you have fair points, but at least we didn't murderfuck slaneesh into existence and so high up on ourselves that we massacre planets for being on a tomb world without you know, INFORMING FIRST. but hey, heresy kill xenos right? love, a guardsmen (PS: this is all a joke, sorry if you took it the wrong way)
Ya know, one day I do hope you do a 'which chaos god' is the best video, as well as 'what warhammer character is the best'. My vote for both would be Slaanesh and Fulgrim. Say what you will about being possessed and guilt-ridden over the brother he killed, Fulgrim by far is the living the best life out of any warhammer character. he basically lives on a planet of endless pleasure, he's incredibly powerful (killed 2 primarchs ), he's immortal, and he doesn't have to worry about his future or the continuation of humanity...or anything really. All he has to do is lounge around being serviced by his minions in boundless pleasure, and whenever he wants to mix things up, he can strike out into battle and fight anyone he wants, inflicting pain upon himself and the enemy (and given how much enjoyment he constantly feels, the pain might actually be a healthy change of pace). He doesn't have to worry about the tyranids eating the galaxy or the endless toil of the imperium of man. he's basically living in 'paradise' at this point. Even if he is killed he'll just get revived in the warp, and then he gets to experience all the 'endless pleasure' all over again. compared to his brothers Angron (who is basically a brainless brute who gets to chop off heads like its his new 24 hour day job), Mortarion (who smells like literal piss and shit all the time, and whose senses are numbed to the point where he can barely feel anything anymore), and Magnus (who is essentially another workaholic who has to constant stress out over the trillions of plots that he is constantly planning). Fulgirm, on the other hand, is just a happy stoner that gets to chill all day and be massaged and waited on by countless servants until the end of fucking time. lol
Theory: if the Emperor were to wake up, the "Imperium" wouldn't thrive. He would start anew and bring it all to ruin so he can rebuilt the great Galaxy expanding empire he always wanted. It's easier to paint over a white canvas than to correct every little mistake ever
That, and awakening the Emperor would probably mean killing him first, which would depower the Astronomicon and the Golden Throne, so Terra would most likely go poof and the warp storms wouldn't leave much Imperium left anyway (kinda like a second Age of Strife)
I disagree, he’d have to kill way too much of the Imperium to “wipe the slate clean”. By the time he finished there’s no way he could stop the onslaught of both Tyranids and Orks from crushing everything. Only so many worlds fit for human habitation without aliens destroying them, and that’s not even getting into the various exterminatus needed for said slate wiping.
I mean that’s fair. The emperor was just ego tripping for the most part while making the imperium so like it makes sense he’d do just as bad of a job the first time
Given what the Emperor seems to be about, I imagine he would take a more practical approach. Unfortunately, the Imperium under him probably wouldn’t change much until things were in a much more workable state.
If this would happen I would love for planets to still think the imperium exists even though it collapsed like 100 years ago, just because it never did anything for them anyway
**hears that the Imperium is long gone** Ex Imperial world citizen: Oh? Really now? That is bloody well sad...welp back to my back breaking labour in some dark, stale, forsaken mineshaft so my planet's overlords can afford their huge banquets in their high spires!
Imagine a planet still pay its tithe long after the imperium is gone. Due to the absolute fuckups that is the imperium's bureaucarcy. Shit just get sent to planets already dead/dominated by xenos and chaos and not heard from again. But nobody even care because back then, it's the same. They might even like it as the tithe wont increase anytime soon
my favorite moment in the books is when the emperor said "ahhh it feels good to finally be off that damn throne, now bring me all 40 thousand warhammers."
plus it would make primarch returns more interesting. they return with the intention of rebuilding the imperium only to find that many of them have different ideas about how it should be done. Now not only do you get to bring back fan favourite characters but you also get to have them interact in new and interesting ways
Honestly, the Imperium falling would be a perfect time to bring the Primarchs back. Because bringing them back now would make the Imperium a bit too strong, looking at what just Guily coming back did. But if the Imperium fell, the Primarchs coming back could justify why forces like Chaos, the Orks, and the Tyranids don't just steamroll the shattered Imperium.
@@manjoring5944 Honestly though, the Codex was prefect for its time. The Legions were big, unwieldy, and often slow to respond. They were an unstoppable wrecking ball perfect for conquering, but they aren't suited for protecting large areas of already held space. Look what constantly breaking apart a legion did to the Iron Warriors. The increased autonomy of Chapters was prefect for a post-Scouring, pre-Great Rift Imperium that just needed to be defended, not conquered.
G-man and the Lion would dust off their Imperium Secundus project while Dorn would stay on Terra as praetorian. In the meantime Vulkan would run back and forth saving as much people as possible. And the Khan would just purge
It would be extremely funny if Abaddon finally won, proclaimed himself the next emperor of man, then immediately most of the other chaos factions went "up yours, buddy!" and went back to fighting each other.
Honestly part of me wishes that if the Imperium falls, it would be for the most mundane reason. An adept at the administorum could uncover really old documents stating that the Imperium has officially dissolved, but no one bothered to spread the information. Alternatively, Guilliman could use a tried and tested strategy from the Codex: Corporatus called "rebranding". While it would be unsatisfying, I would want it for the simple reason that it adds contrast to the craziness of 40k. Plus it fits the bureaucratic hell that is the Imperium. Just remember that the Sisters of Battle exist because of a legal loop hole ("The ministorum will not have any men under arms").
I imagine something akin to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the DDR. A badly organised press meeting of the High Lords of Terra where on of the Lords accidentally lifts travel regulations to Terra, prompting a mass pilgrimage of entire world populations, collapsing entire sectors, Trade routes and the Terran defense. A man can still hope.
In all seriousness, this would be a great way to reintroduce Exodites as a modern faction. In multiple stories the Exodites have been shown willing to cooperate with humans and I think this would be a great opportunity to create a hybrid Eldar/Human faction. Previous treaties always got killed by some inquisition force who got a whiff of xenos, and with a fractured imperium, Exodites could reasonably resurface in somewhat cooperative force with humans. There is a city if AoS that does something similar, combining human tech with wood elf nature for some cool ascetics.
God I wish they’d get their own army so bad. The Asrai in Fantasy were so fucking dope and it sucks they’ve got no 40K counterpart in a meaningful sense. To some extent I get it because in a sci fi setting a faction whose whole schtick is “never leaves their planet” isn’t ideal for a sci fi setting but there’s still potential with the webway for them to be their own thing.
@@pancreasnowork9939 if the Dark Eldar can be based out of 1 city, then the Exodites can definitely use the web way to be a relevant force. #Exodites4warhammer
You've read the best that GW has to offer. Light fun with overtones of grimdark. The silly things are taken with a grain of salt instead of killing a planet because someone asked what chaos is....
You know Stygies VIII is immediately creating a Xeno-Human tech hydrid army and daring whatever is left of the Ordo Xenos to fight them in the parking lot.
@@mrsniffles5417 Yeah. If Stygies VIII was allowed to incorporate xenos tech since the imperium is gone, they'd not bother trying to be sneaky anymore, they could kill almost anyone.
@@seekingabsolution1907 T'au are not communist, but yeah, like Pancreas said with the Imperium gone maybe we could FINALLY see prominent INTERSTELLAR human factions that try to recreate or even rediscover the various OTHER governmental systems we have invented over the millennium other than SPACE feudalism/aristocracy. Imagine a secretive but popular movement of manufactorum workers from across a whole sector actually manages to stage successful overthrows of their planet's aristocratic rulers, likely with some outside help (preferably no Chaos involved, atleast not in a big way please) and taking advantage of the confusion from the collapse of the Imperium happining around the same time.
I want Guilliman to be the cause of the imperium fracturing. He wrote a book about how no one should ever have as much power as Horus, then assumes more power than Horus ever did and then starts bending every space marine chapter in the galaxy to his will based on self given authority. Love him or hate him I could see this primaris replacement scheme causing a civil war between Guilliman and Cawl’s new order and all the hardliners they’ve been trampling over
I think it really depends how it falls. It would be interesting if it was like that of Rome where it's kinda disputed when it actually happened. Hell, one could argue it happened when the Emperor got imprisoned on the Golden Throne, since he's no longer running the show and it's changed into something completely opposite of his intentions. Potentially, Ultramar declaring independence could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Gulliman slowly becomes more and more disgusted with what his father and his empire have become and decides to leave them to rot, creating his own empire more in-line with the Emperor's original vision.
Actually that would be a fun faction to make. They believe Emps is a god but has been chained to the Golden throne to be used by the high lords for their own end. So they start a crusade to release the emperor from his prison
@@haroldsandahl6408 Damn, not what I was thinking, but still a really good idea. There are even some theories (in real-life not in-universe) that state something like this.
@@haroldsandahl6408 imagine a huge blue gothic battering ram coming from space down onto holy terra as guilliman tries to take his father from the glorified catholic elderly home
@@haroldsandahl6408, Suppose a (likely alternate) reality where they're right and Chaos is mostly made up as a second layer to the lies they tell the peasants. The Horus Heresy was just the Primarchs being human without major outside interference. Chaos corruption of psykers is just them succumbing to their own inner demons instead of some higher power, and corruption of non-psykers is the same happening to them via latent powers or externally by others. Daemons are mundane Warp phenomena that occur naturally and/or are accidentally or intentionally created by people messing with the Warp. I'm intrigued. Honestly that might even be more interesting to me than the canon setting, as one of those people who unironically think Attack of the Clones was a good story.
@@seekingabsolution1907 Not too unlikely. We are incredibly divisive as a specie like you-gave-a-4-stars-rating-while-I-gave-a-5-stars-rating-fight-me-you-goddamn-scrub divisive but we do tend to team up rather fast when there's an external threat. See the first crusade. Most European nations(ish) where very happy just bashing each other over the head but the moment the Arabs made some real headway in their continent they decided to bash THEIR heads in together instead. This is a MASSIVE oversimplification but it illustrate the point.
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine no we don't. Have you lived through the same pandemic I have? What about the climate crisis? Sure our scientific community has coordinated ina stunning display of selfless pragmatism but the governments, corporations, nation-states etc have all been the same quibbling selfish backstabbing morons they always have been.
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine And? Doesn't mean that'd happen in the Warhammer 40K universe. Hell even with the Imperium as is, many human worlds willing join the t'au and with it gone, that strategy of getting planets to join them without a fight would be even more effective because hey better to join with or be subservient to the objectively nicer (though still somewhat oppressive) xenos empire then take your chances fighting of the ork warbands and tyranid hive fleet that's eyeing your pitiful little backwater planet like vultures to a rancid corpse.
I actually have been running a homebrew campaign where the imperium fell and fractured with two successor states being the most powerful of the imperial remnants. One run by the Ecclesiarchy claiming to be the true and rightful heirs to the imperium. They still control the inquisition, some space marine fanatics, like the Black Templars and the Grey Knights, and most of the Astra Militarum. And the other is the Kingdom of Ultramar run by Guilliman. Most space marine chapters would pledge their allegiance to him and he would form the Royal Army from PDF’s and Guard regiments that plaedged allegiance to him. Guilliman also outlawed the worship of the emperor, and promises to better the lives of humans and vows to carry out his father’s grand plan of uniting humanity and claiming the stars
The funniest part about outlawing the worship of the emperor is that faith in Big E legitimately provides protection against chaos just because enough people think it does
curious, since the Adepta Sororitas for example have many of their number greatly admiring Guilliman, how would you handle an Adepta Sororitas order siding with Guilliman? Would they still receive the blessings of the emperor that they are so renowned for?
@@M3RUL3Z you know, that’s a really good question. None of my buddies play Adepta Sororitas so I never thought of it. I’m gonna have to get back to you on that one. What are your thoughts?
@@M3RUL3Z They admire guilliman because he is the son of the emperor Space nuns draw their power from devotion to Big E, essentially the emperors presence in the warp is so strong that living saints like Celestine are an equivalent to daemon princes So they would side with whoever they thought had the emperors divine mandate and would likely see guilliman denying the emperors godhood as heresy
Yeah, there's literally way too many humans for the species to just suddenly die of if the Imperium collapsed, sure humans would probably never again dominate the galaxy but honestly I think that's a good thing. Atleast it would force writers to pay attention to various other xenos factions rising in the midst of the confusion of the fall of the ULTRA xenophobic empire they hated.
Yeah whenever people talk about the emporium collapsing i always envisioned it as a star League scenario in which successor states would immediately pop up.
@@IronWarrior_69 *"Emporium.."* Now I'm imagining a public square space the size of a small nation on some weirdly beautiful hive world's well...hive city full of cute little shops, the interesting hook is that the planet was on the Eye of Terror side of the Great Rift and as such is among the thousands if not millions of worlds that were cut off from the remaining Imperium. Except instead of becoming some murder filled hellhole like the old propaganda said would happen the planet's populace, the masses staged a successful takeover of their planet from the clutches of the old hierarchical elites that once ruled them. They since became an trading hub were all manner of weird goods are traded and people engaging in what would've been under the Imperium's iron boot considered extremely heretical relationships between humans and various xenos civilizations and even other human successor factions all come to this plesently refreshing little world to well...trade with many of the shops being run by various alien species some of which not even the Ordo Xenos have heard of, from t'au *"unsanctioned merchants" (their Rouge traders)* to yes even *"ork pawnshops" (because yes!)* can be found amongst the stalls and spaces!
@@navilluscire2567 Since Humanity survived the Dark Ages the fall of the Imperium would be a walk in the park. Not individually but with the IOM gone many things would get better once they are "past the bottleneck".
Having read a lot of Dan Abnett stuff, where rival Guard regiments end up fighting each other or Inquisitors go after each other for real and imagined crimes . . . I feel like the Imperium is constantly in a borderline state of civil war anyways. Maybe the factional infighting isn't quite to the level that you see at your local gamestore, but the tabletop isn't supposed to perfectly match the lore anyways. (After all there's supposed to be 1,000 marines per most chapter and most humans will rarely see the, but you wouldn't know it from how many marine armies there are). Also I can't find the link but I did find a PDF where someone made a list of reasons Imperial factions might fight each other to justify these tabletop skirmishes.
The factions seem to be written in a way that you can justify ANY tabletop matchup. That might not be strictly true but I can’t think of any right now that don’t make sense.
