I am kind of surprised 45 Special wasn't mentioned as it was removed from Wildcat status years before this video was made. I have 460, 454, 45 Colt firearms. In the Raging Hunter 460, I shoot 5 different rounds: 460S&W Mag, 454 Casull, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, and 45 Special. I am very aware of the bullet jump distances to the forcing cones, as well as cylinder burn from shorter cartridges. I don't shoot 50 rounds of 45 Special, then throw in a 460Mag because of this. Do remember that cylinder burn is very minor with 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, and 45 Special is the very low pressures. Just clean the cylinders good before running 454 and 460 through them again. Great video and the information is timeless.
--- *Please do one about "The Ammo Type Confusion," which covers the slew of acronyms such as HST, JHP, FMJ, SWC, +P, Mag, etc.* --- I'm buying my first gun (Walther CCP M2) soon, and while I'm a bit familiar with some of the acronyms out there due to video games (like Fallout: New Vegas with the FOOK and Project Nevada mods, as well as the Arma mil sims), some things you guys rattle off I've never even heard of like "HST." I saw a list of .45 ACP ammo once for a ballistics chart, and I was blown away by how many acronyms I didn't recognize.
@@pj7362 You must be an Know it ALL Idiot Republi-cant Russian Troll!!! @Goattacular You asked a perfectly good question about all of the acronyms, which can be confusing even to experienced shooters/gun owners!! I have owned Firearms for almost 30 years, And I even get confused by the acronyms at times and have to look them up to know what they mean.
You've basically got FMJ - full metal jacket, which is generally military and target ammo, and hollowpoint, which is marketed under many different brand names. Those are the two basic types, but there are also niche types, such as solids and frangibles.
Yes and no. The Schofield cartridge has a slightly larger rim diameter than .45 Colt, so when you tried to load it in an SAA chambered in .45 Colt, you could only fit 3 because you had to leave an empty space between cartridges for rim clearance. At the same time, you couldn't load Colt into a Schofield revolver, which was a logistical problem for the army since they had both pistol types issued. They came up with the "M1887 Military Ball" cartridge, which had the shorter length of the Schofield cartridge, and the rim diameter of the Colt, so one ammo type could work in both issued pistols. This is the origin of the "Long Colt" misnomer, because in the vernacular of the day they were often referred to as short colt and long colt.
Watched this yesterday and it turned out to be quite timely. Son-in-law was considering buying a new lever gun in 45-70. So I was able to tell him about the pros and cons of the cartridge / black powder / reloading for 45-70. Thanks guys!
it isnt the middle of the ghetto, it's right off 75. And automatics can only be sold with a class 3. Moss can sell them but arrowhead, which is just up the road, cant.
I used to live around 3 miles from moss, it's not that bad, but it's not like it used to be. It gets worse the closer you get to the city. Moss is a small shop but they have nice stuff
I think the .45 short round you were looking for is the .45 Schofield, issued to the army in the 1870s to fit the Smith & Wesson Schofield revolver. Thanks for the video.
OK, I played it back enough times to identify the time stamp at 23:34 as the point at which you utterly misidentified the rifle cartridge, the .458 Winchester Magnum as the handgun cartridge, the .45 Winchester Magnum. Way back when, two proprietary cartridges were developed, the 9mm Winchester Magnum and the .45 Winchester Magnum. Unfortunately, the handguns to use the cartridges didn't materialize. The 9 slipped into obscurity, but the .45 found usage in a stretched 1911 style pistol, the Grizzly. Of course I figured out quickly that you were talking about the .458 WM when I saw the cartridge on the table.
Hey Eric, watching your video today had me feeling like I was back in school and I’ve been out of school sense 1980. Thanks for the history lesson it was very informative and I learned a lot. 🤙🏾
I know this is a few years old but, I'm happy to see you guys dive into the middle of the .45 Caliber confusion mess. Our Troopers downgraded to 9mm. In 2017, the South Carolina Highway Patrol issues the 9mm Glock Model 17M. Troopers were previously issued the Glock Model 37 .45 GAP and the Glock Model 22 .40 S&W.[11] The last revolver used was the Smith & Wesson Model 66 .357 magnum (Supposedly to go through the radiator and/or engine block, to stop a vehicle) which is a derivative of the Smith & Wesson Model 19
Love the mention of the Ruger#1. My father has terrorized several ranges with his handloads for a Ruger #3. All within sammi specs. But most people have never experienced that level of stomp. You just hope they don’t drop the rifle
My papa uses the Ruger #1 loads from the Barnes loading manual for his .45-70 H&R handi rifle. Showing 2800fps with a 250gr bullet and 2500fps with a 300 grain
I really like these videos it's hard to get into such an in depth conversation like this when most people simply don't know this much about cartridges or have the interest.
Hey I heard that Glock names their models based on the patents used for them. Even if true it still doesn't help clear up any of the confusion to the consumer that's for sure.
The model numbers are patent numbers on Glocks. And, the reason its confusing to people is because people have a misconception that a model number should describe the weapon. Who labels their weapons with descriptive model numbers. If Glock is bad I would think Smith and Wesson be more confusing........ J frame, x frame, n frame, l frame, 342, 642, 36, etc . What does it all mean? If all else fails, you can always look on the slide or barrel and it will have the caliber stamped on it.
