Honest Opinion Of The Arnold Strongman Classic 2024
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- A fully independent viewpoint the ASC 2024 , Lots to discuss!
#ASC2024 #thorbjornsson #strongman #eddiehall #tmitchellhooper #talkingstrongman #strongmannews #wsm #worldsstrongestman #thestrongestmanonearth
TIMESTAMPS BELOW
0:00 - Results
0:50 - Thank you ASC/Rogue
1:35 - Thor Deadlift
3:10 - Bobby Deadlift
4:30 - Mateusz Deadlift Strategy
6:30 - Events too similar?
9:00 - Refereeing of Thor's Axle
13:30 - Mitchell Hooper controversial lifts
17:30 - Some UA-camrs ignoring facts
17:55 - Rogue excellent Streaming
19:40 - Athletes zeroing events
24:28 - How should athlete order be determined
25:45 - Terrible comments on Live Stream
27:00 - Commentary talking over athletes
29:23 - Review of Thor
32:10 - Review of Evan Singleton
36:15 - Review of Bobby Thompson
38:34 - Tom Stoltman's Coach
42:57 - Review of Mateusz
49:11 - Review of Hooper
53:48 - Review of Martins
56:44 Thank you to ASC/Rogue - Спорт
UPDATED COMMENT after reading your main talking points in the comments -
It’s always been the case that elbows locked/close to locked (overhead), body upright and implement under control were the 3 fundamental elements to be given a good lift in Strongman overheads. Certainly at elite comps I went to in years gone by these were stipulated in athlete meetings. If it’s the not case at the ASC 2024 then I think it’s a strange standard of officiating however then Hooper would be doing the correct thing and all the other athletes are naive not to also take advantage of the lack of the 3 standard rules. So far only Hooper and his coach said that the stone can be forward, it will be interesting to hear other athlete's interpretation. But again, if it's not in the rules and you can lean back and elbows not locked then Hooper is being smart.
Regards Thor's 2nd rep taken away after the event.
1.The main ref in front of him who stands up in each athlete's line of sight gives Thor the down signal.
2. As we covered in the video, it was not a good rep, that is not been disputed.
3. However taking or adding reps to athletes's scores after the event causes big problems such as:-
4. The athlete could have potentially attempted another rep if they know they had not got the previous attempt.
5.The following athletes may be wasting energy chasing reps they don't need and therefore lose the advantage of going afterwards.
6.If reps can be taken away after the event due to ref's errors then athletes will have to ignore the down signal and continue trying to stabilise and lock out until they feel it's beyond any chance of been later challenged, which means the refs will be giving down signals and then stood there for 5-10 seconds with hands in their pockets whilst the athlete continues to hold a lift the ref has already given the down signal for - madness! Might as well do away with refs and the athlete's stand in front of a mirror..
Thank you to ASC/Rogue who gave us a great line up, a great fast paced comp, events which are visually pleasing for the sport's growth and all for free!
Absolutely agree with the rep taken away: Either you give the rep or not. Taking it away afterwards is a mess. Imagine that in football: Team 1 is leading ten minutes before end 1:0 and therefore decides to go in defense even if they are clearly superior and could easily score another goal. And then after the game they get to know, that the goal was taken away ...
@@florianmcslag7472 Exactly.
I also agree about the rep taken away
I just wanna say that no one lifted the 184kg stone of the floor and Kieliszkowski did it three times.
he's a different animal on those isn't he
bar is easy to grab and to get a hold of. Same with that frame as you basically hold on to the pipe. Stone is a strongman spirit. I believe that strongman is rooted in farming so lifting stones and carry them should be something that everyone should be able to do before being called strongman. Kieliszkowski is still a record holder of that stone with 5 reps. I don't how he does it but seams to master it @@MattRhodesSport
@@MartinTeerly stone to shoulder my favourite event mate, as you say it seems the most raw, honest test.
What did u expect. He's king of the stones :D
@@BuffPomskypretty sure stoltman is but didn’t want to hurt himself
Mitch could have skipped an entire event and still won 😅
- 52 points out of a possible 55
- 11.5 points ahead of 2nd place
- Three event wins and a 2nd and 3rd place in the other two
- Broke two world records
- Won the Dinnie Stones with plenty left in the tank
Absolute domination.
Top class win
I did not realise Hafthors rep was taken away after the down signal was given. Thats fucked up.
It is especially fucked up because as he was struggling he cold very well have managed to fully lock out if he did not have gotten the down signal.
Yeah It wasn't very clear that it had happened
@@dm45867 That was about the worse referring i have seen in a log time ;-(
@MattRhodesSport it wasn't taken away. There were 3 refs he never got the down. On the stream it looked like he did, but that wasn't the case
Yes he did.@@bronchoped
Regarding commentary and overshadowing a person's moment in the sun, I hated how they didn't seem to acknowledge Ziolkowski at all. It is an accomplishment in itself to make it to this level and get your chance against the top guys. We're all excited for the Thors and Hoopers and Novikos etc but they get enough exposure as is.
I think it was not intentional at all and the team this year was good with the changes. I think next year they will rectify that as it was unfortunate.
Just added in all the time stamps for you guys! Thanks for watching, I'll be very interested to hear your opinions on the topics!
I think it's not an exaggeration to say the woman who won the women's Arnold would have place top five in both Stone events for the men
It was hard to see Thor in the lead and then struggle in the pressing events. I would wager his pectoral isn’t fully healed and that his pressing strength is not at an optimal level. I hope Thor is able to attain the pressing strength he exhibited in 2020 when he last competed at the AC and won his third straight title. To be sure if the events were slightly different say the Cyr dumbbell and Conan’s wheel instead of the lackluster Dinnie stones and stone medley Thor wins that competition possibly with just one of those event changes. Thor should be 100% for the next Arnold’s and he will reclaim his title.
They should make the silver trophy in the image of Mateusz.
:))
Thats hilarious! So sad but true! Was happy to see his DL at respectable weight. Imagine how many wins he'd have if he could DL with the best.
Great comment! He might even chuckle at that!😂
They shouldn't have been doing interviews during athlete's performances.
