of the nation. Copper piping in chicago still going strong plus we don’t use ammonia just chlorine. There’s a reason why plastic piping for domestic/portable water is illegal in chicago. As mentioned above soldering is a skill. No wonder pex piping lawsuits are all over the south. They always look for cheapest way out.
@@kchicago64 There are other things that are illegal in Chicago too but that doesn’t stop the city from having some of the worst statistics in the nation. Btw if rats in a home are a concern for PEX then you have more to worry about than them chewing up pipes. Lol
I use Zurn Pex B. That being said. I am testing a new Pex line ASAP. I got a call from a new company and told them I would test the product for them. What part of the country are you in?
@@shenoyglobal Hi Ganesh. I must apologize. I have severe vertigo and it jumbles my thoughts and confuses me. Zurn Pex B is what I used in my house it is my preferred material at this time. Uponor Pex A is the pipe that is having troubles right now and I do not recommend it.
1. Why didn't you say what organization rated you #1 for 18 years? Was it a national organization or your wife? 2. It appears that you have a bone to pick/ax to grind with UPINOR PEX piping. My guess is that you are having to re pipe a lot of the jobs you did over the years using UPINOR PEX piping. You mention all the problems with UPINOR red, blue, and clear. You do not bother to mention or compare all the problems with ZERN piping such as cracking in cold weather, lack of flexibility, and manufacturing defects. You put out one video that mentions this but why not admit that all PEX pipe has problems over the long haul? You failed to mention that mice, rats, and squirrels love to chew on any PEX piping. 3. If you are such a famous re piper, then why don't you re pipe with a product that has withstood the test of time and that has been used for generations with no major problems? I'm talking about type M copper pipe above ground. I'm sure you could argue against copper, but given all the long term problems with any brand PEX that we may not even know about yet , then why would you continue to re pipe with it? .
You made the claim in the previous video that Zurn has twice the bursting pressure of Uponor (500psi vs 1000psi) but when you look at Zurn's website and bring up the Technical Specification Sheet and Installation Guides and compare it to Uponor they have the exact same usage ratings, no difference. Zurn 160psi/73f, 100psi/180f, 80psi/200f. Uponor 80psi/200f, 100psi, 180psi/73.4f (I doubt that .4 is different on Zurn, it's just Uponor being special). Zurn themselves in the Installation Guide claim a bursting strength of 625psi at room temperature (which is probably that 73.4f I'd guess) Yet why aren't they rating their pipe 5 degrees or 5 psi more resilient? I understand you're the little dutch boy holding his finger in the dike that is Uponor's future bankruptcy but why isn't Zurn backing you up with laboratory tests? Sounds like a marketing win for them if their piping is superior physically and chemically. As for the Chlorine vs Chloramine you're probably 100% accurate on that. It sounds like the sort of chemistry change the government would do without properly testing the most popular manufacturers of plumbing, they'd only make sure it passes for the ones that donate to them.
I made a pressure device and busted the pipe in my office. I do not care about plumbing codes minimum standards. All Pex pipe manufacturers just have to pass the codes minimum standards so they all say the same minimum standards on their websites and on the side of their pipe. Zurn just states that they are 23% stronger Than Pex A. My test results Pex A 480psi . Zurn Pex B 1000 psi.
@@JoeLudlow That's why I'm wondering why Zurn doesn't put their name behind being *above* minimum code. Just because the code says it has to survive 80 psi at 200f doesn't mean you can't claim greater resilience. Instead they make the same legal claims as Uponor and won't back it up even though in the same breath they claim to be superior. It just sounds like their marketing and technical material was ghost written by lawyers and not engineers. This might explain why Uponor is *everywhere* when you search for expandable pex and sold in the big box stores while Zurn isn't even sold in the small speciality plumbing stores except one every 50 miles.
@@Trahloc The pluming code does not allow them to stamp their pipe with any info that is above minimum standards. The code only alows the companies to inform the public that they have met the minimum standards.
