Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
PSA Grading Change is GAME OVER for Card Cleaning? 😬
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- PSA Grading Change is GAME OVER for Card Cleaning? 😬
#tradingcards #SportsCards #cardcollecting
PSA recently made changes to their card grading standards to account for card cleaning. This wasn't their only change though! They also updated their T&Cs to now mention their sooner to be released Graders Notes.
🙌 Attributions:
Refer to those tagged above.
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro;
00:41 - PSA update grading standards for Card Cleaning
04:35 - What are Graders Notes and Why are they important;
06:04 - PSA update TCs for Graders Notes and it doesn't look good;
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @danthecardman2
✉ If you have any news, or things you think I should follow up on, hit me up at:
Email - danthecardman@outlook.com
📸 Socials:
Instagram - / dan.the.card.man
⚠ Disclaimer:
This video is for entertainment purposes only. You should not construe any such information or other material as fact, legal, tax, investment, financial, or other advice. Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer.
They are not going to be detecting anything , they’re bluffing . How can you determine wax on wax
Agree... this is a big load of noise.
Lmao they used to test for chemicals before the pandemic , then they got to busy
Some people want accuracy, some don't. Some people want cheap grading. Some are willing to pay IF it was actually worth it. Some are stillllllll flooding the graders with new TRASH. Putting so much trust into people that have less experience than most of us is absurd. Just because some 3rd party says something grades a 5 or a 10 doesn't actually MEAN it's a 5 or 10. When will the sheep understand this? It's a 30 second "opinion", based on limited knowledge. Ok. I've just talked myself into a sheep fleecing method. Cyaaaa😮
If we got cards new at 100% and no damage...things would be different..but I've bought a 350 hobby box to have all the cards at a MAYBE an 8 if I got them graded. So they need to make cards at 100%
PSA doesn't want Grader Notes public because they have so many incompetent graders. PSA doesn't want someone who gets a 5 on a freshly pulled card (that should be a 10) to publish the Grader Notes that says there are flaws that don't actually exist on the card.
100%
New graders shouldn't be allowed for cards over 100 bucks or for older cards. Hopefully they have some sort of standards for new graders.
Most of the flaws are created by themselves. They creased mine and my friends cards and have them 5's and 6's. My friend potentially lost around $624k
PSA put that restriction on the graders notes, so that there wouldnt be 1000s of videos pointing out PSAs inconsistency. "They gave me a 6 because of a surface wrinkle......i see no wrinkle". Or "I submitted this card again, and they totaly didnt mention the refractor line this time". Thats my 2¢.
Most PSA 6's are 9's and 10's. Just buy good looking PSA 6's
It's fair but if people can't discuss what's the point. It helps no one other than the submitter. They are a TPG meant to bring comfort to the secondary market.
There is nothing wrong with cleaning a card as long as the integrity of the card is in tact. Removing dirt or trying to fix a corner is also fine. Kurt's spray is distilled water and alcohol. Not a big deal.
Why does it smell like keyboard duster?
100%. The process of reversing damage such as dirt, creases, stains, dings is a respectable process.
@@barfyman-dm6zxIt's not. It's just a little bit of alcohol and distilled water.
Not according to PSA and anyone who does it is breaching TCs/committing fraud.
I find it funny that submitting a card with dirt, scratches or dings is not considered an altered card. Why, because it looks worse?Intentional or not anything added should place the card in an altered state. Cleaning a card is simply reversing unwanted alterations but PSA is the leader in the industry & can bend it in a way to protect their brand.
Will be interesting to see if they're actually doing their research to try and identify when cleaning has been done.
Major disappointment on grading notes...would be nice to see notes when buying a card
Hello Dan,
Regardless, of the changes to PSA's "administrative black and white," I would like for them TO PROOVE evidence of card alteration, when it exists.
Do have a good weekend.
I really want to see them uplift their process to a point where they can actually detect this stuff. Would be a game changer.