Nice that they chat with athletes but I agree they should pay attention to each athletes performance.
@@MattRhodesSport exactly
I agree. Chit chat while in between or set ups OK, but once the action starts then only commentary from the athlete, not talk unrelated to the action happening right then.
If I was an athlete, I might say 'shut up, I am watching the Moose!"
I thought Hafthor deadlift, and Mateusz stone medley were unbelievable but other than that I think the Shaw classic has become better
Brian is doing a lot of things right
@@MattRhodesSport So is Brian........LOL
@@joeshmoe7967 fixed it :)
Mateusz natural stone lifting is still the best in the world 💪
100%
Totally agree with Matt and the Caveman... two grip and carry events like the Frame and Dinnie Stones, they're a disproportionate measurement of strength, in a competition with so few events, to accurately determined the Worlds/ Planets Strongest man. Wheel of Pain is a good suggestion, however I would have preferred to see a throwing event, that's what was missing from this year's Arnold's
Yup, further proof is number 1 and 2 where the same on both events
Throwing would have been another good opinion, I agree.
The issue I have with the shit down calls on pressing is that it's getting way worse when it should be getting better. There's no excuse for being sat down or in the wrong spot to judge the lift properly. This competition has been going on for 22 years. That should have been worked out by now.
As far as that 300 lbs stone press, either judge it properly, get a different stone, (A block would be just as impressive) or don't have it in the comp at all if it's really that dangerous. However, Tom and Mateusz managed to get it right without dying. Certainly Mitch can do it if he's that amazing.
Agree with all mate.
Matt, I respect your opinion that ASC is the best show. My preference is a show with more than 5 events: Strongest Man on Earth.
I realize most people who share my opinion are Brian Shaw fanboys. However, the eight events gives a better overall test than the 5 at ASC.
Thanks for the strongman content. Always love your views on it
I think Brian is well on the way to creating the pinnacle comp mate. So far Thor, Mateusz, Martins etc have not competed there which is necessary to determine who is the best.
@@MattRhodesSport absolutely a just criticism. There's a chance all three will this year. Given how ASC played out, there should be motivation for each to compete in Colorado
yep, should be more than just 5 events, wss still fun to watch ofc, but kinda felt quite empty at the end
Events 2-3 were absolutely ridiculous to have in the same event. 1 or the other but not both.
I really liked both but agree that I don't think they both belong in a 5 event comp.
As for thors axle. Since the bar shifted. The middle ref gave him a good call but the 2 side judges gave him the red cards of no lift. Another problem is that the announcer saw the middle ref give the good call and went with it. Then the scoreboard was updated for the lift. Then later taken away because of the mistake. Even athletes, coaches seen his axle really was not a rep
It was not a goof rep, that's not been debated. One ref stands up from his chair, walks to the centre in the athlete line of site and gives the down call, which he gave to Thor. Therefore the rep was given as a good lift.
Very interesting debate I loved the insight,I think Tom has become mentally strong,,Mitch is in his prime and his day hard to beat,Thor I agree is on th road to come back,marunez is back to his best
Glad you enjoyed it!
Jerry was great on mic. He’s like Tony Romo calling plays before they happen. Evan needs to decide if he wants to be a competitor or a showboater.
Jerry has a wealth of knowledge.
I agree if Evan could chill the hell out and focus he would accomplish more and have a bigger fan base. Watch with my wife who does not know much and even she said he seems like a tool.
@@bobu4055 I used to hate his personality until Mitch appeared 😅
A channel talking about Alastair Cook and Halfthor 😂, I am amazed. Gonna keep an eye on you guys from now on, maybe someday you can discuss ‘bazball’ and how it was cremated in India in 2024.
Jokes aside, I so like your explanation and analyses. It’s sad to see two grip and carry events in the same competition. It’s sad to see Apollon wheel and Stone medley (both pressing events) right after one another. I like push and pull and lifting events. Mitch is a phenom when it comes to consistency and endurance. Would really like to see how he does in WSM against Thor where the events will probably be more in the laters favor. Mateusz is still not a complete strongman. Only event he is a beast at is stone to shoulder and if you take that out he will not even feature in the top five. Tom looked good, I think he Thor and Mitch will be the future of strongman for sometime now. A little sad to know that they deducted points from Thor but not Mitch. I doubt if that would have had an effect on the overall standings but still. I would love to see a management being fare to all the competitors and designing events that suit everyone unlike what Colin Bryce did for Eddie Hall in WSM 2017. ✌️
Haha Marcus and I have a big interest in multiple sports so often find ourselves drawing comparisons. Glad you enjoyed it!
I commented on Hooper's incline stone press over on Rogue's channel and people are just replying saying that it's basically a matter of safety. Like, no shit? The event itself is dangerous by design but that doesn't mean any one athlete should get away with a half rep. As we can see from video footage there were athletes that actually put it straight over their heads and the risk of injury is the same for everyone so, really, the referees are to blame here. The athletes wouldn't want leniency, they also don't deserve the hate that unfortunately always falls upon them.
Yep, better without that stone altogether and if we have to have it then same standards for all.
Once Thor gets his overhead strength back its going to be really exciting watching he and Mitch battle it out. Throw in comps that suit Tom, and those are exciting 3 way battles to look forward to.
Agreed, will be great!
The livestream was brilliant . The women’s comp was great. Angelica Jardine was a breath of fresh air.
Free and fast flowing, Rogue are great for the sport.
They just need to get rid of "DR" Bill and all is good lol
He's a nice guy i think. As Marcus said, a bit of professional training for whoever is there would help them do even better.
I agree, I've seen Dr. Bill Crawford commentary in the past and wondered if he has ever watched strongman. There's got to be someone else to replace him with that is more involved with strongman.
I feel the same way. Haha he just ends up regurgitating what the strongman to his left says
Mateusz on the stone was the highlight of the show.
Always bosses that doesn't he
Event 1: Lift this
Event 2: Lift this and walk
Event 3: Lift this and walk
Event 4: Lift this and press
Event 5: Lift this and press
Only 5 Events and all very similar. Shaw's Classic is already light years ahead of this competition. Arnolds need 3 more events, and more creative people coming up with challenges.
