The Launch of Phoebe Philo
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Phoebe Philo just launched on her website and is gearing up to be the most impactful launch LVMH have been a part of since Fenty back in 2017. They do still only have a minority stake, of course, but I don't doubt with her many years of experience working for LVMH owned brands that she has consulted them for things like positioning, price positioning, target markets etc. Visually the brand is as expected from her usual design style, but now with a lot of muted, autumnal colours that differentiate it from the dystopian minimalism that is the trend at the moment. The launch is certainly a risk in the very saturated minimalism market, but its quite well planned and clearly they've invested a lot into it
Beauty Channel: / @underskinyt
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In a 2022 appearance on “Sway’s Universe” that has recently resurfaced, Iman once again noted Philo’s alleged resistance to using models of color, referencing a conversation between the two in which Iman said the designer asked her if she was going to be “forced to use Black models.” For the supermodel and advocate, the question itself was enough for her to boycott the designer entirely. “That’s why I have never bought a Celine bag,” Iman said. “She has a right to her runway, and I have a right to my pocketbook.”
yes, super important to bring up. also important to contextualize it in the fashion landscape of 2013 when after being called out, she and many other designers who hadn't been using black models integrated black models into their shows. by the time she left celine, she had regular black models not just in the shows, but fronting entire campaigns as muses of the brand. I definitely think she was grossly racist, but she seems to have continued this working relationship with black models like Binx Walton into her own label.
She has the right to choose whomever she wants to walk her shows -the advocate and I an get worked up over this while inner cities rot-
I agree with Iman, she has her right to her runway, and I just enjoy the discussions. On her relaunch website, I did see African models on her page.
She may have the right to her runway, but the audience has a right to criticise that
Maybe she just doesn’t like being told what to do lol that part seems obvious throughout her history 😂
Woof. I knew Philo had a huge following but am not dialed in enough to the industry to know much else. The reluctance to use black models is something. I have to wonder if the difference between "influencer" and "key opinion leader" is perhaps access to higher education or even generational wealth.
I haven't finished the video so maybe this is already addressed, but I'd think politics would also explain a return for her. The Overton Window (in the US at least) has been dragged even further to the right; the Kardasians have tired of borrowing black culture, and white supremacists have become bolder. Her appeal is about class, sure. But race seems to factor very heavily into it. Her appeal to women is clearly to wealthy, white women.
I think you’re spot on
This is fascinating as a take, especially for the US and european markets who are having a lot of racial political problems.
I dont think a key opjnion leader is inherently higher educated, but I dont doubt that its part of it. Classism is everywhere
Totally agree
So. It should be okay for White Europeans to be inspired by their culture and cater to their own. Same as every other group/culture does. 🙄
The "different time" when she did not use black models was literally 10 years ago-it's not like it was 1965. I hate that, because I loved the Celine luggage bag and her minimal style. This new collection fell flat for me. Very informative video.
Yes it was not long ago, but it was quite a different landscape in media, hell we had blackface on the BBC then
@@understitchYTyour reply is very cringe
I agree
I also feel like the first drop isn’t aww! To me comparing to what she did before.
I feel like the minimalist style was perfect for black etc businesses women,.. which she didn’t think existed or didn’t want to exist. Shameful really
Yes, not using Black models was widespread but that is also a personal decision, which still would (and does) reflect poorly on her. *shrugs*
I agree. It was her choice to be racially biased. But, it's also her choice to grow, which, at least for now, does seem to have happened. I'd like to know how genuine it is, but growth has happened nonetheless
@@understitchYT Absolutely. Her marketing and shows will show if she's grown.
How can we possibly support someone who refused to use black model until she was forced to do so. Stop supporting people that wouldn't support you!
💅
omg..i never knew of this, she’s one of my favorite designers this is so disappointing.
Well she does call herself trauma queen, lol! @mignoncat1
I agree
@mignoncat1nah you get over yourself
Kanye West’s MBDTF introduced me to the name Phoebe Philo which is wild now putting together how they both seem to hate black women.
(Also this is hyperbole, I don’t know these people I’m just commenting on how their actions look like to me.)
Hegshshsghahsjahdnsje i gagged on air
I love learning about the business side of fashion, your channel is perfection.
Im so glad you think so, tysm 💕
don't forget she finds black people to ruin her aesthetic btw
she really doesn't like us damn
Its such a foolish thought, her style works so unanimously, why would she not want Black models?