@@JoeLudlow Have a reference I can look up? I can only find legislation that says must meet or exceed minimum plumbing standards. I can't figure out a search term to find evidence saying they can *only* publish minimum standards. Edit: To expand on that. Freedom of Speech applies to corporations as well. It's illegal for the government to silence a corporation if they want to release an addendum to their technical specification showing testing that their product exceeds the minimal standard. Sure they can require the pipe itself only show the minimal, but that has nothing to do with their technical spec sheets or any addendums they choose to add. National Security concerns are subservient to the First Amendment, just look back at the "RSA paper" being published in a physical journal. I doubt plumbing specs are anywhere near as sensitive as end to end encryption.
As a chemist and former municipal water treatment operator, not all water systems use chloramines. Chloramines are usually added if a water treatment facility puts out too many THMs.
As someone who has done a few repairs to the UPONOR PEX-B, it developed micro-cracks near the crimp rings. IMO this is due to the smaller percentage of cross-linking during the extrusion and or polyethylene polymerization process. This is a very informative PEX-A video, thank you.
We need more guys like you! Your a genuine person. Thank you!!!
So what pex pipe would you recommend today are using for yourself? Thanks....
CHECK WITH YOUR WATER COMPANY. Not all water companies use chloramine. It is not required by federal law. According to the EPA “The Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) gives individual states the opportunity to set and enforce their own drinking water standards if the standards are at a minimum as stringent as EPA's national standards.” Individual states set their standards and the water companies determine how to meet those standards. My water company in Alabama confirmed that they use bleach to disinfect the water. They will not use chlorine gas because it’s too expensive and dangerous to handle. They also will not use chloramine either because bleach is an adequate primary disinfectant and there’s no need for a secondary disinfectant like chloramine. Mr. Ludlow may work in areas that use chloramine but not all areas do. The most important question is why do those companies use chloramine at all when better solutions are used elsewhere?
great point- ludlow should present all the facts instead of trying to scare everyone
Even if your municipality doesn't use chloramines now, they might in the future. I also am not convinced it's a chloramine issue by itself. I think it's a batch issue with Uponor in that some batches were more prone to chemical burn from chloramine than others. There have been issues with people on well water experiencing failure, and wells don't have chloramine. Someone else commented that it might be some Uponor that is stored in warehouses in bright light for months at a time that might have damaged some pipe long before it was ever installed. Too much unknown at this point.
Ammonia as a strongly alkaline solution destroys PEX-a completely, because ammonia sucks out all oxygen from peroxides as cross-linking agents in PEX-a pipes production.
But PEX-a withstands against chlorine as a disinfection additive used before providing new standards.
Thank you very much. I saw this channel as I sat down to order PEX-A from the web. I have copper pipes that are failing. This is a DIY project. Before I make an otherwise foolish purchase, THE big question that I have is what about well water with NO additives? Will the Pex hold up?
Thank God for honest plumbers like you willing to share your time, knowledge and experience. Disturbing how our government mandates these additives to the public water supply. If it chemically reacts with polyethylene this way, what does it do inside humans?
Maybe we will soon need to plumb houses end-to-end in stainless steel.
From the stainless we will get poisoned by hexavalent chromium.
Everywhere around me uses chlorine. With that said pex a does not like aun light. So some basements have a lot of light and open ceilings. That can make a difference. I am putting pex a in my home this fall. Im not worried about it. My town uses chlorine plus i have a charcoal filter that gets rid of it anyway. Ill also be putting R19 over my water pipes to keep them out of the sun and help to keep the temperature the same.
In central Texas most of the new house construction have uponor pex A with no issues.
yep… no replies on this one either… seems he doesn’t reply to “positive” testimony.. hmmmm
He's a liar
why would the compression bands turn yellow? no water or ammonia would have been degrading them. Was this in direct sun or florescent light? @2:00
EXACTLY!!!!!! … i thought i was the ONLY one on here that noticed that…. that means the degradation would have went through 3 layers of material mysteriously…. where NO WATER exists🧐
Good question, he should read his comments and answer this
Its fabricated because he's a sour old man who couldn't make it as a plumber😊
Thank you so much. You are telling the truth. Uponor doesn't sale anymore. Only through 3rd party
Thanks for the info joe, I talked with you awhile back to discuss a heating project I was going to do. I am thinking maybe to just stick with old school copper pipe to do my project. It's a shame what they are putting in our water. Most plumbing supply houses near me and plumbers don't even know about the pex products. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
You are welcome and have a great day.
