it’s all about doing it respectfully tbh.. it’s fine to dislike ur songs whatever, but calling ur fans dumb or stupid for liking your art is so mean bro
@user-tz4rl9xv2tWho is crying? OP is just saying Doja didn’t need to act like her fans are dumb/tasteless for liking songs she hates. I think you are the one with hurt feelings here babes
@user-tz4rl9xv2twhat she said was wrong. not that people are hurt, she DID WRONG. your actions aren't defined by consequence. if you think that, you're very stupid.
@user-tz4rl9xv2t are you that special? Are in a class? Are you sure you’re supposed to have access to the internet? It appears you lack fundamental reading and comprehension skills.
i agree that it’s absolutely valid and okay to grow to hate your art, however, don’t insult fans of the art to make them feel inferior and bad for liking your art
@user-tz4rl9xv2tinsults don't have to cause hurt to be wrong! it's still wrong. fans are the reason they even got the song so popular? it's so stupid to ridicule them.
I think the funniest part of Doja calling her old music "mediocre pop" and cash grabs is that she almost immediately released her most mediocre and cash grab sounding song directly after
@@Jeremy-hx7zjwell that’s just not true. Her old stuff is evidence but she’s making this statement and that’s making her seem more mediocre than she is
I’m still wondering why popcrave misquoted pinkpanthress so badly though knowing how quickly ppl jump to conclusions especially if it’s a woman artist seeming ungrateful. Like look how much ppl hate Rachel Ziegler talking badly about her roles vs Robert Pattinson and Jacob Elordi. They set her up and idk why
i always thought the hate for rachel zegler was ridiculously overblown but i never realised that robert pattinson was like… the exact same because of how the media portrayed them both so differently, you have opened my mind bro
The point isnt that they can't dislike their old music. Its about being extremely rude to the people who like it, the people who helped raised them to stardom through that music.
@@nari5161 Actually, its normal. You're not supposed to insult people based on their music tastes. That's rude for anyone to do, not just a celebrity. But it feels even worse when someone you look up to and enjoy their music says that about you.
@@bonemallow8374then don’t look up to soulless pop musicians idk??? if someone u never met can ruin ur life by not liking ur music taste then u should practice more self love. my music taste is edgy screamy trash made largely by bigoted white men…I like the music so I don’t care that they would likely hate me. It’s not that deep just enjoy the art and stop worshipping celebrities
@@narcissistsanonymous3904 Who said it's ruining their life? Literally the whole point is that it's just annoying and rude. At most it's just ruining people's day and ruins their enjoyment from listening to their favorite artist. Why is it so hard for you to just say "Yeah maybe even celebrities shouldn't be rude." Lol 360 wet messy ultra dick riding of celebrities
@@narcissistsanonymous3904 their whole point was that its rude and impolite to insult peoples music taste and especially that of your, fans and then you immediately open by claiming they listen to "soulless pop musicians" lmao, I get that YOU don't care and that to YOU it's not that deep, but believe it or not some people dislike it when their taste is insulted especially by the person who created what they enjoy in the first place
My favourite artist is Aurora (obviously lol) and objectively her most famous song is Runaway which she wrote when she was 7 years old. Which is crazy to think about since almost 20 years later she still performs it live, many times a year. But the takeaway is that she expresses constantly how grateful for the sucess and love of this song has, even though she has many other songs she is much more proud of and would love to be more heard. I think it just shows how easy it is to find the positives to inspire and uplift a fandom instead of making them feel dumb and insecure about liking the most popular songs. It's an insteresting conversation for sure, and perhaps it has something to do with the fact that it was never Aurora's intention to become an artist- it sort of blossomed as a random opportunity for her, rather than artists like Doja Cat and Pink Pantheress who were consciously trying to become known and their music got bigger faster than they ever expected. Maybe the bitterness comes from an expectation of having more time to improve and create things they are more proud of rather than being "stuck" with the earlier stuff that literally got them to the place they are now.
I honestly love Aurora and it’s so nice how grateful and how much love she has for runaway even tho it’s not her best song but she knows a lot of people love it and she doesn’t mind that
I love this 😭 she is seriously one of the kindest and most grateful and loving artists I've ever listened to. Her music reflects her personality so much ❤
Yess! i love aurora as well and i think she handles fame and fans really well. It's clear she has a raw passion for what she does, and it's amazing to see her gain appreciation for her work!!
ok i know this is the wrong part of this comment to get hung up on but seven? at seven she wrote it?? everything or just the rythmn and part of the lyrics? maybe i’m an underestimater of 7 year old brain power but the lyric “i’ve been putting sorrow on the furthest place on my shelf” doesn’t remind me of when people sniffled glue 😭
@@DilfLover-py2fxatp is it a troll? Being associated with neo nazis for years and recently wearing a shirt of Sam Hyde (a known neo nazi) lmao she's probably just like that
@@DilfLover-py2fx exactly. I’ve been done with her ever since the tiny chat shit came out. She’s clearly racist against her own race, which is a special kind of fucked up.
i’ve been making art for over 10 years now and there’s art that my friends absolutely love, but i dislike it so much….like you said, just a natural progress of an artist!!
My first encounter with this concept was when I was watching the Radiohead documentary "Meeting People is Easy", and there is a performance of "Creep" where Thom Yorke is just holding his microphone towards the audience, standing still, and just staring blankly into space as they sing the entire song.
We also gotta think about the fact that these artists sing these songs constantly. I know I have ruined songs for myself because I've listened to them too many times in a certain timespan. Feels totally understandable to me that someone who has to perform a song over and over again would be over it.
yeah, it's like putting a song you like as your alarm or ringtone. some of my favorite songs of all time have now become dull and repetitive to me because I've set them as my alarm.
Lou Reed famously recorded an awful album that he trolled fans and press with for years before finally admitting that it was just something to piss off the crowd that would scream at him in concerts to play Walk on the wild side.
@@zoinks7014 yeah its metal machine music, a lot of people speculated that he made it for the reason op said. unfortunately its not exactly clear why he actually made it bc he has a lot of contradictory statements about its origins
declan mckenna has a great perspective on this i think. Brazil, his first song ever released(that he wrote at like 16 or 17) has blown up multiple times over the past 5 years on different platforms and even tho his music has evolved and changed a bunch he still happily performs it and expresses how grateful he is for the song and it’s reception. he pokes fun at it and makes a lot of jokes on social media about the song but still understands that people love it and that it marks an important moment in his career and life. (i love his music more than life). it doesn’t matter if he loves or hates the song, it doesn’t impact how he talks about it or treats his fans even if they ONLY like Brazil.
Yes!! i also think Clairo also has a good perspective . She wrote "pretty girl" as a teenager and it became one of here first big hits, and i don't think she is into her bedroom pop songs much but still appreciates her fans and still sings it at her shows!! She has shifted from a very DIY bedroom pop genre to more of a soft alternative indie style and she has changed a lot on her view with her mindset with music. I absolutely love Sling, Immunity, and all her other singles with the bottom of my heart :DD. I've also watched some of her interviews with others and she really shares how she is so grateful about her fans and her songs that got her to this point. I also love declan mckenna's music!!!
pink pantheress is so real for staying true to her releases, not saying that others are wrong for hating their songs some just arent taking it that maturely 💀
I don't think enough time has passed for her to truly hate and cringe at her older songs. I'm sure in 5 to 10 years she'll be like "although I'm thankful these songs changed my life, I've moved on from them/I don't like them anymore". All artists Dev mentioned have said something along those lines. The only one taking it immaturely is Doja. She isn't particularly tactful in general...
ariana’s hatred for bang bang goes way back it was so funny to follow it like it was drama between two celebs. she doesn’t even wanna sing it anymore and i think it also brought up embarrassment bc of the victoria’s secret and getting hit in the face. she joked abt it saying bang bang into my face 😭😭
doja's the only person who i think expressed these thoughts in a mean or "bitter" way. despite this, we've all seen how she's had to perform "say so" like a million times throughout the past 3 years so her disdain for that song is v understandable :/
I get her hate for the song, as she got heavy criticism for her pop music, and was marked as js another pop star, and someone who js made mediocre pop, and was forced into a box, from Hot Pink, and Planet Her, and she finally snapped and decided to pushback against those claims. I truly think it’s a mixture of the label issues and not being happy with the music she was making, and the fanbase that music garnered so she gained distain as she wanted to experiment and didn’t want to be a pop girlie, and she blew up insanely fast. I don’t think the mocking of her fanbase was necessary, but she clearly doesn’t like those songs, and is trying to not be a main pop girlie anymore. TLDR: She’s justified but only to an extent, I don’t think the mocking of her fanbase was necessarily, and she didn’t want to be a pop girlie.
as an aspiring musician, I try really hard not to hate my older music, but I find myself deleting old stuff all the time and being thankful it didn't blow up. I do have a bunch of songs that I still love, but I find it so valid for these huge artists to hate their biggest songs
I can completely relate to this. As an artist, I look back on my art from 5, 10, 15 years ago and I’m shocked that I allowed certain pieces to see the light of day. I think artists are hyper critical of their work and will always see the mistakes over the successes. It unavoidable. But I agree with the statement that it just means we’re growing and changing. ❤
i know in an interview lizzy mcalpine said she hates "pancakes for dinner" but she doesn't berate her listeners for liking it. she understands that it may be people's favorites, and she's okay with that. she doesn't like it herself, but she doesn't criticize her listeners for it being their fav because she understands some songs hold more meaning than others.