On the grader's notes stuff, PSA does not want to open that can of worms. They're perfectly happy with the buyer not actually knowing what the full scope of the cards issues are before cracking and resubmitting it. Please Submit Again doesn't just want to see the "good" 9s show back up on their graders desks. They want all the 9s to come back :)
They've announced its coming.
@@DanTheCardMan2 yeah but not for EVERYONE. Just the submitter of the card. That's the entire point of my post.
This don't change anything. These bozos can't even grade a card that is correct size without saying it's not minimum size requirement.
lol too true
I think any graders (PSA) can identify cleaned cards, black light ect. They will probably choose not to because cost of equipment, training, and extra time to process cards.
It’s an interesting one. I hope they start doing it tbh. It’s going to take a lot of time so perhaps they start with expensive cards only?
I recommend that before anyone is too harsh on graders missing cleaning, get a huge magnifying glass, analyze the card, put card care solution on it. Look at it under the magnifying glass, then wipe the stuff off. I bought a card from a guy and then heard he was cleaning them raw, and reselling… I found out after the purchase… I couldn’t find anything. The holo was pristine…
That’s the stance many have though. They make a big song and dance but can’t actually detect. I’m happy with their policy they just need to enforce it
@@DanTheCardMan2 Same. If they have a high sensitivity for catching the cleaning and miss a few I’m good with it. But I’m telling you, I’m a radiologist, I can detect infinitesimal subtle shades and I found nothing.
Commenting on the graders notes: I am normally a PSA grader, but I have also graded with TAG. They offer a type of grading (Type S) that will give out a thorough look at your card, as well as pin pointing each and every defect. Although, the grading is AI generated so it’s meaningless to say it’s very rigid. It’s tough to go down the AI rabbit hole when it comes to grading, but some people swear by it. Having the notes to understand why something was graded the way it was graded should be mandatory. TAG lets you know where each defect was found. They give 3d scans and graph’s making it easy to understand. Not only that, but TAG’s data is public; anyone can see it. They want to be known for their transparency, and their slabs are beautiful, as well as, a statement about their transparency. I should be paid for this plug. Lol.
A company in Australia known as CGA also provide detailed graders notes. Its a really important piece of innovation for the industry IMO
idk how theyre gonna detect a soaking or humidity treatment
That's my first thought... heck, they apparently can't even catch trimming a lot of the time.
I don’t know how they’ll detect any treatment if we are being honest
They can't. It's just to save face.
@@MrJoshpeck247i heard that PSA got the mailing list of people who bought Kurt's Card Care? Not sure if that's true though
@@sp123that seems borderline illegal. And definitely not true, as the only source for those addresses and names would be kurt, and hes not outing his revenue stream to psa.
I wonder if graders notes will increase the price of slabbing. It seems like every submission, lower valued cards will get half 10's, higher valued cards get 8's and 9's and they always sprinkle in a few 5's and 6's that will confuse the submitter who will crack it out and get the true grade the second time around. As far as private grading notes, with comics, I know buyers who look up tue notes on books and search for books with fixable issues and they will buy an 8.0 with light staining, mild creasing and buy the book, work on the book and they can remove those issues to get a 9.0 or 9.2 on a resubmit.
They really shouldn’t, common sense expects that they are collated as a normal part of the process.
CGC previously charged for this but it’s now free.
What about the first card PSA graded......TRIMMED...why doesn't the holde say TRIMMED on it ????
Agreed, it's dumb that PSA doesn't include the grader's notes to the public. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they are only available to the submitter. A lot of people use group submitters, you better trust that your submitter will forward those notes to you!
I'm guessing that we will soon see countless videos of people submitting cleaned cards that PSA doesn't detect and making a complete mockery out of the new grading t&c's. Unless they have a fool proof plan to detect cleaned/soaked cards then they are just going to look foolish.I'd rather they just say " We' ll try and catch the obvious stuff but you're on your own for the rest."
