Thankyou for taking the time and effort to share your knowledge, the results achieved with this method are excellent, I highly recommend it to anyone with an audyssey system, especially as you've made it all possible without any additional hardware (umik etc), you're an absolute champion.
Worked flawlessly the first time. Learning how to time/spl align speakers was one of the biggest parts of the video for me. Thanks for sharing and teaching.
@@ocaudiophile Hello again ... Regarding importing Audyssey.ady readings for speakers .. After configuring everything do I turn on/Leave on Dynamic EQ or Turn Off . I'm confused if it overwrites all the work done. Thanks
@@ocaudiophile I have one more inquiry at 41:50 you adjusted SW1 to SPL... Why do you choose that adjustment in dips ? Why not raise the sub so all dips are above the DB average / Curve ? Thanks
Thank you for all the incredibly helpful videos you put out. This one finally got me to setup my UMIK and give all your techniques a shot. This method made an immediately noticeable improvement compared to standard audessy with some minor adjustments. I still need to do some fine tuning to the target curves to match my speakers but it is worth the effort even using a “standard” target. Next up is tuning my 2.1 channel setup on my desk using your other videos!
Thank you, you didn't need to... Ideally, after the calibration is completed, it's always useful to measure the speakers with Audyssey on and check for additional adjustment requirements, especially with the subwoofer response (and LFE volume). Audyssey correction algorithms apply a technique called frequency warping where the filters focus on where Audyssey believes they're needed most and this can cause some unintended peaks here and there (usually in the low bass area). I EQ that with REW auto-EQ (one additional peak filter) and combine that with the original subwoofer custom target curve points and re-transfer the ady and then it's golden.
Measure separately and align the subs between each other with REW'S Alignment Tool. That's in fact adding a certain delay (distance) to one if the subs. I've an old video showing how. Create EQ filters in REW for the aligned sum and export to MQX. Make sure you keep the distance difference between the subs in MQX. Aligned sum finally also needs to be aligned with the rest of the speakers just like a single sub would.
It would be great if you could include the one and two subs optimizations in your next Audyssey video. Is something planned in the near future or no new methods out yet ?
2 subs directly connected to the AVR still need manual work to optimize, they are not automated by the scripts. I will do that when I have some time and probably launch a video shortly after.@@atx86
Thank you very much, my speakers were good with Audyssey already, but they came to life thanks to your UA-cam channel! atmos is now more detailed! and the bass isn't that thumpy either, just flat! I made some changes to the bass room as you also indicated. big thanks!👍👍👍
And finally, after getting it all back into the receiver... My first thoughts when testing (watching begining of Six Underground on Netflix), was wow, it seemed to be so coherent and sharp. I mean previously I had done a basic REW tweaking/adjustment on top of Audyssey results, but not to the level of detail in your video. Still need to listen to more stuff, but so far worth the multiple days I've spent learning and applying the process. Thanks again!
Please would you be so kind as to help me again? drive.google.com/file/d/1NNDt7-9WV0tzT3ado75I3AzuGwZjqnEz/view?usp=sharing I have manually completed a full measurement in REW with UMIK (DEQ at -10). I have spent many hours on it and am actually finished. But with the completely automatic processing according to the instructions, I get an impossible value for the subwoofer again (>20 m). I've tried back and forth but don't even know how to handle the impulse peaks differently than with "cross correlation align" - the automatically calculated delay is beyond good and evil. I suspect that I would just mess it up if I now manually intervene (measure the distance with the mouse in ms without a visible copy in REW). Can you please create another ADY using your method for me? I can't get it done. I also find it strange that I seem to be listening very, very quietly with the setup. The average dB value after which I aligned the EQ was only 53.6 dB according to REW. @ocaudiophile
The time difference between your closest speaker (SLA) and even the very first peak of the subwoofer system is 8.27m ( 24.11 ms). The limit for that is 6m. Even if you move your SLA and SRA further out by 1m, it will not align. You need to ditch the MiniDSP or completely re-adjust it minimizing all relative delays in it between the subs. Btw, the sub response needs to be inverted.
So, I've now completely omitted the Mini-DSP. I hope I get useful values now. But, and I haven't understood this so far, how do I proceed with 2 subwoofers connected directly to the Denon (4700H)? Until now, I only had one virtual sub. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lRooIJYEgB0qeysPlOs9MnspX426msEp?usp=sharing I've done a new Audyssey calibration with the 2-sub setup. Then I uploaded the Perfect Speaker version and measured both subs at 3 different points (individually). But what's next? Could you please describe specifically for 2 subs connected to the receiver? Do I need to manually adjust the ADY (time delay between both subs)? Do I just do an X-Correlation Alignment between 3 measurements for one, then for the other, and then combine the results from both again? Can I use the alignment tool with both sub measurements in the receiver? What about the data I have to add to the excel? Exported mesurements were 3 as SW10,11,12. Do I have to use SW1 and SW2 in the Excel, which Data are needed to be added in there? Same data for both? Sorry, I can imagine that this is tedious@@ocaudiophile
Audyssey keeps relative volume and distance levels between the subs and creates one EQ filter for the sum of both subs with those settings. Easiest way is to keep these relative settings and just create the EQ filter yourself with the method for SWMIX but ideally you can align the subs between each other better than AUdyssey with REW's Alignment Tool and use thaat sum (Aligned Sum) as your SWMIX response and the filters for that to the ady. However the way relative distance and trim values are kept in the ady vary between different receiver models and I am not entirely certain which one will work for yours. I will have a look when I can but a bit busy this evening. @@media_marc
Is your ady file as Audyssey created or is it manipulated by the scripts already? I am trying to understand how your AVR reads sub timing differences.@@media_marc
Hey, at 29:57 you add all SPL offsets except the first one to the C channel. Is that an error? It doesn't seem correct to me as you are adding the first offset to the FL channel.
Align SPL will move all responses to a common level so every channel will require an SPL offset. It's cross core align operation where a selected channel to which others are time aligned, will not require a time delay offset.
@@ocaudiophileThanks for the reply, keep up the Work! And yes, I understand that, I don't know how else to describe it, look at my timestamp for 10 seconds. I mean the measurement tool. You move the measurement FL with the SPL offset once, then you move the measurement C up and down and up again mulitple times and all other channels not once. But i have also another question: I have now transferred the target filters back to my avr and created a measurement after importing with REW. However, the result is not what I expected after filtering. Apart from the db adjustments, hardly anything has happened. In the MultEQ app, however, the curve is correct. You calculate a result from the filter at the end, but unfortunately there are no final control measurements in your videos, it seems to me that MultiEQ hardly corrects at all what we would expect. Did you ever did a control measurement?
Audyssey filters have some limits ie cannot apply correction more than a total of 20dB to any channel inc. the speaker volume setting, implements a frequency warping technique to focus limited number of FIR taps (1024 per ch) to where it's needed most and compromises areas outside it. But still, these filters should work very close to what's intended in general. You might have set Audyssey to "Flat" or "L&R bypass" which will bypass all custom filters. They only work in "Reference" mode.@@sheggy012
I was probably too obsessed with getting the bumps out of it in 1/48 Filtering. These are most likely caused by my poor room acoustics and can't be fixed with EQ alone. When I look at the whole thing in psychoacoustic it does what it's supposed to. A big thanks for the tricks and the scripts to solve the whole thing without a 200€ license. Keep it up!@@ocaudiophile
I honestly can’t believe it! Will watch the video later but I had to comment immediately on the fact you finally conceded/threw in the towel and bought MultEQ-X! Thank you so much!
Hi OCA, wonderful stuff! On my 6th time rewatching this and making adjustments. Friendly suggestion: I think for your next video everyone would appreciate if you go into details and step-by-step instructions on how to create personal target curve for your own speakers. You briefly touched up on it in this video, but I think it deserves a full dedicated lesson. That's "next level stuff". Also, perhaps, detailed tips and tricks on bouncy atmos-enabled speakers setup, manual sub distance correlation / offset, other oddities, etc., etc. :)
You're right, all noted for the next tutorial. I created my speakers' sepc target curve by using an online polynomial graphing tool: www.desmos.com/calculator/kreo2ssqj8
Thanks for the very cool and helpful guidelines! I've just downloaded the latest files and tried to run the MQX converter however I never get a prompt for saving the results, it seems to be stuck at the "Please wait..." step. Ive resaved my MQX files again, tried on both Mac and PC but still stuck at the same Please wait step... Anything I might be missing? Thanks!
Your browser might be blocking downloads. Try to change its security settings. Only one of the supplied scripts is for mqx and it works fine. Thanks for the super thanks btw. You didn't have to. 👍
@@ocaudiophile I know, but its well earned! Your in deapth videos have really been inspirational in a nerdy and cool way :) Thanks again! Regarding the error - I tried different browsers with different security settings (chrome - no protection for exampe) and no luck. I see in Dev Console that there seems to be an error with parsing (looks like there might be an error in my MQX file...although MultiEQ-X have no problem opening and re-saving it again): VM313:1296 Uncaught (in promise) SyntaxError: Unexpected non-whitespace character after JSON at position 4932610 at JSON.parse () at decodeAndConvert (ExtractAllMeasurements_mqx.html:43:29) I will try fixing the MQX or will end up just doing REW measurements. UPDATE: JSON error found and fixed. The REW measurements exported and saved! :) But now Im failing to extract MIC Calibration File. Getting the following error: Create Custom Audyssey Mic Response.html:51 Uncaught DOMException: Failed to execute 'atob' on 'Window': The string to be decoded is not correctly encoded. at decodeFloat16Values (file:///Users/leon/Downloads/AudysseyX/Create%20Custom%20Audyssey%20Mic%20Response.html:51:21) at reader.onload (file:///Users/leon/Downloads/AudysseyX/Create%20Custom%20Audyssey%20Mic%20Response.html:25:31)
Thank you for yet another great method! Just an FYI, the reference curve gets added automatically to any custom curve loaded in the app. I always wondered why I'm missing highs. You can see this when looking at the room correction result. The correction curve versus expected/loaded is always offset by the amount of the reference curve.
It's the "High Frequency Rolloff" setting in the app that causes this. I have provided its inverted version in one of the Audyssey video descriptions (can't remember which one). Also, some users claimed that, when they change its value to 0 in the app ("enCustomTargetCurve" setting - normally either 1 or 2), they get rid of it. My SR6015 Marantz though is muting completely if I do that.
It was discussed earlier in the comments. You need to apply it twice and to each filter so quite a bit of work. There's not much we do at these very high frequencies so I didn't force it. @@horatiud.5976
Hey OCA, so I just tried putting "0" in the "enCustomTargetCurve" setting and my Denon AVR accepted it. However, I do not see or hear any difference with or without it. Is there a way to test it visually or audio-wise to see if there's any difference. Where do I look or test it out? Thanks a bunch! @@ocaudiophile
@ocaudiophile Can you please clarify your volume and dynamic EQ settings while measuring? In an earlier video, I got the impression that you advise to set the volume to the maximum level you listen to, and then use the "reference level offset" function to account for any deviation from that volume downwards from there (5, 10 of 15 db). At the same time, it looked like you actually had "reference level offset" set to 10 dB while measuring, and at 56:16 in this video I got the same impression. The maximum level I listen at is -20 dB. To my understanding, I should measure at that volume level with "reference level offset" set to 0 dB (=off), and then use "reference level offset" 15 dB if I chose to listen at -35 dB etc. Is that correct?
REW measurements should be made with Audyssey set to "Reference", Dynamic EQ on and receiver volume level at your preferred level (ie -20dB). Reference level offset will effect how much Dynamic EQ will intervene for levels above and below -20dB. I personally prefer DEQ effect at 5dB. I have suggested setting it to 10dB elsewhere so as to allow stronger or lighter DEQ effects possible. As long as you keep DEQ ref offset at the same level during all REW measurements, it's fine. And its effect is only audible when volume level is NOT at -20dB!
@@ocaudiophile Thank you. I thought reference level offset only worked downwards, i.e. for volume levels below reference. Are you sure it works upwards as well? If measuring at your maximum listening level, shouldn't reference level offset be set to 0 dB? Otherwise, the level you measured at will not be you reference point?
After calibration with DEQ on and ref level whereever it was, the speakers' response for the measured level will be the target curve. Depending on the ref offset, volumes above and below the measured level will differ less or more from that curve. DEQ is effective up to 0dBFS (100dB) and almost nobody will measure or listen their system at that level.@@isak6626
@@ocaudiophile Right. But the span around the volume you measure at is +/- 15 dB at most right, not 15 dB down and 15 dB up if you have ref level offset det to 0 dB? So if you measure at -20 dB with ref level offset at 0 dB, you can only go down to -35 dB without having DEQ messing up your response. Any volume above -20 dB (say -10 dB) will mess up your response, or?
I am currently running a 5.1 setup and will upgrade it to Atmos 5.1.4 soon. I'm using a Cinema 50 with external 2 channel amp and the question is if I still need to apply the method you explained at 3:56. Until now I have been only using the 9.1 instead of 11.1 preset. Do you have a link or video on where to read up on the Atmos decoder on the different height speaker positions.
Thank you OCA - your content is excellent! I have successfully completed this procedure. When importing the target curves into MQX would you suggest using the auto 'cut off' modes for each speaker or disable. I think audessey may use its filters to match the detected rolloff of the speaker. The other options are for manual (and you can set the order) or auto. Also in filter settings you can manually set the lower (and upper) EQ limits, do you have any thoughts about the low limit setting in particular? All the best!
Thank you for your big contribution to community. My question is, what to do when sub impulse distance is large? My sub is 3m from MLP, but first peak in impulse is 11m from referent central speaker impulse. Same is with my REW measurements and with imported Ady file. Playing with sub phase just adds to the delay. (SVS SB2000PRO)
Sub-woofer circuits or some interface in-between like a MiniDSP are known to add extra delays which you see as extra distance but 11m to the first impulse peak is quite extreme. Are you sure it's the first peak but not the highest peak because otherwise you can adjust to an earlier peak and problem will be mostly solved.
@@ocaudiophile Sub has direct connection to avr. I'm looking at the peek that REW selected with cross corr align (first on -100%) there are two before but significantly smaller, +55% (3m closer, 7m ), and -40% (5m closer, 6.m). Thank you so much for replying.
@@ocaudiophile So in cases like this should we target closer peak at 5m -40% or 7m at 55%? I'm having really hard time to integrate sub for LP at any crossover. What would you select as compromise?
Compare 1/1 smoothed Group Delay graphs in Overlays. All speakers and the subs should be in sync in the high frequencies. You can measure the delay required by mouse right click method and it will also correspond to one of the impulse peaks of the subs. @@dankocrnkovic5207
Thanks again for all your work sir! A lot has changed in your workflow (and rew updates) since these videos: "Dolby Atmos Height Channels Measurement & Calibration with REW" + "Dolby Atmos Manual Tuning Complementary Tutorial". Would love an updated, clear and concise video for those of us who wants to calibrate our surround system without Audyssey and just with the graphic EQ in the processor. Or do you prefer the precision of the Audyssey-workflow? I asked you some time ago, and you answered that you think the pure graphic EQ-workflow sounds more natural than the Audyssey-way. (I also think it is less effort doing it this way :D). I know we always learn new things - so if I asked you today, what is your preferred method for calibrating your surround system for multiple seatings with a denon/marantz receiver and a umik + a minidsp for subs at your disposal?
There's not much else to be done on the manual calibration front as the graphic equalizers are still the same old ones in new models besides there's no sub EQ unless your sub has its own. Why don't you try both and compare?
Hi OCA, really enjoying to watch every new tutorial as they really help to dip deeper and better understand the overall matter. Thanks for your tremedious effort putting in to serve teh community. So far one thing which isn´t entirely clear and leads to different outcomes is prior sub db offset (-10 db or 0db) setting. It doesn´t seem to make a difference to my Marantz cinema 40 if I measure the Sub 0-24000 or just 0-250Hz (which should then be 10 db hotter according to my understanding as then recoginsed as LFE Signal). Therefore my question is how to foolproof set and measure this correctly to get the right outcome which follows the target curve afterwards.
I am not entirely certain but I think, at least recently, LFE +10dB boost is only encoded for Atmos and DTS HD signals. Probably after a recent firmware update, similar to your experience, I don't experience LFE boost with regular REW sweeps, either (independent of the frequency range measured). Although, I cannot clearly understand why would they change firmware to stop that if they did, I am relaxed that 10dB is so huge (it's nearly 4 times the volume), it's impossible not to detect an error of that amount easily by the ear.
You want to correct for the room (reflections) below 500Hz and correct for the speaker (eliminate reflections) above 500Hz. Truncating the IR window size aims to achieve that above 500Hz.
I have two subwoofers and I didn't use REW to measure, I used your html file converter with my mqx file so I only have a single SWMIX measurement file instead of two separate sub files. Should I follow the same aligning and other processes with just the SWMIX channel, or do I need to get two individual sub files? Also I believe my Denon amp is using 300m/s as the speed of sound instead of 343 as for example when I measure my FL in real life it's 2.70m vs Audyssey's 2.41. Am I right in saying that I should still use the speaker distances that my Audyssey generated instead of the real distances?
