Fair warning: I will hold space for some people wrestling with these questions but if you are flagrantly or aggressively engaged in microaggressions without any sign of being willing to accept other worldviews it will earn you a block. You get three attempts to break through and that's as much energy as I have to give.
@@highballer2512 Thanks for posting this. I prefer to listen to black people about race instead of rich white women or fire spinning youtube content creators. Here's a good conversation with Adolph Reed on Useful Idiots.
It feels most appropriate that you didn't speak too much on the people negatively impacted by implicit bias or covert/unconscious racism, since we can't speak for them. Speaking on your experience as someone seeking allyship and speaking to others within that sphere of understanding and influence seems the wiser choice. Nice video, Drex
...yes. There’s asking questions, reflecting, doing more research...even just saying: “I need some time to process this.” There’s a whole spectrum of behaviors between arguing and agreeing.
Great vid and amazing discussion. Well framed. A+ You hit very solid points on peoples defensive mechanisms when this topic is even brought up. I wish more people would let their walls down and be open to respecting perspectives, generally speaking. Just because you cant see that there is a problem doesnt mean its not there. And just by asking someone to acknowledge that it is there doesnt mean im here to take/force anything upon you. Just promote awareness so if it does arise your able to identify it and act instead of being oblivious or ignorant of its existence as it happens more often for some.
I appreciate your video a lot, I have felt a lot that this topic has been ignored in the flow community by "colourblindness" etc; thank you so much for putting out this content - seeing the comments really shows how much importance the topic really has :) I'm glad you provoked this discussion - again, very valuable and necessary
Drex, I fully support and back you on this. All very good points. Thanks for everything. Im just learning and your videos have been amazing. keep doing what you do.
Thank you for speaking on this topic. I have felt really disappointed by the amount of fragility in all of the white-dominated counterculture communities that I am a part of that had previously brought me such a sense of belonging, play, joy, and creativity. Thank you for making the conversation happen here and I hope that folks listen with an open mind
Very good video! I totally agree , thank you for standing for this necessary cause and for the very good arguments, the whole topic his illustrated with calm, logic and hearth!
Your points have a lot of nuance to them to the point I keep wishing you'd expand on them, even though I know you can't make videos too long. It's clear you've put a lot of real thought and research into this. Thank you! Your tips were all spot on, and some of the best ones I've seen compiled. Your analogy of toe stepping was excellent, really getting to one of the major problems. I just wanted to acknowledge and encourage you in your own journey and your efforts to educate. You've used your platform for this, even at personal discomfort and risk of alienating people. It's extremely laudable and evidence of genuine moral fortitude. Thank you for your insight.
I really appreciate that feedback! I have definitely gotten some pushback privately and publicly for talking about these matters but I think I do more harm than good by being silent. I would also like to make videos like this one more regularly and I'd love to hear which of these points you'd like to hear more on! That kind of feedback is really helpful for me in figuring out future directions that I can take this sort of content.
The comparison I like to make is: You don't get physically stronger by being comfortable. You don't grow without discomfort. Have you heard the analogy of "a friend tells you there's spinach in your teeth because they care about you. It's awkward, but now you get to get the spinach out of your teeth."?
And the comments on this video are exactly why I already know I DO NOT want to get involved with the greater flow community as a Plus Size Black femme. I will practice fans by myself. thanks for the Confirmation.
This vídeo is so good just simple talk, for things and perspectives that are worth talking. Thanks dude. I'm proud of you in this vídeo dude! A real talk.
@@Zero_XZ17 lol. Ancient Egypt has hieroglyphs of trees. Not sure why you feel the need to virtue signal so hard but dude this is the internet. You don't seem to be replying from a place of strength
Drex, I am so grateful that you're willing to go after sensitive topics that need to be addressed. Thanks for having the courage to use your platform to create open conversation for positive change
(At the time of writing this) I noticed the anonymous like/dislike ratio is pretty even but there's only postive comments from verifiable accounts ..... If you had the courage to dislike this ... why not share your thoughts attached to your name as well if you truly believe they aren't misguided?
So I have two really interesting data points on this currently. The first is that the UA-cam Studio mobile app does indeed show a small handful of comments from people critical of these ideas and my presentation of them that range from using DiAngelo as a source to outright skepticism of the concept of race in general but near as I can tell those comments are not appearing on the public-facing side of this video (or at least they aren't for me). I don't know if UA-cam is automatically blocking comments that contain specific keywords or phrases that have been identified as offensive, that these are people I've already blocked from other interactions, or that there's some programming quirk between point A and point B.
There also seems to be a disconnect in the site’s processing- it seems “Like” can be clicked without logging in, but to click “Dislike” you have to choose between “Report” and “Cancel.” There are comments here that should probably show a LOT of “Dislikes” that aren’t registering.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. I've noticed a lot of racism in the community, and I'm stoked to see it getting addressed. Nice to know you're not just a poi teacher, but also a comrade.
Kudos to you on the video, and I appreciate the effort. So many of the comments here are exactly what this video describes. Racism, microaggressions, end poor response by white people are definitely in the flow arts community. Keep up the good work, and don't let any of the comments get you down. Negative comments? Proof of the problem. Comments about your channel and being more inclusive or seeking out POC? Food for thought on action.
Just to clarify, if i say my life has been hard, and i am white, i am expressing/engaging in white fragility? Even if objectively speaking life has been difficukt for me?
Good question and the short answer is no...but if that's your response when someone points out a microaggression to you, that is a form of White Fragility. Again, think about if you step on someone's toe. What does your life being hard have to do with whether you stepped on their toe or not?
@@DrexFactor fair point, it has nothing to do with it. I just don't agree with the idea that it is fragile to get emotional/defensive over someone telling you off, regardless of topic. Is it not human nature to be defensive? Or are we conditioned to be oversensitive? In the decade plus of being in this community, i cant personally say ive ever even run into these situations. Thanks for responding so quickly
@@djgrishkin1 I can definitely relate to feeling defensive when you're called out, but it's often a sign of deep insecurity. Therapists, psychologists, and professional communicators all agree - rather than get defensive, you should listen and try to understand the other person. Getting defensive never, and I mean NEVER, gets you the results you want. You want the person you've hurt to think you're a good guy? You want them to acknowledge your feelings? That won't happen if you don't acknowledge their feelings first. Like Drex said, when you hurt somebody, you apologize. You can't convince them they're not hurt; feelings just don't work like that.
Excuse my ignorant ass, but I really haven't witnessed any racial issues in the flow art community. Is this a prevalent thing?? I personally haven't seen it on flow art groups on social media. Also, wtf is a micro aggression? is that like being passive aggressive? or?
