The DJI RS3 Pro is disappointing
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
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#canon #c70 #RS3PRO - Фільми й анімація
Hey! It seems like people are getting their best results in SuperSmooth mode. The manual says SS is for “fastmoving scenarios” which we didn't have here… but I’m interested to see if that’s the magic trick to stable RS3 Pro footage even with slow shots. Also, can it just be left on all the time? I’ll be testing that in my next video!
I use supersmooth on my rs2 and I’ve shot at 70mm on the c70 and it’s been great with a little post
Supersmooth is great for slow shots as well, as it makes the motors more stiff' while keeping the smooth degree at a very high level, so the footage won't be neither robotic or shaky.
The 2 bad thing with supersmooth is:
1, As the motors go on higher clock, the battery time will be greatly reduces. Like normal mode: 11-12 hours. SS - 6-8 hours.
2, You will need lens holder or it won't work and you won't be able to use vario lens, or you need to change lens holder position on each vario change.
EF 70-200mm III on R5C (with battery grip) tested and smooth with SS. This gimbal is nuts!
Here are some real pro tips to actually fix the issue you are experiencing.
The issue at hand is actually called Micro-Jitters and it happens because of two things, One is the literal vibrations or shock going through your body into your arms and into the Gimbals motors therefore into the head of the Gimbal and into the camera, and two, it's the gimbals motors constantly trying to correct its self to be centre.
Stiffness will keep the gimbal more rigid and you should lose that wobble effect but the stiffer you go those wobbles can turn into like a small shock-like jolt to your image with each step you take, and if you keep going too stiff the motors will just vibrate so you need to find a middle ground where you are happy between less stiffness and wobble and the stiffer jolts but below are all the things you can try to then reduce that even further.
Number 1 Try to hold the gimbal as tightly and with as much surface area with your hands as you can, If you held the gimbal with one hand and literally slapped the bottom of the stand the gimbal will vibrate quite violently because you just threw a bunch of shock and vibrations into the motors and they freakout making lots of jitters, but if you repeated the same thing and held the gimbal with two hands the gimbal will freakout far less and be much more sturdy because your hands are apart of the systems rigid-ness (Hand placement can matter also, Hold it close to the head)
Number 2 Holding the gimbal upright is usually far better than in flashlight mode due to the way the weight and motors are distributed.
Number 3 Strap the lens down! or support the lens, The more physically rigid your system is the better, trust me this makes a big difference if you're using large long lenses with matte boxes and filters on them, The flex between the Ronin Plate, Camera body or camera cage to the lens can be quite significant, not so vital if you're using very small and light lenses.
Number 4 Run the motors in super smooth mode, While documentation is super limited as to what this actually does, I assume it runs the motors in like an overdrive mode where they fight even harder to keep the gimbal smooth by having the motors work extra hard to correct movement from the acts of walking etc, This requires the lens to be strapped down ideally.
Number 5 Run the motors as stiff as you can before they start to vibrate and freak out, Do an auto-calibrate and basically immediately add stiffness to the axis you know are wobbling too much and add stiffness until you find a middle ground where it feels like a happy medium between wobble and jolts, again this requires a firm-wide grip and the better the grip the stiffer the motors can be, however the cost is those wobbles can turn into small shock-like jolt you need to find a middle ground.
Ultimately the motors are constantly trying correct for not just movements but also stay rigid enough to not let outside shock push them around, Running with Gimbals is basically always a nightmare because of the shock through your arms goes straight into the motors and into the head, But all of this helped reduce all of the horrible issues you mentioned here, A Rigid camera system being number 1 and Stiffness settings also being a big factor but it's a balance to get more stiffness without going too far before it becomes unreliable, Stedicams and Glidecams glide while Gimbals take more work to get that same motion. I hope this helps.
Can I reach out to you by any chance? You have experience I don’t and I figured you’d be able to point me in the right direction 😊
this guy knows what's up
From both an engineering and self-experience perspective I can only say: your explanation is spot on.
By design, a gimbal, plus camera with lens and a human grip it, is a system that (by physical nature) is able to swing. Only fine adjustment of many parameters can prevent or reduce the swinging of such a system.
Great stuff. But then why did they only have the issue on one gimbal and not the other? Seems like a bad unit or something. Might've not understood the video.