Reading this comment made me feel like you just made up an artist and threw some words together and didn't expect anyone to question it (I'm sure she's real but I feel like I dropped into an alternate reality)
my old friend did an amazingggg sketch in one of my sketchbooks back in like middle school and i told her recently that i still have it and showed it to her and she HATED it. i still love it tho. it’s genuinely really good. but the fact she hates it just means her art now is immensely better. haven’t seen any of her new stuff tho unfortunately.
My favorite artist is Hozier. He is famous, but sometimes I had to say, "you know him. He's the Take Me to Church guy." He still perform that song with such passion although it was released 10 years ago. I went to his concert last week and when he sang that song I could feel the chill in my spine. It was such an emotional performance. While some artists would dislike their biggest hit since they are defined by and confined within a single song, artists who love every single thing they put out or only put out what is meaningful to them, will continue to love their works. Even if one day they grow to dislike it they'll still respect and understand why it performed so we'll.
I love doja’s pop music and for a long time I’ve looked forward to the opportunity to see it performed live, but now I don’t even want to see her live if I’m gonna be made fun of for enjoying the “mediocre pop” that she’s playing
yeah, i completely agree with you both. but unfortunately this drama overshadows the larger issue which is that doja is dating a known abuser and has discredited victims. we shouldn't support her, not just because of how petty and immature she is to the people who gave her success, but also just because... she's a disgusting person and/or needs a tremendous amount of therapy. imo she's actually not all there mentally, like kanye, but that doesn't excuse her disgusting choices.
One artist who I think handles their biggest songs incredibly well is jack white with seven nation army. I’ve seen him live twice and he played it both times, and it sounded nothing alike. He changed it up so much it still sounds new especially for such a simple song and I loved it both times!
Usually the most popular song in an Artist's catolauge is the most popular for a reason. I mean there has to be at least some level of "universal good-ness" in the composition for a song to connect with that many people. (Even if it is just surface level like it "just has a catchy chorus" or something.) However, there is something to be said about music that aims to appeal to the widest ammount of people by sacrificing their creativity, which can be incredibly hard to draw the line on.
This reminds me a lot of the song Silver Warehouse by Silver Warehouse. It has been their most popular song consistently since they released it, but I know the band really doesn’t like playing it anymore. The song was titled incorrectly upon release (it was supposed to be called “Peace Signs”. Not self titled), and was written when they were still trying to figure out their musical style. It’s still a great song, but I can see why they might not like it as much.
I think part of it is having things demanded of you when performing, like did you all see that video of Billy Joel making fun on We Didn't Start the Fire because the fans at a recent concert were asking him to play it? You get to a point where you've performed it 1000+ times and i think it doesn't matter how good it is anymore you're gonna hate it.
This seems to be the main reason why Radiohead hates Creep (aside from it sounding pretty shit compared to their other music). Johnny Greenwood said during the band’s early tours, audience members would scream for them to play Creep, and then leave immediately after it was performed.
The Jonas Brothers wrote their first 4 albums when they were teenagers and it’s so seriously cool and like inspiring almost to here how much there sound has changed even just between their album from 4 years ago and the one they released in may but still all their old songs suit them and they play them all and like even one from their 2nd album is their favourite to preform and idek what I was trying to say in this comment but yeah, I just love how much they appreciate that those albums got them where they are today and those albums mean a lot to their fans, especially the ones who grew up with them and so they would never insult them or insult their fans for liking them
im an illustrator and have been in fandom spaces for over a decade, and it really reminds me of when people will draw for a specific show for a long time but naturally fall off of it and move on. and people will come to them for YEARS asking if they'll ever draw for that fandom again. and most of the time, people are apologetic about it and praise the fandom/media for what it was, but sometimes it gets to be a lot if you're hearing it all the time. it's like, i have new stuff i like. if you like my art, you should like it for what i draw about now... HOWEVER. berating fans or calling them stupid for liking your old stuff seems childish to me. like i get the annoyance but damn chill. you gotta remember the streisand effect--the more you try to avoid something, the more attention it'll get
I'm always going to think of Radiohead refusing to play Creep for a while. I can definitely imagine getting tired of playing the same song over and over, but it's so weird to see so many people this outspoken about it
Here's a unique example: Deftones have always hated the NuMetal lable that was placed on them between the release of their 2nd (Around the Fur) and 3rd (White Pony) albums. The record label wanted them to release a single that would be on White Pony that sounded more NuMetal. The band hated this idea but eventually gave in and took the bridge/melody from the last song on the album (pink maggit) and added a few rap lyrics on a faster paced, simpler version of it and Back to school(mini maggit) was born. It was wildly successful even though the band hates it and described creating it the way they did out of spite. I personally think its a great song that really ties the album together, the story behind it/irony of it being one of their big ones makes it even better.
The trend of artists hating their biggest songs stems from the fact that hit songs are normally the songs the artist was against releasing in the first place Record labels advise artists on what music direction to take and that leaves the artist feeling lost in the machine of music The label recommends a certain sound and it becomes huge but now you hate it because that's not your vision as an artist It's what you had to do to make money
With Yonkers id completely understand those lyrics were really weird, but i think what makes people still fall in love with it is the beat, the beat just has a great feel for it and sounds great.
imo people think artists look ungrateful when they hate on the things that gave them success, when it probably just has a different meaning to them because the success came with other experiences attached to that art
I really like it when you take a portion of the video to give advice about creating art and the feelings that come along with different journeys. Thank you for the upload!!
Anytime someone mentions Rebecca Black I’m always going to bring up her album Let Her Burn that came out in Jan of this year and its so good. I also love that she did a banger remix of Friday with Dillon Brady, Big Frieda, Dorian Electra, and 3OH!3 of all people.
As an artist this is very common in literally every form of art the thing you just shit out gets the most praise as oppose to the thing you put ur all into
Not an artist so idk but from what I’ve learned from Dev you hear your song over and over as its being made and after that so i can see how artists would be extra critical of their own songs especially the more popular catchy ones with not a lot of lyricism. Like I can see why they would hate that.
I think it is important to recognize that artists have a very different relationship to their music than fans do. I am super critical about the songs I make and it is hard to not deviate from the prospective of "how can I make this better" even years after it is done. It is disheartening to hear your favorite artist hates your favorite song by them, but I remind myself that, to them, it is just another project they worked on.
i think there's some validity to it, songs that are a bit more simple seem to be more likely to go viral just because they appeal to a wider audience - now simple doesn't necessarily mean bad, but if it's simple, it probably wasn't one of the more difficult ones to make making it feel "worse" in comparison to the songs you worked harder on - especially if those dont see the same acclaim. like the beat for boy's a liar is mind-boggingly simple, like a 12 year old could have made it, the keys or whatever has like no effects on it, it's barebones as fuck...but it's still lowk a hard beat
The first time I felt betrayed by this kind of thing was when MGMT came out and said they hated "Kids" and "Time to Pretend". But it's gotten easier since then because I've learned I hate myself and now I understand what they go through
Such and insightful video! People are surprised when I tell them I love all the songs I've ever produced and personally released. Some songs took over a year to perfect like "Beauty In Freedom" or "Towards New Beginnings" but I will say there are songs of mine where I would mix them differently now. For instance, "Sparkle" where I objectively messed up the mix by panning the matching cello and electric guitar solos too hard left and hard right that I wouldn't do that now that I have more experience. It irks me to this day that didn't mix that better, and so I totally understand these artists sentiments. Music is so personal and an expression of your deepest passions that when it is given to the public and doesn't succeed or certain songs succeed way more than you expected, you question everything you ever did. Or you play your songs for the first time in a live context and the bass doesn't hit right, or you don't agree with your lyrics from older songs as you mature, I get it. Such a great video and I relate. Talk your $H!T, Dev Limes! Love it!
While it may not be entirely equal for example with Doja Cat but I still think that people get more annoyed at female artists who don't like their old stuff than they do at male ones.
I mean of course that is going to happen. Way more Female artists say they don’t like certain songs than males do. Like alone the rap Genre alone some of the only males who said something like that was Tyler for Yonkers and Juice Wrld for Lucid Dreams
I'm an "artist" and I hate one of my songs. I was so afraid to have it tied to me that I created a whole alter ego for it. Amethysia Zeta. I might eventually get the confidence to promote it on my personal accounts but idk. I'm on Spotify only and I really think my music is for specific people. It's all instrumental, I'm completely okay if other artists want to sample parts of them (with some form of credit obviously. I'm not really in it for the money. I just know my music tickles my ears and I like that. And I hope others who like audio dances will like it too.)