Very technical based, but informative beyond that, and the ending/hunting/hippo stuff made it humorous and agreeable. As a late bloomer to gun rights and firearms (6 yrs). I appreciate videos 5hat educate me on things that not only involve my choice of firearms and calibers. I also appreciate the history of it all and the 2nd Amendment stand. Thank you and your channel
Keep in mind that shooting .45ACP in a .455 Webley is equivalent to a proof test every time you pull the trigger. The Webleys were designed for a much lower CUP than the ACP del;ivers. More so on the Mark I (1887-1894) that were designed for black powder, though most of those were reproofed for cordite starting around the turn of the century. The later version will stand up to it... until they don't. You can reload ACP or Auto Rim cases to a lower pressure and with the right recipe and, IMO, they shoot better than the original Mark I or II ammo. More importantly, they are safe... for the revolver and they person shooting it.
@@dallasdinglewood1091 in the lever gun it says it can run .460 S&W, .454 casull, and .45 Colt. The colts have a tendency to hang up though if not cycled properly.
@@derikledford3969 Interesting... yeah I'm still a long way from getting one but thats a decent list. .454 Casull out of it would be adequate for anything I can imagine. I hope that company does well, they seem to do some cool stuff.
The Glock model number is based on the patent number designated for that model that went in to production. First Glock patent that went into production, the 17.
Would love a glock confusion video. Would also like a Smith and Wesson revolver confusion video. Don't have to go over every model number, just the more common ones would be great.
Misspeak at 23:37. Named the .458 Winchester Magnum, the .45 Winchester Magnum, which was an actual cartridge. It was available in the Grizzly pistols which were based on the 1911.
I had to stop at knock down power. So that was 1:16 I lasted this video. Muzzle energy between 9mm and .45acp are surprisingly close in stock loading. After having seen some of the maths and that the solution is, any pistol cartridge is really only there to help you get to your rifle, makes clear that any argument about subjective knock down power is a waste of time. It was an unnecessary distraction from the core discussion and served to drive this viewer away. I generally really enjoy your content.
.45 Colt is still one of the very best .45 cartridges all these years later. It's not too much, not too little, gets the job done admirably with the right bullet loaded. Enough power to slam end-to-end through a big animal or downloaded enough to make a day plinking with a SAA super fun. Not too long to reduce magazine capacity in a lever gun, not too short to be ballistically whimpy. Easy to reload. Easy to get a huge host of bullet types. Easy to get guns chambered for it.
I can say I love shooting my Ruger Blackhawk in .45! When I got it didn't have the extra cylinder to shoot .45acp, but purchased one and had a friend that machined it to fit. I need to test it more though with the .45acp cylinder. My favorite rounds to run through it are the Buffalo Bore .45 Long Colt +P's.
I was talking to my cousin right around the time he became a NYS Trooper. They just switched from the 17 to the 37 but then my range director said Troopers were begging to go back to the 17. NOT for mag cap (although the 17 holds between 17-33 rounds) but for the fact that G.A.P. was NOWHERE & 9X 19 was EVERYWHERE. My FFL had ONE box of Long Colt that costs TWICE as much as ACP. So I put 5 rounds through my Governor (I have the Stainless that I first saw on here) and I saved the remaining 45. If I were to fire the 460 I'd prefer the rifle for the fact that the revolver I hold with two HANDS, the rifle I hold with two ARMS & one SHOULDER.
On the rifle comment for .460 S&W... 20ga shotgun, some sabot slugs are actually .460 bullets loaded into sabot sleeves (and some 12ga sabot slugs are .45-70 bullets loaded in sabot sleeves). One example is the Winchester Dual Bond, one of my favorite bullets out there.
Was disappointed that the 460 Rowland or 45 Lar Grizzly Win Mag were not mentioned, they being basically a 45 ACP mag & super mag, & treading on the 44 magnum territory (or in the case of the 45 Lar Grizzly Win Mag stomping all over it).
I don't recall you guys ever going over a .45lc or any SAA revolvers (or ammo) and wondered if it's even possible to do a .45lc replica comparison between the Uberti, Cimmeron, Taylor and Pieta versions? if not no biggy and thanks for another confusion video
I almost bought the 460 this week,but decided to go 45-70 in rifle and revolver.I shoot a lot of black powder,so it has the case capacity to give 3-405 grain slugs some speed
The GAP to the ACP is the 40 S&W to the 10mm. An APC with moon clips in a revolver is effective and fast in reloading. The 454 was a wildcat pumped up LC. My 5” 460 is faster in velocity to my 45-70 1886. They are absolutely right about watching what 45-70 loads you shoot in different actions. Be careful. Diminishing returns come quick in long cases. 375 H&H and up in Africa. The 458 Win Mag fell short for Africa. Hence the Lott and the Edge. Doubling the bullet weight at a given velocity doubles the energy. Doubling the velocity at a given bullet weight quadruples the energy.
Guy I went shooting with brought a box of .45 Colt to shoot in his new Colt 1911. Needless to say he was rather confused when he couldn’t jam the rounds in the magazine.
I have a bunch of those in the shop in the back corner the 458 Win Mag I think they have 600 Nitro in them? But I have some that are a little shorter the guy who lives here he is 90 used to load ammo back in the 60s and 70s 80s 90s he used to hunt in Africa can't seem to find anybody that wants to buy them
Hey Eric. I have somewhere, and I'll look for it, a cartridge very similar to a .45-70 but the case is somewhat shorter. There was no really discernable headstamp on the slightly tapered case but the bullet was a .452 dia. as measured in the case (I didn't disassemble them). I asked a few local cartridge experts, some were self-proclaimed, what the cartridge was and the only guess I received was that it was a quite rare 11.5mm Arabian. Never really found anything on it. Perhaps some of your readers might know. If I can locate, I'll give complete specs.