It is normal that you can't see it unless you train yourself to become more aware of it. I haven't seen much racism in any of the alternative scenes I am part of because I only knew how racist openly displayed violence look like but not the more subtle structural stuff. Since I read more about what the racism experience is like for People of Color I see it everywhere
A micro aggression is an unintentional and unconscious action that contributes to a racist culture. I can only give you an example from my country: here in Germany, People of Color are often asked where they come from. If they answer they are born in Berlin they will be asked again: where their parents/grandparents/... come from. White people usually don't intend to harm, they are just being curious. But this is unintended hurtful behaviour There is a lot of People of Color with German citizenship that live here since generations and are socialized as fully German, not speaking the language of their ancestors, etc. there are even more white Germans with migration backround. A huge percentage of white Germans actually have migration backround like from Poland or france etc. But this does not happen to white people with migrant parents. If white people are asked where they are from and they answer they are born in Berlin, it would be considered totally inappropriate to ask for intimate details of family history, if you just met someone. and you'd small talk about something else. As someone with a white migration backround you will be treated just like everyone else. It happens only to People of Color This is considered a micro aggression because what it tells to People of Color each and every time it happens is 1. that they will always be considered different and not like other Germans no matter how long their family has been here and no matter how German they feel inside. 2. Also it is a matter of respect not to push someone to talk about intimate and potentially painful family history when you are just talking the first few sentences. Just as it is insensitive to ask a wheel chair user why they use a wheel chair in the first few sentences you talk to them. And it shows a decreased respect for them. 3. that this white person most likely isn't very emotionally close with someone of Color, who would have told them how shit that feels. but the white person behaves very unawarely and curious about that "exotic strange person" who is actually just german and not exotic at all. So it also shows how segregated communities actually still are There is a lot more layers to a simple question like where your parents are from than you might be aware of as a white person. I hope this example works to give you an idea and transfer it to other situations
@@anjaneuber7381 Interesting! Thanks for the info! My only issue is the fact that if its truly unintentional and unconscious, anyone can say anything is a micro aggression if they perceive it to be a micro aggression. It is a slippery slope that can be taken too far. We can ALL agree that racism and racists are the scum of the earth, but how can one person say its a micro aggression when another person doesn't. If that makes sense. Its all up to that persons perspective.
@@TryptOut208 yes that is exactly the problem! that people can experience things as discriminatory which actually aren't. But usually the way to deal with it is to just accept that person's reality and their hurt. Because usually it is the normality of the majority who defines and it is just to propable that a criticized person woild always say that what they said is not discriminative. So if the criticized person decides people who receive unconscious bias will never find justice. And to be honest, it doesn't make too much of a difference anyway if it is discrimination or not. Fact is what you said hurt someone unintentionally. Does it matter who is right? this discussion is more about how willing we generally are to deal with criticism and with not being the good guy, but how to react softly to the hurt of others, and apologize sincerely even if we had no intent to hurt.. this really isn't about being a bad person if you didn't know in advance that what you say is hurtful. We can't know every little single issue all these diverse groups, or which even single people might be facing. We'll just have to find ways to react calmly when someone experiences something we say as a discriminatory thing. No matter what is right. Because all they are really saying is, be careful when you say things like that, you might hurt someone and contribute to an oppressive system. What they are not saying is what a bad person and fascist you are. It can easily escalate into that if people react fragile to criticism but that's not usually how it starts. I think it is a way nicer way to deal with it to just say "thanks for telling me, I will reflect about it" than to get angry and start a discussion about who is right. Which is generally good advice for any conflict, not just discrimination issues.
@@TryptOut208 also about your nazi example be aware of this difference: Discrimination is not about criticising a person's opinion or behaviour but their identity. If I say "nazis are scum of the earth" that is not discrimination. because people chose to be nazis or not. They chose this ideology and chose their behaviour. If I say something nasty about Black people that is discrimination. Because people don't chose to be Black. It's how they are born
One of the best videos about White Fragility I've seen. Well done! How about retitling this video "Drex on White Fragility"? For the life of me, other than the example of prop makers and POC representation (something only 1% of your audience might have any experience with), I couldn't find anything in this talk specifically related to "in the Flow Arts." I kept waiting for some example of microaggression that you have actually seen in flow art situations (other than online trolls).
This is a great video :) Thank you for creating space for discussion around this. Disclaimer: I am new to the community, so this may already exist and I may have just not found it yet. If so, I apologize for the superfluous comment :) I would love to see a video in the future (or maybe even a virtual panel event) featuring non-white and non-cis-male flow artists talking more about the flow community. It would be great to see and hear what those artists would like to say around this topic and you have both an amazing following and platform as well as a real talent at moderating and facilitation.
Your intentions is good but the points in this video are just bad. Let's take the example that there are fewer POC sponsored by prop makers. If a white person says that it actually is proportional to the number of POC, how has that person done anything wrong by trying to analyze the situation and see the reason behind it? Why are we shaming people and accusing them of "white fragility" just for disagreeing or wanting to argue anything that has to do with race. Disregarding someones argument and labeling it "white fragility" just because of their skin color is racist in itself. It makes very hard to have a honest discussion about race and racism if white people are afraid of talking about it because they can be accused of having white fragility for simply disagreeing with an argument. In the beginning when you explain what white fragility is you say that when someone is confronted with conversation of privilege, racism and discrimination they display behaviour such as *argumentation*. This shows how the concept of "white fragility" isn't meant to actually further the discussion about racism, just to shame and scare white people. Drex you said "Negro" at 10:38 and that means that you are super racist. If you disagree with this or want to explain that it wasn't racist, then that means that you have white fragility. Do you see the problem here? Again, I think your intentions are good and I appreciate that you try to make the flow arts community better. I just think that the concept of "white fragility" does more harm than good as it scares away people that are on the edge of joining the discussion.
"If a white person says that it actually is proportional to the number of POC, how has that person done anything wrong by trying to analyze the situation and see the reason behind it?" Well first up by trying to analyze it themselves without including the input of any People of Color in it. Simply doing that in itself is a statement that "I believe that my experience is so important that I don't need anyone else's to form a conclusion about this." See how that places yourself in the center of that question rather than people who might have a very different perspective? "It makes very hard to have a honest discussion about race and racism if white people are afraid of talking about it because they can be accused of having white fragility for simply disagreeing with an argument." I imagine you'll find this difficult to believe, but I honestly feel vastly more comfortable talking about race than I did before I started acknowledging my own Whiteness and the privilege that comes with it. What's more, I'm able to have open and honest conversations with my Friends of Color and they feel comfortable talking about their own experiences and pointing out ways that I can improve. "Drex you said "Negro" at 10:38 and that means that you are super racist." If a Person of Color calls me out and says that my reciting the title of this movie makes them uncomfortable I'm happy to take that feedback, apologize, and avoid repeating that movie title in the future. Thus far none have and this video is on several platforms at this point. "I just think that the concept of "white fragility" does more harm than good as it scares away people that are on the edge of joining the discussion." Can you explain how?
@@DrexFactor 1. The value of statistics are not based on the person who cites them. There is no personal experience involved in calculating the number of POC sponsored/total POC in the community. 2. I'm glad that it has helped you become more comfortable talking about race. But don't you think that it can be a bit alienating to be accused of "white fragility" for people who are first getting into discussing race or those who are just not well educated on the topic? From my personal experience of arguing for veganism and animal ethics for many year, the majority of people don't respond well to direct accusation, especially if they don't know that they are doing something wrong. It is easier to persuade people by explaining the problem in general instead of going after them personally. 3. The point was to show that what defines "white fragility" is so wide that everyone in the world could be included. I will give a new hypothetical to demonstrate this clearer. "Drex you live in a house, that is very racist." If you would argue that this statement is false, that action would fall under "white fragility". 4. It discourages the discussion about race because it labels the act of argumenting as something bad. It is easy to mischaracterize, giving more easy ammunition for the alt-right to use in order to sway people away, just like they have been doing with feminism for years. It is fairly rhetorically aggressive, possibly alienating a lot people who are on the edge of joining the discussion. At the moment this video has 34 likes and 33 dislikes. I don't think that those 33 are racist or evil in any way, they probably misinterpreted the video or felt attacked by it. I might have come across as too aggressive towards this topic but I do think that it is possible to discuss "white fragility" as a general phenomenon if the people discussing are well experienced in the race debate. I just think that it never should be used as a argument to persuade people or "win" debates because of the many flaws I mentioned earlier.
