Dead Tired - Colgan Air Flight 3407
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2018
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Colgan Air Flight 3407, marketed as Continental Connection under a codeshare agreement with Continental Airlines, was a scheduled passenger flight from Newark, New Jersey, to Buffalo, New York on February 12, 2009. - Ігри
what wasn't mentioned here was Captain Renslow's dismissal from previous jobs for fabricating his flight hours. Did it have a huge effect on the outcome of this incident? maybe, maybe not. But anyway, this was the crash that changed everything for pilots with the 1,500 hour rule. its quite astounding what a controversial and hot-topic this crash is in the overall debate of aviation safety and pilot qualifications.
250 for commercial license and 1500 for Airline transport right?
What was the non-flight related chatter about? I think that the no-chatter rule during the take-off and landing of the plane is justified.
This flight hits close to home, guys... literally. It crashed about a mile from my home. I was three, I didn’t know what happened, but now that I do this story is touching. One girl in my school’s father was a victim. There’s an awesome huge memorial of it in my local library. Bless everybody who didn’t survive.
How the hell was this guy a captain when he couldn't recognize and recover from a simple stall? That's one of the first things they teach you.
I think I'm going to walk everywhere from now on
What a reply. Nice!
mattimus13 you know they hit the ground when they fall?
@@lostpianist I'm wit you bro. already started using my bike now everything's close. I'm quite happy and excersized 2 boot..
Flying is safer by far.
Thejonez You are 3 to 20 times more likely to die in a bicycle accident than a car accident depending on your geography. You are about 90 times more likely to die in a car crash than a plane crash (commercial and GA all inclusive). You can do the rest of math.
The number of air crashes and fatalities seemingly caused by failing to recover from the stall is - well, just baffling. Years ago I was a glider pilot and I had a PPL. Pretty humble stuff. But hammered into us, all through our training and beyond, was how to become aware of, avoid and recover from stalls. Stalls with power on, stalls with power off, high-speed stalls, low-speed stalls, stalls from straight and level, stalls in the turn etc.. It got so a private pilot or glider pilot could recover from stalls in their sleep. And so, I shout, 'No, no, NO!!' at the computer screen each time another airline pilot either doesn't realise they're in the stall or does the flat-out wrong thing, like pulling back on the stick or failing to apply power. There seems to be something fundamentally wrong in the training; it happens over and over again.... Great vid by the way, you run an excellent channel!
Yes indeed, stall recovery is beat into your head until your aviation instinct goes against your natural instinct.
Then you practice even more.......lol.
All pilots SHOULD/MUST train as glider pilots first? That would be a good training?
Perhaps by now if we are lucky, all these terrible pilots who somehow made it to commercial flight status despite basically not knowing how to fly a plane and surviving by hand holding and autopilot have all already crashed.
How about the crash by that French aircrew flying out of Brazil years ago? They had no clue about what they were doing!
I think there are some people who just shouldn't be a pilot. they freeze, over react or do the exact opposite of what they should....sadly, good people have to pay the price.
My friend was on this flight she was going to buffalo state for an alumni hockey team event.Rest in Peace Madeline Loftus. You were a beautiful soul.They were 8 miles from the runway which makes it so much more tragic. She was only 24 at the time
Sorry for your loss, my friend. RIP
Milo thank you
@@vincentm.7462 condolences
Thank you for not including music at the end of the video. The silent captions are the most appropriate way to document these sad, unfortunate incidents.
I'm a retired pilot. My first professional flying job was as a flight instructor for Colgan when it was just a small town airport operation. So that was a few Tuesdays ago. My son has flown the Q-400 and I guaran-dam-tee this would never have happened had he been at the controls. As I understand it, the flight was descending to level off at a certain altitude. It was on auto-pilot. My son tells me that the Q-400 does not have auto-throttles, so when the auto-pilot leveled off, the power stayed at idle. Naturally, the auto-pilot pitched up attempting to hold the assigned altitude. Right into a stall. The pilots realizing a stall was imminent shoved the power way up. Again, information from my son. A rapid increase in power causes that aircraft to pitch up and also torque roll. An experienced pilot knows this and compensates. This put them in a full stall. Their mistake was in not monitoring what their airplane was doing, unaware of bleeding airspeed, not coming in with power as it leveled off. It's called flying with your head "up and locked". So sad.
