Moab Trails Closed I Hey Joe Canyon I Mashed Potatoes I Hell Roaring Canyon I 7-Up I Fight Back I
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- We need your help to fight the BLM Moab trail closures. The recent BLM decision closed over 300 miles of trails near Labyrinth Canyon and Gemini Bridges. Watch the video for the details, and follow the links below for more information.
Blue Ribbon: www.sharetrail...
Patrick's Arc Gis: pmckay.maps.ar...
RS 2477 Utah: publiclands.ut...
Subscribe: / @keeptrailsopen
They keep closing trails to motorized and its not fair to people like me who are disabled, i cant hike up those hills and trek in, so now they are taking my freedom to enjoy the national forests and lands away from me doing these closures.
You are right. Public Land is not reserved for a select, elite group. It should be enjoyed by everyone.
Amen, Jeeps became the only way we could access the wonders of the red rock country.
This is by design.. the oligarch’s agenda doesn’t care that disabled people can’t explore these areas, they don’t want humans in these areas period. 30 by 30. So in six years the US will be at 30% of land that cannot be used/accessed by the public, that’s going to be up from about 12% currently. Tyrants run this world and they have no reserve to murder you if you don’t like it.
Same for elderly people who once loved hiking and camping but now can only enjoy the outdoors via motorized access.
@@WilliamAArnett Exactly, When we could no longer hike, we bought a new Rubicon and spent more than 10K making it capable of wheeling most of the trails in Utah.
Yours is an extremely well presented overview of what SUWA and the BLM have come up with as a “resolution” to this “problem”. As a dedicated mountain biker, I see the same problem on the horizon due to the expansion of trail use since the E-bike came on the scene. As both a wilderness advocate and an avid off-road user, I find myself straddling the fence on the BLM
closure issue. I’ve been an avid off-road vehicle user since the 1970s, I’ve been an avid mountain biker since the 80s, and I’ve been an avid wilderness user/camper/hiker since the day I could walk out and hike on my own(yep, 1970’s again). I still ride and hike and kayak and fish as much as I did in my 20s. I’m currently in my mid-60s and enjoying all that America has to offer in the way of wilderness areas, dedicated forests, national monuments, you name it. I’ve driven nothing but 4x4’s since the 70’s and have ridden dirt bikes just as long. I have seen the tremendous, and I mean tremendous, increase in off-road use since the 70’s and the bottom line is, that’s what is leading to this expansion of wilderness areas and the preservation effort associated with it. If you want to put it bluntly, too many rats in a cage. We have too many people trying to do the same thing at the same time, and unfortunately, in this case, the same place. The minimalists, the wilderness people, want things kept as they were. I get it. I dig on silence, I dig on solitude, and I really appreciate the fact that I’m not bringing the masses with me when I go out and try and get away from it all. Respect that. I’ve seen the increase in the crowds, in the insanity of it all wherever I go. The river, the sand dunes, the beaches, the dry lakes, the hiking trails in the sierras, the dirt-bike trails up in the woods, and what used to be some of the best kept secrets around, places like Moab. With all these users, and all this pressure on our environment, we’re going to have to give up something in order to preserve something else. We all have to be good stewards of our environment, so as not to offend others who are also trying to use the same environment to their pleasure as well. I can say, most newbies I’ve seen in the past 20
years are not good stewards of their environment. Trash, noise, wanton disregard for others’ privacy or solitude, no idea what leave no trace means. This is all a product of too many people not being educated on what they’re doing and where they are. That, my friends, is what’s going on here. Let’s just be happy with what we have left. Let’s enjoy it. We are damn fortunate to have what we have. Love it. Be good stewards.
I agree with your thoughts, and I experienced many similarities growing up in the Colorado backcountry before recreation was mainstream. I do, however, differ in that I don't think we should feel fortunate for what we have left regarding public land access. There are many issues with behavior and ethics, as you state, but there are also larger powers at work here that are operating under climate change, Wilderness expansion, the 30x30 initiative, and numerous other measures that are aimed at controlling where people can and can't go. Public land is caught in the middle, and we are all losing in this predicament.
One of the best statements ive read. As an offroad enthusiast. (Jeep 1st gear low range mostly) i think we all have bad apples that stand out from our crowds. But as far a closures. The too many rats in one place analogy becomes worse. Maybe limiting admission into these places should be considered. I know here in washington there are permit hikes to keep traffic low. What do you think?
I'm an Advocate for mountain biking and we have the exact same issues. They have us blaming the equestrians for erosion, and then they have the equestrians blame us. It's the divide and conquered. Each group presents them with the evidence they need and they then close the trail for all. They call it here "Restoration". Restoration sounds good to the uninformed, but the results is, they use the evidence to close areas for restoration. This isn't what people intended to happen when they agreed to let these land Nazis be in charge. The areas being closed off is the result when those government agencies whom have never even been in the areas they are overseeing, need to assert their control. They need to present results to continue justifying getting a pay check.
One of the areas they closed off for restoration and study, after 10 years of this action, the park supervisors claimed, "No one used the area anymore" and so they justified selling it off. It's all houses now.
So keep fighting!!!
E Bikes bring more issues, yes. We have them here cutting trees down to widen the trails, speeding by walkers and joggers, and just tearing things up. An issue the park overseers need to address separately, instead of blaming all users for the Complaints and damage. They do like to bundle. Good Luck.
So you think people should lay down and let the areas that are left see more users? How does that make sense?
If you’re worried about too many people and wanting to cut down the amount of people visiting, you’re talking a Chinese style one child policy which is a whole other issue. That’s a fact because humans will recreate.
And who’s to say that the 50’s and 60’s level of visitation wasn’t better than the …70’s and 80’s? In other words, you can go back really far when the only people visiting were Native Americans…and further back really. Where does it end. So either control population or teach people to be better stewards.