@@reginlief1 Hell even *tyranid vs tyranid* can be sorta justified because say a small hive fleet tendril somehow became severed from the hivemind's synapse and started to act more erratic and independent, eventually bumping into another still connected tendril only for them to try and eat each other (basically space battles) or say it intercepts a connected hive fleet that's in the process of well...eating an entire world, so this rouge fleet sends its own hordes of severed tyranid forms into battle against the invading fleet's ground forces. (with the traditional table top or other strategy games)
Theres also dawn of War. And the months of shame where the grey knights and inquisition tried to extinct the space wolves for the heinous act of not wanting civilians and veterans who risked their lives to stop HELL, from being unceremoniously euthanized
In third edition codexes there was a section at the end explaining why this faction would want to fight all the others or even themselves, there were things like suspecting each other of chaos taint, receiving contradicting orders from the administratum, both claiming right to posses a relic... Maybe the PDF was taken from there, it added a lot of flavor imo.
@@navilluscire2567 i personally like the idea of one hive fleet deeming it necessary to consume another, maybe because it thinks it will become something greater or that it’s methods are better and therefore more important to fuel than the other’s.
I can see the Black Templars and their gang of sycophants waging holy war against the newly reformed Mechanicum while Ultramar and the T’au Empire form an uneasy alliance to fight against the Tyranids. Meanwhile the Sororitas and the Custodes reconvene on Terra to try to reclaim the Imperium as the emperor’s truest servants.
One downside I could see is that Imperium fans would get PISSED! They're the most popular faction in the setting so if they go down there would likely be massive backlash and people may decide to not spend money on the game even if they add new human stuff. Not saying I disagree, just that it's something that would likely happen
But then the Imperium could still exist, centered on Terra and, perhaps, a fair chunk of Segmentum Solar. It'd just be... weaker. Like how the Galactic Empire fractured into numerous smaller "Empires" in Star Wars Legends.
@@theinquisitor8112 honestly, it’s the best of both worlds. Just because the imperium shatters, doesn’t mean the imperium has to go away completely. You can keep everything as is, and just write up a story about it falling apart into warring states with more unique flavor that’s still human. I think it’s a great idea
Don't have to axe the codexes or factions, just have a four way war between Gulliman, Dorn/Lion/Russ, Ecclesiarchy-Overtaken-by-Inquisition, and AdMech-who-want-to-bring-back-Void-Dragon. Have each codex apply rules for each of these four new Imperial successors that make them no longer "Battle Brothers," have every faction schism around four central human powers without ditching the models, rules, or lore if someone writes it right.
Yeah shit is, theres probably already a shit ton of those and terra, +chaos cults. They havent done a damn thing, because the security on terra is something else. And around 8thousand custodes
Honestly I'm surprised there isn't a faction or factions of humans that rebelled against the imperium. And when I mean rebelled I mean they fully understand what the hell happening in the galaxy (chaos, elves, orks etc). I mean realistically not every human in the galaxy can't be that ignorant on what the hell is happening. Gene stealers and chaos worshippers don't count for rebellion. I'm referring to a normal human or a group of humans (astartes as well) who got fed up of the imperium crap and decide to revolt or at least against the imperium fundamentally. So far the only factions that I could think of with that concept in 40k is the interex, diasporex and serveran dominate. I mean the interex and diasporex are in my opinion the more believable 40k human factions. Interex actually had means to combat chaos and had good relationships with xenos and the diasporex just wanted to be left alone by the imperium. Unfortunately they died out because plot and less firepower. Interex was destroyed due to erebus and diasporex was wiped out due to Fulgrim and Ferrus. I don't know much about the severan. Apparently they have a basterdized version of the imperial cult which is already basterdized version of the imperial truth which is also a basterdized version of atheism. It would be nice if there were more resistance against the imperium. A genuine resistance. Not some chaos cult or gene stealer. Something like the interex and diasporex. I mean those the factions were actually pretty cool in their own way. If not actually believable at times.
@@jonathanathor117 yeah, I'm surprised that we don't have one, I mean the tau human faction exist but we barely get anything about them because imperium fans get al whynny if it isn't 24/7 about them and how the imperium is perfect
The fifth edition warhammer 40,000 rulebook! On a condensed history of the Imperium, it says that during the ‘Time of Ending,’ more worlds are being turned over to the Astartes for governance. I remember this because 5th edition was my first when I got into 40K. Anyway, this is a very cool idea and I endorse it. I do not have much to say beyond “Hi, let me be your citation”
Personally, as a Tau player, the fact that they are totally screwed is why I like them. They live short lives in a galaxy where everyone wants to kill them only to be promised nothing in death besides knowing that they fought for what they believed in, even though it never had a chance. If that’s not Grimdark… idk what is. Throw in it being lead by a self aware AI clone and Farsight being one bad day away from screaming “BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD” as he runs into battle…there ya go
He is talking about Aun'va ya simpletons, guy's been a solid-light sentient hologram since agrellan a few centuries ago... which is actually much smarter than what the imperium is doing still, at least our dead leader lives on trough an AI modeled after his actual personality and doesnt require 1000 sacrifices of potentially useful assets every day
Honestly, I think there is some great possibility to make both the normal Tao and the Enclaves more Grimdark without actually making everything chaos fault. The Tau empire is pretty easy, just lean a bit more into the mind control, maybe a secret police a la the Dai Le (there is no war with the enclaves) and for Farsight, well ... maybe the enclaves had quite the large population before he showed up and had the idea to undertake a great leap forwards ... also, it would also be verry easy to have actually been right about everything if you also the moral authority to rewrite the curiculum to fit the bill (what do you mean the undersupplied force had no chance of making it? They were the verry vanguard of our cause! its just their comander was an athereal agent undermining our most glorious (crossed out rebellion) revolution! Now go back to your textbooks missing some pages because the athereals thaugt wasting paper with their imperialistic formulas was a good idea) So yeah, mind control normal Tau and an enclave with the political and developmental ideas of mao (add a "he is our great leader" if you really want to spice it up) and an attitude towards their armies like the early french revolution, reframe earlier books as propaganda and we have ourselves some verry Grimdark Tau right there
@@emileo5024 The 'mind control' idea is so one dimensional and cringe, 40K can do so much better than that. The propaganda idea may be decent, but that already exists through 'the greater good'. There's no need to over-write it and make it convoluted.
Honestly this is a super cool idea. Shattering the imperium doesn’t mean getting rid of it, and having some more human variety would be fucking awesome. It’s a win win
Most importantly, the Imperium collapsing would finally give way to Space America forming. Led by the George President of American Kind. It would be beautiful.
I honestly really like your premise for a broken humanity. I think it would be an interesting way to shake up the setting and actually give it the "humanity is dying" thing actual validity
The Defensive dream team is the Imperial Fist, the Death Korps of Krieg, and Tau. Think about it; the Imperial Fist build and man the wall, the Death Korps will man the trenches in front of the wall with artillery behind the wall, and Tau long ranges weapons at strategically placed on the wall and in the trenches.
I'd replace the Tau by Vindicare/other assassins temple for a few reasons or maybe mechanicus. The first is that they're better at removing specific threat and are better sniper (solid slug is better than energy weapon for sniping because they don't reveal your position). The second is that they already kinda belong to the same faction so there is less frictions. Which, if you have to defend a spot, cohesion is critical for success. The third is that once you have a fortification with artillery, the Tau don't really have anything to add to the table. Sure, lorewise, pulse rifle are great but they really can't do more than heavy bolters, autocannons, mass artillery fire and so on. They just don't fill enough of a niche.
Question: What's your counter to Warp nonsense? Because I think you need either Necrons (Fortify against the warp!) or Eldar (Our wizards counter your wizards!) to make it just right.
Big E: "I'm awake! What the fuck have y'all been doing. I'm out." The Imperium: Umm... infighting begins... "I told you he wasn't god!" "He's testing us!" "Hail the Omnissah!" "Dad's back but went to get milk or something!"
@@pancreasnowork9939 I am pretty sure Lorgar would flip sides if The Emperor told him three simple words. "You were right." Which honestly would make a comedically giant mess of Chaos.
If big E 'woke up' that by itself would spell the end of the imperium. Turns out your space empire needs to be able to travel through space so the astronomicon is pretty important.
What you are describing is literally just BattleTech. A human empire collapses into idealogically and culturally diverse successor states that fight over its legacy meanwhile the previous tech wizards play them all off against each other. Its why I have always viewed Battletech as a more realisitic and fleshed out version of the "Fuedalism in space" concept.
Another great thing about the imperium collapsing is that without the hyper anti-xeno faction exterminating any and everything alien it leaves room for new and interesting xenos to pop up and actually be a force to be reckoned with. One of your earlier videos was about how the Covenant would be a great race for 40k, well what if let’s say there was a race of aliens that was almost completely wiped out by the imperium. They went around the galaxy on a sort of Ark type ship collecting a few aliens off of each planet the imperium was going to purge and created this massive super coalition of alien races all hell bent on exacting revenge against the humans that destroyed their races. So much opportunity for interesting new plot points for the setting if the imperium falls.
A big story opportunity would be seeing the perspective of a newly independent planet/system desperately weighing its options on who (if anyone) it's going to ally with. Say there's a planet that's within spitting distance of both Tau space, a Marine fortress world, and a Craftworld is hanging out in the area for the moment. The planet's leader's may want to take a shot at remaining autonomous, but a Waagh or chaos fleet is approaching the system. Do they try to make a stand on their own and retain their newfound freedom? Will they submit to the Marines in exchange for protection, returning to the oppression they only just escaped? Maybe they'll take a chance with the Tau, putting all their chips on the bet that they'll be kinder overlords. Or maybe some madman will suggest straight up abandoning the planet by (somehow) striking a deal with the Craftworlders for a mass evacuation. There could be all sorts of debates or even full-on infighting about what to do, and you could make all kinds of cool outcomes.
Do keep in mind just because a world or even whole star systems are now independent from the Imperium doesn't mean the majority of the peoples of those places are free, the oppression from the aristocracy or human dynastys that have ruled over the masses for thousands of years with the Imperium never doing anything about them and their abuses towards the citizenry. So when a planet is deciding to whom they'll allie with 11 out of 12 times it's likely only an elite few or an oligarchy or despot dictators deciding this not the masses, nothing really democratic whether directly or indirectly (i.e. republics) about it.
@@navilluscire2567, If by an elite few you mean hundreds of nobles trying to figure out how not to upset tens of thousands of lesser ones then yes, and those aren't even hive world numbers. No man rules alone, democracy or not. Even despot dictators will have to answer to someone, albeit informally. Plenty of room for debate and infighting.
I think the Imperium falling is the only thing you could do to meaningfully impact the setting. I felt like the galaxy being torn in half never really felt very impactful. Sure it sounds like stuff changed but if you look at it it's just the status quo continuing. The Imperium is in peril, everyone else is bad blah blah. Nothing meaningfully changed. I ended up doing my own head cannon for 40k cause I thought the Imperium shattering was the only thing that really needed to happen in 40k. You could really have different cultures, different factions etc sprout up instead of the boring dystopia the Imperium is now. At least that is how I feel.
I can also see a splintered Imperium leading to more xenos conflicts as well. Say for example, that a Necron dynasty decides to accept the vassalage or tributary status of a very small "successor state", and said small state gets raided by the Dark Eldar. The Necrons aren't going to just take that sitting down, they're going to try and do a small recreation of the War in Heaven on Comorragh's doorsteps. Sure it most likely doesn't lead to the Dark Eldar being wiped out, but it does create a cool conflict between two armies that at the very least I haven't seen fight often in the lore, and it perhaps has a small lasting side effect like the Dark Eldar avoiding that subsector for a century or so because they don't want to provoke a repeat of that episode.
See this is why the Imperium being as all encompassing as it is both in universe and with it being the clear favorite of GW is making the 40k universe as a whole far worse than its other Warhammer setting counterparts in Fantasy and Age of Sigmar. In those settings, races and factions regularly work together and fight each other for a plethora of reasons other than "hyper racism".
I feel like this is the way things should have gone with the Horus Hersey instead of splitting the legions/empire into two groups. There should have been 3 sides at the end of it. Loyalists: Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Iron hands, Raven Guard, Space Wolfs Chaos: Sons of Horus/Black Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children Independents/Renegades: Iron Warriors, White Scars, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Dark Angels, Blood Angels. It would have allowed for more moral shades of grey without having to turn everything grimderp to make sure there's no good guys. For example, independant Blood Angels got kicked out of the imperium because the red thirst and now hold their own parts of the galaxy. They're not bad to live in like chaos occupied space, and probably slightly better off than imperial space, but sometimes their benevolent rulers go insane and think a whole room full of people are all named Horus. Also everyone has to pay a blood tithe. That way its not good, not bad, but somewhere in between.
Agreed, I think alot of legions and their characters, including Primarchs would've been SO MUCH better written by just being independents or dissenters from the Imperium but STILL hated Chaos.
Guileman should just kill the Emperor and get Cawl to punt Holy Terra into intergalactic space using the teleporter tech Mars stole during the War of the Beast.
Something else about the lack of Mechanicus involvement with the Imperium, would mean the people don't have to worry about triggering the Mechanicus, ESPECIALLY if they're the enemy now. No more tech heresy restrictions. EDIT: And once again I advise everyone else to finish watching the video before making a comment. I did it again.
Yeah, he mentioned it but still I agree. Would be interesting to hear about factions that secretly had their own SUPER heretical R&D departments for centuries but could never truly bring many of their technological ambitions to the forefront for fear of zealous purging by the Mechnicus and the Imperium's wrath. But with both no longer able to exercise true force against them in any reasonable timeframe these human factions with their advanced technology could comfortably carve out their own unique niches throughout the fractious galaxy.
I would like something where the Lion comes back, says "Fuck that" to Primaris and establishes a section of the Imperium that focuses more on "First Born" (superior) Space Marines and the knightly culture that revolves around the Rock. Space Bretonnia, if you will.
I think this could happen just via saying parts of the imperium are splitting off. Sectors turning traitor (not chaos) would totally make sense in the Imperium Nihilus. I think we can have both. The Imperium kinda losing bits and pieces makes sense, then imperium stuff can stay as is and other bits like you said can remain.
I feel like having guilliman hold terra and be a sorta “official” imperium while half the empire fractures so we can still use the nice imperial asthetuc.
I love this idea purely because of the possibility of Dark Angels and Space Wolves taking their feud to the next level, which of course would be followed by the furries getting annihilated. Congrats on the 40k my man, I’m very happy I stumbled upon your channel and I’m happy I can support you!
