Drawing Copper Bullet Jackets: Machined Drawing Dies
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- In the previous 9-part series, we made the two-stage die that blanked and cupped the copper strip. This video covers the two drawing dies made to progressively draw the cups down to final jacket size of 0.352. Really pleased with the results - although, for sure, room for improvement for the next set of dies! 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH
I just want you to know that this whole series on the punch and drawing dies is amazing. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into producing these videos.
I'm a computer scientist and this makes me want to get into machining lol
Grind a .001 to .002 taper x 1.000 in long on the end of the punch ,that will release the product much easier.
It's just amazing watching something I know was once a flat piece of copper turn into such beautiful shiny cups. Another great video, sir.
I don't know what would be more fun, the drawing the cups or the making of the tools to do it with.
There is some confusion over Silver Solder, the 1-5% that melts at 200°F is a soft solder and should really be refered to as silver bearing solder. The Silver Solder I use is 45% Silver.
You should look into getting a punch grinder, they are just a few hundred dollars on ebay. What they will do is turn your surface grinder into a little cylindrical grinder. Word of warning they are not proper centerless grinders, so you will need to leave section of the untreated shank to be held in the rollers.
When you can do it on your 1 ton arbor press you can probably easily make a multi-stage air cylinder with enough force to do it as well (and much faster and easier). Maybe a 3 stage air cylinder.
A 3 stage air cylinder with 100 mm internal diameter at 8 bar air pressure will give a theoretical 18849 Newton = 1922 kg of force.
John NYCCNC I don't know about brands, I have just made my own cylinder on the lathe from a solid aluminium round bar (probably better to use a thick walled pipe though so you don't have to remove that much material) and then som o-rings cut and glued to size for seals on the piston and seal holes. It was for a power drawbar on my mill.
Thanks so much for sharing your learning experiences with us. I am very interested in this project as I may try it myself. I have to ask, do the jackets come out of the die the same out side diameter as the inside of the die or is there a little difference.
Thanks again and looking forward to the next video.
You could totally use this system to make cartridge cases. You'd need a stronger press, ideally, and a lathe system to make extractor grooves and the primer pocket, but you could do it. You could actually do the necking with a regular reloading press, just draw out a straight walled blank of the rough dimensions, put the extractor groove and primer pocket in, and neck and size it in a regular reloading press. Seriously.
Beautiful result. Thoroughly enjoying this series :)
great vids I tried making this same ting but I just don't have the right tools.
I tryed using a punch inside a punch and a stepped die so I could feed in a flat piece of cupper and get out a jacket. it worked about 1 time and 10.
now im back to plain base cast bullets.
Sort of I used a big drill press like a wood lathe on its end and turned the parts freehand with a selection of cutters made from files. For stock I used a 1" bolt then set a 1/2" inside of it. Then a 1/4" bolt inside of it. It's out in my reloading stuff some place if I can find it I'll post a video and send you the link.
I think that the blank may be slightly workhardening go through the first die and then distorting in the second. Try heating between draws.
Gerald.
Nice work, you've come a long way +NYC CNC. And even better you have spotted the short falls you've had. Nice job, from a Journeyman Mould Maker of 38 years in his trade...
If you fit the punch into the press ram and hold the die down you can force the shell through then insert a v plate underneath the lift the punch and separate the shell without messing around with grips etc. It is almost impossible to draw such a long shell without some irregularity at the open end. Spent forty five years making draw dies and forming tools in the jewellery trade.
So glad the tips on annealing and work hardening worked for you! Love the series, keep 'em coming. :)
pretty cool stuff sir :-)
I was just thinking (if you havnt tried it already of course) is to put a 45 degree taper on the working end of the first drawing punch, making the tip the same diameter as the working end of the second drawing punch, which should help keep the cup centralized a little more accurately in your second drawing die :-)
Looking ur at the effort and knowledge shared by u, I believe u can easily make 9×19mm cartridge punch and dies...
I have a savage 99 303. The cartridges I found but I need to make own primers. Are you going to sell these as a set
Hi there Good job i love this but i can make something you get evry secand one of that
Cool video, have you tried to make DIY cartridge cases? That would be vety neet to see if home rolled cases are [pssible
Much appreciation for your videos brother. I never even considered doing something like this tell now. Lots of information and very well explained. Im looking forward to your future videos.
Anything on making actual shell casings with primer pocket like 45colt?
Hello, may I ask how thick is the copper tape used for punching bullet casings? If it is too thin, how to process the bottom edge of the tail?
Nice Job! I have never done that before. I learn a lot from your channel.
What is the thickness, and is it the same all around the jacket.
Very nice results! :)
Thank you so much this has been very helpful!
Another awesome NYC CNC video!
Any chance you could automate the copper drawing process with your hydraulic hole punch, including a stripper to remove the cups from the punch?