Thanks for your work, because of you I'm going to repipe my home with Zurn B
Hi Tony. Zurn is not perfect but it is the best option available at this time.
Big mistake
I work for a water agency in Southern Cal. We use chlorine. If chloramine does this to this type of pex how does it deteriorate the outside of theb pipe that has no contact with the water.
I have a HALO 5 whole house filtering the water before the house, will that help prevent these types of issues?
I have removed Uponor Pex A from homes that have whole house filters.
I live in North Carolina and I bought my house march of 2020 and it was built at the end of 2019 new construction. All the pipe in my house is uponor pex a. There are 300 homes in my Developement with this pipe. So you are telling me we are all tucked in 7 years?
You'll be fine.
Sorry for the late reply I am getting very old. Your home will have Red, White and blue pipes. someone in your development will have a failure. When that happens make sure you gather all the proper evidence or you will lose your own case. The first leaks are usually in the Red or White pipes in the garage or down stairs bath/Laundry. call me when it happens because the warranty rules are going to go threw changes now that the failures are increasing.
find out if your water supplier uses chloramine
I'm in Ga as a plumber and we also see a bunch of leaks in red pex/pex A. Not exactly 7 years but definitely seen it even sooner than 7
Youll be fine. Thid guy us just butthurt
You can always install a 5 stage RO System or a RO DI system to the main water line.
Please tell the public what a whole house RO unit cost for a 2 story 3 bath 2,000 sf home coast and are you aware that it is illegall to run RO water in copper pipes in a Home or a water purification store in all plumbing codes.
What if the reverse osmosis system is underneath your kitchen sink after all the copper lines? Then the copper can't leach into the system as long as there's pex going from the drinking tap and the ice maker, right?
How would this apply to a house with a well? I have been using Pex a but I don’t have the chemicals like in a municipal system. Would I be ok?
Hi K H. you can have the well water profesional tested and then configure the water purification system set up accordingly.
my house in Canada is 22years old with wirsbo pex A the cold water pipe is still white/translucent the hot water pex A has changed to a light tan/translucent.recently installed four 20x4.5 inch big blue filter canisters running a sediment two carbon block filters and one heavy metal filter which also has a fair amount granular carbon in it stripping out all the chlorine before going to the pex headers and piping
Thanks joe,
How does this apply to well water? Obviously all wells are different, but no added chlorine.
P.S.- all pex-a went back for 400' of Zurn. We appreciate what you do for the community.
I have the same question. I hope to build a new home in the next few years and was planning on Pex-A We have very soft well water. Thanks for the education.
Hi @@burrowsal. Please call with any questions that you may have
You'd still need to have your water tested but it shouldnt naturally have any thing that should damage pex a unless sunlight hits it.
Don’t let the light touch pipe. Keep covered while I’m storage. Artificial light does give off some u v. Keep that in mind when stacked in a warehouse for a year or longer. Even the manufacture stacks the rolls in a very well lit facility. 30 days is the limit for sunlight. I still see it concrete waiting for framing. Exposed to sun. I’m the only one around refusing to put this stuff in concrete. Hvac ducts go somewhere. We following them. Better insulate properly.
Hi Mr. Ludlow. Does pex a uponor with oxygen barrier have the same problems?
funny i dont see any answers for well water without those chemicals
What do you think of Shark Bite pile?
Clamp rings are just as yellow as the pipe in the 7 year old example he held up, the water didn't reach the rings so how/why did they age/ yellow? This kills the internal damage theory
It doesn't really. PEX is known to be transparent to some chemicals, which is why it should not be painted. If the chloramine gets into the pipe, it might move through the pipe and the expansion ring.
All colleges have spectrometers, and chlorine will spike easily. Call a local one and have a student run the test in the rings. I'll beat it isn't there
@@paulmcdermott5475 My brother is a research chemist, if anyone wants to send me some samples I'll have him run a full spectral analysis on it.