Honestly even as an imperium fan I love this idea, the idea of dozens of mini imperium's allow for all different kinds of imperium ranging from truly dark and horrible to far more benevolent, not to mention the idea of Mini-imperiums allying themselves with different Xeno factions could be fun. Maybe the Blood Ravens could finally admit their true chapter master is Trazyn and we could get a whole faction of Digganobz who fight alongside orks because fuck it it sounds cool.
Very interesting idea though personally I think there’s another rather simple reason that could give way to the Imperium’s fracturing: the death of the Emperor. Yes, he’s already dead as he’s a corpse on a throne but at least there’s something there for people to worship. So, what if one day all that psychic energy being funnelled into the Emperor by the sacrificed psykers simply became too much and the Emperor’s corpse burnt up/disintegrated? Nobody on the throne, nobody to unite the Imperium any more. Are we really to believe that none of the Primarchs would attempt to lay claim to the throne as his heir? They’re all brothers so have it go full breakup akin to what happened with Alexander’s generals following his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire in that sense, with differing primarchs vying to be the next Emperor. Heck, want to go really out there with this? I’m hearing lots of chatter that the Emperor’s Children will be given their own range in 10th edition so why not tie this in to this clash for power? Have Fulgrim come back full snake-daemon form but claiming that his corruption should not outweigh his claim as the Emperor’s true heir. After all the ECs were the first chapter to wear the aquila and it’s pretty much in their name so why not work with that as a reason to bring them back into the setting in a big way?
@Morgan Allen I disagree with this. One just because the Imperium itself as any sort of coherent entity is gone doesn't mean humanity is doomed to extinction, atleast not ANY time soon, there's literally WAY too many humans for that to ever be a problem. What it will mean is that humans will no longer be the dominant force in the galaxy which isn't a bad thing. Also humans can and do have objectively better lives outside the Imperium whether thats non Imperium human civilizations. (yes they still exist even as of now its a HUGE galaxy) Or the Imperium worlds that have joined the t'au, their standards of living usally go up if only by a little. It should also be noted that the black ships mostly cull psykers wherever they go only taking the max number alive required to meet some quotas including those sacrificed to the Emperor, without the larger galaxy to draw from all that would change is that the black ships would just have to source pyskers closer to home, Terra or else risk raids into potentially unfriendly territory. Also as of the Great Rift's opening aren't pyskers becoming more and more common anyway? So the Astronomicons going no where anytime soon. And while I agree that the cargo cult mentality is in general going to be hard for many humans to break away from in particular I don't think it's impossible for many worlds to do so, many humans while not understanding the tech around them probably aren't all that zealous about preventing others from figuring some stuff out, especially if such insights end up benefiting them more. (safer working conditions, more efficiency, new innovations) And there'd very much would be a Byzantine facimially in this scenario, literally Guillimen's Ultramar is the SPACE Byzantine empire! And then there's the possibility of several sectors coming together to form their own empires or interstellar states ala the various rising kingdoms of post Rome Western Europe. The fact is the Imperium falling won't be the death knell for humanity, only the final fall of a corrupt, repressive, religious, dogmatic empire. Many humans can and will do better than that, the bars that low. And no, not all xenos are horrible, some are actually quite reasonable when your not trying to genocide them.
Why is Ultramar not fair to use let alone other potential post Imperium human successor states? What exactly constitutes as ""fair"" in your eyes? And yes, baring some warp disruptions other human civilizations including Ultramar benefits from the use of the astronomican, what of it? As for the black ships and feeding the Emperor sacrifices of psykers could not as powerful as he is now thanks to that boost he got the Great Rift happening just go without or even not needing nearly as many sacrifices, hell even back before all this it seemed hilariously small that apparently all it took was a thousand or so pyskers a day to support a galaxy spanning psychic entity like the Emperor, you'd think that number would be much higher. As for Terra, sure some distributions in supply may occur but I never got the impression that even Terra as overly industrialized and dependent it was on outside supplies needed the whole galaxy's worth of planets to support it, more like maybe a few sectors worth of shipments to maintain daily, vital operations with everything else basically being excess luxury tributes from the rest of the Imperium's planets. And even if it did pose a serious problem, *I say good,* that might actually motivate the custodes and the sisters of silence to be more proactive in the setting not to mention the other institutions based on Terra like the Ecclesiarchy, the Munitorum, the arbites and etc., *new challenges means new story opportunities.* As for different groups of humans developing their own ways of navigating the warp should be without the astronomicon you do know that it's not strictly necessary to warp travel, only that it provides a convenient waypoint for navigation, but doesn't make it impossible without it. Sure many of them would be lost utterly without such but many more would adapt, after all necessity is the mother of invention. If anything this is an opportunity for these successor groups to find their own unique ways if navigating the warp, sure they'd probably all be objectively inferior to the astronomicons power but not unviable. Just ask the t'au, they have managed quite well without the astronomicon (if we assume their psychic allies that yes, do exist cannot detect or use it) or even proper gellar fields so I don't see why some of the luckier and more inventive groups of humans couldn't come up with a number of makeshift solutions. True, nothing is guaranteed, I just DON'T see it nearly as hopeless as you, that said you seem pretty certain about things yourself. And while yes the Emperor suddenly dying would be catastrophic I agree, but I don't think that'll be THE end of humanity, only the beginning of another bloody chapter, the start of revolutions, the shifting of paradigms. Also not all advanced technology needs AI, you can have alot of progression without ever once messing with AI development, so there's apple room for various human civilizations to innovate on or even reinvent things long lost. Heck nothing says they can't still use servitors for their main robotic like labor! (as messed up that is)
interesting idea im a bit divided on it but if it were to happen i think that guilliman could make peace with the tau or even become allies. but it aint happenin this is GW were talking about.but maybe the dark imperium could get smashed so now a whole buffet of planets are up for grabs (not very good planets but planets none the less)
I dont think the whole imperium should fall but I do think it would be neat having factions break off and divide over things like, primaris marines, girlymans reforms, ad mech wanting autonomy etc etc think there are pleanty of internal conflicts that could be dialed up without really removing THE imperium
That's just functionally the same as THE Imperium falling apart but for some reason it officially collapsing gets your space underwear in a twist. And even then the Imperium would still be around or atleast the faction with the most legitimacy to the claim as a continuation of that state being whomever controls Terra and the immediate neighboring sectors surrounding it.
What your suggestion here is something I loved about old Star Wars legends. In legends when the empire fell it broke up into several different petty Kingdoms and dictatorships doing something like that with the impirium coul give you greate options for home brew.
I love how Mechanicus music started playing once you mentioned that Mankind should still survive. It just felt like “Yeah. You know these guys are gonna go apeshit on the planets of the now former imperium the moment they realize they don’t need to pretend the Emperor and Omnissiah are the same thing anymore.”
Returning to this video I hit upon a wonderfully grimdark idea You know how the Emperor is a fractured mind and is actively straining to get a coherent sentence out to one of his only active loyalist sons? You know how Cawl cautioned what got off the throne might not be what sat on it? What if the Emperor does come back but he's in pieces and all of them have their own visions of how to fix things, the imperium is loyal to the Emperor but which one? Can you imagine how fucking cool it could be if the Imperium descended into a civil war because its leader has dementia and his scattered fragments are giving contradictory orders, increasingly losing his mind as he sees the mess he's making but unable to stop it? It would be the grim-est of dark and you could still have humanity able to co-ordinate on some important things like keeping out chaos or tyranids, things the fragments of the Big E's soul would agree are more important than whether or not Humanity needs to be saved by subjugating the mechanicus, making an alliance with Ynnead or destroying the tau before its too late
Then they'd fart out, like, 30+ books covering that crusade and squeeze all the hype they can out of the Emperor returning (and then they'd use "The Emperor has returned!" as a selling point for over a decade lol)
I mean, tbf if they're going to bring the Emperor back, this would probably be a good way to do it imo. Like, the emperor finally wakes up, but JUST too late to save the Imperium.
It's amazing that the Imperium finally collapsing would create so many interesting story opportunities along with finally giving every other faction a proper chance to shine for once.
The inter-Imperial conflicts make a bit more sense if you assume they're ALREADY acting as if they're their own squabbling states. Because the Imperium is in such decline, its constituent parts do whatever they like, with only occasional pushback. Not to mention the fights that happen purely because of miscommunication, petty grudges, or a bureaucratic error. I do agree it would be pretty sweet if the Imperium were to fragment into many pieces. But I kind of like the part of the (attempted) satire of fascism that 40K is based on, that says the constant conflict is a result of self-inflicted wounds by a bloated, crumbling authoritarian state. Still, having more human civilizations than just the one would be pretty nice.
I can totally see this happening. Especially when more Primarchs come back again. It would be the fractured Holy Roman Empire where everybody hates eachother but work together when there is a common enemy like Abbadon comming around with "RandomNumber" Black Crusade. Tau would rise, the Eldar wouldn´t care, Orcs would approve. The Human Realm would decay in Pre-Great Crusade form and then: The Emperor would finally stand up and clap some cheeks again only to get caught in a Masterball by Trazyn.
I am a die-hard imperial but I can easily see the appeal in this, honestly if I ran the company i'd have this set up in parallel to draw a whole lot of interest so the actual main timeline can progress meaningfully and resolve and we can have a significantly more diverse and interesting set for this alternate one where the imperium fell Edit: Also I realised the massive missed opportunity when the Cicatrix maledictum was formed that time went at different speeds all over the place and the Astronomicon was knocked out, that right there could have been the fracturing event and while Gulliman was able to get Segmentum Solar back in order he wasn't able to get much more than that and Ultramar into barely-working shape
I love the idea of sub-Guard factions associated with each Xenos faction. We’ve already got Chaos Cultists & Genestealer Cults, but what about Harlequin Masqueraders? Or Shields of the Greater Good? Or the We-WAAAGH? Just the idea of a WAAAGH with random humans and a single Tau trying real hard is adorable
Actually that's a fantastic narrative idea elf boy. It would open up a lot of better smaller stories then "and then the main force arrived to save the day." Also thanks for continuing to mention repeatedly that the imperial guard should have more then just cadians. I promise me and my Valhalla army will not bombard you with basilisks and conscripts in that order only after we give you a 5 min head start.
IMO the easiest way to shatter the empire is to have another Primarch show up. Have Chagatai show up and be like “hey I’ve been active and conscious for 10k years and I’ve gone through an arch and undergone some serious character development. Turns out the big E was completely wrong and everything we fought for needs to be demolished”. Make some conflict between Robute waking up after 10k years and trying to fix everything back to the way it was and someone else who’s trying to move on from the past. Meanwhile all the smaller factions in the middle now have 2 sides to choose from, or 2 sides to play off each other while they try to do their own thing.
I remember hearing a bit of lore about Vulkan creating a machine that destroys Terra if the Golden Throne ever completely fails. I think this would make a very cool "End Times" for 40K, without the weirdness that was the fantasy End Times, as it's just the end of the Imperium, and not the whole setting. It would also be excellently grimdark for the protagonist faction to lose, and by its own hand too. Then all of the stuff you talk about here can happen!
Honestly, as a Necron player, some of my favorite lore bits are Necron lords interacting with the other people of the universe. Having the imperium fall could open so many amazing doors.
You are basically describing Warhammer 50k: the shape of the nightmare to come, a pretty good fanfic that explain what would happen in the 10 000 years following the end of the imperium
It could be like the fall of the roman empire, with the dark eldar suddenly attacking terra itself and while they probably wouldn't do much more than destroy a few things and kidnap a few million people it could convince the rest of the imperium that it's too weak to protect them and it's better to trust their local rulers
I actually have a pretty similar pet "what if?" timeline I came up with about 2-3 years ago. It hinged on the Lion returning (called that) just increasing tensions between the High Lords and Guilliman, which somehow leads to another coup attempt against the king of blueberries which leads to the entire realm of Ultramar seceding with the Ultramarines and some successors to back them up. And the rest proceeds from there
I was here, and i told you i subscribed because i wanted to see you get 40k subscribers. I acomplished my mission, but i intend to stay because i'm glad to be part of the OG 40k subs and because your lore content is awesome. You deserve it man.
I’d like to imagine the Sisters of Battle, Astra millitarum, and custodians would go together as the main imperium, and the marines and mechanicus would split off as their own factions
Honestly I would like to see planets lost during the dark age to appear and have their own societies and religion. Like a sect of Christianity survived and formed a theocracy that actually has an advantage over chaos and regularly exorcises them back into the warp or maybe a new version of the Imperium but running on a democracy in name only and along with other societies showing what millennia without any contact with the Imperium would produce.
I agree. The fact that all races are homogeneous in 40k makes the world feel much more narrow and limited than classic, when it should feel more deep and expansive, breaking up the homogeneous factions into more distinct ones would make a huge difference
I have watched your video since 2k and I gotta say ,you are the channel I go to for 40k content , I love your humor and your way of explaining the universe. having been in the hobby for 6 years,you are my favorite 40k channel yet
More reasons for this are one, with the Imperium broken down into more digestible chunks some of the writers could fully map out a few of the states. And two it would allow for new alien races to have their time to shine.
The Imperium splintering would be an interesting and really cool event. It could lead to so many cool stories and perhaps actual technological improvements in some parts. Plus stories of how The Emperor just gives up living and because a warp God would be cool also. Or Gilliman going on. crusade to bring humanity back under one banner. Primarchs returning would be cool too
I wholeheartedly agree and have wanted this for ages. Imagine a successor human state that believes in the concepts of democracy, technological advancement, enlightenment, and human rights coming out of this mess. They get the disadvantage of the naivity of not forseeing Tzeentch abusing their development, but they get really cool tech to counter it, and their human rights and education mean that fewer people even want to turn to chaos in the first place. The disadvantage with this is that you get a faction perhaps a little too similar to the Tau, but damn if it wouldn't be a really cool contrast to the grimdark blob of intellectual and moral regression that is the imperium. Would have a hell of an appeal for backwater planet #509437 over a random post-imperial warlord chapter of space marines that want to work a quarter of the population to death to get a 10% increase in industrial production.