Check the notes in this link for SWMIX configurations: drive.google.com/file/d/14gm10Ls-H_K4DxuzWo_m_dDBzdZEgj4b/view As long as you change speed of sound settings in REW/Preferences to 300m/s, you can use Audyssey distances and what you calculate in REW "as is" in your set up.
@@ocaudiophile Hi OCA, thanks for your answers! I've come to the end of the process and I'm looking at my MultEQX Filter Settings page and all the orange "After" speaker responses look good apart from my sub which looks very wrong, it looks like it will remove all the bass under 50hz. Where have I gone wrong? I think I'm still struggling to understand what to do with my SWMIX...
I didn't look at SWMIX detail in MQX files but MultEQ editor has a relative distance and volume setting fro the second sub and one traget curve edit points property (EQ) for the first sub. You'll need to accept Audyssey's trim and volume leves for the second sub and apply the method for the first sub. But the optimal way is to measure both subs separately in REW for distance and volume at the LP. After adjusting each sub's distance correctly (and volume if necessary) measure both subs together. You can try switching the phase of one sub at this stage and pick the one with the best response. Then you should manually enter the relative trim and volume leves for the second sub in the correct settings in MQX (I don't know where they are since I don't have any mqx sample file with two subs) and the EQ settings for the first sub (which in fact is EQ for both subs together) as REW filter export in the method. PS Two subs is very complicated with Audyssey and I have seen odd volume adjustments with surround speakers with Dynamic EQ on the second sub.. I ended up removing one of mine.
Thanks so much for producing content like this for the community? I am new to the home theater scene. I have a 5.1 setup with a denon 760h with an Audyssey mic. I was wondering which video would be best for me to try and follow along? I believe there are two hour long videos on your channel regarding calibration using REW. Thanks!
Since you don't use Atmos, You can use your PC as your 5.1 sound source and with free convolution engines like Equalizer APO (for Windows) or Camilla DSP ( for Mac), you can achieve amazing results. For standalone Audyssey calibration, ART video is great, just invest in MultEQ Ediitor app for Iphone or Android (about 20 quid). You might want watch "Optimize your Immersive Audio" video first for some basics.
Hi OCA. Tested the MultEQ-X curves extractor on 07 30 2024 : It works, but the naming of the files has become bad. The channel name is still OK. But the number is now a combinaison of "random figures". Measurement point #1 seem to be first. For the others ... You have to perform a visual comparison curve by curve between the MultEQ-X GUI and REW to find back your children ;-)
Thanks again for a very informative video! A few questions/comments: 1. Some of us use a miniDSP 2x4 HD for our subs (you as well?), a video showing your you would deal with that in a Audyssey/Atmos setup would be fantastic. 2. In the middle of this video you mention that you're not doing FDW and psycho acoustic smoothing this time, but later on you do use windowing and psycho acoustic smoothing, so it's still something you recommend right, just a different way of windowing? 3. You have quite a few videos on Audyssey now, and they differ somewhat. If this your latest approach, or is there still something in the previous videos that you would recommend doing for those of us that use the mobile app?
1. There are lots of videos and sites explaining multiple sub adaptation with MiniDSP. I removed my MiniDSP and the second sub from my system. The delays MiniDSP introduces are not manageable by Denon/Marantz speaker distance limits and I can now separately equalize two subs with directional sub mode if I want (that is not in my receiver's menu but can be manipulated with MultEQ Editor app). I will make a video on that at some point if it helps. 2. 20/200Hz is best be eqaulized with 1/48 smoothing, for the rest I still use pa smoothing. FDW is just another way of applying smoothing to remove the effects of reflections and it sure helps the results but this latest method gave the highest clarity (C80) in my tests. 3. EVery new video adds up new information, introduces new REW tools and unfortunately but in fact for the good, some times changes the info given in the past. I try to update description notes and links in the old videos on a best effort basis and I can't really do more. This is a hobby I share knowledge/experience on at the end of the day. I have a totally different day job and zero income from this channel ;)
@@ocaudiophileplease do video on directional sub mode with MultiEQ for two Sub. Will like to get rid of Mini DSP if we can have better timing w my 6015. Thx
Directional sub is only good if you have two subs left and right equal distance from the LP ie by the main speakers and if you'll listen to only stereo because LFE channel is produced from both subs and there's no EQ for the summation of the subs in the system.
Is it best to use custom resolution 48 when exporting as text for the target curve? I use "resolution of measurement" because it includes more detail. Does 48 mean 48khz? Or a certain resolution that Audyssey prefers?
Okay, Audyssey is limited to 1/12 octave, so after reading that, this is why Psychoacoustic smoothing sounds so good. Because it only uses 1/3 and 1/6 octave of detail. This is a good to know.@@ocaudiophile
First of all, thanks for these comprehensive tutorials. Really means a lot. However, when i take my meassurements i'm unable to cross-correlation align my meassurements between the meassured postions (L0, L1, L2..). Most of the peaks seem to barely move and are still (relatively) far apart, though some do align. It looks like your meassurements align pretty perfectly. I have watched your preferences-settings a thousand times to check, but they seem to match. I'm using a X3500H receiver with the audyssey mic, but meassured in REW with the built-in REW sweep, using acoustic timing. Do you have any idea of how one could "debug" this? :) Thanks a ton!
This is quite unexpected. Cross corr align may seldom get it wrong if the impulse responses are too different with each other but I wouldn't expect that between measurements of the same speaker. There must be major differences between the measurements and I don't readily have an explanation for this. Can you share your mdat file?
@@ocaudiophile - Wow, quick reply! Thanks for taking the time for this. I would really love to learn what i'm doing wrong here. Here you go, this is uncalibrated and just ordered: drive.google.com/file/d/1Xjvi58zJcQ61ClZ0R0lpdZ9tQZB0Z0UT/view?usp=drive_link I have only measured 3 positions, LP, left of LP and right of LP
I am not sure what has caused it but your L0, SLA0 and SRA0 measurement impulses start in negative time. Still, cross corr align is working correctly with L responses, moving L1 and L2 over to L0. The vector average of all 3 is a good representation of your left speaker, you can generate correction filters for it. If you want perfect alignment, "remove IR delays" before averaging but the difference will be negligible.
@@ocaudiophile I noticed the negative time myself, and thought it was strange. It tried to push forward and got some decent results either way I think. My room is basically untreated so I know I’m fighting a lot against that.
Ideally, I'd remeasure with repeated measurements at the same position eliminating absurd responses and vector average the rest. There's a strange frequency response behavior at around 60Hz in your measurements, could be AC line related. But, you can safely "remove IR delays" from any response before correction, it will not have an effect on the response shape for which you want to create filters.
I wish you - or someone - could write a script to decode/extract the information from .dat files from the old Denon/Marantz receivers. When I open mine in notebad, it looks like a bunch of jibberish, but it would be nice to be able to decode it to possibly change target curves/etc without having to upgrade to a newer receiver for the MultEQ Editor or MultEQ-X.
Thanks for putting all these videos out! But there’s so many that all seem similar. What video would you recommend fallowing to calibrate a 7.2.4 system using a x6700 and editor app
Hey OCA I have followed your tutorial through all the steps and am ready to transfer the ady file to my receiver, but the multeq editor app keeps getting stuck in the middle of "analyzing room data" and the progress bar doesn't move at all even though I've been waiting for almost 10 minutes. Has anyone else encountered this problem and do you know what causes it?
check the ady file in the json editor and compare it with the original one. You can see both side by side. Probably you didn't export filters with comma separated values or your Excel regional settings caused a syntax problem. If you can't solve it, share your ady and I will fix it.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for response to me so quickly. I've actually compared ady files in the json editor, but I can't see where I'm going wrong. I can only ask you to help me see what's wrong and fix it for me. Thanks again! Link to ady files: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o5D0xzFwjI0qXxOgHRPdL4Al--lf6ekw?usp=sharing One more question, how to apply Excel and calibrated ady files at the same time in the receiver, is it to run the Excel ady file corresponding speaker preset first to apply the speaker distance and other parameters, and then run the calibrated ady file corresponding speaker preset to apply the eq?
Can you also share an original (untouched) Audyssey (.ady) measurement? UploadXLSpeakerSettings2ady.html script uploads Excel file data (saved as .csv) to the ady!
When I first create default "perfect speaker" ady file in audyssey app after 3 measurements, do I select "dynamic EQ on" at the end before finalizing and before exporting to my PC? I will be using my own REW measurements (with DEQ on). But the question is: does the perfect speaker ady file need to have DEQ on or off or it does not matter if REW measurements are used and applied over it later after calibration and filters?
Once the perfect speaker version of ady file is transferred to the AVR, Audyssey will not apply any correction. Select Audyssey Reference in the AVR and select DEQ on to whatever settings of your taste. Then take measurements with REW. You can also tick DEQ on in the ady file before you transfer.
Let me make sure I understand this because it's still bugging me. Sorry for complex question, but please bear with me...I created "perfect speaker" ady with EDITOR APP and then I enabled "DEQ ON". Then, I ran my own measurements with REW while AVR was set to "DEQ on" and Audyssey on "reference". Then, I applied all filters and distances / crossovers to the "perfect speaker" ady with your scripts which is now calibrated and sent to EDITOR app before final upload to AVR. In this final step, when I sent the final file to EDITOR APP, the DEQ became "unselected". So, my question is: do I slide "Dynamic EQ" setting back to "ON" in EDITOR APP Audyssey settings BEFORE final upload to AVR? Thank you so much BTW, you rock! @@ocaudiophile
@ProwlerIM and @OCA, I have a question on taking REW measurements. Should I take REW measurements with REW sweeps or the file OCA has provided? Also, do I need to change crossovers while taking speakers measurement and subwoofer measurements? I am trying to understand if speaker measurements from 0 Hz - 2.4Khz includes sub + speaker response?
You cannot measure Atmos channels with REW's own sweeps. The PCs are limited to 7.1 floor channels. My Atmos sweeps are created to solve that problem. Measure each speaker on its own without subwoofer. With Audyssey, that's the only way as it applies crossover after correction. For stereo systems that can process convolution files (there are videos on this method), measuring mains with subs active and then applying filters to the combination is the right way though. @@spatel30
Hey, OCA, does the Experimental MultEQ-X mic calibration html not work? I don't see a button to process the .mqx file. I can upload the file, but nothing to process it.
Another wonderful video, and highly informative, but I do have a few questions about the differences between making the corrections from the MultEQ app vs taking measurements in REW and correcting from that. For the MultEQ app method: If I am understanding this correctly, you run Audyssey, take measurements of the first three positions, but before finalizing the calibration in Audyssey, do you enable DEQ at the point where it asks you to enable DEQ/MRC/etc... or do you leave DEQ off, and do all of the correcting/filters from the extracted/converted ady file? For the method of taking all of your measurements in REW: Is the process the same as far as running Audyssey to get the three positions, download the ady from the app to your computer, then extract/convert it to perfect speaker ady file, except you then upload the perfect ady file to the AVR, and then take your REW measurements from the same three positions (or as close as possible) with DEQ enabled set to the MV you have decided as your listening level? I'm asking because at no point in the video are there any measurements taken in REW, the whole process appears to be applying corrections/filters to the extracted/converted ady file, then uploading that to the AVR once it's all done (not a complaint, merely an observation).
Using Audyssey measurements is an obligation for Mac and Auro 3D users as they cannot play Atmos channel sweeps to measure these speakers in their systems. Since these measurements are not taken with DEQ on, the correction filters will also be accurate only with DEQ off setting. DEQ will massively change the bass and HF response at 75dB which is the level Audyssey takes the measurments. PC users with Dolby Atmos systems are flexible. They can take their own measurements (inmclduign Atmos channels) in REW with their own mics (or Audyssey mic with the calibration file). They still need the MultEQ Editor app to clear all Audyssey measurments and any AUdyssey correction in the receiver. But they can take theri measurements at the level they prefer and with the settings they prefer which includes all variations of DEQ. As long as the target curve and filters are produced with DEQ, they will work as intended at the measurement volume level and DEQ will help positively with different volume levels. You can find details for REW measurement method in Supreme Audyssey video: ua-cam.com/video/g26gbFdAIxE/v-deo.html
Got a new AVR today- didn't want to pay for MEQ-X. So following guide- There is no "Custom Distance" in my ADY using Json editor. When opening ADY with your converter it gives a new ADY with the measurements. That ADY has Custom Distance of 0. Im also using 6 heights FH/TM/RH so im assuming I can just add that to the excel sheet lol
Congrats on your purchase. Custom settings only show up after you edit something in the app. The scripts will add them regardless. Some apps require distance(not custom distance) setting to be non-zero, if the ady gives error after updates, fill up distances with custom distance values. You can enter your custom speaker names to XL. It understands every standard Atmos/Auro speaker combination.
Hi OCA, just a few comments: The MultiEQ App only allows to set the crossovers per pair. How can I set individual crossovers per speaker? Thorough Json? Another issue is that the "MultEQ Editor app Excel Speaker Settings uploader" doesn't assume the settings that are in the "csv" file. The way that I bypass that was doing the settings manually in the MultiEQ all. The results are awesome and the Dr Olive Toole Target has a more realistic and smother sound.
Individual crossover setting per speaker is not available with these receivers and shouldn't be needed anyway. I didn't understand the problem with the csv file?
What I meant is that the Browser script did not change the settings in ady file according with the csv file. So I had to change it manually in the MultEQ App (volume l, distances, speaker size). Maybe I've done something wrong.
OCA, thank you so much for all your amazing work. I have a few questions which I thought might possibly also assist others who might also be newbies and in a similar position; hopefully my comments/questions make sense! I have a Denon AVC X-6500H configured in an Auro 3D setup with 7.2.4 speakers. I've completed all of the adjustments as per this latest process. I used your Atmos files for TFR/TFL/TRR/TRL channels; but assigned those results in MultiEq editor (and your spreadsheet) as FHL/FHR/RHL/RHR so as to enable Auro 3D in my receiver. I have 2 subs both powered via my Kef Kasa500 sub amp, they are positioned directly below the left and right front speakers and I have used SWmix to equalise the pair, whilst measuring their distances etc independently. The results for both were very similar. My speakers are all Kef Architectural speakers, so all either in wall or in ceiling (Fronts Ci3160RL-THX; Centre Ci4100QL; 2 x Ci200Qsb THX subs with a Kasa500 amp; 4x Ci160QL for surrounds; and 4 x Ci160QR in the ceiling). Having completed the process the results are amazing, however I wanted to ask where to go next? I have remeasured the speakers (5x each at the LP, and Cross correlated/Vector averaged). The results look pretty good (not sure how to share these with you?), however they all appear 6-8 Db higher than the house curve/predicted results (initial measures x final filters) and not as flat as hoped. Is this to be expected, or have I possibly done something wrong? Would the next step be to repeat the process again, and aggregate the results with the initial Multi EQ filters/distances etc? Separately, as a Roon user I have been looking at your "Digital Speaker and Room correction workshops" and Roon community threads; I am wondering how these convolution filters in Roon might work alongside what I've done in Audysey MultiEq to improve things further for my 2 speaker (+subs) music playback setup through my Mojo2 DAC? I'm assuming the 3rd filter in that process is the same as I have already been through above and is already factored into my Audysey setup, but are the other 3 filters something I should try in a home cinema setup? Do they all make sense to try with in wall speakers? Looking at the detail in this process I am assuming the phase adjustments etc are not something that this MultiEq process has touched? Apologies for the longwinded/round about post; I've (un)fortunately been bitten by the bug and don't quite no where to go next in an effort to get the best possible results (and not make things worse). I'd love to share my results so far if that's in anyway helpful? Many thanks Kevin
Audyssey cannot do phase correction and its EQ filters are limited to 1024 taps. With Roon, you can easily process all kinds of filters (like VBA filters, crossover phase/port phase corrections, etc) for a stereo set up. My stereo amp is connected to the front pre-outs of the AVR and simultaneously connected to a PC/DAC with Roon. Leave the AVR surround setup to Audyssey and optimize stereo setup with Roon using the methods in the workshops (also the more recent phase correction video will be useful). For Auro 3D, the method intends to use Audyssey's own measurements. I don't have Auro and don't know how you could measure all Auro speakers with REW and apply the method. Audyssey measurements taken at 8 close proximity positions with the stock Audyssey mic will be good enough for a descent calibration though. You can share google drive links here if you really need to. Anything else will be deleeted by YT.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you that’s really helpful. Just on the Auro 3D setup; why can’t I configure the Amp as Auro 3D before following your above process in MultiEq to create a perfect speaker file. Then take measurements from REW with UMIK and your Dolby Atmos sweeps. I then rename the height speaker results to be Auro3D compliant eg: rename the Atmos TFR measurement as FHR for the MultiEq file. Doing it this way seems to allow me to have an Auro 3D configuration and measure all the channels through REW (using your Atmos mapped sweeps). Am I missing something or should this give the correct results; or is there something fundamental about the Atmos sweeps that means they aren’t compatible with Auro 3D. Thanks Kevin
Maybe you could. Actually someone in these comments once claimed there's a way to setup Auro configuration with all Atmos sweeps but I just don't have the system to test it. The sweeps are produced with Dolby Atmos renderer and have no relevance to Auro 3D at the source that's why I was a bit cautious. @@MrRobertsonk
@@ocaudiophile Thanks. I’ll give it a try; logically all I’m doing is distance, Volume and time aligning the speakers using sweeps; so that part should not matter as the atmos sweeps and REW sweeps deliver the same data as I understand it. Equally room EQ from the sweeps data should be fine for those height channels. The only difference as I can see is how the amp/processor sends signals to those speakers post calibration, and for that to be Auro3D you have to “kid” the amp that your front and back ceiling speakers are actually Height speakers. I’m sure the effect won’t be 100% perfect, but my Kef ceiling speakers are pretty omnidirectional so the effect should hopefully be pretty accurate.
