I don’t even play league, but what I like about this episode is almost all the advice applicable to many endeavors in life. Themes such as deep and critical thinking and the importance of being humble and open so to not jump to conclusion. These all help in inner and outer relationship with yourself and others and make one more apt to succeeding in life and not falling into the larger trap of being a victim.
Absolute banger this one. Definitely an S tier episode. The practicality of showing how high elo content creators can really influence the community is something that needs to be understood and you guys are being the ones to push a good message
I've really been focusing on improving the skill of reviewing, so much so that now after I review my three block, I then review the review to see where I went wrong within the review.
@@billybobbobson3797 Imagine thinking that malpractice in a craft doesn't damage the reputation, credibility and overall image of other craftsmen in the said craft.
this podcast episode is a good sum up for why i love the MLA. (im not a jungler so cant speak for Nathan, sorry Nathan) i just love and respect Curtis as a coach so fucking much, appreciate his presence in the community a ton. I only can wish for him (and Nathan too ofcourse) to have a bigger voice as time passes by with more and more impact on the community. Will be pushing the positive messages about soloQ myself to do my part, how to improve, how to enjoy and how to translate all off the time spend on a game into your real life to make it beneficial.
I actually saw him blame the game after he tried to review his replay after resetting his red buff for the 12th game straight on Kindred. His chat told him what he was doing wrong and he just wouldn't listen, claimed the game was broken lmfao.
Thank you so much for this video! As someone who's learned a good 60-80% of his league knowledge from Neace, I really want to cheer him on. In spite of his brash, and sometimes toxic, personality, Neace the coach often delivers really good advice. It's very frustrating then to see Neace the player throw out all the advice he just gave to his clients and make exactly the same mistakes that he yells at them for. Then he pulls a Trump like ego maneuver to shield himself from criticism by attacking those who critique him and come up with ways to dismiss what they say rather than parsing the feedback for any value. But commenting on that as someone who hasn't even played a single ranked game yet is rather ineffective. I don't have any clout. But to have you both, with proven track records, pointing it out, you might be able to effect some change in him. I hope he takes your advice to heart because I really would love to see him enjoying his games and achieving his challenger goal.
" As someone who's learned a good 60-80% of his league knowledge from Neace" PEPEGA man:< you can turn back there still is a light on the end of this tunnel
Good comment by you. Also it shows that he never was a challenger coach because his decision making wasnt. Its painful because his brand goes to shit in real time but also its feeding us hope that no more people will get fraud by neace 350$ coaching thats value sho-uld be 35$ but actually value is NEGATIVE. He makes his clients develop bad habbits its sort of going to doctor for 350$ he does sth worth 35$ but later youi will beed 3500$ to help what he did to you. I think that neace shold be taken to court by all his clients all together and sue him for this. ALSO I think its time more and more content creators show real face of neace (D4 hard stuck) not multi role challenger.
Hey guys, randomly found out about the podcast, listened to a few episodes, now I'm starting from episode 1! If I had any doubt, hearing Curtis say he hates the word cringe (remember 2013 when people still used that word? Those were the days!) sold me. I started watching NEACE a year ago, I hope he sees your video because you guys made mostly really good points without really shitting on him. I do enjoy his stuff too (minus the video in question), so I'm curious to see how he reacts. You guys were quite respectful as always.
This was so helpful! I’ve been struggling with reviews (there’s such little info available about how to review.) This unlocked some ideas on how to approach my reviews. Thanks!
i just discovered this podcast. U guys are both so smart and insightful but the mentality you have for the game is excellent I legit learnt so much this was great
Awesome video! I'm not the biggest Neace fan but to give him a bit of credit I've heard him point out a few times that he's working on tilt and admits to speaking out of line when he's frustrated. MOST of his vod reviews are a bit more relaxed than this haha.
Excellent breakdown. As someone who used to watch a lot of Neace, making the transition away from his content to the BBC/Saltu/MLA mindset has transformed the game for me. This process is what all of us *need* to constantly improve at, whether we're weekend warriors or high profile content creators.
I enjoy this podcast. It lets me know I’m on the right path. As these are some of the questions I started asking myself recently as I progress in my game.
I know Curtis plays support as the secondary role,is there any chance to get some content on support? Content is just too good, really wished for other roles to be in the MLA
This was an amazing episode! I wish the title didn't imply you were collabing with neace, so that I wouldn't have to caveat "ignore the clickbait title" when sharing it with people lol
You know the only coaches I ever actually liked when I played League were Coach Curtis and Nathan Mott, and only now I’m finding out that they have a podcast lmao. Quality.
During the "ONE JUICY TIDBIT" section I was playing loldodgegame and hit a new record, 6.2k! Hell yeah! And... I gotta replay the section because I was zoning out regarding the podcast lollll
@@keegan.hayeslofi It's easier to review one vod from your own home than fly to a foreign country and grind solo queue for a month. Wow, very insightful. Never thought about that.
@@Evan-fh2zg The question is could they do it? Feels a bit condescending in a few places, if they can't, but overall it's very tame take on the individual that is Neace.
I usually listen to these podcasts on Spotify, but this is the first time actually watching one and I gotta say DAYUM Coach Curtis looking like a sexy hunk of a man Calvin Klein model material over here
GAAAAHH I was hoping this would be a Neace collab. That would make a great video. still great as always I love how respectful and non-toxic you guys approach this.