I mean, I understand the Arnold's is very popular, I just don't see how they sustain the momentum if they put out too many stinkers like what they did this year.
Day 2 was not it for me in terms of events.
It did feel a bit similar for a 5 event comp
I think it is amazing the fact that they took the 2nd rep and points from Thor!
Opens a can of worms if athletes can no longer trust refs down calls
yeah, but if they are being honest, they know. VAR is a thing, we have 30 cameras on them, we can't just let it slide@@MattRhodesSport
plus the idea is to make the sport more professional, and this is the way@@MattRhodesSport
If Mateusz hadn't tore his IT band he could've broken his frame WR. I think he'd also have gone further with the dinnies. Looks like his leg buckled rather than losing his grip. Could've won 3 events. Was so hyped to see his axle performance. 5 reps was there, he doesn't move with the same urgency as Hooper
Yep, I thought he did very well all things considered. 2nd at ASC when not in best form and carrying an injury :)
Having a mark to beat helps a lot. Maybe if Mateusz came in after Hooper he would have done better.
@@thorthewolf8801Maybe and maybe not. Some of the athletes even said that in a frame carry, having a mark to beat is almost irrelevant, because it is a time mark and not a distance mark to beat. They go as fast as they can regardless.
@@holyhex6520 On the dinnies it certainly helps.
@@holyhex6520 Are you being intentionally obtuse? We are talking about the dinnies, of course going later helps.
I’d call this a very fair conversation from someone who watches all the competitions and channels. Thanks
Thank you, nice to hear.
Again, Matt and Caveman... I could not be more in agreement with your observations.... could not believe Thor was given credit for the second axle rep when he clearly was not locked out, it's an injustice to Thor, the accuracy and fairness of the axle press results, and the competition as a whole. extremely disappointed and frustrating to see that poor officiating is hurting athletes and the events credibility as a whole. After all, who knows if Thor may have pressed that lift into a complete lock-out, in the next few seconds, had he not been given an illegitimate down single from the official....
Exactly right, once given he drops the axel rather than fighting for the lockout only to be stripped of the lift once he's backstage.
is there a beef between matt and mitch hooper?
According to Mitch on reddit, Matt has him blocked. So he defs particularly dislikes Mitch.
Speaking on the events, i think a sandbag over bar (6-8 bag run) would have been a nice change instead of timber followed by stone walk
Yep a fair option
Fast moving event, visually stunning for the crowd, and an event where time breaks ties. Being there in person, not much about scoring and using time for breaking ties was announced. Thank you for posting in real-time to see point counts!
That frame been in 3 years in a row it sucks getting tired of seeing it
@@jameschristy9966 yes, always nice to mix in but there are many other moving events to pick from. Would like to see a heavy yoke into a farmers medley for as a switch up
@@TerminEader13 glad I was of some help. Hope you had a great time!
If the ref says down then they need to award the rep. Otherwise it's like taking a goal away after a football match.
I agree, too many issues with adding/removing points after the event
Matt and Caveman, you guys did it again! Great, and in my mind, this type of professional talk is hard to find. You nailed every point in the video! **big thumbs up**
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it!
Great analysis. Totally agree with the points made.
And finally some emotion for Mitch this can make him more likable. As opposed to last Arnold utterly ridiculous comment.
You guys nailed it again... event 5 of the "stones medley".... WTF why make the athletes press an Atlas stone overhead, when they could have used a natural stone, that was more rectangular and block shaped, of an equivalent weight to press overhead? MVM the four times world's strongest man champion has stated in interviews that overhead stone pressing is his favorite event, and he believes it one of the truest test of overall body strength. Overhead natural stone lifting for max weight was an event often featured in the '80s era of World's strongest man.
I agree, and also pressing a spherical object overhead is incredibly dangerous because there are no handholds like there is on natural stone, or metal blocks. It was a poor choice by the event organizers in the interest of safety of the athletes.
Just the tombstone would have been great here with points for lapping and points for shouldering. But credit to the ASC for always trying interesting events.
Great video Matt.
I loved this comp as a strongman and strongwoman nerd.
But I agree with you, Thor's great but those axel presses were not locked out they were soft.
But I do think he could do 505 even without a suit to be honest.
Mitch I can not stand whatsoever, is he a talent yes, but he's smug smarmy cocky and arrogant git, and he's often gets given dodgy reps it's as if things are set up for him to win, like the rogue last year which was clearly a fix, and his strone press was not a good press at all, as his head wasn't through, it's the same as logs his head is basically NEVER through with his back bent, so he should get no lifts, I've no idea why he gets special treatment.
I don't care who the athlete is , we need no special treatment with fairness for everyone with clean reps for everyone
I don't give any athlete a benefit of the doubt and by that I mean, all reps must be clean an no silly reps ect, especially for a high level competition l, and especially with the money that's up for grab.
Also I agree that if a ref gave a bad lift, they shouldn't take it away, they did that with Thor even though it wasn't a proper lift. But on the womens dumbbell press hannah lindsay was given a very bad press, but melissa peacock wasn't given the press, was it a good lift it's debatable but I would say yes, Melissas press was miles better than hanna Lindsay's press so why didnt she get the lift but Hannah Lindsay did ??
There's no consistency with referees, it's a huge problem.
I love this sport, and I always will, ive been a fan since 1999, that's 25 years, but there's is a lot of problems that by now should have been sorted out, should have been sorted out yonks ago actually, and the main problem is refereeing.
Thank you mate. You talk a a lot of sense. Let's hope the refereeing across the sport raises the standard.
@@MattRhodesSport your welcome Matt, and thanks, I just want to see a strict, fair, professional competition
100% agreed
Props to the way the rogue team ran that show. They are definitely dialing in the right way to stream a live strongman event. Loved it. Didn’t get to watch it “live” was watching maybe an hour or so behind - and I was able to rewind the livestream to watch at my own pace. Amazing.
Agreed, they do a great job for the fans.