One further question on the Roon and stereo setup side. I don’t have a separate Amp for my audio so will be using the front L and R (+ subs) from my AV receiver for audio playback. On the basis I complete the multiEq corrections for distance, volume and EQ before moving onto your more detailed phase filters etc; am I correct that it’s still worth creating a further EQ filter for Roon along with the other 3 filters? If I’m understanding your first response you’re saying the EQ via Audesey is good, but can be much further enhanced using the Roon filters? Thanks again. Kevin
Hi OCA! You nailed it again! I've been using the procedures that you taught in your tutorial video "Optimize your Immersive Audio: Atmos and Auro 3D calibration for Mac/PC using Audyssey measurements!". My system never sound so good! 😁 I don't have MultiEq-X. Does this new procedures also can be applied with MultiEq X32 with better results? Thanks a lot!
@@ocaudiophileI believe that my Receiver (Denon 8500HA) measures de speed of sound at 300ms. Your Excel file uses 343ms. Using the Right Window size, with 343ms, will affect my sound or is just the same basic mathematical result?
Heads up.. The comma delaminated files would not import to Multeq-X the needed to be tab delaminated.. I fixed mine by opening excel and removing the phase then saving and a tab delimited txt
@@ocaudiophile yep redid everything tonight as I wanted to make some more changes (align subs using your other guys etc) Got to say my setup sounds better than ever!! Thank you for your work.. your extractor for multeq-x etc are game changers for me.. Even though I have a umk1 this just makes it so much easier !
Awesome Vids OCA !!... As a laymen to this I understand its a learning curve , but with each video you change up recommendations etc .. If I was going to follow a video to apply this to my 7.2.4 Atmos system which video would you use or combination of ? Including having two subs front and rear of room with miniDSP 2x4 HD . Thanks.
@@ocaudiophile I finally completed my OCA Configuration .. WOW what an amazing experience ... One inquiry though... REW says my distance for sub should be 16.47m... obviously not possible in AVR capped at 7.38m . However I do use a MiniDSP 2x4HD w/dual subs. I used your other video to align them already. Could I add delay to both subs splitting the difference of 9.09m to make up for what the AVR wont accept? Or would that mess up the configuration/OCA'd ady file the AVR now uses ? FYI One detail is that currently my Rear sub was best in alignment with a 0 delay .to my Front Sub
This is a but complicated but I am sure you can do it. Go to Overlays/Group Delay graph and select all speakers and subs. Smooth everything to 1/1 (or physcoacoustic). You will see that after a certain frequency (above 1000Hz) they will all have a straight line going all the way to 20kHz. And you will also see that subwoofer lines are above the speaker lines. Now, with the mouse right click method measure the distance from the subwoofer line to the speakers' line. This is the optimal distance offset you need to apply to your sub. You will see that this is much lower than 16 metres and doable in the receiver settings, Also in the Overlays/Impulse graph, this will coincide with one of the subwoofer peaks. You can do fine adjustments there if you wish.
Hello OCA, Yesterday, when I measured again, I noticed that a few certain filters were not working and some elevations were still present. However, the Q factor for these was also 35 or 40. Could that be a reason, since MultEQ X can only calculate filters with a Q factor of up to 10?
Q factors of 35-40 at bass frequencies are obviously too high for Audyssey. The filter resolution will simply not suffice. Check physcoacoustic smoothing and if the elevations are no longer there, don't worry too much.
I'm currently running your "Supreme Audyssey Calibration" and it sounds great. 2 questions: Will I hear a difference if I try this one? Is your Manual Calibration better or worse than either of these? I have no Atmos. 5.1 only. Thx!
The more recent the video, the better and easier the method due to REW and method improvements. This one includes scripts which accelerates the procedure massively.
Hi, OCA. I haven't watched this video but wanted to thank you for all the other videos. I'm still working through the first video and making FIR filters for Roon. Starting to get the hang of it and OMG, it seems like I've purchased new, more expensive speakers and a new DAC. The clarity and smoothness of the music are greatly improved! My only fear is that I will become an OCA! Quick question. I've used RePhase to correct my Aria 926 speakers but have a second system with KEF LS50 Metas. Would they need RePhase as the drivers are concentric and I think therefore already in phase?
Thanks. You need to check Kefs phase response to be sure. It's the network that causes shifts not necessarily the position of drivers. Even some active monitors need xo phase correction.
Hey OCA! You replied to a few of my posts in a forum, thanks! I have multiple questions/comments.. I'll separate each one into a new comment... First, I could not get the 1M sweeps to play correctly in height speakers no matter what configuration, HOWEVER, your 256k sweeps played perfectly. I was using VLC in both cases, and my Denon 4700H had to be in Atmos or Auro mode to work. I verified by physically going to each speaker to feel and observe the drivers moving, and I also would disconnect the wiring to the speaker to confirm. I discovered this issue only after running a full set of sweeps, only to find that the Front and Rear Top speaker were both playing at same time, even with the different fiiles. I would run the 256k vs 1M back to back and verified that only the 256k sweeps worked... also I tried every single 1M sweep just in case one of them would work for the height speakers. Comments? Is it possible there is something funny in the VLC files vs the WAV files?
It's been many months since I posted these sweeps and noone to this day had this complaint so it's strange. Did you check if the problem persists with the newer lossless True HD Atmos sweeps in this ua-cam.com/video/xnzyF6Z2D74/v-deo.html video?
Unless you have different versions of the 1M mkv sweeps, those are the ones I used. Who knows, I'll try again, there is lots in audio chain that could go wrong, not the least of which is Windows 10!
I just now downloaded again your lossless mkv files from the "Dolby Atmos REW Sweeps" and the TRR file plays on both Right Top(height) speakers (both front and rear), as does the TFR file. Your 256k length mp4 file work correctly. I can't play the mkv in WMP to see if VLC is the problem. Don't know what to say about no one else having this issue, but I only realized it after getting pretty far into the process, and entering all the spreadsheet numbers and discovering that all my height speakers had the same distance setting...
I feel bad for you, but I tried all these sweeps myself before posting them and so did many others later. VLC cannot be problem. Problem is I can't try them now because I didn't set up the Atmos in my new flat yet :( I'lll see what I can do to check them with DaVinci this weekend. But again, it's very unlikely that there's a problem with them. It could be Auro settings in your AVR re-routing channels maybe?
Btw, I had top fronts and top rears as my height speakers so they were definitely tested to be correct. If you claimed FWL & FWR which I couldn't test as I don't have them, I'd at least understand.
Hi OCA. What is your latest recommendation on measurement mic placement? Should all measurement be done at MLP, or would you recommend doing 6 inches to the right and 6 inches to the left or so and then doing cross correlation alignment? Or, is it better just to take maybe 6 different measurements and just exact one MLP center position? I tend to sit at MLP, as well as both immediately to the right and to the left of it while watching movies
It really depends on the target area you want to calibrate the sound for. For single person central seating, averaging multiple measurements all done at the MLP will yield the best results. For your specific situation, I guess you could measure 6 inches around the MLP and cross correlate but make sure you take more measurements at the MLP before averaging everything.
Thank you very much for this tutorial, I first thought things would be rather complicated but in the end, it was very understandable and the results are good. Much better than what MultEQ does by itself! A small question: if the enTargetCurveType must be changed in the original MultEQ ady file which the process is based on, does the whole process need to be redone? I initially had it as 0 to disable any high frequency rolloff, but it messes up the Atmos channel configuration in the receiver for some odd reason.. I had to change the two height speakers I have as Top Front from Top Middle or otherwise the center channel would be output from SL :D Changing the curve type to 1 fixed the issue when testing with the original ady but I was thinking if I can do the same operation to the one I got out of the calib process.
enTargetCurve=0 totally mutes my Marantz SR6015 but some subscribers claim, it worked for them. For any other value it will switch between "High frequency roll off 1" and "High frequency roll off 2" target curves. That only effects very high frequencies and is hardly audible but re-calibration would certainly improve things.
@@ocaudiophile Looks like the response files are identical between the two cases, i.e. it's a flag for the receiver and nothing more. So is there actually some special filtering needed to compensate the rolloff?
I had prepared an anti HFR1 filter in the past. There must be a link to it in one of these video descriptions. But it's quite a tedious task because you have to apply that to each response first (AxB trace arithmetic) and then create the filters from the new response and finally multiply each filter again with anti-HFR1 at the end before exporting to the ady file.@@holefilms4493
Haven't checked that script for some time but was working up until recetnly. I just launched Evo and quite swamped at the moment but I will look at this when I can.
Sorry if this has been asked/covered previously, but would you perform calibration first and then see what type of acoustic treatments are needed in the space (based on reverberation times), or treat the room prior to a calibration like this?
You cannot filter low frequency peaks (i.e below 100-120Hz) with acoustic treatment. Also the damping material will swallow high frequencies. So DRC will always be necessary IMO.
After running the calibration, I've been running some test sweeps on my center and mains at various crossover frequencies. I'm finding that I get the best REW graphical response (highest and smoothest between 20-100hz) when I set the speakers to full range large vs. any crossover setting as a small speaker...which was surprising to me. Are there reasons beyond straight REW graphical response I should consider that would tell me to pick the best crossover setting as a small speaker vs. full range large?
When you set any speaker to Large, if your LFE mode is 'LFE + Main', the sub will stay active and will apply a low pass filter to itself at the greyed out, before switching to 'Large' crossover frequency of the large speaker. Sad but true.
They are identical in terms of properties. 1M measurements will have better signal to noise ratio but 256K measurements are more practical as they take less time.
The longer and louder the measurement, the better the S/N ratio so 4M is the best but it takes way too long to measure and the data size slows REW considerably so I hardly ever exceed 1M for resolution@@hdmoviesource
Ran into a little problem. Set up my 4 upfiring Atmos speakers to "dolby atmos-enabled" in AVR as you suggested. After running perfect speaker measure with editor app and checking ady, it assigned the following names to these dolby speakers (front dolby l/r, back dolby l/r, specifically FDL, FDR, BDL, BDR). However, when using your "Speaker Settings" Excelle file, I can not change TRL and TRR to BDL and BDR - it gives me RED highlight in the channel name column indicating error. Strangely enough, there is no error changing TFL and TFR to FDL and FDR. Since names are important as you said, what do I do? How do I change them in Excell without erroring out?
I've never heard of BDL and BDR and they are not in the hidden list containing speaker position names. You can add them manually if you unhide the data sheet. Password is OCA
Thank you! That worked. I just went by what my AVR assigned to the two back dolby atmos enabled channels. Added to excel sheet and it's all good now.@@ocaudiophile
hi,oca, I've been auditioning my system for a couple of chimes since I successfully EQ my system with your method, and I feel that the vocals are a bit distant and not quite the sound I'm looking for. So I'm checking the post eq curve in REW and it's obvious that there are a couple of big dips in the midrange, so I'd like to ask why the EQ is 0 boost after 200 Hz, what's the principle behind it?
For a couple of reasons. The dips are not nearly as audible as the peaks in real World and they are usually wave cancellations and boosting filters will effect both waves and will not stop the cancellation. Peak energy times of high frequencies will vary massively with IIR filters and degrade the sound even when frequency response seems smooth. Their wavelength is so small, the FR will change too much from one location to the other and the filter might be working negatively just 10cm away from where the mic was during measurement.
@@ocaudiophile I got it, thank you so much! It seems that the mid range problem of my system can be better solved by some acoustical decoration and/or speakers positioning
I wanted to reach out and express my gratitude for the effort you put into creating your speaker equalization tutorial. I followed your steps precisely, aiming to enhance the sound quality of my speakers. However, upon applying the equalization settings, I noticed a change in the spatial quality of the sound that didn’t align with my preferences. Specifically, I found that the adjustments resulted in a reduction of the spaciousness or the width of the soundstage. I wonder if I did something wrong.
Sound stage width is mostly determined with speaker tie-in angle but from your description, I can only think of a distance misalignment between the front mains. REW might have got it wrong if left and right speaker impulse peaks are confusing due to close wall reflections on in side. I'd check that and manually align them if need be.
@@ocaudiophile Hello, thank you for taking the time to answer me. I'll definitely check that, after reading more comments, I'm starting to think that maybe I used the wrong speed of sound. I also had hard time deciding how much to increase the subwoofer SPL in REW before EQ it.
@@ocaudiophileHello. I wanted to give you some news. Rew indeed messed up to align IR peaks because my surround speakers have an inverted peak compare to my mains. So I had to reverse the polarity of my surrounds and the cross correlation gave a good alignment. Also my SR6013 was doing it's calculs at 343m/s and not 300 as I though. So now all your tutorial worked well and the results are audibly superior to audyssey EQ. So thank you so much for your hard work.
@ocaudiophile, Entered 0 in high freguency roll-off on a Marantz SR 5012. Worked but, when I run sweeps for my Side Surrounds through rew they make no sound. If I sweep Back Surrounds they make sound. I've never used Back Surrounds on this receiver. I looked at the ady in json and they're labelled correctly and the amp assign is the correct name SRA/SLA. I beleive the center is 6 db down but i'd have to look at that again. Crazy how loud the high end is with it off. Any thoughts?
Do any of these "lossless" sweeps have the same problem? drive.google.com/file/d/1YjQmnqq9slHruUGekggkVn8chk1mHjjS/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1lGFGkomIuUJ56SdOFW5y8k7ahIIZCGRH/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1YTQ8Wq-Moc0Xe8uyljPcDSY0mrau9agL/view?usp=sharing
I was wondering , when creating the filters for the SW1 should I also create an output filter file for my miniDSP 2 x 4?? As per your tutorial my HT sound great, perhaps I should try it and compare.
Hi sir- So I have just made it through the "exporting MultEQ-X mqx measurments" part. I don't have -x , but use the mobile app. Is this saying, I can just take my 8 measurements within the phone app and import them into REW and not have to take the measurements with the umik-1 via REW?
What am I doing wrong if I followed this method and Audyssey still is applying the high frequency roll off? Is there an easy fix like an inverse Audyssey curve filter to make my created filters stick?
There's an anti-HFR1 filter I shared in one of the video descriptions but I can't remember which one. It needs to be applied twice during filter creation though so the task is a bit cumbersome ;)
Another question: in previous videos you were saying to take measurements with Audyssey app and selecting Dynamic EQ "ON". In this video around 13 minutes you are saying we should have it "off". Which one is it? Do I take app "perfect curve" measurement with dynamic "EQ off", and then take REW measurements with it's at "off" again, or use "dynamic EQ on" for both initial "perfect curve" and my REW measurements later?
When going over the initial REW settings you set the smoothing to "Var smoothing". When looking at your initial measurements, I do however notice that there is no smoothing applied. How does the smoothing in REW really work? Does it just affect the visual representation of the measurement data, or does it also affect all the changes we make when processing the measurement data?
The 1/x smoothing functions are a known method called "fractional octave smoothing" and VAR is the one with variable x smoothing less in the low frequencies and more in the hf region and in that respect suits well to digital filtering. Auto-EQ will only eq what you see on the EQ screen so smoothing amount will change the filter parameters but measurements keep their original resolution at all times. Even though a trace arithmetic operation on a smoothed response will yield to similarly smoothed results visually, they are still not literally smoothed. Only minimum phase versions generated with "replicate data outside range" will not carry its original resolution to the MP version.
Edit: I do however notice that REW operates faster when the measurements are smoothed, e.g. when re-ordering measurements for the purpose of cross correlation.
User Error: Filter (.txt) file names DID NOT MATCH detected channel names. Please reload the page! Hi and thanks for your work, I'm convinced that my files are good and named correctly. Is this normal?
I haven't checked lately but the scripts worked fine for many months. There must be something wrong with your file naming. Why don't you just use A1 Evo instead?
Hello good sir- It's been a while. You had helped me a few months ago get my setup all dialed in, but then I added a topset of atmos, so I never really ran that config. I had some family issues going on so I haven't really had time to think about it until now. I see you have a ton more great videos out. Where should I start now to get the best sound out of my setup? I have a 5.2.4 setup with a denon 3600h, Mini-dsp and the multi EQ phone app. I look forward to diving back in with the help of your videos.
Dear OCA. I just found your channel. I was going to buy Dirac for my Denon X3800h. One of your videos said it makes no "sense" till at least DLBC will come out for Denon / Marantz. I already purchased a Umik-1 and now i really like to go with your REW approach due to i saw so much good comments. I just saw the "Supreme Audyssey Calibration" and wanted to start with it tomorrow. Now im a bit corius by just starting this video. Is there an specific order to see the videos? Also i got the feeling the newer ones will replace the older ones due to another workflow. Am i right? Is there a recommended order of view and work by if i want to optimize m 9.2.4 system? Also a question is, should i leave the "isReversePolarity":true in the "chat" before and after rew measurement files? Will this cause troubles? Should i deal with it before? The speaker itself is on right polarity.
newer videos contain better methods and more automation but all methods improve the sound over standard Audyssey. If you decide to keep speaker polarity as is, keep IsReversePolarity at false.