I love listening to high elo players that actually have a mind for the game. I dont hate neace but as soon as i watched one of his streams and saw him VOD review i knew he wasnt what he claimed he was. Also in his gameplay I think he suffers from the same problems that most people who perma smurf suffer from. Good early game-Terrible mid game-Terrible ability to min max. Neace makes probally 5-10 accounts per season hard smurfs to diamond, coin flips his matches then posts if he hits masters, People who do this will never get past their hump b.c you have to drop your ego and actually VOD review and see what your problems are. (Most of them are going to be in the mid game) Neace and alot of these players will be so used to being so ahead early that they make terrible decisions mid game but wont get punished b.c of their lead generated during the early game. But that dosent work when you get to Low diamond to masters depending on your region. If anyone reads this paragraph on nonsense and want to get better review every match and only watch your plays and what you could have done better no one else.(unless its how you played around your teammates)
The tips for reviewing are really great. Consider that players might disable pings, too. As jungler you have small windows to use chat functions. "Shaco gank bot care!!", and then add the pings, another solution. I am reviewing a lot of games lately, my own, for friends, and to learn form randoms in my friends list. The chat is a vital part of the game and chat isn't reviewable so keep in mind when you review maybe ask your clients if they use that funcion and if it might have led to a certain situation.
I find it funny how bronze - platinum is considered cute low level fun times but diamond is the absolute pits. lol like, it almost seems as if someone who is plat iv would get more respect than someone who is diamond iv
ive noticed this ages ago, neace might think hes reviewing his games, but hes actually not doing that at all, hes just looking at the replay to stroke his own ego and think even stronger now that what he did was correct, when it was clearly not, else he wouldve won.
The podcast solidified my foundation of my league mindset. I'm dogshit I say I'm dogshit because I am dogshit, if I ever have a ego I will stop reviewing and improving.
I had a guy in my games who was Master tier four seasons ago. Master. Let that sink in. He's stuck in Gold now with over 1k games and the biggest ego I've ever seen in my life.
Why does he play? Money. It's much more profitable to assure people that they are right then to explain that they are wrong. Look at me I'm """challenger""" and look how much I struggle in D4. Clearly it's my teammates fault. If I have this problem you have this problem. That will be 350$ please. Can't say I'm not envious. I wish I could be payed to be toxic instead of good.
You're making the same reviewing mistake that they were just talking about in this episode. Neace makes more money as a Coach than he does as a player. Neace as a coach actually gives a lot of good advice for low elo players. Neace as a player, ignores the advice he gives and makes the same mistakes that he yells at his clients for. But the bigger picture here, you're attributing his financial success to being some kind of charlatan and then concluding that the reason you don't make money like him is because you're not willing to be a charlatan. In reality, the reason Neace makes so much money is because of his years of consistent effort in delivering daily league content. Neace as a content creator is an entirely different animal than Neace the coach and Neace the player. He's relentless in putting out daily videos and he very likely applied exactly the same review process they spoke about in this episode to his ability to make money via streaming, videos, and coaching. Yes, a big part of the personality he puts out there is toxic, but just being toxic doesn't make you money. You have to package it in a way that people find entertaining, and are willing to jump on board your brand with. Say one thing about Neace, he is excellent at building a brand.
@@clovermite His entire branding was about being a multi season multi role NA challenger player which is provably not true. His entire branding that he used to sell his coaching is based on a lie.
@@Yasukeh While the challenger aspect is certainly a large part of his branding, it's not the entirety of it. He brands himself on being the coach that shows his sessions for free on youtube on a daily basis. He also brands himself as a guy who is constantly trying to evolve (experimenting with different formats, getting coaching himself from experts on specific champions, experimenting with different builds and champions on a second channel , creating a network of coaches to perform bootcamps with). Even if he has lied about being challenger, the rest of his brand remains true.
@@clovermite to this day, its stated on the official website for his brand. He's literally still lying. Besides the fact that paying 300+ to a plat player, or any person rather, for something you could learn from a 1 hour YT video is just baffling to me.
Great job guys amazing advice. It was inspiring what you said Curtis about mindset being a lense that can distort your perception or help you achieve goals if used positively and I think probably be your biggest asset
Something you guys could have touched on imo is that, if what you’re mentioning about Neace’s gameplay simply doesn’t resonate at all to you as a listener, its time for a drastic change. The situation will not get better if you happen to climb; “bad” teammates are at every level. If you can’t accept that part of the league contract, it really is time to quit and find a single player game, like chess or even riot’s new fighting game. I played adc all last year and finally realized that it was impossible for me to take blame for other’s mistakes and plays playing that kind of role and champion. I chose to swap roles to see if mid is easier in terms of focusing on myself, but if that experiment fails I’m going to have to quit and that’s fine. LoL doesn’t have to be for you, even if you enjoy the game on paper. Figuring out the signs of when to quit might be an interesting podcast topic.
@@ich3730 My point is that if you have this kind of mentality solo games won't be fun aswell and youll encounter the same type of roadblocks at least that's been my experience. I think it lies deeper than the type of game you chose
How do I become more aware of mistakes in my reviews? I feel when I watch someone else's game, it's so much easier to see obvious things but when I watch my own games I can't separate the experience and perception I have of the game played from the review. I think I do a lot of obvious things wrong I would spot if someone else pointed them out but I can't just because I was the one playing.
This video was so good and helped me to find more joy in the game. I'm like Neace and attended his bootcamps but I have been questioning why he blames his teammates so much, doesn't feel like a good mindset. After this video I reviewed one of my own loses that I felt bad about and realised I did so many mistakes. Sometimes I have to take a break as well because I feel so bad for losing. After my review I didn't feel bad about losing that game anymore, I realised why I feel bad for losing is because I blame my teammates and then it feels bad because it's out of my control. Taking responsibility for my mistakes made me feel better about the game and continue on with a positive growth mindset.
im new to this podcast i listen to like 5-6 of them but by far this is the best one especially when he talked about the importance of solo queue cuz for me for many seasons i hit gold 4 for the skin and i go look for a team i just hate solo queue it's just not fun for me but after listening to this podcast it made me aware of the importance of solo queue so i started pushing and im in emerald 4 with 240 games after 1y of quitting league
I like to keep things realistic when losing games in a 2 step process. Step one: Always point out where I messed up the play or what I could have done differently or what i did that contributed to the mistake/loss. Step two: pad my ego. "Woof my team were dogs".