@@virityrealtual3831 I'm not sure, and all honestly I remember my RS2-C giving me buttery results but my RS-2 is so inconsistent I avoid gimbals because even I struggle so much to get results that feel truly smooth.
I find that a small compact system that is rigid, tends to be the ultimate goal, like from the lens to the body it all just needs to be stiff and supported.
But movies like The Creator Shot all on FX3's and RS3 Pro's all in vertical flashlight mode which is super interesting, If I ever try Flashlight mode I always get worse results so I have no idea how some people do it, other than keep your camera stripped bare, tight, rigid never too long or too tall.
I feel a little let down here. I was really hoping for some actual gimbal tuning techniques that can help resolve this and not just post stabilization. Post stabilizing can work wonders but it has it's limitations, especially when shooting with 180 degree shutter. You'll have weird motion artifacts from stabilizing. The goal should always be getting it as smooth as possible out of camera. I really hope you make a part 2 where you dive into the gimbal itself.
Workin' on it!
Same
I agree . I shoot only manual lenses , beautiful cinema . technique is everything .. perhaps the guy should do some weight training . puny little arms will induce jitter
Crazy helpful! I've been wondering exactly this - IS vs. non IS. Just started using a gimbal for the first time recently.
thats mad helpfull , appreciate this video so much ! Quick q, what do you think about zooms (24-70 for example) on a gimball like this ? Does it make sense to invest in wider lense primes ?
Thank you once again for sharing these awesome tips! I get my RS3 today so this was very helpful!
One big thing that helped me is fixating the lens with this little support stand. Especially if you use any adapters
Another great video, always informative & entertaining too. Thinking of getting a gimbal myself, very helpful info!
Hey, thank you for these videos, they are great. I am using good old Ronin S + C70 + EF 16-35 f4 + speedbooster and it works very smooth. It looks that it works even better than RS3. That is surprising. Maybe it is because the lens is stabilised, but after all I am very happy with the result. The only modification I had to do is add counterweight on the gimbal - cca 280g. Anyway NOT having IBIS in C70 is one of it's big advantages - every camera I worked with - even FX3 had some issues with the IBIS - micro jitter, but also focus jitters. The footage from non IBIS cameras looks more natural even you see the movement. I really did try A LOT of cameras to find out that IBIS won't be a selling point for me and then I went with C70. Again - thank you. M.
When I had my RS2 Pro I have really bad jitters with my Pocket 6k Pro. I did loads of testing and here is what I did which I found helped, I replaced the DJI plate with a small rig one which eliminated the small arca Swiss one which elevates the camera a little and give less opportunity for flex.
I also increase the motor stiffness of the roll axis, I found increasing it just until it starts to vibrate and then backing it off a little.
Thank you for the Video. Is there a plugin like fcpx for davinci as well?
this happens usually when the gimbal cant perfectly hold the camera in the current position. this can be due to unbalance camera on the gimbal, or the camera is almost/over the max load of the motors. calibration can help but sometimes wont fix this. this requires trial and error of balancing the camera on the gimbal and practice, till you find the perfect spot, then you mark there on the gimbal arms. all the best.
Have you found horizontal drift on the RS3? Mine seems to wander pretty easily.
Good stuff.
I just had an issue while I was running with the Ronin, the footage was shaky. I have since bought the top mount and will have to make an lens support mount. Hoping that fixes my issue.
Why my rs 3 pro is same like yours when you press fold button its not completely fold.
It goes to a mostly closed mode when you lock it if it's balanced in a way that doesn't allow it to fully close. Totally normal.
Love your videos, dude! I was hoping for some secret sauce, but it's what I've been doing all along! LOL! Keep up the good work.
Hey, try the supersmooth option on the rs3 pro, pretty sure you'll get rid of 95% of those micro jitters on longer focal lenghts. I shot some of my shots on 200mm on the rs3 pro with supersmooth enabled and had little to no micro jitters at all
Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely test that. I thought SuperSmooth was just for intense situations like car rigs or a super telephoto lens as you mentioned. Do you just always leave it on, even for simple tracking shots on wide lenses like these?