(Her thought was foolish, not yours, just to be clear ❤️)
*sigh* it’s unfortunate that Philo felt like she was **forced** to include Black women models in her campaign. I admired her accomplishments before now and didn’t know she was…but just another sad case of having to do a lot of research on a contemporary in advance because they might hate your existence. SMH.
I was literally enjoying the video till I heard she racist :(
I just hope she continues with the path she is on and learns why that mentality was damaging. Obviously she has come a long way since then, she had house models that were Black at Celine, and are returned for Phoebe Philo, but yeah it very much disappointed me too
@@understitchYT good to know. Thanks for touching on it also! I would’ve still been clueless.
Lol it was honestly so hurtful hearing that info. I’ve owned several Céline bags in the past, and have been following Phoebe since her departure from the brand, but this is really off-putting news.
she need to take a education from Versace and Karl Lagerfeld (Chanel) who love Naomi Campbell and used her in every show. their are a lot of wealthy woman of color and IM sure they would think twice before dropping $4000-$5000 on a designer who think less of them.
Her CELINE era was as iconic as Tom Ford at Gucci. I mean any of her collections could overshadow the whole 2023/24 collections we've seen lately. Timeless wearable well made pieces
Oh most definitely, design wise its equally as impactful
She did one collection, Tom Ford was the creative director of both Gucci and Ysl at the same time. And it only took Tom Ford 2 years of leaving Gucci to start his own Brand.
@@pilotoo875
Having kids is a personal choice that men and women have to make, Tom had a partner while being the creative Designer at both houses. And he could have left and started his family doing that time as well. Seem like you are getting a bit personal with him doing alcohol. We don’t know what was getting Phoebe thur her day, beside being a racist and not using models of color.
We’re being spoiled between under skin and this channel. Another incredibly informative video and one that I think is so relevant in todays political and economical climate. I think that the idea of old money/ quiet luxury is a very “costume” like concept. I’ve gone to private school with some people who’s family are APAC oil traders, and they tend to wear Uniqlo/ random polo shirts.
You watched the underskin video 🥰🥰 top tier thank you! And I agreewith you, clothing choices have truly nothingto do with wealth
Since subculture is decline, people turn to trends and aesthetics.. quiet luxury is one of thr aesthetics.
@@understitchYT of course! Your videos are truly quality work; and you’re of course such a class act. Wonderfully made and tastefully written whilst still allowing your personality to show through! 😊
Philo in 2003 be like: "my CELINE clothing is only for white folks." lol
And people cried when it ended
In the minority but I found her era of Celine incredibly austere and beige. I enjoy Hedi Slimane's Celine. Is it groundbreaking? No, but it's young, and cool in a timeless and classic manner, it's wearable and also distinct from his other work from YSL and Dior Homme (even if people insist it isn't). Perhaps this is why I'm not big on Peter Do and Daniel Lee's designs too either. Not great to hear that she did not care about women of colour, you learn new things all the time.
Oh, it is very different from his past work, it’s still extremely in his style, but is very different. I understand what you mean about her design, being a bit beige, but then all minimalism is quite beige, and if not beige, black and white. To me, she had more than that though, because she had an ethos around it, that most don’t
That was the point- beige and plain.
Wow... I was just thinking about how much I liked the clothes until they said she was racist...😂
the more you research the 90s and 2000s the bleaker it gets
@understitchYT I can't say I'm entirely surprised. People were so blatant with their racism back them. Thanks for the warning...🥲
Your comments about Phoebe understanding and representing WOMEN need to change to say WHITE WOMEN only bc that's all she designed for and represented.
(Despite the fact that unfortunately, I am one of the many black women that unwittingly lined this racist woman's pockets).
Your comments (and Phoebe's approach) represent a common bias in discussions about women, feminism, etc. White women are used as synonymous with "women". "Woman" does not mean white women. All women arent white. Most women arent even white. So if your references to women only include white women, you need to ask yourself how you can say this with a straight face.
You call her an "intellectual feminist" you talk about being a revolutionary for women- which she absolutely was not.
Just another example how mainstream feminism is not open, welcoming or a place of belonging for women of color. The blind spots are astounding. For your acknowlegment of her racism to be constrained to a footnote excused by a "different time" when it was barely 10 years ago... is laughable.