Hi OCA, big thanks to your contribution to audio. I tried to do filters according video, but when I tired to send it to receiver, audyssey app show message that file is corrupted. Speakers settings with perfect speaker working fine, but not filters ady, any hints…??? Thanks, regards Ondrej
Hi. I can’t transfer calibrated ady from the app to the receiver. It stops during analyzing. I have this problem with both methods (Inversion Supreme Aud. and also Filter Aud. Art). I would be very happy if you could help me.
Are you exporting filters from REW with comma separated values and headers/comments "Not icluded"? Compare your original and final ady file in the json editor and you can see what's wrong with your ady.
Sir,although you already answered this question yesterday but can I ask you..... Q1. Is it still possible to use the method of 2 subwoofer allignments used by you in the video "Optimal Subwoofer Allignment Using Cross Co-relation" and follow the filteration process of the Audyssey ART video to create for the optimal subwoofer Alignments of both my subs??
Hi OCA, very excited to see how this changes my sound! I don't have the Actions menu shown at 19:08 and therefore cannot select the Cross Corr Align button. Are you able to share which version of REW you're using and which settings you use in the Preferences->View menu? Thanks!
Thanks for your code for extracting the measurements from mqx file. But the export of the mic calibration data seems to be incorrect. Do you have any new information about that?
You're right. The mic calibration file in the mqx was encrypted differently to the speaker measurement data, I tried decrypting it with various methods and picked the only one that produced readable data. But it still didn't seem to fit well on the graphs hence I called it experimental. You can upload the standard Audyssey mic calibration file to REW before importing measurements. I linked that in the videos. It will not be too much off from the calibrated mics.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for your answer. My intention is not to export the measurements. I would like to import REW mesasurements to the mqx file. But I need correct mic calibration data in the file, the one of my mic or a flat line if I corrected it in REW yet.
Hi! A short FYI from my end on the enTargetCurveType setting When I set the value to 0, my Marantz Cinema 40 accepts the file without complaining, but there is - as with yours @OCA - no sound at all. Obviously the receiver cannot handle the 0. Tried this a couple of times with different files/measurements and verified the setting being a 0 by sending the file back to my Mac. Also curious is that the target roll off curve in the app is set to "High Frequency Roll Off 2" (having the value set to 0).
Just a quick question, I have ran the calibration and uploaded it to the receiver turned off midrange compresssion, should I leave the MultiEQ on reference, change it to flat or turn it off entirely? many thanks
Only in reference mode, custom target curve points which are in fact your filters, will be applied by Audyssey. Midrange compensation should already be automatically turned off by the script?
This is a really dumb question, but how do you get the .ady file uploaded to the AVR? I did all of the steps, and I can't seem to be able to get the file uploaded to my AVR.
Hi OCA! I'm missing your new videos! This tutorial made my sound system to be like costing thousands of euros. Any more improvements soon for Audissey? ;) Best regards,
I've been moving homes and could not yet complete system setup. There're a few updates in the pipeline to the methods (ie the scripts are not fully compatible with the new 4 sub output receivers, there're slight changes to windowing and smoothing of responses, etc) but they'll need to wait a bit more.
How do you best measure the distance from the MLP to the acoustic reference speaker (to be used as a basis for all the distance calculations)? From the mic to the tweeter with a laser measure? Apologize for all the questions at once, I'm going through this manual calibration procedure for the first time and questions keep popping up as I go.
I place a rectangular shaped flat box on the top of the speaker at the acoustic center and use a laser measure from the mic tip but even Iphone's "measure" app will give good enough values. Relative distances of speakers between each other is the part where you need accuracy. Inaccuracy of the reference speaker distance will only affect the size of the atmos sound bubble in the room.
When trying to cross correlation align all measurements (including the subwoofers), REW gives me an error message saying that the subwoofer measurements were excluded because of a mismatch in sample rate. I measured all speakers with your Atmos sweeps, and the subwoofers with REW sweeps at 48 KHz, range 0-200 Hz. When I look at the measurement info window, REW says that the sample rate for the subs is 3000 Hz, while it is 48 KHz for the speakers. Do I need to redo my subwoofer measurements and measure in the range 0-24000 Hz? Update: I tried measuring the subs with 0-24000 Hz range (without -10 dB LFE effects in the AVR, as advised), and it does produce measurements that have a 48 KHz sampling rate. However, REW says the volume is too low when checking levels with the range set to 0-24000 Hz, even though the subs hit 100 dB peak when measuring. Is the volume an issue, or can I ignore REWs warning?
Untick "Decimate IR" in Analysis or else REW will drop sample rate for narrow frequency band measurements like 0-200Hz or measure the subs full range 0-24kHz! If Atmos sweeps have low volume, you might wanna check if loudness management of any kind is left ON in the AVR. It's on by default and should be turned off. The loudness menu only shows up during Atmos sweeps.
@@ocaudiophile Ah, so there is a setting that causes this. Thank you! Loudness management is Off. "Check levels" reports good SPL levels when I use REW sweeps in the range 0-200 Hz, but when I set it to 0-24000 Hz it says the volume is too low. When I run the sweeps though, it seems that REW is happy with the SPL. AVR master volume is set to -25 dB, and the sweeps are very loud (100 dB peak).
@@ocaudiophile It is not ticked. I saw that there is a setting for which speakers to use for "Check levels" in the soundcard preferences (subwoofer or main speakers). Perhaps that is the culprit here....
When I took my Audyssey measurements I set Reference Level Offset to 0.0dB and Low Frequency Effects to -10.0dB. And reversed after calibration, Was that correct? Also, should Audyssey be kept off, after calibration? BTW, Thank you for all your endeavors on this subject. My cinema has never sound better!
Yes, that was correct. If there was a 10dB error in subwoofer setting, you will certainly hear it anyway :) AUdyssey should always be on and at reference but if you used Audyssey app measurements rather than your own then you should turn off Dynamic EQ. If you measured all speakers yourself in REW with Audyssey DYnamic EQ on then you can keep it on after calibration so you will have low volume adjustments done by Audyssey automatically.
Thanks again for your help earlier. I followed the process as you advised and ended up with a curve that looks like this within the audyssey app does that look somewhat too erratic or fairly normal? As these measurements were made in app with the audyssey mic am I supposed to add a profile at the end or something ? Thanks
Hello, very cool video. Can I ask a few questions? I have an av marantz sr5015 using the audyssey mobile application, I pulled out a file with graphs from the application, edited everything according to your video, and when I throw the file back from the mobile application to av, the download reaches the process (room correction) and at this stage it weighs, then the file not transmitted to av. And in the mobile application, these graphs are also not displayed. Can you suggest what should be done? Or is it impossible to carry out such a correction with my av?
There are a couple of problems with your ady file: 1. CustomTargetCurvePoints have been imported with the Freq and SPL titles in the first row 2. No customDistance or customLevel setting exist and all distances are entered in the distance property instead. 3. Speakers have not been converted to perfect response (1,0,0,0...) None of these are results of any script supplie with this video. You must be using some other scripts, exporting filters from REW incorrectly and making manual entries.
Hi) with your help, I figured out where I made a mistake, I was so delighted with your lesson and so wanted to repeat that I got confused about the files, because of this this problem happened. Thank you very much for your help, and for responding so quickly🤝
Hello there an thank you for your great work, in the video Supreme Audyssey Calibration by OCA we have calculated our crossovers a bit different. Which way of calculation do you recommend? The Vectoraverage and then blending or just the intersection points?
Thanks. Ideally, cross them over at their spec -3/-6dB bass roll off frequency but due to lack of phase alignment with Audyssey, this might cause dips and peaks in the combined response. WIth Audyssy, your optimal option is to measure different XO points and pick the one with the smoothest response.
@@ocaudiophile So, merging the vector average of a pair to the subwoofer and blending it is the beter way? Anathor question, how do I create my own target curve slope for every speaker? Have you mentioned it in some of your videos?
I did mine by fitting a 4th degree polynomial after visually extracting a couple of intersection points. There are online tools that you can do that with. I don't remember which one I used really. Once you have a similar curve, import it as txt file to REW and use it as a target curve. @@miroslavpetkov9895
@ocaudiophile If managing the subs through a minidsp, is the best way to have a filter for the rew/ady script, is to create a filter in eq with no filters applied such that it makes a pure impulse filter? Spl level of eq doesn't matter, so I can use the same pure impulse filter if I recalibrate?
Yes just delete any customCurveedit points from SW1 and make sure it has [1,0,0,0.....] perfect speaker response and Audyssey will not touch the sub other than delay and volume.
Hi OCA, Hope you have had a good Christmas. I am wondering if you could do a tutorial to show how you would do this optimally for those of us that have 2 subs but SWMIX? I know it EQs them together but does time delay separately. How can we do this the best way? When I did this I got quite a few that said there was no filter to be added so im not sure that I did something correctly or this was not the optimal way of doing it for me. I had only good results when I used your Supreme Audyssey Calibration method. Is using filters like this better than that way? the other method seemed a lot more specific? I am using MultEQ Editor app Thanks!
The scripts work with SWMIX, too. The second sub's trim and delay levels should be kept as is if you're using Audyssey's own measurements. If you use REW and measure each sub separately then even a better combined sub response can be achieved. Share your ady and I will have a look.
@@ocaudiophile I have since redone a calibration. FYI they have removed SWMIX and they have just labelled them SW1 and SW2. the target curve is put in SW1 but the distances etc for SW2 is in the one labelled as such. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_UhR1C0MRnL8PSJiur3MAfCpFgsoG09A?usp=sharing
Hi OCA great Videos. I really appreciate your work. I use a marantz 7706 pre Amp. It has two sub outs. but I only use one output for my DBA. The DBA has a behringer DSP for external correction (AD/DA loss included). As I watch your videos here: Is it possible to use both outs to correct the DBA within Audyssey directly and get rid of the external DSP. 1. Out Front Array, 2. Out Rear Array. Correction might be much better with a REW filter.
Yes, you can separately EQ two subs connected directly to the Marantz if you switch to directional sub mode. You will need MultEQ Editor app if it's not in the menu options in the receiver (my SR6015 doesn't have it in the menu but it can be manuipulated throught the app). There should be more infor on that in these notes: drive.google.com/file/d/14gm10Ls-H_K4DxuzWo_m_dDBzdZEgj4b/view?usp=sharing
Excellent video! Question: I have non-traditional ATMOS speakers in 7.1.4 setup (Klipsch RA-140SA). They are not down-firing ceiling installed, but rarher up-firing and sitting on top of my FL/FR and SBL / SBR. Would you recommend setting them up as front/rear top firing or front / rear heights and why? Thanks!
They need to be selected as "Atmos enabled" speakers in amp assign because the distance to ceiling needs to be added as they will reflect from the ceiling. But I suggest you find a way to hang up the walls and use them as front/rear heights for proper Atmos sound.
in my AVR settings I can select any of the 3 "Atmos-enabled" options: Top speakers, Height speakers and Dolby speakers. Seems that according to diagram, my upfiring ones are "Dolby" which are Atmos enabled, not height or top. But for purposes of measurements I would still use your Atmos sweeps which are TFL/TFR, TRL/TRR? @@ocaudiophile
Second issue.... I found that I could never get propper IR alignment of all speakers at once using REW's tool, a couple of them would be out of phase. So, assuming that REW was working correctly, I had to reverse polarity on my Center, Front Right, and Surround Right. Once I did that, and re-ran the sweeps, all speakers aligned "harmoniously"! Was that the right thing to do? (switching polarity to make REW look pretty) Thanks! Well... listening to music in stereo mode, it's definitely out of phase with FR reversed, maybe audyssey is doing something weird?
Impulse peaks pointing at the same direction is a nice thing to have but doesn't always mean they are in phase especially if you have different brand/model speakers. Best way is to compare them in Overlays/phase. A new video is starting in 15 minutes, there's instructions on how to check for correct polarity in there.
I think I understand a bit better... phase alignment is not necessarily the same as IR peak alignment, i.e., not all the peaks may line up in same direction, but the phases will be correct ? Or more correctly to say, peaks will align, but might point 180 degrees apart?
When all the measurements have been made using Audyssey/MultEQ and processed in REW like in this video, can Dynamic EQ be turned on in the receiver afterwards or will it mess something up?
Rewatching everything so I can do this right the first time. When calculating the distance of the center channel. Do I just pull that out of a previous audyssey measurement? I'm assuming that is not correct since my Mic will not be in the exact same spot when doing the REW measurements. Or what is the best method?
If your system has crosstalk, you will see the acoustic reference chirp in the impulse response which will show the exact distance to all your speakers. MOst often, you will not have that so you have to pick one of the speakers for which you know the exact distance between the MLP and that speaker of. Center speaker is usually the easiest to measure accurately. You don't have to be very accurate either, it's the relative distances of speakers that make the great Atmos bubble consistency.
Thankyou for taking the time and effort to share your knowledge, the results achieved with this method are excellent, I highly recommend it to anyone with an audyssey system, especially as you've made it all possible without any additional hardware (umik etc), you're an absolute champion.
Glad it helped
Unbelievable that you try to answer every comment. Thank you for the effort! Danke!
Any time!
Worked flawlessly the first time. Learning how to time/spl align speakers was one of the biggest parts of the video for me. Thanks for sharing and teaching.
Glad it helped!
Token of love and appreciation for being a great soul in sharing your valuable time and knowledge. God bless you for ever OCA!
Thanks, this is very kind of you. Happy NY!
Merry Christmas and many thanks for your great videos, hard work and friendly support!
Thanks, Merry Xmas to you, too!
Thanks OCA for your time and expertise to give us all better audio.!!
My pleasure!
@@ocaudiophile Hello again ... Regarding importing Audyssey.ady readings for speakers .. After configuring everything do I turn on/Leave on Dynamic EQ or Turn Off . I'm confused if it overwrites all the work done. Thanks
If you used Audyssey measurements, you should keep DEQ off as they are measured and thus corrected with DEQ off.@@rich4513
@@ocaudiophile Thank You !!! , I will turn OFF DEQ now and really enjoy OCA calibrated sound Correctly ...LOL
@@ocaudiophile I have one more inquiry at 41:50 you adjusted SW1 to SPL... Why do you choose that adjustment in dips ? Why not raise the sub so all dips are above the DB average / Curve ? Thanks
Thanks again for your help in my comment below!
Cheers mate! You didn't have to ;)
Thank you for all the incredibly helpful videos you put out. This one finally got me to setup my UMIK and give all your techniques a shot. This method made an immediately noticeable improvement compared to standard audessy with some minor adjustments.
I still need to do some fine tuning to the target curves to match my speakers but it is worth the effort even using a “standard” target. Next up is tuning my 2.1 channel setup on my desk using your other videos!
Thank you, you didn't need to...
Ideally, after the calibration is completed, it's always useful to measure the speakers with Audyssey on and check for additional adjustment requirements, especially with the subwoofer response (and LFE volume). Audyssey correction algorithms apply a technique called frequency warping where the filters focus on where Audyssey believes they're needed most and this can cause some unintended peaks here and there (usually in the low bass area). I EQ that with REW auto-EQ (one additional peak filter) and combine that with the original subwoofer custom target curve points and re-transfer the ady and then it's golden.
Thanks!
Danke!
Thank you, much appreciated!
Hey what will be the exact steps in short words when adding a second subwoofer to the equasion and using MQX ?
Measure separately and align the subs between each other with REW'S Alignment Tool. That's in fact adding a certain delay (distance) to one if the subs. I've an old video showing how. Create EQ filters in REW for the aligned sum and export to MQX. Make sure you keep the distance difference between the subs in MQX. Aligned sum finally also needs to be aligned with the rest of the speakers just like a single sub would.
It would be great if you could include the one and two subs optimizations in your next Audyssey video. Is something planned in the near future or no new methods out yet ?
2 subs directly connected to the AVR still need manual work to optimize, they are not automated by the scripts. I will do that when I have some time and probably launch a video shortly after.@@atx86
Thank you very much, my speakers were good with Audyssey already, but they came to life thanks to your UA-cam channel! atmos is now more detailed! and the bass isn't that thumpy either, just flat! I made some changes to the bass room as you also indicated. big thanks!👍👍👍
And finally, after getting it all back into the receiver...
My first thoughts when testing (watching begining of Six Underground on Netflix), was wow, it seemed to be so coherent and sharp. I mean previously I had done a basic REW tweaking/adjustment on top of Audyssey results, but not to the level of detail in your video. Still need to listen to more stuff, but so far worth the multiple days I've spent learning and applying the process.
Thanks again!
You can get way better sound than Dirac (not ART) with Audyssey when you put the effort.
Thanks
Please would you be so kind as to help me again?
drive.google.com/file/d/1NNDt7-9WV0tzT3ado75I3AzuGwZjqnEz/view?usp=sharing
I have manually completed a full measurement in REW with UMIK (DEQ at -10). I have spent many hours on it and am actually finished. But with the completely automatic processing according to the instructions, I get an impossible value for the subwoofer again (>20 m). I've tried back and forth but don't even know how to handle the impulse peaks differently than with "cross correlation align" - the automatically calculated delay is beyond good and evil. I suspect that I would just mess it up if I now manually intervene (measure the distance with the mouse in ms without a visible copy in REW). Can you please create another ADY using your method for me? I can't get it done.