@John-Del you're a re-piper, you have plenty of samples. Why would you not have that analysis done already if that's literally what you brother does?
@@paulmcdermott5475 What makes you think I'm a re-piper???? I am not even a plumber, but I have done my own plumbing in many income properties I have owned (as well as heating and electrical work). The only thing I don't do is my own carpentry. I have personally used Uponor but have not seen a failed Uponor pipe ever, and I doubt that most professional plumbers have. Despite the fact this failure with Uponor is certainly happening, it affects a tiny fraction of the pipe they've sold.
so why did the ring turn yellow.... from the light so what do i use for my repipe i have a well that is low on ph
In the future I hope the testing lab for the class action will micro inspect the rings for chlormine's in the rings. Because the White and Blue pipes ring are turning yellow also. That means that the chlorine and ammonia in the water can penetrate the A extrusion method pipe and rings.
I appreciate your vids and insight, but I think it’s odd to assume the new clear pipe will fail in the same manner the old did. If they’re having a liability nightmare why would they just change the color and nothing with the process/material?
You claim they fail from break point chlorination, but do you have any lab reports indicating this is the most likely cause of failure? Any fracture or chemical analysis performed? Did uponor say it was break point chlorination? With all due respect, I think they’re going to be the closest to knowing actual root cause of failure being they’re paying claims left and right for this failure. Would love if you could share those in a video.
Companies are incentivized to create robust products, or liability/claims/brand image will lead to bankruptcy. All the best
Can you install a whole house water filter treatment system to prevent this issue???
My problem is. How do you separate a Liquid from another Liquid? Can someone please explain, what in a water filer can do this!
@@JoeLudlow -- they sell special whole house water filters that are designed to remove chloramine. They aren't cheap but they are available!
Sounds like a filter is needed to clean water, if your on a well then its fine right?.
My problem is. How do you separate a Liquid from another Liquid? Can someone please explain what in a water filer can do this! On well water I have no experience. sorry!
So, what's the best material to repipe?
Is apallo pex a having the same issues it’s a homedepot product ?
Thx so much u save my ass I'm about to diy install the pipe for my boiler
Wish I knew this before I did my bathroom with Uponor. I don't know when the last batch was but I bought the color pipe in November of 2020.
This man is feeding you misinformation
Joe, you obviously don't recommend PEX for repiping. So, what do you recommend?
Do you think this problem is typical for all Uponor installed? Or did they sell some bad batches with quality issues?
Uponor Pex A has a problem. That being said yes some batches are better than others. Yes both are true.
It's ok, the cracks have memory and will contract back into the correct shape. Just give it some time.
Lol
🤣
I cannot find where anyone talks about Apollo PEX A products good or bad. Parts readily available at the local big box store. Joe, I have watched about all the UA-cam vids you have, and could I get some insight on Apollo PEX A Products please? Is it a bad product? Waste of Money? I'll be replacing gray polybutylene piping in a Double wide mobile home.
What do you think about F1960 PEX-A branded by Shark Bite sold at Lowe’s?
Keep them coming please.
This should not be an issue if you have well water that does not contain Ammonia. Furthermore, many local water sources use Chlorine and not Ammonia - Therefore, I wouldn't be concerned about using Pex A unless known damaging chemicals are flowing through your pipes. UV Damage is one method that can degrade plastic pipes as well and cause yellowing/hardening. Just my 2 cents.
yes UV is never mentioned in his videos....if you read manf instructions they tell you to cover any UV exposed pex pipe with insulation
As a plumber for 22 years. My most vivid experiences are those people that have learned the wrong way. Had success doing it the wrong way. Because people paid but rarely called back. People will pay you to leave. Then they never have to see you again. This is a vast majority. Don’t base your level of respect due to financial situation. A lot of plumbers going to in home service from new work. They forgot during new work. That those clients don’t know the plumbing company name much less be able to call that specific person back and let him see his fuck ups and bad philosophy. It’s normally the tech 15-20 years later. So don’t always believe grey bearded plumbers. This pipe has been sun bleached and he thinks you can use expansion fittings on b pex. Turn the channel and unsubscribe. Don’t believe everything you hear. When in doubt. Read up on manufacture specs.
you think this is just fearmongering to promote his own manufacturer?