Seems odd that there isn't a standardized set of expectations pilots can have on commercial aircraft. That you have to speak with your son to gain insight into this particular plane, even as a flight instructor, is troubling to me. Not meant as a jab towards your skill or experience -- just how variable each aircraft can be. Given the recent Lion Air crash, and preliminary investigation pointing towards pilots being unaware of a new feature in the automated system, this further illustrates my point. I get not watching their instruments was a crucial mistake here, but there is rarely just one cause of an accident. Auto-pilot shouldn't be able to stall an aircraft for instance.
@@chaykuh To be fair, I would imagine it is similar to driving a car. The fundamentals are the same in all cars (steering wheel, mirrors, gas pedal, stop pedal), but there are many variables depending on which car you're in. For example, something as critical as a shifter is not standardized in a vehicle. You can have a shifter in the middle (where most are familiar with), you can have it on the steering wheel column, and more recently, some cars have completely replaced the shifter with buttons for the different modes, and that's just automatics. Not even turn signals, windshield wipers or rear window defrosters (essential for safe driving) are standardized when it comes to location or how they are enabled. There are so many variables in cars, which I would go ahead and guess are much simpler than planes to operate. I drive a lot of cars and it takes time to get used to the controls and I would imagine it is the same for a pilot going into a new plane. That said, standardizing makes a ton of sense, especially in planes. But even if you standardize controls and training, the way the plane flies will never be standardized because there will be different engines, sizes and loads to consider.
I was just watching a video on 9/11 Survivor a wife that was married to her husband for 30 years lost him in the South Tower as the building collapsed and she was a well-known advocate for the 9/11 survivors. She was on this flight and died it's just so weird and such a coincidence that she were to die in a tragic way as well as her husband. May they both be together again and finally rest in peace.
I've been waiting for this one for years. Thanks X-Pilot!!!
I like that you just tell the story and that it’s. No dramatic music or Hollywood style edits to make it “more dramatic”. The situation is dramatic enough. Great job.
how do you fail 3 tests and still get made a pilot?
Were they in a row?
5 tests, actually.
You pass the 6th
I wouldn't have tested him for the 6th...wow, shitty airline.
It was a wake-up call to the FAA. The ATPL program was made to require much higher hours to be an airline pilot. Really sad because my flight instructor personally knew one of the pilots, he still has no problem talking about the serious mistakes made.
I am totally addicted to your videos, awesome job. I stay up late watching them almost every night. Thank you
You make the best flight Videos 👍👍👍
this might be one of the more sought-after of flight recreations. well done
As usual, another great video from you X Pilot! I have been trying to watch all of your videos, since they are done so well and in my personal opinion, professional! Thank you very much!
Awesome video as usual dude!
Nice job, X. Very well done. Short flight, simple cause, concise vid. I like it. Keep 'em coming, though may there be few accidents in the future for you to show :D
We have many accidents in the past right now. We do not need more. Check uncontained tubofan disk failures in high hour aircraft. That is a problem now in overhauled turbojet engines. All companies know this a problem and still do not test for it. Dad was a helicopter FRONT LINE pilot in the Korean War picking up dead and wounded that were our soldiers and the real MASH was never like the TV show or the movie. I am a pilot with seat of the pants flying time. Before going commercial, I would MANDATE ALL GA flying first. No more F-ing computer programmers that claim hours in a simulator.
Since I worked at the hardware stuff at Cray Research, I tend to despise all computer programmers. They submit a workaround without fixing the original problem; that is why computer code is so long. Kludges that date back to the 1980s are included in the code we use today!
I live in buffalo and I remember seeing this on the late night news. I always thought It was the weather that played a factor. But wow thanks making this.
I am also a Buffalo area resident. The first reports blamed icing but vert shortly afterwards pilot error was identified as pilot error.