I also find it strange that I seem to be listening very, very quietly with the setup. The average dB value after which I aligned the EQ was only 53.6 dB according to REW. @ocaudiophile
The time difference between your closest speaker (SLA) and even the very first peak of the subwoofer system is 8.27m ( 24.11 ms). The limit for that is 6m. Even if you move your SLA and SRA further out by 1m, it will not align. You need to ditch the MiniDSP or completely re-adjust it minimizing all relative delays in it between the subs. Btw, the sub response needs to be inverted.
So, I've now completely omitted the Mini-DSP. I hope I get useful values now. But, and I haven't understood this so far, how do I proceed with 2 subwoofers connected directly to the Denon (4700H)? Until now, I only had one virtual sub.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lRooIJYEgB0qeysPlOs9MnspX426msEp?usp=sharing
I've done a new Audyssey calibration with the 2-sub setup. Then I uploaded the Perfect Speaker version and measured both subs at 3 different points (individually). But what's next? Could you please describe specifically for 2 subs connected to the receiver? Do I need to manually adjust the ADY (time delay between both subs)? Do I just do an X-Correlation Alignment between 3 measurements for one, then for the other, and then combine the results from both again? Can I use the alignment tool with both sub measurements in the receiver?
What about the data I have to add to the excel? Exported mesurements were 3 as SW10,11,12. Do I have to use SW1 and SW2 in the Excel, which Data are needed to be added in there? Same data for both?
Sorry, I can imagine that this is tedious@@ocaudiophile
Audyssey keeps relative volume and distance levels between the subs and creates one EQ filter for the sum of both subs with those settings. Easiest way is to keep these relative settings and just create the EQ filter yourself with the method for SWMIX but ideally you can align the subs between each other better than AUdyssey with REW's Alignment Tool and use thaat sum (Aligned Sum) as your SWMIX response and the filters for that to the ady. However the way relative distance and trim values are kept in the ady vary between different receiver models and I am not entirely certain which one will work for yours. I will have a look when I can but a bit busy this evening. @@media_marc
Is your ady file as Audyssey created or is it manipulated by the scripts already? I am trying to understand how your AVR reads sub timing differences.@@media_marc
Hey, at 29:57 you add all SPL offsets except the first one to the C channel. Is that an error? It doesn't seem correct to me as you are adding the first offset to the FL channel.
Align SPL will move all responses to a common level so every channel will require an SPL offset. It's cross core align operation where a selected channel to which others are time aligned, will not require a time delay offset.
@@ocaudiophileThanks for the reply, keep up the Work! And yes, I understand that, I don't know how else to describe it, look at my timestamp for 10 seconds. I mean the measurement tool. You move the measurement FL with the SPL offset once, then you move the measurement C up and down and up again mulitple times and all other channels not once.
But i have also another question: I have now transferred the target filters back to my avr and created a measurement after importing with REW. However, the result is not what I expected after filtering. Apart from the db adjustments, hardly anything has happened. In the MultEQ app, however, the curve is correct. You calculate a result from the filter at the end, but unfortunately there are no final control measurements in your videos, it seems to me that MultiEQ hardly corrects at all what we would expect. Did you ever did a control measurement?
Audyssey filters have some limits ie cannot apply correction more than a total of 20dB to any channel inc. the speaker volume setting, implements a frequency warping technique to focus limited number of FIR taps (1024 per ch) to where it's needed most and compromises areas outside it. But still, these filters should work very close to what's intended in general. You might have set Audyssey to "Flat" or "L&R bypass" which will bypass all custom filters. They only work in "Reference" mode.@@sheggy012
I was probably too obsessed with getting the bumps out of it in 1/48 Filtering. These are most likely caused by my poor room acoustics and can't be fixed with EQ alone. When I look at the whole thing in psychoacoustic it does what it's supposed to. A big thanks for the tricks and the scripts to solve the whole thing without a 200€ license. Keep it up!@@ocaudiophile
I honestly can’t believe it! Will watch the video later but I had to comment immediately on the fact you finally conceded/threw in the towel and bought MultEQ-X! Thank you so much!
I didn't ;)
I worked on the demo!
@@ocaudiophile guess I spoke too soon!
I worked on some subcriber mqx data and the demo version@@ts6640
Thanks!🎉 🔈 🔊 🎵
Thank you too!
Hi OCA, wonderful stuff! On my 6th time rewatching this and making adjustments. Friendly suggestion: I think for your next video everyone would appreciate if you go into details and step-by-step instructions on how to create personal target curve for your own speakers. You briefly touched up on it in this video, but I think it deserves a full dedicated lesson. That's "next level stuff". Also, perhaps, detailed tips and tricks on bouncy atmos-enabled speakers setup, manual sub distance correlation / offset, other oddities, etc., etc. :)
You're right, all noted for the next tutorial. I created my speakers' sepc target curve by using an online polynomial graphing tool:
www.desmos.com/calculator/kreo2ssqj8
Thanks for the very cool and helpful guidelines!
I've just downloaded the latest files and tried to run the MQX converter however I never get a prompt for saving the results, it seems to be stuck at the "Please wait..." step. Ive resaved my MQX files again, tried on both Mac and PC but still stuck at the same Please wait step... Anything I might be missing?
Thanks!
Your browser might be blocking downloads. Try to change its security settings. Only one of the supplied scripts is for mqx and it works fine.
Thanks for the super thanks btw. You didn't have to. 👍
@@ocaudiophile I know, but its well earned! Your in deapth videos have really been inspirational in a nerdy and cool way :) Thanks again!
Regarding the error - I tried different browsers with different security settings (chrome - no protection for exampe) and no luck. I see in Dev Console that there seems to be an error with parsing (looks like there might be an error in my MQX file...although MultiEQ-X have no problem opening and re-saving it again):
VM313:1296 Uncaught (in promise) SyntaxError: Unexpected non-whitespace character after JSON at position 4932610
at JSON.parse ()
at decodeAndConvert (ExtractAllMeasurements_mqx.html:43:29)
I will try fixing the MQX or will end up just doing REW measurements.
UPDATE: JSON error found and fixed. The REW measurements exported and saved! :)
But now Im failing to extract MIC Calibration File. Getting the following error:
Create Custom Audyssey Mic Response.html:51 Uncaught DOMException: Failed to execute 'atob' on 'Window': The string to be decoded is not correctly encoded.
at decodeFloat16Values (file:///Users/leon/Downloads/AudysseyX/Create%20Custom%20Audyssey%20Mic%20Response.html:51:21)
at reader.onload (file:///Users/leon/Downloads/AudysseyX/Create%20Custom%20Audyssey%20Mic%20Response.html:25:31)
The mic response should be extracted from the MQX file and saved. The errors seem to point out to reading a wrong file.
Thank you for yet another great method! Just an FYI, the reference curve gets added automatically to any custom curve loaded in the app. I always wondered why I'm missing highs. You can see this when looking at the room correction result. The correction curve versus expected/loaded is always offset by the amount of the reference curve.
It's the "High Frequency Rolloff" setting in the app that causes this. I have provided its inverted version in one of the Audyssey video descriptions (can't remember which one). Also, some users claimed that, when they change its value to 0 in the app ("enCustomTargetCurve" setting - normally either 1 or 2), they get rid of it. My SR6015 Marantz though is muting completely if I do that.
@@ocaudiophile Maybe add another step to multiply the curve correction with anti-HFR (from this video)? I'm sure many are not aware of this happening.
It was discussed earlier in the comments. You need to apply it twice and to each filter so quite a bit of work. There's not much we do at these very high frequencies so I didn't force it. @@horatiud.5976
Hey OCA, so I just tried putting "0" in the "enCustomTargetCurve" setting and my Denon AVR accepted it. However, I do not see or hear any difference with or without it. Is there a way to test it visually or audio-wise to see if there's any difference. Where do I look or test it out? Thanks a bunch! @@ocaudiophile
I am missing your videos! 😁
Maybe we will have more news from you soon with Audyssey and REW!
Working on it!
@ocaudiophile Can you please clarify your volume and dynamic EQ settings while measuring? In an earlier video, I got the impression that you advise to set the volume to the maximum level you listen to, and then use the "reference level offset" function to account for any deviation from that volume downwards from there (5, 10 of 15 db). At the same time, it looked like you actually had "reference level offset" set to 10 dB while measuring, and at 56:16 in this video I got the same impression.
The maximum level I listen at is -20 dB. To my understanding, I should measure at that volume level with "reference level offset" set to 0 dB (=off), and then use "reference level offset" 15 dB if I chose to listen at -35 dB etc. Is that correct?
REW measurements should be made with Audyssey set to "Reference", Dynamic EQ on and receiver volume level at your preferred level (ie -20dB). Reference level offset will effect how much Dynamic EQ will intervene for levels above and below -20dB. I personally prefer DEQ effect at 5dB. I have suggested setting it to 10dB elsewhere so as to allow stronger or lighter DEQ effects possible. As long as you keep DEQ ref offset at the same level during all REW measurements, it's fine. And its effect is only audible when volume level is NOT at -20dB!
@@ocaudiophile Thank you. I thought reference level offset only worked downwards, i.e. for volume levels below reference. Are you sure it works upwards as well? If measuring at your maximum listening level, shouldn't reference level offset be set to 0 dB? Otherwise, the level you measured at will not be you reference point?
After calibration with DEQ on and ref level whereever it was, the speakers' response for the measured level will be the target curve. Depending on the ref offset, volumes above and below the measured level will differ less or more from that curve. DEQ is effective up to 0dBFS (100dB) and almost nobody will measure or listen their system at that level.@@isak6626
@@ocaudiophile Right. But the span around the volume you measure at is +/- 15 dB at most right, not 15 dB down and 15 dB up if you have ref level offset det to 0 dB? So if you measure at -20 dB with ref level offset at 0 dB, you can only go down to -35 dB without having DEQ messing up your response. Any volume above -20 dB (say -10 dB) will mess up your response, or?
Thanks
Welcome!
I am currently running a 5.1 setup and will upgrade it to Atmos 5.1.4 soon. I'm using a Cinema 50 with external 2 channel amp and the question is if I still need to apply the method you explained at 3:56. Until now I have been only using the 9.1 instead of 11.1 preset. Do you have a link or video on where to read up on the Atmos decoder on the different height speaker positions.
The correct amp assign for your system is 11.1 with surround backs turned off after.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you. Do you have any info on what is different for the Atmos speakers with top and front/back placement in the receiver settings?
@ktultimate6523 I think there's a difference in 3D object placement algorithms of the Atmos encoder.
@@ocaudiophile Ok thank you, keep up the great work!
Thank you OCA - your content is excellent! I have successfully completed this procedure. When importing the target curves into MQX would you suggest using the auto 'cut off' modes for each speaker or disable. I think audessey may use its filters to match the detected rolloff of the speaker. The other options are for manual (and you can set the order) or auto. Also in filter settings you can manually set the lower (and upper) EQ limits, do you have any thoughts about the low limit setting in particular? All the best!
I am not an expert on MQX realy but all additional Audyssey correction must be disabled for the filters generated in REW to work as intended.
Thank you for your big contribution to community.
My question is, what to do when sub impulse distance is large? My sub is 3m from MLP, but first peak in impulse is 11m from referent central speaker impulse. Same is with my REW measurements and with imported Ady file. Playing with sub phase just adds to the delay. (SVS SB2000PRO)
Sub-woofer circuits or some interface in-between like a MiniDSP are known to add extra delays which you see as extra distance but 11m to the first impulse peak is quite extreme. Are you sure it's the first peak but not the highest peak because otherwise you can adjust to an earlier peak and problem will be mostly solved.
@@ocaudiophile Sub has direct connection to avr. I'm looking at the peek that REW selected with cross corr align (first on -100%) there are two before but significantly smaller, +55% (3m closer, 7m ), and -40% (5m closer, 6.m). Thank you so much for replying.
@@dankocrnkovic5207You cannot dial in more than 6m higher than the shortest speaker distance for the sub.
@@ocaudiophile So in cases like this should we target closer peak at 5m -40% or 7m at 55%? I'm having really hard time to integrate sub for LP at any crossover. What would you select as compromise?
Compare 1/1 smoothed Group Delay graphs in Overlays. All speakers and the subs should be in sync in the high frequencies. You can measure the delay required by mouse right click method and it will also correspond to one of the impulse peaks of the subs. @@dankocrnkovic5207
Thanks again for all your work sir!
A lot has changed in your workflow (and rew updates) since these videos: "Dolby Atmos Height Channels Measurement & Calibration with REW" + "Dolby Atmos Manual Tuning Complementary Tutorial".
Would love an updated, clear and concise video for those of us who wants to calibrate our surround system without Audyssey and just with the graphic EQ in the processor. Or do you prefer the precision of the Audyssey-workflow? I asked you some time ago, and you answered that you think the pure graphic EQ-workflow sounds more natural than the Audyssey-way. (I also think it is less effort doing it this way :D).
I know we always learn new things - so if I asked you today, what is your preferred method for calibrating your surround system for multiple seatings with a denon/marantz receiver and a umik + a minidsp for subs at your disposal?
There's not much else to be done on the manual calibration front as the graphic equalizers are still the same old ones in new models besides there's no sub EQ unless your sub has its own. Why don't you try both and compare?
Hi Oca
Cool, you have quickly adapted the Base64 export for multeqx! Seems like you have been waiting for it! 🎉😅
Yes, thanks to you! It was the subscribers waiting for it. I don't even have MQ-X ;)
Hi OCA, really enjoying to watch every new tutorial as they really help to dip deeper and better understand the overall matter. Thanks for your tremedious effort putting in to serve teh community. So far one thing which isn´t entirely clear and leads to different outcomes is prior sub db offset (-10 db or 0db) setting. It doesn´t seem to make a difference to my Marantz cinema 40 if I measure the Sub 0-24000 or just 0-250Hz (which should then be 10 db hotter according to my understanding as then recoginsed as LFE Signal). Therefore my question is how to foolproof set and measure this correctly to get the right outcome which follows the target curve afterwards.
I am not entirely certain but I think, at least recently, LFE +10dB boost is only encoded for Atmos and DTS HD signals. Probably after a recent firmware update, similar to your experience, I don't experience LFE boost with regular REW sweeps, either (independent of the frequency range measured). Although, I cannot clearly understand why would they change firmware to stop that if they did, I am relaxed that 10dB is so huge (it's nearly 4 times the volume), it's impossible not to detect an error of that amount easily by the ear.
Thank you!!! i was so looking forward to this.
You are so welcome!
Hey, is there any reason to split the measurements into 2? From 500hz down, and 500hz and up? Can it not be done in one target curve?
You want to correct for the room (reflections) below 500Hz and correct for the speaker (eliminate reflections) above 500Hz. Truncating the IR window size aims to achieve that above 500Hz.
I have two subwoofers and I didn't use REW to measure, I used your html file converter with my mqx file so I only have a single SWMIX measurement file instead of two separate sub files. Should I follow the same aligning and other processes with just the SWMIX channel, or do I need to get two individual sub files?
Also I believe my Denon amp is using 300m/s as the speed of sound instead of 343 as for example when I measure my FL in real life it's 2.70m vs Audyssey's 2.41. Am I right in saying that I should still use the speaker distances that my Audyssey generated instead of the real distances?
Check the notes in this link for SWMIX configurations:
drive.google.com/file/d/14gm10Ls-H_K4DxuzWo_m_dDBzdZEgj4b/view
As long as you change speed of sound settings in REW/Preferences to 300m/s, you can use Audyssey distances and what you calculate in REW "as is" in your set up.
@@ocaudiophile Hi OCA, thanks for your answers! I've come to the end of the process and I'm looking at my MultEQX Filter Settings page and all the orange "After" speaker responses look good apart from my sub which looks very wrong, it looks like it will remove all the bass under 50hz. Where have I gone wrong? I think I'm still struggling to understand what to do with my SWMIX...
I didn't look at SWMIX detail in MQX files but MultEQ editor has a relative distance and volume setting fro the second sub and one traget curve edit points property (EQ) for the first sub. You'll need to accept Audyssey's trim and volume leves for the second sub and apply the method for the first sub. But the optimal way is to measure both subs separately in REW for distance and volume at the LP. After adjusting each sub's distance correctly (and volume if necessary) measure both subs together. You can try switching the phase of one sub at this stage and pick the one with the best response.
Then you should manually enter the relative trim and volume leves for the second sub in the correct settings in MQX (I don't know where they are since I don't have any mqx sample file with two subs) and the EQ settings for the first sub (which in fact is EQ for both subs together) as REW filter export in the method.
PS Two subs is very complicated with Audyssey and I have seen odd volume adjustments with surround speakers with Dynamic EQ on the second sub.. I ended up removing one of mine.
Thanks so much for producing content like this for the community? I am new to the home theater scene. I have a 5.1 setup with a denon 760h with an Audyssey mic. I was wondering which video would be best for me to try and follow along? I believe there are two hour long videos on your channel regarding calibration using REW. Thanks!