Correct me If I am wrong but I remember PSA's reaction (nothing) on that 1 of 1 Prizm Wemby when the owner shout out Kurt's cleaning service and further says "its not possible without their help?". Thats a confession right there, in there own office.. Thanks for great content as always Dan!
If you scroll to the bottom of the t&c page, update was made on the 14th of June.
Hopefully psa updates the terms, upon the release of the notes. Pretty crazy if the info, can't be shared, but I understand psa doesn’t want their future mistakes (regrade differences) publicized.
I could be wrong....but something tells me its just lip service&save face after being publicly humiliated with the Wemby debacle
Can someone launch a class action to get the PSA 8 Honus Wagner independently graded? Someone needs to put these corrupt clowns out of business. They're a joke.
Its pretty funny how all TPGs have a dirty history
PSA notes will always be subjective due to human perspective. Until all the grading companies agree on a governing standard (like other industries) people will always question grading and probably be disappointed. That's why I don't get cards graded to subjective,. Always great content that I enjoy!
My opinion is if PSA does grader notes on cards, they will lose out on cracking any significant/#'d cards hoping for a 10.
Possibly but their opinion swings so much each time a card is reviewed I am not sure it matters
Dream on. They couldn't detect Towle, moser, nor Foreman. They can't detect the modern stuff. T&C are irrelevent.
Yes PSA is trying to save face. They came out and said if they could see altering they would reject. Unless they have a new technology that actually can detect a solution then yes. So what can detect a card that gas been soaked in water? Soaked in solution? If people had not sent in and bragged about it this would not be an issue. Perhaps Tag does not have any problems detecting wax? Keep on it and thanx for your dilligence. Graders note are a step in the right direction but I agree with you. have you had any experience good or bad about Tag? I love the concept just wishing the prices were better:) Plus the market does not seem to accept it yet.
Agree mate
My take. It is not GOOD enough. Like we discuss, they should have tech that can detect if a card is waxed or cleaned by extra substances. Just like we know heated Rubies are beautiful and this is the first thing a Gem stone grader will do. So barely updating the rules without enforcing it is not good enough. But it is a good start.
I think its great as long as its the first step in them announcing a way to detect this. If its just for show then I am disappointed.
If they are spending 1 minute examining a card, there is no way they are testing for foreign substances. Only way this will happen is if you pay for a high value card or quick turn around so they could spend the time. Even then I don’t think it will happen. It would be too expense to test for it.
PSA up charges will cover the ones that degrade over time, which is probably a very small amount.
The only way they could clamp down on this would be to bring in the top card restoration people and work with them. They would have to learn all of their techniques and substances used to determine if it is even detectable. If they did that, it would be known. The change in wording in there is a bluff to appease the outcry from hobby influencers. If I put water on a card and truly let it dry over a long period, say a month, There is no way you can convince me that could be detected. I am having a hard time believing it would damage a card.
If they could detect any restoration without video evidence of it happening, it would be widely know.
I wish I was wrong, but…..
Psa needs to hire more employees. They can’t keep up with demand.
They do except they are unqualified.
The quality ones they let loose because they cost too much money to pay.
I think they hired too many, hence all these issues.
So are we getting banned if we submit a card we didn’t know was cleaned?
Unlikely. PSA will likely only ban someone if they consistently submit altered cards.
I’m fine with people “cleaning” or restoring cards, but not for submissions for grading. Like just be up front with it. Was the card trimmed? Did you remove stains. Like if that’s called out and listed as such as a raw card I’m fine with that. But it’s so shady to do that for a graded card. But I’m a purest when it comes to that.
It all comes back to transparency and disclosure for me.
I don't believe this will stop card cleaning due to PSA's inability and unwilling action to invest money into detection devices. Also this would be bad for business since Panini, Topps, or any other card company cant seem to make cards without so many issues like print lines, bent corners, scratches, etc. People who spend there hard earned money on cards that are less than good should have the ability to fix the manufactures problem within reasonable action.