I do believe Matt is right, referees fall into the presure of the figure infront of em, giving reps that never existed, proof of that is that the same referees are a lot a huge lot more harsh on females competitors
Just be strict and 99% of these problems are gone
I thought it was strange that the commentators didn't mention Shaw Classic or Giants Live maybe they couldn't mention it idk contracts or something maybe, but anywho I enjoyed watching the whole show and I agree the commentators yapping through the athletes competing was very disrespectful ,that needs to change but thank you for this video I've missed your strongman videos and also congrats to Mitchell Hooper
Regards Elisabeth
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
It's such a breath of fresh air to see you calling such topics on your platform Matt, thanks to both of you and just a few points I'd like to make.
1- showing the commentators the whole time instead of the competitors and competitors only makes no sense, I don't know where did this idea came from that people are in any way wants to see commentators faces instead of the performing athletes, let alone that they were doing interviews while athletes are performing which really sucked and disrespectful imo.
2- reffing can either be loose or strict but inconsistent reffing is the worst and I agree with the points you made regarding that.
3- denni's stones or whatever it's called is such a boring and unecessary event.
5- pressing oval stones or atlas stones overhead is both dangerous and boring.
6- 5 events is too few for such title.
All good points mate, thank you for your input.
I can't lie I was really upset that Thor didn't podium, I didn't even realise that he had been deducted a point until I watched this video. But he can still be proud to come back after 4 years off & a nasty injury and make as much of an impact as he did against the best in the world. The potential is definitely there to only improve on that, he's not done yet imo
Absolutely agree mate
This Arnold´s was the best from the last three by far. Still i agree with all your observations, specially that atlehtes should not be zeroing, Thor was far more dominant through the comp that Tom or Mateusz but got 4th. Still i´m happy for the Moose, good champ
Agreed mate
Hello Matt Rhodes, good video. Great points made. I was there great show. Mateusz is my favorite. I met Mitch and bought a shirt. Great young man, made all his fans feel very appreciated. I got some pics with the athletes which I enjoy. Like you guys said Martins is a great sport. I've talked to him a few times and Romark great ambassadors for the sport. All those guys made my weekend great. Love the sport and where it's headed.
Agree on the reffing; although I think they were as fair as can be expected. The real issue was the final stone medley; pressing a round stone overhead is not only unsafe but also redundant after the axle. And a 385 stone over bar is not really huge for these guys so why was that in there? They should have just kept it at the natural stone to shoulder.
I also noticed the commenters talking over the bottom 3 or 4, which was not intended to be rude but shouldnt happen. We really dont need (or want) to hear commentary from the women's winners DURING the men's event. Also we dont need to see the commenter's faces.
Thor had an incredible comeback. Mateusz the bridesmaid again....Licis really had a bad day. Hooper is just on another level and I dont see anyone beating him this year.
Totally agree. Thanks for watching
Also wanted to say it's refreshing to hear a truly independent Strongman channel, most of the others it's obvious they get paid by the organisers so they end up putting out very bland and boring videos because they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Thank you, although I do say it myself I agree :)
Amen big loz is a WSM, giants, Shaw propaganda channel
I also agree.
@@joebot9309Don't be that harsh. Propaganda is too strong of a word. Loz is capable of dishing out criticism. But here comes the but, due to the fact that he has personal connections, and obviously multiple athletes that compete under them, he will tone it down for it to be appropriate.
Good discussion! On the stone press, most guys use a narrow grip under the stone which pretty much makes it impossible to get the head through. Add to that the instability of the stone and the risk of it dropping on your head, it's a good thing that athletes were not required to get the head through. Lock it out with control and it's a good rep.
Glad you enjoyed it. The thing is all the other guys who got that stone overhead also got their head through, I put some examples on screen in this video but I agree it's dangerous and probably a good thing if head through is not a rule.
It’d be nice if most of the field wasn’t beat up. Can you introduce Mateusz to Devon and Vitacell
Stem cells haven't hit strongman in big way yet have they
@@MattRhodesSportonly martins and Magnus that I know of
Mateusz does not need stem cells. Seems well healed. Just needs to get a 430 kg deadlift and there’s no way he loses with how good he is everywhere else. Easily said by a fan 😂
@@-Erebus Didn't both Terry and (from his recommendation) Brian both do stem cell recovery? Terry for a lifting injury and Brian for his hamstring.
@@deathlis no prp is different. Cheaper alternatives to stem cells but still very effective
Thanks love your chats
Glad you like them!
Thanks once again Matt, your content is always well presented and thoughtful. The last event was too involved and should only have been the tombstone; the atlas over the bar in particular was just not needed, perhaps it could have been the dinnie carry followed by the tombstone? A push event was definitely needed for the sake of variety. Was still an excellent contest though.
Thank you! Agreed on everything.
So they took points off Thor after the event but not off Mitch,that says it all. Need to sort those refs ou
Mitch the goat. Dont be salty.
@@northfrenchtribechief5657 mitch is on fire,much respect to him,but rules are for everyone...
Also a bit premature to call him the goat ..
Taking points off after an event is a can of worms
Good to find a channel of this nature talking about strongman, getting into the sport more and more as it grows. Interesting you mentioned Hooper's character a few times and his personality being like Marmite, can you elaborate? Personally I think he's bringing in a new era post Shaw, Thor and Hall where maybe the athletes are more well rounded then 400lb monsters. What do you think?
Glad you enjoy it. Although Thor is a 'monster' I think he was at one point the most well rounded Strongman we have ever seen in 2018.
I remember Tom S said when his coach programs him 2x2 he might do 2x1. So it shows a disconnect between coach and athlete
Interesting, if you don't want to follow your coach I think it's better to get one you do want to follow.
For some reason I didn't find reffing to be that bad at first, maybe because the gal's dumbbell reffing was quite harsh and I liked it. I can't say I liked the event format, for instance I didn't understand why Andrea couldn't go for lighter DB in the last round, it was too long and messy. Back to reffing, yeah (saddly), an usuall business. The rep taken away from Thor was bullshit but so was the down call, but the worst call was Hopper's stone. Good thing, it did't matter much, Mitch could zero this event and still win the whole comp, but stuff like that should not happen.
