Grumman's XF5F Skyrocket
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Between the F4F Wildcat and the F6F Hellcat there was Grumman's Wierd and Wonderful SKYROCKET! Let's learn all about it, what happened to it and how it is related to the F7F Tigercat and Blackhawk Comic Book!! / worldofwarbirds
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With a rate of climb of four thousand feet per minute, it might have been a game changer in the early stages against the zero.
I’m an USN/USMC flight test engineer. I’ve worked a number of Grumman aircraft. To this day we still refer to them as Grumman Ironworks because everything they build is sturdy to say the least.
In the left-overs from an estate sale, my friend recovered 30-odd dog-eared models of WWII era military and racing aircraft,
most sans props, ailerons, rudders, etc. Many of them appear to be hand-crafted kits of wood, foam and gesso... Among them there is
a model of the XF5F Skyrocket, [ missing a few parts ]. A local air museum has some information about this rare bird,
but your video really is great in putting it in context w/ aircraft development during the pre-WWII era of round engines.
Thank you for a beautifully-done presentation.....
I’m glad you enjoyed it as much as I liked making it!
Most excellent video on the Skyrocket , much deserved !!!!😊
Glad you liked it!
The Army Skyrocket looked like a retro warthog..
I always liked the design and the idea of the alt history of it's success as a naval fighter.
I guess that’s what the Blackhawk Comics kind of were!
Cool, man! Glad you mentioned the Blackhawks. HAWKAAA!!
How could I not!
That's what I came here for.
Gosh! I recognized the Blackhawk plane from the first of your program and wondered why the plane wasn't used or famous. Didn't even remember the name of the comic, just the plane. Best Christmas Present - 2 funnybooks and a candy bar!
For the record, the first letter (or two for multi-mission) in the designation is for the mission type. e.g. F for Fighter, O for Observation, S for Scout, B for Bomber, etc. Multi-mission aircraft had two letters, e.g. SBD (Scout Bomber Douglas) or TBF (Torpedo Bomber Grumman).
In a early WWII aviation magazine, I saw an ad for the AT-9, which had a very similar configuration. It was billed as an advanced trainer for multi engine aircraft (bombers?). As I recall that configuration led to a number of problems, including withdrawal from service and scrap heap. Great video. Narragansett Bay
I have a lot of information on this aircraft including technical documents. As I was looking at building a replica of this particular aircraft, but as the long nose variant. If the various Governnent departs had just left Grumman alone to get on with the task at hand this aircraft would have gone to both the Navy and the Marines. It would have been a real game changer. But due to the multiple demands being made and the changes to the original design to meet these needs ruin an excellent aircraft.
Do you have a way to share your information, like scanned onto a web page? That would be great stuff for the world to have access to.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that sees an F5F Skyrocket and thinks, "Blackhawks!"
With that rate of climb and decent speed, it might have been a good fighter.
Its DNA ended up in the F7F, which was supposedly excellent!
I know I'm dating myself here, but I remember the Black Hawks comic books from the early 70's.
I still have a few somewhere...
At last, the ID of the Blackhawk airplanes of my comic-reading youth in 1948-1951 have been clarified! Even my dad didn't know what they were. But they sure taught me and my pals how to draw airplanes. Will Eisner was one of America's greatest comic artists. Those of you who grew up in military families in early Cold War 1 will remember him as the master cartoonist who illustrated the US Army's P.M. magazine. (We're in Cold War 2 now. Lotsa luck, boys, same as I had in the other one.)
I'm glad you liked it and happy that it brought back some Blackhawk memories!
It's a bit like a mini-Beaufighter. I've seen a Beau in a museum, and it is HUGE! So not so much.
I've always thought that the Grumman XF5F was a killer design and I seem to recall seeing a lot about them when I was growing up in the 1960's.💯
Thanks for the comment!
XF5F, the missing piece! Thanks Brian!
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
The first time I'd ever seen an image of the XF5F I immediately though. the Genisus of the Blackhawk comic series started here. the Blackhawks (created in August 1941) operate from a hidden base known only as Blackhawk Island, fly Grumman XF5F Skyrocket fighter aircraft, and shout their battle cry of "Hawk-a-a-a!" as they descend from the skies to fight tyranny and oppression.
Another fine episode, very interesting.
Thanks for sharing and Best Wishes to You and Your Family.
Many thanks!
Kinda reminds me of the Westland Whirlwind.
Yes, I thought the same!
Yup, similar history in a way as well. The Whirlwind looked a lot more ready for prime time IMO though.
Looks like a backwards A-10…
Friendly suggestion. Instead of referring to it as the torque effect exclusively. It's referred to as P factor in aviation. Get that wrong, and your instructor won't let you fly that day. Nice video and really cool plane.