Taking their freedoms will be the death of a thousand cuts eventually and people will get tired of that…maybe disrespecting the lands even more because they never got visit to appreciate them. Because there are some who won’t stop until there’s nobody out there…but maybe themselves. Sounds pretty elitist but that’s reality. They see themselves as the heroes for the land and nobody else loves it more than they do. It gives them purpose.
@@odysseyusa Preservation of the wilderness and all it's glory is the first priority. Our groups are responsible for certain areas. We maintain the areas as best as possible. Picking up trash, stopping erosion and replanting and repairing damage. Over crowding can be reduced making those areas only accessible with a valid permit. Signage explaining to the users to stay on the trails and not to abuse anything. Penalties need to be enforced and be severer to those who intentionally disregard them, but proportional to the persons livelihood. Reeducation and sentenced to trail care for X amount of days does change people to begin to understand the importance of the wilderness. Preservation is everything of what we have left, but blocking it off isn't the answer.
10 years ago I went to Moab for a few trails and saw that the gemini bridges was roped off about 300 feet from them and walking traffic only. I think back to 1988 when I could drive my red Toyota pickup over the narrow passage on top of the GB. Also, going up the frontside of Lion's Back and down the risky backside. A Moab local....his name slips my mind at the moment.....we used to raise some hell out there in the 1990's ..... The memories .....lot less people and usage then..... the good ole days.
This is going to squeeze all those vehicles into a smaller area, which is going to have a greater impact and create a whole new set of problems.
Totally agree.
Blm won’t see it that way
This is a 100% accurate statement/video and we need to stand together as the OHV community. ALL users and yes ALL users need to learn trail etiquette. 38:53 is what the major platform SUWA and other are standing on. SUWA and the Utah Wilderness group IS THE PROBLEM and Blue Ribbon Coalition has been trying to fight them and we need to support them.
Marcus I hope this video reached the whole OHV community. Great Job!!
Thank you!
Well said! Marcus, I’ll share this to my community tomorrow… I really hope more off-roaders/overlanders hear this.
Thank you.
Stop voting Democrat
I watched the Sierra Club and Dianne Feinstein do this exact same thing with the Desert protection act in the Mojave. Their only goal is to stop access to the area. There is absolutely no other purpose for it. I camped out there since I was a kid, and there was so little traffic in the area, the act served no purpose. BUT, her husbands mining company operating in what would have been in the "protected" area got exempted and carved out to continue strip mining. Ironic isn't it?
Once they make it winderness area, they will then change it to a national park just like the did with the Desert protection act. More proof it's garbage, is they then carved out a huge section at the NV boarder to build solar generation plants. Also connected to her husbands construction company by the way. Can't drive a vehicle down a road that's been there for 100 years, but we can bulldoze it for solar power. So it isn't about the environment, it isn't about noise, it isn't about pollution, it isn't about erosion. It's about closing the lands, that's all.
Oh I should also add, the same area where I camped that had nothing more than an outhouse, now has a giant visitors center, with an entire grid of RV parking and roads carved out, with Diesel generators running to climate control the visitor center and power all the RV hookups. The same roads that were dirt in the 80's are now fully paved. Because that's better for the environment too right?
Totally ridiculous. The hypocrisy is everywhere.
they obviously don't understand the destination IS NOT the goal, but the TRAVEL to and from is where the challenge/experience lies.
Correct. They need to listen to the people using the land.
Thanks for the update and your clear detailed explanation, Marcus.
For sure! Thanks for watching.
I was just out there a month ago on those exact trails. I saw not a soul the entire time and while doing Hey Joe Canyon, I saw two paddlers and they were super friendly. This is a sad moment for all 4x4's.
Thanks Marcus for the video 🤙🏻
For sure! I almost always experience that same thing; other recreation users are friendly and happy to be out. The BLM and other staff should get in the field more to experience this for themselves instead of making us out to be adversaries.
@keeptrailsopen I couldn't agree more. Sadly, it happens too many times that the people who make huge decisions that affect many are the ones who never take part or experience that activity.
@@keeptrailsopen Don't forget where they get their orders from.. Most BLM employees I know are real people who like to have fun, hunt and fish.
@@SegoMan, for sure. There are still a lot of good line officers at the FS and BLM that support multi-use and sustained yield from public land.
I'm a dirt biker, jeeper, camper, overlander. Been doing it for 30 plus years, in my opinion it's the new comers in all things that think it's just a free for all. In recent years everything is so much more accessible with money
Newcomers and those who don't know how to act accordingly are an issue everywhere, what happened in Utah is politically motivated and backed by the highest levels of our government.
I find myself having to parrot this multiple times per week. This was a product of government overreach, nothing more. I will continue to educate the masses to prevent a civil war among the users in our sport.
Thank you, it's going to take all of us to get our users on the same page.
I was out there a month ago as well. We were on Poison Spider and seen a large group of SXS riders. They were extremely nice but all of them were drinking. That is my biggest gripe...the drinking.
Very well stated. They never give up. As my friend likes to say, "They (environmentalists) only have to buy hiking shoes." We spend a lot of money on vehicles and equipment. They have a lot more money to donate to organizations like SUWA and Sierra Club. We as individuals and clubs need to financially support (donate to) Blue Ribbon Coalition in their fight. Simple as that.
Well done! I think you are a 110% correct!
Thank you!
The best way to reduce overuse is to expand the areas available for use. I live in the southeast part of the US, so we don't have nearly as much public land. What we are seeing is people using private land to set up dedicated offroad parks. Some are more focused on trails while some others cater to mud riding.
You are right. Confining more users now than ever into smaller areas is a big problem.
Thank you for bringing this to light. I knew organizations were pushing for trail closures, but I had no idea they were that aggressive. I'm surprised the big YT channels are mute on this. I just moved to Colorado to enjoy the wonderful recreation in the area, including exploring by 4x4. So of course I'm vested in keeping public access. If you're open to it, I'd like to interview you to help spread awareness and next steps.