I also didn't like the podium ceremony not being livestreamed (again, Rogue Invitiational did the same) and the interviews going on during the early stages of guy's comp were just disrespectful. I was really rooting for Oskar and they've been still discussing the girl's comp and didn't seem to care what was happening on the scene. Sure, Oskar was not ready for the competition of this magnitude, but they should still schedule the interviews differently to show the respect.
I wasn't the fan of the events either. Deadlift was fine, a bit repetetive but I'm ok with it, frame was ok (strongwomen actually got proper weight this year), stone walk was just awful to watch, it's fine event for exhibition lifts to show off, not to determine the champion, the axle was great (but as I said, I didn't like the DB format for women), the stones were just overkill, they should have been lighter or there should be a longer break between events, the guys were obviously gassed and exhausted after the axle.
The injury, withdraws and zeroing rate were just cherry on top. I can't say I didn't like the show, it was great, but the value came from the lineup (the overall quality and the comebacks) and decent production value. The judging was meh, the event selection was very meh. For some reason Shaw Classic can be even heavier than Arnold's, but the injury rate and athletes zeroing the events are way less common.
Thank you for your detailed viewpoints on the points discussed.
As great as the Strength Unknown series is. I feel that that series took precedence over Martins training and that lead to him not being as prepared as he could have been for this comp.
And ju-jitsu his mind and passion is no longer entirely with SM
He is just old now man it’s not that hard to understand
Perhaps so, very difficult be fully motivated after winning everything but I hope we see more of him.
A 5 event show should be simple for events.
Push
Pull
Carry
Overhead
Medley
Makes perfect sense.
Previous event winners going last to first is wayyyy better than overall for exactly the point you made. Makes it a better comp and rewards people for individual event performances. Great stuff Matt! Marine Mike 🇺🇸 💪
Cheers buddy. Makes for a better comp that way doesn't it.
Yes sir. Absolutely. Thanks again Matt
I had paid a ton of money for front row and then Arnold comes and takes the whole front row not right
Sorry to hear that, hope you still enjoyed it there, ASC get a lot right usually.
That's not right at all.. no compensation?
That sucks, I have front row seats at the Arnold UK show. Arnold may come sit next to me though, but in front😐
Very douchy move by the organizers honestly
You guys really put into words how I felt with that last event. I was (quite optimistically I admit) hoping for Thor to do a comeback win, in a similar fashion to the Brain Shaw retirement victory. Obviously there was a big bald Canadian between him and victory.
But GODDAMN the stone press just mauled his chances of even a podium finish.
Whatever the case, Mitch deserved his win. Hopefully we'll see Fulthor by summer.
I think we will see that version of Thor soon :)
What did Mitch say last year that was bad or controversial?
Also what happened between Mitch and Matt Rhodes?
Wondering the same thing. I wasn't aware Mitch wasn't popular.
After the win last year the interviewer asked what this meant to him and he said "I'm not sure it means much..."
@@johnred3902 interesting thanks
I agree Mitchell Hooper just rubs accross the wrong way. Easily least popular champion in history
Seriously mate. Massively respect his strength, he's an unbelievable athlete. Up there with the best of all time but I can't stand him. It's weird, I can't even say what it is about him but he's so unlikeable to me. I get on well with anybody too normally 😂
It's his arrogance, and lack of respect towards other athletes, the way he games the system. Great performance, I prefer to watch others.
@@Adam-gn5kh Honestly, I felt similar when watching him in the competition, but in some of his other video's on his channel he is much more likable. I can say I feel like I misjudged him, something about his competition attitude gives this wrong impression which doesn't seem to reflect his real self very much.
@luka188 Yeah I still feel how I feel. But sometimes people don't gravitate towards another and there's just something about him for me. Oh well.
Singleton's wwe gimmicks and all that "lifting angry" are humiliating to watch and seems to hinder he's performance.
A little less showboating would be good for him
Works against him over 2 days
I just wanna ask: Matt Rhodes doesn't associate with King of the table anymore? What did I miss?
Taken a step back
I enjoyed the show. It may not be the best but it is the best live show. It is a good idea to have the women compete because it limits downtime.
Current lineup Mitch is my favorite. I like him because i can relate to him. Mitch and i both have graduate degrees in exercise science so it is incredible to see an athlete approach strongman by looking at the science of the sport. The more he wins the more others will follow what he is doing. I believe overall this will elevate the sport.
ASC is still the pinnacle of Strongman I think.
@MattRhodesSport I couldn't agree more. I can't remember the last time I watched or even cared about wsm. I would love to watch the shaw classic but I don't know if I want to pay for a stream that may not work. The invitation fought the weather and made bad choices.
@@MattRhodesSport with this being the start of the season and having some of the athletes having bad days or pulling out, how do you think the rest of the year will go?
@@thepanmancoast I think the Arnolds UK line up will change quite a bit now. Overall I think things will be fine this year, strongman will always be full of injuries by nature of how it is.
I was there just got home the weight weren't right to many injuries other than that grate show
Glad you enjoyed it there mate!
20:42 I agree with your scoring analysis. I have a question tho. It felt like they were trying to streamline the show as much as possible with one tactic being to have the show be as minimalistic as possible. One implement on the stage at a time, maybe a few stones like we saw in the last event/medley. Could this be to save time in production as well as it making the event easier to film, produce, logistics, etc.
Yes I think so and I think it works well that way, clean and easy to view.
15:52 as you guys discussed, requiring a lockout on stones is a tough ask and very dangerous. When it comes to the axel I would like to see the athletes perform a complete lockout. Admittedly this helped my favorite athlete in the event get their second win in a row… and firmly kicked Hathor off the podium… which was what I would have liked to see. It’s good for the sport when Hathor is around and winning! With that said I am glad they took the point from Hathor because it does show the judges are looking to be fair with their biggest stars.
But taking points after f-cks up their perfomance, Thor could very well go for a full lock, or try another rep
Huge problems with taking points off after the event in my opinion.
Good points as always. Mitch is supergood athlete, but they really need to tell him to do proper lockouts. Both Rogue Log and this (stone medley) was really bad reps. It sets a bad standard and to make it fair either he correct the form/judges or every guy will lower their standards to this. However it didnt work the same way with Thors Axle rep, which was superweird.