See, I love the Imperium *too much to accept it's death* .....also would really fucking suck to see my favorite Major Faction be killed not even 3 years after I initially became aware of Warhammer and right as I am getting into the TableTop Games. Yeah, you're reasoning is great......but, if the Imperiums death sets up a 2nd and far more desperate Great Crusade from Segmentum Solar and potentially a 14th Black Crusade....THAT would be interesting. Would be absolutely awesome to see The Emperor return and try to salvage the patheticly rotting&very crispy corpse of his once Great-ish Space Empire without him becoming a Space-Cripple again. The possibilities if this is done good are amazing.....but the possibilities if it's handled shittily could very easily be the actual "End Times" for Warhammer 40k......GW has to approve this extremely carefully. Congratulations, you somehow convinced a Diehard Imperium Fanboy into thinking the Imperiums demise can actually be good for the Imperium somehow.....
See, that brings up the issue of: "Why?" If you split the Imperium again only to have him come back and unite everything again, what's the point? You just have pre-heresy Imperium. Which makes everything else pointless. Him dying? Irrelevant, he's back and he's better than ever now. The struggle of humanity fighting seemingly unwinnable odds? Well now you have the Emps, don't need to worry since you're probably gonna win. The Horus Heresy? Doesn't matter, he's gonna be resurrected anyway. The Imperium falling apart to create new more interesting factions? Who cares, they're all back and subjugated to do whatever he wants. List goes on.
Not death, fracturing. Like with Rome, the empire never ended, it just sort of disappeared one day. But before that it fractured into different states. Like let's say the imperium gave up on half the galaxy because of a massive rift. You still have the imperium and they are focused on fixing things. Then you have the human states who have lost the emperor's light on the opposite side. It keeps the imperium but allows for more stuff to happen
the problem with Big E coming back is that he's so juiced up he is a legitimate match for a chaos god (at least at the time when his whole plan was to starve them out) except he's also planted directly in the physical realm. Big E by himself should be able to kill legitimately anything in the setting, there's no way to points balance that - the only reason he even lost to horus is because he couldn't bear to hurt his own son until he finally realized he couldn't save him.
I'd like to see this happen. It'd be really funny if the mechanics started working with the Iron Hands or something lol. But seriously, it would be awesome to see humans clash in a game that's not Horus Heresy.
In fact Guilliman can't do much with Imperium rather than continue the status quo. He never deal with this monstrosity of the Empire in his life. He can normally rule Ultramar because it's 500 planets and it's easy especially easy when your Space Marines are not just warriors but high-tier politicians and managers. So he just trying to hold the decomposing of Imperium as long as he can. Although I think Robute knows that sooner or later this empire will fall.
If the Imperium were to completely collapse and fracture into different factions, they should have it be replaced by Orks who are trying to replicate the former Imperium
I wholeheartedly agree with the points you made, just saying "yeah things are terrible and gonna get worse super soon" without meaningfully changing the setting for decades before changing it slightly so the dominant power is even more dominant really makes it hard to engage with the series lore wise
Before I get on with my lore sperging, I just like to say fucking congratulations man. Been following you since possibly early on in the big popularity wave, and this is one of the few channels that I legitimately look forward to the next time it's going to upload. Anyway yes Space Marine feudalism 100% please and thank you
The Elclesiarcy 1000 years into this scenario when a important shrine world is lost(maybe terrain itself). "The leviton devinitnouticas may teach peace, but when the most holy are taken. It is every man's duty to claim it. A crusade is called."
I'd be about it. Especially if they put out the lore in RPG form. Space Dark Ages, a whole galaxy of dangerous, neat stuff, most of which you can profitably shoot.
Like Gulliman thinks the Imperium fell and creates Imperium 2, but then the Real Imperium takes this as treason and declares exterminatus or crusade. So then Gulliman has to reluctantly fight against the Zealots for the Survival of Ultramar.
As a Guard player who has always liked My Guys, and felt like the Imperium is a little stultifying for creativity, I am wholly in favor of the proposed development. Let it burn, and a thousand new ideas rise from the ashes.
@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat I already do- like I said, I play the game as it is. But there are lots of unique ideas that can't exist in a galaxy properly dominated by the Imperium. There's room for a lot of creativity as is, but there would be room for more in a galaxy with greater political diversity.
@@LollipopKnight2 But the Imperium already doesn't care what political systems planetary governments subscribe to already? All they care about is that the tithe comes in time and that local cults worship the Emperor in some way or another (and that isn't just fanon either, the Dark Heresy RPG mentions that missionaries generally only, to put it bluntly, point at a culture's chief god, or the central deity of a local pantheon, and say "See that? That's actually the Emperor. See all the other gods? They are actually Saints/Primarchs." and so forth. The conversion process isn't really that invasive.). They don't care if a planetary government is a monarchy, republic, caste-based, or what have you. Also, the Imperial Guard doesn't really care about bringing unique wargear to the table either. On the lower end, the Harakoni Warhawks, for example, have remote-controlled mortars, or the Tanith First which have cloaks that adapt their camouflage to their environment, and on the weirder end you got stuff like the Arkan Confederates which have units of so-called "Steamblood Zouaves" which wear Power Armor armed with buzzsaws and Heavy Stubbers. So yeah, as long as the planet can actually logistically support fancy equipment, and and they can fit it into their combat doctrine, Imperial High Command would just shrug and say "You do you.".
The Imperium imposes more constraints than you think. First, the tithe itself is ruinous in the vast majority of circumstances, and leads to abusive work practices. There's a reason that the Imperium is continuously putting down revolts, and is considered the bloodiest, most brutal regime imaginable. There are exceptions, such as the worlds of Ultramar, but they are meant to be staggeringly rare. Second, worship of the Emperor is still mandatory. Adherence to other belief systems can, at best, take a secondary role in society. Third, working with the Imperium requires openness to Imperial institutions. Worshipful admiration of Space Marines, acceptance of the Mechanicus's instruction concerning tech-heresy, cooperation with the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition are all mandatory, or else your homebrew planet is on the list for a virus bombing. Fourth, as members of the Imperium, human planets can have no overt diplomatic relations with any xenos warmer than 'we can't kill you YET'. That cuts out all the overt diplomatic options between xenocide and full alliances. That seriously limits the sorts of interstellar politics possible. There is still the option for covert actions, and outright treachery, but, again, that's a virus bombing. There's ways to work around all of these, and even within the explicit lines, there's still a lot of options, but they are constraints, and some interesting stuff could be had beyond them.
@@LollipopKnight2 Just say your homebrew planet was misfiled as "deadworld", but they actually thrived and they are isolated enough to have no restraines. Maybe the mechanicum got off-planet after the recourse flow stopped. Maybe a revolt and reformation was succesful without an imperium knowing/caring they exist. Or simply enough time has pasted that nobody remembers the old ways. It was mentioned multiple times that it's not unusual to rediscover planets who got lost in the bureaucracy, it wouldn't be that farfeched. The setting allows for much variation, look f.ex. at Luetin09s fanwork. And if you're really all on the fragmented imperium idea, how about a small system that was thought to be dead/under xenos control who think they're the last of the imperium after their warpengines all broke and are completely isolated and doing all that goof stuff talked about in the video.
You don't need widespread revolts and cataclysms. All you need the astronomican to lose just a tad bit of power and for a bunch of select warpstorm to make communication difficult. Give it a century and the Imperium will have fragmented in regional governments. Not because of greed or revolts, but by pure pragmatism. Some areas, without external support, will fall and be overwhelmed, while others will see their vast resources, now not sent to the far corners of the galaxy, propel them to new heights. Sector governos are already de facto sole rulers of their domains and only pay lip service to the imperium at large they don't need much of a push to forget about far away people they can't reach or call and focus on protecting their sectors. Allthough, the more i listen to your scenario: -people not wanting to have anything to do with the previous big state -people fighting over who's the true her to the previous big state -a cult of technocrats more powerful than other factions that works with all other factions and moves behind the scenes My guy, this is just Battletech
This is really cool. Been here since 20k, and love your fresh takes on things. Keep going, and I can't wait for a potential Halo Covenant in 40k part 2
The best part about this is that all these lesser states actually become stronger than the sums of their parts within the Imperium. Because the weight of Imperial Bureaucracy is gone, they can concentrate all their resources on their own stuff, work out how to work things out in a more efficient manner. Each Imperium player would be a Nation of themselves, Groups of Imperium Players in each store or play area could band together or draw the line between each other as they wished. This entire idea would actually EMBRACE the advances of 3D printing, because then players could design their own Imperial Guard Armies (with maybe instead of Lasguns maybe instead they have Mag Rifles, Instead of Space HRE Nobles you have Napoleonic Republicism IG, etc etc) Space Marine Power Marks, Xeno differences. It'd open up the door to a return to form, of True "Your Dudes". If GW invested heavily in getting a bunch of 3d Printers primed and ready, they could take custom orders from customers, it'd be a great move imho. But we both know that part won't happen.
That would actually make a good counterpoint to the immediate reaction of 'Now humanity is so doomed why should we care?' Have your book detailing the fall of the imperium point out that in a lot of places, humanity gets significantly stronger locally. (The interesting exception being Ultramar.) The entire Badab War became the mess it was because Imperial inefficency became too much and a local space marine chapter master said 'screw it'... and suddenly the sector went from 'barely holding on' to 'the most well protected area in the galaxy short of Terra' because all those resources were being used locally, without being subject to 200 layers of graft.
The thing is, I don't like 3D printed models, I find them to look worse than normal ones. I'd like to see GW make models with a focus on kitbashing in this scenario.
@@Jsay18 How is nobody having a good enough printer a skill issue? And anyway, I haven't bought anything from GW in ages, although I still play WH40K (and lots of Kill Team), I mostly put together Gunpla, because I don't like painting much, and GW's prices are too high. I'm planning on building a "titan" that's actually a heavily modified PG Zaku II.
It would also make the return of a primarch far more compelling. They set out to save the imperium only to find it fragmented and a shell of its former self. Then they could struggle to agree on how best to rebuild it.
Dark imperium may be the source for that bit about space marines ruling planets. In a scene guilliman specifically outlines a plan where most of the realm of ultramar had their planetary governments replaced with space marine rule.
Thanks for making content man 👍🏻 My buddies and I love playing GW games, having a few drinks, and then putting your videos on and laughing our asses off
Hyped up, but consistantly shown to be very much beatable. If anything with it collapsing many worlds and whole sectors could more readily respond to threats not having to wait for the painfully slow bureaucracy of the Imperium to catch up. Plus without the oversight of the Imperium and the Mechanicus many planets and even systems could pull their resources together and start rapidly develop their technology and especially weapons research so as to better defend themselves since they can no longer rely on a larger state for marginal project. Plus there's always mutual defensive alliances between successor factions to help cover each other's flanks against common threats.
To everyone who might think that this is just the incredibly biased opinion of a Xenos player:
Yes.
Can you do the Harlequins? Complete the Eldar Simp Trinity.
But wouldn’t Guiliman just crush everyone. He has Ultramar. Maybe Lion coming back might change things.
you have fair points, but at least we didn't murderfuck slaneesh into existence and so high up on ourselves that we massacre planets for being on a tomb world without you know, INFORMING FIRST. but hey, heresy kill xenos right?
love, a guardsmen
(PS: this is all a joke, sorry if you took it the wrong way)
Ya know, one day I do hope you do a 'which chaos god' is the best video, as well as 'what warhammer character is the best'. My vote for both would be Slaanesh and Fulgrim. Say what you will about being possessed and guilt-ridden over the brother he killed, Fulgrim by far is the living the best life out of any warhammer character. he basically lives on a planet of endless pleasure, he's incredibly powerful (killed 2 primarchs ), he's immortal, and he doesn't have to worry about his future or the continuation of humanity...or anything really. All he has to do is lounge around being serviced by his minions in boundless pleasure, and whenever he wants to mix things up, he can strike out into battle and fight anyone he wants, inflicting pain upon himself and the enemy (and given how much enjoyment he constantly feels, the pain might actually be a healthy change of pace). He doesn't have to worry about the tyranids eating the galaxy or the endless toil of the imperium of man. he's basically living in 'paradise' at this point. Even if he is killed he'll just get revived in the warp, and then he gets to experience all the 'endless pleasure' all over again. compared to his brothers Angron (who is basically a brainless brute who gets to chop off heads like its his new 24 hour day job), Mortarion (who smells like literal piss and shit all the time, and whose senses are numbed to the point where he can barely feel anything anymore), and Magnus (who is essentially another workaholic who has to constant stress out over the trillions of plots that he is constantly planning). Fulgirm, on the other hand, is just a happy stoner that gets to chill all day and be massaged and waited on by countless servants until the end of fucking time. lol
I relate xD
Theory: The terminus decree is just instructions to summon a min max stellaris player to “Micro” the empire
“I assure you, Emperor, building pleasure domes on every planet in the Imperium is CRUCIAL to the survival of mankind.”
@@pancreasnowork9939 _Slaanesh Liked this_
Or, it's cheat codes to murder everyone.
40k is stellaris but with LoversLab mods installed
@@pancreasnowork9939and the Stellaris player would actually be correct
Theory: if the Emperor were to wake up, the "Imperium" wouldn't thrive. He would start anew and bring it all to ruin so he can rebuilt the great Galaxy expanding empire he always wanted. It's easier to paint over a white canvas than to correct every little mistake ever
That, and awakening the Emperor would probably mean killing him first, which would depower the Astronomicon and the Golden Throne, so Terra would most likely go poof and the warp storms wouldn't leave much Imperium left anyway (kinda like a second Age of Strife)
I disagree, he’d have to kill way too much of the Imperium to “wipe the slate clean”. By the time he finished there’s no way he could stop the onslaught of both Tyranids and Orks from crushing everything. Only so many worlds fit for human habitation without aliens destroying them, and that’s not even getting into the various exterminatus needed for said slate wiping.
I mean, the point of a galactic empire was to see humanity reach its full potential so wiping out all the humans seems a bit counter intuitive
I mean that’s fair. The emperor was just ego tripping for the most part while making the imperium so like it makes sense he’d do just as bad of a job the first time
Given what the Emperor seems to be about, I imagine he would take a more practical approach. Unfortunately, the Imperium under him probably wouldn’t change much until things were in a much more workable state.
If this would happen I would love for planets to still think the imperium exists even though it collapsed like 100 years ago, just because it never did anything for them anyway
That is the most warhammer 40k thing to happen in this scenario and I love it.
**hears that the Imperium is long gone**
Ex Imperial world citizen: Oh? Really now? That is bloody well sad...welp back to my back breaking labour in some dark, stale, forsaken mineshaft so my planet's overlords can afford their huge banquets in their high spires!