Absolutely! Send me an email: marcus@keeptrailsopen.com, happy to do an interview.
This has been in the works for some time now. BlueRibbon Coalition has been talking about this since the very beginning and every time I would tag all these "influencers" (fake AF!) and not once did they ever talk about it in their videos here or on IG or anywhere else. But now I bet you they will talk about it and try to monetize off of it the same way they try to monetize off all the other public lands but don't do shit to advocate to keep them open.
I hear you brother I’m from SoCal and hurt when the environmentalist shut down piano beach that I wanted my kids to enjoy. I’m my opinion it’s going to happen throughout the country because of the “climate change” agenda. All we can do is slow down the process.
I was in Moab a week ago. Had to take the Utah OHV course before renting a SXS to do Hell's Revenge. While on that trail, we stopped for the view of the Colorado River. Also there was a Humvee tour group. I overheard the Humvee driver telling one of his customers about juniper berries and that one of the taverns in Moab makes something with the berries. What really caught my ear was when the driver said "but we don't patronize that tavern because they are anti offroading". So it appears that there is a quiet war going on in Moab concerning offroading. My observation was that there were probably just as many offroaders in Moab as there were tourists for the Arches National Park. So here's a town whose economy prospers from offroading having a fued about offroading.
Before arriving in Moab, we stopped at Hovenveep National Monument. while there we noticed a different type of soil, called cryptobiotic soil, that is critical to the ecosystem out there. If you step on it, you kill it.
The day before doing Hell's Revenge we went to Arches National Park. The afternoon after we did Hell's Revenge we went to Dead Horse Point State Park. At both places there are signs that mention cryptobiotic soil but apparently the tourists don't pay any attention to them. We looked for the cryptobiotic soil at both locations and didn't find it. At both locations, tourists are walking cross country off the trails, there are footprints everywhere, and the cryptobiotic soil has been killed.
So it struck me that as an offroader I had to take a course where staying on the trail, packing out trash, picking up other people's trash that we come across ,etc is emphasized several times. And you know, we stayed on the trail. Yet the real damage appears to be happening where offroad vehicles are not allowed and tourists, on foot, are crushing the crytobiotic soil as they race to get the next photo op of them standing beside a rock.
The land use war in Utah dates back to the 70's and the beginning of the environmental movement. The groups wanting to lock the public out of public land do not care about local economies or lost revenue; they are more that willing to sacrifice that in the quest for their outcome. There are certainly establishments that agree with this push, but some are duped into supporting 'conservation' and 'protection' that do not support locking the public out of public land. It's really a propaganda war.
Thank you Marcus, I’m featuring your video to inform everyone about these closures and how they can take action to support UPLA. UPLA has committed to match the first $50,000 in donations to BRC
Thank you!
You are spot on that this is part of the effort to make this wilderness at any cost. I've been involved with wilderness bills, designation etc. Make no mistake that this area will be proposed as wilderness in the near future. You are correct in that the decision was made prior to this being a discussion and public input. There are many solutions that require very little BLM management. I.E. permit systems to control the number of all users. When ideas like that are not put in place or discussed then the issue is the ultimate goal of one user group demanding their experience be greater than others. Environmental impact needs to be the driving decision process and each trail/road etc. needs to have environmental impacts identified. Due to the remote nature of the area it is unlikely that non motorized/mechanized users use much of this area. You have a vast knowledge of interpersonal conflicts as well as user impact on trails. This video is a must watch for anyone concerned about any form of public land recreation as there are people who feel that their desired use is more important than any other use. To summarize, there are some whose goal is no use at all.
Thanks for watching and for your comments.
Advise people to stop voting Democrat because they are on a warpath to shut down our recreational areas
they want us fighting, all offroaders, of any type, need to come together on this issue or we will all lose it. Also the board behind you... everyone of those manufactures needs to put something towards the fight too, not just sit back in silence.
Here in AZ many trails and lands have been closed because of the ATV and side by side community. Alot of private lands that we could cross are no longer open because of them! It's a fact here in AZ.
The SxS community does cause issues as I said, but this is a distraction specifically to the Gemini Bridges/Labyrinth Canyon Decision.
This guy is good. Subscribed
Thanks for watching!
Keep the the information coming!
For sure!
Very sad to see. Will Hey Joe Canyon still be used for cattle grazing? They do much more “damage” to that span of riverfront than any OHV.
Good question. Not immediately sure about grazing.
Proper grazing is a necassarry part of proper range management, they keep vegetation down which helps prevents wild land fires. Nutrients are spreed with their fertilizer. Cows are the least of our concerns here..
i’m 30 minutes into this and just got to closing hey joe so that canoeists don’t see or hear cars. A. i’m a liberal and that revelation definitely just nudged me a bit more right. B. i raft, i kayak, i love the river but did they survey users of the river to get their opinion to support this or did they just say “how can we push the buck to other people, ah yes canoes are something people on rivers use, let’s use that as an example” They would have been better off saying rafting groups to dissuade this line of thinking. I know one person across my whole life of camping, rafting, kayaking, off-roading ONE PERSON! who has canoed the colorado. He’s one of the most badass, rough riding, kind hearted humans on the planet and i know for damn sure his wife dropped him off to start the trip in a lifted 1994 f250 on 37s. canoeists was a bad example SUWA, canoeists sounds nerdy if you don’t know any, and then you meet them to find out they’re the craziest SOBs on the planet and want everyone else to be able to get outdoor adrenaline like them.
Thanks for watching, and you bring up a good point. I should have said that I don't know if there is any consensus from the boating community that wanted motorized closures or that they despised the chance that they might hear a motorized vehicle. However, in the route justifications for the decision, the BLM did list motorized users' potential impact on non-motorized river users (and that conflict) as a reason for closure. So, the BLM kind of pigeonholed the boating community somewhat as the justification.