The .45 GAP was designed at a time where people wanted smaller and lighter .45 Caliber guns and didnt want to go to a new service pistol in 9x19. In short, it's designed to give .45 ACP +P ballistics in a smaller and lighter gun. I've got a Glock 39 with a +2 baseplate extension, so got a real tiny package with 8 shots of a round equal to .45 ACP at it's worst and .45 ACP +P at standard loads, with some +P .45 GAP loads capable of being .45 ACP +P+. Frankly... There's not much confusion with any of the calibers here. Most all of these are .455 .454, or .451 caliber projectiles. All of which are mostly interchangeable with each other as far as being able to load into another case like say a .454 projectile into a .45 ACP which typically uses a .455 diameter. You see this for example when looking at the differences between some .45 Super and .460 Rowland loads. Some companies use .454 diameter instead of .455 because most .455 caliber bullets dont hold up at the velocities the .45 Super and .460 Rowland generate. Now I dont think it takes a genius to realize that you cant load something like say... .45 Colt into a. 45 ACP gun and the likes or load .45 ACP into a .45 Colt gun unless of course it's been cut for moon clips or has an interchangeable cylinder, but most importantly the gun is rated to handle it. I have a Taurus Raging Judge Magnum with a 6 1/2 inch barrel that I've had cut for moon clips that I can shoot just about everything you have on that table. 3 inch .410, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .45 Schofield, .455 Webley, .45 GAP, .45 ACP, .45 Super/SMC, .460 Rowland, .45 Win Mag, I know it can shoot .444 Marlin and even .303 British depending on the powder charge. Ultimately again, there's no real confusion here... never met anybody who believes .45 ACP is the same as .45 Colt, however some old timers call .45 Colt the .45 Long Colt as a way to distinguish it from .45 ACP which is also sometimes called .45 Colt by them. But that's more a case of their terminology is messed up or making the confusion vs there being actual confusion about what can fired from what and what goes with what. Ultimately this is about as "confusing" as .44 Magnum being a .429 diameter bullet.
"The .45 GAP was designed at a time where people wanted smaller and lighter .45 Caliber guns and didnt want to go to a new service pistol in 9x19." The .45 GAP wasn't designed based on anything that was wanted by a significant number of people. It just came out of the blue and the response from most people was, "WTF?" I remember reading posts about it on gun forums when it was released in 2003 and most people thought it was an answer to a question that nobody ever asked. It had a few defenders though.
@@MaximRecoil It kinda was because of that reason. A lot of departments were looking at switching to 9mm's and .40 S&W's because they were smaller and had better capacity. A lot of officers liked the .45 ACP, a lot disliked it because it's poor reputation for not getting through auto bodies and other barriers. Glock saw this, made a higher pressure .45 caliber round, offered it in smaller and lighter frames like people were looking at and had hopes it would catch like wild fire. The problem is, it didnt.. LEO's had no major interest because it gave less capacity than some of the .45's they currently had in service and less capacity than .40 S&W which was offering comparable ballistics in the same length barrels and bullet weights. Reloaders didnt like it because it wasnt designed around the 230gr bullets and they wanted it to be, which Glock later did but then people didnt see a point as now it was identical to 230gr .45 ACP so why bother getting a new round? It was an answer to what some people wanted, plus as they said in the video Glock probably wanted to get something with his name on it to make big bucks. While not hugely popular in the US, it's fairly popular across Europe and parts of South America. Namely places where civilians arent allowed to own "military cartridges" with the .45 ACP being considered that. Kinda like how down in Mexico .38 Super is pretty big.
@@Predalien195 When most police departments started switching to revolvers to automatics in the late 1980s, it was mainly to 9mm "wonder nines". The Beretta 92 was probably the most popular choice, with the SIG P226 being probably the second most popular choice, and one of the third-generation S&W 9mm autos being probably the third most popular. The .45 ACP has never been a popular cartridge among police. Among the relatively few departments that used it, the SIG P220 and a third-generation S&W were probably the most common (this was before Glock decided to buy the police market by being able to sell their $75 plastic pistols far cheaper than anyone else could sell their non-plastic pistols). In any case, since .45 was never a popular round among police departments, there was no great clamoring for something along the lines of the .45 GAP. If the .45 GAP could have resulted in increased capacity, it might have gone somewhere, but it couldn't, because it is just as fat of a cartridge as the .45 ACP is, obviously. You can make the grip a little narrower (from front strap to back strap), but it has to be just as fat as a typical double-stack .45 ACP grip (from right side to left side) to get the same capacity (13 or 14 rounds). If you make it less fat like a double-stack 9mm grip, you end up with only say, 10 rounds, which isn't a great improvement on the 8 round capacity of a single-stack .45, which can be made narrower than even a double-stack 9mm grip.
@@MaximRecoil I wouldnt say it was never popular amongst departments. I know a lot of departments that used .45 ACP handguns and some that still do. But dont get me wrong, I'm well aware of how/where the GAP failed in the market. I have a G39 with a +2 baseplate for 8 rounds in a very tiny and compact gun. But part of what made the GAP not go anywhere was the fact Glock made the G21 and other double stack .45 ACP guns. They killed their own market in the US anyways. Like I said, pretty popular over in Europe and parts of South America. It has a lot of potential but it's never going to fully see it as nobody is going to invest in the concept anymore. If it could have offered double stack capacities like the .45 ACP guns then yes it would have done much better. But like I said, ballistics are similar to .40 S&W with the same weight bullets and barrel lengths, yet .40 S&W can get better capacity generally speaking.