Imagine a planet still pay its tithe long after the imperium is gone. Due to the absolute fuckups that is the imperium's bureaucarcy. Shit just get sent to planets already dead/dominated by xenos and chaos and not heard from again. But nobody even care because back then, it's the same.
They might even like it as the tithe wont increase anytime soon
Legend becomes myth, myth becomes reality when the tax man comes a calling.
Just like the emperor.
you finally did it, you truly are the Warhammer 40,000
Thank you Dick Assley
He didn't say that.
Why would the emperor trust Horus when his last name is literally Heresy??
my favorite moment in the books is when the emperor said "ahhh it feels good to finally be off that damn throne, now bring me all 40 thousand warhammers."
@@jart1984 gotta love when the Big E stood up, said "It's time to Warhammer" and 40ked on eveyrone
plus it would make primarch returns more interesting. they return with the intention of rebuilding the imperium only to find that many of them have different ideas about how it should be done. Now not only do you get to bring back fan favourite characters but you also get to have them interact in new and interesting ways
I could see door coming back and slapping guiliman upside the head with his massive legion showing the codex is shit
Honestly, the Imperium falling would be a perfect time to bring the Primarchs back. Because bringing them back now would make the Imperium a bit too strong, looking at what just Guily coming back did. But if the Imperium fell, the Primarchs coming back could justify why forces like Chaos, the Orks, and the Tyranids don't just steamroll the shattered Imperium.
However would have there primarchs would survive. I would want to live on Nocturne, or Macragge in this time.
@@manjoring5944 Honestly though, the Codex was prefect for its time. The Legions were big, unwieldy, and often slow to respond. They were an unstoppable wrecking ball perfect for conquering, but they aren't suited for protecting large areas of already held space. Look what constantly breaking apart a legion did to the Iron Warriors. The increased autonomy of Chapters was prefect for a post-Scouring, pre-Great Rift Imperium that just needed to be defended, not conquered.
G-man and the Lion would dust off their Imperium Secundus project while Dorn would stay on Terra as praetorian. In the meantime Vulkan would run back and forth saving as much people as possible. And the Khan would just purge
It would be extremely funny if Abaddon finally won, proclaimed himself the next emperor of man, then immediately most of the other chaos factions went "up yours, buddy!" and went back to fighting each other.
That. Is the goal. Only failbadon has any illusions that he can hold his empire.
Honestly part of me wishes that if the Imperium falls, it would be for the most mundane reason. An adept at the administorum could uncover really old documents stating that the Imperium has officially dissolved, but no one bothered to spread the information. Alternatively, Guilliman could use a tried and tested strategy from the Codex: Corporatus called "rebranding".
While it would be unsatisfying, I would want it for the simple reason that it adds contrast to the craziness of 40k. Plus it fits the bureaucratic hell that is the Imperium. Just remember that the Sisters of Battle exist because of a legal loop hole ("The ministorum will not have any men under arms").
I imagine something akin to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the DDR. A badly organised press meeting of the High Lords of Terra where on of the Lords accidentally lifts travel regulations to Terra, prompting a mass pilgrimage of entire world populations, collapsing entire sectors, Trade routes and the Terran defense.
A man can still hope.
In all seriousness, this would be a great way to reintroduce Exodites as a modern faction. In multiple stories the Exodites have been shown willing to cooperate with humans and I think this would be a great opportunity to create a hybrid Eldar/Human faction. Previous treaties always got killed by some inquisition force who got a whiff of xenos, and with a fractured imperium, Exodites could reasonably resurface in somewhat cooperative force with humans. There is a city if AoS that does something similar, combining human tech with wood elf nature for some cool ascetics.
And let’s be real, dinosaurs strapped with lazcannons and bolters sounds badass
This actually sounds great
God I wish they’d get their own army so bad. The Asrai in Fantasy were so fucking dope and it sucks they’ve got no 40K counterpart in a meaningful sense.
To some extent I get it because in a sci fi setting a faction whose whole schtick is “never leaves their planet” isn’t ideal for a sci fi setting but there’s still potential with the webway for them to be their own thing.
@@pancreasnowork9939 if the Dark Eldar can be based out of 1 city, then the Exodites can definitely use the web way to be a relevant force. #Exodites4warhammer
I just want space elves riding dinosaurs with lasers
The Mechanicus pulling a ComStar sounds absolutely horrifying and I want it
Remember to pay your bills fucko
Or some people making their own tech.
You've read the best that GW has to offer. Light fun with overtones of grimdark. The silly things are taken with a grain of salt instead of killing a planet because someone asked what chaos is....
If the imperium falls i can finally get a fully realized mechanicus chad nation state.
You know Stygies VIII is immediately creating a Xeno-Human tech hydrid army and daring whatever is left of the Ordo Xenos to fight them in the parking lot.
@@mrsniffles5417 i would pay to see that bum fights video
Maybe we can have some actual space communists instead of just the Tau.
@@mrsniffles5417 Yeah. If Stygies VIII was allowed to incorporate xenos tech since the imperium is gone, they'd not bother trying to be sneaky anymore, they could kill almost anyone.
@@seekingabsolution1907
T'au are not communist, but yeah, like Pancreas said with the Imperium gone maybe we could FINALLY see prominent INTERSTELLAR human factions that try to recreate or even rediscover the various OTHER governmental systems we have invented over the millennium other than SPACE feudalism/aristocracy. Imagine a secretive but popular movement of manufactorum workers from across a whole sector actually manages to stage successful overthrows of their planet's aristocratic rulers, likely with some outside help (preferably no Chaos involved, atleast not in a big way please) and taking advantage of the confusion from the collapse of the Imperium happining around the same time.
I want Guilliman to be the cause of the imperium fracturing. He wrote a book about how no one should ever have as much power as Horus, then assumes more power than Horus ever did and then starts bending every space marine chapter in the galaxy to his will based on self given authority. Love him or hate him I could see this primaris replacement scheme causing a civil war between Guilliman and Cawl’s new order and all the hardliners they’ve been trampling over
You keep forgetting that he's bending a wretched corpse of an Imperium into something that can be a actually governed
Didnt the Black Templars kill all of their primaris marines?
@@mrhyde4732
No that would be the Dark Angels
@@maksymilians931 I thought the templars did that too...wishful thinking i guess
@@maksymilians931 That happend Valrak made a video about it
I think it really depends how it falls. It would be interesting if it was like that of Rome where it's kinda disputed when it actually happened. Hell, one could argue it happened when the Emperor got imprisoned on the Golden Throne, since he's no longer running the show and it's changed into something completely opposite of his intentions. Potentially, Ultramar declaring independence could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Gulliman slowly becomes more and more disgusted with what his father and his empire have become and decides to leave them to rot, creating his own empire more in-line with the Emperor's original vision.
Actually that would be a fun faction to make. They believe Emps is a god but has been chained to the Golden throne to be used by the high lords for their own end. So they start a crusade to release the emperor from his prison
@@haroldsandahl6408 Damn, not what I was thinking, but still a really good idea. There are even some theories (in real-life not in-universe) that state something like this.
@@haroldsandahl6408 imagine a huge blue gothic battering ram coming from space down onto holy terra as guilliman tries to take his father from the glorified catholic elderly home
@@haroldsandahl6408,
Suppose a (likely alternate) reality where they're right and Chaos is mostly made up as a second layer to the lies they tell the peasants. The Horus Heresy was just the Primarchs being human without major outside interference. Chaos corruption of psykers is just them succumbing to their own inner demons instead of some higher power, and corruption of non-psykers is the same happening to them via latent powers or externally by others. Daemons are mundane Warp phenomena that occur naturally and/or are accidentally or intentionally created by people messing with the Warp.
I'm intrigued. Honestly that might even be more interesting to me than the canon setting, as one of those people who unironically think Attack of the Clones was a good story.
"the tau just wiped out a human faction!"
That single event angered humanity so much that reunification was inevitable.
Unlikely.
*Rest of humanity:* Fuck those guys, the blue semi-goats can have that crap hole of SPACE anyway!
@@seekingabsolution1907 Not too unlikely. We are incredibly divisive as a specie like you-gave-a-4-stars-rating-while-I-gave-a-5-stars-rating-fight-me-you-goddamn-scrub divisive but we do tend to team up rather fast when there's an external threat.
See the first crusade. Most European nations(ish) where very happy just bashing each other over the head but the moment the Arabs made some real headway in their continent they decided to bash THEIR heads in together instead. This is a MASSIVE oversimplification but it illustrate the point.
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine no we don't. Have you lived through the same pandemic I have? What about the climate crisis? Sure our scientific community has coordinated ina stunning display of selfless pragmatism but the governments, corporations, nation-states etc have all been the same quibbling selfish backstabbing morons they always have been.
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine
And? Doesn't mean that'd happen in the Warhammer 40K universe. Hell even with the Imperium as is, many human worlds willing join the t'au and with it gone, that strategy of getting planets to join them without a fight would be even more effective because hey better to join with or be subservient to the objectively nicer (though still somewhat oppressive) xenos empire then take your chances fighting of the ork warbands and tyranid hive fleet that's eyeing your pitiful little backwater planet like vultures to a rancid corpse.
I actually have been running a homebrew campaign where the imperium fell and fractured with two successor states being the most powerful of the imperial remnants. One run by the Ecclesiarchy claiming to be the true and rightful heirs to the imperium. They still control the inquisition, some space marine fanatics, like the Black Templars and the Grey Knights, and most of the Astra Militarum. And the other is the Kingdom of Ultramar run by Guilliman. Most space marine chapters would pledge their allegiance to him and he would form the Royal Army from PDF’s and Guard regiments that plaedged allegiance to him. Guilliman also outlawed the worship of the emperor, and promises to better the lives of humans and vows to carry out his father’s grand plan of uniting humanity and claiming the stars
The funniest part about outlawing the worship of the emperor is that faith in Big E legitimately provides protection against chaos just because enough people think it does
curious, since the Adepta Sororitas for example have many of their number greatly admiring Guilliman, how would you handle an Adepta Sororitas order siding with Guilliman? Would they still receive the blessings of the emperor that they are so renowned for?
@@M3RUL3Z you know, that’s a really good question. None of my buddies play Adepta Sororitas so I never thought of it. I’m gonna have to get back to you on that one. What are your thoughts?
@@M3RUL3Z They admire guilliman because he is the son of the emperor
Space nuns draw their power from devotion to Big E, essentially the emperors presence in the warp is so strong that living saints like Celestine are an equivalent to daemon princes
So they would side with whoever they thought had the emperors divine mandate and would likely see guilliman denying the emperors godhood as heresy
@@SWProductions100 That’s pretty good. Makes sense too. I like it
It's always nice to see someone talk about the imperium ending, but not having humanity just die off right after!
Yeah, there's literally way too many humans for the species to just suddenly die of if the Imperium collapsed, sure humans would probably never again dominate the galaxy but honestly I think that's a good thing. Atleast it would force writers to pay attention to various other xenos factions rising in the midst of the confusion of the fall of the ULTRA xenophobic empire they hated.
Yeah whenever people talk about the emporium collapsing i always envisioned it as a star League scenario in which successor states would immediately pop up.
@@IronWarrior_69
*"Emporium.."* Now I'm imagining a public square space the size of a small nation on some weirdly beautiful hive world's well...hive city full of cute little shops, the interesting hook is that the planet was on the Eye of Terror side of the Great Rift and as such is among the thousands if not millions of worlds that were cut off from the remaining Imperium. Except instead of becoming some murder filled hellhole like the old propaganda said would happen the planet's populace, the masses staged a successful takeover of their planet from the clutches of the old hierarchical elites that once ruled them. They since became an trading hub were all manner of weird goods are traded and people engaging in what would've been under the Imperium's iron boot considered extremely heretical relationships between humans and various xenos civilizations and even other human successor factions all come to this plesently refreshing little world to well...trade with many of the shops being run by various alien species some of which not even the Ordo Xenos have heard of, from t'au *"unsanctioned merchants" (their Rouge traders)* to yes even *"ork pawnshops" (because yes!)* can be found amongst the stalls and spaces!
You're all fucking heretics
@@navilluscire2567 Since Humanity survived the Dark Ages the fall of the Imperium would be a walk in the park. Not individually but with the IOM gone many things would get better once they are "past the bottleneck".
Having read a lot of Dan Abnett stuff, where rival Guard regiments end up fighting each other or Inquisitors go after each other for real and imagined crimes . . . I feel like the Imperium is constantly in a borderline state of civil war anyways. Maybe the factional infighting isn't quite to the level that you see at your local gamestore, but the tabletop isn't supposed to perfectly match the lore anyways. (After all there's supposed to be 1,000 marines per most chapter and most humans will rarely see the, but you wouldn't know it from how many marine armies there are). Also I can't find the link but I did find a PDF where someone made a list of reasons Imperial factions might fight each other to justify these tabletop skirmishes.
The factions seem to be written in a way that you can justify ANY tabletop matchup.
That might not be strictly true but I can’t think of any right now that don’t make sense.
@@reginlief1
Hell even *tyranid vs tyranid* can be sorta justified because say a small hive fleet tendril somehow became severed from the hivemind's synapse and started to act more erratic and independent, eventually bumping into another still connected tendril only for them to try and eat each other (basically space battles) or say it intercepts a connected hive fleet that's in the process of well...eating an entire world, so this rouge fleet sends its own hordes of severed tyranid forms into battle against the invading fleet's ground forces. (with the traditional table top or other strategy games)
Theres also dawn of War.
And the months of shame where the grey knights and inquisition tried to extinct the space wolves for the heinous act of not wanting civilians and veterans who risked their lives to stop HELL, from being unceremoniously euthanized
In third edition codexes there was a section at the end explaining why this faction would want to fight all the others or even themselves, there were things like suspecting each other of chaos taint, receiving contradicting orders from the administratum, both claiming right to posses a relic...
Maybe the PDF was taken from there, it added a lot of flavor imo.
@@navilluscire2567 i personally like the idea of one hive fleet deeming it necessary to consume another, maybe because it thinks it will become something greater or that it’s methods are better and therefore more important to fuel than the other’s.
I can see the Black Templars and their gang of sycophants waging holy war against the newly reformed Mechanicum while Ultramar and the T’au Empire form an uneasy alliance to fight against the Tyranids. Meanwhile the Sororitas and the Custodes reconvene on Terra to try to reclaim the Imperium as the emperor’s truest servants.
I honestly think it is a given that Ultramar in a fractured Galaxy would Ally with the Farsight Enclave and eldar like Eldrad Ulthran.