If this made you uncomfortable enough to say drex needed to label it differently, congratulations! You're the demographic this video is trying to help.
@@Zero_XZ17 I criticized the video because I want to accomplish the same goal as Drex, just in a different way. Your comment just proved my main point, that people call "white fragility" to dismiss valid arguments and avoid discussion. But I guess it's easier to mock people and morally grand stand instead of furthering the discussion :)
See previous comment. This made you uncomfortable. You don't like the wording. You'd prefer something perhaps more to the point, softer even. Again, you are exactly the demographic this is trying to reach. You want to help? Take a step back and actually absorb the information presented here before firing of a response that's half cocked at best.
Might be exactly an example of what you're referring to, but did you basically imply that no white person has ever had a rough life? I entirely admit to not knowing everything, but I find that over sensitivity is as dangerous as the lack there of I'm a firm believer that balance is necessary no matter what the topic at hand is
Also in my first hand experience, claiming to be colorblind doesn't imply that you ignore the cultural background of a given race but more so that you don't assume peoples cultural habits based on their outward appearance. It's a race related way of saying don't judge a book by its cover
I asked before I got to that point but right in the begining he brought up denying being privileged is part of the problem, but idk assuming every white person is well off or hasn't been a victim of racism themselves is just as hazardous. And mentioning it is considered harmful. It's best not to feed into racism and let it die rather than feeding into it
@@melvinrobinson7789 It's not that white folks don't have a tough life. It's that the color of their skin isn't one of the things making their life harder.
@@an__gun uncommon knowledge everyone has been discriminated against at least once in their life. I went to school in areas where whites were the minority and I can tell you first hand doesn't matter what color you are if you're the minority in the area some people will take advantage
It's a shame people have to pay for the mistakes of an old world. Questions tho? Is thinking about everybody different from thinking about anyone group? Should ethnic groups, races and the discriminated ect. only accept thing purely on their terms? I see that as a power play and the world could do with less of it, if there's no conversation between everyone what's the point? Some white people want to talk about the subject but are vastly misunderstood because they used the wrong word or presented themself in a way that overs perceived to be a certain way( words decided by a group of people not the population as a large so can be very biased some times end many people have never come across these words or have no connection to the implication it's being used for by the group ). They understand that there is an issue and actively try their best not to involve themselves in that behaviour but are well aware of the historic events that led to the situation we find ourselves in today. But if they involve themself in the conversation there view is disregarded and there very well may be people that could help solve the issue but when things are put in a way that only one group can voice there opinions your doing what caused the problem in a sense to begin with You mention divides like peoples cultures are separate but they overlap in various ways we are human not a different species that appeared in different parts of the world stealing culture from each over, all our founding cultures shared the same origins. Only when money land resources are brought into the equation do we turn on each over and how are these conflictions made? Through division, war, racism, sexism, sizeism, religion, gender, sex you name it. Someone had an agenda to complete and getting on with your neighbours leave you more inclined to say '' well no they have done nothing wrong why would i fight them '' And with that thousand of the years of manipulation occur to turn us all against each over, i think there's a lot to be said of forgiveness for your fellow person as they mean not to cause you harm but do so because they think you will do so to the first under the influence of there leaders. My thought on the whole situation is that we should be fighting against our freedoms and rights being stripped away and a species, as the human race rather than worrying about our personal identifications. That being said if something you say hurts someone like you said then apologise we all say stuff that can be taken the wrong way and if it was due to your conditioning and if the person doesn't understand why then explain it or they don't learn but if the person explains there reasoning as to why they thought it wasn't or it genuinely was not that intent then let them speak as well don't shove it down there throat or then there's no dialogue and nothing can be learnt and above all put out the respect you want for yourself better yet extend that to the people you want to reach out to and you're going to get a better response, do you have to agree? . . . well no but that doesn't mean you dislike them any less and it could plant the seed to a change in their behaviour? Am well aware that some of the stuff I have said will reflect what you have said in the video but this is my point its a matter of perception and people tend to see the worst in things especially on the internent, I am a white person so this is biased, I don't know what it's like to be black or Hispanic or Asian but I do know what it's like just to be discriminated for just being myself and i think that's the one thing we should be able to relate to on a whole or at least it is for me anyway.
"It's a shame people have to pay for the mistakes of an old world. " I mean...People of Color certainly are. There are Black Americans still alive who only got the ability to vote in their lifetimes. This isn't ancient history by any means. "Is thinking about everybody different from thinking about anyone group?" I'm honestly not sure what's being asked here, can you elaborate? "Should ethnic groups, races and the discriminated ect. only accept thing purely on their terms? I see that as a power play and the world could do with less of it, if there's no conversation between everyone what's the point?" This...is literally what White people have done for the past 500 years. There's most definitely a conversation going on right now...there's been a lot of it on many of the FB groups for the past year. If you want to join that conversation then you're definitely more than welcome! "Some white people want to talk about the subject but are vastly misunderstood because they used the wrong word or presented themself in a way that overs perceived to be a certain way( words decided by a group of people not the population as a large so can be very biased some times end many people have never come across these words or have no connection to the implication it's being used for by the group ). They understand that there is an issue and actively try their best not to involve themselves in that behaviour but are well aware of the historic events that led to the situation we find ourselves in today. But if they involve themself in the conversation there view is disregarded and there very well may be people that could help solve the issue but when things are put in a way that only one group can voice there opinions your doing what caused the problem in a sense to begin with" I have not witnessed this phenomenon. What I have witnessed is White People getting called out for microaggressions and responding defensively that they have "plenty of Black friends", "well I didn't mean it", or "why is everything about race?" rather than simply saying "I'm sorry and I'll try not to do it again." If people are well-meaning then they should be well-meaning. If they simply don't want to engage in being humble in an authentic fashion then that's another matter entirely. "You mention divides like peoples cultures are separate but they overlap in various ways we are human not a different species that appeared in different parts of the world stealing culture from each over, all our founding cultures shared the same origins. Only when money land resources are brought into the equation do we turn on each over and how are these conflictions made? " So...stealing all those resources was okay and the fact that it benefitted some more than others is okay, then? "My thought on the whole situation is that we should be fighting against our freedoms and rights being stripped away and a species, as the human race rather than worrying about our personal identifications. In the United States in the past four years, Trans people have been stripped of the right to go to the bathroom of their gender, Women's reproductive rights have been curbed to the point where they cannot practically get abortions in a half dozen states, and Georgia has effectively re-suppressed the voting rights of its Black citizens. In the past four years I have lost no rights whatsoever. I think my Trans, Black, and Female friends get to go to the front of the line in fighting for freedoms and rights. "That being said if something you say hurts someone like you said then apologise we all say stuff that can be taken the wrong way and if it was due to your conditioning and if the person doesn't understand why then explain it or they don't learn but if the person explains there reasoning as to why they thought it wasn't or it genuinely was not that intent then let them speak as well don't shove it down there throat or then there's no dialogue and nothing can be learnt and above all put out the respect you want for yourself better yet extend that to the people you want to reach out to and you're going to get a better response, do you have to agree?" I don't. An apology that comes with conditions isn't actually an apology and intention is not the same thing as impact. Again, think of the metaphor of stepping on someone's toe: do you really need to explain your reasoning for why you did it or can you just say sorry and you both move on? "I am a white person so this is biased, I don't know what it's like to be black or Hispanic or Asian but I do know what it's like just to be discriminated for just being myself and i think that's the one thing we should be able to relate to on a whole or at least it is for me anyway." Well I am glad to hear that this connected and I hope your meditations lead you to new understandings!