Im a neace fan' like his content/direct coaching style- but this was a measured and unbiased response- great work lads! Every player can benefit from a disciplined and committed approach to review qnd neaxe would be tye first to tell you that i think. The irony os that hes even talked about the danger of the "i deserve challenget mindset"- sp 8ts interestong to see that type of thinking manifest itself in his efforts to cope. There is no shame in admitting you have to keep learning to stay at the top of the pack' its an E-sport right?? Being 8n the top percentage of players on the planet SHOULD be difficult to maintain. Also his racing analogy was such a brutal cope and might be thr obpy th8ng ue said that maoes me wonder if maybe im even overating his critical thinking skills. Anything outside of a full reversal/apology about the flaw in his comparison would be troubling. Brain farts happen but if he cant admit that that was anything short of a mind cramp id be worried. Tiered league structures exist in literalpy every legit sport in the world- league embracing that format adds legitimacy- it doesnt detract from it...
At around 20-21 minutes, you guys talk about how theres problem-solutions, that neace didn't think a certain way after not being able to break boxes, so that he "didn't think about warding the bush". Why would I run yellow trinket and waste a ward if I KNOW and many people should KNOW that shaco has a fast level 3 gank + naut can set it up well? Like if you ping it and neace had pretty darn good timing with that ping, its literatly an alert on map with sound. If shaco would have stepped on that ward, chances are they probably wouldnt have paid attention cause they didnt respect the pings? Then if shaco is very experienced as shaco, He might actually expect a ward there, invis over that section and be able to gank unexpectedly regardless? Just my 2 cents. Its more an alternate decision to alert your bot rather than being an actual solution.
What a clickbait title. I thought you were actually giving Neace free coaching where he realized his mistakes and toxicity, then made an apology video, maybe gave some refunds/re-coaching to suckers who paid for it.
Anyone paying for coaching is a sucker… what’s the difference between neace and these guys. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the insight and the videos. But neither of them is giving something that is valuable enough to be charging 50$ an hour for, let alone what they actually charge. And I would say the value is determined by the customer, and therefore my opinion doesn’t matter, but then you would have to agree that neace is worth 350$ as a coach since people are willing to pay that and therefor he isn’t scamming them anymore than another coach might be scamming. I’ve watched neace and his practical advice is just as valuable as these guy’s theoretical advice. I also think that a few bad games don’t prove anything about skill. No player is as bad as their worst game or as good as their best game, they all fall in the middle and claiming anything else is ego. These guys, for all their talk of mindset and ego are just as prone to it as neace from what I’ve seen, they just don’t default to openly toxic behavior but they are in a controlled setting with a script to follow.
Just play kayle and you build a never surrender attitude. She gives you either late game potential to melt enemy or split push. She forces you to learn to respect the enemy jungle and every opponents champion. Because you are so weak early. You really have to be aware of what's happening around your lane and what you are capable of as you get stronger. If you can play kayle and learn how to get over never having priority in your lane for 6 to 11 lvls you will learn how to eventually get it by limit testing seeing you actually can do more early just hard to figure it out at first.
Are you playing LOL for identity? Ego? If so, then the losses challenge your self worth, which is going to be unreasonably emotional. If you're playing for love of the game, everything is a point of curiosity, even the negative outcomes are curious and interesting, rather than soul wounding. I think this is what is wrong with most people's mentals.
tiny random detail, but I believe Neace could have actually even lived at 51:42 had he turned and faced Shaco to avoid the backstab damage. would have been closer at least haha.
I watched 10-20 of Neace's of videos a few years ago. I learned some things, but I stopped watching because of the toxicity and especially after him commenting about LS, Caedrel and others. Inspired by your video I just started reviewing my matches from yesterday. Funny... As I watched my teammates I realized how many mistakes they have done. I felt bad for limit-testing with Nautilus (failed some Qs, went too far from my teammates), but now I feel no shame at all. This happens sometimes. Nevertheless, I'll learn from those mistakes and next time MAYBE we can still win in a similar situation.
This video is interesting cuz i think you guys are calling out Neace's mindset more so than his actual play. Im new to your channel but love Neace's content, however I get turned off by his toxicity. That being said, saying he's stuck in a hole is a little hyperbolic, he's been trying out new lanes and new champions and switching things up a lot. He's not hard stuck Diamond 4 with Tryndamere top. he's playing jungle, he's playing mid, he's trying out different champions. Yes he has the long term goal of reaching challenger, but he has yet to establish a main role or champ pool or actually attempt the "try hard" push. saying he's "stuck diamond" is ignoring the data at this point because this isn't the data of someone that is try hard climbing. All that being said, I think the majority of your criticisms are completely fair, he does fall into that toxic "woe is me" mindset that gets players stuck in cycles and not self reflecting on their own agency and mistakes far too often.
22:00 Why exactly would a Nami+Caitlyn "have" to shove? Especially against a Nautilus even without that Shaco? Caitlyn also has full control of the botlane waves because her Nami can't ever accidentally deal damage to minions. Even if you get shoved in it's way better than dying for free and/or burning your summs.
Don’t know if you watched the response video from neace but he basically claimed that you two aren’t qualified to criticize his gameplay since your server “isn’t real” and its just who sits in que for longer” I’d love to hear your takes on his response
If you watch some of his other reviews of his own gamplays. This is one of the ones that that he was frustrated. Most of his own reviews he will stated he messed up.
It depends, though. First, "all the time" could be an overstatement. Second, your laning skills could be above the average level in your elo, with other things keeping you in that elo (for example, your mid game could be worse than the average). Third, you might actually be screwing up your lane by blowing up resources to get an early kill and then being entirely unable to play the game pre-6 which is the most vulnerable phase for Ahri, this making you lose games without even realizing, for example being forced to give pressure in a 2v2 matchup where you should be getting pressure.