And this is particularly tragic since Asian and Black women disproportionately consume luxury fashion.
thank you very much for this comment, I respect your opinion. In the video I do say that she was representing 'women' but it was not all women, I'm quite explicit about that and evidenced the one model she was 'forced to use'. What I am presenting here are not my opinions, but the history of the brand and how that was accepted at the time. Youre right that it was only 15 years ago, but it really was a different time, there was not an awareness of feminism or of racial inequality as there is today, and there are famed examples of this; emma watson's UN speech and both Little Britain and Come Fly With Me which were on the BBC and used a lot of black and brown face. You are right in your comments that Philo has been racist and that it was not held accountable at that time, nor now, but I also said the same thing in the video with the context of how it was received in that time
@understitchYT Thanks for your response. There WAS awareness at that time by those who were not willfully resistant. Per my other reply, this has been a very long standing issue... And Intersectional feminism has been a loud conversation in feminist circles for 50+ years.
How racist of her. Smh. I wouldn’t support based on the modeling thing alone.
Shes come a long way since then of course, but yeah, difficult thing to get passed today. However if the public can do it for Prada, Phoebe is not worse than that
@@understitchYT I’m happy to hear that she has. I didn’t know who she was prior to your video. I really enjoyed it! Hopefully we continue to collectively move toward individuals and brands that aren’t shamed into inclusivity.
6:09 a different time? it wasn't 1910. sounds like an excuse.
Yes, it was a completely dismissive statement. It’s okay though, as long as she’s a good designer she’ll get a pass.
We have come a long way since then, thats undeniable. Back then we literally had black face on the BBC
I’ve read old magazine articles about her saying that she wished she was a Black girl. Before she took over at Chloe, she had gold teeth and long acrylic nails. It's widely known she was obsessed with black or “hood” aesthetics. Her graduate show at CSM was all about that. So her getting upset about having to use Black models is…LOL.
Yeah very hypocritical
You're kidding right, as a black woman, I don't wear gold teeth and have long fake nails. That's a stereotype that you all think we should be.
@understitchYT obviously you didn't do research on the supermodel Iman stating that she didn't get booked to do a Phobe Filo show because she didn't want any black models in the show...
@@kamikani08 who is YOU ALL? I grew up in the hood, look up the articles before you start making accusations. Sarah Mower back in the early 2000s wrote about Phoebe’s gold teeth and acrylic nails. Do a deep dive and you’ll find it.
@@kamikani08 I think perhaps you misunderstand, not every black woman dresses that way but that is a black aesthetic came from black culture. So for Phoebe to adopt that look while rejecting to use black women, thats hypocritical
Honestly taking a look to her new web page I see her personal brand does not offer anything new, I've been a huge fan of her and I know her style but nowadays many brands make a similar work (Bottega Veneta, Proenza Shoulder, The Row, Jil Sander). She made us wait a lot so my expectations were too high and the results in my opinion were disappointing, it was so predictable. The good thing is that she respects her personal touch. I'm not sure it's gonna be a global achievement. Hope the best for her anyway. Love from Mexico.
Youre right that its on brand for her, its just a shame other brands came in her absense because otherwise there wouldnt be so so many for it to be considered unexciting. But also, tbf, if she came out with a totally new aesthetic, there would be a lot of very upset people
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Thanks for helping me understand the hype. The part about her not wanting black models was shocking and makes me wonder how ppl are still hyping this...
Im glad you enjoyed it! I do hope, and it certainy looks like she has, that she has grown
I love how your videos demystify fashion but also pay respect to the art and science that is the business of fashion!
I’m glad that you enjoy it 🥰
Thank you once more for your excellent insights. I have long considered her as Britain's Chanel and strongly believe that she will prove me right. Let's wait and see :) she should even go as far as reviving Savile Row as tailors for women considering that men have abandoned suits and have been taking ownership of femininity for themselves.
Unfortunately savile row really hasnt been profitable in a long time. If it wasnt for japanese and chinese clients, there may not be a row left
But I agree with what you said about her being britains Chanel. She had a bit of a controversial past but now makes very desirable clothes
15:15 Rian Phin and Fashion Roadman would be insanely smart choices for Phoebe Philo to adopt as unofficial brand ambassadors. Im so glad you added them in the video!!
Both people I look up to immensely
Ahh so she's a racist 😂😂😂 - great video as always tho
I do hope she has grown since that time
She was a grown adult at the time, I highly doubt her racism changed@@understitchYT
what struck me the most and distinctively so about her approach to fashion designs (a hallmark of her craftsmanship) is the mastery in tailoring nuances as well as pattern-making of the garments she's created to the forefront.