Like one of the other comments, as I was watching your video I was wondering about reforming the copper by spinning it. It's a fairly common process for aluminum. Without using my Google brain, I'd guess that copper work hardens too readily to be radically reformed without annealing, But imagine a blanking die that punched a round coin with a small center hole. The hole is fitted over a stem in a custom shaped live center mandrel in the tail stock of a CNC lathe. The spindle could have a tool with a machined divot with a center hole to accept the tail stock stem, to form the bullet nose when the two are pressed together. Instead of a cutting tool. there could be a small bearing to spin form the spinning copper disk against the tail stock mandrel. The CNC could do the forming in several passes. A torch on the back side could heat the copper to anneal it as it was forming if needed. Still seems like a lot of work.
My primary interest in homemade copper jackets would be a die set that uses 22 LR brass as the jackets for .223 plinking bullets. There are commercial die sets for reloaders. I've been tempted to buy a set, but they're about $600. I could buy a lot of .223 bullets for that, so the payback would be long.
I cast a lot of lead bullets. I've spent way too long thinking of an automated machine that would plate copper from a piece of copper pipe onto a lead bullet core. I'd cast the lead bullet cores in custom undersized molds. Commercial plated pistol bullets have only a few thousandths of copper plating and are only good for about 1500 fps. I'd want to be able to plate rifle bullets with much thicker jackets, but that's a lot of electrical power and a lot of time.
My other cast bullet research project is automating a powder coating line for my cast pistol bullets in lieu of messy and ugly bullet lube. Others have reported good results shooting powder coated bullets - no leading in the bore and recovered bullets have retained their powder coating. Powder coat is tough stuff! My reloads would look a lot better with black powder coating instead of bare lead, and I wouldn't get messy bullet lube on my fingers when reloading or handling the ammo at the range.
If you want to harden aluminum book salt (sodium chloride) at 525°C and dunk the aluminium in it for 30 mins.
Same works for copper though you need to be hotter... Or you could just rely on the work hardening. Anneal after the initial souage into cup form then let the next two or three steps work harden it again to make your jacket more effective.
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Any safe website that sells this?
After finishing this I tried to post a comment and You Tube went Bit hell. I think that's behind me, GOOD stuff here John! One comment copper can air cool just like steel when tempering and also be quenched this is the same as other non ferrous metals like nickel, silver, brass... Aluminum is more difficult I've seldom had good results when heating it. Regular mild steel get fairly hard and can be case hardened.
You'll probably find A2 much better for what your doing. It being an air hardening steel is much easier to work with than oil hardening
Hi John, I do that stuff every day. Just did a 1" blank dia alum. .007 th material .625 od .315 tall. Nice vids keep it up
make the tools. (cad) lathe. cotton wheels pencil grinder jewelers rouge. Prototype 35 yrs. Made some weird ass parts in my day. later brother have fun
I can do the strip layout if you need it.
If you are in NYC I am just Northwest of you in Toronto, Canada. Most of the information I have acquired on Model Boilers has been from British Publications, and my early Mentors were from Scotland and Wales.
I Silver Solder 450 °C (840 °F) , You want everything a nice cherry red, and the solder just flashes into the joint.
I just remmembered you said these are for 9mm shells, I thought that they were made from Brass?
? Why not anneal your copper strip before you start drawing jackets? I would expect them to form smoother throughout all the steps because the copper would flow more into the shape you want in the end.
Many years ago I made a die to take 44 gas checks and make 32 Auto half jackets. At that time all you get was Full Metal Jacket bullets I also made a die to wedge the Half Jacket bullets
It truly is fascinating to press out those shiny babies! (well this sound's wrong :D)
You are doing a great job! Keep it up.
Have a nice day!
Hey John, nice work...thought you might get some ideas from another 'tuber that I ran across. Check out Bullet Jacket Making Dies part 1
John - make a thread on the end of a rod which matches the thread on the end of your pliers and screw that rod into the pliers - use a button ( drilled through rod of say 1,1/2") or so diameter as a sliding pull hammer - button is pulled against a stop at the end of the rod whilst your pliers grip what you want to pull - makes easy work of small pulling tasks as per your video.
Have enjoyed watching your videos off and on for a while now.
Cheers Pete
Yes if you don't anneal it cracks or creases. You try to just shape and get as little thinning as possable as after forming you normaly have to skim the diamater in the lathe so you get 0.001" clearence between the end plates and the barrel for silver soldering.
Nice work. You cold make the guide bushing 2 parts(top part same ID as dye bottom same as the bushing you have to slip in the cup)with locking studs so they line up proper each time it keep the punch straighter and even out the pressure. You also could put a hole in the punch for a T handle to make it easier to separate the cup and punch or you could bore a hole threw it with a good radius on the punch face so you could just push off the jacket instead of pulling it apart, help with suction to
the whole reason I watched this it looks like in the thumb nail you arbor press input is clear with a red screw holding the handle but it's just really shiny nice jackets BTW I have been watching your channel for quite awhile
The problem is; that a bullet company can make all this plus the full bullet at thousands per hour. Something is missing?