Hi, actually I am a former flight instructor with almost 2000 hours of flight time. It was an editorial decision to lump the concept to "torque", of which most people have a basic understanding, rather than introduce P-Factor which most people don't. Explaining that would've broken up the flow of the video. Thanks for the suggestion and explaining the differences between the two forces will make for a good future short!
@worldofwarbirds Not being critical at all. I just notice people tend not to understand more technical terms. Nice video
I do enjoy these videos thanks.
Blackhawk - Fearless Champions of Freedom!
An excellent video ! Have forgotten the time when I watched it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching! As long as folks are watching them, I'll keep making them!
Great video !!! Hawkaaaaa skreeeeeeeeeee !!!
Super thanks for sharing this video interesting aircraft.👍
Glad you enjoyed it
What about the FM2 wildcat? It came out in late 43,early 44.This aircraft was a F4F,with a 2,000 ho engine,more firepower,and more armor plating for the pilot.Can you imagine the look on the zero pilots faces when at first,they thought it was a F4F,only to be out climbed and out dived,and then blown out of the sky by an IMPOSTER!
Yes, I cover that in my F4F AUDIO episode. I started out as an audio only podcaster and unfortunately that one is only sound. But check it out if you like podcasts!
@@worldofwarbirds Thank you,I will.
Nice to see a video of one of my favorite weird planes!
There’s more to come! If you guys keep watching and liking them, I’ll keep making them!
It has all the components of an a10 just in a different configuration. Move the wing back, and engines to a lengthened fuselage. Blunt nose. It's there. Inspiration for the future
Love it!!! Thank you!
You are so welcome!!
This was incredibly interesting... Thanks!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing this. I've always liked the F5F. It's very much the ultimate expression of Grumman's apparent design language - we don't care if it's pretty as long as it works right, every time. I get that it was always a bit of a compromised design in trying to jam two massive engines onto an airframe small enough to operate from then-current carriers, but that rate of climb is just eye-popping for the time, it was also very good in speed and maneuverability, and I'd imagine the rate of acceleration on throttle changes would be fantastic. But in addition to the spares issue, I can also see the Navy balking at the possible range penalty from two engines drinking avgas simultaneously, and also just the issue of burning THROUGH the carrier's supply of avgas a lot faster, needing more frequent resupplying. But, what could have been.
Many of the ideas behind the F5F ended up in the F7F Tigercat! I will be releasing an audio episode on that Cat through Patreon soon and then for general consumption next week. Sometime after that there will be a video. Enjoy!
👍Thanks for video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A Blackhawk movie featuring the F5 Skyrocket would be awesome!
In a way, it brings to my mind an image of a pod racer from Star Wars 🤔
Several have noticed this!
I had "skyrocket" shoes in 1967(?). They could make me run faster, and jump higher, aaaaaand now you know the rest of the story.
Jimmy got some new shoes! Check out the moves on Jimmy!
Hancock.
Super-Thanks!!
I’m glad you liked it!
Thank you
You're welcome!
Grumman's, avião do Falcão Negro. . . . .
Both are flying in the War Thunder Game
I can’t shake off the impression that there’s compensation in reincarnation :
The NO-NOSE XF-5F
Later gets the most sallying forth nose as the F-7F Tigercat
& with a shape as the XF-5F is burdened with, the « Skyrocket » name is nothing short of ironic !
But I must tip my hat 🧢 twice :
1- its speed for the time despite its shape
2- its shape that belies its name
& its speed
When I saw a photo of it in a magazine of air oddities I thought of a joke !
That’s perhaps why it’s the only
non-feline of the Grumman Family.
Almost looks like a Warthog.
You're the second one today that made that connection!
It looks like an early version of the A-10 Warthog
Seems more like a procurement debacle to me. Easy to fly, a carrier pilot's dream, would have had a low accident rate and a large base of pilots who could fly it, as opposed to the "Ensign Eliminator" Corsair which was barely usable from a carrier deck and required highly-experienced pilots. If the rather underpowered Wildcat could barely hold its own against the Zero, this hot rod would have wiped the floor with Japan's champion. It was rejected out of trivial reasons - the landing gear issue could have been easily fixed, and logistics - it's not like the United States lacked the industrial capacity to produce a mature and well-established engine in any quantity. Another chance missed by the U.S. military before the war, like the Christie suspension for tanks.
4:46 The props on this bird don't look like they counter-rotate. Look at the way the blades are both canted in the same direction. What am I missing here, pilots?