Which is to me, really reminiscent of Sarah Burton's of The McQueen. They are like two sisters coming out from the same parents. But from each presenting a very strong distinguished visionary.
They both excel in women’s tailoring, that’s for sure, they both have a really unique point of you as well, I appreciate that
@@understitchYT not sure about other people but I'm sure in awe yet also envious (respectfully and aspiring) with all of these crops of uber-talented British Designers. Westwood, Galliano, McQueen, Philo, Christopher Bailey, J.W Anderson. They're something else that comes to shaking up the fashion industry and keep on giving the unthinkable.
The context that I'll add (if it hasn't been already) is that black people aren't considered to signify aspiration, and white people are considered to represent it above all other groups. Black models were thought to devalue the image of brands. When people defend her preferences they are defending the ideas that wealth and privilege are the domain white people. Essentially that's true in most of the world, but it took a lot of brutality to make it so. And that's also what her choices support.
Yes very much so. Theres a sense from this era of fashion that black people are so inherently lesser that they devalue the clothing, that they dilute the ‘brand’. Ofc that notion really comes from the pradaification of fashion, and before that the battle of versailles, but theres no place for it today.
Thank you very much for the insightful video. However, I'm not sure that $8500 basic rectangle tote bags, that are the easiest and cheapest models to construct, will really sell in the long run.
Easy?! CHEAP?!? Thats at LEAST four seams of stitching 😂😂😂
I don’t really know anything about the designer world, but I’ve been a Philophile since her Celine days, that was my favorite brand in those days. I’m sure her new brand will sell like hotcakes, too.
Thats really the genius of her style. Its fashion even for those that dont think they like fashion. She is the cerulean sweater of fashion
The video was nice till I heard she is racist:(
eitherway love your videos🤍
The 2000s werent a very Black friendly place unfortunately
I wouldn't wear her clothing knowing she is a racist.
using a single black model... alsright phoebe ure officially on my ew list
Wow, the turnaround time on this video! 👏
Im very tired
First thing that comes to my mind every time I hear about Phoebe Philo is that iconic verse from Ye MBDTF, like those two are inseparable to me, in some beautiful, dark, twisted way.
Kanye was always ahead in fashion
@@understitchYT So true.
Was excited to see Phoebe Philo back and fo see your in depth preview into her career but seeing her not including black models from the jump considering she once rocked gold teeth and red acrylics is kind of a bummer to say the least. Is she really a sybillic genius or just a voracious culture vulture? Miuccia Prada and Rei Kawakubo were also brought to task and it’s seems to be too much eye rolling, teeth sucking and eye brow stroking for something as benign as asking for body and cultural inclusivity. Kawakubo and Julien D’Y’s apology for that terribly styled Egyptian wig Neo-Afro loc fiasco perfectly sums up how those in power love to lazily and or shamelessly borrow from marginal groups and when it’s called out it’s a bunch of “well u guess referencing and art is dead, god too!!!” I’m being hyperbolic there at the end but it’s truly maddening. Philo is now inclusive but again really disappointed to see she was low key bothered and thus included one black model for her next season, lol so petty.
I think you make a great point about the irony in her usign Black aesthetics in her personal style and then refusing to use Black models, but the aesthetic she became famed for feels very white to me, Im not sure where the original inspiration for that look came from if not from other minimalist designers like Jil Sander
Um she heavily “borrowed” from American black aesthetics in her early years so even if she wasn’t “known” for it she used things like long hooked acrylic nails, bamboo hoop earrings and torn jeans garner attention to herself at her early shows over sense. This was before social media so she was even championed for having a unique aesthetic (as a 90s culture vulture) So it’s low key even worse she dropped black aesthetics like it’s hot once it didn’t serve her anymore only to be know for her “white” aesthetic now so I guess that makes it swell and ok lol. Well at least now she keeps the same energy all the way around and is keeping her vision “white”.
it's insane how good this channel is. these videos could encompass an MBA degree
Thank you so much 🥰
It’s crazy to say it was a “different time” when it was only a decade ago… there is no excuse, it’s not the 20th century. She knew what she was doing and simply didn’t want to use black models.