In other words we focus on neace because he has a massive following and y’all are using his community in order to grow your own brand and basically be a succubus or trying quickly increase your own popularity/channel by using another influencer’s platform they created themselves. Giving into creating unnecessary drama using hindsight to critique someone’s skill in every single aspect of them playing the game or reviewing someone. And y’all are obviously haters because you never give him props for making decent plays it’s nothing but negativity is created.
You can only reduce the chances of your team fucking up with the level 3 Shaco gank. Breaking the boxes prevents the super fast gank entirely so that would be great. Pinging the lanes might make them respect it, but the chances are low. Warding the tri bush is your best shot in making your team react. If they somehow still die to a shaco gank after all this you honestly couldn't do anything about it and might just have to write it of as IQ gap.
47:10 - Kinda like outcome bias, where you judge the quality of a play by its outcome. A bad play that luckily results into a kill? You won't see that as a bad play. Or the other way around, what was a good play turned sour? You may judge it negatively then, even if it was the right play.
How did he even get D4 in Korea? This is Gold level play and game knowledge in Europe. Btw minor critque. Episodes would be at least 10% shorter and thus easier to watch if Curtis didn't repeat himself so much. For example he mentioned the difference between limit testing and climbing about 5 times consecutively.
I left a pretty long comment on the other vid, but this one seems far more reasonable a take on Neace's gameplay. As of 53 minute mark, I don't think I'd be that upset if I were Neace. Then again, I don't know which video he was actually responding to. And ftr, the title on this video is a little presumptive as well. It bears repeating that we're analyzing some split-second decisions and offhand remarks from Neace here, and yes, they're a good jumping off point to apply to our own review processes as players, but let's not suddenly assume Neace is a "bad player" or something - these are habits that all of us have and could stand to work on. I'm not a fan of holding people accountable for the actions of others - Neace regularly calls out delusional ego problems in his clients, including misconceptions about matchmaking, it's not his responsibility to engage with every toxic person in his comment section. Yes there's a conflict with his own attitude in this stream, but let's not forget the good things he does. 1:06:50 The comment by Nathan on his own experience stuck in Diamond after Challenger is absolutely what you should have lead this video off with - this shifts the tone completely from "We're high-rank coaches criticizing another coach from high up above" to "I've been there man here's how you escape." No question in my mind.
I’m sorry but I can’t give him any benefit of the doubt because of who he treats his clients. The issue with Neace is how he tells his clients it isn’t their teammates fault but has been doing nothing but blaming his teammates. Neace narrative is pay him to “get good” and it has nothing to do with the teammates you get.
Actually i like neace and i guess he could be more nice sometimes? I was watching his stream RN and a guy asked a tip for making league content and he literally flame on the guy and tells the guy to buy a content coaching (???)
Also for some reason, he refuses to play Champs that he's actually good at. IE: Tryndamere, Nocturne, and Garen. He's bouncing around between random picks that he hasn't played that much. He's breaking his number one rule: pick simple champions and focus on macro to climb. Dude wants to prove that he can play mechanically difficult champs for some reason.
I don’t even play league, but what I like about this episode is almost all the advice applicable to many endeavors in life. Themes such as deep and critical thinking and the importance of being humble and open so to not jump to conclusion. These all help in inner and outer relationship with yourself and others and make one more apt to succeeding in life and not falling into the larger trap of being a victim.
These coaches are the goats. What makes them great is they are STUDENTS of the game. NO ego always learning.
Absolute banger this one. Definitely an S tier episode. The practicality of showing how high elo content creators can really influence the community is something that needs to be understood and you guys are being the ones to push a good message
another banger comment from nickpricekappa2146
@@ConSolo29 thank you Connor soloqueue
I've really been focusing on improving the skill of reviewing, so much so that now after I review my three block, I then review the review to see where I went wrong within the review.
Awesome to hear, Mr. Calm. Keep on practicing reviewing your games!
Get rid of that toxic narrative, that'll be 350
lmao
Is that what Neace charges?
imagine being mad someone else paid the price when they werent forced.
@@billybobbobson3797 Imagine thinking that malpractice in a craft doesn't damage the reputation, credibility and overall image of other craftsmen in the said craft.
@@BobFudgee 350 for private, offscreen lessons and vod review
this podcast episode is a good sum up for why i love the MLA.
(im not a jungler so cant speak for Nathan, sorry Nathan)
i just love and respect Curtis as a coach so fucking much, appreciate his presence in the community a ton.
I only can wish for him (and Nathan too ofcourse) to have a bigger voice as time passes by with more and more impact on the community.
Will be pushing the positive messages about soloQ myself to do my part, how to improve, how to enjoy and how to translate all off the time spend on a game into your real life to make it beneficial.
The podcast I've been waiting for, just in time before the new rank season
Neace's ego is anchoring him in D4 because he rarely admits a mistake, blames teammates non stop and grossly underestimates the opposition
I actually saw him blame the game after he tried to review his replay after resetting his red buff for the 12th game straight on Kindred. His chat told him what he was doing wrong and he just wouldn't listen, claimed the game was broken lmfao.
so is curtis gonna coach neace to challenger? he put @neace
Thank you so much for this video! As someone who's learned a good 60-80% of his league knowledge from Neace, I really want to cheer him on. In spite of his brash, and sometimes toxic, personality, Neace the coach often delivers really good advice.
It's very frustrating then to see Neace the player throw out all the advice he just gave to his clients and make exactly the same mistakes that he yells at them for. Then he pulls a Trump like ego maneuver to shield himself from criticism by attacking those who critique him and come up with ways to dismiss what they say rather than parsing the feedback for any value.