Cheer mate. Has to be consistent doesn't it.
I fully agree with previous event winner goes last. It would give guys who are specialists a better fighting chance and make the competitions less "over" until it is really over. As always the best guy on the day will still win and i don't think this change would cause anything unfair, just more excitement for the fans and more incentive for the competitors.
I also agree with not talking over lifts. There is so much downtime in strongman, maybe the most of any sport (apart from american fotball hehe) and you should treat the competitors of this extreme sport with the utmost respect in the tiny window of performance even if they are at the bottom of the tables. You even had guys there who knew the struggle of being damn strong but it still wasn't enough to have a shining strongman career. They if anyone should have some input of the competitors AROUND the lift atleast.
brutal comp. the combination of Max deadlift, frame, and dinnie stones is brutal. Generally weight in hands at these insane weights is more taxing on the body than the other heavy events and they did 3 back to back. The boys had to dig deep on that axle and they were gassed by the time they got to the stones. Lots of zeros on these events in classic Arnold style.
Very brutal, it's why for me it's the real WSM.
Ton is improving all the time, because he is a genetic powerhouse and puts in the graft, he should be up there with Hooper. His programme still isn't focusing enough on general conditioning and weakneses, especially grip. Hopefully this will be a wake up call.
Agree, but I doubt if he will make a change of coach now.
Sometimes we forget that Tom is Autistic, which means his brain is wired in a different way, so when he says he may do something different to what his coach has said, maybe his coach already knows this. His coach has worked with him for a long time and knows him well. Tom has got better and better and he is still young. This was the first time he’d been to an event without his big brother for support which for someone who is autistic is a big thing, change can really mess with their heads. Finally so many competitions have been won or lost on the final event, all Thor needed to do was lock out on the stone and he couldn’t so he dropped from 2nd to 4th. That’s competition for you, the 2 competitors chasing him both managed it. So when you say finishing 4th wasn’t a fair representation of his performance I strongly disagree. The competition is over 5 events, you have to perform in every event. Thor failed the 5th event and paid the price. Tom didn’t and took 3rd from him. Overall the events were not Toms best events outside of the axle of which he came joint second. Mitch had the advantage of knowing what he had to do to win. Had it been the other way round, Tom or Matius may have got that 5th rep instead. I don’t believe Mitch would have done 5 reps had he come out before Tom & Matius. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, Hooper is the best tactician out of all the strongmen and that’s why he wins. He obviously ridiculously strong but not necessarily the strongest just the best at knowing what to do. This is Thor’s first event back, he’s bound to make mistakes, he was always going to win the deadlift (he’s been powerlifting whilst not doing strongman) The fact is he ran out of steam, the axle cost him and he couldn’t put the stone above his head. Will Thor improve absolutely, will Tom perform better when his brother is there absolutely. Is Mitch the best in the world right now absolutely. Do I think Mitch will retain his WSM title, that all depends on the events and whether he can get his nose out in front, if he can yes because he’ll know what he needs to achieve and becomes unbeatable, if he doesn’t and Tom is last out Tom will win it. Is this going to be an exciting year for strongman without doubt regardless of who your favourite is you have to respect every one of these powerhouses
The problem for Mateusz is there are a lot of athletes who doesn't have weaknesses (When they are fully fit). Hafthor, Licis and Hooper comes to mind. If Thor improves his overhead and conditioning he is back to his best. At this point in time Mateusz would need to get lucky to win a mayor comp. Hooper needs to get injured or something like that (Not wishing an injury on anyone). Mateusz will never be able to catch up 9 points against the likes of Hooper, if Hooper does not make a massive mistake somewhere along the line. The only solution is for Mateusz to get better at deadlifting. He needs to add at least 30kg to his max deadlift. Or become good at reps, but getting good at reps means your max also needs to be higher.
I think we won't always have deadlift at ASC, Squat replaced it a couple years back.
27:38 s thank you for pointing this out.
Welcome :)
Thanks Matt
Welcome mate
Correct decision second rep
Was dodgy and Magnus did not approve only the other referee. I’m all other reps Magnus also approved with white sign not in this one.
Decision was correct, nobody disputing that. It's the can of worms that opens up if results can be amended after each event
Agree on the rep, but disagreeing on removing it post event. A down signal is a down signal and it's the responsibility of the ref to give clear signs.
Only one secondary judge gave the signal the other secondary and the main did not. Like in football there are the line judges and the main one and the main does not always agree and his decision is the only binding. Magnus did not have the signal I saw it in the footage. There was never given and taken back rep. End of controversy which is great
@@spikeyspike79 absolutely not correct, I have just watched it again, the main ref who stands up and walks in-front of each athlete to signal them the down call in their line of site gave it to Thor. That's also why the points were added to the board and stayed there all through to the end of the event. The acknowledgement and down signal from the main ref was also why the commentary team all agreed it was given at the time.
Hopper didn’t lift it. And he was not gonna be able to . This is a major issue on scoring
Hopefully it is fixed for next time. He was still the clear winner
Win by a mile or an inch a win is a win.
I don’t enjoy Mitchel Hooper at all. The uber popular lifters seem to get clearly more lenient calls. I didn’t rewatch but on the timber carry it looked like he was already going on down signal. When a popular guy comes, it seems to rob all the hard work from everyone else. If Mitchel did indeed head start on timber carry and then zero on final event, MK could have won.
@@Phearless7485 always haters accept the fact no one was going to catch him just because he did all events better than most.
Could have won….but didn’t let me guess he should have won the deadlift too might as well give him a podium to take home.
@@Phearless7485 he’s popular because he’s been the most dominant athlete we’ve ever seen over the course of any year much less his first year. The real downside to being a “popular“ athletes is people will start to hate you because of how successful you are. If you can’t appreciate what Mitch is doing I don’t see how you are a fan of strongman.
thank you, thank you, thank you for saying that Tom needs a better coach. Tom needs a better coach.