In years it doesnt seem that notable, but it really was a whole different world. Women were openly fatshamed or accused of stuff for no reason, gay and black people were openly mocked on TV (we even had black face on the BBC then). So sure, its only 10-20 years, but its a world of difference
I liked her products and page aesthetic! I'm not a classic philophile, but i can definitely see now why people stan hard. Mrs Philo can DESIGN in every department. I liked the shoes, the coats, the necklaces, the sunglasses, the bags... It would be nicer though to see a fashion show, or a video. The idea of placing the whole collection on line ( the majority of her stuff are SOLD OUT as we speak) it kinda gives a HM x some big designer collaboration vibe, where people have the fear of missing out some pieces and everyone must act quick. Other than that, very, very interesting 💜
But now she has the PR from the launch, PR from selling out and still has the first catwalk as PR later, its kind of smart
@@understitchYT So smart, suddenly i wanna buy her stuff!! Maybe the secrecy around the BRAND's next moves is a bit frustrating for the fans and costumers, old and new.
The added update (from Patreon version) with the launch is really interesting. Thank you!!
I cant believe how correct I was in the predictions I made, even I surprised myself
Did she become more inclusive in her use of a diverse runway???
I know later on in her shows at Céline she had a bit more model of colours compared to her first few years, especially with Binx Walton becoming one of her muses (she's in the campaign photos for the namesake label I saw). But we're going to have to wait and see until she does her first runway collection. Maybe the time away from fashion has allowed her to change and grow, but who knows exactly until a show is announced.
She will have to !
Btw- great video. Very informative. I love your channel. I am fascinated by the business aspect of the industry as well as the aesthetics. Do you plan on doing the rise and rise of Alaia? They are doing very well and the new creative director is really pushing the brand forward whole still maintaining the essence of Alaia.
Alaia is an absolute must, such an iconic brand
Some how there is something missing from Philo designs. Suddenly it looks generic. When you come up with 150 items to sell, that makes it ordinary in my opinion. 🙏🏼
You think? I know quiet luxury is really common now, so it looks like more stuff on the market, but its definitely very 'her'
Really great video!! Love your commentary and analysis
Thank you so much
Most items are already sold out. I thought for sure that she would have a physical presence in Dover Street Market all over the world. You kept saying LOW prices. Have you seen the prices? $8400 for the bags. Those are Hermes prices without the game.
Low prices is mostly in reference to the array of prices, som things were lower than I expected (not all) and I think that because of the need for entry point products and also for the reason of being a bit lower at launch as I mentioned in the video. Obviously its still high, but if this is their answer to Hermes, then it's either as much or a little less than I expected. I really think itll be an "in-the-know" brand within a few years
More than gracious to have seen this great video not even a minute after release. A study I’ve be awaiting. Greatness.
💯
Then I’m very glad that you enjoyed it
it's all fomo of phoebe philo. the brand is saur minimalist & aesthetic, it will be timeless wether we like it or not. despite having super high prices for simple design but they're timeless & easily recognizeable in the future.
One thing I really appreciate about your channel is how you clearly identify businesses that are set up to grow over the long-term versus those that are set up to be a short term ventures. It’s not always obvious to the consumer when a business is set up as a company that’s meant to last just a few short years (with the express purpose of making the founder very rich). Your breakdowns of the company structure, the marketing, the products, and the pricing really do a great job of highlighting that.
You were going to love my video on skims 🫣
Super informative, great job! I am sure she will do well, even with those astronomical price points. She’ll do well because she will appeal to wealthy white women. Right up her alley!
Thank you so much, I’m glad you liked the video, and I agree, she knows her market and she plays towards it
it's all fomo of phoebe philo. the brand is saur minimalist & aesthetic, it will be timeless wether we like it or not. despite having super high prices for simple design but they're timeless & easily recognizeable in the future.
For sure, she made a hnique aesthetic for herself and it sold. Makes sense why it has a following today
Great video but cant believe you think the prices are LOWER than anticipated! 😅
Theyre more mixed than I expected. I really was anticipating only the high priced items at first to establish the price point of the brand. But the range was a pleasant surprise, entry point products are usually a good idea and allows most people to get in on the action. I just didnt expect so many so early
Please! Talk about the rise and fall of BLUMARINE!
Its such a shame
I love my old Céline items!
They are such good quality
Then please use the accent aigu!
yeah i tried@@aiai-j7i
The new brand is very expensive, and that's okay. The prices will come down, but they are setting themselves apart from everyone else. Also i love that She is separating the girl from the women. This collection her news collection is about women. No Influencers, no celebrities just design and great products! The most important thing about it is intendric value. So much of fashion is what other people like And not what the customer actually likes. Now. It's swinging back to the customer, and I'm all for it.