Agree, detection devices aren't cheap and its a tough thing to manage.
This is just a deterrent. PSA is not gonna be able to catch this. The only way they will is if the person doing the cleaning didn't buff out the card well with a microfiber cloth, and they missed a spot. Then most likely PSA will catch it.
They should slab it N7. Make the submitter have to crack that card out of a holder instead of just handing them back their altered card for them to turn around and sell it raw
lol that’s a great idea. I’m assuming they’ve avoided it in the past because me of risk of error or misunderstanding in the market
You’re definitely wrong a lot people selling cleaned raw cards. What is needed is something that can be rubbed on a raw card to detect widely available or the hobby grading will be crippled
Rubbing on something to see if something was rubbed on.😅 next level ridiculous
I have no doubt it happens but most of these people want to maximise money. They're leaving too much on the table when raw.
**It would be the smarter play though
They shouldn't grade them at all. They can't tell the difference. Sounds like ebay's authentication process, meaningless. Juice will always evolve as long as they grade. Remember, Kurt alone has done it for decades with over 20k customers. The only way is not grade then buyers will be more careful with raw. Corporations are like government, they don't fix problems they make them. Lol
I guess all future cards will have fingerprints on them or be AA, evidence of cleaning by buffing off fingerprints and possible oils still remain under blacklight gets you an AA.
All graders say that wiping off fingerprints with a microfiber is fine. Using chemicals, sprays or wax is completely different.
THANKS DAN ,always value you option 👍 I'm not for cleaning. I'm waiting someday I submit some cards in psa for grading and it comes back (can't grade cleaned ! ) I have seen I few in the past year that looked cleaned to me (don't want to send in don't want to get on the (CLEAN LIST )
PSA has been rigorously training their graders on how to sniff Kurt’s cards care products like a drug sniffing dog. They would have implemented this years ago but loss of smell from Covid slowed down the process
haha, I can't wait to see that in their next promo video
They would kill the market if they do this detection thing because if you buy a raw card at a show lets say and dont know its been cleaned and send it in and they wont grade it then in the long run they will kill there business and the resale business.
Same thing happens with trimmed card unfortunately
PSA’s grader’s notes is very disappointing if they’re actually doing it this way permanently
Graders notes is a race to the bottom that will deflate prices. People will use notes to low-ball a seller so it's best that they stay private to the submiter.
Yes there is an argument to be made with that inexpensive card that gets a 6 that viewing it both agree it is a 9 and deal accordingly. Now if I see a 6 the seller knows why it was downgraded and instead tries selling it as a better card knowing the minute problem that I don't see. Also why is it I see people pay thousands and don't even put a loupe on it. I use a 30 power glass to see spots on a proof coin that you otherwise would not see with a 10 power. I never see card collectors look the card over closely?
Is there any way for the average person to spot a cleaned card? I go to card shows all the time and pick up raw cards. Ive done a few PSA subs in the past but id hate to submit an expensive card only to find out theres "evidence of cleaning."
Buy a kit yourself. Use it on some commons. Observe results.
Don't think so. These graders can't even tell half the time.
PSA is so inconsistent. I'm glad i bought raw
This just protects them for liability. If they can’t detect anything there is nothing to find.
Collectors have to be looking around to see who would be interested to buy PSA
I don't know how much they can take in all this
There's a reason why they bought SGC.
Its an ATM machine for them, I doubt they ever sell it.
@@DanTheCardMan2Not if they want to save their reputation; that means everything.
They can sell it to the highest bidder and make bank off that. They didn't have a problem in unloading Goldin.
I mean realistically it does still help if you are the submitter and collector, and will be holding on to the card. If your plan is to sell than your absolutely right it doesn’t help the end collector who will purchase it down the road.