Since you don't use Atmos, You can use your PC as your 5.1 sound source and with free convolution engines like Equalizer APO (for Windows) or Camilla DSP ( for Mac), you can achieve amazing results.
For standalone Audyssey calibration, ART video is great, just invest in MultEQ Ediitor app for Iphone or Android (about 20 quid). You might want watch "Optimize your Immersive Audio" video first for some basics.
Hi OCA. Tested the MultEQ-X curves extractor on 07 30 2024 : It works, but the naming of the files has become bad. The channel name is still OK. But the number is now a combinaison of "random figures". Measurement point #1 seem to be first. For the others ... You have to perform a visual comparison curve by curve between the MultEQ-X GUI and REW to find back your children ;-)
I haven't updated the mqx script for a while. Keep in mind they will not have the correct mic calibration file.
@@ocaudiophile Yep ! But nothing wrong happens under 5kHz.
standard AUdyssey mic has no correction in the calibration file below 3000Hz but purchased calibrated Audyssey mics do.
Another great video, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks again for a very informative video! A few questions/comments:
1. Some of us use a miniDSP 2x4 HD for our subs (you as well?), a video showing your you would deal with that in a Audyssey/Atmos setup would be fantastic.
2. In the middle of this video you mention that you're not doing FDW and psycho acoustic smoothing this time, but later on you do use windowing and psycho acoustic smoothing, so it's still something you recommend right, just a different way of windowing?
3. You have quite a few videos on Audyssey now, and they differ somewhat. If this your latest approach, or is there still something in the previous videos that you would recommend doing for those of us that use the mobile app?
1. There are lots of videos and sites explaining multiple sub adaptation with MiniDSP. I removed my MiniDSP and the second sub from my system. The delays MiniDSP introduces are not manageable by Denon/Marantz speaker distance limits and I can now separately equalize two subs with directional sub mode if I want (that is not in my receiver's menu but can be manipulated with MultEQ Editor app). I will make a video on that at some point if it helps.
2. 20/200Hz is best be eqaulized with 1/48 smoothing, for the rest I still use pa smoothing. FDW is just another way of applying smoothing to remove the effects of reflections and it sure helps the results but this latest method gave the highest clarity (C80) in my tests.
3. EVery new video adds up new information, introduces new REW tools and unfortunately but in fact for the good, some times changes the info given in the past. I try to update description notes and links in the old videos on a best effort basis and I can't really do more. This is a hobby I share knowledge/experience on at the end of the day. I have a totally different day job and zero income from this channel ;)
@@ocaudiophileplease do video on directional sub mode with MultiEQ for two Sub. Will like to get rid of Mini DSP if we can have better timing w my 6015. Thx
Directional sub is only good if you have two subs left and right equal distance from the LP ie by the main speakers and if you'll listen to only stereo because LFE channel is produced from both subs and there's no EQ for the summation of the subs in the system.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for your reply. I understand, I really appreciate the work you do.
Is it best to use custom resolution 48 when exporting as text for the target curve? I use "resolution of measurement" because it includes more detail. Does 48 mean 48khz? Or a certain resolution that Audyssey prefers?
1/48 is the amount of fractional octave band smoothing. See:
www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/graph.html
Okay, Audyssey is limited to 1/12 octave, so after reading that, this is why Psychoacoustic smoothing sounds so good. Because it only uses 1/3 and 1/6 octave of detail. This is a good to know.@@ocaudiophile
First of all, thanks for these comprehensive tutorials. Really means a lot.
However, when i take my meassurements i'm unable to cross-correlation align my meassurements between the meassured postions (L0, L1, L2..).
Most of the peaks seem to barely move and are still (relatively) far apart, though some do align. It looks like your meassurements align pretty perfectly.
I have watched your preferences-settings a thousand times to check, but they seem to match.
I'm using a X3500H receiver with the audyssey mic, but meassured in REW with the built-in REW sweep, using acoustic timing.
Do you have any idea of how one could "debug" this? :)
Thanks a ton!
This is quite unexpected. Cross corr align may seldom get it wrong if the impulse responses are too different with each other but I wouldn't expect that between measurements of the same speaker. There must be major differences between the measurements and I don't readily have an explanation for this. Can you share your mdat file?
@@ocaudiophile - Wow, quick reply! Thanks for taking the time for this. I would really love to learn what i'm doing wrong here.
Here you go, this is uncalibrated and just ordered: drive.google.com/file/d/1Xjvi58zJcQ61ClZ0R0lpdZ9tQZB0Z0UT/view?usp=drive_link
I have only measured 3 positions, LP, left of LP and right of LP
I am not sure what has caused it but your L0, SLA0 and SRA0 measurement impulses start in negative time. Still, cross corr align is working correctly with L responses, moving L1 and L2 over to L0. The vector average of all 3 is a good representation of your left speaker, you can generate correction filters for it. If you want perfect alignment, "remove IR delays" before averaging but the difference will be negligible.
@@ocaudiophile I noticed the negative time myself, and thought it was strange.
It tried to push forward and got some decent results either way I think.
My room is basically untreated so I know I’m fighting a lot against that.
Ideally, I'd remeasure with repeated measurements at the same position eliminating absurd responses and vector average the rest. There's a strange frequency response behavior at around 60Hz in your measurements, could be AC line related. But, you can safely "remove IR delays" from any response before correction, it will not have an effect on the response shape for which you want to create filters.
I wish you - or someone - could write a script to decode/extract the information from .dat files from the old Denon/Marantz receivers. When I open mine in notebad, it looks like a bunch of jibberish, but it would be nice to be able to decode it to possibly change target curves/etc without having to upgrade to a newer receiver for the MultEQ Editor or MultEQ-X.
I tried that of course. The data in the receivers are highly encrypted :(
Thanks for putting all these videos out! But there’s so many that all seem similar. What video would you recommend fallowing to calibrate a 7.2.4 system using a x6700 and editor app
All of them will improve over Audyssey's auto calibration but this one comes with the most sophisticated scripts and method yet.
Hey OCA
I have followed your tutorial through all the steps and am ready to transfer the ady file to my receiver, but the multeq editor app keeps getting stuck in the middle of "analyzing room data" and the progress bar doesn't move at all even though I've been waiting for almost 10 minutes. Has anyone else encountered this problem and do you know what causes it?
btw my system is a 5.1 and my receiver is denon x4800h
check the ady file in the json editor and compare it with the original one. You can see both side by side. Probably you didn't export filters with comma separated values or your Excel regional settings caused a syntax problem. If you can't solve it, share your ady and I will fix it.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for response to me so quickly. I've actually compared ady files in the json editor, but I can't see where I'm going wrong. I can only ask you to help me see what's wrong and fix it for me. Thanks again! Link to ady files: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o5D0xzFwjI0qXxOgHRPdL4Al--lf6ekw?usp=sharing
One more question, how to apply Excel and calibrated ady files at the same time in the receiver, is it to run the Excel ady file corresponding speaker preset first to apply the speaker distance and other parameters, and then run the calibrated ady file corresponding speaker preset to apply the eq?
Can you also share an original (untouched) Audyssey (.ady) measurement?
UploadXLSpeakerSettings2ady.html script uploads Excel file data (saved as .csv) to the ady!
Btw, your ady file lacks data under customSpeakerType and customCrossover boxes! That's what is freezing the app.
When I first create default "perfect speaker" ady file in audyssey app after 3 measurements, do I select "dynamic EQ on" at the end before finalizing and before exporting to my PC? I will be using my own REW measurements (with DEQ on). But the question is: does the perfect speaker ady file need to have DEQ on or off or it does not matter if REW measurements are used and applied over it later after calibration and filters?
Once the perfect speaker version of ady file is transferred to the AVR, Audyssey will not apply any correction. Select Audyssey Reference in the AVR and select DEQ on to whatever settings of your taste. Then take measurements with REW. You can also tick DEQ on in the ady file before you transfer.
Let me make sure I understand this because it's still bugging me. Sorry for complex question, but please bear with me...I created "perfect speaker" ady with EDITOR APP and then I enabled "DEQ ON". Then, I ran my own measurements with REW while AVR was set to "DEQ on" and Audyssey on "reference". Then, I applied all filters and distances / crossovers to the "perfect speaker" ady with your scripts which is now calibrated and sent to EDITOR app before final upload to AVR. In this final step, when I sent the final file to EDITOR APP, the DEQ became "unselected". So, my question is: do I slide "Dynamic EQ" setting back to "ON" in EDITOR APP Audyssey settings BEFORE final upload to AVR? Thank you so much BTW, you rock! @@ocaudiophile
@@Prowler_IMYes you should. Script always turns DEQ off as it's necessary for users who used Audyssey's own measurements.
@ProwlerIM and @OCA, I have a question on taking REW measurements. Should I take REW measurements with REW sweeps or the file OCA has provided? Also, do I need to change crossovers while taking speakers measurement and subwoofer measurements? I am trying to understand if speaker measurements from 0 Hz - 2.4Khz includes sub + speaker response?
You cannot measure Atmos channels with REW's own sweeps. The PCs are limited to 7.1 floor channels. My Atmos sweeps are created to solve that problem. Measure each speaker on its own without subwoofer. With Audyssey, that's the only way as it applies crossover after correction. For stereo systems that can process convolution files (there are videos on this method), measuring mains with subs active and then applying filters to the combination is the right way though. @@spatel30
Hey, OCA, does the Experimental MultEQ-X mic calibration html not work? I don't see a button to process the .mqx file. I can upload the file, but nothing to process it.
Are you using "ExtractAllMeasurements_mqx.html" script?
Another wonderful video, and highly informative, but I do have a few questions about the differences between making the corrections from the MultEQ app vs taking measurements in REW and correcting from that.
For the MultEQ app method: If I am understanding this correctly, you run Audyssey, take measurements of the first three positions, but before finalizing the calibration in Audyssey, do you enable DEQ at the point where it asks you to enable DEQ/MRC/etc... or do you leave DEQ off, and do all of the correcting/filters from the extracted/converted ady file?
For the method of taking all of your measurements in REW: Is the process the same as far as running Audyssey to get the three positions, download the ady from the app to your computer, then extract/convert it to perfect speaker ady file, except you then upload the perfect ady file to the AVR, and then take your REW measurements from the same three positions (or as close as possible) with DEQ enabled set to the MV you have decided as your listening level? I'm asking because at no point in the video are there any measurements taken in REW, the whole process appears to be applying corrections/filters to the extracted/converted ady file, then uploading that to the AVR once it's all done (not a complaint, merely an observation).
Using Audyssey measurements is an obligation for Mac and Auro 3D users as they cannot play Atmos channel sweeps to measure these speakers in their systems. Since these measurements are not taken with DEQ on, the correction filters will also be accurate only with DEQ off setting. DEQ will massively change the bass and HF response at 75dB which is the level Audyssey takes the measurments.
PC users with Dolby Atmos systems are flexible. They can take their own measurements (inmclduign Atmos channels) in REW with their own mics (or Audyssey mic with the calibration file). They still need the MultEQ Editor app to clear all Audyssey measurments and any AUdyssey correction in the receiver. But they can take theri measurements at the level they prefer and with the settings they prefer which includes all variations of DEQ. As long as the target curve and filters are produced with DEQ, they will work as intended at the measurement volume level and DEQ will help positively with different volume levels. You can find details for REW measurement method in Supreme Audyssey video:
ua-cam.com/video/g26gbFdAIxE/v-deo.html
Got a new AVR today- didn't want to pay for MEQ-X. So following guide- There is no "Custom Distance" in my ADY using Json editor. When opening ADY with your converter it gives a new ADY with the measurements. That ADY has Custom Distance of 0. Im also using 6 heights FH/TM/RH so im assuming I can just add that to the excel sheet lol
Congrats on your purchase. Custom settings only show up after you edit something in the app. The scripts will add them regardless. Some apps require distance(not custom distance) setting to be non-zero, if the ady gives error after updates, fill up distances with custom distance values.
You can enter your custom speaker names to XL. It understands every standard Atmos/Auro speaker combination.
Hi OCA, just a few comments:
The MultiEQ App only allows to set the crossovers per pair. How can I set individual crossovers per speaker? Thorough Json?
Another issue is that the "MultEQ Editor app Excel Speaker Settings uploader" doesn't assume the settings that are in the "csv" file. The way that I bypass that was doing the settings manually in the MultiEQ all.
The results are awesome and the Dr Olive Toole Target has a more realistic and smother sound.
Individual crossover setting per speaker is not available with these receivers and shouldn't be needed anyway.
I didn't understand the problem with the csv file?
What I meant is that the Browser script did not change the settings in ady file according with the csv file. So I had to change it manually in the MultEQ App (volume l, distances, speaker size). Maybe I've done something wrong.
OCA, thank you so much for all your amazing work.
I have a few questions which I thought might possibly also assist others who might also be newbies and in a similar position; hopefully my comments/questions make sense!
I have a Denon AVC X-6500H configured in an Auro 3D setup with 7.2.4 speakers. I've completed all of the adjustments as per this latest process. I used your Atmos files for TFR/TFL/TRR/TRL channels; but assigned those results in MultiEq editor (and your spreadsheet) as FHL/FHR/RHL/RHR so as to enable Auro 3D in my receiver.
I have 2 subs both powered via my Kef Kasa500 sub amp, they are positioned directly below the left and right front speakers and I have used SWmix to equalise the pair, whilst measuring their distances etc independently. The results for both were very similar.
My speakers are all Kef Architectural speakers, so all either in wall or in ceiling (Fronts Ci3160RL-THX; Centre Ci4100QL; 2 x Ci200Qsb THX subs with a Kasa500 amp; 4x Ci160QL for surrounds; and 4 x Ci160QR in the ceiling).
Having completed the process the results are amazing, however I wanted to ask where to go next?
I have remeasured the speakers (5x each at the LP, and Cross correlated/Vector averaged). The results look pretty good (not sure how to share these with you?), however they all appear 6-8 Db higher than the house curve/predicted results (initial measures x final filters) and not as flat as hoped. Is this to be expected, or have I possibly done something wrong?
Would the next step be to repeat the process again, and aggregate the results with the initial Multi EQ filters/distances etc?
Separately, as a Roon user I have been looking at your "Digital Speaker and Room correction workshops" and Roon community threads; I am wondering how these convolution filters in Roon might work alongside what I've done in Audysey MultiEq to improve things further for my 2 speaker (+subs) music playback setup through my Mojo2 DAC? I'm assuming the 3rd filter in that process is the same as I have already been through above and is already factored into my Audysey setup, but are the other 3 filters something I should try in a home cinema setup? Do they all make sense to try with in wall speakers? Looking at the detail in this process I am assuming the phase adjustments etc are not something that this MultiEq process has touched?
Apologies for the longwinded/round about post; I've (un)fortunately been bitten by the bug and don't quite no where to go next in an effort to get the best possible results (and not make things worse). I'd love to share my results so far if that's in anyway helpful?
Many thanks
Kevin
Audyssey cannot do phase correction and its EQ filters are limited to 1024 taps. With Roon, you can easily process all kinds of filters (like VBA filters, crossover phase/port phase corrections, etc) for a stereo set up. My stereo amp is connected to the front pre-outs of the AVR and simultaneously connected to a PC/DAC with Roon. Leave the AVR surround setup to Audyssey and optimize stereo setup with Roon using the methods in the workshops (also the more recent phase correction video will be useful).
For Auro 3D, the method intends to use Audyssey's own measurements. I don't have Auro and don't know how you could measure all Auro speakers with REW and apply the method. Audyssey measurements taken at 8 close proximity positions with the stock Audyssey mic will be good enough for a descent calibration though.
You can share google drive links here if you really need to. Anything else will be deleeted by YT.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you that’s really helpful.
Just on the Auro 3D setup; why can’t I configure the Amp as Auro 3D before following your above process in MultiEq to create a perfect speaker file. Then take measurements from REW with UMIK and your Dolby Atmos sweeps. I then rename the height speaker results to be Auro3D compliant eg: rename the Atmos TFR measurement as FHR for the MultiEq file.
Doing it this way seems to allow me to have an Auro 3D configuration and measure all the channels through REW (using your Atmos mapped sweeps). Am I missing something or should this give the correct results; or is there something fundamental about the Atmos sweeps that means they aren’t compatible with Auro 3D.
Thanks
Kevin
Maybe you could. Actually someone in these comments once claimed there's a way to setup Auro configuration with all Atmos sweeps but I just don't have the system to test it. The sweeps are produced with Dolby Atmos renderer and have no relevance to Auro 3D at the source that's why I was a bit cautious. @@MrRobertsonk
@@ocaudiophile Thanks. I’ll give it a try; logically all I’m doing is distance,
Volume and time aligning the speakers using sweeps; so that part should not matter as the atmos sweeps and REW sweeps deliver the same data as I understand it. Equally room EQ from the sweeps data should be fine for those height channels. The only difference as I can see is how the amp/processor sends signals to those speakers post calibration, and for that to be Auro3D you have to “kid” the amp that your front and back ceiling speakers are actually Height speakers. I’m sure the effect won’t be 100% perfect, but my Kef ceiling speakers are pretty omnidirectional so the effect should hopefully be pretty accurate.
One further question on the Roon and stereo setup side.
