I've actually never heard of Aeon Timeline (or if I have, I've forgotten), so thanks for mentioning it. At a cursory glance of the website, it looks like Aeon Timeline has more use cases and is generally more sophisticated than Plottr, but also might be slightly tougher to read. Not sure, but I may have to give it a trial. (No promises yet, but it's tempting.) If I were choosing between them, I think the decision would come down to price. Both have the option to buy 1-year support, with Aeon Timeline more than double the cost. BUT, they differ in how they handle the second year and beyond. Plottr has a lifetime option, a Pro option for cross-platform plus cloud support (coming in May), and annual pricing depending on number of licenses (up to three, if I recall). Aeon Timeline has a renewal fee of just over half price, and gives you licenses up to five devices, making it affordable in the long-term. But if price isn't a problem, then I might consider Aeon Timeline since it offers so many use cases beyond fiction plotting. I mean, you could probably use it to schedule your dental appointment if you needed to. That said, I've been using Plottr Pro a bit for the last couple of weeks (I bought the third round beta lifetime deal in March and posted a video about it shortly after: ua-cam.com/video/C9vo3oUlnDc/v-deo.html), and there's something special about being able to edit your outline no matter where you are (home, beach, cafe, wherever). I'm not sure if Aeon Timeline untethers you from your home computer or laptop. If it doesn't, then Plottr Pro may win on accessibility. But if it does, then Aeon Timeline might be tough to beat. Either way, I'll have to check this one out (someday). Thanks for mentioning it.
@@zippywings Another vote for Aeon Timeline, although I agree that it's harder to just dive into right away, vs. Plottr. I have Plottr open now as I follow along with your video; it's my first time using it and it looks like it could be my go-to if I want to hash out something quickly. Scrivener and Google Docs are my main tools for pantsing; sometimes I want to plan something more intricately, so my first choice would be Aeon Timeline, but Plottr may end up superseding it.
Thanks! for this Plottr review, and for mentioning Snowflake Pro. I went to his site, where Randy offers the software for free now, as he no longer updates it. I have a little fetish for trying out software for writers, but if I'm not careful my fics will die in the planning phase.
I still haven't done the Snowflake Pro review that I'd intended, but I know Randy Ingermanson has fully endorsed Plottr as the official go-to for using the Snowflake Method, so it may no longer be necessary. At the same time, I think Randy's tutorials that come with Snowflake Pro are worth the download anyway.
I haven't used World Anvil yet, so I can't comment on that. Between the others, I'd say they each have their pros and cons that ultimately equalize them. Campfire Pro: Pros - You buy it once for a low price. Runs on desktop. Super versatile. Highly visual. Has a Steam integration if you prefer to buy it from that market. Any type of fiction writer can use it to his or her advantage. Cons - No longer updated. Ultimately inferior to Blaze. Too many options complicates the experience, and it's easy to get lost in the weeds if you don't have a system in place. The Worldbuilding features are an extra cost (though still affordable for most users), yet not having the Worldbuilding feature makes owning Campfire Pro almost meaningless (almost). Campfire Blaze: Pros - One of the most complete software packages for storytellers on the market. Takes all the great features of Pro (including the Worldbuilding add-on) and expands them. Developers seem to understand what users want and are willing to update their systems to fit the majority of user needs (I say this in response to them making the timeline feature less obnoxious than it was during the open beta, though they probably still have room for improvement). Includes features you probably didn't know you needed (maybe a con, depending on your viewpoint). Includes a functional if not basic manuscript module. Also has collaboration features if you have co-writers and sharing features if you want to "write in public." Cons - The most expensive of the lot if you want everything it offers. Runs on a subscription model, though you can buy lifetime options (hence the expensiveness, though the monthlies aren't too bad in the short-term). Web-based only (as of this writing), so it has the potential to lag hard, depending on your browser and connection, which is a deal-breaker if you're actually writing. Note: They are working on a desktop version, so my opinion on their performance will naturally rise in the next few months. Like Campfire Pro, it may offer too much excuse for writers to put off the actual writing. That timeline feature...ugh (but I do think it's better now than it was). Plottr: Pros - Super simple to use. Intuitive design (mostly). You can dive in without a tutorial and still do okay, though you can certainly watch their tutorials and understand it even better. Comes with story development templates