I have felt those awkward moments of improvement in my art where I look back and hate the creations that people love the most, gotten fed up with artwork of mine that puts my more personal work (or works of significant importance or accomplishment) in what seems like a permanent shadow of the STILL (for some reason!) popular piece that I have almost learned to hate; as if the popular piece is spiting my efforts at creative expression and improvement. So I totally get a musician getting sick of being chanted at to play the hits, concert after concert. For fans to cheer you on for work you did a decade or more ago and ignore your new work, work which you may feel is the best you've ever done. That has to be so tiring, sad, and painful, especially on a grand scale with thousands of supporters screaming for your older work. The artists today saying "ha, you're dumb for liking this trash" seems harsh on the surface because it is. And despite the lack of filter, it's not negativity to be negative; the artist is feeling hurt. When an artist I like trashes a piece that I still enjoy to this day, I don't take it personally; they are well within their rights to be sick of their older work... I know I am! I can appreciate the work of another and not knowing the technical aspects behind it and flaws that might be there. I might not like a popular art piece of mine that I did years ago because Oof bad anatomy or bad technique but that doesn't phase some people... just how I may enjoy the hits of my favorite musical artists despite the artist seeing them as the musical equivalent of junk food or table scraps. I also I wonder how much of their lashing out at the fans liking the hits is actually a commentary about the Music $Industry$ and their control/influence on the artist and the work they produce. Toward the end of your video and even in the Doja Cat lashing out video, I was thinking of the sentiments behind the Korn song "Y'all want a single". An artist typically wants to find opportunity to express themselves, experiment, and find satisfaction in the creative process other ways than just making some ear-worm pop chart topping hit. The Industry wants to make a hit. They want the single. They want the financial gains that comes with a rabid fan base and assume that changing the formula will ruin their profits. If the fans eat it up, it's success for those financially invested in the artist. Of course, I'm not super familiar with the industry and it does seem that the industry has loosened their grasp but the fans like what they like and sometimes they want a simple, catchy single! Now in the ever expanding soul-suck that is social media and hearing peoples' opinions 24/7, an artist also might not have the filter in place or know how to communicate their complicated emotions when feeling cynical about their relationship with the industry, their work, and their fans. I could see how they might say, "Wow, you idiots fell for it. You made the investors $." at the same time they're feeling, "You don't like my real expression nearly as much as the content I was told to force feed you all... and it hurts that you just want me to stay a dumbed down commodity." Do they have the right to feel these complex emotions? Of course! Should they have said it the way they said it? Definitely not. Since their sentiments were so poorly phrased, the closest fans (ones who were dedicated to everything the artist does, even the experimental and personal and less fun) will take it the most personally. Yelling at the masses but scaring away your closest supporters... that's awfully sad to think about. (Also hi! Been digging your posts for months despite this being a first comment - much LORF!
HI DEV !!! Any new music on the way. Like I know you are doing queef jerky…? Also it doesn’t matter if Tyler hates Yonkers I’m still going to punch dry wall to it.
I think this is a prime reason why Taylor Swift has such loyal fans. She’s put her heart into everything she’s created and she genuinely loves how much her fans love her music. And look how much more it’s paying off for her. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone even remembers who people like Tyler or Doja were in 20 years. We all know damn well Taylor cemented herself in history.
yes!! her philosophy about her old music is so admirable, im sure she doesnt like some of it but she sees it as a photo album capturing a moment in time, not something to judge, and understands that once it’s out in the world it’s for the listeners not just her. i’d die of embarrassment having to show ALL my oldest art to tens of thousands every night but she embraces the fact that it’s all part of her and without those songs she wouldnt have cultivated the current relationship she has with her fans
No we never know who will be cemented in history. Obviously poeple like whitney Huston and axl rose will be cemented in history for there high vocal ranges and Whitney's actual perfection over her musical ability but for everyone else who isn't a seriously good singer it's basically just a xoin toss. People have no idea how many really early singers have been forgotten about completely as years went bye.
SZA too, she hates that “kill my ex” bs and was sad that the laziest song went viral. I was shocked too as a long time SZA listener that it was THAT going viral. I hated that song it doesn’t show her skill and it’s overall mediocre. I also dislike “yandere” themes. I believe that its completely valid to hate ur own art, and be frustrated with the industry hyped up ur laziest work. it depends how u speak abt it. Let others who don’t enjoy it, i may have came off as rude or “gatekeeping”, but if anything, gatekeeping is the opposite of my intentions. I want more ppl to listen to more music of her as kill bill is the least of what she has to offer.
I feel the exactly same way. you can like whatever you want, but the problem is people pigeonhole that artist and don't care to look beyond their one most popular song, when as you say that doesn't showcase what they can do best a lot of the time. like people aren't going 'I like kill bill, I'll check out her other songs', they're going 'oh sza, that's that "I just killed my ex" girl'. I feel like people underestimate how frustrating it is to be put in a box, and then insulted for not liking something you made that may not resonate anymore, but that you are being incessantly reminded of.
hating a song you released is similar to looking back at the fashion you used to wear either you look back on that and go its ugly, like I cant believe someone let me wore that is similar to people disliking their own music maybe because they think they've released better music since then or its overplayed so they're sick of it
Coincidentally, Dance Monkey was playing at the store today and my mom looked at me in horror and was like, "what the heck is this music? People like this?!"
The way she sings is just...bad. I don't know how anyone can like it, either. The song itself is fine! I can't get behind her vocals. I feel like I'm listening to one of those indie artists who got transplanted
I somehow remember seeing somewhere that The Weeknd said something about how it hurts too much to sing a lot of what’s on trilogy and he doesn’t want to be taken back to that dark place
when i was in a band, i had several older songs i hated playing but my band mates still enjoyed playing them and people still enjoyed the songs but i just associated it with hating the lyrics and how i performed it or whatever
i think from my perspective being only a kid and a songwriter songs that i write i’ll cringe at A LOT looking back on just weeks or months after writing. i take it as a good thing though because like you said it’s growth. the very first song i recorded my family was the only ones to hear it and it’s quite literally my least favorite song. and that’s ok. ❤️❤️ loved the video dev😁
i dont care if any artist doesnt like their own work, im not concerned with that? i get sometimes its not handled well but literally who cares? its their opinion and theres plenty of stuff ive made that i hate now, i literally see no issue
The funniest\saddest thing about the outcome of Dance Monkey is that i feel like that's the whole theme of the song. Like hey keep doing that one thing we like over and over forever!
Some other artists that hate their popular songs: * Britney Spears - Sometimes: Has said she "never liked that song anyway" * Mandy Moore - Candy: Has said that, if she had the means, she would offer anyone who bought her first two albums a refund. Candy she particularly disliked, mocking it in performances, by saying "how can you miss someone like candy?" * P!nk - Don't Let Me Get Me: Has said she would burn that song if she could * Ariana Grande - Why Try/Put Your Hearts Up: As a response to fans requesting Why Try, she said that she didn't understand the fans' obsession with that song. She has publicly slammed Put Your Hearts Up. People assumed she also slammed her song Touch It, but I think she said "that shit's boring" instead of "Touch It's boring". Also, she has mocked Problem and Break Free for being too radio-focused and for her sounding a bit chipmunky. * Lady Gaga - Telephone: Has said she hates Telephone, because of the recording process and how grueling it was * Kelly Clarkson - A Moment Like This/Breakaway: Has stated multiple times that she likes neither song. Funny thing is that Avril Lavigne, who wrote Breakaway, also didn't like the song * Evanescence - My Immortal: Amy Lee has also often said she didn't like this song * Vanessa Carlton - A Thousand Miles * Eminem - Cleaning' Out My Closet: Has said he regretted going in on his mother so hard as he does in this song * TLC - Creep: Left Eye has said she didn't agree with the message of the song * Mariah Carey - Hero/Someday: Mariah doesn't like Someday at all and has been very vocal about this. She has also said she didn't really vibe with Hero, but that nowadays, she does like to perform it, because of the effect it has on so many fans. * Selena Gomez - Come & Get It: Has said she felt like this feels like a Rihanna reject and it's difficult to perform live.
Artists that got huge off an early track, I can understand them getting tired of it or growing past it. With modern pop artists, a lot of them aren't writing the songs so I also understand how they could hate them.
This isnt a new thing btw, most artists do not write their own songs, even going back to the 50s and probably beyond. The singer-songwriter is more common now, but still not necessarily the norm
I think the most amazing bit of info I learned from this video is that Rebecca Black has a music career as an adult. I am so glad you told me that, I have to check that ish out right now.
Actually pinkpantheress said they misinterpreted her interview, she meant she didn't like the song before but after the remix it grew on her and ended up liking it.
There's a point where every single person will have their first experience with art that actually makes them appreciate it. It can be a small thing, or it can be BIG in order to reach them in the first place, it can be something that would otherwise seem oversaturated and overdone but it just _clicks_ with the viewer better than anything else. It's just so stupid to turn around and demean people for connecting with art, no matter its age or origin. Art isn't just about the process of making or having it exist, 1/3 of art is about that art being percieved. The true value of a piece is found in combination with the hearts and minds of its fans and viewers. And that can suck for an artist! But it's still a MAJOR factor, so it's rude and egotistical to dismiss it outright.