Yes, I've seen that and many have pointed it out. Perhaps at that time the opposite turning engine was not available? We know that for at least some of the test flights, there were counter-rotating props because it in mentionned on the test pilot reports. I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer.
Maybe it’s a plastic model over a diorama, or a model in MSFS or War Thunder. Note it has guns; I don’t think the prototype ever did, prior to turning it over to the Navy and having its paint scheme did. Edit - good catch, I totally missed the prop angle.
Look at the photo at 4:31, you’ll see the props angled such that the left is counter clockwise, the right is clockwise.
Your Video is awsome. Slight suggestion……. Horses come from a stable. Birds come from a nest.
This aircraft always gave the mental image of Popeye. Wonder why….
Thanks
Thanks so much!
On the picture at 4:48 the propellers are not contra rotating ??? S
Looks like it would've made a great ground attack aircraft.
Got to play with them engines on S-58 helos
Could you please do a video on the HE177 greif?
It is certainly on my list!
@@worldofwarbirds thanks
hey that's blackhawk's plane....
Yea! Never knew there was a real plane the blackhawks had.❤
I wonder if they ever plucked those remains out of the sound 🤔
I wondered the same thing!
That is the basis of the Fairchild…. You know it…. A-10.
The 3:03 animation shows propellers rotation direction incorrectly. See the drawing on 3:08. The 4:47 image does not show correct propellers' shapes which supposed to spin opposite directions.
Sorry, it was just a generic GIF showing counter-rotation.
Huh, I didn’t catch the arrows on the drawing.
I don’t think the image at 4:47 is the real deal, as it has guns installed. Maybe an image from WarThunder?
Now this is podracing!
Pretty sure we already had a Blackhawk movie: Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
Of course, Jude Law flew a P-40E with some very nonstandard aftermarket toys on it…
Yes, you are correct! Here's a quote on the film: "The Flying Legion is a homage to pulp magazine and comic book heroes such as G-8 and his Battle Aces, Captain Midnight, and the Blackhawk squadron."
That being said, don't you think they should've used the Skyrocket??
@@worldofwarbirds Tempting, but honestly I'm more of a P-40 guy myself.
Reminds me a bit of the Bristol Beaufighter.
Have you seen my video on the Beau?
@@worldofwarbirdsI've watched a couple on it. Not sure if yours was one of them.
4:50 that plane does not have counter-rotating props
Might be a flight sim model; note it also has guns, don’t think the prototype did, while in the Grumman paint scheme prior to turning it over to the Navy. Nice catch, though.
@@ronjon7942 you're RIGHT on closer inspection it's a digital rendering. Pretty good one, though!
Those were ffing planes😂
Army version looks like the F7F Tigercat
It appears Darth Vadar borrowed from this tail design ;)
As Star Wars was set "A long time ago", maybe Grumman borrowed from Vadar?? Haha
The engines were not "geared" (as stated @3:01) to rotate "the props" in opposite directions, the "whole" portside engine rotated clockwise like the P38 Lightning?? (Its a logistic and maintenance nightmare but...) PS I believe your diagram is in error at 3:03. The props would surely rotate in reverse of what you've shown because you want the vortex coming off the props to go < under the wing toward the fuselage >. See the P38 Lightning. (Standing in front of and facing the plane - The engine to the viewers right rotates clockwise and the engine to the viewers left rotates counter clockwise. (The still photo of the XF5F, at 5:15 confirms this to be the case - look at the prop blades and comments beginning 6:30 confirm my suspicions.)
GREAT VIDEO even tho I have OCD and am a nitpicker for detail. That fault made me the best Progammer/Sys Analyst in my DOD job. I saved taxpayers a bunch of money by doing it right the FIRST time!!! No costly TDY's overseas to fix errors in the field
Trivia addendum:
For 80 some years I have looked for this plane. My uncle gave me a model of it for my birthday in 1941. It was beyond me. Back then model airplanes were umpteen shapes printed on sheets of balsawood that had to be cutout and glued together. I think my dad and uncle Art, actually built it. It got painted orange and hung in a spare room for a long time. Parenthetically, Captain Midnight and "his flying crew" used this plane in the comic book series in WWII. I've never seen any ID till now. Nor did I remember "The Blackhawks" till you mentioned them. (Do I remember right they flew from an island off the coast of Na.zi occupied Norway???)
THANK YOU for answering a few of the open questions from my youth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geared was just term of speech in this case. The rotating prop GIF is just an example of counter rotation, in some aircraft they go one way, in others the other. Thanks for sharing!
They all look like versions of the Gee Bee made by Granville Brothers Aircraft of Springfield, Massachusetts. (I'm not a pilot or know anything about aircraft)
I can see that - there’s some visual similarities there.