across most of the popular structures, including Hero's Journey, Save the Cat!, Snowflake Method, and more. Has a timeline and outlining structure that actually makes sense (which you can also export as a DOC or Scrivener file). Highly customizable with tags, character and scene attributes, and so on. Allows you to store multiple titles in the same series (though it doesn't yet pull information across titles). And it's relatively inexpensive (though the prices are supposed to go up this year, so I'd snag it soon if it's your preferred app). They offer a public roadmap where you can voice your requests and upvote your favorite features (I actually just started using that same system for my own site-in-progress, and I'll be releasing an ideas board for readers and writers to use and communicate their interests with each other soon). Cons - Doesn't have a section for items. This is a limitation for me personally. I think the character and setting builders are perfectly fine, but I want one for items, and it doesn't offer that, and I can't tell if they're planning to add it. Custom character and scene attributes still can't be updated without creating a new save file. This makes new ideas and version control a pain. Reordering custom attributes doesn't work particularly well (if at all). Until they solve this problem, you almost have to plan your character design outside the editor before you implement it if you want to list things in a particular order, which defeats the purpose of having it, in my opinion. So, ultimately, I think the best decision comes down to what you want to accomplish. For me, I'll keep using Scrivener primarily, but my favorite of the three is Plottr. I like the Campfires, but until I track my epic superhero series more and record all of its many nuances (which will happen eventually), I don't have a lot of use for them. Their most useful all-genre features are the character attributes and relationship builders, and maybe the location editors. My recommendation is to buy Blaze's character modules at the very least, or recreate their attribute builder in Plottr. I also think the Campfire location trackers (aka maps) are pretty good. But unless you're a sci-fi, fantasy, or mystery writer, or you like to plan EVERYTHING, I think the Campfires are a bit much for the average writer. Alternatively, if you write in one of those three genres, then I think you're shooting yourself in the foot by not giving one of the Campfires a chance. Final Verdict: Choose Campfire Pro (and its Worldbuilding add-on) if: -Your budget is tight -You like to over-plan everything -You're highly visual -You don't mind legacy software (software that's no longer updated) -You tell stories with complicated webs of information (character relationships, faction information, etc.) -You write in sci-fi, fantasy, or mystery genres Choose Campfire Blaze if: -Your budget is loose -You fit the remaining requirements I listed for Pro -You don't mind working in the cloud -You need your planner to also contain a manuscript-writing module -You need to collaborate with other writers (Blaze is the only one of the three that can network), or you want to show off your writing as you go (by choice, not by requirement) Choose Plottr if: -Your budget is tight -You want simplicity -You can live with just plotting, character development, and scene development -You like the idea of hanging Post-Its of chapter and scene descriptions on your wall without actually going through the process of looking like a crazy person -Your genre doesn't require complicated webs of information Hope that helps.
I have just spent a few hours working in OneNote to try it out. I find that is an option as well. Downside is that you have to do a lot of work yourself. But one can save directly to Dropbox if you have that installed on your PC. It is also very quick. But again, it lacks features, but is free for me as I have it already. I do have Scrivener, but I am not really satisfied with it for world-building this project. It lacks good image handling and the lack of timelines.
My project is a sprawling project where I work on both a role-playing game and two parallel novel series. Epic Fantasy. I have some complicated timelines to manage and a lot of artworks that goes into it and would love to world-build before I finish any of the books. Covers are all made and a lot of work has gone into it spreaded on Scrivener and Google Docs. Thanks again! Have a great day!
@@LarsLeonhard It sounds to me like you'd benefit from using one of the Campfires then (maybe Blaze, since you can use it on any device), but if cost is an issue, then I'd start with only the modules you absolutely need today (again, if you choose Blaze). That said, look into World Anvil. I personally haven't used it (I plan to whenever money is less restrictive), but it has a fan following from within your genre, so it might be worth copy/pasting a features list between that and Blaze to see which one fits your needs and abilities better.
Exactly what I was looking for, this was very helpful! Thanks :)
Glad it helps!
Great video man. Subscribed
Thank you.
Hi, any idea on Plottr vs Aeon timeline? Thanks.