A great example of this is Lady Gaga besides "Telephone"... When she released the album "Artpop", she wanted the song "Aura" (originally titled as Burqa, she changed the song due to it's possible implications with Islam) as the intro of the album, but her executives said no and instead wanted "Applause" as the song is more catchy than "Aura".. She then leaked "Burqa" online later on.... The album itself is beloved by her fans but was considered as flopped, and Lady Gaga hasn't mentioned that album ever since like it doesn't exist at all🤣🤣🤣
i remember this happening with nirvana and smells like teen spirit. they would either refuse to play it at gigs or take the piss out of it which is honestly fair with the amount of times they performed that damn song. and as a big Nirvana fan i can say that they have some AMAZING songs that are just as good or far better than teen spirit (i recommend Very Ape 2013 Remix and Been A Son)
I feel like these artists never originally disliked those songs but grew to dislike them because of their popularity, especially when they think they've done better work. There's nothing wrong with thinking that your hit song isn't your greatest or that you no longer like it, but saying that it's "trash" or something similar is disrespectful not only to the fans but yourself as an artist.
Idk why dev didn’t mention it, but Tyler didn’t just roast the kid, he did play it as you can briefly hear, and idk if he truly does feel that way bc he tends to troll like all that clip was him on stage trying to make the crowd laugh
I think its totally normal for an artists opinions to change on their own work, and its totally valid to express that publicly. The thing that always REALLY annoys me though is when an artist claims that their hit song was a "joke" or "satire" all along, which i think is always BS. Some of my favorite artists have pulled this, like MGMT, De La Soul, Aphex Twin, and a few others. Its always so obvious that theyre only claiming their big songs are "satire" because they got so big and overplayed, and they want to express their frustration but in a way that still makes them seem super smart and artistic. Its understandable, but also really cringe. Like what's so hard about just admitting you made a song that you no longer feel proud of? For example, its really hard for me to believe that "electric feel" was intended to "make fun of pop music" like MGMT claim.
I did a weird mash up remix of some Deaf grapes stems with my guitar and sound harvests a few years back. I stopped busking with it after a year of doing so. Then, a few months ago, I shared it with an electronic music club i joined-- they liked it but it was embarrassing hearing the worst master of all time on a song that was 3/4's pre-mastered from the stems. I don't like the song, but the guitar and stems are still close to my heart. shout out to sound engineers for being the real MVPs!
every artist no matter your crafts is going to hate their old original works especially toward the early 20’s and late 40’s. But it feels like the older you get the more you enjoy your older works too you didn’t care and just did what you wanted too no restrictions from expectations. I don’t care if an artists says they don’t like some of their songs. its pretty normal for artists to have imposter syndrome. I think It’s the way that some artists express it is what people don’t like. . literally my niece has been going through my sketch books and says “oh these are so good! When did you draw these!” And I’m looking at it like??? That’s a good drawing? Where but like I was also a child when I drew those ya know I have more skills now and can see what I can do differently when I look at my old art works now instead of just looking and admiring the skills I DID have when I made it
its also very much that often the most successful songs are the one with the widest appeal, so often more generic/less personal from the artist's point of view. in my very extremely small scale experience, one of my most played songs ever that keeps getting attention is a thing i did for fun in like 2 hours and uploaded without a second thought, which is way more accessible to a general audience than the music I'm actually proud of. so it's a bit annoying when everyone seems to like a thing I think is cheap and required no effort to make but ignore the music I actually want to be known for
I think it's understandable for someone to dislike their most popular work. since it's the most popular people at the shows tell the artist "DO THIS SONG" or something along those lines so they're either tired of preforming it and or being told to perform it
I think it’s also a factor of being fearful of falling off telling everyone I’m better than what you know me by I make other songs that are better and that I still have time in this industry and have more to offer
Before even watching the vid, can say the songs of Dev's that have blown up (or the vids of YTers that have gotten the biggest response) are not my fav nor their best work. I've seen growing artists be surprised at what blows up and become endeared to that work like oh people really like this ergo it's one of my best, and of course they'll be glad for the recognition and traffic it drives, but also valid for artists to express their most popular work not being their fav. See MGMT and Kids etc. When ur that successful maybe you come to resent what tertiary (majority) fans know you for, and their lack of recognition of your other work. OKAY video now thank you for making and posting. Ignore me y'all, obviously.
As an artist I can relate to hating your most popular work lmfao. Everything I've ever made that I love has gone unnoticed and unloved and 5 second doodles I do will pop off
Let’s not forget Gotye and Somebody that I used to know. He has the most eclectic and colourful catalogue of sounds spanning 3 albums that nowhere NEAR enough people appreciate.
If you make music yourself you would know how much different artists see their music than the listener, the most random stuff goes viral while your best works goes unnoticed
I think the Tyler thing is a little different, because Yonkers is not representative of who he is now, and it has some lyrics in it that he'd never say today (ie not using the f slur) and a lot of the people who like it more than his other music tend to be the ones who say stuff like "yeah I like him even though he's gay" and are homophobic despite Tyler literally being queer
I do think one issue is that since most of these songs are pop (not all of them) most people listening to pop know its shallow and superficial so they can only indulge in it to a certain extent meaning that when u get a boys a liar or a Friday or even a creep most people just see it as a representation of the artist entire sound thinking there's not much more to offer then their "best work" and pretty much just spit them out like chewing gum being viewed more as a come n go novelty than a artist
One thing I think has to be granted to Taylor Swfit, regardless of your feelings towards her overall, is that she performs her biggest hits with the same love and adoraiton she has always had and does not falter for even a second. She even talked about it in an interview that she's incredibly aware of how it may be her thousandth time playing a song (at a bare minimum...) but it's oftentimes most people's first time hearing it live. Having a healthy level of respect and celebration for all of her musical eras - regardless of how she may or may not feel about them personally - is one of the biggest reasons she's at the height she is at. No matter what your favourite era is, you feel like Taylor loves it too, which helps everyone feel included and if they dislike a more recent release they don't feel isolated from Taylor because of it. Compare this to artists that shit on their fan favourites or big singles. No shade intended, this was ages ago, but I always vividly remember a clip of Ariana Grande being asked to sing 'Why Try', which to my knowledge isn't even a single just a fan fav track on one of her albums, and she groaned and kicked her feet and said it was so boring. I can't imagine how that must've felt for whoever requested it - it's a bad look, imo. There's levels to it too - there's Doja rolling her eyes doing the Say So dance, which is decently funny and in-character, and there's actually talking about your hatred or dislike for songs to your fans faces.
it’s all about doing it respectfully tbh.. it’s fine to dislike ur songs whatever, but calling ur fans dumb or stupid for liking your art is so mean bro
@user-tz4rl9xv2tI mean doja supports Nazi's so..
@user-tz4rl9xv2tWho is crying? OP is just saying Doja didn’t need to act like her fans are dumb/tasteless for liking songs she hates. I think you are the one with hurt feelings here babes
@user-tz4rl9xv2tpointing out that doja is an ass for insulting her fans ≠ the commenter taking it personally
@user-tz4rl9xv2twhat she said was wrong. not that people are hurt, she DID WRONG. your actions aren't defined by consequence. if you think that, you're very stupid.
@user-tz4rl9xv2t are you that special? Are in a class? Are you sure you’re supposed to have access to the internet? It appears you lack fundamental reading and comprehension skills.
i agree that it’s absolutely valid and okay to grow to hate your art, however, don’t insult fans of the art to make them feel inferior and bad for liking your art
@user-tz4rl9xv2t bro an artist insulting their fans is wrong obviously the artist doesn’t owe their fans but their fans deserve basic respect
@user-tz4rl9xv2tdo you like getting degraded
@user-tz4rl9xv2tinsults don't have to cause hurt to be wrong! it's still wrong. fans are the reason they even got the song so popular? it's so stupid to ridicule them.
Right like YOU made it, and i like it, so what??? Next time dont make it then. 😂
@user-tz4rl9xv2tyou’re under very reply bro doja cat is NOT gonna fuck you.
I think the funniest part of Doja calling her old music "mediocre pop" and cash grabs is that she almost immediately released her most mediocre and cash grab sounding song directly after
ikr? lol. maybe it's not "mediocre" doja, you just can't actually cook when you're not following the recipe
It's also admitting she's not capable of exceptional pop and mediocre is the best she can do
@KrissyKayyy and Agora Hills sounds exactly like something she would have released like 4 years ago, she doesn't make any sense anymore smh
@@StevieMcKenna10agora hills sounds like a coco and clair clair song
@@Jeremy-hx7zjwell that’s just not true. Her old stuff is evidence but she’s making this statement and that’s making her seem more mediocre than she is
I’m still wondering why popcrave misquoted pinkpanthress so badly though knowing how quickly ppl jump to conclusions especially if it’s a woman artist seeming ungrateful. Like look how much ppl hate Rachel Ziegler talking badly about her roles vs Robert Pattinson and Jacob Elordi. They set her up and idk why
For engagement
The entire “journalism” industry thrives on the collective rage of the internet to get more clicks
They do this all the time, only sharing the parts that would get more reactions and more engagement
i always thought the hate for rachel zegler was ridiculously overblown but i never realised that robert pattinson was like… the exact same because of how the media portrayed them both so differently, you have opened my mind bro
If a woman does it it's wrong
The point isnt that they can't dislike their old music. Its about being extremely rude to the people who like it, the people who helped raised them to stardom through that music.