I don’t have a separate Amp for my audio so will be using the front L and R (+ subs) from my AV receiver for audio playback.
On the basis I complete the multiEq corrections for distance, volume and EQ before moving onto your more detailed phase filters etc; am I correct that it’s still worth creating a further EQ filter for Roon along with the other 3 filters? If I’m understanding your first response you’re saying the EQ via Audesey is good, but can be much further enhanced using the Roon filters?
Thanks again.
Kevin
Hi OCA! You nailed it again!
I've been using the procedures that you taught in your tutorial video "Optimize your Immersive Audio: Atmos and Auro 3D calibration for Mac/PC using Audyssey measurements!". My system never sound so good! 😁
I don't have MultiEq-X. Does this new procedures also can be applied with MultiEq X32 with better results?
Thanks a lot!
Yes, there are small differences in EQ and scripts have evolved. Calibration takes less time.
Thanks a lot for your message and prompt response to your followers 😊 I'll give you feedback about the results
@@ocaudiophileI believe that my Receiver (Denon 8500HA) measures de speed of sound at 300ms. Your Excel file uses 343ms. Using the Right Window size, with 343ms, will affect my sound or is just the same basic mathematical result?
@@miguelmedinaramos you should use 300 in XL, too
@@ocaudiophile I would be great if your Excel file have that option of 343ms of 300ms as it is not editable ;)
Heads up.. The comma delaminated files would not import to Multeq-X the needed to be tab delaminated.. I fixed mine by opening excel and removing the phase then saving and a tab delimited txt
Thanks. You can also export them from REW in tab delimited format.
@@ocaudiophile yep redid everything tonight as I wanted to make some more changes (align subs using your other guys etc) Got to say my setup sounds better than ever!! Thank you for your work.. your extractor for multeq-x etc are game changers for me.. Even though I have a umk1 this just makes it so much easier !
Awesome Vids OCA !!... As a laymen to this I understand its a learning curve , but with each video you change up recommendations etc .. If I was going to follow a video to apply this to my 7.2.4 Atmos system which video would you use or combination of ? Including having two subs front and rear of room with miniDSP 2x4 HD . Thanks.
Align (there's a sub alignment video) and EQ your subs with REW and then every option you've is explained in this video.
@@ocaudiophile Thank You so much for your time and effort to give us all better audio ..
@@ocaudiophile I finally completed my OCA Configuration .. WOW what an amazing experience ... One inquiry though... REW says my distance for sub should be 16.47m... obviously not possible in AVR capped at 7.38m . However I do use a MiniDSP 2x4HD w/dual subs. I used your other video to align them already. Could I add delay to both subs splitting the difference of 9.09m to make up for what the AVR wont accept? Or would that mess up the configuration/OCA'd ady file the AVR now uses ? FYI
One detail is that currently my Rear sub was best in alignment with a 0 delay .to my Front Sub
This is a but complicated but I am sure you can do it. Go to Overlays/Group Delay graph and select all speakers and subs. Smooth everything to 1/1 (or physcoacoustic). You will see that after a certain frequency (above 1000Hz) they will all have a straight line going all the way to 20kHz. And you will also see that subwoofer lines are above the speaker lines. Now, with the mouse right click method measure the distance from the subwoofer line to the speakers' line. This is the optimal distance offset you need to apply to your sub. You will see that this is much lower than 16 metres and doable in the receiver settings, Also in the Overlays/Impulse graph, this will coincide with one of the subwoofer peaks. You can do fine adjustments there if you wish.
@@ocaudiophile That is an awesome tweak... Thank You.. Last thing regarding that.. Would my AVR/APP Sub volume offset change also then ?
Hello OCA,
Yesterday, when I measured again, I noticed that a few certain filters were not working and some elevations were still present. However, the Q factor for these was also 35 or 40.
Could that be a reason, since MultEQ X can only calculate filters with a Q factor of up to 10?
Q factors of 35-40 at bass frequencies are obviously too high for Audyssey. The filter resolution will simply not suffice. Check physcoacoustic smoothing and if the elevations are no longer there, don't worry too much.
I'm currently running your "Supreme Audyssey Calibration" and it sounds great. 2 questions: Will I hear a difference if I try this one? Is your Manual Calibration better or worse than either of these? I have no Atmos. 5.1 only. Thx!
The more recent the video, the better and easier the method due to REW and method improvements. This one includes scripts which accelerates the procedure massively.
Hi, OCA. I haven't watched this video but wanted to thank you for all the other videos. I'm still working through the first video and making FIR filters for Roon. Starting to get the hang of it and OMG, it seems like I've purchased new, more expensive speakers and a new DAC. The clarity and smoothness of the music are greatly improved! My only fear is that I will become an OCA!
Quick question. I've used RePhase to correct my Aria 926 speakers but have a second system with KEF LS50 Metas. Would they need RePhase as the drivers are concentric and I think therefore already in phase?
Thanks. You need to check Kefs phase response to be sure. It's the network that causes shifts not necessarily the position of drivers. Even some active monitors need xo phase correction.
Hey OCA! You replied to a few of my posts in a forum, thanks! I have multiple questions/comments.. I'll separate each one into a new comment...
First, I could not get the 1M sweeps to play correctly in height speakers no matter what configuration, HOWEVER, your 256k sweeps played perfectly. I was using VLC in both cases, and my Denon 4700H had to be in Atmos or Auro mode to work. I verified by physically going to each speaker to feel and observe the drivers moving, and I also would disconnect the wiring to the speaker to confirm. I discovered this issue only after running a full set of sweeps, only to find that the Front and Rear Top speaker were both playing at same time, even with the different fiiles.
I would run the 256k vs 1M back to back and verified that only the 256k sweeps worked... also I tried every single 1M sweep just in case one of them would work for the height speakers.
Comments? Is it possible there is something funny in the VLC files vs the WAV files?
It's been many months since I posted these sweeps and noone to this day had this complaint so it's strange. Did you check if the problem persists with the newer lossless True HD Atmos sweeps in this ua-cam.com/video/xnzyF6Z2D74/v-deo.html video?
Unless you have different versions of the 1M mkv sweeps, those are the ones I used. Who knows, I'll try again, there is lots in audio chain that could go wrong, not the least of which is Windows 10!
I just now downloaded again your lossless mkv files from the "Dolby Atmos REW Sweeps" and the TRR file plays on both Right Top(height) speakers (both front and rear), as does the TFR file. Your 256k length mp4 file work correctly. I can't play the mkv in WMP to see if VLC is the problem.
Don't know what to say about no one else having this issue, but I only realized it after getting pretty far into the process, and entering all the spreadsheet numbers and discovering that all my height speakers had the same distance setting...
I feel bad for you, but I tried all these sweeps myself before posting them and so did many others later. VLC cannot be problem. Problem is I can't try them now because I didn't set up the Atmos in my new flat yet :( I'lll see what I can do to check them with DaVinci this weekend. But again, it's very unlikely that there's a problem with them. It could be Auro settings in your AVR re-routing channels maybe?
Btw, I had top fronts and top rears as my height speakers so they were definitely tested to be correct. If you claimed FWL & FWR which I couldn't test as I don't have them, I'd at least understand.
Hi OCA. What is your latest recommendation on measurement mic placement? Should all measurement be done at MLP, or would you recommend doing 6 inches to the right and 6 inches to the left or so and then doing cross correlation alignment? Or, is it better just to take maybe 6 different measurements and just exact one MLP center position? I tend to sit at MLP, as well as both immediately to the right and to the left of it while watching movies
It really depends on the target area you want to calibrate the sound for. For single person central seating, averaging multiple measurements all done at the MLP will yield the best results. For your specific situation, I guess you could measure 6 inches around the MLP and cross correlate but make sure you take more measurements at the MLP before averaging everything.
Thank you very much for this tutorial, I first thought things would be rather complicated but in the end, it was very understandable and the results are good. Much better than what MultEQ does by itself!
A small question: if the enTargetCurveType must be changed in the original MultEQ ady file which the process is based on, does the whole process need to be redone? I initially had it as 0 to disable any high frequency rolloff, but it messes up the Atmos channel configuration in the receiver for some odd reason.. I had to change the two height speakers I have as Top Front from Top Middle or otherwise the center channel would be output from SL :D Changing the curve type to 1 fixed the issue when testing with the original ady but I was thinking if I can do the same operation to the one I got out of the calib process.
enTargetCurve=0 totally mutes my Marantz SR6015 but some subscribers claim, it worked for them. For any other value it will switch between "High frequency roll off 1" and "High frequency roll off 2" target curves. That only effects very high frequencies and is hardly audible but re-calibration would certainly improve things.
@@ocaudiophile Looks like the response files are identical between the two cases, i.e. it's a flag for the receiver and nothing more. So is there actually some special filtering needed to compensate the rolloff?
I had prepared an anti HFR1 filter in the past. There must be a link to it in one of these video descriptions. But it's quite a tedious task because you have to apply that to each response first (AxB trace arithmetic) and then create the filters from the new response and finally multiply each filter again with anti-HFR1 at the end before exporting to the ady file.@@holefilms4493
Hi OCA it seems the muteq-x extractor stopped working I even tried re downloading it and trying multiple browsers edge, crome, and Firefox
Haven't checked that script for some time but was working up until recetnly. I just launched Evo and quite swamped at the moment but I will look at this when I can.
Sorry if this has been asked/covered previously, but would you perform calibration first and then see what type of acoustic treatments are needed in the space (based on reverberation times), or treat the room prior to a calibration like this?
You cannot filter low frequency peaks (i.e below 100-120Hz) with acoustic treatment. Also the damping material will swallow high frequencies. So DRC will always be necessary IMO.
Looking forward to this one. Thanks!
Hope you enjoy it!
After running the calibration, I've been running some test sweeps on my center and mains at various crossover frequencies. I'm finding that I get the best REW graphical response (highest and smoothest between 20-100hz) when I set the speakers to full range large vs. any crossover setting as a small speaker...which was surprising to me. Are there reasons beyond straight REW graphical response I should consider that would tell me to pick the best crossover setting as a small speaker vs. full range large?
When you set any speaker to Large, if your LFE mode is 'LFE + Main', the sub will stay active and will apply a low pass filter to itself at the greyed out, before switching to 'Large' crossover frequency of the large speaker. Sad but true.
Hi OCA, when I added 7.1.4 channel to your Excel file, Column F, Rows 13 and 14 were missing the formulas.
I fixed it, thanks!
hey OCA, are your 256k measurement sweeps better than the 1m measurement sweeps? What are currently the most accurate files to use?
I wonder this too.
@@mikeortiz2139 exactly. When measuring with files of this much detail, does it matter? Maybe not.
They are identical in terms of properties. 1M measurements will have better signal to noise ratio but 256K measurements are more practical as they take less time.
Good to know. Do you know if there's benefits using 4M measurements vs 1M?@@ocaudiophile
The longer and louder the measurement, the better the S/N ratio so 4M is the best but it takes way too long to measure and the data size slows REW considerably so I hardly ever exceed 1M for resolution@@hdmoviesource
OCA, your subwoofer response showed a huge dip between 40 and 50 hz. Is this something that needs to have additional response correction?
A VBA filter can help with such dips caused by room modes. Check Trinnov vs Dirac ART video.
Ran into a little problem. Set up my 4 upfiring Atmos speakers to "dolby atmos-enabled" in AVR as you suggested. After running perfect speaker measure with editor app and checking ady, it assigned the following names to these dolby speakers (front dolby l/r, back dolby l/r, specifically FDL, FDR, BDL, BDR). However, when using your "Speaker Settings" Excelle file, I can not change TRL and TRR to BDL and BDR - it gives me RED highlight in the channel name column indicating error. Strangely enough, there is no error changing TFL and TFR to FDL and FDR. Since names are important as you said, what do I do? How do I change them in Excell without erroring out?
I've never heard of BDL and BDR and they are not in the hidden list containing speaker position names. You can add them manually if you unhide the data sheet. Password is OCA
Thank you! That worked. I just went by what my AVR assigned to the two back dolby atmos enabled channels. Added to excel sheet and it's all good now.@@ocaudiophile
hi,oca, I've been auditioning my system for a couple of chimes since I successfully EQ my system with your method, and I feel that the vocals are a bit distant and not quite the sound I'm looking for. So I'm checking the post eq curve in REW and it's obvious that there are a couple of big dips in the midrange, so I'd like to ask why the EQ is 0 boost after 200 Hz, what's the principle behind it?
For a couple of reasons. The dips are not nearly as audible as the peaks in real World and they are usually wave cancellations and boosting filters will effect both waves and will not stop the cancellation. Peak energy times of high frequencies will vary massively with IIR filters and degrade the sound even when frequency response seems smooth. Their wavelength is so small, the FR will change too much from one location to the other and the filter might be working negatively just 10cm away from where the mic was during measurement.
@@ocaudiophile I got it, thank you so much! It seems that the mid range problem of my system can be better solved by some acoustical decoration and/or speakers positioning
I wanted to reach out and express my gratitude for the effort you put into creating your speaker equalization tutorial. I followed your steps precisely, aiming to enhance the sound quality of my speakers. However, upon applying the equalization settings, I noticed a change in the spatial quality of the sound that didn’t align with my preferences. Specifically, I found that the adjustments resulted in a reduction of the spaciousness or the width of the soundstage. I wonder if I did something wrong.
Sound stage width is mostly determined with speaker tie-in angle but from your description, I can only think of a distance misalignment between the front mains. REW might have got it wrong if left and right speaker impulse peaks are confusing due to close wall reflections on in side. I'd check that and manually align them if need be.
@@ocaudiophile Hello, thank you for taking the time to answer me. I'll definitely check that, after reading more comments, I'm starting to think that maybe I used the wrong speed of sound. I also had hard time deciding how much to increase the subwoofer SPL in REW before EQ it.
@@ocaudiophileHello. I wanted to give you some news. Rew indeed messed up to align IR peaks because my surround speakers have an inverted peak compare to my mains. So I had to reverse the polarity of my surrounds and the cross correlation gave a good alignment. Also my SR6013 was doing it's calculs at 343m/s and not 300 as I though. So now all your tutorial worked well and the results are audibly superior to audyssey EQ. So thank you so much for your hard work.
Your welcome.
@ocaudiophile, Entered 0 in high freguency roll-off on a Marantz SR 5012. Worked but, when I run sweeps for my Side Surrounds through rew they make no sound. If I sweep Back Surrounds they make sound. I've never used Back Surrounds on this receiver. I looked at the ady in json and they're labelled correctly and the amp assign is the correct name SRA/SLA. I beleive the center is 6 db down but i'd have to look at that again. Crazy how loud the high end is with it off. Any thoughts?
Do any of these "lossless" sweeps have the same problem?
drive.google.com/file/d/1YjQmnqq9slHruUGekggkVn8chk1mHjjS/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1lGFGkomIuUJ56SdOFW5y8k7ahIIZCGRH/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1YTQ8Wq-Moc0Xe8uyljPcDSY0mrau9agL/view?usp=sharing
@@ocaudiophile They do not. They play out of the correct channel. Assuming everything's correct. Thanks!
I was wondering , when creating the filters for the SW1 should I also create an output filter file for my miniDSP 2 x 4?? As per your tutorial my HT sound great, perhaps I should try it and compare.
No need
Hi sir- So I have just made it through the "exporting MultEQ-X mqx measurments" part. I don't have -x , but use the mobile app. Is this saying, I can just take my 8 measurements within the phone app and import them into REW and not have to take the measurements with the umik-1 via REW?
Yes, you can use MultEQ Editor app measurements with the method explained in this and the immersive audio videos.
What am I doing wrong if I followed this method and Audyssey still is applying the high frequency roll off? Is there an easy fix like an inverse Audyssey curve filter to make my created filters stick?
There's an anti-HFR1 filter I shared in one of the video descriptions but I can't remember which one. It needs to be applied twice during filter creation though so the task is a bit cumbersome ;)
Thanks, I'll have to take a look.
Another question: in previous videos you were saying to take measurements with Audyssey app and selecting Dynamic EQ "ON". In this video around 13 minutes you are saying we should have it "off". Which one is it? Do I take app "perfect curve" measurement with dynamic "EQ off", and then take REW measurements with it's at "off" again, or use "dynamic EQ on" for both initial "perfect curve" and my REW measurements later?
Only if you make measuremts with REW, you can keep DEQ on.
When going over the initial REW settings you set the smoothing to "Var smoothing". When looking at your initial measurements, I do however notice that there is no smoothing applied. How does the smoothing in REW really work? Does it just affect the visual representation of the measurement data, or does it also affect all the changes we make when processing the measurement data?
The 1/x smoothing functions are a known method called "fractional octave smoothing" and VAR is the one with variable x smoothing less in the low frequencies and more in the hf region and in that respect suits well to digital filtering. Auto-EQ will only eq what you see on the EQ screen so smoothing amount will change the filter parameters but measurements keep their original resolution at all times. Even though a trace arithmetic operation on a smoothed response will yield to similarly smoothed results visually, they are still not literally smoothed. Only minimum phase versions generated with "replicate data outside range" will not carry its original resolution to the MP version.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you. So for REW preferences, keeping it at "No smoothing" or "Var smoothing" does not really matter until we start doing EQ?