Zurn B is expansion rated, so at least that part of your statement is incorrect... Which makes the rest of it suspect.
Yikes I would like to hear your response from Matt risinger who's been praising Uponor A for a while inspiring a lot of people to use it. How long have we known this information ?
And what is the alternative
When you mention class action lawsuits, outside water heaters or water storage behind walls a bad idea, he scoffs. Matt has drifted sadly.
He just pushes anything he is given - I really try not to use anything these influencers push because you know they are just salesman trying to make a sale what happens after you are SOL they could care less - I just got Pex-A expander because one of my Commerical customer has a 14 story building done out of Pex-A and there have already been failures mostly at joint through substandard install - plus it is an off brand
what about using Pex a with a well system with a filter?
Why would they put chromene in the water when it is a thyroid disrupter
Chloramine is banned in the EU... Now if that's what Chloramine is doing to pipes... imagine what it does to your body?
So is hydrofluorosilicic acid, but most US systems feed it to you.
What if I have well water good to go?
With PEX and copper being susceptible to chloramines, wouldn't it be prudent to use CPVC? Even with getting brittle as it ages it doesn't lose it's structural integrity.
This sounds like it might be specific to your community. Here in Florida in my community chloramine is not used and we do not have this issue. Chloramine is not required by federal law. We have been installing Uponor for over 20 years and have not had a failure. We have used them in Recirc Systems, Manifold Systems, and Standard Piping Systems.
Thank you I had no idea of this until I watched this video. So is this only for Uponor Pex-A other other brands too?
I will show the results of other brands as they come in.
If your company re-piped my home like 5 years ago. Do we have the failing A or were you using the Zurn B? Are you guys able to come and expose some pipe to verify ? Thanks.
Please send me your first and last name, address and phone number. I will check and see if we repiped your house.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc it was actually my parents house, they spoke to you over the phone 👍🏻. Thanks for the reply.
@Integrity Repipe inc
I think he was asking for a friend, yet probably already knows that your company infact, did do the work & REALLY like I, wants to know the date/time frame that Uponor stoped selling the faulty pipe. 🤙🏽 Thanks
Hi@@David-fk6yg. Please understand that I need whoever owns the property to call me. I need First and last name address and phone number. so I can check my records. No one has called me!! I also do not keep the names of family or friends in my records. Thanks ask for Joe. 949-340-4900
Hi Joe, on a plumbing forum, a guy had a 5 year old Uponor problem with a dozen leaks or so. He uploaded pictures of several sections (all Uponor white), some were badly yellowed and others were white and looked new. He was on a municipal supply so I'm sure the chlorine/ammonia was an issue, but I'm having trouble reconciling the fact that only some of his pipe was yellowed and cracked and other sections were like new. Since all the pipe was exposed to the same water, this suggests to me that some batches must be more susceptible to water chemistry than others. Thoughts?
Is Your intuition that some batches are better than others Correct? Yes you are correct!!! we ran into that while I was removing PB plastic pipe from 32,000 homes under Cox V Shell. polybutylene class action.
When the pipe is in a roll. Riding around in bed of truck or just outside. The outter pipe gets uv destruction. Then inner rolls get protection from uv. So you get some new looking pipe and old in same roll. All of this examples have u v exposure. Maybe not in the house. But storage before. Maybe. We use chlorine here. I use thick brass fittings. Those plastic ones are plastic.
@@pjplumber2146 I had that thought on issues with new construction - sometimes the house is plumbed well before the walls are done and who knows how long the UV exposure was, but that didn't seem mesh with houses that were repiped after they were built and had problems later. You would think plumbers (like Integrity) would know not to keep rolls of new pipe exposed, but nothing can be discounted at this point that's for sure. I always make sure my pipe is NEVER exposed to UV and all pipe in unfinished basements get "pool noodles" insulation to block from indirect sunlight and bright light fixtures.