Sounds like parasocial entitlement
@@nari5161 Actually, its normal. You're not supposed to insult people based on their music tastes. That's rude for anyone to do, not just a celebrity. But it feels even worse when someone you look up to and enjoy their music says that about you.
@@bonemallow8374then don’t look up to soulless pop musicians idk??? if someone u never met can ruin ur life by not liking ur music taste then u should practice more self love. my music taste is edgy screamy trash made largely by bigoted white men…I like the music so I don’t care that they would likely hate me. It’s not that deep just enjoy the art and stop worshipping celebrities
@@narcissistsanonymous3904 Who said it's ruining their life? Literally the whole point is that it's just annoying and rude. At most it's just ruining people's day and ruins their enjoyment from listening to their favorite artist. Why is it so hard for you to just say "Yeah maybe even celebrities shouldn't be rude." Lol 360 wet messy ultra dick riding of celebrities
@@narcissistsanonymous3904 their whole point was that its rude and impolite to insult peoples music taste and especially that of your, fans and then you immediately open by claiming they listen to "soulless pop musicians" lmao, I get that YOU don't care and that to YOU it's not that deep, but believe it or not some people dislike it when their taste is insulted especially by the person who created what they enjoy in the first place
My favourite artist is Aurora (obviously lol) and objectively her most famous song is Runaway which she wrote when she was 7 years old. Which is crazy to think about since almost 20 years later she still performs it live, many times a year. But the takeaway is that she expresses constantly how grateful for the sucess and love of this song has, even though she has many other songs she is much more proud of and would love to be more heard. I think it just shows how easy it is to find the positives to inspire and uplift a fandom instead of making them feel dumb and insecure about liking the most popular songs. It's an insteresting conversation for sure, and perhaps it has something to do with the fact that it was never Aurora's intention to become an artist- it sort of blossomed as a random opportunity for her, rather than artists like Doja Cat and Pink Pantheress who were consciously trying to become known and their music got bigger faster than they ever expected. Maybe the bitterness comes from an expectation of having more time to improve and create things they are more proud of rather than being "stuck" with the earlier stuff that literally got them to the place they are now.
I honestly love Aurora and it’s so nice how grateful and how much love she has for runaway even tho it’s not her best song but she knows a lot of people love it and she doesn’t mind that
I love this 😭 she is seriously one of the kindest and most grateful and loving artists I've ever listened to. Her music reflects her personality so much ❤
Yess! i love aurora as well and i think she handles fame and fans really well. It's clear she has a raw passion for what she does, and it's amazing to see her gain appreciation for her work!!
ok i know this is the wrong part of this comment to get hung up on but seven? at seven she wrote it??
everything or just the rythmn and part of the lyrics? maybe i’m an underestimater of 7 year old brain power but the lyric “i’ve been putting sorrow on the furthest place on my shelf” doesn’t remind me of when people sniffled glue 😭
I don't know Aurora but I can't imagine performing songs I wrote when I was 7 lol
Doja was definitely out of line, but expecting celebrities to not have an opinion on their own work is just dehumanizing.
Doja is so much, all she does is try so hard to be a edgy troll and get into scandals.
@@DilfLover-py2fxatp is it a troll? Being associated with neo nazis for years and recently wearing a shirt of Sam Hyde (a known neo nazi) lmao she's probably just like that
@@DilfLover-py2fx exactly. I’ve been done with her ever since the tiny chat shit came out. She’s clearly racist against her own race, which is a special kind of fucked up.
If they want us to see them as some sort of icon to worship then they gotta deal with the consequences
Fr they’re people with opinions too and get demonized for it 💀
i’ve been making art for over 10 years now and there’s art that my friends absolutely love, but i dislike it so much….like you said, just a natural progress of an artist!!
I used to burn my arts when I didnt liked them. That's how disappointed I was😭
My first encounter with this concept was when I was watching the Radiohead documentary "Meeting People is Easy", and there is a performance of "Creep" where Thom Yorke is just holding his microphone towards the audience, standing still, and just staring blankly into space as they sing the entire song.
We also gotta think about the fact that these artists sing these songs constantly. I know I have ruined songs for myself because I've listened to them too many times in a certain timespan. Feels totally understandable to me that someone who has to perform a song over and over again would be over it.
yeah, it's like putting a song you like as your alarm or ringtone. some of my favorite songs of all time have now become dull and repetitive to me because I've set them as my alarm.
Lou Reed famously recorded an awful album that he trolled fans and press with for years before finally admitting that it was just something to piss off the crowd that would scream at him in concerts to play Walk on the wild side.
unironically was one of the greatest and most influential albums of all time
@@ardan981which album is it?
@@zoinks7014im guessing theyre talking about Metal Machine Music
@@zoinks7014 yeah its metal machine music, a lot of people speculated that he made it for the reason op said. unfortunately its not exactly clear why he actually made it bc he has a lot of contradictory statements about its origins
declan mckenna has a great perspective on this i think. Brazil, his first song ever released(that he wrote at like 16 or 17) has blown up multiple times over the past 5 years on different platforms and even tho his music has evolved and changed a bunch he still happily performs it and expresses how grateful he is for the song and it’s reception. he pokes fun at it and makes a lot of jokes on social media about the song but still understands that people love it and that it marks an important moment in his career and life. (i love his music more than life). it doesn’t matter if he loves or hates the song, it doesn’t impact how he talks about it or treats his fans even if they ONLY like Brazil.
Yes!! i also think Clairo also has a good perspective . She wrote "pretty girl" as a teenager and it became one of here first big hits, and i don't think she is into her bedroom pop songs much but still appreciates her fans and still sings it at her shows!! She has shifted from a very DIY bedroom pop genre to more of a soft alternative indie style and she has changed a lot on her view with her mindset with music. I absolutely love Sling, Immunity, and all her other singles with the bottom of my heart :DD. I've also watched some of her interviews with others and she really shares how she is so grateful about her fans and her songs that got her to this point. I also love declan mckenna's music!!!
pink pantheress is so real for staying true to her releases, not saying that others are wrong for hating their songs some just arent taking it that maturely 💀
I don't think enough time has passed for her to truly hate and cringe at her older songs. I'm sure in 5 to 10 years she'll be like "although I'm thankful these songs changed my life, I've moved on from them/I don't like them anymore". All artists Dev mentioned have said something along those lines. The only one taking it immaturely is Doja. She isn't particularly tactful in general...
ariana’s hatred for bang bang goes way back it was so funny to follow it like it was drama between two celebs. she doesn’t even wanna sing it anymore and i think it also brought up embarrassment bc of the victoria’s secret and getting hit in the face. she joked abt it saying bang bang into my face 😭😭
doja's the only person who i think expressed these thoughts in a mean or "bitter" way. despite this, we've all seen how she's had to perform "say so" like a million times throughout the past 3 years so her disdain for that song is v understandable :/
I get her hate for the song, as she got heavy criticism for her pop music, and was marked as js another pop star, and someone who js made mediocre pop, and was forced into a box, from Hot Pink, and Planet Her, and she finally snapped and decided to pushback against those claims. I truly think it’s a mixture of the label issues and not being happy with the music she was making, and the fanbase that music garnered so she gained distain as she wanted to experiment and didn’t want to be a pop girlie, and she blew up insanely fast. I don’t think the mocking of her fanbase was necessary, but she clearly doesn’t like those songs, and is trying to not be a main pop girlie anymore.
TLDR: She’s justified but only to an extent, I don’t think the mocking of her fanbase was necessarily, and she didn’t want to be a pop girlie.
as an aspiring musician, I try really hard not to hate my older music, but I find myself deleting old stuff all the time and being thankful it didn't blow up. I do have a bunch of songs that I still love, but I find it so valid for these huge artists to hate their biggest songs
Save them!!! Don’t delete them!! Read Rick rubins book, the creative act. I think you’d like it
@@Halliebery I should probably re word that. I don't actually delete them. I just privatize them. I'll check out the book for sure
@@Skrkroyou can also rework them , remix them or sample them. Don’t let it go to waste.
I can completely relate to this. As an artist, I look back on my art from 5, 10, 15 years ago and I’m shocked that I allowed certain pieces to see the light of day. I think artists are hyper critical of their work and will always see the mistakes over the successes. It unavoidable. But I agree with the statement that it just means we’re growing and changing. ❤
I’ve been a fan of pink pantheress sense the beginning, I was happy when she went viral but I just wish it was a different song 😭
facts To Hell With it has good songs that are deep and lyrical good such as reason, nineteen and all my friends.
I'm a casual listener and I think she has better songs than that one.
genuinely. that one comment saying that’s her best song… like nooo 😭
@@zwaiii7572 Nineteen is a banger fr
HAPPY LITTLE DAY TODAY, SHOULD I SAY NIIIGHT
I SHOWERED
What's wrong with her, why does she looks like that?
@@emmanuelchavez7748SHE SHOWERED!!
@@emmanuelchavez7748 HUUUH?