I stopped wheeling in those areas back in the 90's, because there seemed to be getting too many people out there then. Jump ahead 20 years, especially with the proliferation of UTV's, the hand writing was on the wall and this does not surprise me at all.
Like he said it's a little traveled area. This area is much lowered traveled than trails like Hells Revenge, Gemini Bridges was pretty lightly traveled comparison.
Thanks for the information. I joined the BRC in 1999 after seeing groups try to ban snowmobiles from Yellowstone. Their motto is “champion responsible use of public lands for the benefit of all recreationists”
I'm an Advocate for mountain biking and we have the exact same issues. They have us blaming the equestrians for erosion, and then they have the equestrians blame us. It's the divide and conquered. Each group presents them with the evidence they need and they then close the trail for all. They call it here "Restoration". Restoration sounds good to the uninformed, but then the results, closing areas for restoration, isn't what people intended to happen. When those who have never even been in the areas they are overseeing, need to assert their control. I guess they need to present their superiors with results to continue getting a pay check.
One of the areas they closed off for restoration and study, after 10 years of this action, the park supervisors claimed, "No one used the area anymore" and so they justified selling it off. It's all houses now.
So keep fighting!!!
Most places have wilderness areas that youre barely allowed to walk on. Public land was dedicated to the public for all times. Now that more of the public is using it. They are insistent on closing it off. I dont know what gives them the grounds.
So glad we spent some time on the trails in that area this year. They are beautiful and quite isolated. We rarely saw anyone on our days on the trails. We cover a lot of miles in the back country and see so few people. What is sad is that these trails are closed just concentrating the growing user base onto few trails. I have never had a complaint about side by sides or any other trail users. We have mountain biked, hiked and Jeeped all over Moab. We have only ever had polite and pleasant encounters with users of any kind. I do applaud the BLM for closing some backcountry sites and creating some organized sites. This has greatly improved the camping for those of us who use backcountry sites. The backcountry sites have been much cleaner, less damaged and not as heavily used as we used to see years ago.
Most Moab visitors rarely go more than a mile or two from the trailhead. We need those remote backcountry trails to get us better separated from these inexperienced/casual users. The conflicts generally happen in those early miles of the trails. The trash, noise, conflicts and congestion happens in the first few miles of the trails.
SxS's have sank this ship, as a dirt biker/DS rider who is respectful to all including the land from a use standpoint, the SxS users do not do the same bye and large. The SxS group have tore up everything and accelerated this issue. The damage they have caused is hard to ignore.
Agreed. Their user group needs a significant intervention, but there are also groups whose mission is to lock everyone out of public land.
"frankly, anyone outside of the SXS community" nailed it 🤣🤣
Thank you for posting. QFT! Sharing this with wheeling friends and others! sub'd. 👍
Thank you!
I'm just getting to the point of ignoring signs and barricades as a form of noncompliance. I didn't like that idea but SUWA or other similar organizations have already been caught red handed closing roads illegally to try show that roads are being reclaimed due to a lack of use.
I didn't think I've ever come across your channel before but your explanation was good and that GIS map was awesome. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Thanks for watching!
This is a great video. Thank you for taking the time. One thing i would like to point out. Two things can be true at the same time. SUWA can be playing a long term startegy and the behaviors of the sxs crowd can and are making it easier for them to come up with seemingly legitimate excuses.
I agree for the most part. I'm a jeep and SXS guy. I can't stand this SXS culture for the most part. Most of them can't go out without getting drunk while their riding. They go off trails and are just a-holes. My wife and I ride by ourselves for the most part because of these idiots. We jeep in Moab and usually stay on obscure trails and don't see anyone else. We love Poison Spider Mesa and Hells Revenge area but mostly just avoid the crowded areas.
The problem is many no longer will take responsibility for their actions as well as not having any respect for their surroundings. The way I see it, you abuse it, you loose it. And that applies to anything. It only takes some to mess it up for everyone. Be responsible and respectful to everything and everyone if you want to keep the privileges you have.
Generally speaking, as to human behavior on public land, you are correct. We have caused many issues that could be avoided with good decision-making. This is true for all user groups. However, the Utah decision is, in many instances, outside this avenue. The BLM cited 'roads that go nowhere,' 'duplicate routes,' and 'roads that nobody is using' as justification for the closure. Those are not user-caused issues but are being used to justify the desired end result, closure.
This is partly true....maybe 30% (I am being generous here) the other 70% is a strawman argument that those advocating for the closure want you to believe. Read the BLM proposal and just don't pass along talking points.
Is long canyon included in the closed list. Just curious.
Long Canyon is not on the closure list. But, Day Canyon Point, which is the next trail to the north from Long Canyon is on the closure list, unfortunately.
I hope this statement does not fall on deaf ears. While I'm sad 😢 SUWA got this victory I'm not surprised, and sadly I think this is only the beginning. Utvs make themselves and easy target, just on not picking up brokenbelts, going off trail, and no trail etiquette gives SUWA enough ammo to punish people that have been exploring Utah for 3 generations. Sadly people like that are turning into a minority with the vast majority of off-road users coming in the last 10 years, all they need to go off-roading is a bank loan, or a rental to get a UTV. My father and his friends spent 1000s of hours of his life building dune buggies so he could take his family out on the trails, because of this we learned cleanup after ourselves, stay on the trail, and be mindful of others while riding. I know most people in the buggy community are sick of the UTV mafia being abusive with the trails, and im willing to bet the 4x4 community that spends 1000s of hours working on the rigs agree that unless there is a culture change in how UTVs behave themselves this is only the beginning of closures.
mountain bikers leave by far more trash on the trails than any sxs group,, see it first hand all the time and have to pickup after them..
I hate this idea so much, it's fundamentally anti American. Just because a few bad people do something bad doesn't mean the whole group should be punished.