I thought of a fun idea. You should load different bullets into different casings with the same diameter. Ex. A 5.56 into a 22 cartridge ext. This would be interesting to see how they fire larger bullets into smaller or larger casings. I was looking at ammo diameter charts and thought this idea up and how fun and interesting that would be and how true or wanky the bullets would fire
I picked up the 450 Bushmaster in the AR configuration from the War in Rhodesia following Vietnam. It’s basically an 45-70 in a AR configuration with the danger of extremely dangerous predators along with the Communist it was reassuring to have them in the hostile environment
Make “the .50 confusion” 50 AE, 50 GI, 500 magnum, 510 beck, 500 nitro express, 50 Beowulf, 12.7x108, 12.7x55, and of coarse 50 BMG.
.50 BMG Derringer, anyone?
@@ChaplainDaveSparks yes please
50bmg is 12.7x99 :)
Don't forget 500 auto max
coarse
Great history lesson on the venerable 45 caliber cartridges!! .451, .452, .454, .455, .457, .458 bore diameters!
I have a .457 WWG and it is a .45-70 that is taller. A .45-90 slightly trimmed down.
I'm waiting for them to come out with a .4507 diameter one before I jump on the bandwagon
im voting for the glock confusion
Yes
It needs to be done. Please include a comedy sketch to demonstrate, kind of a “who’s on first?” type intro.
plus one for the glock confusion
Never been a glock boy. Never owned 1. Now looking at them and the number system is crazy confusing. That would make a great video.
Hell yea that be a great vid lol ahahhahahah
I am kind of surprised 45 Special wasn't mentioned as it was removed from Wildcat status years before this video was made. I have 460, 454, 45 Colt firearms. In the Raging Hunter 460, I shoot 5 different rounds: 460S&W Mag, 454 Casull, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, and 45 Special.
I am very aware of the bullet jump distances to the forcing cones, as well as cylinder burn from shorter cartridges. I don't shoot 50 rounds of 45 Special, then throw in a 460Mag because of this.
Do remember that cylinder burn is very minor with 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, and 45 Special is the very low pressures. Just clean the cylinders good before running 454 and 460 through them again.
Great video and the information is timeless.
I must say I'd never heard of the .45 special. I'll have to look into that.
Just checked it out. Thanks for the info.
It's actually the 45 Cowboy Special cartridge. Starline makes brass, and you use 45 Automatic load data.
You have to be “special” to [accept] em.
I had a Colt 45 once, not the best malt liquor around.
AND 2 zig zags.
I was going to comment, but then I got high. Wait?
It’s best at the park after dark.
Lol
It's actually not bad
--- *Please do one about "The Ammo Type Confusion," which covers the slew of acronyms such as HST, JHP, FMJ, SWC, +P, Mag, etc.* ---
I'm buying my first gun (Walther CCP M2) soon, and while I'm a bit familiar with some of the acronyms out there due to video games (like Fallout: New Vegas with the FOOK and Project Nevada mods, as well as the Arma mil sims), some things you guys rattle off I've never even heard of like "HST." I saw a list of .45 ACP ammo once for a ballistics chart, and I was blown away by how many acronyms I didn't recognize.
Are you sure you're not a demoncrat.
@@pj7362 You must be an Know it ALL Idiot Republi-cant Russian Troll!!!
@Goattacular You asked a perfectly good question about all of the acronyms, which can be confusing even to experienced shooters/gun owners!! I have owned Firearms for almost 30 years, And I even get confused by the acronyms at times and have to look them up to know what they mean.
@@matthewgroff433 Do you need a safe space?
You've basically got FMJ - full metal jacket, which is generally military and target ammo, and hollowpoint, which is marketed under many different brand names. Those are the two basic types, but there are also niche types, such as solids and frangibles.
Ah the ol SWC. Sentinel Wound Cavity style projectile. I carry those in my Luger .325 Federal Maximum.
11:44 I think you're thinking about .45 Schofield
Yes
Came to the comments to say the same thing
And the .45 auto rim.
Also shoot the new ish 45 cowboy.
Yes and no. The Schofield cartridge has a slightly larger rim diameter than .45 Colt, so when you tried to load it in an SAA chambered in .45 Colt, you could only fit 3 because you had to leave an empty space between cartridges for rim clearance. At the same time, you couldn't load Colt into a Schofield revolver, which was a logistical problem for the army since they had both pistol types issued.
They came up with the "M1887 Military Ball" cartridge, which had the shorter length of the Schofield cartridge, and the rim diameter of the Colt, so one ammo type could work in both issued pistols. This is the origin of the "Long Colt" misnomer, because in the vernacular of the day they were often referred to as short colt and long colt.
great info
I have my reason for loving the the 45 ACP.
Love 45, love Old School revolvers (Remington ‘75) and levers (45 colt or 45-70❤️). Forty five will do the job every time 👍🏻🤠.
Lol you cant compare 45acp to the 45-70
45-70 was the second hand gun or hand cannon I ever shot.
You guys are firearms encyclopedias! I've been binge watching the facts and confusion vids! 😁 Great info!