I agree, it might be expensive, but it’s purposeful
6400€ for a basic bag…? Vat ze eque?!
Lil tote bag for the beach
I get it know why you say the price positioning makes sense for the brand within LVMH. Smart thinking!
Yeah, its high, but its got a purpose
14:58 this is amazing (and welcome) news. intellect is back in fashion! thank you for relaying it to those of us outside the fashion industry. 🙏🏼
There’s been a lot of changes to the space of fashion conversation recently, there is more value being had in informed voices now, and there is space for both, but that’s more my area of interest
Philo is problematic and her brand is so unimpressive, rather buy the row
Yeah, but problematic for how long? Scandals seem so fickle now, they dont seem to have the impact they once did
good question, no idea. We shall see how well she does @@understitchYT
Investor said " Sales & REVENUES are the Ultimate measure of SUCCESS ! ".
Yeah pretty much
I find it a bit pricey -everything is pretty much sold out -I’m happy for her
Pricey, but its a well studied pricepoint, so I think its smart for the branding and positioning
It's funny, I never thought I actually follow fashion or know anything about fashion but somehow my taste development seems to align pretty closely to the development of the quiet luxury trend you describe. As a teenager in the early 00s I was kind of fascinated by brand name bags and aspiring to owning them one day...like my mom, lol. Later I got very much into everything that looks sleek and COS-like and nowadays I roll my eyes at people that visibly wear big name brands, no way. If I spend a few 100s-1000s Euros on something it has to be minimal, practical and nobody should be able to tell what it is by a super obvious logo 😂
I love that you have found your style! Thats such an important change imo, it helps with so much
Very disappointing to see how you mention PP’s alleged racism and swiftly move on. I don’t think this video will age well.
As for the the collection, I’ve never been a Philophile but I do sympathise with the hordes who’ve been left disappointed by the style and shocked by the price point. It’s a brand new brand and - although the pieces appear of quality - it doesn’t seem to showcase the exquisite fabrics and craftmanship of Tom Ford’s first collections with their (then) astronomical price point.
As for the future of the brand, there is no chance LV in their sane mind think they can challenge juggernauts like Hermes and Chanel with a new brand. If anything, they may use this experiment to prove to Hermes’s current shareholders that they can do quiet luxury. PP may be their Trojan horse. But - again - at this price point and with no decades/century long heritage, PP herself will probably soon want to spend more time with her family
Did I already reply to this comment? Or did you delete and repost?
sorry to bust your bubble. Celine was not a TOM FORD GUCCI. and on the subject of TOM FORD, Tom Ford didn't just revitalize Gucci he was also designing for YSL, so please stop comparing Phoebe to Tom Ford. He is a Genius of Fashion.
Yes, they are very different, Tom was a marketing guy and Phoebe is a responder. He really restructured fashion, being instrumental in creating the gucci group, without which LVMH would have a real monopoly, while she listened to consumers and developed what they would like. Both geniuses in different ways
I was seriously waiting for it! Even mentioned on the Khy video 😍.
I knew this was coming for a good while, so Im glad you were looking forward to it from Khy
namilia is minimalist?
It’s a kind of gritty minimalism, it’s not the same as the techie clean minimalism of the 90s
In term of design i dont think Philo was ever that innovative in all her past roles but she was very good at styling pieces and putting the "looks" together id say the same with all the so called quiet luxury brands i never bought into it but i can see why many like it
Yeah exactly, she also did a lot of good work finding then-small but very talented designers like Peter Do
Okay. She’s Racist. I will stick with The Row.
Such a great video! Loved how you dove into how the economy and design go hand in hand!
They do!! Totally interrelated
Who also gasped at $8500 big tote bag (horizontal Cabas reiteration) and $1100 fabric scraps broach?
😂
I was expecting something so ridiculous so I wasn't too aghast, but the numbers are very very high
I remember first hearing about her through Kanye
He has championed a lot of great designers over the years
@@understitchYT definitely, he was the first to do it in hip hop, actually. Brought high end fashion to the genre, then asap rocky carried the torch introducing high end street wear
@@TrvisXXIII I think he also carried the torch, there was a lot of black artists in hip hop before him that brought fashion into music, but he certainly has his own point of you which I really respect
Expected higher prices?