Not to mention historic rates of voter suppression and gerrymandering that have just now been inflicted in our lifetimes that are actively ramping up policies that are aimed at taking the voice and agency of POC from voting.
@@DrexFactor I did attempt a reply to this all on two separate occations and both times my text vanished and there was alot of text writen in the reply as well a the quotes from the two original comments, am not writing it out a 3rd time there was some point that you made that I had some information of which you replyed with but instead but instead am gonna thank you for replying and not being hot-headed.
100% agreed. It's amazing how hard many White Flow Artists will work to avoid learning about experiences outside their own. Also super necessary, though.
I am not writing this to disagree or agree with any of the content of this video. In argumentation you have two elements: Premises and Logic Premises being the things you belief to be true at the start Logic being the way you draw conclusions from them Premise opposing view: representation by percentage is adequate and they think that that percentage is met (according to what is said in the vid) Premise Drex: current representation isnt adequate ->no further explanation what adequate would be in his opinion its not even clear if youd disagree with precentage based representation or not. so you cant even tell if you disagree because you think percentage based representation isnt adequate or because you think the percentage isnt met or for some different reason you also havent mentioned that is why this discussion is going no where. if your premises are different the conclusions will be too. in oder to further the discussion youd have to address the premises. if you dont you wont convince people of your opinion. if you dont you are take only participating in a shouting contest and hope to be the loudest. if you state what adequate would be in your opinion and why and try to convince people why they should too then youd get more people on your side. people wont accept your conclusions if they disagree with the premises (unless you can trick them with rhetoric) no matter the topic. Hope this was helpful. to be clear no matter which side of the discussion one is on everyone makes these mistakes me included. the nature of a healthy discussion is to try and tell each other where we went wrong exactly.
You have a way with words. It takes courage for you to confirm you are racist. Well done. Can you do one on cultural appropriation and making money from that?
Real talk: that man terrifies me. There was always something vaguely uncomfortable about his brand of his humor: a life coach who engaged in a form of eviscerating condescension on the very people he was marketing himself to...but watching him go full-tilt conspiracy nutter as we entered quarantine kind of laid bare just how cruel and manipulative his videos really were. Especially given how uncomfortably close his own irrational tirades are to those he’s historically marked. Quarantine has led to a lot of stones getting turned and people in counter cultures discovering just how thin the veneer of authority and superiority many men in the community wore. In retrospect his reveal as a paranoid narcissist turned out to be a harbinger of things to come. Good riddance.
I would like to try to talk about these issues but i dont understand american micro agressions term and i would probably step in some land mines in these issues as i would probably not agree 100% with all those ideas. Anyway, beeing far away from america, i see how good it is to live in there, if these are some major problems over there.
And that's fine! Nobody's expecting you to get it perfect. All anybody is looking for is for you to listen to the input of others and apologize when you do something that hurts them. That's all. It's okay to make mistakes--I've made many!
Love when I just go to flow art events edm exc. and the only thing i care about is moving my body n spinning poi i dont believe white fragility or white privilege its just sad seeing these politics n race shaming on someone color of their skin so i disagree with you
I am with you here. I have no interest in dragging these kinds of issues into flow arts, whatsoever. The last thing I had hoped for was politics being involved in our art, and I can see it starting to tear apart flow clubs, chase off newcomers, and alienate oldtimers who either don't agree, or don't want to have a lecture about their "white fragility" while they are just trying get some dancing in and have fun with their friends. This is all so disappointing.
They should not be so colour picky. animal or Veg has colour difference a rose is red white and pink I don't see end roses fighting. Color should not be a issue in my mind. Personally this childish behavior needs to be drilled out of humanity because it's a real ugly topic that offends so many people. The actual fact is we have brains we should act like it and we should not offend people, I say we are all humans as we are intelligent we should act it like it and stop arguing about things that offends others and drill this behavior out of the ones that wish to harm all
If color goes unseen, then systemic racism goes unchecked. Yes, the color of someone's skin should not be an issue, judgement, or impact them as a person. However, we live in a country (US)/world that has major issues because of systemic racism, and if we don't bring up the issues that people of color face - such as disproportionately higher rates of incarceration, higher sentences and charges for the same crimes, systemic neglect in the healthcare system, police brutality, lower rates of employment callbacks based on skin color/non-european sounding names, representation in media, acceptance to colleges, chances of getting homes and large purchases at a fair price, representation in politics...... Not being racist isn't enough in a racist society. We need to be actively anti-racist.
@@casterboarderfiend yes i couldn't agree more people we need to push out the racist people and make the held accountable for there actions. end derogatory comments toward anyone of difference i have autism and adhd and a fue other problems iv had derogatory name put my way because I'm different i dont want me to be the subject of this discussion just as a example. its not just race it not just colour people are targeting iver in the street or killing of people who wish to target people they see as lower in the food chain. i don't think enough coverage is give to people with genuine mental health problems that make there life super challenging and the rasist and derogatory comments and actions of other should be a prison able offence point blank the damage it douse to lifes is sad
"Have you ever denied to have privilege, that is having your life been difficult despite being white" - This is for me is a super silly thing to say. You can have a hard life no matter your skin color. Having alcoholic parents, being bullied all your life or being sexually assulted, stings just the same no matter what the color of your skin is. It creates insecurities and trauma. I agree we should take care of each other and make each other feel welcome. But treating anyone differently (both better and worse) due to skin color is silly to me. I treat people according to how they treat me. I don't care if you're green or purple, speak fluent or 5th language, are tall or tiny. You are a human being deserving basic respect until proven otherwise. Demanding special treatment because you are *insert color* skinned is victimising yourself and enforcing to the "us and them" culture that you dislike in the first place. This fragility and demanding special treatment is a negative trend in my eyes. I will take a distance to anyone claiming these needs, and they should also keep a distance to me. Then they can be shielded and i won't unknowingly insult someone for saying the name of a color out loud or "offensive" language. I am as much in my right to be me as you are to be you. No more, no less.