@@SoundItOutFilms Agreed. I leave super smooth on 100% of the time. It helps to slow down the movement to look less jolty, but I feel it also smooths out the motors for micro jitters. Would be interesting to see an actual test though.
I just always leave it on, it solves the same exact thing about micro jitters that you are talking about in this video. Or most of it. Tested it personally for a project where I was trying to put 200mm on the gimbal for some smooth dolly like shots and no slow motion(also used the ibis in this case). Worked perfectly without any micro shake
I’ve left this on since my RS2 and I use a 16-35mm lens most of the time
When I use supersmooth mode, I can feel some vibration on Gimbal is this normal or just me..?
Amazing video! I have been unboxing the RS3 Pro today- so the timing of your video is perfection.
I shoot with the R5C and R3, sounds like the R3 with the IBIS should be the camera I’m using on the gimbal.
So to confirm, if you have IBIS use it. If you don’t have IBIS don’t use digital IS- better to try and stabilize in post…right?
Exactly!
Software stabilization glitches out because it expects movement. it will act weird on a tripod, this video showed something that was mentioned long ago. Digital IS tracks things that move. so if you jump up and down in front of a camera that is stationary it will probably wobble to track the object in front.
Never had this issue with Sony fx6 with image stabilisation turned on the lens
Hee hee, gimbals,
Yeah there is a number of things to consider.
Just to add some techniques, dos and don'ts:
1. Try not to use flashlight mode or tilted, less stable footage
2. Add a monopod to the gimbal, it adds as a counter balance, semi steadycam.
3. Keep it close to the body
4. When close to the ground or for lower shots, use upside down, it acts like a pendulum to give better stabilisation.
I get people want ultra smooth images, but does the viewer really see it unless they are a videographer? Also what is better? Handheld you are limited to very slow walking, steadcams take longer to work with and are not as versatile and dollies are big and time consuming.
I really love gimbals, if you are inventive you can get shots other stabiliser systems can't do.
Thanks for not sugar coating the shortcomings of equipment. Subscribed!
Had some issues with my Ronin S on an FX3, the jitters are horrible. I do find using the app and testing the balance then doing a motor test helps. 50p footage and warp stabiliser is always fine but no good for when you need audio or real time motion.
I'm a Canon shooter as well, and one thing I really wish they had that Sony has is the Gyro data recorded in the camera. You can use catalyst browse from Sony to analyze the footage and smooth it out using real shake data from the internal accelerometer and smooth it out much more procedurally. I also edit in Resolve now, and there are many stabilization methods built in, but one thing I love about the color pages "classic stabilizer" is that it allows you to ignore sections of a video and just track areas that are good reference points. Very powerful for when objects occlude the frame or if the main subject is moving in the frame.
Thanks for the comment! I'll check out that feature in Resolve. Considering how amazing their tracking is for power windows I'm not surprised their stabilization is great too.
@@SoundItOutFilms It's definately a little hidden, but worth a peak. There is also the fusion tracking system too, and you can lock onto objects as well if needed too. All very powerful stuff. For my C70 I did find myself using the 24-105 vII since it had the new IS system and I definitely had better results than with IS turned off. But, hey the best would be if Canon could just write the gyro data (if it exists) to the video codec. Sony AND Blackmagic cameras both do that now.
@@avdcam the xf-avc codec on the c70 has metadata in it. It might be possible if someone makes the software.
@@RayValdezPhotography It does, just not the gyro data, afaik, canon's codec just doesn't record the accelerometer data at all.
@@avdcam I mean could it be possible with a firmware update?
I'm confused when you guys say that IBIS is important for stable footage. My understanding always has been that IBIS and gimbals don't always work together well as sometimes they are doing contrary things and it causes a jiggly image. This is why cinema cameras generally don't have IBIS. Apologies if I'm missing something obvious about this dynamic - I'm a relative beginner.
so sony dont need shut ibis down when in gimbal?
Imprecisely state. The wider lens doesn't make the bump smoother, rather, it makes them much less noticeable.
Sony's - Catalyst Browse was already excellent but the 2022 Update has taken it even further by allowing you to stabilize in just about any video format/setting your in. But - Only for the newer Sony A7SIII & IV and the other newer models priced Upwards from that price point.
How do you find it works with a normal 180 degree shutter?