Every time I buy uponor pipe it comes with a white thicker plastic that is somewhat UV resident and when I repipe a house I automatically install a whole house filtration system so far no issues at all I mean none with uponor so maybe the ranked number one repipe should start installing filtration systems and he wouldn’t have to repipe them a second time but that’s just my thoughts.
Think about it instead of bashing a pipe you used before you switched to zurn I’m not going to bash zurn because it is a great pipe I use it aswell but it is definitely more ridged and frankly harder to install than uponor and if installed properly with a filtration system both are great pipes and will last a very long time.
Your just a basher and don’t seem to install your repipes with the customers best interest.
Just grow up and admit that if you would have installed a filtration system your customers would not be having a pipe issue.
@@plumbbuild6517 Not speaking for Integrity, but it's not clear that it's purely a water issue despite what Integrity says. If you read my comment above it's clear that there is more going on with Uponor than just water. Also, there seems to be no issue with other manufacturers of PEX A at this point. With all the anecdotal stories I've read, I would put my money on a batch issue that might work on well water, but not on chlorinated municipal supply. And finally, while we all have heard of people being struck by lighting or attacked by sharks, how many people have actually seen this? The Uponor issue seems very isolated to a very small percentage of their pipe, but the homes that get one leak get dozens. Uponor definitely knows the answer but are being (understandably) tight lipped. One more thing - Integrity gives a lifetime warranty of their repipes (supposedly), and if they have to repipe a whole house for free, I could understand their annoyance if not anger with Uponor. I'm giving Integrity a pass on their passion for now.
Sorry if I sound ignorant but is this all pex a or just that brand? I have to have my house repiped and am trying to choose the best option
Ok this answers my question in one of your other videos about Uponor vs Zurn.
But I thought only PEX-A could be expanded. ?? Will expansion of PEX-B not weaken the wall integrity at all??
My mind is exploding a bit at the moment...
Initially, only PEX A was rated for F1960 expansion. Today, PEX B and some C (from what I've read) is rated for expansion.
I just replaced 8-year old (installed 2014) Uponor Pex-A (red color) because the tubing developed cracks at EVERY SINGLE FITTING in the hot water side, which I learned after doing a lot of research is now part of a class action lawsuit. Interesting that this house is on well water, not city water with chlorine so Uponor reacts poorly with a variety of water sources apparently. Water sprayed all over the joists, subfloor, walls. It was a disaster in an relatively new house. I could not believe that this product had such a short lifespan. I'm a general contractor and Uponor has been touted as the greatest thing ever, EVERYBODY uses it, but its going to destroy a lot of houses in the next few years as all that piping installed up until the lawsuit and recall deteriorates and starts leaking.
From the comments one would think PEX exposed to even a moment of UV would be like a vampire in sunlight. Why wouldn't they use a UV resistant packaging if it is so sensitive?
What can I say copper is the gold standard of plumbing for a lot of applications!
Hi Ryan. Did you Know that the Breakpoint Chlorination Etch's and leached toxic copper into you and your family in every copper system you have ever used?
@@IntegrityRepipeInc then what’s the option…
$10k to repipe a house? A average house?
Here in Washington State you have to be a certified Plumber to do repipes!
Look what that water is doing to your brain!
Don't worry about the pipe!
Local 32 Proud 3rd gen plumber!
Hows that Apollo Pex A that sold in king county HDs doing with local water? any failures you see so far?
I'm on well. I think I will be good with Pex A
Merflex Pex C is the best overall pipe in my honest opinion.... Its F1960(cold expansion) with a 5006 rating ...... Pex C has been banished along with Nibco's reputation due to the actions of CPI Dura Pex, all Nibco pex made in the twenty-teens is as durable as any other product made during the same time.....
My house is partial iron pipe and partial copper and plastic. Fortunately we do not have rats, but what is the potential damage to PEX by rodents?
Any plastic pipe can be damaged by rodents. What you can do for your plastic sections is to get a garden sprayer and fill it halfway with white ivory liquid soap and half water. Spray the plastic pipes completely with this mixture. It will dry on the pipe, not hurt the pipe, and the taste is bitter so the rodents won't chew on it.
Will uponor hold up in a home with a well ?
And where can I order zurn from im in far Northern California and can’t find it nowhere.