Watched this yesterday and it turned out to be quite timely. Son-in-law was considering buying a new lever gun in 45-70. So I was able to tell him about the pros and cons of the cartridge / black powder / reloading for 45-70. Thanks guys!
Your "Confusion" series of videos are among the most informative out there. Great work.
I need to go to moss and buy some stuff as an excuse to say howdy
Awesome video! It’s amazing how complex this stuff can be.
I would have stayed. They sell machieneguns and flamethrowers. Dream job
it isnt the middle of the ghetto, it's right off 75. And automatics can only be sold with a class 3. Moss can sell them but arrowhead, which is just up the road, cant.
@Skip M guys take this somewhere else these notifications are killing me, fucking boomers
I used to live around 3 miles from moss, it's not that bad, but it's not like it used to be. It gets worse the closer you get to the city. Moss is a small shop but they have nice stuff
I love my 45/70 especially that it's easy to reload my own bullets with hand tools.
Great conversation guys. Reminded me of why 45 caliber is my favorite.
I think the .45 short round you were looking for is the .45 Schofield, issued to the army in the 1870s to fit the Smith & Wesson Schofield revolver. Thanks for the video.
Yep,thinking the same...but a collector item...
OK, I played it back enough times to identify the time stamp at 23:34 as the point at which you utterly misidentified the rifle cartridge, the .458 Winchester Magnum as the handgun cartridge, the .45 Winchester Magnum.
Way back when, two proprietary cartridges were developed, the 9mm Winchester Magnum and the .45 Winchester Magnum. Unfortunately, the handguns to use the cartridges didn't materialize. The 9 slipped into obscurity, but the .45 found usage in a stretched 1911 style pistol, the Grizzly.
Of course I figured out quickly that you were talking about the .458 WM when I saw the cartridge on the table.
I was just about to point the same about the .458 WM but decided to read some comments first 🙂
It’s amazing the knowledge of Eric , chad and ray, in all aspects of gunning, thank you guys so much,
Tom,in NJ
Hey Eric, watching your video today had me feeling like I was back in school and I’ve been out of school sense 1980. Thanks for the history lesson it was very informative and I learned a lot. 🤙🏾
Guys, gotta say I'm loving these caliber confusion videos they r awesome. A nice mix of history and knowledge of ammo.
I know this is a few years old but, I'm happy to see you guys dive into the middle of the .45 Caliber confusion mess. Our Troopers downgraded to 9mm. In 2017, the South Carolina Highway Patrol issues the 9mm Glock Model 17M.
Troopers were previously issued the Glock Model 37 .45 GAP and the Glock Model 22 .40 S&W.[11]
The last revolver used was the Smith & Wesson Model 66 .357 magnum (Supposedly to go through the radiator and/or engine block, to stop a vehicle) which is a derivative of the Smith & Wesson Model 19
Always good to see Ray on the channel. Between you two, you guys could probably write an encyclopedia on this stuff.
Confusing but what a fun bit of knowledge about .45's. Love my 45-70 Govt. too. Thanks for sharing guys!!
Have 45-70 for sale nobody wants the ammo
Love the mention of the Ruger#1. My father has terrorized several ranges with his handloads for a Ruger #3. All within sammi specs. But most people have never experienced that level of stomp. You just hope they don’t drop the rifle
Hi guys keep up what your doing great content
11:45 I believe you were referring to .45 schofield
My papa uses the Ruger #1 loads from the Barnes loading manual for his .45-70 H&R handi rifle. Showing 2800fps with a 250gr bullet and 2500fps with a 300 grain
David Howe not messing around there!
David Howe
Whew! That'll do some damage!
@Mississippi Ditch Fisher nope. Never even heard of howe rifles
Since you had 460 S&W on the counter, I am surprised you didn't have or at least mention the 460 Rowland for 1911s.
Greetings from a marine from the bs land we call Libralfornia
Love your videos guys, very informative. Just picked up my first smith & Wesson today.
The .460 magnum is stupid powerful. I love the fireballs that come out of it at night when fired
He was thinking of 45scholfield same diameter as 45colt but shorter and weaker.
Was waiting for the 45 win mag.
The one developed for the canadian service pistol used in the automags and LAR Grizzlys.
And so I keep waiting
I was waiting as well. Just picked up a LAR Grizzly in .45 Win Mag.
@@rebelyank6361 Underwood Ammo makes great loads for 45 Winchester Magnum.
A 1911 was one of the frist center fire handgun that I ever shot
I really like these videos it's hard to get into such an in depth conversation like this when most people simply don't know this much about cartridges or have the interest.
You missed an obscure .45, that being the 451 detonics magnum
Love it when Ray is on, always learn some vauable new information!
You should ask Paul Harrell to come down and film him and Ray do one of these!!
Dude you ain't lying bout the Glock confusions lol
Hey I heard that Glock names their models based on the patents used for them. Even if true it still doesn't help clear up any of the confusion to the consumer that's for sure.
@@forestrebock3545 ain't that the truth. Yea I heard the patent thing too.
@@JimiBones Thats what I heard too Jim.
The model numbers are patent numbers on Glocks. And, the reason its confusing to people is because people have a misconception that a model number should describe the weapon. Who labels their weapons with descriptive model numbers. If Glock is bad I would think Smith and Wesson be more confusing........ J frame, x frame, n frame, l frame, 342, 642, 36, etc . What does it all mean?
If all else fails, you can always look on the slide or barrel and it will have the caliber stamped on it.