Great vid as always bud
I have been waiting on this one! It is especially poignant for me because my very first plane ride was two days after the crash to Newark... it was a small plane and I was terrified but learned about this accident just before boarding the plane. So glad my plans did not change that week.
A pilot isn't able to recover a plane from a stall and yet an untrained baggage handler is able to do crazy aerobatics with the same model of plane, including a loop with a recovery from a possible stall situation over a lake.
I remember that!!
brilliant video m8 I love ACI vids so much to learn 😉👍
X Pilot ;D
Thanks for this video. I always wondered about this one, and the usual explanation of icing.....
Luv your vids X. I learn more from you than my science class
Just found this channel...a friend and guy I worked with died in this crash..RIP John and all the rest on board.
I actually had to do a report of this accident for one of my aviation courses and it turns out that the airline was at fault just as much as the pilots. The airline gave their pilots winter weather operations training, but most of it was so general that it was mostly the basics all over again. They also used a 10 year old training video that wasn’t even for the Q400. The video talked of wing stalls and tailplane stalls and how to recover from each. Recovering from a tailplane stall required pulling the yoke back and retracting the flaps just as the pilots did in this case. As it turns out, the Q400 is not susceptible to tailplane stalls so the pilots were given information that wasn’t pertinent to their aircraft. The pilots recovered in the right way, but for the wrong situation. However this does not excuse either pilots from not going back to their fundamentals of flying and breaking the stall correctly. This was a terrible accident, may those affected rest in peace and their families be comforted.
"I actually had to do a report of this accident for one of my aviation courses and it turns out that the airline was at fault just as much as the pilots."
Then you did it wrong. This wasn't a tailplane stall, and (if everything else wasn't enough) the stick shaker and Pusher would have alerted the pilots it was a wing stall. Inexplicably, the pilot tried to pitch up and hold altitude, instead of a proper stall recovery.
Awesome video.
My Uncle was a passenger on this flight, RIP Unc
Very well done!
This happened just down the street from me. It devastated out town.
Damn that is sad.
yup I remember that flight there was a jamacan on that flight
a young jamaican girl..sad
SantiGoma I remember hearing it and then looking out my window to see a bright orange glow. Truly saddening when I learned what happened
oh my...so sad indeed
yes i am still here
In basic GA ground school, you failed the course if you cannot recover from a stall condition in 500 feet of a stall condition. that began on a flight condition. MAXIMUM POWER AND A NOSE DOWN CONDITION. That is a stall recovery i learned in basic training. It is needed to be said enough to become an instinct response. Any delay causes you and the aircraft to " buy the farm ".
You can get away with cobbing the power in a light aircraft but that doesn't work in something this size. There isn't enough power in something like a Cessna 172 to put the aircraft in a nose-high attitude that would make you go over the top and risk a second stall. In sophisticated aircraft like this, early recognition of a departure from the intended vertical or horizontal path is critical. This will allow the pilot to prevent the stall. If, as in this case, the aircraft stalls and a there's a stall of the left wing, the procedure is to disengage autopilot, autothrottles, and roll into a bank in the direction of the stalled wing. This will cause the angle of attack to change, change the lift vector, and only then do you ease the yoke forward to get close to 0-g, after banking to the right and then apply thrust. If the wing has stalled to the degree this aircraft's did, both pilots could push their yokes forward to the stops, and the nose would not come down. At 2:42 you can see the left wing beginning to stall. THIS is when he should have banked about 20 or 30 degrees to the left AFTER disengaging the autopilot and autothrottles, That would have caused the nose to drop, at which point he would still have full command of rudder, ailerons, and elevator, regardless of his airspeed. At 2:45 you can see the airplane is nose low but the aircraft has leveled out. It may be descending. This would be the time to come in with the power but his excessive, kneejerk response to over bank to the right abruptly sealed his fate.
The same aerodynamic rules apply if you were a bird, plane or Superman like NEO in The Matrix. Lift plus thrust => weight+drag. You must regain that lift on both wings while applying more thrust. 1 wing elevated kills the lift properties for BOTH wings until the air around the wings get back to lifting a plane with the lost aerodynamics. You still have to regain thrust ASAP. A flat spin is an aviators worst nightmare; a recovery is almost impossible because no lift and thrust can be generated in time before striking something solid. Water is like a solid at that speed.