So are you saying that it is impossible that you have unconscious behaviour patterns that are painful for other people? (If you think that, let a psychology student tell you that you are definitely wrong) Are you saying that you don't have to take responsibility for unconscious behaviour? Are you saying that if you learn something new you are not yourself any more? This is not about treating anyone better than someone else. This is about changing behaviour patterns that are painful and exclusive to People of Color and not even aware to us as white people. We are not treating them better if we change but just give them the chance to feel as safe as us Just let me tell you that you are wrong about the experience of the poor white and Black person being the same. The white person has not been bullied at school because of their race. Is not controlled by police because of their race. Is not rejected by the landlord because of their race. They might have many problems in their life but none of them is about race. And the other problems can get much worse if you got racial stress on top of that. Life is even more unsafe for a homeless Person of Color than for a white one, with violent racists beating them up because of their skin color etc And even if you were right and you actually managed to treat all people exactly the same way, without any influence by unconscious bias and stereotypes, then you would still have to at least acknowledge, that there are many people who don't do that and that this impacts People of Color
@@anjaneuber7381 No, if you re-read my comment you will see that is not something i claim. I deliberately try to treat all human respectfully. I believe we all make mistakes but we should also try to work with our personal issues and try to be a little resilient. I think over awareness for microaggresions and this increasong fragility is counter productive to trying to improve mental health in the population. It's also a very poor way of reducing racism to turn it towards another ethnicity. If we manage tp stop pointing out eachothers differences and acknowlegde each other as equal human beings no matter how you look or feel, then racism will decrease.
@@kasperk9891 I am confused by the words you use. Fragility is used here to describe reactions of white people who are criticized for unconsciously saying or doing racist things. It is not used in this context to describe the sensitive way in which People of Color react to things white people do. But you seem to turn it around. This video is all about how to calmly react to being criticized for unconscious racist behaviour. In this context it is not called fragile to criticize someone. But to not actually listen to criticism and ignore it or burst out when criticized. From what I have seen most drama around discrimination discussions starts with white people's fragility. Not with People of Color criticising something. I have seen white people just react by saying "thanks for letting me know, I will try to keep it in mind in future" and there was no emotional outbursts whatsoever then. In some circles saying something like "you said a discriminatory thing" is not any worse than saying "you got something in your teeth". It is a neutral comment to which people just reply "ok" and then there is no drama That is the way one should deal with criticism not just when it is about discrimination but generally. If someone is hurt about something you do it really doesn't matter who is right or wrong. What matters is that you will try to adapt to the needs of another person and do your best. Nobody is turning racism around and nobody thinks that you are a bad person. That is just how many people interpret it. And that is exactly what white fragility is about: to derail from racism by interpreting all kinds of other things
@@anjaneuber7381 I'm not turning it around. i'm using it for the other meaning it has. I'm doing my best to express myself in my 3rd language. Anyways behaviour like putting words and claims in my mouth and and deciding what words mean seems like a debate i don't want to participate in. As i said in my original comment. For the sake of peace i will distance myself from your needs of guilt tripping strangers on the internet. I was telling people it's possible to be kind to each other and show basic respect, but i guessed you really proved me wrong ;-)
@@kasperk9891 I am trying to explain to you the sentence you criticized because I have the impression you didn't understand the video. Which is why I am pointing out how you are using words differently than the video. It is difficult to discuss anything if you don't stick with the definition of words which are used in this specific context. If you are guilt tripping because of what I am writing you might be experiencing exactly what that video is about: fragility. It is not my intention to make you guilt trip. And neither is it anyone's intention do guilt trip you who brings up a matter of discrimination. None of this is about guilt. It is about ways to deal with criticism. Because none of us is "the good guy" who doesn't do mistakes. And if you say you are, I just don't believe you. I haven't met anyone yet. And that doesn't make us bad people. But to just ignore it and pretend we are all happy hippies who don't have to ever look at the shadows won't solve any of the problems we face
Usa, "American" spinners about, knowing, or talking about flow arts or flow artists reality in *all of América*... Most don't even thing we exist, and we have same level or are equal to yall but with many social and económic distresses that you just don't face. And don't even talk about help, or making net. And enjoy each other. Same with Asia, and África. The flow.community it's consumed in it's self in just some.regional self indulgence. It's just maaaaybe the shine and few groups that sell over here that you may hear. But again and pointing to another structural situation, most are gonna be white, male, "atractive", and heterosexual looking groups, or performers. Women are most likely be held to that standard plus the skin showing as a must. When discussing this in flow groups many people answer on those fragility patterns. It's just unverable...
Need to hear more concrete solutions. Not responding with white fragility isn’t going to solve the issue until darker skinned people are equally represented. And you should lead by example. Are you going to make your likes and follows exactly 50-50% equal? How many black Facebook friends do you have compared to white?
I'd like it better when poi was the focus. Now everybody has a totalitarian opinion made with a fraction of information. It's ridiculous. Cheap generalizations based on the skin color is a racist bs that no one should buy into. If there is injustice, you help them by lifting those oppressed, not by pointing fingers to whoever looks similar to those who oppress. It brings a false sense of achievement that does nothing but perpetuating the same topic you wish to fight against. Unfollowing this dude. Anyways... His tricks became boring like 3 years ago. 💩🙈
Agreed. This is all so lame and disingenuous and its ruining poi, along with everything else it creeps into. like anyone wants to hear a lecture about race when they come to learn about poi.
@@DrexFactor I have no empathy for weenies. Pull yourself up and don't be weak. Our society needs strong men not fragile men. I'm ok with not having empathy.
Fair warning: I will hold space for some people wrestling with these questions but if you are flagrantly or aggressively engaged in microaggressions without any sign of being willing to accept other worldviews it will earn you a block. You get three attempts to break through and that's as much energy as I have to give.
UA-cam Search JP Spears:
How to Be a Woke White Person
UA-cam Search Laytonicle:
White Fragility: What an Actual Black Person Thinks
@@highballer2512 Thanks for posting this. I prefer to listen to black people about race instead of rich white women or fire spinning youtube content creators. Here's a good conversation with Adolph Reed on Useful Idiots.
"Process your feelings around conflict rather than expecting others to avoid it in order to make YOU feel more comfortable." 👈💯
It feels most appropriate that you didn't speak too much on the people negatively impacted by implicit bias or covert/unconscious racism, since we can't speak for them. Speaking on your experience as someone seeking allyship and speaking to others within that sphere of understanding and influence seems the wiser choice. Nice video, Drex
I'm a black girl starting poi living in Korea! This was an amazing video and I appreciate this so much. You got a sub!
It means a lot to hear that-thank you!
"Behaviors such as argumentation scilence or leaving the conversation." Are there any other options other than agree?
...yes. There’s asking questions, reflecting, doing more research...even just saying: “I need some time to process this.” There’s a whole spectrum of behaviors between arguing and agreeing.
@@DrexFactor it seems to imply that if you don't agree with the author than you are displaying white fragility by default
Like if I do more research and still don't agree am I displaying white fragility?
@@Tristan-ni8qb frankly? Probably, yes.
So white fragility is anyone who disagrees with the author. Amazing
Great vid and amazing discussion. Well framed. A+
You hit very solid points on peoples defensive mechanisms when this topic is even brought up. I wish more people would let their walls down and be open to respecting perspectives, generally speaking.
Just because you cant see that there is a problem doesnt mean its not there. And just by asking someone to acknowledge that it is there doesnt mean im here to take/force anything upon you. Just promote awareness so if it does arise your able to identify it and act instead of being oblivious or ignorant of its existence as it happens more often for some.