@@Sakura_Matouor everyone they can get, really
One downside I could see is that Imperium fans would get PISSED! They're the most popular faction in the setting so if they go down there would likely be massive backlash and people may decide to not spend money on the game even if they add new human stuff.
Not saying I disagree, just that it's something that would likely happen
Necron and Eldar players: Join the club
But then the Imperium could still exist, centered on Terra and, perhaps, a fair chunk of Segmentum Solar. It'd just be... weaker. Like how the Galactic Empire fractured into numerous smaller "Empires" in Star Wars Legends.
@@theinquisitor8112 honestly, it’s the best of both worlds. Just because the imperium shatters, doesn’t mean the imperium has to go away completely. You can keep everything as is, and just write up a story about it falling apart into warring states with more unique flavor that’s still human. I think it’s a great idea
Don't have to axe the codexes or factions, just have a four way war between Gulliman, Dorn/Lion/Russ, Ecclesiarchy-Overtaken-by-Inquisition, and AdMech-who-want-to-bring-back-Void-Dragon. Have each codex apply rules for each of these four new Imperial successors that make them no longer "Battle Brothers," have every faction schism around four central human powers without ditching the models, rules, or lore if someone writes it right.
Space Marines are the biggest faction in the game overall and they still made primaris for no reason and divided that fanbase.
The funny thing is that if left for another 200 or so years, a genestealer cult on terra woulda probably just done it themselves lmao.
Dies to chair explosion
Yeah shit is, theres probably already a shit ton of those and terra, +chaos cults. They havent done a damn thing, because the security on terra is something else. And around 8thousand custodes
Well they wouldn’t breach the palace, Custodes are to strong and I’m pretty sure Gilliman and hordes of marines would come to terra
Honestly I'm surprised there isn't a faction or factions of humans that rebelled against the imperium. And when I mean rebelled I mean they fully understand what the hell happening in the galaxy (chaos, elves, orks etc). I mean realistically not every human in the galaxy can't be that ignorant on what the hell is happening. Gene stealers and chaos worshippers don't count for rebellion. I'm referring to a normal human or a group of humans (astartes as well) who got fed up of the imperium crap and decide to revolt or at least against the imperium fundamentally.
So far the only factions that I could think of with that concept in 40k is the interex, diasporex and serveran dominate. I mean the interex and diasporex are in my opinion the more believable 40k human factions. Interex actually had means to combat chaos and had good relationships with xenos and the diasporex just wanted to be left alone by the imperium. Unfortunately they died out because plot and less firepower. Interex was destroyed due to erebus and diasporex was wiped out due to Fulgrim and Ferrus. I don't know much about the severan. Apparently they have a basterdized version of the imperial cult which is already basterdized version of the imperial truth which is also a basterdized version of atheism.
It would be nice if there were more resistance against the imperium. A genuine resistance. Not some chaos cult or gene stealer. Something like the interex and diasporex. I mean those the factions were actually pretty cool in their own way. If not actually believable at times.
@@jonathanathor117 yeah, I'm surprised that we don't have one, I mean the tau human faction exist but we barely get anything about them because imperium fans get al whynny if it isn't 24/7 about them and how the imperium is perfect
The fifth edition warhammer 40,000 rulebook! On a condensed history of the Imperium, it says that during the ‘Time of Ending,’ more worlds are being turned over to the Astartes for governance. I remember this because 5th edition was my first when I got into 40K.
Anyway, this is a very cool idea and I endorse it. I do not have much to say beyond “Hi, let me be your citation”
Please stand by, Ordo Acuratus Infomatium is coming to declare you a saint. And they’re trampling everyone in the way.
Personally, as a Tau player, the fact that they are totally screwed is why I like them. They live short lives in a galaxy where everyone wants to kill them only to be promised nothing in death besides knowing that they fought for what they believed in, even though it never had a chance. If that’s not Grimdark… idk what is. Throw in it being lead by a self aware AI clone and Farsight being one bad day away from screaming “BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD” as he runs into battle…there ya go
Self aware AI clone wot wot?
@@PS-cu2cv Pretty sure he means Ob Lotai 9-0. It's an Ai piloting a battlesuit, but it's just an engram of the pilot.
He is talking about Aun'va ya simpletons, guy's been a solid-light sentient hologram since agrellan a few centuries ago... which is actually much smarter than what the imperium is doing still, at least our dead leader lives on trough an AI modeled after his actual personality and doesnt require 1000 sacrifices of potentially useful assets every day
Honestly, I think there is some great possibility to make both the normal Tao and the Enclaves more Grimdark without actually making everything chaos fault. The Tau empire is pretty easy, just lean a bit more into the mind control, maybe a secret police a la the Dai Le (there is no war with the enclaves) and for Farsight, well ... maybe the enclaves had quite the large population before he showed up and had the idea to undertake a great leap forwards ... also, it would also be verry easy to have actually been right about everything if you also the moral authority to rewrite the curiculum to fit the bill (what do you mean the undersupplied force had no chance of making it? They were the verry vanguard of our cause! its just their comander was an athereal agent undermining our most glorious (crossed out rebellion) revolution! Now go back to your textbooks missing some pages because the athereals thaugt wasting paper with their imperialistic formulas was a good idea)
So yeah, mind control normal Tau and an enclave with the political and developmental ideas of mao (add a "he is our great leader" if you really want to spice it up) and an attitude towards their armies like the early french revolution, reframe earlier books as propaganda and we have ourselves some verry Grimdark Tau right there
@@emileo5024 The 'mind control' idea is so one dimensional and cringe, 40K can do so much better than that. The propaganda idea may be decent, but that already exists through 'the greater good'. There's no need to over-write it and make it convoluted.
The Hammer number has been achieved.
In all honestly, great work my dude, glad to see your growth!
Honestly this is a super cool idea. Shattering the imperium doesn’t mean getting rid of it, and having some more human variety would be fucking awesome. It’s a win win
The Imperium will just become the 40k version of Reichland in Fantasy
Most importantly, the Imperium collapsing would finally give way to Space America forming. Led by the George President of American Kind. It would be beautiful.
MERICA!!!
@@isaiahgay5295 FUCK YEAH!!!
Heritics your day is through, cuz now you gotta answer to . . .
AMERICA, F*CK YEAH!
I honestly really like your premise for a broken humanity. I think it would be an interesting way to shake up the setting and actually give it the "humanity is dying" thing actual validity
A minute human fed colony is the straw that breaks the Imperiums back.
The Defensive dream team is the Imperial Fist, the Death Korps of Krieg, and Tau. Think about it; the Imperial Fist build and man the wall, the Death Korps will man the trenches in front of the wall with artillery behind the wall, and Tau long ranges weapons at strategically placed on the wall and in the trenches.
I'd replace the Tau by Vindicare/other assassins temple for a few reasons or maybe mechanicus. The first is that they're better at removing specific threat and are better sniper (solid slug is better than energy weapon for sniping because they don't reveal your position).
The second is that they already kinda belong to the same faction so there is less frictions. Which, if you have to defend a spot, cohesion is critical for success.
The third is that once you have a fortification with artillery, the Tau don't really have anything to add to the table. Sure, lorewise, pulse rifle are great but they really can't do more than heavy bolters, autocannons, mass artillery fire and so on. They just don't fill enough of a niche.
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine counterpoint: funny railguns
@@jart1984 Counter counter point : fully automatic rocket propelled grenade launcher
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine counter counter counter point: drones
Question: What's your counter to Warp nonsense? Because I think you need either Necrons (Fortify against the warp!) or Eldar (Our wizards counter your wizards!) to make it just right.
Big E: "I'm awake! What the fuck have y'all been doing. I'm out."
The Imperium: Umm... infighting begins...
"I told you he wasn't god!" "He's testing us!" "Hail the Omnissah!" "Dad's back but went to get milk or something!"
Lorgar would shit himself if he came back
@@pancreasnowork9939 I am pretty sure Lorgar would flip sides if The Emperor told him three simple words. "You were right." Which honestly would make a comedically giant mess of Chaos.
If big E 'woke up' that by itself would spell the end of the imperium. Turns out your space empire needs to be able to travel through space so the astronomicon is pretty important.
What you are describing is literally just BattleTech. A human empire collapses into idealogically and culturally diverse successor states that fight over its legacy meanwhile the previous tech wizards play them all off against each other. Its why I have always viewed Battletech as a more realisitic and fleshed out version of the "Fuedalism in space" concept.
Yooo, i was only recently introduced to battletech though the Mercenaries game on xbox.
The setting is lit and combat mechs make my brain go brrrrr
Except 40K isn't exactly going for realism..
Another great thing about the imperium collapsing is that without the hyper anti-xeno faction exterminating any and everything alien it leaves room for new and interesting xenos to pop up and actually be a force to be reckoned with. One of your earlier videos was about how the Covenant would be a great race for 40k, well what if let’s say there was a race of aliens that was almost completely wiped out by the imperium. They went around the galaxy on a sort of Ark type ship collecting a few aliens off of each planet the imperium was going to purge and created this massive super coalition of alien races all hell bent on exacting revenge against the humans that destroyed their races. So much opportunity for interesting new plot points for the setting if the imperium falls.
So the tau?
A big story opportunity would be seeing the perspective of a newly independent planet/system desperately weighing its options on who (if anyone) it's going to ally with. Say there's a planet that's within spitting distance of both Tau space, a Marine fortress world, and a Craftworld is hanging out in the area for the moment. The planet's leader's may want to take a shot at remaining autonomous, but a Waagh or chaos fleet is approaching the system. Do they try to make a stand on their own and retain their newfound freedom? Will they submit to the Marines in exchange for protection, returning to the oppression they only just escaped? Maybe they'll take a chance with the Tau, putting all their chips on the bet that they'll be kinder overlords. Or maybe some madman will suggest straight up abandoning the planet by (somehow) striking a deal with the Craftworlders for a mass evacuation. There could be all sorts of debates or even full-on infighting about what to do, and you could make all kinds of cool outcomes.
Do keep in mind just because a world or even whole star systems are now independent from the Imperium doesn't mean the majority of the peoples of those places are free, the oppression from the aristocracy or human dynastys that have ruled over the masses for thousands of years with the Imperium never doing anything about them and their abuses towards the citizenry. So when a planet is deciding to whom they'll allie with 11 out of 12 times it's likely only an elite few or an oligarchy or despot dictators deciding this not the masses, nothing really democratic whether directly or indirectly (i.e. republics) about it.
@@navilluscire2567 dawn of war /battlefleet gothic {SW Battlefront in warhammer}
@@navilluscire2567,
If by an elite few you mean hundreds of nobles trying to figure out how not to upset tens of thousands of lesser ones then yes, and those aren't even hive world numbers. No man rules alone, democracy or not. Even despot dictators will have to answer to someone, albeit informally. Plenty of room for debate and infighting.
I think the Imperium falling is the only thing you could do to meaningfully impact the setting. I felt like the galaxy being torn in half never really felt very impactful. Sure it sounds like stuff changed but if you look at it it's just the status quo continuing. The Imperium is in peril, everyone else is bad blah blah. Nothing meaningfully changed. I ended up doing my own head cannon for 40k cause I thought the Imperium shattering was the only thing that really needed to happen in 40k. You could really have different cultures, different factions etc sprout up instead of the boring dystopia the Imperium is now. At least that is how I feel.
This is how the Roman Empire went down. Poor Robobo is basically managing Byzantium at this point.
Damn, that's actually a great historical call-back and kind of true..
I can also see a splintered Imperium leading to more xenos conflicts as well. Say for example, that a Necron dynasty decides to accept the vassalage or tributary status of a very small "successor state", and said small state gets raided by the Dark Eldar. The Necrons aren't going to just take that sitting down, they're going to try and do a small recreation of the War in Heaven on Comorragh's doorsteps. Sure it most likely doesn't lead to the Dark Eldar being wiped out, but it does create a cool conflict between two armies that at the very least I haven't seen fight often in the lore, and it perhaps has a small lasting side effect like the Dark Eldar avoiding that subsector for a century or so because they don't want to provoke a repeat of that episode.
See this is why the Imperium being as all encompassing as it is both in universe and with it being the clear favorite of GW is making the 40k universe as a whole far worse than its other Warhammer setting counterparts in Fantasy and Age of Sigmar. In those settings, races and factions regularly work together and fight each other for a plethora of reasons other than "hyper racism".
I feel like this is the way things should have gone with the Horus Hersey instead of splitting the legions/empire into two groups.
There should have been 3 sides at the end of it.
Loyalists: Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Iron hands, Raven Guard, Space Wolfs
Chaos: Sons of Horus/Black Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children
Independents/Renegades: Iron Warriors, White Scars, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Dark Angels, Blood Angels.
It would have allowed for more moral shades of grey without having to turn everything grimderp to make sure there's no good guys. For example, independant Blood Angels got kicked out of the imperium because the red thirst and now hold their own parts of the galaxy. They're not bad to live in like chaos occupied space, and probably slightly better off than imperial space, but sometimes their benevolent rulers go insane and think a whole room full of people are all named Horus. Also everyone has to pay a blood tithe. That way its not good, not bad, but somewhere in between.
That sounds like a good idea, but in my opinion the Alpha Legion should stay as the fake chaos group, as that's what makes them so Endearing
Agreed, I think alot of legions and their characters, including Primarchs would've been SO MUCH better written by just being independents or dissenters from the Imperium but STILL hated Chaos.
@@navilluscire2567 the problem with that is they were forced into the eye of terror during the great scouring
Guileman should just kill the Emperor and get Cawl to punt Holy Terra into intergalactic space using the teleporter tech Mars stole during the War of the Beast.
Operation: Yeet Terra?
Or in High Gothic: Yeetus Throneworld Deletus?
Nice plan, but what about the sun?
@@mrsniffles5417 what ABOUT the sun?
@@andrewnewell1142 Ahriman detected.
The sun provides warmth and light which are quite helpful, plus there's the sentimental value, it'd be a shame to leave it behind.
Something else about the lack of Mechanicus involvement with the Imperium, would mean the people don't have to worry about triggering the Mechanicus, ESPECIALLY if they're the enemy now. No more tech heresy restrictions.
EDIT: And once again I advise everyone else to finish watching the video before making a comment. I did it again.