@@mrfst450 the sad reality of the situation is 1 bad egg in 1000 is enough for these environmental types to keep pressing forward. I'm simply pointing out the side by side community make themselves an easy target, and side by sides are the majority of off-road users now.
I live on the east coast and wanted to go to Utah for 20 years and finally got out to Utah 2 years ago and had a blast but living on the east coast and seeing all our trails closing I sure hate to see this happen out west , can’t the AMA get involved to help ?
The AMA is indirectly connected to our fight in Utah. Our appeal represents four organizations. The TPA, COHVCO, RwR, and CORE. The Executive Director for RwR is on the AMA board.
Something else you might want to watch out for - a couple years ago me and a friend caught park rangers dumping trash themselves so that they could have an excuse to close a section public land here in West Virginia.
WHAT ARE UR TENETS OF OVERUSE OR ABUSE OF PUBLIC LANDS?
300 miles is a lot of trails to lose.
These are children who never learned to share. I sail my sailboat on a very popular power boat lake. My sailboat is dead quiet, creates almost no wake. BUT am I bothered by the power boats? NO. They have the right to use the lake, just like I do. We share the lake. I am not more important than the power boat user. We all have the right to use the lake. Same with the Moab. Everyone has the right to use it, not just a select few canoers.
That is a good point, and I agree with you. There are many additional examples of recreators being close to one another and still being able to respect one another.
Well stated and laid out. I will continue to donate and hope we will be heard at some point. I suspect that the deck was stacked against motorized users from the start, but we have to stay informed and keep fighting!
Thank you!
Good information and about proceess. Not sure about opinions and assumptions you are promoting. Question: how many ohv trails with areas as big as the one in Mobab that has been closed gone into wilderness designation or proposed?
Several proposals in Congress, right now or in the recent past, have new wilderness designations. The Gunnison Public Lands Initiative (GPLI) in Colorado has been circulating (as legislation or influence) for over 5 years now, and it received its own Alternative for consideration during the Grand Mesa Uncompagre and Gunnison (GMUG) Forest Plan update that just released a decision. They did not choose that alternative outright, but the GMUG Forest Plan Update Decision did create new zones for Wilderness consideration, some had old roads, and one currently has an existing road that was mismapped during the most recent (2008) travel plan. The Colorado Outdoor Recreation and Economy Act (CORE ACT) was introduced by Senators Bennett and Hickenlooper and Congressman Neguse and includes 71,000 new acres of Wilderness. Much of that acreage is from past failed Wilderness bills or areas deemed not exhibiting 'Wilderness Characteristics.' Old roads still do the west in almost every corner of public land and are contained within current Wilderness Areas. I would end with a question: if you are hesitant to acknowledge the steps to ultimately create the Red Rock Wilderness area discussed in the video, do you think the legislation becomes stronger if no active roads are being used after the BLM closes them? Suppose you look at the Arc Gis map at (25:24). In that case, the areas outside the roads have already been identified as 'Wilderness Study Areas', and the leverage for Wilderness creation becomes stronger once roads and outlets for mechanized use are eliminated from a study area.
@keeptrailsopen thank you for responding and answering my question. To answer your question,I am not sure. I would like to do more research on my own and not make assumptions about what I think. Keep up the fight for access. Thank you.
Thanks, Marcus. In opposition to this plan.
I've written my congressman and both senators. The Governor of Utah. President and Vice President.
Made my 4x4 club aware of this situation.
It's time to send BRC some dollars.
Thank you!
Pure curiosity. How do they expect to enforce the closures?
What do they do when airplanes fly overhead?
Believe it or not , some Parks have an aviation exclusion zone ,and or , a minimum altitude requirement ,much like the 2000 ft agl over populated areas
@@rblueroan2205 no such restriction exists over this area. There is a proposal for Arches & Canyonland to 2,900 but BLM land is unrestricted and until the ruling Arches & CL normal rules apply. There's many videos out there of the flying cowboys doing backcountry aviation landing off airport on plenty of UT BLM land.
I have watched their back country flying ,enjoyed it , and have listened to their cautions about where and where not to land , areas administered by NPS , UFWS , USFS , waters and wilderness areas are 2000 agl , basically the same minimum required over populated areas . What I see is as more of these groups gain power , the folks who do fly in and land at remote sights will become targeted just as the rest of the public land users are W@@GregHuston
I just got into the off-road scene. So I'll never be able to experience those trails ? : ( I have an 09 Tacoma with a 3 inch lift and off-road bumpers. : )
Thanks for watching this is a great time to continue learning about land use issues and how you can keep your new-found recreation alive.
Do you know what the attitude of City of Moab is towards these closings. I would think they don’t like it.
Watch the previous videos in this playlist. At the time this plan was running the city and county were not opposing closures.
We are experiencing this in New Mexico they are closing roads with out even letting people contest it I am disabled and I can’t get to many places I used to because they have made all the wilderness areas that are not wilderness
It's frustrating that it's happening everywhere, Moab is taking the spotlight because it's well-known, but as you said the road closures are happening in all western states at an alarming rate.
As a dirt biker, I'm highly concerned about this decision. We (dirt bikers and 4x4 guys) won't agree on everything (ie singletrack vs 4x4 route) but in the grand scheme of things, we are on the same team and will agree on access. We are 100% on the same page on the Gulches. Please don't forget impacts to dirt bikers in your efforts. As for the personal conflict issue you mentioned...yeah...dirt bike v MTB. I ride both as do LOTS of other dirt bikers, but alot of the pure MTBers have that social value conflict you mentioned. A MAJOR loss for dirt bikers in Laby/Gemini is Dead Cow/The Tubes. Most iconic ride ever. Hope we can get all the TMP closures reversed in a lawsuit.
Thank you! We do work closely with TPA on several issues, and you are right, we are all in this together.
i'm a member of blue ribbon and i don't think they are receiving the support they should. hopefully this video may help. if people don't fight for their right to their form of recreation they will lose it.