Will Uponor be responsible or the contractor for the failures??
It depends on the failure and your ability to document that failure. They will have requirements you must meet
Well that means that the best thing you can use is copper but pro press. And they are absolutely right about putting a filter right before your water comes in to your house
I repipe Homes every day that have Type L copper in them that are six years old. Copper is not copper any more. It is made with hot washed recycled copper from china.
This sucks, I just replped my house with uponor in California. Money down the drain , I regret not going with copper
Man you have nothing to worry abouyt. This guy is a clow
@@mattek519yeah a part of me thinks he is exaggerating. Have you ever seen any pinhole leaks in your Pex a from uponor? How long have you had your pex for?
Do you have a different recommendation. Does Apollo PEX-A have the same issue?
I have never examined Apollo Pex A but I will in the near future. sorry
How does Rehau hold up?
hated to see this built a house been about four years,after watching this went up in the attic and noticed the white connector bands are turning yellow and the red is changing color.
Yes. Please give us the hard truths.
Hey Joe, what if you have well water. Is this still a concern?
Have your water professionally tested and build the filter system based on their findings.
So if your on well water this won't be an issue?
Watch out for this guy. He has an agenda.
So what is the alternative????
Dude why is it your doing the repipe to start with?
It's the water!
It's the Water Dummy!
Good info thank you.....
Why did you buy that last stock of pipe then?
If you know it's failing.
Because in the future every one every where is going to lie to the public about when it was discontinued each for their own agenda. I am going to settle all the future propaganda right now. I bought the last of it so when it needs to be examined in the future I will be the only beside the factory that still possess some.
So joe you do not recommend pex a would u prefer pex b
What are you repiping with today?
Ya you got good orders from those houses. Now on you will change these and next man will do it again. Mafia of all kinds are here in canada.
I am sorry to hear that. We are striving for better products and better technology in the near future. That being said Canada makes the best 1/4 turn valves in the world. Dahl valves.
Does pex al pex have the same problem, Joe
Thanks Joe, I just partially repiped my house from polyB. To pex B... I am glad I picked the right one.
Hi Levener the future will prove you made a good decision.
Very informative…. Have you seen the labels placed on the pex and fittings stating contains chemicals that may cause cancer per California?
What problems were you having with the existing Qest??
@@JL-hf6qxeverything in California causes cancer except for the homeless and drugs.
Before you trust everything this guy says, look up the complaints on his company. The F rating with the BBB and the many, many complaints about the quality of his work and his attitude towards customers says everything. How many re-pipe jobs did he do with Uponor prior to his latest Zurn PEX-B craze? The more videos I watch of this guy the more I can see it in his personality. Sadly, this comment will add to his "engagement" metrics, but this will be the last video of his I watch.
Everything degrades
Can't beat copper pipe and a sweated joints. This stuff made plumbers job to easy and they make money though the wazoo with this stuff.
Breakpoint chlorination will require all copper pipe houses to be repiped in the future. Chlorine and the ammonia in the water are etching/leaching the copper pipe from the inside out.
Sure is 10k probably 8k profits. Rodents love chewing on plastic. Your so wrong buddy. Are you really a licensed plumber??? must be licensed to plumb in the US and since it’s regulated by the health dept. The plumber protects the health of the nation. Copper piping in chicago still going strong plus we don’t use ammonia just chlorine. There’s a reason why plastic piping for domestic/portable water is illegal in chicago.
As mentioned above soldering is a skill. No wonder pex piping lawsuits are all over the south. They always look for cheapest way out.
@@kchicago64 There are other things that are illegal in Chicago too but that doesn’t stop the city from having some of the worst statistics in the nation. Btw if rats in a home are a concern for PEX then you have more to worry about than them chewing up pipes. Lol
What is your solution ?
I use Zurn Pex B. That being said. I am testing a new Pex line ASAP. I got a call from a new company and told them I would test the product for them. What part of the country are you in?
@@JoeLudlow need for Florida
@@JoeLudlow does that mean Zurn pex A has similar issues?
@@shenoyglobal Hi Ganesh. I must apologize. I have severe vertigo and it jumbles my thoughts and confuses me.