Yeah, he mentioned it but still I agree. Would be interesting to hear about factions that secretly had their own SUPER heretical R&D departments for centuries but could never truly bring many of their technological ambitions to the forefront for fear of zealous purging by the Mechnicus and the Imperium's wrath. But with both no longer able to exercise true force against them in any reasonable timeframe these human factions with their advanced technology could comfortably carve out their own unique niches throughout the fractious galaxy.
I would like something where the Lion comes back, says "Fuck that" to Primaris and establishes a section of the Imperium that focuses more on "First Born" (superior) Space Marines and the knightly culture that revolves around the Rock.
Space Bretonnia, if you will.
If becomes space britonia then the imperium will suck worse than it already does.
*by Sigmar..... no!*
@@Sir_Bucket quickly get the comisar and report this
No, I will find a way to revive Sanguinius and Corvus before you do that so that way space Britonia is limited to a 4th of Imperial Nillius
@@manjoring5944 There is no need for that.
I think this could happen just via saying parts of the imperium are splitting off. Sectors turning traitor (not chaos) would totally make sense in the Imperium Nihilus. I think we can have both. The Imperium kinda losing bits and pieces makes sense, then imperium stuff can stay as is and other bits like you said can remain.
I feel like having guilliman hold terra and be a sorta “official” imperium while half the empire fractures so we can still use the nice imperial asthetuc.
I love this idea purely because of the possibility of Dark Angels and Space Wolves taking their feud to the next level, which of course would be followed by the furries getting annihilated. Congrats on the 40k my man, I’m very happy I stumbled upon your channel and I’m happy I can support you!
Honestly even as an imperium fan I love this idea, the idea of dozens of mini imperium's allow for all different kinds of imperium ranging from truly dark and horrible to far more benevolent, not to mention the idea of Mini-imperiums allying themselves with different Xeno factions could be fun. Maybe the Blood Ravens could finally admit their true chapter master is Trazyn and we could get a whole faction of Digganobz who fight alongside orks because fuck it it sounds cool.
Very interesting idea though personally I think there’s another rather simple reason that could give way to the Imperium’s fracturing: the death of the Emperor.
Yes, he’s already dead as he’s a corpse on a throne but at least there’s something there for people to worship. So, what if one day all that psychic energy being funnelled into the Emperor by the sacrificed psykers simply became too much and the Emperor’s corpse burnt up/disintegrated? Nobody on the throne, nobody to unite the Imperium any more. Are we really to believe that none of the Primarchs would attempt to lay claim to the throne as his heir? They’re all brothers so have it go full breakup akin to what happened with Alexander’s generals following his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire in that sense, with differing primarchs vying to be the next Emperor.
Heck, want to go really out there with this? I’m hearing lots of chatter that the Emperor’s Children will be given their own range in 10th edition so why not tie this in to this clash for power?
Have Fulgrim come back full snake-daemon form but claiming that his corruption should not outweigh his claim as the Emperor’s true heir. After all the ECs were the first chapter to wear the aquila and it’s pretty much in their name so why not work with that as a reason to bring them back into the setting in a big way?
I'd pay good thrones to see that play out!
@Morgan Allen
I disagree with this.
One just because the Imperium itself as any sort of coherent entity is gone doesn't mean humanity is doomed to extinction, atleast not ANY time soon, there's literally WAY too many humans for that to ever be a problem. What it will mean is that humans will no longer be the dominant force in the galaxy which isn't a bad thing.
Also humans can and do have objectively better lives outside the Imperium whether thats non Imperium human civilizations. (yes they still exist even as of now its a HUGE galaxy) Or the Imperium worlds that have joined the t'au, their standards of living usally go up if only by a little.
It should also be noted that the black ships mostly cull psykers wherever they go only taking the max number alive required to meet some quotas including those sacrificed to the Emperor, without the larger galaxy to draw from all that would change is that the black ships would just have to source pyskers closer to home, Terra or else risk raids into potentially unfriendly territory. Also as of the Great Rift's opening aren't pyskers becoming more and more common anyway? So the Astronomicons going no where anytime soon.
And while I agree that the cargo cult mentality is in general going to be hard for many humans to break away from in particular I don't think it's impossible for many worlds to do so, many humans while not understanding the tech around them probably aren't all that zealous about preventing others from figuring some stuff out, especially if such insights end up benefiting them more. (safer working conditions, more efficiency, new innovations)
And there'd very much would be a Byzantine facimially in this scenario, literally Guillimen's Ultramar is the SPACE Byzantine empire! And then there's the possibility of several sectors coming together to form their own empires or interstellar states ala the various rising kingdoms of post Rome Western Europe.
The fact is the Imperium falling won't be the death knell for humanity, only the final fall of a corrupt, repressive, religious, dogmatic empire. Many humans can and will do better than that, the bars that low. And no, not all xenos are horrible, some are actually quite reasonable when your not trying to genocide them.
Why is Ultramar not fair to use let alone other potential post Imperium human successor states? What exactly constitutes as ""fair"" in your eyes? And yes, baring some warp disruptions other human civilizations including Ultramar benefits from the use of the astronomican, what of it?
As for the black ships and feeding the Emperor sacrifices of psykers could not as powerful as he is now thanks to that boost he got the Great Rift happening just go without or even not needing nearly as many sacrifices, hell even back before all this it seemed hilariously small that apparently all it took was a thousand or so pyskers a day to support a galaxy spanning psychic entity like the Emperor, you'd think that number would be much higher. As for Terra, sure some distributions in supply may occur but I never got the impression that even Terra as overly industrialized and dependent it was on outside supplies needed the whole galaxy's worth of planets to support it, more like maybe a few sectors worth of shipments to maintain daily, vital operations with everything else basically being excess luxury tributes from the rest of the Imperium's planets.
And even if it did pose a serious problem, *I say good,* that might actually motivate the custodes and the sisters of silence to be more proactive in the setting not to mention the other institutions based on Terra like the Ecclesiarchy, the Munitorum, the arbites and etc., *new challenges means new story opportunities.*
As for different groups of humans developing their own ways of navigating the warp should be without the astronomicon you do know that it's not strictly necessary to warp travel, only that it provides a convenient waypoint for navigation, but doesn't make it impossible without it. Sure many of them would be lost utterly without such but many more would adapt, after all necessity is the mother of invention.
If anything this is an opportunity for these successor groups to find their own unique ways if navigating the warp, sure they'd probably all be objectively inferior to the astronomicons power but not unviable. Just ask the t'au, they have managed quite well without the astronomicon (if we assume their psychic allies that yes, do exist cannot detect or use it) or even proper gellar fields so I don't see why some of the luckier and more inventive groups of humans couldn't come up with a number of makeshift solutions.
True, nothing is guaranteed, I just DON'T see it nearly as hopeless as you, that said you seem pretty certain about things yourself. And while yes the Emperor suddenly dying would be catastrophic I agree, but I don't think that'll be THE end of humanity, only the beginning of another bloody chapter, the start of revolutions, the shifting of paradigms.
Also not all advanced technology needs AI, you can have alot of progression without ever once messing with AI development, so there's apple room for various human civilizations to innovate on or even reinvent things long lost. Heck nothing says they can't still use servitors for their main robotic like labor! (as messed up that is)
interesting idea im a bit divided on it but if it were to happen i think that guilliman could make peace with the tau or even become allies. but it aint happenin this is GW were talking about.but maybe the dark imperium could get smashed so now a whole buffet of planets are up for grabs (not very good planets but planets none the less)
eldari girlfriends
I dont think the whole imperium should fall but I do think it would be neat having factions break off and divide over things like, primaris marines, girlymans reforms, ad mech wanting autonomy etc etc think there are pleanty of internal conflicts that could be dialed up without really removing THE imperium
That's just functionally the same as THE Imperium falling apart but for some reason it officially collapsing gets your space underwear in a twist. And even then the Imperium would still be around or atleast the faction with the most legitimacy to the claim as a continuation of that state being whomever controls Terra and the immediate neighboring sectors surrounding it.
What your suggestion here is something I loved about old Star Wars legends. In legends when the empire fell it broke up into several different petty Kingdoms and dictatorships doing something like that with the impirium coul give you greate options for home brew.
I love how Mechanicus music started playing once you mentioned that Mankind should still survive.
It just felt like “Yeah. You know these guys are gonna go apeshit on the planets of the now former imperium the moment they realize they don’t need to pretend the Emperor and Omnissiah are the same thing anymore.”
Returning to this video I hit upon a wonderfully grimdark idea
You know how the Emperor is a fractured mind and is actively straining to get a coherent sentence out to one of his only active loyalist sons? You know how Cawl cautioned what got off the throne might not be what sat on it?
What if the Emperor does come back but he's in pieces and all of them have their own visions of how to fix things, the imperium is loyal to the Emperor but which one?
Can you imagine how fucking cool it could be if the Imperium descended into a civil war because its leader has dementia and his scattered fragments are giving contradictory orders, increasingly losing his mind as he sees the mess he's making but unable to stop it?
It would be the grim-est of dark and you could still have humanity able to co-ordinate on some important things like keeping out chaos or tyranids, things the fragments of the Big E's soul would agree are more important than whether or not Humanity needs to be saved by subjugating the mechanicus, making an alliance with Ynnead or destroying the tau before its too late
You know the moment that GW did this, they'd just MAGIC the emperor back to being a living man just so they can do the great crusade 2
Then they'd fart out, like, 30+ books covering that crusade and squeeze all the hype they can out of the Emperor returning (and then they'd use "The Emperor has returned!" as a selling point for over a decade lol)
@@MEXUS. Jeez we should apply to be GW salesmen we'd earn them so much money. And ourselves so much money
@@MEXUS. how good is the horus heresy book overall? There's so many books. I thought one piece was plenty or hajimi ippo was alot.
I mean, tbf if they're going to bring the Emperor back, this would probably be a good way to do it imo. Like, the emperor finally wakes up, but JUST too late to save the Imperium.
It's amazing that the Imperium finally collapsing would create so many interesting story opportunities along with finally giving every other faction a proper chance to shine for once.
"you did it Horus, you defeated me. You truly are the Warhammer 40k." ~ Big E
The inter-Imperial conflicts make a bit more sense if you assume they're ALREADY acting as if they're their own squabbling states. Because the Imperium is in such decline, its constituent parts do whatever they like, with only occasional pushback. Not to mention the fights that happen purely because of miscommunication, petty grudges, or a bureaucratic error.
I do agree it would be pretty sweet if the Imperium were to fragment into many pieces. But I kind of like the part of the (attempted) satire of fascism that 40K is based on, that says the constant conflict is a result of self-inflicted wounds by a bloated, crumbling authoritarian state.
Still, having more human civilizations than just the one would be pretty nice.
I can totally see this happening. Especially when more Primarchs come back again. It would be the fractured Holy Roman Empire where everybody hates eachother but work together when there is a common enemy like Abbadon comming around with "RandomNumber" Black Crusade. Tau would rise, the Eldar wouldn´t care, Orcs would approve. The Human Realm would decay in Pre-Great Crusade form and then: The Emperor would finally stand up and clap some cheeks again only to get caught in a Masterball by Trazyn.
I am a die-hard imperial but I can easily see the appeal in this, honestly if I ran the company i'd have this set up in parallel to draw a whole lot of interest so the actual main timeline can progress meaningfully and resolve and we can have a significantly more diverse and interesting set for this alternate one where the imperium fell
Edit: Also I realised the massive missed opportunity when the Cicatrix maledictum was formed that time went at different speeds all over the place and the Astronomicon was knocked out, that right there could have been the fracturing event and while Gulliman was able to get Segmentum Solar back in order he wasn't able to get much more than that and Ultramar into barely-working shape
I love the idea of sub-Guard factions associated with each Xenos faction. We’ve already got Chaos Cultists & Genestealer Cults, but what about Harlequin Masqueraders? Or Shields of the Greater Good? Or the We-WAAAGH? Just the idea of a WAAAGH with random humans and a single Tau trying real hard is adorable
Actually that's a fantastic narrative idea elf boy. It would open up a lot of better smaller stories then "and then the main force arrived to save the day."
Also thanks for continuing to mention repeatedly that the imperial guard should have more then just cadians. I promise me and my Valhalla army will not bombard you with basilisks and conscripts in that order only after we give you a 5 min head start.
IMO the easiest way to shatter the empire is to have another Primarch show up. Have Chagatai show up and be like “hey I’ve been active and conscious for 10k years and I’ve gone through an arch and undergone some serious character development. Turns out the big E was completely wrong and everything we fought for needs to be demolished”. Make some conflict between Robute waking up after 10k years and trying to fix everything back to the way it was and someone else who’s trying to move on from the past. Meanwhile all the smaller factions in the middle now have 2 sides to choose from, or 2 sides to play off each other while they try to do their own thing.
The game I am running is literally what you described, and we are having way more fun than going with the cannon fluff
I remember hearing a bit of lore about Vulkan creating a machine that destroys Terra if the Golden Throne ever completely fails. I think this would make a very cool "End Times" for 40K, without the weirdness that was the fantasy End Times, as it's just the end of the Imperium, and not the whole setting. It would also be excellently grimdark for the protagonist faction to lose, and by its own hand too. Then all of the stuff you talk about here can happen!
A watcher in the rain gives insight into how scribes could play a big part in the downfall
Honestly, as a Necron player, some of my favorite lore bits are Necron lords interacting with the other people of the universe. Having the imperium fall could open so many amazing doors.
Agreed, I just want necrons to do something relevant, rather than being related to the closet.
Mankind Divided being more Chaotic than Chaos Undivided would be just the icing on the Grimdark/Grimdank cake
You are basically describing Warhammer 50k: the shape of the nightmare to come, a pretty good fanfic that explain what would happen in the 10 000 years following the end of the imperium
It could be like the fall of the roman empire, with the dark eldar suddenly attacking terra itself and while they probably wouldn't do much more than destroy a few things and kidnap a few million people it could convince the rest of the imperium that it's too weak to protect them and it's better to trust their local rulers
I actually have a pretty similar pet "what if?" timeline I came up with about 2-3 years ago. It hinged on the Lion returning (called that) just increasing tensions between the High Lords and Guilliman, which somehow leads to another coup attempt against the king of blueberries which leads to the entire realm of Ultramar seceding with the Ultramarines and some successors to back them up. And the rest proceeds from there
I was here, and i told you i subscribed because i wanted to see you get 40k subscribers. I acomplished my mission, but i intend to stay because i'm glad to be part of the OG 40k subs and because your lore content is awesome. You deserve it man.