Edit: I do however notice that REW operates faster when the measurements are smoothed, e.g. when re-ordering measurements for the purpose of cross correlation.
User Error: Filter (.txt) file names DID NOT MATCH detected channel names. Please reload the page!
Hi and thanks for your work, I'm convinced that my files are good and named correctly. Is this normal?
I haven't checked lately but the scripts worked fine for many months. There must be something wrong with your file naming. Why don't you just use A1 Evo instead?
Hello good sir- It's been a while. You had helped me a few months ago get my setup all dialed in, but then I added a topset of atmos, so I never really ran that config. I had some family issues going on so I haven't really had time to think about it until now.
I see you have a ton more great videos out. Where should I start now to get the best sound out of my setup? I have a 5.2.4 setup with a denon 3600h, Mini-dsp and the multi EQ phone app.
I look forward to diving back in with the help of your videos.
Audyssey ART video is the latest and contains the best scripts for a good Audyssey setup.
@@ocaudiophile Fantastic. I will have to watch the video today.
Dear OCA.
I just found your channel.
I was going to buy Dirac for my Denon X3800h.
One of your videos said it makes no "sense" till at least DLBC will come out for Denon / Marantz.
I already purchased a Umik-1 and now i really like to go with your REW approach due to i saw so much good comments.
I just saw the "Supreme Audyssey Calibration" and wanted to start with it tomorrow.
Now im a bit corius by just starting this video.
Is there an specific order to see the videos?
Also i got the feeling the newer ones will replace the older ones due to another workflow. Am i right?
Is there a recommended order of view and work by if i want to optimize m 9.2.4 system?
Also a question is, should i leave the "isReversePolarity":true in the "chat" before and after rew measurement files? Will this cause troubles? Should i deal with it before? The speaker itself is on right polarity.
newer videos contain better methods and more automation but all methods improve the sound over standard Audyssey. If you decide to keep speaker polarity as is, keep IsReversePolarity at false.
Great work man! For me the csv import script didn‘t worked… the values weren‘t placed in the ady file.. cheers
Try Audyssey One.
Sadly no sub in the system right now
You are right
Hi OCA, big thanks to your contribution to audio. I tried to do filters according video, but when I tired to send it to receiver, audyssey app show message that file is corrupted. Speakers settings with perfect speaker working fine, but not filters ady, any hints…???
Thanks, regards Ondrej
Are you exporting filters with "comma separated values" from REW? If you get stuck, share your ady file here and I will have a look.
Checking data in json viewer showa all filters data in green color. Will send you ady file.
Hi OCA, I sent an email to your gmail address with ady file.
Hi. I can’t transfer calibrated ady from the app to the receiver. It stops during analyzing. I have this problem with both methods (Inversion Supreme Aud. and also Filter Aud. Art).
I would be very happy if you could help me.
Are you exporting filters from REW with comma separated values and headers/comments "Not icluded"? Compare your original and final ady file in the json editor and you can see what's wrong with your ady.
same for me. Have you figured it out?
Try switching "customDistance" values in the ady file to "Distance" setting under "channelReport" or viceversa! @@gr8nrg187
Sir,although you already answered this question yesterday but can I ask you.....
Q1. Is it still possible to use the method of 2 subwoofer allignments used by you in the video "Optimal Subwoofer Allignment Using Cross Co-relation" and follow the filteration process of the Audyssey ART video to create for the optimal subwoofer Alignments of both my subs??
Yes, you can
Thank you sir❤
Hi OCA, very excited to see how this changes my sound! I don't have the Actions menu shown at 19:08 and therefore cannot select the Cross Corr Align button. Are you able to share which version of REW you're using and which settings you use in the Preferences->View menu? Thanks!
There must be a link in description for REW Early Access version.. If not, google "rew early access"
@@ocaudiophile Thanks!
Thanks for your code for extracting the measurements from mqx file. But the export of the mic calibration data seems to be incorrect. Do you have any new information about that?
You're right. The mic calibration file in the mqx was encrypted differently to the speaker measurement data, I tried decrypting it with various methods and picked the only one that produced readable data. But it still didn't seem to fit well on the graphs hence I called it experimental. You can upload the standard Audyssey mic calibration file to REW before importing measurements. I linked that in the videos. It will not be too much off from the calibrated mics.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for your answer. My intention is not to export the measurements. I would like to import REW mesasurements to the mqx file. But I need correct mic calibration data in the file, the one of my mic or a flat line if I corrected it in REW yet.
Hi! A short FYI from my end on the enTargetCurveType setting
When I set the value to 0, my Marantz Cinema 40 accepts the file without complaining, but there is - as with yours @OCA - no sound at all. Obviously the receiver cannot handle the 0. Tried this a couple of times with different files/measurements and verified the setting being a 0 by sending the file back to my Mac. Also curious is that the target roll off curve in the app is set to "High Frequency Roll Off 2" (having the value set to 0).
Just a quick question, I have ran the calibration and uploaded it to the receiver turned off midrange compresssion, should I leave the MultiEQ on reference, change it to flat or turn it off entirely? many thanks
Only in reference mode, custom target curve points which are in fact your filters, will be applied by Audyssey. Midrange compensation should already be automatically turned off by the script?
when you import the target curves to audyssey multeqx, do you leave auto leveling on ?
also, do you leave all 8 measurements enabled ?
This is a really dumb question, but how do you get the .ady file uploaded to the AVR? I did all of the steps, and I can't seem to be able to get the file uploaded to my AVR.
First you have to send it to Multeq editor app in your phone and then transfer to reciever from there.
@@ocaudiophileThank you - I managed to figure it out shortly after posting the question.
The thing that I wasn't finding was how to get the app to recognize that I uploaded the calibrated back to my phone, but I found the path.
Hi OCA! I'm missing your new videos! This tutorial made my sound system to be like costing thousands of euros. Any more improvements soon for Audissey? ;) Best regards,
I've been moving homes and could not yet complete system setup. There're a few updates in the pipeline to the methods (ie the scripts are not fully compatible with the new 4 sub output receivers, there're slight changes to windowing and smoothing of responses, etc) but they'll need to wait a bit more.
@@ocaudiophile thanks a lot for your update! Good luck ;)
How do you best measure the distance from the MLP to the acoustic reference speaker (to be used as a basis for all the distance calculations)? From the mic to the tweeter with a laser measure?
Apologize for all the questions at once, I'm going through this manual calibration procedure for the first time and questions keep popping up as I go.
I place a rectangular shaped flat box on the top of the speaker at the acoustic center and use a laser measure from the mic tip but even Iphone's "measure" app will give good enough values. Relative distances of speakers between each other is the part where you need accuracy. Inaccuracy of the reference speaker distance will only affect the size of the atmos sound bubble in the room.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you!
When trying to cross correlation align all measurements (including the subwoofers), REW gives me an error message saying that the subwoofer measurements were excluded because of a mismatch in sample rate. I measured all speakers with your Atmos sweeps, and the subwoofers with REW sweeps at 48 KHz, range 0-200 Hz. When I look at the measurement info window, REW says that the sample rate for the subs is 3000 Hz, while it is 48 KHz for the speakers. Do I need to redo my subwoofer measurements and measure in the range 0-24000 Hz?
Update: I tried measuring the subs with 0-24000 Hz range (without -10 dB LFE effects in the AVR, as advised), and it does produce measurements that have a 48 KHz sampling rate. However, REW says the volume is too low when checking levels with the range set to 0-24000 Hz, even though the subs hit 100 dB peak when measuring. Is the volume an issue, or can I ignore REWs warning?
Untick "Decimate IR" in Analysis or else REW will drop sample rate for narrow frequency band measurements like 0-200Hz or measure the subs full range 0-24kHz!
If Atmos sweeps have low volume, you might wanna check if loudness management of any kind is left ON in the AVR. It's on by default and should be turned off. The loudness menu only shows up during Atmos sweeps.
@@ocaudiophile Ah, so there is a setting that causes this. Thank you!
Loudness management is Off. "Check levels" reports good SPL levels when I use REW sweeps in the range 0-200 Hz, but when I set it to 0-24000 Hz it says the volume is too low. When I run the sweeps though, it seems that REW is happy with the SPL. AVR master volume is set to -25 dB, and the sweeps are very loud (100 dB peak).
@@isak6626 makr sure REW's LFE-10dB setting is u ricked in measurement options
@@ocaudiophile It is not ticked. I saw that there is a setting for which speakers to use for "Check levels" in the soundcard preferences (subwoofer or main speakers). Perhaps that is the culprit here....
The mic gain is too high then possibly.
When I took my Audyssey measurements I set Reference Level Offset to 0.0dB and Low Frequency Effects to -10.0dB. And reversed after calibration, Was that correct? Also, should Audyssey be kept off, after calibration? BTW, Thank you for all your endeavors on this subject. My cinema has never sound better!
Yes, that was correct. If there was a 10dB error in subwoofer setting, you will certainly hear it anyway :)
AUdyssey should always be on and at reference but if you used Audyssey app measurements rather than your own then you should turn off Dynamic EQ. If you measured all speakers yourself in REW with Audyssey DYnamic EQ on then you can keep it on after calibration so you will have low volume adjustments done by Audyssey automatically.
Thanks again for your help earlier. I followed the process as you advised and ended up with a curve that looks like this within the audyssey app does that look somewhat too erratic or fairly normal? As these measurements were made in app with the audyssey mic am I supposed to add a profile at the end or something ? Thanks
Forgot to add the image drive.google.com/file/d/1wbmaKb6hLRPRTNg_IZRsyxpawiCRr0iY/view?usp=sharing
This curve is normal, it's the filters which will be applied to that speaker, it's not the target response curve.
Hello, very cool video. Can I ask a few questions? I have an av marantz sr5015 using the audyssey mobile application, I pulled out a file with graphs from the application, edited everything according to your video, and when I throw the file back from the mobile application to av, the download reaches the process (room correction) and at this stage it weighs, then the file not transmitted to av. And in the mobile application, these graphs are also not displayed. Can you suggest what should be done? Or is it impossible to carry out such a correction with my av?
Can you share your ady file with a Google drive download link here :
@@ocaudiophile drive.google.com/file/d/1jUzvdo4KpQu8nZfqrOjlL2wJ0FIbYwjF/view?usp=drivesdk
There are a couple of problems with your ady file:
1. CustomTargetCurvePoints have been imported with the Freq and SPL titles in the first row
2. No customDistance or customLevel setting exist and all distances are entered in the distance property instead.
3. Speakers have not been converted to perfect response (1,0,0,0...)
None of these are results of any script supplie with this video. You must be using some other scripts, exporting filters from REW incorrectly and making manual entries.
Hi) with your help, I figured out where I made a mistake, I was so delighted with your lesson and so wanted to repeat that I got confused about the files, because of this this problem happened. Thank you very much for your help, and for responding so quickly🤝
And I understand correctly that the setting would work, do you need to uncheck Dynamic EQ?
Hello there an thank you for your great work, in the video Supreme Audyssey Calibration by OCA we have calculated our crossovers a bit different. Which way of calculation do you recommend? The Vectoraverage and then blending or just the intersection points?
Thanks. Ideally, cross them over at their spec -3/-6dB bass roll off frequency but due to lack of phase alignment with Audyssey, this might cause dips and peaks in the combined response. WIth Audyssy, your optimal option is to measure different XO points and pick the one with the smoothest response.
@@ocaudiophile So, merging the vector average of a pair to the subwoofer and blending it is the beter way? Anathor question, how do I create my own target curve slope for every speaker? Have you mentioned it in some of your videos?
@@miroslavpetkov9895 Your only options is copying visually from a public lab test of your speakers if any.
@@ocaudiophileThanks, but how do I create the slope in Raw? Can you give me a link to a video or something?
I did mine by fitting a 4th degree polynomial after visually extracting a couple of intersection points. There are online tools that you can do that with. I don't remember which one I used really. Once you have a similar curve, import it as txt file to REW and use it as a target curve. @@miroslavpetkov9895
@ocaudiophile If managing the subs through a minidsp, is the best way to have a filter for the rew/ady script, is to create a filter in eq with no filters applied such that it makes a pure impulse filter? Spl level of eq doesn't matter, so I can use the same pure impulse filter if I recalibrate?
Yes just delete any customCurveedit points from SW1 and make sure it has [1,0,0,0.....] perfect speaker response and Audyssey will not touch the sub other than delay and volume.
@ocaudiophile Right on. I will take a look and make sure. Appreciate it.
Hi OCA,
Hope you have had a good Christmas.
I am wondering if you could do a tutorial to show how you would do this optimally for those of us that have 2 subs but SWMIX?
I know it EQs them together but does time delay separately. How can we do this the best way?
When I did this I got quite a few that said there was no filter to be added so im not sure that I did something correctly or this was not the optimal way of doing it for me. I had only good results when I used your Supreme Audyssey Calibration method.
Is using filters like this better than that way? the other method seemed a lot more specific?
I am using MultEQ Editor app
Thanks!
The scripts work with SWMIX, too. The second sub's trim and delay levels should be kept as is if you're using Audyssey's own measurements. If you use REW and measure each sub separately then even a better combined sub response can be achieved. Share your ady and I will have a look.
@@ocaudiophile I have since redone a calibration. FYI they have removed SWMIX and they have just labelled them SW1 and SW2. the target curve is put in SW1 but the distances etc for SW2 is in the one labelled as such.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_UhR1C0MRnL8PSJiur3MAfCpFgsoG09A?usp=sharing
Hi OCA great Videos. I really appreciate your work. I use a marantz 7706 pre Amp. It has two sub outs. but I only use one output for my DBA. The DBA has a behringer DSP for external correction (AD/DA loss included). As I watch your videos here: Is it possible to use both outs to correct the DBA within Audyssey directly and get rid of the external DSP. 1. Out Front Array, 2. Out Rear Array. Correction might be much better with a REW filter.
Yes, you can separately EQ two subs connected directly to the Marantz if you switch to directional sub mode. You will need MultEQ Editor app if it's not in the menu options in the receiver (my SR6015 doesn't have it in the menu but it can be manuipulated throught the app). There should be more infor on that in these notes:
drive.google.com/file/d/14gm10Ls-H_K4DxuzWo_m_dDBzdZEgj4b/view?usp=sharing
Hi, for the 200hz to 500hz filter can you confirm you use pychoacoustic smoothing instead of 1/48 as per the previous video. Thanks.
Confirmed! Your attention is exceptional ;)
Do you no longer use FDW?
FDW is a shortcut and it gives good results, this method is the harder but better way.
Excellent video! Question: I have non-traditional ATMOS speakers in 7.1.4 setup (Klipsch RA-140SA). They are not down-firing ceiling installed, but rarher up-firing and sitting on top of my FL/FR and SBL / SBR. Would you recommend setting them up as front/rear top firing or front / rear heights and why? Thanks!
They need to be selected as "Atmos enabled" speakers in amp assign because the distance to ceiling needs to be added as they will reflect from the ceiling. But I suggest you find a way to hang up the walls and use them as front/rear heights for proper Atmos sound.
in my AVR settings I can select any of the 3 "Atmos-enabled" options: Top speakers, Height speakers and Dolby speakers. Seems that according to diagram, my upfiring ones are "Dolby" which are Atmos enabled, not height or top. But for purposes of measurements I would still use your Atmos sweeps which are TFL/TFR, TRL/TRR? @@ocaudiophile
@@Prowler_IM No you can use the exact nanes your AVR gives them. All white cells in the Excel are editable by user
Second issue....
I found that I could never get propper IR alignment of all speakers at once using REW's tool, a couple of them would be out of phase. So, assuming that REW was working correctly, I had to reverse polarity on my Center, Front Right, and Surround Right. Once I did that, and re-ran the sweeps, all speakers aligned "harmoniously"!
Was that the right thing to do? (switching polarity to make REW look pretty)
Thanks!
Well... listening to music in stereo mode, it's definitely out of phase with FR reversed, maybe audyssey is doing something weird?
Impulse peaks pointing at the same direction is a nice thing to have but doesn't always mean they are in phase especially if you have different brand/model speakers. Best way is to compare them in Overlays/phase. A new video is starting in 15 minutes, there's instructions on how to check for correct polarity in there.
I saw that vid on my feed earlier before it went live... I'll watch it for sure. Thanks.
I think I understand a bit better... phase alignment is not necessarily the same as IR peak alignment, i.e., not all the peaks may line up in same direction, but the phases will be correct ? Or more correctly to say, peaks will align, but might point 180 degrees apart?
Yes and yes!
When all the measurements have been made using Audyssey/MultEQ and processed in REW like in this video, can Dynamic EQ be turned on in the receiver afterwards or will it mess something up?
It is going to boost the bass and treble.
Rewatching everything so I can do this right the first time. When calculating the distance of the center channel. Do I just pull that out of a previous audyssey measurement? I'm assuming that is not correct since my Mic will not be in the exact same spot when doing the REW measurements. Or what is the best method?
If your system has crosstalk, you will see the acoustic reference chirp in the impulse response which will show the exact distance to all your speakers. MOst often, you will not have that so you have to pick one of the speakers for which you know the exact distance between the MLP and that speaker of. Center speaker is usually the easiest to measure accurately. You don't have to be very accurate either, it's the relative distances of speakers that make the great Atmos bubble consistency.