I've actually never heard of Aeon Timeline (or if I have, I've forgotten), so thanks for mentioning it. At a cursory glance of the website, it looks like Aeon Timeline has more use cases and is generally more sophisticated than Plottr, but also might be slightly tougher to read. Not sure, but I may have to give it a trial. (No promises yet, but it's tempting.)
If I were choosing between them, I think the decision would come down to price. Both have the option to buy 1-year support, with Aeon Timeline more than double the cost. BUT, they differ in how they handle the second year and beyond. Plottr has a lifetime option, a Pro option for cross-platform plus cloud support (coming in May), and annual pricing depending on number of licenses (up to three, if I recall). Aeon Timeline has a renewal fee of just over half price, and gives you licenses up to five devices, making it affordable in the long-term.
But if price isn't a problem, then I might consider Aeon Timeline since it offers so many use cases beyond fiction plotting. I mean, you could probably use it to schedule your dental appointment if you needed to. That said, I've been using Plottr Pro a bit for the last couple of weeks (I bought the third round beta lifetime deal in March and posted a video about it shortly after: ua-cam.com/video/C9vo3oUlnDc/v-deo.html), and there's something special about being able to edit your outline no matter where you are (home, beach, cafe, wherever). I'm not sure if Aeon Timeline untethers you from your home computer or laptop. If it doesn't, then Plottr Pro may win on accessibility. But if it does, then Aeon Timeline might be tough to beat.
Either way, I'll have to check this one out (someday). Thanks for mentioning it.
@@zippywings Another vote for Aeon Timeline, although I agree that it's harder to just dive into right away, vs. Plottr. I have Plottr open now as I follow along with your video; it's my first time using it and it looks like it could be my go-to if I want to hash out something quickly. Scrivener and Google Docs are my main tools for pantsing; sometimes I want to plan something more intricately, so my first choice would be Aeon Timeline, but Plottr may end up superseding it.
@@sainte3443 Thanks for the feedback. The more I look at Aeon Timeline, the more I think it's worth a look.
Thanks! for this Plottr review, and for mentioning Snowflake Pro. I went to his site, where Randy offers the software for free now, as he no longer updates it. I have a little fetish for trying out software for writers, but if I'm not careful my fics will die in the planning phase.
I still haven't done the Snowflake Pro review that I'd intended, but I know Randy Ingermanson has fully endorsed Plottr as the official go-to for using the Snowflake Method, so it may no longer be necessary. At the same time, I think Randy's tutorials that come with Snowflake Pro are worth the download anyway.
Which tool do you prefer; World Anvil, Campfire Pro, Campfire Blaze or Plottr?
I haven't used World Anvil yet, so I can't comment on that. Between the others, I'd say they each have their pros and cons that ultimately equalize them.
Campfire Pro:
Pros - You buy it once for a low price. Runs on desktop. Super versatile. Highly visual. Has a Steam integration if you prefer to buy it from that market. Any type of fiction writer can use it to his or her advantage.
Cons - No longer updated. Ultimately inferior to Blaze. Too many options complicates the experience, and it's easy to get lost in the weeds if you don't have a system in place. The Worldbuilding features are an extra cost (though still affordable for most users), yet not having the Worldbuilding feature makes owning Campfire Pro almost meaningless (almost).
Campfire Blaze:
Pros - One of the most complete software packages for storytellers on the market. Takes all the great features of Pro (including the Worldbuilding add-on) and expands them. Developers seem to understand what users want and are willing to update their systems to fit the majority of user needs (I say this in response to them making the timeline feature less obnoxious than it was during the open beta, though they probably still have room for improvement). Includes features you probably didn't know you needed (maybe a con, depending on your viewpoint). Includes a functional if not basic manuscript module. Also has collaboration features if you have co-writers and sharing features if you want to "write in public."
Cons - The most expensive of the lot if you want everything it offers. Runs on a subscription model, though you can buy lifetime options (hence the expensiveness, though the monthlies aren't too bad in the short-term). Web-based only (as of this writing), so it has the potential to lag hard, depending on your browser and connection, which is a deal-breaker if you're actually writing. Note: They are working on a desktop version, so my opinion on their performance will naturally rise in the next few months. Like Campfire Pro, it may offer too much excuse for writers to put off the actual writing. That timeline feature...ugh (but I do think it's better now than it was).