Спасибо очень интересно
Très délicate la visibilité pour le pilote avec cet avion au 2 gros moteurs lancés en avant, je pense qu’avec la sortie du légendaire F4U tous les autres projets tombent à l’eau, du moment que juste après les avions à réaction arrivent.
Grumman a perfectionné le design avec le F7F Tigercat, trop tard pour la guerre et bientôt remplacé par les avions à réaction!
If the US had persisted perfecting the F5 the Zero would have been the second best Carrier fighter. And they wouldn’t have been so arrogant, no PH 12/7/41.
Podracer?
I wonder if they were influenced by it!
Grumman, if only you guys had named it Skycat it would have had the success of all your other cats.
Imagine if THAT was the missing element! I'm also a Space Fan and I've been tempted to jump way out of my era and profile the Grumman Apollo Lunar Module: the "Lunar Cat"? the "Moon Cat"?
@@worldofwarbirdsHey, I like that idea! And in other news: I'm currently looking at shelf on other wall where there is a yet unbuilt 1/72 scale kit by Dragon for Apollo 17 lander and rover. On top of that box is a reissue of Airfix's classic 1/76 scale Astronauts. Turns out that 4 leg 2 person thing in that set is based on a proposal by Bell. At same present moment a now 16 year old orange tabby rescued injured 15.5 years ago from side of rural highway is snuggled beside me. Vet thought left rear leg might have to be amputated due to both physical and nerve injury, Grumman still has that leg, walks on it, and even uses it when jumping up on furniture. Truly, a Grumman cat can take hits and keep on flying. 😸
Start building! I had a Revell 1/72 Lancaster on my shelf for two years that my son had given me until a friend kicked my ass and said to start building! Since then I’ve done an A6M3 Zero, He 219 Uhu, and I just finished a DH Mosquito fighter-bomber. Next on deck is a Bristol Beaufighter Mk. 6. It’s a wonderful hobby!
@@worldofwarbirds That kit is in line behind several other projects. Being built currently is a Hobby Boss Easy Kit 1/72 scale Brewster F2A Buffalo to mail to a friend in England to add some "Loud American" yellow wings color to the RAF museum she's making on her railway layout which can be lowered from sewing room ceiling on to her quilting table. British OO model railway scale at 1/76 is far closer to 1/72 scale than is our American HO scale of 1/87. Selected that kit both because it is sturdy to take frequent handling and because it was available. It *seriously* needed a new cockpit, so I made that, the life raft canister, the rollover pylon, and it got an Airfix pilot whose plane had been cut up for a sci-fi project decades ago. Speaking of decades ago, about 25 years ago I acquired neurological autoimmune disease, endocrine autoimmune disease, mitochondrial dysfunction, so it is a bit of a wonder that I can sill make models ever at all. True, I am now exponentially slower than before, as in the Brewster was begun over a year ago, but, hey, I still have fun when I'm good for it! And in other news, I wish 1/72 pilot figures were more popular a thing and Revell Germany had continued with the boxed sets of ground crew figures and about a dozen seated aircrew they offered around 2010, NATO, WW2 RAF, and WW2 German. I'd be quite happy to have more nationalities and non-Europe environments too. ✈🛩 Being poked along at between bouts of Brewster progress are a Emhar F-94C and ancient FROG/SCAT of Ukraine Sea Venom. Both getting aircrew from other sources and both being painted 🎨🖌 in absolutely anachronistic liveries 😆 Sea Venom is getting USN Yellow wings and treated like it is my personal airplane (so is that Brewster, like I flew in to visit Julie's museum) & the F-94 is getting 1920s USAAC yellow wings and olive green fuselage. I'm 60 years old now and I've done modeling to prototype in both planes and trains, I just want to play now. 😁
Skycat, that is great.
One ugly Airplane.
But kinda ugly cute? Like a pug? (Uh oh, here come the Pug People!)
I didn't like the Skyrocket
Look awarked. Wasn't easy to fly.
It did look strange, but the test pilots said good things…
There's definitely something about it that makes it look uncanny, like someone wanted to design the wing and the engines and just slapped the body of the plane on as an afterthought. I'm trying to think of any other fighters that have the cockpit so far back to the point you could probably see the edge of the wing directly in front of you, and I imagine it would be particularly difficult to see anything below you as well. It almost looks like the body is hanging off the back of the wing for dear life.
dont care about Fs. Boring. Just get on with the story. This is why you dont have any subs
The "Fs" were part of the story. 11,187 people disagree with you.
I didn't like......
Do better or shut up.
Rather dickish, mate. Do us a favor and unsub, or not comment. You add nothing.
Rate of climb: 4000 feet per minute! Wow!