They are selling a tote for almost 9k not even Chanel nor Hermes have that! 20:38
Oh they do, Chanel and Hermes both do. What is the birkin if not a tote bag?
Black models are the best models ever! If you want to get attention on your fashion or fabric cuts and style you need black models. 👌👌👌
It's ridiculous to think today that brands and heads of brands would refuse people based only on this
she is the pioneer behind some of my favorite outfits from rihanna and kanye west during the 2010s era
Oh yes for sure
Wow almost all sold out - and at those prices too 😳. -can u imagine the resale price ?!?
Omg dont, I just dont want to think
So informative! And so well researched and produced!
Thank you so much 🥰
As far as I know, it was general opinion that Roland Mouret was behind Victoria Becham brand. He is not bad at all, but not quite artistic like Phoebe.
That’s very interesting, I will have to look into that
@@understitchYT
Yes and you should also look that Phoebe Philo 1st collection for Céline was in spring of 2009 for fall.
She got the job in 2008. She didn't had back then the collection, she for sure had the ideas, but actually she s same time as the others half to make something out this together, as any other designer has to make the new collection (twice a year plus haute couture so less then a half to put the ideas together, and make the whole collection, sure it is a process, it Axl Rose took Axl Rose a decade to finish November Rain and it is normal that designers and artist have ideas for a long time, but to make a whole collection in this advance and to have that prepared years before that you suggested is not the reality because first designers change the brands and then they have to follow their rules, and second they have to make the various collection at least two, well, not all of them, Aläia and now Jaquemus once a year )..and ofc they talked abut the ideas and directions and the visions for the brand, but no big designer will work for free, and make a collection without being paid. She wasn't no name back then or a starter.
Im questioning a lot of your “facts” 🙄
Please do, always happy to be corrected, I pin those comments. I'd rather have facts than argue something that was wrong
I hope Pheobe sponsored you soon as you obviously love her work ❤ the price point is 🤪too high for me to even consider 😂
Its not my style whatsoever actually, youd be surprised 😂 I just think the new brand is exceptionally well planned for her target
🧐🤨😏 now I'm curious.… if ‘quiet luxury’ isn't your style.…. You could be into Diesel or Vivienne Westwood or Polo RL or Celine.… hope you will reveal the truth soon.….
@@paddyolten4031 I dont know if it matters, I genuinely dont base my analyses on my own personal taste at all, to me my personal taste is irrelevant for that tbh
@@understitchYT you could be the male version of Anna Wintour so your own style & character could inspire others... I don't get inspire by her at all just to be clear.…but its an example to share
i fucking love this channel
I fucking love you
Neeeded it🫶🏽
Provided it
The Men’s version of Pheobe at Celine, is Haider at Berluti
You think? I dont think theres as much cultish following of Haider
An off-topic question if you don't mind; I see you put Toteme and Joseph in two different brackets, which surprised me. Price- and quality-wise they seem fairly similar to me. I would even argue that Joseph is slightly better on the quality. I'm very curious what's your take on those brands.
It's subjective of course, but actually I ran out of space on the graph so it's not particularly accurate to my beliefs either
Very informative video! Thanks❤. I just subscribed 🙂
Thank you so much!!
Imma quote Yeezy in Dark Fantasy here "And my chick in that new Phoebe Philo" ayyyy
He brought so many to her work
I was so shocked that it was so successful, considering the fact that the Row, Bottega, and other comparable brands seem to offer similar, if not better quality and design forward items. And the clothes are nothing ground breaking compared to the creative juice she exhibited at Celine. It was quite underwhelming
I didnt doubt it would be successful. She really was at the forefront of celebrity fashion designers, second wave-ish after Galliano and McQueen, so theres a lot of fandom there
Lost me at ‘forced to use black models’
Yeah, I think she lost a lot of people that way
Thank you for this information concerning her injustice towards people of color.
❤️
€6000 for a tote is beyond pricey cant imagine prices increasing further, this brand isn’t Hermés!
But its certainly trying to be
Linking a minimal aesthetic to economic difficulties is so interesting given that, for a lot of people, it was spurred by "Succession", a show about an avaricious, evil mogul and his entitled, ineffectual kids who destroy economies, the media, democracy, the planet, and almost anyone who comes near them. So even while the wealthy want to pair down in reesponse to the recession as per tradition, the lower classes are paying high prices to emulate those styles. Even if they aren't going to designer lines to accomplish this, it's still become a huge trend to teach people how to do it any way they can and why it's better. This happens with many successful shows, but I doubt its creators thought this trend would have been the outcome of theirs.