I appreciate your video a lot, I have felt a lot that this topic has been ignored in the flow community by "colourblindness" etc; thank you so much for putting out this content - seeing the comments really shows how much importance the topic really has :)
I'm glad you provoked this discussion - again, very valuable and necessary
Drex, I fully support and back you on this. All very good points. Thanks for everything. Im just learning and your videos have been amazing. keep doing what you do.
Thank you so much! 🙂
@@DrexFactor you're welcome. Thank you for being everything you are.
And doing everything you do. :)
UA-cam Search Laytonicle:
White Fragility: What an Actual Black Person Thinks
Great job. This can be tough to explain and talk about, but you've put together a really good conversation tool here.
Thank you! 😊
Can you please make a luminancer tutorial? It's a little confusing.
Sorry if it's out of topic.
Thank you for speaking on this topic. I have felt really disappointed by the amount of fragility in all of the white-dominated counterculture communities that I am a part of that had previously brought me such a sense of belonging, play, joy, and creativity. Thank you for making the conversation happen here and I hope that folks listen with an open mind
Very good video! I totally agree , thank you for standing for this necessary cause and for the very good arguments, the whole topic his illustrated with calm, logic and hearth!
Your points have a lot of nuance to them to the point I keep wishing you'd expand on them, even though I know you can't make videos too long. It's clear you've put a lot of real thought and research into this. Thank you! Your tips were all spot on, and some of the best ones I've seen compiled. Your analogy of toe stepping was excellent, really getting to one of the major problems.
I just wanted to acknowledge and encourage you in your own journey and your efforts to educate. You've used your platform for this, even at personal discomfort and risk of alienating people. It's extremely laudable and evidence of genuine moral fortitude.
Thank you for your insight.
I really appreciate that feedback! I have definitely gotten some pushback privately and publicly for talking about these matters but I think I do more harm than good by being silent. I would also like to make videos like this one more regularly and I'd love to hear which of these points you'd like to hear more on! That kind of feedback is really helpful for me in figuring out future directions that I can take this sort of content.
Thank you for sharing this. 🙏
Thank you so very much for not shying away from the tough but very necessary conversation ❤️❤️❤️
this was so well presented. thank you for speaking up
The comparison I like to make is:
You don't get physically stronger by being comfortable.
You don't grow without discomfort.
Have you heard the analogy of "a friend tells you there's spinach in your teeth because they care about you. It's awkward, but now you get to get the spinach out of your teeth."?
I love this analogy! Thank you for sharing it.
And the comments on this video are exactly why I already know I DO NOT want to get involved with the greater flow community as a Plus Size Black femme. I will practice fans by myself. thanks for the Confirmation.
This vídeo is so good just simple talk, for things and perspectives that are worth talking. Thanks dude.
I'm proud of you in this vídeo dude!
A real talk.
Seems like you read a book and made a video on it. I suggest reading more books on the topic from other sources
From a dude who's user name screams white fragility
@@Zero_XZ17 lol. My user name is older than the term
Just cause words didn't exist for something yet doesn't mean it didn't exist in the past. Like trees definitely existed before language bud.
@@Zero_XZ17 lol. Ancient Egypt has hieroglyphs of trees. Not sure why you feel the need to virtue signal so hard but dude this is the internet. You don't seem to be replying from a place of strength
You done making that strawman yet?
Drex, I am so grateful that you're willing to go after sensitive topics that need to be addressed. Thanks for having the courage to use your platform to create open conversation for positive change
Thank you I really appreciate that! 🙂
(At the time of writing this) I noticed the anonymous like/dislike ratio is pretty even but there's only postive comments from verifiable accounts ..... If you had the courage to dislike this ... why not share your thoughts attached to your name as well if you truly believe they aren't misguided?
So I have two really interesting data points on this currently. The first is that the UA-cam Studio mobile app does indeed show a small handful of comments from people critical of these ideas and my presentation of them that range from using DiAngelo as a source to outright skepticism of the concept of race in general but near as I can tell those comments are not appearing on the public-facing side of this video (or at least they aren't for me). I don't know if UA-cam is automatically blocking comments that contain specific keywords or phrases that have been identified as offensive, that these are people I've already blocked from other interactions, or that there's some programming quirk between point A and point B.
There also seems to be a disconnect in the site’s processing- it seems “Like” can be clicked without logging in, but to click “Dislike” you have to choose between “Report” and “Cancel.” There are comments here that should probably show a LOT of “Dislikes” that aren’t registering.
Thank you, Drex. Great explanation and thoughtful as always.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. I've noticed a lot of racism in the community, and I'm stoked to see it getting addressed. Nice to know you're not just a poi teacher, but also a comrade.
Working on it! Thank you for the support and the feedback! 🙂
Kudos to you on the video, and I appreciate the effort. So many of the comments here are exactly what this video describes. Racism, microaggressions, end poor response by white people are definitely in the flow arts community. Keep up the good work, and don't let any of the comments get you down. Negative comments? Proof of the problem. Comments about your channel and being more inclusive or seeking out POC? Food for thought on action.
Just to clarify, if i say my life has been hard, and i am white, i am expressing/engaging in white fragility? Even if objectively speaking life has been difficukt for me?
Good question and the short answer is no...but if that's your response when someone points out a microaggression to you, that is a form of White Fragility. Again, think about if you step on someone's toe. What does your life being hard have to do with whether you stepped on their toe or not?
White people can experience difficulties in life. Rarely do those difficulties arise from the colour of their skin / race.
@@DrexFactor fair point, it has nothing to do with it. I just don't agree with the idea that it is fragile to get emotional/defensive over someone telling you off, regardless of topic. Is it not human nature to be defensive? Or are we conditioned to be oversensitive? In the decade plus of being in this community, i cant personally say ive ever even run into these situations. Thanks for responding so quickly
@@sharynlogan6430 says who? Where is the proof of that.
@@djgrishkin1 I can definitely relate to feeling defensive when you're called out, but it's often a sign of deep insecurity. Therapists, psychologists, and professional communicators all agree - rather than get defensive, you should listen and try to understand the other person. Getting defensive never, and I mean NEVER, gets you the results you want. You want the person you've hurt to think you're a good guy? You want them to acknowledge your feelings? That won't happen if you don't acknowledge their feelings first. Like Drex said, when you hurt somebody, you apologize. You can't convince them they're not hurt; feelings just don't work like that.
Bless you.
Thank you!
Excuse my ignorant ass, but I really haven't witnessed any racial issues in the flow art community. Is this a prevalent thing?? I personally haven't seen it on flow art groups on social media. Also, wtf is a micro aggression? is that like being passive aggressive? or?
It is normal that you can't see it unless you train yourself to become more aware of it.
I haven't seen much racism in any of the alternative scenes I am part of because I only knew how racist openly displayed violence look like but not the more subtle structural stuff. Since I read more about what the racism experience is like for People of Color I see it everywhere
A micro aggression is an unintentional and unconscious action that contributes to a racist culture.
I can only give you an example from my country: here in Germany, People of Color are often asked where they come from. If they answer they are born in Berlin they will be asked again: where their parents/grandparents/... come from.