Pilots have made " Miracle " landings because they have actually FLOWN A PLANE, instead of a simulator. Try mimicking a flat spin in a simulator. I'll bet these " computer programmers " might even fail that simulator. NOTHING beats " seat of the pants " flying. None of that " simulated " flying time " should be part of the hours given as " flying time ". I STAND BY MY COMMENTS. I DO " seat of the pants flying " and am an OLD, NOT BOLD PILOT.
Re: "1 wing elevated kills the lift properties for BOTH wings." Thats' precisely the point! You need to get the nose down and the quickest way to do that in this case would have been to roll the airplane 20-30 degrees. If you stall in a 172 and apply full power the recovery will occur provided you have enough air beneath you. The nose will not likely be above the horizon line on the pitch ladder. Try applying max power "ASAP" in a 767 (or an aircraft like a Dash-9) as the aircraft begins to stall and you could find yourself dangerously nose up, close to being outside the envelope of the aircraft and in danger of a second stall. Now, this aircraft wasn't a 767 but it was far from a light aircraft. As soon as the captain noticed the left wing begin to stall it was essential that he disengage the autopilot and if he was 20 degrees nose high roll to the left with the same degree of bank and kick in a little bit of rudder to the left. This would have caused the nose to drop as the lift vector changed. He would only have entered a spin had he kicked in full left rudder as this is the way to initiate a spin. Had he done this, he could then have had full control of the aircraft even at an airspeed less than a hundred knots. His next job would have been to roll right gradually until the aircraft was in level flight and then come in with the power until the aircraft was slightly nose low--3-5 degrees.
This is from the FAA:
" Once a stall has occurred, an airplane cannot be recovered until the wing‘s AOA is reduced, which will necessitate loss of altitude. At stall AOAs, drag is high, and the thrust available may not be sufficient to overcome the drag... .
Even though air carrier pilots are trained to use power to maintain altitude during approach-to-stall recoveries, positive nose-down control force is the necessary first step that a pilot must take once an actual aerodynamic stall has occurred. Because the application of power by itself will not recover a stalled airplane... ."
Put simply, forward yoke pressure may not be enough to lower the nose so the first task after disengaging the auto pilot is to change the lift vector by rolling GENTLY towards the stalled wing and THEN when come in with the power, but just enough to bring the nose slightly low. Give it too much power and it the nose gets a few degrees high, you find yourself barging along at 80kts on the edge of the flight envelope again.
Rolling to get the nose down is only necessary if there is a strong pitch up moment which is preventing he nose from coming down even with the stick fully forward e.g. extreme nose up trim and/or a strong pitch up caused by low mounted engines. Besides, rolling to get the nose down may not necessarily prevent a stall though, all it does is preserve airspeed, Ethiopian 409 (737) stalled and rolled left until it was pointing nearly straight down, speed reached 300 knots with the stick shaker still active because the aircraft was at still high angle of attack. Even in THIS accident, the aircraft at the end rolled to over 100 deg bank, the nose dropped to 45 deg down and the aircraft was still stalled because the AOA was above stall AOA, put there by the aft stick
The stick pusher on this aircraft would have surly had enough effort to push the nose down and break the stall in a second or 2 if it had been allowed. You have to remember that the aircraft in this case was being forced into, and held at high AOA by aft stick input, remove that aft stick input and the AOA would naturally come down due to positive static longitudinal stability, give it a push and it would come down even faster and further
The airplane is not rolled to PREVENT a stall. The stall has already occurred. It's to preserve energy in the most-direct manner by changing the lift vector. Banking in the direction of the wing closest to the horizon is not for the purpose of stall prevention, but for upset recovery. Insofar as Ethiopian 409 goes, the crew had to deal with two problems: first a nose-high initiated upset and then a nose-low upset. Each required different solutions, none really addressed in the company's sim training. Stall recognition and recovery are but not unusual attitude recovery--i.e. subsequent to a stall, 40 degrees nose low while in a 60-90 degree bank.