Glad to hear you support BRC. We work with them frequently to get issues in Utah out to the public.
I'm not intimate with conditions or politics around Moab. I realize there are arguments from the BLM far beyond road condition.
Still, as a motorcyclist wanting to enjoy public trails or forest roads... I can't stand SXS's... for every respectful driver, there is another that tears up trails to the point of unridability for motorcyclists or even trucks/jeeps. I'm not the delicate hiker, paddler, camper who bemoans anything motorized around me... I am the motorized. As one article put it, "New ORVs are faster, louder, and more capable of reaching into remote areas than ever before. Labyrinth Canyon is no exception: the area has seen a dramatic increase in motorized recreation over the past decade, with ORV noise and dust disproportionately impacting the majority of public land users.” (...per my point, this includes motorized users like myself.) This frustration with (some) SXS riders isn't picking on one group of riders, but there's too many people from one group of riders being selfish bums who just don't give a damn while riding vehicles with a capacity for great damage and/or risk to other users. This outcome was so predictable. As usual... some people ruin it for the rest.
Nothing short of bunch of Karen’s, with lawyers, these organizations exist to some degree to collect donations, it’s a business for some. That said they should issue permits in a lottery to those that want to use it especially designated areas of dispute. Day use areas or unlimited stay areas should have a general admission process. Bottom line they need to let everyone access at some discretion my opinion.
Government overreach. Why we must take this country back. We the people is long gone. Ever heard of 15 minute cities
Totally. This all leads back to Agenda 21.
From the perspective of a long time dirt biker, short time mountain biker, the side by sides are having a negative impact on the trails. They have ruined a bunch of nice single track trails in my area, and it seems at least 1/2 of them act irresponsibly. I know, I know, the bicyclists and hikers say the same about dirt bikes too.
I ride both as well and I rode sxs for a long time and grew up on sport quads. Even where I live there are a lot of douche bag sxs riders. But there's alot of cool respectful ones to . It's like a 40/60 ratio and the 60 need to check the 40%
STEP 1:Close the trails, STEP 2: Government declaration as required, STEP 3: Sell it to the 'chinese' because we need more for 'ukraine', STEP 4: Chinese build 10 layer high condos, STEP 5: new 'residents' demand more water rights.
I remember riding dirt bikes on some of the river side trails, and being told they can't wait till we're not allowed there anymore... lol... I thought, wtf?
It's a crazy situation.
Someone forgot about Honda Odyssey’s. 80’s
Nobody forgot, I rode Odysseys frequently as a kid, and my father worked at a summer camp running Odysseys for campers. I mentioned them in the initial shoot of the video, but that part didn't make the final cut due to the video length.
@@keeptrailsopen thanks for the reply bro. We may not get everything we want but we do get what we deserve I feel. You’re some good folks fighting the good fight and I believe these tree huggers have awoken the giant. I fled California last year and moved to Hurricane, Utah right next to Sand Hollow state park. I love it here and would hate to see the cancer these people push end up closing trails here. They are like you said never satisfied. I’m spreading the word to everyone I know down here as well.
I'm sick n tired of the blank stares I get from the people who I tell about this..
I believe in your cause and you make many good points and observations. You need however, to tighten up your narrative. An hour long stream of consciousness in an attempt to be comprehensive is not the best advocacy strategy. Break your content down into a series of 10-15 minute videos and publish on a continual basis. Repetition, redundancy and frequency is more effective than trying to cover every issue and opinion in a single video. Curb some of the extended editorializing and opinionating, which adds unnecessarily to length. Build width and depth in your coalitions to build influence and outreach. Through coalitions you can solicit and hire your own legal assistance, find common ground and reverse recent closure decisions. Keep up the good work. Your depth of knowledge is obviously very extensive.
Thanks for commenting to help the metrics and the reach.
We have the same crap going on in B C.Road closures with no good reason.
More side by sides are made for racing with big engines
I’m 9+ months late here but I’m thinking the answer is to just go. Travel the lands however you want, be damned what the man says. That being said, don’t damage it. Stick to trails, etc etc. The rangers can’t handle the masses.
It may very well come to that one day. We are still fighting in the IBLA appeal process over the final decision and then will likely file litigation in Federal Court.
The same people calling for reduced access don't want their access infringed. They just don't want us out there. The reservation system lotteries are all garbage. Instead of reducing public access, fund more public camping
This is a great point. There is an opportunity to increase supply (camping), and yet all The Agencies talk about is restrictions...
Similar thing in Wyoming.
The BLM will have private eco-friendly group's lease sections of public land .
They say it's for our own good.
But we won't be allowed access to this land.
I personally wouldn't give a rat's ass if all sXs's disappeared. Dirt bikes and 4x4's are my thing. And hiking and biking. And boating. Oh, and snowmobiling.I do not understand the appeal of sXs's.
I ride dirtbike & mtb but I also used to have a sxs. Around where I live there's alot of fun to be had climbing gnarly stuff but I much prefer a dirtbike. And there are alot of tools that own sxs's
@aaronphillips2728 Yes. There are a lot of tools that own sXs's. Fat lazy out of shape people can just jump in them and go like hell.
The little midwest town I live in years ago started allowing golf carts to drive in the city limits. Soon that turned into sXs's being allowed too. The problem is that at the time it was made legal, the sXs's were John Deere Gators, Polaris Rangers, etc. Now we have loud fast 200hp Mavericks and Razors tearing around town all hours of the day.
Exactly…their inconsistency points to it being arbitrary…or it’s actually a political decision pushed and influenced by groups that want to stop access altogether.
Closing trails to motorized vehicles is a violation of the ADA. Motorized vehicles is the only way someone like me with limited mobility can enjoy these areas. I cant hike in that far, and there are no wheelchairs capable of the journey. Unless they provide some alternate means for me to enjoy this area, it either needs to be entirely closed to everyone, or open to those with special needs. I believe a lawsuit based on discrimination against the disable would succeed.
