Clash of Styles! Avola vs Choi
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
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An interesting matchup between two top tier fencers with diametrically opposing styles - Ryan Choi from Hong Kong and Giorgio Avola from Italy!
Thumbnail picture from Augusto Bizzi
![[전국체전] 어제는 동료, 오늘은 경쟁자 하태규 vs 이광현 / 펜싱 남자 일반부 플뢰레 결승 #아시안게임 #단체전 #금메달 #개인전 #경쟁자 #2023전국체육대회 | 유료광고포함](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6_A4CIWWW0s/mqdefault.jpg)
Why was this recommend to me i know nothing about fencing and I have no clue whats going on
haha sorry dude 😅 The algorithm promoted the hell out of it because the massive comment thread below maxxed out the "engagement" meter.
Smash like while you are here lol 😜
@@OlympicFoil damn good luck hope you ride the wave
Cheers man 🙌
The dude on the right fences kind of how you're "supposed" to fence. The dude on the left fences in a more modern style which roots itself in working within the rules (often streching them) and milking the just-barely-points he can get. If we think about a timing meter from a video game, the dude on the right has a pretty big timing meter in the stuff that he does while the dude on the right has a really really small one. A decent comparison would be between Steph Curry and a traditional big man (in terms of playing style, the 3pt shot vs the traditional post/mid range).
I cant even see the foils lol
It's crazy to think that in today's foil fencing, it's the Italians who are fencing in a "classical" style. It was Dal Zotto who revolutionized foil with his (back then) crazy actions at the 1976 Montreal Olympics.
Foil is always fun to watch!
No disagreement from me on that one haha 😁
The moment Avola argues about attack right of way, you know he is going to lose.
"Aaaaaaaaaa!" -somebody
Interested in watching more Choi vs Avola? check out their Tokyo bout:
ua-cam.com/video/JtJneo1iYIU/v-deo.html&ab_channel=OlympicFoil
Also available is this commentary breakdown of Choi vs Imboden (my first ever video 😛 ):
ua-cam.com/video/Wn__N-WylEk/v-deo.html&ab_channel=OlympicFoil
Amazing touches 👏
When a bagpipe and a violin play in the key of C both have the same intention but exhibit very different performances.
Nice 😄
@1:21 wins the point, argues the call XD
lmao, that's peak foil tbh 😂
i don't know if i have ever argued if i got a point i didn't get, but when the ref looks like they aren't sure (and our players take turns reffing, we don't have a dedicated ref, so we don't always know how to call things) and it was clear to me the other guy got the point i'll tell em, like "he attacked, i parried, my riposte was short, he attacked me and ran into my blade, so it should be his point"
Eh, I think Avola's fair to be upset though. It clearly looked like prep from Choi to me. He starts so late that he even gets locked out lmao.
@@inscrutablemungus4143 def atk in prep
I’m guessing that Avola is the one with a more classical style?
Yep exactly 🙂 Avola is more of what people would think of for a "textbook" foil fencer
It's a shame the classical fencer didn't win.
Does anyone else think that adjusting the timing on the boxes to give fewer double touches would be a great idea? Then if someone marches without extending and the opponent counter attacks the advancing fencer has less time to land their hit. That would encourage more classical attacks I think.
I wouldn't mind fencing on a shorter time tbh, although it might make watching the foil more boring
@@OlympicFoil I guess so. It might make it more defensive like epee which can be pretty tedious. I just think it would make the hand more important than the feet in gaining priority. I know it is really but there seem to be a lot of refs scared to give hits on prep against the march.
No. If anything, the lockout timing should be extended to around 0.4 seconds. Your solution, as you illustrate, actually encourage more counterattacks, defeating the whole point.
That would actually make it worse. Counterattacks are already strong in foil, let's not make everyone fence like Joppich (EDIT: And I say that as someone who idolized Joppich and have been told I fence like him, but way crappier). I think the solution is to make prep calls more consistent. I know this is an old comment, but IME more refs at NACs/Nationals are more willing to call prep these days than they were 3-4 years ago, which is a great thing.
@@inscrutablemungus4143I still think it would be better if the fencer who is marching with the arm back could not land their attacks after a genuine attack on prep. I still don't see enough refs daring to give points against the march.
4:43 why is advancing with chest puffed out with weapon arm pulled back a "good move" here?
Counter time! He wants Avola to take the bait and go in
@@OlympicFoil Advancing with arms pulled back shouldn't be considered priority. But regretfully, Avola retreated and gave up priority to Choi.
I suppose more point-in-line actions should defeat Choi's "unique" forward move.
I love point in line 😃 There are a few point in line compilations on the channel, you might enjoy them!
false guard im guessing?
@@OlympicFoil one of my favourite things is doing point in line, then when they go to beat my blade doing a derobement and go in for a lunge. it's one of the few times you can use derobement in foil and be sure the ref is gonna pick up on it (the other is if the opponent over commits to a beat you can punish that split second before he can bring his point back on target, if you are lucky he wont even hit you and the ref won't have to make a call on whether that was a counter attack or not.)
❤🔥
0:31 Why wasn't it Choi's point?
Choi's attack ended when his foot hit the ground. His tip was still extended when Avola took over the attack, which counted as a remise (did not have priority).
--At least, that was one call. Directors can reasonably disagree, and I am willing to bet Choi did.
@@adjd1576 the 'foot hit the ground' thing is more often seen as the end of the attack in Sabre, not Foil
@@weedywet I agree, but still, the attack has an end in foil, and the director saw it end there.
@@adjd1576 clearly. but we don't know that's "because " of when the foot came down.
Running forward with his arm drawn and jabbing at the last moment, seems to have been Choi's killer tactic. See rule t.84.3 bwefencingclub.com/rules
As this bout demonstrates, that's not really how this action is called these days.
@@The1337Fokker agreed, more's the pity. It makes a bit of a mockery of the traditions of fencing and rewards a trick over skill.
It is as it is but it reminds me why I gave up fencing or teaching foil.
What do you think is the best way to counter an opponent who fences like this John?
@@johnrohde5510 Not sure how you can reasonably call it a trick. There are plenty of ways to counter this action (and every action in fencing), e.g. closing the distance with a counterattack so the attacker has no time to finish. If you know how to counter an action, it takes skill to make the action work.
Edited to add: We can respect the traditions of fencing, but in the end it's still a competitive sport. To stay at the top requires innovation and change. Keeping fencing the way it was in the "good old days" would be pretty boring I'd think.
Well said Ben!