I’d like to imagine the Sisters of Battle, Astra millitarum, and custodians would go together as the main imperium, and the marines and mechanicus would split off as their own factions
Honestly I would like to see planets lost during the dark age to appear and have their own societies and religion. Like a sect of Christianity survived and formed a theocracy that actually has an advantage over chaos and regularly exorcises them back into the warp or maybe a new version of the Imperium but running on a democracy in name only and along with other societies showing what millennia without any contact with the Imperium would produce.
I agree. The fact that all races are homogeneous in 40k makes the world feel much more narrow and limited than classic, when it should feel more deep and expansive, breaking up the homogeneous factions into more distinct ones would make a huge difference
That Rise of Nations music always hits a soft part in my heart. It makes me remember my childhood and how I grew up loving that game❤️
I have watched your video since 2k and I gotta say ,you are the channel I go to for 40k content , I love your humor and your way of explaining the universe. having been in the hobby for 6 years,you are my favorite 40k channel yet
GW with the Imperium is like the Government telling you Weed is bad so its illegal, but secretly sells Weed.
Or those cigarette boxes with pictures of corroded lungs on them.
More reasons for this are one, with the Imperium broken down into more digestible chunks some of the writers could fully map out a few of the states. And two it would allow for new alien races to have their time to shine.
The Imperium splintering would be an interesting and really cool event. It could lead to so many cool stories and perhaps actual technological improvements in some parts. Plus stories of how The Emperor just gives up living and because a warp God would be cool also. Or Gilliman going on. crusade to bring humanity back under one banner. Primarchs returning would be cool too
I wholeheartedly agree and have wanted this for ages. Imagine a successor human state that believes in the concepts of democracy, technological advancement, enlightenment, and human rights coming out of this mess. They get the disadvantage of the naivity of not forseeing Tzeentch abusing their development, but they get really cool tech to counter it, and their human rights and education mean that fewer people even want to turn to chaos in the first place.
The disadvantage with this is that you get a faction perhaps a little too similar to the Tau, but damn if it wouldn't be a really cool contrast to the grimdark blob of intellectual and moral regression that is the imperium. Would have a hell of an appeal for backwater planet #509437 over a random post-imperial warlord chapter of space marines that want to work a quarter of the population to death to get a 10% increase in industrial production.
See, I love the Imperium *too much to accept it's death* .....also would really fucking suck to see my favorite Major Faction be killed not even 3 years after I initially became aware of Warhammer and right as I am getting into the TableTop Games.
Yeah, you're reasoning is great......but, if the Imperiums death sets up a 2nd and far more desperate Great Crusade from Segmentum Solar and potentially a 14th Black Crusade....THAT would be interesting. Would be absolutely awesome to see The Emperor return and try to salvage the patheticly rotting&very crispy corpse of his once Great-ish Space Empire without him becoming a Space-Cripple again.
The possibilities if this is done good are amazing.....but the possibilities if it's handled shittily could very easily be the actual "End Times" for Warhammer 40k......GW has to approve this extremely carefully.
Congratulations, you somehow convinced a Diehard Imperium Fanboy into thinking the Imperiums demise can actually be good for the Imperium somehow.....
See, that brings up the issue of: "Why?"
If you split the Imperium again only to have him come back and unite everything again, what's the point? You just have pre-heresy Imperium. Which makes everything else pointless. Him dying? Irrelevant, he's back and he's better than ever now. The struggle of humanity fighting seemingly unwinnable odds? Well now you have the Emps, don't need to worry since you're probably gonna win. The Horus Heresy? Doesn't matter, he's gonna be resurrected anyway. The Imperium falling apart to create new more interesting factions? Who cares, they're all back and subjugated to do whatever he wants. List goes on.
I would rather see dead factions only in the lore to appear.
A men of iron remnant would deffinetly make the imperium shit itself
Not death, fracturing. Like with Rome, the empire never ended, it just sort of disappeared one day. But before that it fractured into different states. Like let's say the imperium gave up on half the galaxy because of a massive rift. You still have the imperium and they are focused on fixing things. Then you have the human states who have lost the emperor's light on the opposite side. It keeps the imperium but allows for more stuff to happen
the problem with Big E coming back is that he's so juiced up he is a legitimate match for a chaos god (at least at the time when his whole plan was to starve them out) except he's also planted directly in the physical realm.
Big E by himself should be able to kill legitimately anything in the setting, there's no way to points balance that - the only reason he even lost to horus is because he couldn't bear to hurt his own son until he finally realized he couldn't save him.
@@thefatbob3710 one lost planet of age of tech humans pre a.i. rebellion rediscover the tech and were invaded. then repulse and go after them.
You make a good point, I do think they have a "tell, don't show" problem.
I'd like to see this happen. It'd be really funny if the mechanics started working with the Iron Hands or something lol. But seriously, it would be awesome to see humans clash in a game that's not Horus Heresy.
it's not a matter of how, but when. Guilliman only delays the inevitable.
In fact Guilliman can't do much with Imperium rather than continue the status quo. He never deal with this monstrosity of the Empire in his life. He can normally rule Ultramar because it's 500 planets and it's easy especially easy when your Space Marines are not just warriors but high-tier politicians and managers. So he just trying to hold the decomposing of Imperium as long as he can. Although I think Robute knows that sooner or later this empire will fall.
I genuinely support this idea. That being said, since it's something that would advance the setting in a meaningful way, that's never going to happen.
Bro played gwyns theme and thought we wouldn’t notice
If the Imperium were to completely collapse and fracture into different factions, they should have it be replaced by Orks who are trying to replicate the former Imperium
I wholeheartedly agree with the points you made, just saying "yeah things are terrible and gonna get worse super soon" without meaningfully changing the setting for decades before changing it slightly so the dominant power is even more dominant really makes it hard to engage with the series lore wise
As someone that has never played 40k and just think the setting is neat, this would be dope
Before I get on with my lore sperging,
I just like to say fucking congratulations man.
Been following you since possibly early on in the big popularity wave, and this is one of the few channels that I legitimately look forward to the next time it's going to upload.
Anyway yes Space Marine feudalism 100% please and thank you
The Elclesiarcy 1000 years into this scenario when a important shrine world is lost(maybe terrain itself). "The leviton devinitnouticas may teach peace, but when the most holy are taken. It is every man's duty to claim it. A crusade is called."
I'd be about it. Especially if they put out the lore in RPG form. Space Dark Ages, a whole galaxy of dangerous, neat stuff, most of which you can profitably shoot.
The Horus heresy should've been a 3-way war with guilliman having his own side on ultramar
Like Gulliman thinks the Imperium fell and creates Imperium 2, but then the Real Imperium takes this as treason and declares exterminatus or crusade. So then Gulliman has to reluctantly fight against the Zealots for the Survival of Ultramar.
As a Guard player who has always liked My Guys, and felt like the Imperium is a little stultifying for creativity, I am wholly in favor of the proposed development. Let it burn, and a thousand new ideas rise from the ashes.
If it's new ideas you want, you can alwas just say that your guard regiment is from a backwaterplanet with heretical new things.
@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat I already do- like I said, I play the game as it is. But there are lots of unique ideas that can't exist in a galaxy properly dominated by the Imperium. There's room for a lot of creativity as is, but there would be room for more in a galaxy with greater political diversity.
@@LollipopKnight2
But the Imperium already doesn't care what political systems planetary governments subscribe to already? All they care about is that the tithe comes in time and that local cults worship the Emperor in some way or another (and that isn't just fanon either, the Dark Heresy RPG mentions that missionaries generally only, to put it bluntly, point at a culture's chief god, or the central deity of a local pantheon, and say "See that? That's actually the Emperor. See all the other gods? They are actually Saints/Primarchs." and so forth. The conversion process isn't really that invasive.). They don't care if a planetary government is a monarchy, republic, caste-based, or what have you.
Also, the Imperial Guard doesn't really care about bringing unique wargear to the table either. On the lower end, the Harakoni Warhawks, for example, have remote-controlled mortars, or the Tanith First which have cloaks that adapt their camouflage to their environment, and on the weirder end you got stuff like the Arkan Confederates which have units of so-called "Steamblood Zouaves" which wear Power Armor armed with buzzsaws and Heavy Stubbers. So yeah, as long as the planet can actually logistically support fancy equipment, and and they can fit it into their combat doctrine, Imperial High Command would just shrug and say "You do you.".
The Imperium imposes more constraints than you think.
First, the tithe itself is ruinous in the vast majority of circumstances, and leads to abusive work practices. There's a reason that the Imperium is continuously putting down revolts, and is considered the bloodiest, most brutal regime imaginable. There are exceptions, such as the worlds of Ultramar, but they are meant to be staggeringly rare.
Second, worship of the Emperor is still mandatory. Adherence to other belief systems can, at best, take a secondary role in society.
Third, working with the Imperium requires openness to Imperial institutions. Worshipful admiration of Space Marines, acceptance of the Mechanicus's instruction concerning tech-heresy, cooperation with the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition are all mandatory, or else your homebrew planet is on the list for a virus bombing.
Fourth, as members of the Imperium, human planets can have no overt diplomatic relations with any xenos warmer than 'we can't kill you YET'. That cuts out all the overt diplomatic options between xenocide and full alliances. That seriously limits the sorts of interstellar politics possible. There is still the option for covert actions, and outright treachery, but, again, that's a virus bombing.
There's ways to work around all of these, and even within the explicit lines, there's still a lot of options, but they are constraints, and some interesting stuff could be had beyond them.
@@LollipopKnight2 Just say your homebrew planet was misfiled as "deadworld", but they actually thrived and they are isolated enough to have no restraines.
Maybe the mechanicum got off-planet after the recourse flow stopped.
Maybe a revolt and reformation was succesful without an imperium knowing/caring they exist.
Or simply enough time has pasted that nobody remembers the old ways.
It was mentioned multiple times that it's not unusual to rediscover planets who got lost in the bureaucracy, it wouldn't be that farfeched.
The setting allows for much variation, look f.ex. at Luetin09s fanwork.
And if you're really all on the fragmented imperium idea, how about a small system that was thought to be dead/under xenos control who think they're the last of the imperium after their warpengines all broke and are completely isolated and doing all that goof stuff talked about in the video.
You don't need widespread revolts and cataclysms.
All you need the astronomican to lose just a tad bit of power and for a bunch of select warpstorm to make communication difficult.
Give it a century and the Imperium will have fragmented in regional governments. Not because of greed or revolts, but by pure pragmatism.
Some areas, without external support, will fall and be overwhelmed, while others will see their vast resources, now not sent to the far corners of the galaxy, propel them to new heights.
Sector governos are already de facto sole rulers of their domains and only pay lip service to the imperium at large they don't need much of a push to forget about far away people they can't reach or call and focus on protecting their sectors.
Allthough, the more i listen to your scenario:
-people not wanting to have anything to do with the previous big state
-people fighting over who's the true her to the previous big state
-a cult of technocrats more powerful than other factions that works with all other factions and moves behind the scenes
My guy, this is just Battletech
absolutely agree this would open up so may new choices for players and lore
11:08 mfw the Gue'la hit me with that dollar store Bolter round
Mfw a blue alien offers me a proper meal
This is really cool. Been here since 20k, and love your fresh takes on things. Keep going, and I can't wait for a potential Halo Covenant in 40k part 2
You earned the 40k, boss! Watching your content while getting into the game has definitely made for a good time so far, so here’s to more!
The best part about this is that all these lesser states actually become stronger than the sums of their parts within the Imperium. Because the weight of Imperial Bureaucracy is gone, they can concentrate all their resources on their own stuff, work out how to work things out in a more efficient manner.
Each Imperium player would be a Nation of themselves, Groups of Imperium Players in each store or play area could band together or draw the line between each other as they wished. This entire idea would actually EMBRACE the advances of 3D printing, because then players could design their own Imperial Guard Armies (with maybe instead of Lasguns maybe instead they have Mag Rifles, Instead of Space HRE Nobles you have Napoleonic Republicism IG, etc etc) Space Marine Power Marks, Xeno differences. It'd open up the door to a return to form, of True "Your Dudes". If GW invested heavily in getting a bunch of 3d Printers primed and ready, they could take custom orders from customers, it'd be a great move imho.
But we both know that part won't happen.
That would actually make a good counterpoint to the immediate reaction of 'Now humanity is so doomed why should we care?' Have your book detailing the fall of the imperium point out that in a lot of places, humanity gets significantly stronger locally. (The interesting exception being Ultramar.) The entire Badab War became the mess it was because Imperial inefficency became too much and a local space marine chapter master said 'screw it'... and suddenly the sector went from 'barely holding on' to 'the most well protected area in the galaxy short of Terra' because all those resources were being used locally, without being subject to 200 layers of graft.
The thing is, I don't like 3D printed models, I find them to look worse than normal ones. I'd like to see GW make models with a focus on kitbashing in this scenario.
@@henryfleischer404 Skill Issue. Begging to big brother GW will only beggar you.
@@Jsay18 How is nobody having a good enough printer a skill issue? And anyway, I haven't bought anything from GW in ages, although I still play WH40K (and lots of Kill Team), I mostly put together Gunpla, because I don't like painting much, and GW's prices are too high. I'm planning on building a "titan" that's actually a heavily modified PG Zaku II.
It would also make the return of a primarch far more compelling. They set out to save the imperium only to find it fragmented and a shell of its former self. Then they could struggle to agree on how best to rebuild it.
Ok, but this is legitimately a good idea. Which is why it'll never happen, thanks GM.
Dark imperium may be the source for that bit about space marines ruling planets. In a scene guilliman specifically outlines a plan where most of the realm of ultramar had their planetary governments replaced with space marine rule.
Thanks for making content man 👍🏻 My buddies and I love playing GW games, having a few drinks, and then putting your videos on and laughing our asses off
Problem is that all dangers have been so hyped up that there is no way a scater empire would endure for a week, like look at octarius
Hyped up, but consistantly shown to be very much beatable. If anything with it collapsing many worlds and whole sectors could more readily respond to threats not having to wait for the painfully slow bureaucracy of the Imperium to catch up. Plus without the oversight of the Imperium and the Mechanicus many planets and even systems could pull their resources together and start rapidly develop their technology and especially weapons research so as to better defend themselves since they can no longer rely on a larger state for marginal project. Plus there's always mutual defensive alliances between successor factions to help cover each other's flanks against common threats.
Eh, no. They'd deal with it better. Shorter supply lines, less area to protect and shorter bureaucracy lines.