But commenting on that as someone who hasn't even played a single ranked game yet is rather ineffective. I don't have any clout. But to have you both, with proven track records, pointing it out, you might be able to effect some change in him. I hope he takes your advice to heart because I really would love to see him enjoying his games and achieving his challenger goal.
" As someone who's learned a good 60-80% of his league knowledge from Neace"
PEPEGA man:<
you can turn back there still is a light on the end of this tunnel
Good comment by you. Also it shows that he never was a challenger coach because his decision making wasnt. Its painful because his brand goes to shit in real time but also its feeding us hope that no more people will get fraud by neace 350$ coaching thats value sho-uld be 35$ but actually value is NEGATIVE.
He makes his clients develop bad habbits its sort of going to doctor for 350$ he does sth worth 35$ but later youi will beed 3500$ to help what he did to you.
I think that neace shold be taken to court by all his clients all together and sue him for this.
ALSO I think its time more and more content creators show real face of neace (D4 hard stuck) not multi role challenger.
He's a much better coach than player. You don't have to be a great player to be a great coach in any game, sport, etc.
@@giovannipaolo5650 What are the bad habits you believe he builds in his students?
@@MrDavidKord 100% agreed
Hey guys, randomly found out about the podcast, listened to a few episodes, now I'm starting from episode 1! If I had any doubt, hearing Curtis say he hates the word cringe (remember 2013 when people still used that word? Those were the days!) sold me.
I started watching NEACE a year ago, I hope he sees your video because you guys made mostly really good points without really shitting on him. I do enjoy his stuff too (minus the video in question), so I'm curious to see how he reacts. You guys were quite respectful as always.
Time to stop everything I'm doing to hear the best podcast that we can find
This was so helpful! I’ve been struggling with reviews (there’s such little info available about how to review.)
This unlocked some ideas on how to approach my reviews.
Thanks!
Had a League breakthrough today thanks to you guys. I didnt realize how relevant this was to my games until I watched this...
i just discovered this podcast.
U guys are both so smart and insightful but the mentality you have for the game is excellent
I legit learnt so much this was great
Welcome to the BBC!
@@BrokenByConcept ayo the what now
@@wor2xfs250 broken by concept, BBC 💀
this is gonna be so good I ended my block for this
Podcast listener here. Great job, the audio podcast was very good and I could understand without the video.
Amazing I was just taking a break in between my LOL grind when this was uploaded.
Awesome video! I'm not the biggest Neace fan but to give him a bit of credit I've heard him point out a few times that he's working on tilt and admits to speaking out of line when he's frustrated. MOST of his vod reviews are a bit more relaxed than this haha.
Excellent breakdown. As someone who used to watch a lot of Neace, making the transition away from his content to the BBC/Saltu/MLA mindset has transformed the game for me. This process is what all of us *need* to constantly improve at, whether we're weekend warriors or high profile content creators.
Always a pleasure to watch. Been around since curtis's How To series.
awesome episode guys - really important message. reminds me that I have a lot of room for improvement im my reviews
I enjoy this podcast. It lets me know I’m on the right path. As these are some of the questions I started asking myself recently as I progress in my game.
I know Curtis plays support as the secondary role,is there any chance to get some content on support? Content is just too good, really wished for other roles to be in the MLA
In the BBC they always recommend Coach Cupcake for support content. He has a similar vision to that of Curtis and Nathan.
This was an amazing episode! I wish the title didn't imply you were collabing with neace, so that I wouldn't have to caveat "ignore the clickbait title" when sharing it with people lol
Mondays are my favorite days because of you guys.
I loved hearing curtis' "idk jungle" perspective before Nathan's "jungle coach" perspective. I thought that was really interesting feedback.
You know the only coaches I ever actually liked when I played League were Coach Curtis and Nathan Mott, and only now I’m finding out that they have a podcast lmao. Quality.
Uh oh, Monday starting off with a CERTIFIED banger
During the "ONE JUICY TIDBIT" section I was playing loldodgegame and hit a new record, 6.2k! Hell yeah!
And... I gotta replay the section because I was zoning out regarding the podcast lollll
Congrats on the high score!
Did Curtis and Nathan ever hit up Korea as they mentioned they would a year or two ago? Would be interested in seeing both their climbs.
Easier to comment on a other players gameplay
@@keegan.hayeslofi It's easier to review one vod from your own home than fly to a foreign country and grind solo queue for a month. Wow, very insightful. Never thought about that.
@@Evan-fh2zg The question is could they do it?
Feels a bit condescending in a few places, if they can't, but overall it's very tame take on the individual that is Neace.
I usually listen to these podcasts on Spotify, but this is the first time actually watching one and I gotta say DAYUM Coach Curtis looking like a sexy hunk of a man Calvin Klein model material over here
GAAAAHH I was hoping this would be a Neace collab. That would make a great video.
still great as always I love how respectful and non-toxic you guys approach this.
They can't afford his time, that is why it wasn't a colab.
I love listening to high elo players that actually have a mind for the game. I dont hate neace but as soon as i watched one of his streams and saw him VOD review i knew he wasnt what he claimed he was. Also in his gameplay I think he suffers from the same problems that most people who perma smurf suffer from. Good early game-Terrible mid game-Terrible ability to min max. Neace makes probally 5-10 accounts per season hard smurfs to diamond, coin flips his matches then posts if he hits masters, People who do this will never get past their hump b.c you have to drop your ego and actually VOD review and see what your problems are. (Most of them are going to be in the mid game) Neace and alot of these players will be so used to being so ahead early that they make terrible decisions mid game but wont get punished b.c of their lead generated during the early game. But that dosent work when you get to Low diamond to masters depending on your region. If anyone reads this paragraph on nonsense and want to get better review every match and only watch your plays and what you could have done better no one else.(unless its how you played around your teammates)
55:02 to be honest, after that seeing that yone chase shaco I understand the tilt
The tips for reviewing are really great. Consider that players might disable pings, too. As jungler you have small windows to use chat functions. "Shaco gank bot care!!", and then add the pings, another solution. I am reviewing a lot of games lately, my own, for friends, and to learn form randoms in my friends list. The chat is a vital part of the game and chat isn't reviewable so keep in mind when you review maybe ask your clients if they use that funcion and if it might have led to a certain situation.