So many say it
@@MattRhodesSport I'm so outside of the strongman fandom or commentary that I don't really hear much of what people are thinking. I just train, diet, and enjoy competitions. It's nice to hear others think the same thing.
I think that with Hooper one of the reasons he is flying compared to his competitors is that he never had serious injury. I wish him and other athletes healthy career and life but we all know that if there was an injury it affects not only body performance but also mind. You tend to take less risk in training and competition than before. Licis himself said that. Martins had an injury, Hafthor had pec tear, Mateusz triceps and bad medical treatment unfortunately, Novikov elbow, Tom's had some and list goes on. Congrats to Hooper for winning, huge achievement for him. I was rooting for Mateusz, Tom, Oskar and Martins.
Same opinion on Martins as you guys and also I would add Novikov, I dont see them winning big competition again. Little bit like Eddie Hall, they grabbed win when everything aligned perfectly.
And this gives me hope Mateusz will win something (although he said he will retire after winning 1 time WSM and 1 time Arnold's, so fans would need to accept that). When events will be matching his strenghts like squat instead of deadlift etc., no health issues, full training cycle done, he will win. Also, he (like every other athlete) needs some help from other athletes meaning that they will take points from each other in some events.
As for the show itself, true, person who knows and loves strongman is needed as permanent part of the commentary team. Whoever that might be, Bill Kazmaier, Odd Haugen, Big Loz, Rob Kearney, Robert Oberst or other person. Also, no point in making show that heavy when half of the athletes makes zero reps. It is for audience, fans, so better to have weaker athletes make 1 or 2 reps then 0 and stronger like 5 or more. Arnold's is not even heaviest when we have Shaw Classic. It needs to be heavier than WSM but not that heavy. More entertainment and less risk of injuries.
For Rogue Invitational my dream would be 2 commentary teams and separated transmissions, one for strongman and strongwoman and another one for crossfit.
Thank you for your input, some good viewpoints there.
I think the comp organization or the referees should have the possibility to own a mistake and disallow reps after the fact but it should then be done before the next competitor starts the ongoing event! Like in many sports where referees have the possibility to review plays (football, tennis, etc.).
I have just pinned my comment at the top in response to this subject.
There needs to be a rep challenge either by coaches or athletes
Interesting but really it's till too late by that time unfortunalety
Where have you got the idea that 'the head has to go through' on the stone press? I was under the impression (from commentary on that event in the past) that the arms just needed to be locked out enough, and the stone stabilised. And the reason they don't require the head through is because doing so can be dangerous if the stone is dropped.
💯 Correct
I wonder If your body doesn't have to be anywhere even near upright and head doesn't have to come through why are all the other athletes doing it?
( By what you are saying, in theory if the weight was manageable they could just hold it out straight in front of themselves like a front hold - if it's only about arms straight and control and not about head and body position been factors of a valid lift?)
I'll re-check though to see the stipulations.
@@MattRhodesSport whoever manages to do a front hold with a round 300lbs stone definitely deserves to be given the rep
@@allylilith5605 good to see some people with sensible comments on this.
@@MattRhodesSport has to be above head height but head does not need to be directly under the stone, it's overhead with elbows locked and stable. Pretty obvious the point that's been made so that front hold retort comes as across as just been contentious imo.
As a fan I wouldn't want to pay money to see events where multiple athletes can't even do one lift. I think I heard Loz or Mitch say that ideally you want an event where 1/3 of the athletes can't do one rep, 1/3 struggle and 1/3 do well - I DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT. I want there to be no more than 1 athlete who can't complete a rep.
Agreed, that's why a lighter option or points for half reps - clean/lapping etc work great.
@@MattRhodesSport Or instead of 400 pounds make it 350 or 375
I feel like martins lost his hunger to win.
It could be that and understandable. But, I hope he comes back.
He got demolished
He is more concerned about travelling the world for months on end and not being able to nearly properly train, eat sleep etc…
I will agree with the events that they are too similar. And next thing is that you have same movement in two events in row. Deadlift and just after frame carry where you also need to get of the ground some serious weights. Next day you have axel for reps and next event is also pushing stone overhead.
Yeah, when only 5 events it's a good idea to have clear differences, a push event would have been good here I think.
@@MattRhodesSport Yes. Strongnan is a sport with such a variety of possible events😅 you can mix pull -> push -> throw -> carry -> loading
At the time of my posting here, yet to hear Thor's Day 2 reaction... that is a very difficult and tough readjustment that the officials gave him. I'm sure he was extremely shocked and disappointed.... shades of world's strongest man 2017?
Think about it this way, if he had that rep he would have gotten third, which doesn’t matter that much anyway since his goal is to be the best. So I don’t think he’s that beat up about it.
he talked on it in todays video, hes just happy to be back and competing, and looking forward to doing better next time. He wasnt salty.
Hopefully he's motivated by this comp. The main thing is he's clearly well on the way to been back in a big way.
What was the comments that mitch said last year?
I agree with most of this and great independent content that keeps it honest.
But will mention that with hoopers stone lift.
Apparently the athletes were told arms locked out only head doesn't need to come through as a safety/mobility issues.
The rep taken from Thor was bullshit after the fact, it should have been done right then and there.
And yeah toooo similar events made it a bit boring to watch... well kinda still watched it all but yeah more diversity is needed i a 5 event show
Body upright with arms close to locked overhead and implement stable are usually essential. I'm not sure why those rules would not be that ay here.
Matt, what’s your opinion on Oskar? He is a very capable athlete but this lineup was crazy and he said he picked up an injury. I hope that he can recover and prove that he deserves big comp invites.
He will be back, a big talent who was really up against it with these athletes and events. People don't realise how well Markov did in his first carrying a big injury.
When you only have 5 events and 2 involve carrying that is a VERY POOR choice of events in my opinion
A push event in pace of one of them probably would have been a nicer balance.
@@MattRhodesSport Many shows have had truck pulls - why not do a truck push ? That could be done indoors with a pickup truck and if the truck is too light just add some weights in the back
@@reallymysterious4520 Yes cool. First ever ASC was flat tyre Hummer push!