White people usually don't intend to harm, they are just being curious. But this is unintended hurtful behaviour
There is a lot of People of Color with German citizenship that live here since generations and are socialized as fully German, not speaking the language of their ancestors, etc. there are even more white Germans with migration backround. A huge percentage of white Germans actually have migration backround like from Poland or france etc.
But this does not happen to white people with migrant parents. If white people are asked where they are from and they answer they are born in Berlin, it would be considered totally inappropriate to ask for intimate details of family history, if you just met someone. and you'd small talk about something else. As someone with a white migration backround you will be treated just like everyone else. It happens only to People of Color
This is considered a micro aggression because what it tells to People of Color each and every time it happens is
1. that they will always be considered different and not like other Germans no matter how long their family has been here and no matter how German they feel inside.
2. Also it is a matter of respect not to push someone to talk about intimate and potentially painful family history when you are just talking the first few sentences. Just as it is insensitive to ask a wheel chair user why they use a wheel chair in the first few sentences you talk to them.
And it shows a decreased respect for them.
3. that this white person most likely isn't very emotionally close with someone of Color, who would have told them how shit that feels. but the white person behaves very unawarely and curious about that "exotic strange person" who is actually just german and not exotic at all. So it also shows how segregated communities actually still are
There is a lot more layers to a simple question like where your parents are from than you might be aware of as a white person.
I hope this example works to give you an idea and transfer it to other situations
@@anjaneuber7381 Interesting! Thanks for the info! My only issue is the fact that if its truly unintentional and unconscious, anyone can say anything is a micro aggression if they perceive it to be a micro aggression. It is a slippery slope that can be taken too far. We can ALL agree that racism and racists are the scum of the earth, but how can one person say its a micro aggression when another person doesn't. If that makes sense. Its all up to that persons perspective.
@@TryptOut208 yes that is exactly the problem! that people can experience things as discriminatory which actually aren't. But usually the way to deal with it is to just accept that person's reality and their hurt. Because usually it is the normality of the majority who defines and it is just to propable that a criticized person woild always say that what they said is not discriminative. So if the criticized person decides people who receive unconscious bias will never find justice.
And to be honest, it doesn't make too much of a difference anyway if it is discrimination or not. Fact is what you said hurt someone unintentionally. Does it matter who is right?
this discussion is more about how willing we generally are to deal with criticism and with not being the good guy, but how to react softly to the hurt of others, and apologize sincerely even if we had no intent to hurt..
this really isn't about being a bad person if you didn't know in advance that what you say is hurtful. We can't know every little single issue all these diverse groups, or which even single people might be facing. We'll just have to find ways to react calmly when someone experiences something we say as a discriminatory thing. No matter what is right.
Because all they are really saying is, be careful when you say things like that, you might hurt someone and contribute to an oppressive system. What they are not saying is what a bad person and fascist you are.
It can easily escalate into that if people react fragile to criticism but that's not usually how it starts.
I think it is a way nicer way to deal with it to just say "thanks for telling me, I will reflect about it" than to get angry and start a discussion about who is right.
Which is generally good advice for any conflict, not just discrimination issues.
@@TryptOut208 also about your nazi example be aware of this difference:
Discrimination is not about criticising a person's opinion or behaviour but their identity.
If I say "nazis are scum of the earth" that is not discrimination. because people chose to be nazis or not. They chose this ideology and chose their behaviour.
If I say something nasty about Black people that is discrimination. Because people don't chose to be Black. It's how they are born
One of the best videos about White Fragility I've seen. Well done! How about retitling this video "Drex on White Fragility"? For the life of me, other than the example of prop makers and POC representation (something only 1% of your audience might have any experience with), I couldn't find anything in this talk specifically related to "in the Flow Arts." I kept waiting for some example of microaggression that you have actually seen in flow art situations (other than online trolls).
This is a great video :) Thank you for creating space for discussion around this. Disclaimer: I am new to the community, so this may already exist and I may have just not found it yet. If so, I apologize for the superfluous comment :)
I would love to see a video in the future (or maybe even a virtual panel event) featuring non-white and non-cis-male flow artists talking more about the flow community. It would be great to see and hear what those artists would like to say around this topic and you have both an amazing following and platform as well as a real talent at moderating and facilitation.
Your intentions is good but the points in this video are just bad. Let's take the example that there are fewer POC sponsored by prop makers. If a white person says that it actually is proportional to the number of POC, how has that person done anything wrong by trying to analyze the situation and see the reason behind it? Why are we shaming people and accusing them of "white fragility" just for disagreeing or wanting to argue anything that has to do with race. Disregarding someones argument and labeling it "white fragility" just because of their skin color is racist in itself. It makes very hard to have a honest discussion about race and racism if white people are afraid of talking about it because they can be accused of having white fragility for simply disagreeing with an argument. In the beginning when you explain what white fragility is you say that when someone is confronted with conversation of privilege, racism and discrimination they display behaviour such as *argumentation*. This shows how the concept of "white fragility" isn't meant to actually further the discussion about racism, just to shame and scare white people.
Drex you said "Negro" at 10:38 and that means that you are super racist. If you disagree with this or want to explain that it wasn't racist, then that means that you have white fragility. Do you see the problem here?
Again, I think your intentions are good and I appreciate that you try to make the flow arts community better. I just think that the concept of "white fragility" does more harm than good as it scares away people that are on the edge of joining the discussion.
"If a white person says that it actually is proportional to the number of POC, how has that person done anything wrong by trying to analyze the situation and see the reason behind it?"
Well first up by trying to analyze it themselves without including the input of any People of Color in it. Simply doing that in itself is a statement that "I believe that my experience is so important that I don't need anyone else's to form a conclusion about this." See how that places yourself in the center of that question rather than people who might have a very different perspective?
"It makes very hard to have a honest discussion about race and racism if white people are afraid of talking about it because they can be accused of having white fragility for simply disagreeing with an argument."
I imagine you'll find this difficult to believe, but I honestly feel vastly more comfortable talking about race than I did before I started acknowledging my own Whiteness and the privilege that comes with it. What's more, I'm able to have open and honest conversations with my Friends of Color and they feel comfortable talking about their own experiences and pointing out ways that I can improve.
"Drex you said "Negro" at 10:38 and that means that you are super racist."
If a Person of Color calls me out and says that my reciting the title of this movie makes them uncomfortable I'm happy to take that feedback, apologize, and avoid repeating that movie title in the future. Thus far none have and this video is on several platforms at this point.
"I just think that the concept of "white fragility" does more harm than good as it scares away people that are on the edge of joining the discussion."
Can you explain how?
@@DrexFactor 1. The value of statistics are not based on the person who cites them. There is no personal experience involved in calculating the number of POC sponsored/total POC in the community.
2. I'm glad that it has helped you become more comfortable talking about race. But don't you think that it can be a bit alienating to be accused of "white fragility" for people who are first getting into discussing race or those who are just not well educated on the topic?
From my personal experience of arguing for veganism and animal ethics for many year, the majority of people don't respond well to direct accusation, especially if they don't know that they are doing something wrong. It is easier to persuade people by explaining the problem in general instead of going after them personally.
3. The point was to show that what defines "white fragility" is so wide that everyone in the world could be included. I will give a new hypothetical to demonstrate this clearer. "Drex you live in a house, that is very racist." If you would argue that this statement is false, that action would fall under "white fragility".