Still haven’t seen that 458 Lott video you promised! Love this series.
Very technical based, but informative beyond that, and the ending/hunting/hippo stuff made it humorous and agreeable. As a late bloomer to gun rights and firearms (6 yrs). I appreciate videos 5hat educate me on things that not only involve my choice of firearms and calibers. I also appreciate the history of it all and the 2nd Amendment stand. Thank you and your channel
What about .45 Super?
GreyC5
It's in gun heaven
I have a custom Para Ordnance P-14 in .45 ACP/.45 Super and love it. Of course it was built/customized by the late Ace Hindman!
GreyC5 Or better yet, the 460 Rowland...
Yeah I wish they would have talked a bit about 45 super 450 smc and 460 Rowland.
I wanted to hear about .45 Raptor and if it'll be possible for .45 to be used in high calibre rifles in future
Keep in mind that shooting .45ACP in a .455 Webley is equivalent to a proof test every time you pull the trigger. The Webleys were designed for a much lower CUP than the ACP del;ivers. More so on the Mark I (1887-1894) that were designed for black powder, though most of those were reproofed for cordite starting around the turn of the century. The later version will stand up to it... until they don't. You can reload ACP or Auto Rim cases to a lower pressure and with the right recipe and, IMO, they shoot better than the original Mark I or II ammo. More importantly, they are safe... for the revolver and they person shooting it.
Nice to see Ray again!
Thank you guys. Just got myself a Henry in 45LC
Great video, thanks guys. Love the "Sir Arthur Hi Point" shirt 😂😂
When he was talking about what cartridges can be shot out of the 460, the 45 S&W is I think what he was thinking of. Nice break down video.
Thanks guys. These are always interesting!
You forgot one! .450 marlin!
Was disappointed after it came out, I wanted it to be like the 458.
450 Marlin hands down is my favorite rifle
I had a Triumph Bonneville motorcycle. Every nut and bolt was Whitworth. I had to search for a tool kit for it. It was a nightmare.
Other dude is smart as hell
Bighorn does indeed make a .460 lever gun.
yeah ive been wanting one for years
Giver it a few years. I'll bet there will be more made by others for cheaper.
What all will fire from it, if you know? That could be a very versatile thing to have.
@@dallasdinglewood1091 in the lever gun it says it can run .460 S&W, .454 casull, and .45 Colt. The colts have a tendency to hang up though if not cycled properly.
@@derikledford3969 Interesting... yeah I'm still a long way from getting one but thats a decent list. .454 Casull out of it would be adequate for anything I can imagine. I hope that company does well, they seem to do some cool stuff.
The Glock model number is based on the patent number designated for that model that went in to production. First Glock patent that went into production, the 17.
Dick Casull passed away on May 6 2018. He was my friend. May he R.I.P.
damn i didn't know he died. he did more for magnum hand guns than anyone since Keith.
Can you shoot 454 casull out of a 455 smith & Wesson
@@DirkMays no but you can from a 460
I just got a 454 Casull Ruger I thought highly of Mr Casull I did not know he passed away sorry to hear
I love these bullet reviews
Would love a glock confusion video. Would also like a Smith and Wesson revolver confusion video. Don't have to go over every model number, just the more common ones would be great.
Misspeak at 23:37. Named the .458 Winchester Magnum, the .45 Winchester Magnum, which was an actual cartridge. It was available in the Grizzly pistols which were based on the 1911.
I had to stop at knock down power. So that was 1:16 I lasted this video. Muzzle energy between 9mm and .45acp are surprisingly close in stock loading. After having seen some of the maths and that the solution is, any pistol cartridge is really only there to help you get to your rifle, makes clear that any argument about subjective knock down power is a waste of time. It was an unnecessary distraction from the core discussion and served to drive this viewer away. I generally really enjoy your content.
.45 Colt is still one of the very best .45 cartridges all these years later. It's not too much, not too little, gets the job done admirably with the right bullet loaded. Enough power to slam end-to-end through a big animal or downloaded enough to make a day plinking with a SAA super fun. Not too long to reduce magazine capacity in a lever gun, not too short to be ballistically whimpy. Easy to reload. Easy to get a huge host of bullet types. Easy to get guns chambered for it.
Awesome episode Eric. I have a Glock 37 Gen 3 as my Home defense pistol. Thanks for the knowledge about the 45 confusion Sir .
i got 2 37s a gen 3 and a 4 plus the 39. love the gap
Thanks guys, very informative.
Another great video Eric, hopefully next time I’m in Georgia I can come check out the shop
Ray's got one of those voices i could fall asleep to. In a good way.
Excellent and enjoyable video. Very informative.
Thanks. I'm glad you got the new guy on there.
Nice info. love my Henry 45-70.
.50 confusion next, please! Thanks for the awesome "confusion" videos
14:32, notice the split casing?
Yup!
love these videos! ...but you forgot two cartridges here: the 450 Marlin, and the 460 Weatherby Magnum - both fire a bullet that's .458" in diameter.
I can say I love shooting my Ruger Blackhawk in .45! When I got it didn't have the extra cylinder to shoot .45acp, but purchased one and had a friend that machined it to fit. I need to test it more though with the .45acp cylinder. My favorite rounds to run through it are the Buffalo Bore .45 Long Colt +P's.
Great video gentleman. It is always a pleasure. God bless.
Nicely Done ! Thanks For the Information !!!