Looks like if the arbor press design is working for you a turret is in order.
Also to consider: if the punch were fixed to the upper part of the turret press and the bushing secured to the bottom you could use the up stroke to pull the workpiece from the punch, with some minor design revision required.
I do model Boilers out of copper and form the end pieces over formers with a hammer and find I have to anneal the blanks a number of times during the proccess.
you have done a excellent job on the dies have you thought about marketing them a lot of serious reloaders would love this option on their bench or would the cost of producing them be too much thanks for the video series good job sir
Enjoyed the videos. How are the dies doing now that it's six years later? Any other improvements?
This has been a wonderful series of videos! Thank you so much for making them. My interest isn't in making bullet jackets although I do make jacketed 6mm bullets to shoot bench rest. I also make bamboo rods and use nickel silver ferrules. I have been sizing down nickel silver tubing for traditional ferrules with a wall thickness of .015. My problem is I'd like to make some ferrules for a spey rod which require a wall thickness of .030. Hence I need to form cups and then draw them out. The process will be the same as your bullet jackets. If you care to exchange information I could help you with the uneven ends on your jackets. The problem is in having a tighter fit for your pushing rod through the die and having it perfectly centered and strait up and down on when pushing it with the arbor press. It is problematic as your wall thickness will not be uniform. Please let me know how I could contact you. Thanks again and all the best, Don Hansen.
How do you prevent wrinkling in the cupping stage?
Great job, I thought you were going to make this for the portable electric punch you have.
Pinch dies work the best (most efficient) for trimming them.
The reason for the crooked parts is you are missing a locator sleeve
What the heck is the "T" word? Doesn't fit any of the cuss words I know. I tried to think of words that might excite a dog - food, walk, etc - but couldn't come up with any "T" candidates there, either.
Treat
could you use a similar process to make bullet shells like a 30 cal or so?
Let me know when you have a set of dies for a 9mm ready for sale. Good job
why are they made of copper? am not a gun guy
It's because the riffled barrels are not hardened and a steel jacket bullet would wear down the riffling after repeated firing. Full lead bullets became obsolete a century ago as they would strip if the helix was too steep. Copper and its alloys are the perfect middle ground.
Actually barrels are hardened. Usually through nitride or chrome plating, some, like 50cal barrels, are simply made from a harder material fitted inside a barrel.
It's a barrier between the lead core or steel core of the bullet and the lands of your rifling. If you have lead touch the lands it binds hard to them and fouls up your gun throwing off accuracy or even causing another bullet to stick in the barrel.
The copper acts like a guide to stop this as it's sufficiently hard to not sinter or forge weld into the lands.
With a steel core it stops the hardened steel from grinding on the hardened steel of your lands, which would be like rubbing two files together, it wears the barrel out super quick and ruins it, like within a single magazine, the copper is sufficiently dense to add mass for stability, sufficiently tough to deform just the right amount to engage the lands effectively and give maximum accuracy and has a sufficiently high melting point that it will not "lead" the barrel. That is to say it will sinter, forge weld or melt onto the lands or grooves, giving you a clean barrel which means accuracy or if you prefer, sustained fire. While delivering your hardened steel core to the target to defeat their armour.
The jacket serves a double function here in that once fired its hit and it gets even hotter, effectively liquidising after creating a dent and softening the impacted material which then is easier for the hardened steel core to penetrate and easier again as the liquid copper acts like lubrication to help the steel core through the target.
I hour that clarifies things.
neat stuff for sure but here's a video for an easy mod to do to your non ratcheting arbor press to eliminate the issue of the handle being at the wrong angle for applying optimal pressure. I did it to my press and it has worked out very well. Half Ton Arbor Mod
I noticed the vertical (minimum power) handle on the arbor press for both dies. For short run production on my little arbor press, I put a spacer under the work piece to get the arbor press handle in the power zone.
Enlighten me. What is the "T" word?
what the Quipment for do that Homemade
That’s a lot of work and time for a $.05 part
😂 I got 12 bullets left out of an old box of Nosler s that have been discontinued for a 22. Hornet components as far a beans go are non existent you might as well try and find a unicorn I got several boxes of beans I’ve tried none have performed as well as these old Nosler’s because they do not fly as well you can find a video of Elon musk talking about his rockets and the shape of the nose he said I said more pointy and the engineer said it will not fly as well but they did it anyway but only to a degree as to not detrimentally effect is aerodynamics in an extreme manner
@@savannahdennis9351maybe try punctuation?
can you do an up date to this video
Couldn't you use metal spinning?
John NYCCNC Spinning would not be as uniform. It would be hard to match weight and thickness all over.
David Kirtley home come?
With spinning, you are doing it by pushing a ridge as it turns. Kind of like riding a wave. The metal isn't homogeneous and will end up with some thicker and thinner parts. The swage makes it kind of "flow in all directions at once"
this isn't a problem in cnc spinning; i think cnc is implied when he will be making 1000s of parts.