Plottr:
Pros - Super simple to use. Intuitive design (mostly). You can dive in without a tutorial and still do okay, though you can certainly watch their tutorials and understand it even better. Comes with story development templates across most of the popular structures, including Hero's Journey, Save the Cat!, Snowflake Method, and more. Has a timeline and outlining structure that actually makes sense (which you can also export as a DOC or Scrivener file). Highly customizable with tags, character and scene attributes, and so on. Allows you to store multiple titles in the same series (though it doesn't yet pull information across titles). And it's relatively inexpensive (though the prices are supposed to go up this year, so I'd snag it soon if it's your preferred app). They offer a public roadmap where you can voice your requests and upvote your favorite features (I actually just started using that same system for my own site-in-progress, and I'll be releasing an ideas board for readers and writers to use and communicate their interests with each other soon).
Cons - Doesn't have a section for items. This is a limitation for me personally. I think the character and setting builders are perfectly fine, but I want one for items, and it doesn't offer that, and I can't tell if they're planning to add it. Custom character and scene attributes still can't be updated without creating a new save file. This makes new ideas and version control a pain. Reordering custom attributes doesn't work particularly well (if at all). Until they solve this problem, you almost have to plan your character design outside the editor before you implement it if you want to list things in a particular order, which defeats the purpose of having it, in my opinion.
So, ultimately, I think the best decision comes down to what you want to accomplish. For me, I'll keep using Scrivener primarily, but my favorite of the three is Plottr. I like the Campfires, but until I track my epic superhero series more and record all of its many nuances (which will happen eventually), I don't have a lot of use for them. Their most useful all-genre features are the character attributes and relationship builders, and maybe the location editors. My recommendation is to buy Blaze's character modules at the very least, or recreate their attribute builder in Plottr. I also think the Campfire location trackers (aka maps) are pretty good. But unless you're a sci-fi, fantasy, or mystery writer, or you like to plan EVERYTHING, I think the Campfires are a bit much for the average writer. Alternatively, if you write in one of those three genres, then I think you're shooting yourself in the foot by not giving one of the Campfires a chance.
Final Verdict:
Choose Campfire Pro (and its Worldbuilding add-on) if:
-Your budget is tight
-You like to over-plan everything
-You're highly visual
-You don't mind legacy software (software that's no longer updated)
-You tell stories with complicated webs of information (character relationships, faction information, etc.)
-You write in sci-fi, fantasy, or mystery genres
Choose Campfire Blaze if:
-Your budget is loose
-You fit the remaining requirements I listed for Pro
-You don't mind working in the cloud
-You need your planner to also contain a manuscript-writing module
-You need to collaborate with other writers (Blaze is the only one of the three that can network), or you want to show off your writing as you go (by choice, not by requirement)
Choose Plottr if:
-Your budget is tight
-You want simplicity
-You can live with just plotting, character development, and scene development
-You like the idea of hanging Post-Its of chapter and scene descriptions on your wall without actually going through the process of looking like a crazy person
-Your genre doesn't require complicated webs of information
Hope that helps.
I have just spent a few hours working in OneNote to try it out. I find that is an option as well. Downside is that you have to do a lot of work yourself. But one can save directly to Dropbox if you have that installed on your PC. It is also very quick. But again, it lacks features, but is free for me as I have it already.
I do have Scrivener, but I am not really satisfied with it for world-building this project. It lacks good image handling and the lack of timelines.
My project is a sprawling project where I work on both a role-playing game and two parallel novel series. Epic Fantasy. I have some complicated timelines to manage and a lot of artworks that goes into it and would love to world-build before I finish any of the books. Covers are all made and a lot of work has gone into it spreaded on Scrivener and Google Docs.
Thanks again! Have a great day!
@@LarsLeonhard It sounds to me like you'd benefit from using one of the Campfires then (maybe Blaze, since you can use it on any device), but if cost is an issue, then I'd start with only the modules you absolutely need today (again, if you choose Blaze). That said, look into World Anvil. I personally haven't used it (I plan to whenever money is less restrictive), but it has a fan following from within your genre, so it might be worth copy/pasting a features list between that and Blaze to see which one fits your needs and abilities better.
@@zippywings Thanks again. Something to ponder for sure!
Are you okay? Your voice like it's not fine.
Yep, that's just how I talk.