Would Love to See Chad’s GAC
I was talking to my cousin right around the time he became a NYS Trooper. They just switched from the 17 to the 37 but then my range director said Troopers were begging to go back to the 17. NOT for mag cap (although the 17 holds between 17-33 rounds) but for the fact that G.A.P. was NOWHERE & 9X 19 was EVERYWHERE. My FFL had ONE box of Long Colt that costs TWICE as much as ACP. So I put 5 rounds through my Governor (I have the Stainless that I first saw on here) and I saved the remaining 45. If I were to fire the 460 I'd prefer the rifle for the fact that the revolver I hold with two HANDS, the rifle I hold with two ARMS & one SHOULDER.
Great video but you did not mention the 460 Rowland
On the rifle comment for .460 S&W... 20ga shotgun, some sabot slugs are actually .460 bullets loaded into sabot sleeves (and some 12ga sabot slugs are .45-70 bullets loaded in sabot sleeves). One example is the Winchester Dual Bond, one of my favorite bullets out there.
Was disappointed that the 460 Rowland or 45 Lar Grizzly Win Mag were not mentioned, they being basically a 45 ACP mag & super mag, & treading on the 44 magnum territory (or in the case of the 45 Lar Grizzly Win Mag stomping all over it).
I've got a Win Mag..single shot barrel for my Contender.
Outstanding video guys thank you I learned some things about the 45 that I didn’t know
I don't recall you guys ever going over a .45lc or any SAA revolvers (or ammo) and wondered if it's even possible to do a .45lc replica comparison between the Uberti, Cimmeron, Taylor and Pieta versions?
if not no biggy and thanks for another confusion video
So can a 454 casul be fired out out of a 45 long colt lever gun?
Great video guys!
Thanks
I got a 460 S&W I love this revolver.
I love 45 colt, 454 and 460.
Now to get a 45-70
I almost bought the 460 this week,but decided to go 45-70 in rifle and revolver.I shoot a lot of black powder,so it has the case capacity to give 3-405 grain slugs some speed
450 bushmaster is awesome. Rated for grizzly bear in an ar15 platform with a 10rd mag. Kicks like a .410 dove load and extremely accurate to 300yds.
Definitely kicks more than a .410 dove load. It's definitely not that bad as a whole however, so there's that.
My 450 BM kicks closer to a 20 gauge slug
They basically skipped over it.
Love my .450 Bushmaster, don't know why they skipped it.. too wrapped up in the .45-70 I guess..
What rifle cartridge shares the same size base as the 45acp?
The GAP to the ACP is the 40 S&W to the 10mm. An APC with moon clips in a revolver is effective and fast in reloading. The 454 was a wildcat pumped up LC. My 5” 460 is faster in velocity to my 45-70 1886. They are absolutely right about watching what 45-70 loads you shoot in different actions. Be careful. Diminishing returns come quick in long cases. 375 H&H and up in Africa. The 458 Win Mag fell short for Africa. Hence the Lott and the Edge. Doubling the bullet weight at a given velocity doubles the energy. Doubling the velocity at a given bullet weight quadruples the energy.
Guy I went shooting with brought a box of .45 Colt to shoot in his new Colt 1911. Needless to say he was rather confused when he couldn’t jam the rounds in the magazine.
Lol, the 458 Winchester Magnum was the most popular caliber in African big game hunting for decades despite Lott's sales pitch.
I have a bunch of those in the shop in the back corner the 458 Win Mag I think they have 600 Nitro in them? But I have some that are a little shorter the guy who lives here he is 90 used to load ammo back in the 60s and 70s 80s 90s he used to hunt in Africa can't seem to find anybody that wants to buy them
The other shorter 45 is the Schofield, used in the breakdown Smith and Wesson of the same name, around 1874/Indian Wars.
LOVE to see a GLOCK CONFUSION VID!Would be most entertaining!
one thing really cool, especially in rifles, 45 sized holes are EASY to see in your paper targets at a distance:)
Love the shirt Eric.
I have a handgun chambered for the .458 Winchester magnum.
Outstanding video, thank you.
Great Video, Would love to see more 45-70 content
I believe when you were talking about the 45 round for the 460 is the 45 Schofield.
Hey Eric. I have somewhere, and I'll look for it, a cartridge very similar to a .45-70 but the case is somewhat shorter. There was no really discernable headstamp on the slightly tapered case but the bullet was a .452 dia. as measured in the case (I didn't disassemble them). I asked a few local cartridge experts, some were self-proclaimed, what the cartridge was and the only guess I received was that it was a quite rare 11.5mm Arabian. Never really found anything on it. Perhaps some of your readers might know. If I can locate, I'll give complete specs.
The .45 GAP was designed at a time where people wanted smaller and lighter .45 Caliber guns and didnt want to go to a new service pistol in 9x19. In short, it's designed to give .45 ACP +P ballistics in a smaller and lighter gun. I've got a Glock 39 with a +2 baseplate extension, so got a real tiny package with 8 shots of a round equal to .45 ACP at it's worst and .45 ACP +P at standard loads, with some +P .45 GAP loads capable of being .45 ACP +P+.