@@DINOSAUR.KICKZZ 0:06
i know in an interview lizzy mcalpine said she hates "pancakes for dinner" but she doesn't berate her listeners for liking it. she understands that it may be people's favorites, and she's okay with that. she doesn't like it herself, but she doesn't criticize her listeners for it being their fav because she understands some songs hold more meaning than others.
Reading this comment made me feel like you just made up an artist and threw some words together and didn't expect anyone to question it (I'm sure she's real but I feel like I dropped into an alternate reality)
@@sillypplproductions2 just search her up 😭😭😭 listen to her new album it's so good
my old friend did an amazingggg sketch in one of my sketchbooks back in like middle school and i told her recently that i still have it and showed it to her and she HATED it. i still love it tho. it’s genuinely really good. but the fact she hates it just means her art now is immensely better. haven’t seen any of her new stuff tho unfortunately.
My favorite artist is Hozier. He is famous, but sometimes I had to say, "you know him. He's the Take Me to Church guy." He still perform that song with such passion although it was released 10 years ago. I went to his concert last week and when he sang that song I could feel the chill in my spine. It was such an emotional performance. While some artists would dislike their biggest hit since they are defined by and confined within a single song, artists who love every single thing they put out or only put out what is meaningful to them, will continue to love their works. Even if one day they grow to dislike it they'll still respect and understand why it performed so we'll.
Hozier is so goood omg
Hozier is so goood omg
I love doja’s pop music and for a long time I’ve looked forward to the opportunity to see it performed live, but now I don’t even want to see her live if I’m gonna be made fun of for enjoying the “mediocre pop” that she’s playing
yeah, i completely agree with you both. but unfortunately this drama overshadows the larger issue which is that doja is dating a known abuser and has discredited victims. we shouldn't support her, not just because of how petty and immature she is to the people who gave her success, but also just because... she's a disgusting person and/or needs a tremendous amount of therapy. imo she's actually not all there mentally, like kanye, but that doesn't excuse her disgusting choices.
I’m sure she was talking about the ones making fun of her all I’ve over the internet and not her actual fans, how is no one getting that
One artist who I think handles their biggest songs incredibly well is jack white with seven nation army. I’ve seen him live twice and he played it both times, and it sounded nothing alike. He changed it up so much it still sounds new especially for such a simple song and I loved it both times!
Usually the most popular song in an Artist's catolauge is the most popular for a reason. I mean there has to be at least some level of "universal good-ness" in the composition for a song to connect with that many people. (Even if it is just surface level like it "just has a catchy chorus" or something.) However, there is something to be said about music that aims to appeal to the widest ammount of people by sacrificing their creativity, which can be incredibly hard to draw the line on.
This reminds me a lot of the song Silver Warehouse by Silver Warehouse. It has been their most popular song consistently since they released it, but I know the band really doesn’t like playing it anymore. The song was titled incorrectly upon release (it was supposed to be called “Peace Signs”. Not self titled), and was written when they were still trying to figure out their musical style. It’s still a great song, but I can see why they might not like it as much.
I think part of it is having things demanded of you when performing, like did you all see that video of Billy Joel making fun on We Didn't Start the Fire because the fans at a recent concert were asking him to play it? You get to a point where you've performed it 1000+ times and i think it doesn't matter how good it is anymore you're gonna hate it.
This seems to be the main reason why Radiohead hates Creep (aside from it sounding pretty shit compared to their other music). Johnny Greenwood said during the band’s early tours, audience members would scream for them to play Creep, and then leave immediately after it was performed.
The Jonas Brothers wrote their first 4 albums when they were teenagers and it’s so seriously cool and like inspiring almost to here how much there sound has changed even just between their album from 4 years ago and the one they released in may but still all their old songs suit them and they play them all and like even one from their 2nd album is their favourite to preform and idek what I was trying to say in this comment but yeah, I just love how much they appreciate that those albums got them where they are today and those albums mean a lot to their fans, especially the ones who grew up with them and so they would never insult them or insult their fans for liking them
im an illustrator and have been in fandom spaces for over a decade, and it really reminds me of when people will draw for a specific show for a long time but naturally fall off of it and move on. and people will come to them for YEARS asking if they'll ever draw for that fandom again. and most of the time, people are apologetic about it and praise the fandom/media for what it was, but sometimes it gets to be a lot if you're hearing it all the time. it's like, i have new stuff i like. if you like my art, you should like it for what i draw about now... HOWEVER. berating fans or calling them stupid for liking your old stuff seems childish to me. like i get the annoyance but damn chill. you gotta remember the streisand effect--the more you try to avoid something, the more attention it'll get
I'm always going to think of Radiohead refusing to play Creep for a while. I can definitely imagine getting tired of playing the same song over and over, but it's so weird to see so many people this outspoken about it
This is like radiohead and creep
thats what i thought of too
She mentions Creep midway through the video
I’m a creep I’m a weirder
Here's a unique example:
Deftones have always hated the NuMetal lable that was placed on them between the release of their 2nd (Around the Fur) and 3rd (White Pony) albums. The record label wanted them to release a single that would be on White Pony that sounded more NuMetal. The band hated this idea but eventually gave in and took the bridge/melody from the last song on the album (pink maggit) and added a few rap lyrics on a faster paced, simpler version of it and Back to school(mini maggit) was born. It was wildly successful even though the band hates it and described creating it the way they did out of spite.
I personally think its a great song that really ties the album together, the story behind it/irony of it being one of their big ones makes it even better.
The trend of artists hating their biggest songs stems from the fact that hit songs are normally the songs the artist was against releasing in the first place
Record labels advise artists on what music direction to take and that leaves the artist feeling lost in the machine of music
The label recommends a certain sound and it becomes huge but now you hate it because that's not your vision as an artist
It's what you had to do to make money
With Yonkers id completely understand those lyrics were really weird, but i think what makes people still fall in love with it is the beat, the beat just has a great feel for it and sounds great.
Every time Dev uploads I start violently shaking the dinner table and spitting on my parents
imo people think artists look ungrateful when they hate on the things that gave them success, when it probably just has a different meaning to them because the success came with other experiences attached to that art
I really like it when you take a portion of the video to give advice about creating art and the feelings that come along with different journeys. Thank you for the upload!!
Anytime someone mentions Rebecca Black I’m always going to bring up her album Let Her Burn that came out in Jan of this year and its so good. I also love that she did a banger remix of Friday with Dillon Brady, Big Frieda, Dorian Electra, and 3OH!3 of all people.
I love your delivery & the way you say different words in different tones. It's so appealing.
As an artist this is very common in literally every form of art the thing you just shit out gets the most praise as oppose to the thing you put ur all into
"dance monkey, ever heard of it?"
*Glmv war flashbacks* 😭😭😭
Not an artist so idk but from what I’ve learned from Dev you hear your song over and over as its being made and after that so i can see how artists would be extra critical of their own songs especially the more popular catchy ones with not a lot of lyricism. Like I can see why they would hate that.
I think it is important to recognize that artists have a very different relationship to their music than fans do. I am super critical about the songs I make and it is hard to not deviate from the prospective of "how can I make this better" even years after it is done. It is disheartening to hear your favorite artist hates your favorite song by them, but I remind myself that, to them, it is just another project they worked on.
i think there's some validity to it, songs that are a bit more simple seem to be more likely to go viral just because they appeal to a wider audience - now simple doesn't necessarily mean bad, but if it's simple, it probably wasn't one of the more difficult ones to make making it feel "worse" in comparison to the songs you worked harder on - especially if those dont see the same acclaim. like the beat for boy's a liar is mind-boggingly simple, like a 12 year old could have made it, the keys or whatever has like no effects on it, it's barebones as fuck...but it's still lowk a hard beat
The first time I felt betrayed by this kind of thing was when MGMT came out and said they hated "Kids" and "Time to Pretend". But it's gotten easier since then because I've learned I hate myself and now I understand what they go through
Such and insightful video! People are surprised when I tell them I love all the songs I've ever produced and personally released. Some songs took over a year to perfect like "Beauty In Freedom" or "Towards New Beginnings" but I will say there are songs of mine where I would mix them differently now. For instance, "Sparkle" where I objectively messed up the mix by panning the matching cello and electric guitar solos too hard left and hard right that I wouldn't do that now that I have more experience. It irks me to this day that didn't mix that better, and so I totally understand these artists sentiments. Music is so personal and an expression of your deepest passions that when it is given to the public and doesn't succeed or certain songs succeed way more than you expected, you question everything you ever did. Or you play your songs for the first time in a live context and the bass doesn't hit right, or you don't agree with your lyrics from older songs as you mature, I get it. Such a great video and I relate. Talk your $H!T, Dev Limes! Love it!
While it may not be entirely equal for example with Doja Cat but I still think that people get more annoyed at female artists who don't like their old stuff than they do at male ones.