I live within 5 miles of the crash site and had a current teacher (at the time) on board as well as knowing 2 other victim families, one of them in my neighborhood. The whole community was shocked and devastated and was wall to wall coverage in our local papers/tv hardcore for about six months and then still covering vigorously for 2 years after and a few times a year ever since, it’s like the saga that won’t go away. Such a sad and seemingly preventable tragedy. Every so often I go and visit the memorial that is set up there and it’s nice that they did that. It’s really sobering to think that it landed on that house and that guy David had no way of knowing to get out. The whole family (mother and daughter) was in the house but only the dad died. It’s crazy to think that it could have been my house or close family or friend being that we live so close. Also somehow the neighboring houses survived and are livable to this day but that one house was completely destroyed. It’s just one of those events that I think of every so often and randomly decided to UA-cam it and I see this amazingly well done simulation video that crystalizes the final moments in a way I almost wish I didn’t know because now it’s clear the absolute horror they must have experienced before impact. Hopefully it was quick and painless. Thank you for the great video from the simulation to the video footage selection to the explanation in words with the facts. Very impressive and I look forward to checking out more content
The scary part is that you can’t stop as you board and ask the pilot for his background information. How can you pull back when you’re already in a severe nose up position?
This one was unexplainable, a Captain and an inexperienced co-pilot with a 16k salary. This is not a hindsight 20/20 thing, but they did so many basic things opposite of what is trained. The Captain kept pulling the stick back during the stall with stick shaker/pusher. The co-pilot raised the flaps during the stall making it much worse. Reaction to stalls has to be ingrained like muscle memory, push stick/yoke forward add power and don't raise flaps losing more lift.
A D is the purpose of the stick shaker to alert you to a general problem or is it something specific?
.HoneyLove. .......The stick shaker is to provide a positive alert that the wings are about to stall and you need to lower the nose NOW!!
Here's how a stall works.....a really simplified version without a bunch of technical terms.........the nose is going higher and the airspeed is going lower. This can occur at any power setting, even takeoff power. When the nose is high enough and the airspeed is low enough, the wind over the top of the wings becomes unstable. It doesn't 'stick' to the wing surface anymore and the wings will suddenly lose their ability to support the plane.
If the nose is lowered, airspeed will increase and the airflow over the wings will become smooth again, and the plane will fly normally. If the nose is not lowered or even worse, raised, the wings are not supporting the plane and the nose will fall on its own, very rapidly. The rest of the plane will follow.
Then plane is now falling as if it had no wings at all.
The only possible recovery is to lower the nose (even more than it already is) and gain enough airspeed that the wings will fly again.
One of the first things a student pilot learns is stall recovery. Your natural instinct when the nose falls is to pull back in order to raise it. This is the worst possible thing to do. You MUST go against your natural instincts and lower the nose. In fact, you need to practice stall recovery until your basic instinct becomes lowering the nose.
RR KNL that was a great description, thanks for letting me know.
I was was trying to use context clues to figure out what it meant but it was like listening to almost its own language.
yes that a stall is imminent, it vibrates loudly so you hear it and feel it and pusher pushes stick forward.
its specifically to warn of an impending stall
great vid!
Found out that the house that the plane struck was at 6038 Long Street, Clarence Center, NY. It was a nice house; you can go to Google street view and set it to the earliest date. It's not a house anymore, but a memorial site for Flight 3407. Rest in peace
TonyTheCat1 I did look on Google and it is showing an empty grassed area between two houses. Can see no memorial?
Ah, right you are. That's because the street view when the home was not there was because that picture is from 2011. The MEMORIAL came about in June 2012.
Don't you just hate it when you're on the couch watching reruns of Friends and a plane comes crashing through your ceiling?
A plane crashing into a house in the middle of the night. I can't even begin to describe the many nightmares I've had of that. Either the plane is ready to crash into my house or it passes over the house at an egregious height en route of crashing or has crashed a block or so away and I see the smoke and fire like at 3:14. That's why I can remember this crash all too well.