We agree 100% with you in principle. Unfortunately, we are unaware at this time of the ADA entering into these types of arguments relative to dispersed, undeveloped recreation on public lands. A recent executive order signed by Biden may play out (unintentionally) in this arena, though, as it mandated equity in many areas and did touch on recreation.
@@keeptrailsopen All you need to do is find someone who can’t hike in who wants to see the trail and file a lawsuit. I would volunteer but I’m on the east coast and only hope to get out there one day.
@@fredfrederick5607 I mean to say that I am unaware of this type of litigation being filed and successfully used to undo trail closures. Through our litigation efforts in Colorado and working on the Utah stuff, we haven't found case law or a solid argument to build upon that avenue. If you have a history of legally reversing closures on public land based on ADA, please send that to us.
@@keeptrailsopen Unfortunately I do not. However every mom and pop store has 15 disabled parking spots and are forced to put in ramps to be accessible. I can’t imagine that Federal land wouldn’t fall under the same requirements.
I'm F'ing P!$$ed about this decision. When this proposal was open for public comments I submitted a lengthy comment/essay as I have responsibly recreated in this area for over a decade. I thought they were claiming "Sound" as the #1 concern but this area has little wildlife and no people living near it, the rationale was complete B.S. I love riding there but when it comes to traveling to places to spend my hard earned money in campgrounds, restaurants or hotels I'll think about going somewhere else like the Black Hills or Wyoming.
Jeeps are just as much the problem too.
Public land behavioral issues and not making good decisions is a human issue, it's not specific to any one user group. However, there are larger powers at work trying to limit public land access wherever they can.
Looks like the "Sheriff of Nottingham" is at it again no one allowed in the kings forest.😐
Pass this along.
SUWA meets with the BLM in their office's.
They do lunch, coffee, etc...
Most BLM employees are from colleges. Their colleges have taught them to have a lot of disdain for the off-road type.
So the BLM and SUWA are on the same side.
Public land should be public access for all. Obviously there have to be rules but if the federal government closes access then they should be forced to sell it.
We agree. Public land should allow access to all and should be managed so that access is preserved. Closure is not management. Thanks for watching.
This is all well and good. But, I want to know how much financial support was provided by the local moab club for fighting this management plan. I'll bet very little. And even less from outside clubs. Offroad based companies and corporations think they are supporting these efforts by paying for and participating in the big events like Safari. But, in reality these clubs just hoard the money and say they are waiting for a bigger fight. Its even more discouraging to the individual offroader who supports these clubs thinking they are helping out the cause. When in reality, the clubs don't have the proper leadership to know how to help financially. The fight is real but our players are just amatures.
This is a good question, and I can tell you that Red Rock 4-wheelers sent $25K to BRC for the impending litigation. This, along with Utah Public Lands Alliance matching another $25K in donations ($50K total) to be sent to BRC, many clubs, businesses, and other groups donate to UPLA. We have also sent money to BRC along with others. You are correct; much more needs to be done. But these closures have started a somewhat unified front that we hope continues to grow.
@keeptrailsopen Thats a good start. Unfortunately, it is still a small drop out of what I understand to be a pretty large bucket.... I hear and see more action from those outside of utah on this issue. We are very close to Moab and are almost weekly wheelers out there. Unfortunately, the city's demographics have changed since covid, and we don't see the offroad community presents like we use too. The town is crazy busy, but the trails (short of sand flats) is not. Honestly, except for safari and online there isn't much of an organized offroad presents there.
@@russelllarue1583 I would agree with you. Industry needs to step up at some point and put money behind these efforts.
I disagree with the decision to close these routes in principle. However, I understand why this decision was made. Since 2020 the exponential increase in both motorized and non-motorized activity on ALL public lands, and subsequent conflicts between groups, can and will lead to decisions like the one outlined in this video. The decision will favor the group in favor with the local and national political actors at the time, NOT the group that presents the most logical argument or squeaks the loudest. I doubt the BLM wanted to close these trails proactively as remarking 300 plus miles of trails and enforcing the new rules will require lots of money and manpower. The short version of the BLMs justification is the area is too popular and the only way to make it less popular and reduce anthropogenic impacts is to close a portion of it. Go somewhere else.......
The thing between all-out closure and public land anarchy is 'Management.' Closure isn't management; there are many ways to deal with increased users (and impacts) without a full closure. The BLM has an obligation under FLPMA to find this balance.
So why haven’t organizations like yours not combined forces and sued to get them open? I’d donate and support. Use the same tactics. Would gather most support from local communities. They rely on the ORV community to support their economies.
Public comments on proposed rules makes no real difference anymore. You have to take legal/civil action now days.
Or you have to gain enough political pressure from the local communities to push the fed reps and senators pressure them or take them to court to make them back off.
Watch our other videos on this channel, specifically the ones on Wildcat Canyon and The Gulches trail system in Colorado. We sued the Forest Service and are actively in that litigation currently. It's not just an easy task to sue them and open trails. You have to have standing to sue, and you have to have a winning argument to pursue the costly avenue of legal intervention. NEPA and the current management laws on the books for public lands highly favor environmentalists, and it takes a lot of work to present a legal argument in our favor. We will be part of the appeal process in Utah and the subsequent litigation over the decision. I know 3 separate groups that will sue over this decision, and I will do an updated video as that materializes through the appeal process.
Private vehicles will be banned in this dystopian future.