I find it funny how bronze - platinum is considered cute low level fun times but diamond is the absolute pits.
lol like, it almost seems as if someone who is plat iv would get more respect than someone who is diamond iv
ive noticed this ages ago, neace might think hes reviewing his games, but hes actually not doing that at all, hes just looking at the replay to stroke his own ego and think even stronger now that what he did was correct, when it was clearly not, else he wouldve won.
When are you bringing back the merch? I NEED a "Get Into the Details" shirt
The podcast solidified my foundation of my league mindset. I'm dogshit I say I'm dogshit because I am dogshit, if I ever have a ego I will stop reviewing and improving.
I had a guy in my games who was Master tier four seasons ago. Master. Let that sink in. He's stuck in Gold now with over 1k games and the biggest ego I've ever seen in my life.
Why does he play? Money. It's much more profitable to assure people that they are right then to explain that they are wrong. Look at me I'm """challenger""" and look how much I struggle in D4. Clearly it's my teammates fault. If I have this problem you have this problem. That will be 350$ please. Can't say I'm not envious. I wish I could be payed to be toxic instead of good.
You're making the same reviewing mistake that they were just talking about in this episode. Neace makes more money as a Coach than he does as a player. Neace as a coach actually gives a lot of good advice for low elo players. Neace as a player, ignores the advice he gives and makes the same mistakes that he yells at his clients for.
But the bigger picture here, you're attributing his financial success to being some kind of charlatan and then concluding that the reason you don't make money like him is because you're not willing to be a charlatan. In reality, the reason Neace makes so much money is because of his years of consistent effort in delivering daily league content.
Neace as a content creator is an entirely different animal than Neace the coach and Neace the player. He's relentless in putting out daily videos and he very likely applied exactly the same review process they spoke about in this episode to his ability to make money via streaming, videos, and coaching. Yes, a big part of the personality he puts out there is toxic, but just being toxic doesn't make you money.
You have to package it in a way that people find entertaining, and are willing to jump on board your brand with. Say one thing about Neace, he is excellent at building a brand.
@@clovermite His entire branding was about being a multi season multi role NA challenger player which is provably not true. His entire branding that he used to sell his coaching is based on a lie.
@@Yasukeh While the challenger aspect is certainly a large part of his branding, it's not the entirety of it. He brands himself on being the coach that shows his sessions for free on youtube on a daily basis. He also brands himself as a guy who is constantly trying to evolve (experimenting with different formats, getting coaching himself from experts on specific champions, experimenting with different builds and champions on a second channel , creating a network of coaches to perform bootcamps with).
Even if he has lied about being challenger, the rest of his brand remains true.
@@clovermite to this day, its stated on the official website for his brand. He's literally still lying. Besides the fact that paying 300+ to a plat player, or any person rather, for something you could learn from a 1 hour YT video is just baffling to me.
Bro Curtis is jacked
Great job guys amazing advice. It was inspiring what you said Curtis about mindset being a lense that can distort your perception or help you achieve goals if used positively and I think probably be your biggest asset
As a plat player, seeing that Korean D4 makes some of the mistakes that I do makes me realise how far i can climb if I just improve my mistakes
I love this podcast every MONDAY!
Curtis you look really good! Arms, thighs and the haircut. A whole snack. (Respectfully) 😌
Ironic that he calls his teammates apes while playing wukong
Something you guys could have touched on imo is that, if what you’re mentioning about Neace’s gameplay simply doesn’t resonate at all to you as a listener, its time for a drastic change. The situation will not get better if you happen to climb; “bad” teammates are at every level. If you can’t accept that part of the league contract, it really is time to quit and find a single player game, like chess or even riot’s new fighting game. I played adc all last year and finally realized that it was impossible for me to take blame for other’s mistakes and plays playing that kind of role and champion. I chose to swap roles to see if mid is easier in terms of focusing on myself, but if that experiment fails I’m going to have to quit and that’s fine. LoL doesn’t have to be for you, even if you enjoy the game on paper. Figuring out the signs of when to quit might be an interesting podcast topic.
I don't necessarily agree with this tbh
@@sentinelia2302 whats your alternative? Continue playing a game you are dogwater at AND thats not fun anymore? OP's take is very reasonable
@@ich3730 My point is that if you have this kind of mentality solo games won't be fun aswell and youll encounter the same type of roadblocks at least that's been my experience. I think it lies deeper than the type of game you chose
Spoiler alert. It's not. You have to worry about jungler
1:28:41 who is the toplaner they're saying? i'm not making it out
I was literally just listening to an episode on Spotify but this takes priority, gotta be here early if I can help it!
Just happened to stumble across this video. I appreciate you guys staying neutral :) Great commentary with the problem solving mind set
How do I become more aware of mistakes in my reviews? I feel when I watch someone else's game, it's so much easier to see obvious things but when I watch my own games I can't separate the experience and perception I have of the game played from the review. I think I do a lot of obvious things wrong I would spot if someone else pointed them out but I can't just because I was the one playing.
Keep up the good work boys. Love this podcast!