Zurn Pex B is what I used in my house it is my preferred material at this time. Uponor Pex A is the pipe that is having troubles right now and I do not recommend it.
Is he a repiper? That wasn't clear...
1. Why didn't you say what organization rated you #1 for 18 years? Was it a national organization or your wife?
2. It appears that you have a bone to pick/ax to grind with UPINOR PEX piping. My guess is that you are having to
re pipe a lot of the jobs you did over the years using UPINOR PEX piping. You mention all the problems with
UPINOR red, blue, and clear. You do not bother to mention or compare all the problems with ZERN piping such as cracking
in cold weather, lack of flexibility, and manufacturing defects. You put out one video that mentions this but why not admit
that all PEX pipe has problems over the long haul? You failed to mention that mice, rats, and squirrels love to chew on any PEX piping.
3. If you are such a famous re piper, then why don't you re pipe with a product that has withstood the test of time and that has been used for generations with no major problems?
I'm talking about type M copper pipe above ground. I'm sure you could argue against copper, but given all the long term problems with any brand PEX that we may not even know about yet , then why would you continue to re pipe with it?
.
Man the butthurt you got for pex a is incredible. What happened between you and uponor 😂
I love how arrogant u sound!
You made the claim in the previous video that Zurn has twice the bursting pressure of Uponor (500psi vs 1000psi) but when you look at Zurn's website and bring up the Technical Specification Sheet and Installation Guides and compare it to Uponor they have the exact same usage ratings, no difference. Zurn 160psi/73f, 100psi/180f, 80psi/200f. Uponor 80psi/200f, 100psi, 180psi/73.4f (I doubt that .4 is different on Zurn, it's just Uponor being special). Zurn themselves in the Installation Guide claim a bursting strength of 625psi at room temperature (which is probably that 73.4f I'd guess) Yet why aren't they rating their pipe 5 degrees or 5 psi more resilient? I understand you're the little dutch boy holding his finger in the dike that is Uponor's future bankruptcy but why isn't Zurn backing you up with laboratory tests? Sounds like a marketing win for them if their piping is superior physically and chemically.
As for the Chlorine vs Chloramine you're probably 100% accurate on that. It sounds like the sort of chemistry change the government would do without properly testing the most popular manufacturers of plumbing, they'd only make sure it passes for the ones that donate to them.
I made a pressure device and busted the pipe in my office. I do not care about plumbing codes minimum standards. All Pex pipe manufacturers just have to pass the codes minimum standards so they all say the same minimum standards on their websites and on the side of their pipe. Zurn just states that they are 23% stronger Than Pex A. My test results Pex A 480psi . Zurn Pex B 1000 psi.
@@JoeLudlow That's why I'm wondering why Zurn doesn't put their name behind being *above* minimum code. Just because the code says it has to survive 80 psi at 200f doesn't mean you can't claim greater resilience. Instead they make the same legal claims as Uponor and won't back it up even though in the same breath they claim to be superior. It just sounds like their marketing and technical material was ghost written by lawyers and not engineers.
This might explain why Uponor is *everywhere* when you search for expandable pex and sold in the big box stores while Zurn isn't even sold in the small speciality plumbing stores except one every 50 miles.
@@Trahloc The pluming code does not allow them to stamp their pipe with any info that is above minimum standards. The code only alows the companies to inform the public that they have met the minimum standards.
@@JoeLudlow Have a reference I can look up? I can only find legislation that says must meet or exceed minimum plumbing standards. I can't figure out a search term to find evidence saying they can *only* publish minimum standards.
Edit: To expand on that. Freedom of Speech applies to corporations as well. It's illegal for the government to silence a corporation if they want to release an addendum to their technical specification showing testing that their product exceeds the minimal standard. Sure they can require the pipe itself only show the minimal, but that has nothing to do with their technical spec sheets or any addendums they choose to add. National Security concerns are subservient to the First Amendment, just look back at the "RSA paper" being published in a physical journal. I doubt plumbing specs are anywhere near as sensitive as end to end encryption.
@@JoeLudlow post a video of that test!