This problem has been gaining momentum over the years , the adds they run in places like NYC LA, , most major city’s are ment to get the people who will never set foot in these so called wilderness areas , let alone even leave their city’s to back them . They have been highly successful in limiting oil exploration , mining ,logging , grazing etc . One of the things they are so good at is getting groups to fight among themselves , as pointed out here side by sides weren’t even around when they began their crusade , the nearest thing were the old flat fender jeeps and early CJ’s , yet they become a target , surprisingly enough, horseman have also been targeted by these groups because someone stepped in a pile of fertilizer while out walking in there boat shoes . They also are good at getting wilderness designation on places that never really were , by the wilderness act these places should not have been impacted by man , yet I can take you to so called wilderness here in Colorado where many of us grazed cattle and logging was going on , the mill site is even inside the boundaries, wilderness , I think not . As pointed out here groups need to come together to fight these idiotic proposals , but like herding cats it can be hard to do , not impossible
Totally agree.
Heres an idea, abolish SUWA
As a Off Road dude who grew up in Colorado and California I gotta say - um duh they close everything eventually. You can fight and slow the process and that’s commendable but we’re gonna lose more and more every year. Hidden gems, habitat, wilderness, restoration, whatever it sounds good to the normies. Enjoy what’s available while it’s available
It shouldn’t be political but it is. Closing these trails is a democrat wet dream.
It’s a shame that these trails are going to be closed, but everyone has to admit that the problem is the people that go off the trails and don’t pick up their trash drive way too fast and are a danger to others on trails… we are out numbered by idiots who don’t stick to the trails and trash environment. And that same thing is happening here in Colorado and this why we are losing trails. So blame the idiots not the B.L.M . We have to respect the land to keep the trails open
The problem with this closure (and others) is not as simple as blaming it (clearly discussed in this video) on user behavior. There certainly is an education/ethics/stewardship component that is front and center for many people; however, the Moab issue comes down to groups working to eliminate public land access, and that falls squarely into a public land advocacy issue. The BLM leadership in Washington is directly involved with many land use decisions, and one only needs to look across the West (Wyoming Rock Springs Resource Management Plan Process) to see the influence. BLM is also taking comments right now in Colorado on the Big Game Habitat Conservation Plan. Recreation is cited as the number one issue within that plan even though herd numbers are not decreasing and wolf reintroduction which will happen this month in Colorado is not mentioned.
the people i know who either live there or spend a lot of time there say the trails were closed because people who have never been on the trails before r now out on side by sides and they r not staying on the trails and r even attempting to brake new ones . its not about speed its about misuse
And this would be an untrue statement with respect to the situation on the ground in LR&GB. Several advocates in the area dispute this notion with on-trail evidence, which does not support this claim, and the BLM did not list those issues in the justifications for the route closures. On the other hand, however, the BLM did list a lack of use as the reason for closing many routes.
Sue them for discrimination based on social value conflicts
Are you saying we have lost all those roads in Colorado???????
The video discusses the most recent trail closures in Utah near Moab. Other videos on our channel discuss some past Colorado trail closures and what is being done to fight them.
It’s true, SxS users make it extremely easy to hate them.
If you were the BLM, who would you rather be friends with.
A. Off-road vehicle clubs
Or
B. Eco-friendly groups.
I'm pretty sure most will say the eco-friendly groups.
They have a better marketing team.
ORV groups need to come together.
UTV's are a menace to the off road community. Everywhere.
True. But it's also true that there is a more extensive agenda to lock the public out of public land for political reasons and a globalist agenda.
You have to look at how the majority of SxS owners treat the land they ride. My local Dunes....Juniper Forest has gotten destroyed by SxS.. They think they fit down single track trails.. They blast through the sage to make their own trails that cross over single track trails... Gotta remember those leg shaving peddle pushers ride our single track trails and they are the one's complaining about the ground getting ripped up.
Government overreach.
The part you're missing about the 40 year fight is they couldn't accomplish their goals for 40 years, until now. Yes there weren't sxs back then but they couldn't accomplish their goals back then. They have been trying to do something for 40 years and now the sxs have them an excuse. You're arguing against your point
The SxS is a distraction for big government pushing an agenda through their 'objective' process and hoping the public is distracted by things they don't like on a personal level. The environmental lobby didn't have a placeholder for president so they could enact their total agenda until now. The head of BLM under Obama said that Tracy Manning had no business being considered to run the BLM, yet here we are...
So why not go run those trails and say "fuck you catch me if you can" to the schmucks tasked with keeping us out? There's only so many rangers out there to begin with...
We still have an appeal (and potentially litigation) with the IBLA, so we arn't quite at the civil disobedience recomendation. But who knows what the future holds...
Investors bought up a lot of land. They want values to increase. They want to rid UTV's and increase transportation, hotels, infastructure, etc. That will look after their investments. Many of these investors live in Denver. Also, they can explore oil and gas resources. As always, it comes down to money. They want it.
This isn't about investors; this is about government overreach in an effort to remove the public from public land to pursue the 30x30 agenda.
A lot of energy there to fight the big fight, I am going to suggest something more bold, total disobedience. Complying only makes them stronger, fighting them in courts and all this energy for the same poor results. I have seen it time and time again and there is no real win. Yes OHV is divided as well because some of them love federal funding as well for their pet projects so they work to impose their views on all others. Let me simply express this. Earth is my home and home to all of you and if you dont like what I am doing pick up your stuff and leave earth. All these rules has killed most journeys and the only real journeys are the ones where no harm is done. Taking away and limiting are harmful to the human journey upon our home earth, so I shall stand bravely for the journey and nothing less.
side by sides are absolute cancer
Sheesh Matt’s off road recovery complains about SxS use. I find it interesting your in a SxS or a jeep and there is this hate of difference as anyone made either machine. You can’t get a simple wave.
People are territorial and tribal to the core. And our savor gave us dominion over the earth. This sucks never wheeled ther briefly rode my mtb passing through to Wyoming. It’s not the people we’re at war with it’s the governments.
Sad times were in im sorry us off-roaders are loosing this. And I find the ignorance in comments people no exactly who place trash where spotted and the genre of vehicle they did it in. Let’s forget that nature wind floods spills and so forth contribute to this.
It's sad; we could be so much stronger as a user group if we worked with each other.