This video was so good and helped me to find more joy in the game. I'm like Neace and attended his bootcamps but I have been questioning why he blames his teammates so much, doesn't feel like a good mindset. After this video I reviewed one of my own loses that I felt bad about and realised I did so many mistakes. Sometimes I have to take a break as well because I feel so bad for losing. After my review I didn't feel bad about losing that game anymore, I realised why I feel bad for losing is because I blame my teammates and then it feels bad because it's out of my control. Taking responsibility for my mistakes made me feel better about the game and continue on with a positive growth mindset.
im new to this podcast i listen to like 5-6 of them but by far this is the best one especially when he talked about the importance of solo queue cuz for me for many seasons i hit gold 4 for the skin and i go look for a team i just hate solo queue it's just not fun for me but after listening to this podcast it made me aware of the importance of solo queue so i started pushing and im in emerald 4 with 240 games after 1y of quitting league
awesome progress well played bro!
I like to keep things realistic when losing games in a 2 step process. Step one: Always point out where I messed up the play or what I could have done differently or what i did that contributed to the mistake/loss.
Step two: pad my ego. "Woof my team were dogs".
Im a neace fan' like his content/direct coaching style- but this was a measured and unbiased response- great work lads! Every player can benefit from a disciplined and committed approach to review qnd neaxe would be tye first to tell you that i think. The irony os that hes even talked about the danger of the "i deserve challenget mindset"- sp 8ts interestong to see that type of thinking manifest itself in his efforts to cope. There is no shame in admitting you have to keep learning to stay at the top of the pack' its an E-sport right?? Being 8n the top percentage of players on the planet SHOULD be difficult to maintain.
Also his racing analogy was such a brutal cope and might be thr obpy th8ng ue said that maoes me wonder if maybe im even overating his critical thinking skills. Anything outside of a full reversal/apology about the flaw in his comparison would be troubling. Brain farts happen but if he cant admit that that was anything short of a mind cramp id be worried. Tiered league structures exist in literalpy every legit sport in the world- league embracing that format adds legitimacy- it doesnt detract from it...
Nathan looks more jacked. That boi been hitting the rift 😳
At around 20-21 minutes, you guys talk about how theres problem-solutions, that neace didn't think a certain way after not being able to break boxes, so that he "didn't think about warding the bush".
Why would I run yellow trinket and waste a ward if I KNOW and many people should KNOW that shaco has a fast level 3 gank + naut can set it up well? Like if you ping it and neace had pretty darn good timing with that ping, its literatly an alert on map with sound. If shaco would have stepped on that ward, chances are they probably wouldnt have paid attention cause they didnt respect the pings? Then if shaco is very experienced as shaco, He might actually expect a ward there, invis over that section and be able to gank unexpectedly regardless? Just my 2 cents.
Its more an alternate decision to alert your bot rather than being an actual solution.
What a clickbait title. I thought you were actually giving Neace free coaching where he realized his mistakes and toxicity, then made an apology video, maybe gave some refunds/re-coaching to suckers who paid for it.
Anyone paying for coaching is a sucker… what’s the difference between neace and these guys. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the insight and the videos. But neither of them is giving something that is valuable enough to be charging 50$ an hour for, let alone what they actually charge. And I would say the value is determined by the customer, and therefore my opinion doesn’t matter, but then you would have to agree that neace is worth 350$ as a coach since people are willing to pay that and therefor he isn’t scamming them anymore than another coach might be scamming. I’ve watched neace and his practical advice is just as valuable as these guy’s theoretical advice.
I also think that a few bad games don’t prove anything about skill. No player is as bad as their worst game or as good as their best game, they all fall in the middle and claiming anything else is ego. These guys, for all their talk of mindset and ego are just as prone to it as neace from what I’ve seen, they just don’t default to openly toxic behavior but they are in a controlled setting with a script to follow.
This was a fantastic commentary
Just play kayle and you build a never surrender attitude. She gives you either late game potential to melt enemy or split push. She forces you to learn to respect the enemy jungle and every opponents champion. Because you are so weak early. You really have to be aware of what's happening around your lane and what you are capable of as you get stronger. If you can play kayle and learn how to get over never having priority in your lane for 6 to 11 lvls you will learn how to eventually get it by limit testing seeing you actually can do more early just hard to figure it out at first.
This is so true. I played Kayle for a few months and I was SUCH a better mid laner afterwards, even after transitioning to other champs
She does teach you to min max and pay more attention but the overly passive play style might also not be healthy.
This is an interesting episode. Thanks guys!
Who’s the original creator?
Are you playing LOL for identity? Ego? If so, then the losses challenge your self worth, which is going to be unreasonably emotional.
If you're playing for love of the game, everything is a point of curiosity, even the negative outcomes are curious and interesting, rather than soul wounding.
I think this is what is wrong with most people's mentals.
Neace should read Extreme ownership from Jocko Willink
wut is that?
@@d4s0n282 A book from retired navy seal
Does OCE play differently from NA or EU?
Who's the guy on the right?
tiny random detail, but I believe Neace could have actually even lived at 51:42 had he turned and faced Shaco to avoid the backstab damage. would have been closer at least haha.
Get into the details, that will be 350
Curtis looks huge :O Look at that bicep
1:28:43 who are they talking about? Best toplaner
I watched 10-20 of Neace's of videos a few years ago. I learned some things, but I stopped watching because of the toxicity and especially after him commenting about LS, Caedrel and others.
Inspired by your video I just started reviewing my matches from yesterday.
Funny... As I watched my teammates I realized how many mistakes they have done. I felt bad for limit-testing with Nautilus (failed some Qs, went too far from my teammates), but now I feel no shame at all. This happens sometimes.
Nevertheless, I'll learn from those mistakes and next time MAYBE we can still win in a similar situation.