Here comes the best C70 content out there again
Haven't read the comments to see what others are saying... but I love the super smooth feature on the RS2. I have that turned on and I feel like it helps me?? I also think Resolve has the most advanced built in stabilizer of all of these programs.
Have you tried shooting in 30 for a 24 timeline - gets a little float without the slow motion effect. Also, to limit shakes when not shooting slow motion on the rs3 pro, I’ve come to really like steadicam’s monopod air as way to give my body more balance when I move and get my hands away from the gimbal/battery grip all together.
Lastly, after a good handful of tests and additional UA-cam searching, I’ve come to the conclusion if your package weight is balanced, but favors a side by design - auto calibrate then add in more stiffness in the ronin app and sometimes more strength.
My current setup uses the c70, smallrig cage, DZO cyber 35, LiDAR RS, and focus motor RS. I can balance the whole setup pretty easily, but in motion the auto settings don’t seem to give it enough strength to compensate for the movement. Adding a few extra points into strength and stiffness usually fixes the problem :)
Do you add the extra stiffness to the normal or super smooth mode?
I just ordered one, and my only concern is that when I turn it off, it doesn’t fold all the way. The roll arm slides into about 75% of its folded position. I noticed your buddy’s did the same thing at 1:52 here. Is there a fix for this???
I think that's just what happens with heavier rigs. Totally normal.
That’s normal. It’s because the arms are carbon fiber and it’s to protect the arm from being forced closed on itself or other equipment in the way. The RS3 arms extend farther out for bigger camera setups, and if one of the arms is fully extended while it auto closes it could be damaged. Let me just say it’s bullshit that DJI makes a product like this without any manual or literature whatsoever for an 800.00 piece of equipment- it’s like you’re forced to google shit or go on forums and try to figure it out on your own. Not good.
Appreciate the video, but this makes me nervous about buying the product. Been flying with the Glide-cam for years and don't really feel the need to stabilize my footage in post. Hummmm, I need more research after seeing this.
Folks,
I figured out a very powerful and simple trick to get rid of most (if not all) micro jitters of ANY gimbal!
Background ( I keep it non-engineerial): for any perfectly balanced axis the closed control loop is permanently trying to detect even small deviations from the desired balance. Even worse, to correct micro deviations only very little forces of the motors is required.
That, in combination with what has been discussed in the other comments, leads physically to some instability of any electronically controlled mechanical system, with little over-reactions of the control loop, that we recognise as unwanted micro jitters of our gimbals.
The hack is so easy:
1) perfectly balance all 3 axis
2) bring the jittery axis (most often the roll axis) very slightly out of balance to one side - just a very tiny bit
3) experience a totally new gimbal experience
I came to this idea by remembering my cybernetics lectures during my university times 35 years ago😮
This hack was and still is applied in many sorts of stabilisation of mechanical systems in vehicles, helicopters, airplanes, missiles, etc. very complex systems do even conduct a little off-balancing automatically as part of their calibration.
I had this same shake on the original Ronin-S and the RS2.
Performance of Ibis in other camera systems may vary.
does Neil have ibis on standard or active mode on his fx3
I think typically standard.
bmpcc 6k same problem here. but A7M4 is work fine
IBIS is not digital IS. Y'all used the two terms interchangeably, and they are not at all the same
Makes me wonder if getting a gimbal is worth it now. I get the same result using an R6 and that warp stabiliser when required also. If the gimbal isn’t helping then seems a lot of money for nothing.
love this nerd-out (but useful!) stuff
Great Content. Thank You For Sharing. Have a Nice day!❤👍
Love Neal! 😂😂😂 worked with him on a few weddings.
I swear, gimbals used to be far more stable than this when they were upside down with two handles...
Ahahaha fantastic, informative and funny video Eric!
optical IS can "shift" somtimes when paning around
Neal's work is incredible, have been following him for years. As for the RS2/RS3, I think the biggest issue is the c70 is just on the larger side and is not hitting the sweetspot of the gimbal properly.
Yea, he’s the man! As for the c70’s size, I don’t think that’s the issue because we also tested Neal’s tiny FX3 on the gimbal without IBIS and it was just as shaky.