Great vid
Excellent flight reconstruction. I'd like to see more of your work. If there a way your viewers can support your efforts, be sure to let us know. Thank you.
He has a patreon link in the desc where you can support him.
X Pilot Is your flight rig adequate or in need of upgrading?
What is missing is the reason for the title >dead tired
Great video
It is very sad. The CVR revealed that they could not stop speaking about non-essential stuff even during final approach.
I don't understand the amount of modern fatal accidents caused by a pull back instinct on stall, is it psychological? What's going through their minds?
Feels like the on board computer systems could have saved this flight and many others if the pilots had been as passive as simply letting go of the controls.
its straight up panicking
Your mind is cloudy when you panic.
Plane is falling, you're about to tumble out of the sky. You want to stay in the sky. Normally, you do that by pulling back on the yoke to raise the nose. Habit and panic. Letting go of the controls to let the plane correct itself or dropping the nose (thus advancing closer to the ground) doesn't seem to make sense if you're in trouble...
All of these replies are fine but they sound like the reactions you would expect of passengers, not trained pilots. Their job is to override these emotions surely.
I strongly agree with you that the on-board computers should have intervened. The plane was on autopilot, the stall speed under the icy conditions was known to be 135 knots, and yet the the plane was permitted to go below this speed and inevitably stall. Even though I'm Canadian and this was a Canadian plane, I blame the manufacturer (Bombardier) for producing homicidal software for its on-board computer systems. Remarkably, this issue is NEVER discussed.
Remember this day vividly.... very sad. This accident was why minimum flight time to become a commercial airline pilot was changed to 1500 hours.
Saw a documentary on TV about this flight - she basically bored the arse of the captain talking when they both should have been concentrating on the flight.. they'd also been flying many hours before this last flight; more so than would have been allowed on a legacy airline. they were both very tired..it was mainly the captain's fault for pulling up on the yoke instead of down..a basic error you wouldn't expect from a student pilot in early training flights. God bless all those who died
Actually this was their first and only flight of the day.
OoF I suB Beacuse Of These VIDS THANKS XPILOT!
6:08 BWI Airport in Baltimore, MD. I've sat in that Arriving Flights lane for many long hours....
I remember that day very well. I was shocked to hear that a Commuter Flight had crashed on approach to BUF. In this day and age of flying, we tend to take flight safety for granted since the majority of the flight is handled by the auto pilot.This crash reaffirms the need for flight crew diligence when landing. My condolences to all of the families who lost love ones! If the Capt. had reacted correctly, the plane could have recovered from the stall without loss of life!
I was shocked looking out the window wondering what that bright orange glow was
One bit not brought up in here?
Signs of fatigue were detected on the CVR recording (multiple yawning like sounds.)
Brian Wong She sounded tired on the ATC recording.
The irrational decisions made by the crew were all as a result of ‘sleep inertia’.
That term however was not coined until after the crash of Air India Express Flight 812, 15 months later...
Alex Bellingham I hear that. Her voice was very nasal, like she was stopped up.
Really alex?? those terrible colds can keep you from flying a plane safely? ugh...these 24 yr olds...give me a Sully every time.
probably from all the hummers
NWA (Airlink) 5719 crash in HIB 15 years prior was similar to this one in several aspects... including the mere fact that they aren't discussed together very often...
Nice job.
Miraculously, two other people were in the house the plane landed on and survived.
Myself not being a pilot, I still am perplexed at the overcorretion on the banks, which always seems to lead to losing control of an aircraft in many of these kind of films. I assume that must be from the sleep deprivation and consequent panic. After seeing enough of these films I also have seen in most when the stick starts shaking it should be immediate nose down. It's like that vibrating stick seems to cause this panic reaction where the pilot want to pull up away from the ground, usually stalling the plane.
It seems the captian didn't seem to take his job very seriously from his poor testing performance and job history, in a high stakes life or death vocation where the slightest mistake can easily kill everyone under your care. I just don't understand how people can live that way. You just cannot get complacent in some professions.
live close to this crash site, gj as always.