@@MattRhodesSport When i was young I remember watching on TV the first or second ever WSM which Bruce Wilhelm won and among others he beat Lou Ferrigno and Franco Columbo ! One of the events was that they had to carry a fridge on their back - the fridges had special handles made on either side. I believe they also had a wheelbarrow push and the event which I liked most was where they had to bend a steel bar
@@reallymysterious4520 Yes, you remember well mate
After watching the Arnold it seemed quite clear that the points system needs to be revised, during this video you bring up some great points about how athletes should respond tactically in regards to lifts taken away when down signals were given, changing the points system means athletes no longer need to chase other athletes results.
I have a draft written up but basically the points system should not be 10 for 1st 9 for 2nd etc, its painfully clear that gaps in performance are not fairly separated by one point gaps and that the placing system is critically flawed to the point where athletes can tactically place between competitors instead of performing their best.
Specialists in events get the absolute minimal advantage, for example if Thor lifted 500kg and 2nd place lifts 430kg currently there would be one point advantage, so the athlete who can lift more simply doesnt as theres literally no point to do so.
There absolutely should be more points for exceptional performance its what the crowd wants to see first and foremost, for example Mateusz should have a huge points haul for stone to shoulder.
Having only 5 events really exacerbates the tactical side of things too, an early lead could be impossible to catch but if the points were performance based instead then it would be very possible to catch an early lead and a shorter number of events is no longer a problem.
So for race events there should be at least 5/10 points awarded for completion and an extra one or two for the fastest time segments and one extra for the winner, with one point given for athletes who managed any distance and an extra one for over half distance, so athletes not completing the course would give away points but athletes capable of finishing the course arent going to finish down in 8th place because 7 others finished a second quicker, its strongest man not fastest man and currently the points heavily rewards the fastest man and it should be the opposite.
Max lift events should reward 10 points for a near world record lift and 1 point increments on logical weight progressions like 10kg in a deadlift, for example 370-400kg = 1 point - 400-420kg = 1 point and every 10kg after = 1 point
Athletes can do their best and get more points based on how strong they are not how well they place, it makes it even more interesting tactically because there is the potential for someone to pull back a lot of points
I think you are right about the wheel of pain it wouldve been much better with it
I think the drive for needing a rep to win vs not needing a rep to win is a massive difference. Hooper would have crushed it if he needed a rep to win. You see it time and again with athletes not in contention on the last event.
Yep, much less motivation when already won. Would have been interesting to see if he could shoulder it.
Not sure if this is correct place to ask but does any one know when tickets sales for Rogue Invitational Scotland start?
Sign up here and you will get a notification when they go on sale www.roguefitness.com/invitational
Thanks@@MattRhodesSport
May God bless yall ✝️
You too
Tom 39:03 now you got me going. I'll keep my eyes on it.
True❤
That one rep literally cost Thor a podium spot.
Yep, deducted 1 point and missed out by a half point.
Mitch "no reps" Pooper and controversial lifts arent a new thing. In Rogue invitational those refs cost Tom's potential win.
Bitch Hooper can win a 100 events and still be unlikable.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Strict refereeing would take away 99% of issues in the sport. Where's Big Z at?..
Metuz really needs to work on deadlift😢.i always believe tom will top 3 in Arnold ❤and thor is amazing ❤
He works on it
@MattRhodesSport What do you think of Hooper's axel press performance? He is the only one using a totally different technique on the lift and he won it. As far as I'm aware that split jerk technique he used takes a lot less strength to do than the strict press form the other athletes were using. Any idea if the other athletes knew that this technique was allowed? Do you think that it should be forbidden since its not a shoulder press?
He can do that within the rules I think, Kearney always used the split technique on the log. There's a skill to it.
The other athletes werent strict pressing either, more of a push press and both allowed. Strongman is usually move weight from A to B. Rules are more relaxed about how you go about it.
I'm gonna disagree with thing about Tom tho Tom I'd say has proven people wrong by podiuming on the Arnold's he got further on frame than he done before, got further on Dinnies (BTW Nicol stones are lighter) than he done before and deadlift is a PB for him, I think Axle settled it for him he knew what needed to do
I think he did really well and has improved. Just believe he could do even better when looking at a technical aspect over the last few years which has clearly been more limiting for him than his strength.
Yes but I don't think it's a big indication of him massively improving. His frame stayed the same, incomplete. He pb on the deadlift by 5lbs, he was good on dinnies. Axle we know is a good event and stones, did well but failed the tombstone again. If Thor wasn't injured and had his usual overhead Tom would've finished nowhere near the podium. That isn't saying its not deserved, Thor couldn't perform in that event on the day but my point is his podium spot isn't an indication of big improvement. It was solely because of another athletes injury. Tom has big improvements to make but it's good as he can get even better than he already is.
@Adam-gn5kh Tom admitted he wanted to improve his placing first and even tho Frame wasn't complete it was enough to stay within the podium range we gotta remember he has another arnold in space or week or 2 weeks. He still has time to win arnolds just needs to keep improving which he is. That stone medley I keep is it really necessary to have 3 stones because know one was able to shoulder the tombstone
@petershortland478 A lot of the guys were beat up. Mainly my point mate is that at 💯 Thor could've matched him on the axle and probably done the tombstone, he's done it multiple times before. So even though Tom made the podium, that might not be the case next time with another athlete who can also make quick improvements due to muscle memory and being injury free. He still has work to do, but I do think he'll win the Arnold eventually. I think Tom has too much raw talent to never do it, just needs to really work on those weaknesses and bring it all together on the day.
@@Adam-gn5kh definitely Tom does have talent depends on his head on the day as well
No matter whether you're happy or not with any aspect of this show, at least Rogue has an awesome free stream and we can go back and watch it anytime we want!
Well said, they and ASC are great for the sport
Refereeing was on quite a few occasions VERY questionable, i am disappointed and very sorry for the Athletes involved. I don`t believe it was coincidences ! ! !
Just get much stricter and they would solve 99% of the the issues
Hooper gets passes on his dumbell lifts as well. His body is almost at a 90 degree angle. Hooper is strong and good. But he needs to be held to the same standards.
100% true