Tv affects a lot of fashion, but the timing of the successes of shows tells us what era the show began. Shows about aspiration; two broke girls, sex and the city all come from times of economic boom. Shows that mock that, ugly betty, absolutely fabulous, the nanny (to an extent) all from recession times, its very interesting
If the “female gaze” is just male silhouettes, that is very disappointing.
Women tend to design clothing that is more considerate of functional elements, thats really the big difference. Pockets, comfort, practicality
@@understitchYT No they don’t. That’s menswear. Although every designer is different, womenswear generally values aesthetic principles over utilitarian practicality.
Men are more into the practical side and Phoebe Philo understands this hence a reason why she is perhaps so heavily inspired by menswear
The use of the term “Female Gaze” is inappropriate and wrong, I love your videos but that term felt forced.
In Hedi's defense, cEline logo were first used by Michael Kors in the late 90's.-
I think people forget how short of a history the world of luxury fashion that we have today has
thank you for taking the trouble to answer. To clarify, Chanel took inspiration, tailoring, knitwear and so much from the Brits, only to "Frenchify" those stiff looks and sell them back to rich Brits from her Deauville store. Phoebe loves tailoring for women, has the Parisian experience and can now do it all in London. I truly believe that the Savile Row tailors should follow her (and the Row's lead) and switch to making more 'suited' womenswear. Phoebe could really drive that trend.
I really think that all tailoring at that period came from the British, that was really the height of Savile Row, and they had an enormous influence that there was nowhere else competing with. At least not until later with Italy telly.
collection that she put out is fire! look after a look, amazing and most sold out already lol
40% of her online store is currently sold.
I agree, it’s very on brand in every way, a really solid first collection
@@lucasmoreno5330it’s almost all sold out in the UK
its finally heeeeeeeeeeeeeere
YyyyeeeeeaaHhhhhhh
too much expensive...
by the way I love your video Understitch
I’m always so happy to see you
however. however. however
A noble word
Her collection for Celine SS10 remind me of Hermes by Martin Margiela
Its along the same lines, yeah
AND, the fact that so much of the range is entirely sold out, echo's your mindset. Have to say that those Jodhpur Boots are really calling my name, not to mention the Zip Leather Jacket!!
Theres a lot of really classic beautiful things, its a very solid launch
I was waiting for this video, well done once again! sooo much to say, unpacked and you mentioned so many thoughts I also had upon visit the website. I never anticipated a launch such as this one and
I'm glad its "finally" here and I'd like to see where it goes. Are the prices ridiculous YES, but to differentiate itself and appeal to the uber rich market.its spot on. I just couldn't get over the sequence dress being $19000, I was disappointed, because it was so basic and the material wasn't;t even the highest of quality. That dress did not feel like Phoebe. My favorite were the trousers with the zipped back. Amazing video, right on time. Lastly, what articles do you get your sources from? I'd love to have a read for myself
Im glad you liked it, unlike that sequence dress 😂 I think youre right that its high, sure, but its an educated high, perfect for her position and target and to help differentiate the brand from their competitors, its very clever
For the references, Im afraid I made the beginning of this video about a month ago for Patreon, so I dont remember exactly what I used, but youre welcome to google a quote from some to find the source 🥰
Great video. Everything you talked about is on point. But I don’t think LVMH is the main owner of PP, a minority owner instead. I don’t think it would be in her best interest to have LVMH as the main owner either. Who doesn’t wanna freedom - creative and financial at least
Yes, they own 49% i believe
@@understitchYT aww a lot more than I thought. She’s keeping just enough to call the shots. But if she needs more funding after this first release, she’s going to lose her control of the label immediately. LVMH must have seeded $millions for her to get started. If I were her, I would have taken more of the Jacquemus approach, take way less cash and keep the label to herself. She has the following and Jacquemus didn’t have any when he started +10 years ago.
Blah Blah Blah - when will the gop shut!!!!! - goes on and on ......
Kesha?
As always, you give me life!!
Will take tiramisu in return 🫣
Funny enough, after living in Italy and being married to a Chef from Naples, I do make a mean Tiramisu!! @@understitchYT
The depression was in full swing in the 1930’s
Full swing