Oh of course, the way it was presented though was that it would bring comfort to the secondary market
Graing cards as AA is a step in the right direction but it will just give them another reason to crack a slab and hoping they'll get a grader that it will get past so they get a proper grade
Does that mean that I couldn't share the graders notes on an eBay listing?
That’s how it reads to me.
@@DanTheCardMan2 insanity
Really crappy for the ppl who use group submissions....so u won't be able to access the report for your own card????? I wonder how that will work??
Good point
Guy you are rly obsessed with this. Now you tell me. Is it any different than a card that is played ? The played card has got substances also and its altered tecnically also because its not in the original form from the pack. So cleaning a card would be the same but the opposite. So if they dont considere damaged cards altered then why would they considere a card that used some Kurt spray (water and little alkohol that later dries off the card) altered ?
While im not a fan of kurts i would rather have a card cleaned by kurts that looks very minty thab a heavy played dirty card with clouding and stuff, if i was forced to choose one.
Well, a played card has visible wear and tear that a buyer can see for themselves. Cleaned cards show no signs of alteration. We’ve discussed this previously but people doing it don’t disclose. A person buys it and then years down the line the card deteriorates because of chemicals used. This is exactly what graders are fearful of as no one has any insight about long term damage.
@@DanTheCardMan2 i see your point but also probably thia longterm damage doesnt even exists if it was just a spray with little alkohol. I mean there is no evidence to support it but lots of paranoia with the OCD people
@@alejandroguerrieri2924it’s not even disclosed what’s in the spray or the wax. Buyers have a right to know
@@DanTheCardMan2 but by the same logic is nit even disclosed either what the light played card has gone thought and what made it a played card. Maybe has some "rests" after the toilet visit that stays there forever longterm. I mean its the same.....
This is big news. I know they were working on trying to detect it in r&d. If they made this change then it makes me think they have!?!?! It has something to do with lights... if they suspect it, I wonder if they switch lighting color.... it's gotta be something that easy???
It's easy to do with the right light of electromagnetic wavelength (infrared/UV). That's what something like a spectrometer is for.
I hope its the first step in them announcing a way to detect. I am not holding my breathe though!
There are electromagnetic wavelengths outside the visible spectrum (our eyes) that can easily detect the remnants of a liquid/element on a porous object.
How can it differentiate between cleaning liquid and one from the manufacturing process?
Wow this video looks remarkably similar to my video on the same topic released 6 hours ago.....where 's my attribution?!?! And no Jim Carrey? 😆Tossing another shrimp on the barbeeeeee lol
Lucky it was recorded 12 hours ago.
Kudos for missing the point once again though.
There’s a cleaner that posts big cards that he appears to cleaned. When will psa decertify those cards and the wemby black 1/1?
I fear this creates a witch hunt where people start falsely call out others.
They will wait for someone in the community to chuck up a stink before doing anything. Same old story
Grading is the biggest grift inn the hobby
It seems so these days
people that complain about this are flippers that are trying to max money out of cards the people that buy hi end cards want what they bought to be unblemished and not fucked with ie cleaned /altered psa is trying to protect the customer base that buy hi end cards do i like both groups of people? nope but if i bought a expensive card i had worked to get and cherish i dont want it messed with
One small step
So naturally go with Beckett
Beckett is worse lol
Just a fluff statement to be PC
Dan The Unpack Man
😂
Catch me if you can
PSA graders notes are almost worthless. TAG wins! If you want to know what drove the grade, TAG is the best, with BVS next with sub grades.
💯
TAG actually needs to do something in order for them to win
@@DanTheCardMan2 What are your suggestions? I don’t think they will ever be a registry player. They do need to accept older cards. Do you think they could improve their DIG reports?
I have slabs from 10 different companies and I prefer TAG for my PC. For older cards CGC is a close second. I don’t like to use the others unless I am planning to unload a card. I don’t use the PSA or others registry and I am not obsessive about having all of my cards in the same slabs. I think this makes me a little different than the average person getting cards slabbed.