I mean of course that is going to happen. Way more Female artists say they don’t like certain songs than males do. Like alone the rap Genre alone some of the only males who said something like that was Tyler for Yonkers and Juice Wrld for Lucid Dreams
@@StevesRankings ig?? I don't think it should be a gendered thing, disliking your art
I'm an "artist" and I hate one of my songs. I was so afraid to have it tied to me that I created a whole alter ego for it. Amethysia Zeta. I might eventually get the confidence to promote it on my personal accounts but idk. I'm on Spotify only and I really think my music is for specific people. It's all instrumental, I'm completely okay if other artists want to sample parts of them (with some form of credit obviously. I'm not really in it for the money. I just know my music tickles my ears and I like that. And I hope others who like audio dances will like it too.)
Saying boys a liar is her best song is so disrespectful 😭😭😭 like just a waste, Pain , and picture in my mind exist
4:00 missed the perfect opportunity to reference Serve The Servants with the opening line "Teenaged angst has paid off well. Now I'm bored and old"
I have felt those awkward moments of improvement in my art where I look back and hate the creations that people love the most, gotten fed up with artwork of mine that puts my more personal work (or works of significant importance or accomplishment) in what seems like a permanent shadow of the STILL (for some reason!) popular piece that I have almost learned to hate; as if the popular piece is spiting my efforts at creative expression and improvement. So I totally get a musician getting sick of being chanted at to play the hits, concert after concert. For fans to cheer you on for work you did a decade or more ago and ignore your new work, work which you may feel is the best you've ever done. That has to be so tiring, sad, and painful, especially on a grand scale with thousands of supporters screaming for your older work.
The artists today saying "ha, you're dumb for liking this trash" seems harsh on the surface because it is. And despite the lack of filter, it's not negativity to be negative; the artist is feeling hurt. When an artist I like trashes a piece that I still enjoy to this day, I don't take it personally; they are well within their rights to be sick of their older work... I know I am! I can appreciate the work of another and not knowing the technical aspects behind it and flaws that might be there. I might not like a popular art piece of mine that I did years ago because Oof bad anatomy or bad technique but that doesn't phase some people... just how I may enjoy the hits of my favorite musical artists despite the artist seeing them as the musical equivalent of junk food or table scraps.
I also I wonder how much of their lashing out at the fans liking the hits is actually a commentary about the Music $Industry$ and their control/influence on the artist and the work they produce. Toward the end of your video and even in the Doja Cat lashing out video, I was thinking of the sentiments behind the Korn song "Y'all want a single". An artist typically wants to find opportunity to express themselves, experiment, and find satisfaction in the creative process other ways than just making some ear-worm pop chart topping hit. The Industry wants to make a hit. They want the single. They want the financial gains that comes with a rabid fan base and assume that changing the formula will ruin their profits. If the fans eat it up, it's success for those financially invested in the artist. Of course, I'm not super familiar with the industry and it does seem that the industry has loosened their grasp but the fans like what they like and sometimes they want a simple, catchy single!
Now in the ever expanding soul-suck that is social media and hearing peoples' opinions 24/7, an artist also might not have the filter in place or know how to communicate their complicated emotions when feeling cynical about their relationship with the industry, their work, and their fans. I could see how they might say, "Wow, you idiots fell for it. You made the investors $." at the same time they're feeling, "You don't like my real expression nearly as much as the content I was told to force feed you all... and it hurts that you just want me to stay a dumbed down commodity." Do they have the right to feel these complex emotions? Of course! Should they have said it the way they said it? Definitely not. Since their sentiments were so poorly phrased, the closest fans (ones who were dedicated to everything the artist does, even the experimental and personal and less fun) will take it the most personally. Yelling at the masses but scaring away your closest supporters... that's awfully sad to think about.
(Also hi! Been digging your posts for months despite this being a first comment - much LORF!
I wish she never made dance monkey too
As a musician I can an agree totally about having a nice don’t then growing to absolutely hate it. It’s just part of the creative process.
HI DEV !!! Any new music on the way. Like I know you are doing queef jerky…? Also it doesn’t matter if Tyler hates Yonkers I’m still going to punch dry wall to it.
I think this is a prime reason why Taylor Swift has such loyal fans. She’s put her heart into everything she’s created and she genuinely loves how much her fans love her music. And look how much more it’s paying off for her. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone even remembers who people like Tyler or Doja were in 20 years. We all know damn well Taylor cemented herself in history.
13th like😊
@@EmmaBozarth 🫶🏼
yes!! her philosophy about her old music is so admirable, im sure she doesnt like some of it but she sees it as a photo album capturing a moment in time, not something to judge, and understands that once it’s out in the world it’s for the listeners not just her. i’d die of embarrassment having to show ALL my oldest art to tens of thousands every night but she embraces the fact that it’s all part of her and without those songs she wouldnt have cultivated the current relationship she has with her fans
No we never know who will be cemented in history. Obviously poeple like whitney Huston and axl rose will be cemented in history for there high vocal ranges and Whitney's actual perfection over her musical ability but for everyone else who isn't a seriously good singer it's basically just a xoin toss. People have no idea how many really early singers have been forgotten about completely as years went bye.
SZA too, she hates that “kill my ex” bs and was sad that the laziest song went viral. I was shocked too as a long time SZA listener that it was THAT going viral. I hated that song it doesn’t show her skill and it’s overall mediocre. I also dislike “yandere” themes. I believe that its completely valid to hate ur own art, and be frustrated with the industry hyped up ur laziest work. it depends how u speak abt it. Let others who don’t enjoy it, i may have came off as rude or “gatekeeping”, but if anything, gatekeeping is the opposite of my intentions. I want more ppl to listen to more music of her as kill bill is the least of what she has to offer.
I feel the exactly same way. you can like whatever you want, but the problem is people pigeonhole that artist and don't care to look beyond their one most popular song, when as you say that doesn't showcase what they can do best a lot of the time. like people aren't going 'I like kill bill, I'll check out her other songs', they're going 'oh sza, that's that "I just killed my ex" girl'. I feel like people underestimate how frustrating it is to be put in a box, and then insulted for not liking something you made that may not resonate anymore, but that you are being incessantly reminded of.
hating a song you released is similar to looking back at the fashion you used to wear
either you look back on that and go its ugly, like I cant believe someone let me wore that is similar to people disliking their own music maybe because they think they've released better music since then or its overplayed so they're sick of it
'happy little day today' never fails to make my day a little more happy :)
Coincidentally, Dance Monkey was playing at the store today and my mom looked at me in horror and was like, "what the heck is this music? People like this?!"
make ur mom listen to money machine
Day say, moof fa me, moof fa me, moof fa me
Having heard the whole album, it's not a good song but by God is it definitely not even top 4 worst on the whole album lmao
I never bothered to try the whole album @@mr.froglegs
The way she sings is just...bad. I don't know how anyone can like it, either. The song itself is fine! I can't get behind her vocals. I feel like I'm listening to one of those indie artists who got transplanted
I somehow remember seeing somewhere that The Weeknd said something about how it hurts too much to sing a lot of what’s on trilogy and he doesn’t want to be taken back to that dark place
when i was in a band, i had several older songs i hated playing but my band mates still enjoyed playing them and people still enjoyed the songs but i just associated it with hating the lyrics and how i performed it or whatever
i think from my perspective being only a kid and a songwriter songs that i write i’ll cringe at A LOT looking back on just weeks or months after writing. i take it as a good thing though because like you said it’s growth. the very first song i recorded my family was the only ones to hear it and it’s quite literally my least favorite song. and that’s ok. ❤️❤️ loved the video dev😁
i dont care if any artist doesnt like their own work, im not concerned with that? i get sometimes its not handled well but literally who cares? its their opinion and theres plenty of stuff ive made that i hate now, i literally see no issue
The funniest\saddest thing about the outcome of Dance Monkey is that i feel like that's the whole theme of the song. Like hey keep doing that one thing we like over and over forever!
Some other artists that hate their popular songs:
* Britney Spears - Sometimes: Has said she "never liked that song anyway"
* Mandy Moore - Candy: Has said that, if she had the means, she would offer anyone who bought her first two albums a refund. Candy she particularly disliked, mocking it in performances, by saying "how can you miss someone like candy?"
* P!nk - Don't Let Me Get Me: Has said she would burn that song if she could
* Ariana Grande - Why Try/Put Your Hearts Up: As a response to fans requesting Why Try, she said that she didn't understand the fans' obsession with that song. She has publicly slammed Put Your Hearts Up. People assumed she also slammed her song Touch It, but I think she said "that shit's boring" instead of "Touch It's boring". Also, she has mocked Problem and Break Free for being too radio-focused and for her sounding a bit chipmunky.
* Lady Gaga - Telephone: Has said she hates Telephone, because of the recording process and how grueling it was
* Kelly Clarkson - A Moment Like This/Breakaway: Has stated multiple times that she likes neither song. Funny thing is that Avril Lavigne, who wrote Breakaway, also didn't like the song
* Evanescence - My Immortal: Amy Lee has also often said she didn't like this song
* Vanessa Carlton - A Thousand Miles
* Eminem - Cleaning' Out My Closet: Has said he regretted going in on his mother so hard as he does in this song
* TLC - Creep: Left Eye has said she didn't agree with the message of the song
* Mariah Carey - Hero/Someday: Mariah doesn't like Someday at all and has been very vocal about this. She has also said she didn't really vibe with Hero, but that nowadays, she does like to perform it, because of the effect it has on so many fans.