@@SoundItOutFilms The shake definitely has me think it's an issue with motor strength, which is understandable in a gimbal with such a small footprint. There could also be issues with the strength of the arms themselves, the rigidity of the carbon fiber frame doesn't lend itself to absorbing the shock of harder impacts (i.e. heavy footsteps). I think this is why easy-rigs are so popular with gimbals, not only does it lessen the stress on your arms but it's also absorbing the little movements on impact.
I had to use counter weights for the arm and cradle with the rs2, but the rs3 is sold with my c70, no offset for the mount and no need to counter wieght - it was the main reason I upgraded.
@@MrMoviePhoneEx Im on the rs2 and do you find it was worth the penalty of losing money to really go to the rs3? Also what counter weights did you use? I think i might have to use one for the tilt.
@@SoundItOutFilms Honestly, the issues you have run into have come up a little bit for me too. It's partially why i still have my glidecam till handy, especially if the shoot pace is insane
I have the same kind of jitters on my RS3... And IBIS didn't solve the problem for me (Sony A7III), even in Supersmooth mode...
I've been talking with DJI the whole summer and I'm at the point of sending it back to them...
I had a Weebill-S before and ended up re-buying it, second hand when I realise how much the RS3 ruined my footage the entire summer (filming from festival to festival and concerts and events, I had literally no time to review it)
For some reason, in my case footage seems more jittery at a wide angle than zoomed in, maybe because most jitters seem to come from the roll axis, so the compression helps in this case ? 🤔
And, I would love to be able to shoot in 30p but Sony doesn't allow to use 30p in a PAL region -_-
To note: I shoot often 50p or 100p, remember that 100p disable the IBIS on A7III 🧐
My understanding is IBIS creates the issues to an extent. That's why cinema cameras don't have IBIS - the ibis and gimbal don't always sync up well. Apologies if this is something you're aware of and I'm missing the point. Potato Jet addresses this when discussing the R5C.
In the UK you can put your sony cam in NTSC mode, so shoot 30p if that's what you're looking for?
Soooo..... would you recommend a RS3 Pro over a Ronin S? 😁
Good stuff 👍🏾🆙
So you simply did not get stable gimbal footage…. ?
Catalyst Browse GYRO DATA Stabilization for sony camera
work with in body stabilizing on as well, at least on my sony a7iv
OK I guess I am not the only one.. very disappointed with RS2 and Sony A7IV combo.. I used to work with BM cameras and DJI S and there was no problem..
Do you guys ever get back pain from doing gimbal work? I have the RS 3 without any extra handles and the fact that it’s top heavy gives me a lot of back pain 🤷🏻♂️ should o just get dual handles? I feel like that will sort out the issue and make the footage more smoother?
I also have back pains. Came from the Weebill s and had zero problems
This is an $800 hand gimbal. It's not going to eliminate all jitters. It's not going to replace a dolly, or a full steadicam rig, but it will make your footage so much smoother than going handheld. And it allows you to get smoother footage at angles that would be impossible to get going handheld, like low ground pushes. The gimbal isn't disappointing, it's amazing if you have the right expectations for it. Haha and the RS3 is sooooo much better than that old one...
Can't argue with you there. What would be a more accurate title? "No, the RS3 Pro isn't magic" or "RS3 Pro | Temper Your Expectations" I'm open to suggestions!
Am i missing something? What happend to the footage when the IS was on? It was never pointed out? What was the glitch?
The camera locks onto the subject so the entire frame bobs up and down
is DJI RS3 pro gimbal compatible to iphone 13 pro max and 14?
Rsc2 was such better in smooth footage than rs3
2022 and no use of davinci software yet? :o
How dare you call out the KING 👑 Mr. Snyder ! Haha jk, very insightful and I had the same issues but figured it out.
I literally only wear boots though…
😂
Perhaps try doing weight training not to be rude . Those puny arms will absolutely induce jitter . I shoot only manual lenses . technique ,technique and relaxed loose flow . you can't shoot jitter free if your body is straining . I have the same body type as you and the fresher I am the better my gimbal shots
30 fps slows 80% and u got 24 fps final result.
WARP STABILIZER AT 6:30MIN. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME.
Is it pronounced gimBUL or gimBEZ?
🙏🏾👍🏾
All you guys do is shoot and the footage looks like this? Oh boy.