Most people with flight sims at home can get out of stalls but not an accredited airline pilot. I know an actual plane is different to sitting at home but the same principles apply. This accident was so easy to avoid.
Amazing how many crashes occur because trained and experienced pilots do the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do in a stall.
Imagine just chilling in your home and a plane just dives into it.
a bit simmilar to XL germany flight 888t but then without ice on the wings but this crash could be simmilar like com air 3272 or american eagle flight 4141
Interesting!!!
Sad fact: Beverly Eckert, a 9/11 widow whose husband Sean died in the towers was aboard this plane. She was on her way to or from a ceremony to honor her husband and victims. 😪😪😪
To date, this is the latest fatal crash of a commercial airliner in the US, right?
Yes.
This is the most recent major U.S. passenger plane crash btw. We haven't had one in almost 10 years.
The NTSB conclusion doesn't cover why the AC became erratic in the first place. Only what the captain did after that.
I remember this when it happened, and was stunned to find out how low the pay is for these "puddle jumper" crew members. For that reason alone, I avoid these smaller planes, and so do others.
Sometimes the "suits" in aviation (the airline company bosses) seem to not care about anything but the schedule and the fuel (costs) in the operation of an passenger aircraft (or even cargo aircraft), and that can lead to over-worked pilots, and sometimes unsafe procedures in the air. Safety should ALWAYS be at the discretion of the pilot, not the company, unless they want to lose a multi-million-dollar aircraft! (There's not much to salvage when an aircraft crashes!) Especially when they're at the bottom of some ocean -- often they're lucky to salvage the FDR and CVR!
Safety always IS at the discretion of the pilot. Under the Federal Aviation Act the Pilot in Command has an affirmative duty, and has the sole and complete responsibility for the safe operation of the aircraft.
Use your ass for shitting. Not talking.
It sounds as though the NTSB didn't address the cause of the original emergency, just the incorrect response to the emergency. If icing was ruled out, what caused the plane to go nose up in the first place?
Ray's Dad Catch this vid , it shows the A/C slow for approach.... as you creep closer to slow flight the nose will pitch up ....principles of flight 101. ua-cam.com/video/lxywEE1kK6I/v-deo.html
Duncan D McGrath good link. Thanks. From the X Pilot vid I thought the nose had suddenly pitched up, causing the stall. But the linked vid shows the speed decreased steadily until the shaker kicked in.
Ray's Dad i remember when this happened I was doing contract and work on the Q400 final assy. line in Toronto . Many rumours about ice and other issues but, the CVR/FDR data was eventually released and told a grim story.
I did a lot of Human Factors training after this tragedy.
Shacari Sperley Angle of attack indicator and stall warning are parameters of the flight management system on a Q400.... the autopilot will detect rationale and fly below a stall . The pilots turned off autopilot and flew multiple stickshaker and stick pusher warnings into an aerodynamic stall ....flaps up on the edge of a stall is what ended the flight.
bout time you mensioned the flight attendants, also, girl in the cocpit? you go girl
Rip precious brave souls 😔😔 😔😔😔🙏🙏🙏🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
Raising flaps when you dont have enough lift....
What simulation do you record these videos on?
Out of curiosity, how does the NTSB determine if icing was present on anything after a crash that results in fire. I'm really interested in that part of investigations
The CVR recorded the pilots discussing the icing.
Can you make a video about helios airways Flight 522?
@XPilot can you brighten up the night scenes? They're a bit too dark and it makes it hard to see the plane.
The more of these that I watch, the less confidence I have in airline pilots. Logic tells me that nearly all are competent, but then I think about these guys.
Whoa......................
Colgan Air 3407
Fatalities : 49
Survivors : 0
Ground Fatalities : 1
Total Fatalities : 50
Interesting government's response is to require commercial pilots to have 1,500 hours flight time. Both had well over that.
This shit makes me never wanna step foot in an airport again
Whoa, whoa, whoa!! That happened so fast!