Frankly... There's not much confusion with any of the calibers here. Most all of these are .455 .454, or .451 caliber projectiles. All of which are mostly interchangeable with each other as far as being able to load into another case like say a .454 projectile into a .45 ACP which typically uses a .455 diameter. You see this for example when looking at the differences between some .45 Super and .460 Rowland loads. Some companies use .454 diameter instead of .455 because most .455 caliber bullets dont hold up at the velocities the .45 Super and .460 Rowland generate. Now I dont think it takes a genius to realize that you cant load something like say... .45 Colt into a. 45 ACP gun and the likes or load .45 ACP into a .45 Colt gun unless of course it's been cut for moon clips or has an interchangeable cylinder, but most importantly the gun is rated to handle it.
I have a Taurus Raging Judge Magnum with a 6 1/2 inch barrel that I've had cut for moon clips that I can shoot just about everything you have on that table. 3 inch .410, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .45 Schofield, .455 Webley, .45 GAP, .45 ACP, .45 Super/SMC, .460 Rowland, .45 Win Mag, I know it can shoot .444 Marlin and even .303 British depending on the powder charge.
Ultimately again, there's no real confusion here... never met anybody who believes .45 ACP is the same as .45 Colt, however some old timers call .45 Colt the .45 Long Colt as a way to distinguish it from .45 ACP which is also sometimes called .45 Colt by them. But that's more a case of their terminology is messed up or making the confusion vs there being actual confusion about what can fired from what and what goes with what. Ultimately this is about as "confusing" as .44 Magnum being a .429 diameter bullet.
@@larsandreasrisy4402 I said know plenty that load .455 out there.
"The .45 GAP was designed at a time where people wanted smaller and lighter .45 Caliber guns and didnt want to go to a new service pistol in 9x19."
The .45 GAP wasn't designed based on anything that was wanted by a significant number of people. It just came out of the blue and the response from most people was, "WTF?" I remember reading posts about it on gun forums when it was released in 2003 and most people thought it was an answer to a question that nobody ever asked. It had a few defenders though.
@@MaximRecoil It kinda was because of that reason. A lot of departments were looking at switching to 9mm's and .40 S&W's because they were smaller and had better capacity. A lot of officers liked the .45 ACP, a lot disliked it because it's poor reputation for not getting through auto bodies and other barriers.
Glock saw this, made a higher pressure .45 caliber round, offered it in smaller and lighter frames like people were looking at and had hopes it would catch like wild fire. The problem is, it didnt.. LEO's had no major interest because it gave less capacity than some of the .45's they currently had in service and less capacity than .40 S&W which was offering comparable ballistics in the same length barrels and bullet weights.
Reloaders didnt like it because it wasnt designed around the 230gr bullets and they wanted it to be, which Glock later did but then people didnt see a point as now it was identical to 230gr .45 ACP so why bother getting a new round?
It was an answer to what some people wanted, plus as they said in the video Glock probably wanted to get something with his name on it to make big bucks. While not hugely popular in the US, it's fairly popular across Europe and parts of South America. Namely places where civilians arent allowed to own "military cartridges" with the .45 ACP being considered that. Kinda like how down in Mexico .38 Super is pretty big.
@@Predalien195 When most police departments started switching to revolvers to automatics in the late 1980s, it was mainly to 9mm "wonder nines". The Beretta 92 was probably the most popular choice, with the SIG P226 being probably the second most popular choice, and one of the third-generation S&W 9mm autos being probably the third most popular. The .45 ACP has never been a popular cartridge among police. Among the relatively few departments that used it, the SIG P220 and a third-generation S&W were probably the most common (this was before Glock decided to buy the police market by being able to sell their $75 plastic pistols far cheaper than anyone else could sell their non-plastic pistols).
In any case, since .45 was never a popular round among police departments, there was no great clamoring for something along the lines of the .45 GAP. If the .45 GAP could have resulted in increased capacity, it might have gone somewhere, but it couldn't, because it is just as fat of a cartridge as the .45 ACP is, obviously. You can make the grip a little narrower (from front strap to back strap), but it has to be just as fat as a typical double-stack .45 ACP grip (from right side to left side) to get the same capacity (13 or 14 rounds). If you make it less fat like a double-stack 9mm grip, you end up with only say, 10 rounds, which isn't a great improvement on the 8 round capacity of a single-stack .45, which can be made narrower than even a double-stack 9mm grip.
@@MaximRecoil I wouldnt say it was never popular amongst departments. I know a lot of departments that used .45 ACP handguns and some that still do. But dont get me wrong, I'm well aware of how/where the GAP failed in the market. I have a G39 with a +2 baseplate for 8 rounds in a very tiny and compact gun. But part of what made the GAP not go anywhere was the fact Glock made the G21 and other double stack .45 ACP guns. They killed their own market in the US anyways. Like I said, pretty popular over in Europe and parts of South America.
It has a lot of potential but it's never going to fully see it as nobody is going to invest in the concept anymore. If it could have offered double stack capacities like the .45 ACP guns then yes it would have done much better. But like I said, ballistics are similar to .40 S&W with the same weight bullets and barrel lengths, yet .40 S&W can get better capacity generally speaking.
This video is very informative. Thanks guys.
I thought of a fun idea. You should load different bullets into different casings with the same diameter. Ex. A 5.56 into a 22 cartridge ext. This would be interesting to see how they fire larger bullets into smaller or larger casings. I was looking at ammo diameter charts and thought this idea up and how fun and interesting that would be and how true or wanky the bullets would fire
I picked up the 450 Bushmaster in the AR configuration from the War in Rhodesia following Vietnam. It’s basically an 45-70 in a AR configuration with the danger of extremely dangerous predators along with the Communist it was reassuring to have them in the hostile environment
That shirt is priceless!