* Selena Gomez - Come & Get It: Has said she felt like this feels like a Rihanna reject and it's difficult to perform live.
Kurt Cobain hated "smells like teen spirit" so he ended up performing it purposely badly, it's pretty funny
Artists that got huge off an early track, I can understand them getting tired of it or growing past it. With modern pop artists, a lot of them aren't writing the songs so I also understand how they could hate them.
This isnt a new thing btw, most artists do not write their own songs, even going back to the 50s and probably beyond. The singer-songwriter is more common now, but still not necessarily the norm
Rebecca black didnt deserve the hate the song was a banger we just didnt realize it yet
I think the most amazing bit of info I learned from this video is that Rebecca Black has a music career as an adult. I am so glad you told me that, I have to check that ish out right now.
Actually pinkpantheress said they misinterpreted her interview, she meant she didn't like the song before but after the remix it grew on her and ended up liking it.
There's a point where every single person will have their first experience with art that actually makes them appreciate it. It can be a small thing, or it can be BIG in order to reach them in the first place, it can be something that would otherwise seem oversaturated and overdone but it just _clicks_ with the viewer better than anything else. It's just so stupid to turn around and demean people for connecting with art, no matter its age or origin. Art isn't just about the process of making or having it exist, 1/3 of art is about that art being percieved. The true value of a piece is found in combination with the hearts and minds of its fans and viewers. And that can suck for an artist! But it's still a MAJOR factor, so it's rude and egotistical to dismiss it outright.
A great example of this is Lady Gaga besides "Telephone"... When she released the album "Artpop", she wanted the song "Aura" (originally titled as Burqa, she changed the song due to it's possible implications with Islam) as the intro of the album, but her executives said no and instead wanted "Applause" as the song is more catchy than "Aura".. She then leaked "Burqa" online later on....
The album itself is beloved by her fans but was considered as flopped, and Lady Gaga hasn't mentioned that album ever since like it doesn't exist at all🤣🤣🤣
Man aura is SUCH a good song... my soul Always dances when i play it
Artpop is amazing ❤
It's a nostalgia thing for me with Yonkers and a lot of early stuff by artists, it's hard to beat that.
i remember this happening with nirvana and smells like teen spirit. they would either refuse to play it at gigs or take the piss out of it which is honestly fair with the amount of times they performed that damn song. and as a big Nirvana fan i can say that they have some AMAZING songs that are just as good or far better than teen spirit (i recommend Very Ape 2013 Remix and Been A Son)
I feel like these artists never originally disliked those songs but grew to dislike them because of their popularity, especially when they think they've done better work. There's nothing wrong with thinking that your hit song isn't your greatest or that you no longer like it, but saying that it's "trash" or something similar is disrespectful not only to the fans but yourself as an artist.
Idk why dev didn’t mention it, but Tyler didn’t just roast the kid, he did play it as you can briefly hear, and idk if he truly does feel that way bc he tends to troll like all that clip was him on stage trying to make the crowd laugh
Everytime i get a silly notification i drop whatever I’m doing and watch like a iPad baby
I think its totally normal for an artists opinions to change on their own work, and its totally valid to express that publicly. The thing that always REALLY annoys me though is when an artist claims that their hit song was a "joke" or "satire" all along, which i think is always BS. Some of my favorite artists have pulled this, like MGMT, De La Soul, Aphex Twin, and a few others. Its always so obvious that theyre only claiming their big songs are "satire" because they got so big and overplayed, and they want to express their frustration but in a way that still makes them seem super smart and artistic. Its understandable, but also really cringe. Like what's so hard about just admitting you made a song that you no longer feel proud of? For example, its really hard for me to believe that "electric feel" was intended to "make fun of pop music" like MGMT claim.
I did a weird mash up remix of some Deaf grapes stems with my guitar and sound harvests a few years back. I stopped busking with it after a year of doing so. Then, a few months ago, I shared it with an electronic music club i joined-- they liked it but it was embarrassing hearing the worst master of all time on a song that was 3/4's pre-mastered from the stems. I don't like the song, but the guitar and stems are still close to my heart. shout out to sound engineers for being the real MVPs!
I feel like you can hate your songs lol, but like to hate on your fans them liking it? just ugh..
every artist no matter your crafts is going to hate their old original works especially toward the early 20’s and late 40’s. But it feels like the older you get the more you enjoy your older works too you didn’t care and just did what you wanted too no restrictions from expectations.
I don’t care if an artists says they don’t like some of their songs. its pretty normal for artists to have imposter syndrome. I think It’s the way that some artists express it is what people don’t like.
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literally my niece has been going through my sketch books and says “oh these are so good! When did you draw these!” And I’m looking at it like??? That’s a good drawing? Where but like I was also a child when I drew those ya know I have more skills now and can see what I can do differently when I look at my old art works now instead of just looking and admiring the skills I DID have when I made it
REM haaaaated Shiny Happy People-tho I think Michael Stipe has softened his POV on this.
Loved the video and discussion!
i LOVVEEE tyler sm but gonna be honest kinda felt weird abt how he talked abt the sign.. glad u also feel that way
its also very much that often the most successful songs are the one with the widest appeal, so often more generic/less personal from the artist's point of view. in my very extremely small scale experience, one of my most played songs ever that keeps getting attention is a thing i did for fun in like 2 hours and uploaded without a second thought, which is way more accessible to a general audience than the music I'm actually proud of. so it's a bit annoying when everyone seems to like a thing I think is cheap and required no effort to make but ignore the music I actually want to be known for
I think it's understandable for someone to dislike their most popular work. since it's the most popular people at the shows tell the artist "DO THIS SONG" or something along those lines so they're either tired of preforming it and or being told to perform it
I think it’s also a factor of being fearful of falling off telling everyone I’m better than what you know me by I make other songs that are better and that I still have time in this industry and have more to offer
Before even watching the vid, can say the songs of Dev's that have blown up (or the vids of YTers that have gotten the biggest response) are not my fav nor their best work. I've seen growing artists be surprised at what blows up and become endeared to that work like oh people really like this ergo it's one of my best, and of course they'll be glad for the recognition and traffic it drives, but also valid for artists to express their most popular work not being their fav. See MGMT and Kids etc. When ur that successful maybe you come to resent what tertiary (majority) fans know you for, and their lack of recognition of your other work. OKAY video now thank you for making and posting. Ignore me y'all, obviously.
As an artist I can relate to hating your most popular work lmfao. Everything I've ever made that I love has gone unnoticed and unloved and 5 second doodles I do will pop off
Let’s not forget Gotye and Somebody that I used to know. He has the most eclectic and colourful catalogue of sounds spanning 3 albums that nowhere NEAR enough people appreciate.
Random reminder that Tones and I is absolutely amazing and Bad Child by her is like everything
that tyler clip was so fucking funny
If you make music yourself you would know how much different artists see their music than the listener, the most random stuff goes viral while your best works goes unnoticed
I think the Tyler thing is a little different, because Yonkers is not representative of who he is now, and it has some lyrics in it that he'd never say today (ie not using the f slur) and a lot of the people who like it more than his other music tend to be the ones who say stuff like "yeah I like him even though he's gay" and are homophobic despite Tyler literally being queer
I do think one issue is that since most of these songs are pop (not all of them) most people listening to pop know its shallow and superficial so they can only indulge in it to a certain extent meaning that when u get a boys a liar or a Friday or even a creep most people just see it as a representation of the artist entire sound thinking there's not much more to offer then their "best work" and pretty much just spit them out like chewing gum being viewed more as a come n go novelty than a artist
Something that i usually find is that the song that goes crazy viral has usually nothing to do with the rest of the band/artist music
I think he didn’t ignore the sign because he planned to preform it. When i saw IGOR in 2019 he did the same thing!
This reminds me of the time brendon urie yelled “fuck I hate this song” or something during I write sins a long time ago
A very interesting trend
One thing I think has to be granted to Taylor Swfit, regardless of your feelings towards her overall, is that she performs her biggest hits with the same love and adoraiton she has always had and does not falter for even a second. She even talked about it in an interview that she's incredibly aware of how it may be her thousandth time playing a song (at a bare minimum...) but it's oftentimes most people's first time hearing it live. Having a healthy level of respect and celebration for all of her musical eras - regardless of how she may or may not feel about them personally - is one of the biggest reasons she's at the height she is at. No matter what your favourite era is, you feel like Taylor loves it too, which helps everyone feel included and if they dislike a more recent release they don't feel isolated from Taylor because of it. Compare this to artists that shit on their fan favourites or big singles. No shade intended, this was ages ago, but I always vividly remember a clip of Ariana Grande being asked to sing 'Why Try', which to my knowledge isn't even a single just a fan fav track on one of her albums, and she groaned and kicked her feet and said it was so boring. I can't imagine how that must've felt for whoever requested it - it's a bad look, imo. There's levels to it too - there's Doja rolling her eyes doing the Say So dance, which is decently funny and in-character, and there's actually talking about your hatred or dislike for songs to your fans faces.
I realliy appreciate that you discourse comes from a place compassion, understanding, and learning lessons.
“NOW IM AN ADULT WITH A SALARY” 😂😂😂