It does seem like the pilots’ faults, completely. They reacted so ridiculously and I always feel like yelling, “No! STOP!” to the pilots when they fail to deal with a stall in videos like these. It sucks that it happens so much.
Safest way to travel!
Airplane crashes into the ground in a ball of flames in Buffalo, it's February and snow if flying. How can the NTSB determine icing wasn't a factor???
it was a bombardier Q400
Such a tragedy that could have been avoided.
Today a plane from Aeromexico crash in Durango, no fatalities
Wasn't this mentioned in a Michael Moore movie?
Damn is tje steering really that sensitive? This isn't the first video where I've seen over-corrections
I’d be so pissed if I got killed from an airline crashing into my house.
LOL
Remind that there's siren I need to find.
I have never liked the ATR AN ANY COLD OR SNOWING CONDITIONS PERIOD. I would never fly in one pilot or no pilot fault. May they all R.I.P. they were all taken to soon. May God Bless them ALL.
Darren Martin this wasn’t an ATR though.
Imagine being you fucking house and a plane crashes into it and you’re dead
Anyone else watching all these videos where a nose up stall kills everyone (which is many of them) think, like I do, that it is ironic, and possibly even wrong, for the stall warn to say “Pull Up”...... no no no dont pull the nose up push the nose down!!!!! The warning tells the pilot to do the EXACT WRONG THING..... now I know pilots should know better, but historty keeps showing us that some do indeed nose further up and kill everyone.....
Wat simulator do u use
Think it's xplane 11
Interesting fact that you didn't include in the video is that one of the passengers of this flight was Beverly Eckert, a co-chair of the 9/11 Famliy Steering Committee (her husband died on 9/11). She met with President Obama six days before the accident.
WATCHING A SIMILAR ACCIDENT WITH A SIMILAR AIRCRAFT LAST EVENING, THE RULING WAS THE AIRCRAFT'S INABILITY TO FLY IN SEVERE ICING CONDITIONS. FYI IT APPEARED TO ME THE AIRCRAFT WAS CONFIGURED IN AN UNCONTROLLABLE CONDITION DUE TO ICE. THE SUBJECT AIRCRAFT I SPEAK OF WAS GIVEN "SPECIAL OPERATING PROCEDURES NOT TO FLY IN SEVERE ICING CONDITIONS."
So i'm wondering how the pilot should have reacted?
First, he should have realized that his aircraft had departed from it's intended flight path (excessively nose high), disengaged the autopilot and auto-throttles, and as the left wing dropped, banked the aircraft about 20-30 degrees to the left. This would have caused the nose to drop, the changed lift vector would have given him complete control of the aircraft. He then could have banked to the right to resume level flight and added power until the nose was slightly below the horizon.
What is wrong with that plane? It slows down and almost immediately enters into a stall?
Nothing was wrong with the aircraft. If you're not on top of deviations from your intended flight path (course or altitude), and you have the autopilot and auto-throttles engaged, when the aircraft stalls, it's anybody's guess what
the aircraft will do. Apparently, this guy either didn't notice or was complacent watching the AOA increase, the airplane stalled while the autopilot was still engaged, the left wing stalled, and the Captain was in a wrestling match with the autopilot for about 10 seconds.
The real culprit here is complacency. Below 10,000' the regs mandate you must limit conversation to the task(s) at hand. It's not a stretch to suggest these pilots had seen icing in the past as well as violated this reg with impunity.
There's an expression pilots have: "the regs are written in the blood of the dead."
An instrument approach even during marginal VFR conditions with icing conditions present is daunting enough. There's really no time to be talking about trivial things. There are checklists, often requests for runway conditions and pireps (pilot reports), and if you're making a coupled approach--as this crew certainly was--you're thinking about the possibility of a missed approach, a potential alternate airport, and always making schedule. Regionals like this crew was flying for, know how to turn the screws. More than one aircraft has wound up in a smoking hole because the crew was afraid they wouldn't stay legal with respect to duty hours or simply because the company leaned on pilots to get to the gate on time.
As I see it, though, this crew was done in by complacency and not having their priorities right.
I thought 135 k ots was too slow for approach and during icy season