1:12:00 this is me in every competitive game ever
This video is interesting cuz i think you guys are calling out Neace's mindset more so than his actual play. Im new to your channel but love Neace's content, however I get turned off by his toxicity. That being said, saying he's stuck in a hole is a little hyperbolic, he's been trying out new lanes and new champions and switching things up a lot. He's not hard stuck Diamond 4 with Tryndamere top. he's playing jungle, he's playing mid, he's trying out different champions. Yes he has the long term goal of reaching challenger, but he has yet to establish a main role or champ pool or actually attempt the "try hard" push. saying he's "stuck diamond" is ignoring the data at this point because this isn't the data of someone that is try hard climbing. All that being said, I think the majority of your criticisms are completely fair, he does fall into that toxic "woe is me" mindset that gets players stuck in cycles and not self reflecting on their own agency and mistakes far too often.
what rank are you in korea ?
22:00 Why exactly would a Nami+Caitlyn "have" to shove? Especially against a Nautilus even without that Shaco? Caitlyn also has full control of the botlane waves because her Nami can't ever accidentally deal damage to minions. Even if you get shoved in it's way better than dying for free and/or burning your summs.
You pick an enchanter support to win lane. You want the minion advantage for better trading and to harass under tower when it crashes.
@@littlebigphil Against other supports sure. But that's a Nautilus. You wouldn't walk up against a Nautilus if you're sober
Don’t know if you watched the response video from neace but he basically claimed that you two aren’t qualified to criticize his gameplay since your server “isn’t real” and its just who sits in que for longer” I’d love to hear your takes on his response
Neace has talked coach Curtis up as a great coach many times over the years. Nice payback!
If you watch some of his other reviews of his own gamplays. This is one of the ones that that he was frustrated. Most of his own reviews he will stated he messed up.
That was amazing episode.
Pretty sure his only problem is champ mastery. He is learning/trying many new champs in preseason the rank is not objective in this case, right?
"ahri is a weak laner"
I mained her and i would get solokills and first blood all the time. She is incredibly straight forward.
It depends, though. First, "all the time" could be an overstatement. Second, your laning skills could be above the average level in your elo, with other things keeping you in that elo (for example, your mid game could be worse than the average). Third, you might actually be screwing up your lane by blowing up resources to get an early kill and then being entirely unable to play the game pre-6 which is the most vulnerable phase for Ahri, this making you lose games without even realizing, for example being forced to give pressure in a 2v2 matchup where you should be getting pressure.
In other words we focus on neace because he has a massive following and y’all are using his community in order to grow your own brand and basically be a succubus or trying quickly increase your own popularity/channel by using another influencer’s platform they created themselves. Giving into creating unnecessary drama using hindsight to critique someone’s skill in every single aspect of them playing the game or reviewing someone. And y’all are obviously haters because you never give him props for making decent plays it’s nothing but negativity is created.
You can only reduce the chances of your team fucking up with the level 3 Shaco gank.
Breaking the boxes prevents the super fast gank entirely so that would be great.
Pinging the lanes might make them respect it, but the chances are low.
Warding the tri bush is your best shot in making your team react.
If they somehow still die to a shaco gank after all this you honestly couldn't do anything about it and might just have to write it of as IQ gap.
47:10 - Kinda like outcome bias, where you judge the quality of a play by its outcome. A bad play that luckily results into a kill? You won't see that as a bad play. Or the other way around, what was a good play turned sour? You may judge it negatively then, even if it was the right play.
How did he even get D4 in Korea? This is Gold level play and game knowledge in Europe.
Btw minor critque. Episodes would be at least 10% shorter and thus easier to watch if Curtis didn't repeat himself so much.
For example he mentioned the difference between limit testing and climbing about 5 times consecutively.
Curtis is looking jacked
in other words, you cant just look at actual cost, you have to look at
opportunity cost.
Look at em sitback gaming
I left a pretty long comment on the other vid, but this one seems far more reasonable a take on Neace's gameplay. As of 53 minute mark, I don't think I'd be that upset if I were Neace. Then again, I don't know which video he was actually responding to. And ftr, the title on this video is a little presumptive as well.
It bears repeating that we're analyzing some split-second decisions and offhand remarks from Neace here, and yes, they're a good jumping off point to apply to our own review processes as players, but let's not suddenly assume Neace is a "bad player" or something - these are habits that all of us have and could stand to work on.
I'm not a fan of holding people accountable for the actions of others - Neace regularly calls out delusional ego problems in his clients, including misconceptions about matchmaking, it's not his responsibility to engage with every toxic person in his comment section. Yes there's a conflict with his own attitude in this stream, but let's not forget the good things he does.
1:06:50 The comment by Nathan on his own experience stuck in Diamond after Challenger is absolutely what you should have lead this video off with - this shifts the tone completely from "We're high-rank coaches criticizing another coach from high up above" to "I've been there man here's how you escape." No question in my mind.
is coach curtis challenger?
Yes and has been since s4
I’m sorry but I can’t give him any benefit of the doubt because of who he treats his clients. The issue with Neace is how he tells his clients it isn’t their teammates fault but has been doing nothing but blaming his teammates. Neace narrative is pay him to “get good” and it has nothing to do with the teammates you get.
Actually i like neace and i guess he could be more nice sometimes?
I was watching his stream RN and a guy asked a tip for making league content and he literally flame on the guy and tells the guy to buy a content coaching (???)
Great video! I posted my first highlight stream today and im going to use similar review tactics on my video
Also for some reason, he refuses to play Champs that he's actually good at. IE: Tryndamere, Nocturne, and Garen. He's bouncing around between random picks that he hasn't played that much. He's breaking his number one rule: pick simple champions and focus on macro to climb. Dude wants to prove that he can play mechanically difficult champs for some reason.
Curtis thighs are in watermelon crushing territory now
Wait a minute..Coach Curtis is swole
Wait, do I have to pay you $350 for this VOD review? Sorry, I'm having a bit of Post-Traumatic-Neace disorder...
really good video 👹👍
Perfect I have 8 hours of a job I can ignore for 2 xd