4. It discourages the discussion about race because it labels the act of argumenting as something bad. It is easy to mischaracterize, giving more easy ammunition for the alt-right to use in order to sway people away, just like they have been doing with feminism for years. It is fairly rhetorically aggressive, possibly alienating a lot people who are on the edge of joining the discussion. At the moment this video has 34 likes and 33 dislikes. I don't think that those 33 are racist or evil in any way, they probably misinterpreted the video or felt attacked by it.
I might have come across as too aggressive towards this topic but I do think that it is possible to discuss "white fragility" as a general phenomenon if the people discussing are well experienced in the race debate. I just think that it never should be used as a argument to persuade people or "win" debates because of the many flaws I mentioned earlier.
If this made you uncomfortable enough to say drex needed to label it differently, congratulations! You're the demographic this video is trying to help.
@@Zero_XZ17 I
criticized the video because I want to accomplish the same goal as Drex, just in a different way. Your comment just proved my main point, that people call "white fragility" to dismiss valid arguments and avoid discussion. But I guess it's easier to mock people and morally grand stand instead of furthering the discussion :)
See previous comment. This made you uncomfortable. You don't like the wording. You'd prefer something perhaps more to the point, softer even. Again, you are exactly the demographic this is trying to reach. You want to help? Take a step back and actually absorb the information presented here before firing of a response that's half cocked at best.
Might be exactly an example of what you're referring to, but did you basically imply that no white person has ever had a rough life? I entirely admit to not knowing everything, but I find that over sensitivity is as dangerous as the lack there of I'm a firm believer that balance is necessary no matter what the topic at hand is
Also in my first hand experience, claiming to be colorblind doesn't imply that you ignore the cultural background of a given race but more so that you don't assume peoples cultural habits based on their outward appearance. It's a race related way of saying don't judge a book by its cover
@@melvinrobinson7789 9:48
I asked before I got to that point but right in the begining he brought up denying being privileged is part of the problem, but idk assuming every white person is well off or hasn't been a victim of racism themselves is just as hazardous. And mentioning it is considered harmful. It's best not to feed into racism and let it die rather than feeding into it
@@melvinrobinson7789 It's not that white folks don't have a tough life. It's that the color of their skin isn't one of the things making their life harder.
@@an__gun uncommon knowledge everyone has been discriminated against at least once in their life. I went to school in areas where whites were the minority and I can tell you first hand doesn't matter what color you are if you're the minority in the area some people will take advantage
Such a load of CRAP. Unsubscribing.
Yeah! Appreciate the video :)
It's a shame people have to pay for the mistakes of an old world.
Questions tho?
Is thinking about everybody different from thinking about anyone group?
Should ethnic groups, races and the discriminated ect. only accept thing purely on their terms?
I see that as a power play and the world could do with less of it, if there's no conversation between everyone what's the point?
Some white people want to talk about the subject but are vastly misunderstood because they used the wrong word or presented themself in a way that overs perceived to be a certain way( words decided by a group of people not the population as a large so can be very biased some times end many people have never come across these words or have no connection to the implication it's being used for by the group ). They understand that there is an issue and actively try their best not to involve themselves in that behaviour but are well aware of the historic events that led to the situation we find ourselves in today. But if they involve themself in the conversation there view is disregarded and there very well may be people that could help solve the issue but when things are put in a way that only one group can voice there opinions your doing what caused the problem in a sense to begin with
You mention divides like peoples cultures are separate but they overlap in various ways we are human not a different species that appeared in different parts of the world stealing culture from each over, all our founding cultures shared the same origins. Only when money land resources are brought into the equation do we turn on each over and how are these conflictions made?
Through division, war, racism, sexism, sizeism, religion, gender, sex you name it.
Someone had an agenda to complete and getting on with your neighbours leave you more inclined to say '' well no they have done nothing wrong why would i fight them ''
And with that thousand of the years of manipulation occur to turn us all against each over, i think there's a lot to be said of forgiveness for your fellow person as they mean not to cause you harm but do so because they think you will do so to the first under the influence of there leaders.
My thought on the whole situation is that we should be fighting against our freedoms and rights being stripped away and a species, as the human race rather than worrying about our personal identifications.
That being said if something you say hurts someone like you said then apologise we all say stuff that can be taken the wrong way and if it was due to your conditioning and if the person doesn't understand why then explain it or they don't learn but if the person explains there reasoning as to why they thought it wasn't or it genuinely was not that intent then let them speak as well don't shove it down there throat or then there's no dialogue and nothing can be learnt and above all put out the respect you want for yourself better yet extend that to the people you want to reach out to and you're going to get a better response, do you have to agree?
. . . well no but that doesn't mean you dislike them any less and it could plant the seed to a change in their behaviour?
Am well aware that some of the stuff I have said will reflect what you have said in the video but this is my point its a matter of perception and people tend to see the worst in things especially on the internent, I am a white person so this is biased, I don't know what it's like to be black or Hispanic or Asian but I do know what it's like just to be discriminated for just being myself and i think that's the one thing we should be able to relate to on a whole or at least it is for me anyway.
"It's a shame people have to pay for the mistakes of an old world. "
I mean...People of Color certainly are. There are Black Americans still alive who only got the ability to vote in their lifetimes. This isn't ancient history by any means.
"Is thinking about everybody different from thinking about anyone group?"
I'm honestly not sure what's being asked here, can you elaborate?
"Should ethnic groups, races and the discriminated ect. only accept thing purely on their terms?
I see that as a power play and the world could do with less of it, if there's no conversation between everyone what's the point?"
This...is literally what White people have done for the past 500 years. There's most definitely a conversation going on right now...there's been a lot of it on many of the FB groups for the past year. If you want to join that conversation then you're definitely more than welcome!
"Some white people want to talk about the subject but are vastly misunderstood because they used the wrong word or presented themself in a way that overs perceived to be a certain way( words decided by a group of people not the population as a large so can be very biased some times end many people have never come across these words or have no connection to the implication it's being used for by the group ). They understand that there is an issue and actively try their best not to involve themselves in that behaviour but are well aware of the historic events that led to the situation we find ourselves in today. But if they involve themself in the conversation there view is disregarded and there very well may be people that could help solve the issue but when things are put in a way that only one group can voice there opinions your doing what caused the problem in a sense to begin with"
I have not witnessed this phenomenon. What I have witnessed is White People getting called out for microaggressions and responding defensively that they have "plenty of Black friends", "well I didn't mean it", or "why is everything about race?" rather than simply saying "I'm sorry and I'll try not to do it again." If people are well-meaning then they should be well-meaning. If they simply don't want to engage in being humble in an authentic fashion then that's another matter entirely.
"You mention divides like peoples cultures are separate but they overlap in various ways we are human not a different species that appeared in different parts of the world stealing culture from each over, all our founding cultures shared the same origins. Only when money land resources are brought into the equation do we turn on each over and how are these conflictions made? "
So...stealing all those resources was okay and the fact that it benefitted some more than others is okay, then?
"My thought on the whole situation is that we should be fighting against our freedoms and rights being stripped away and a species, as the human race rather than worrying about our personal identifications.
In the United States in the past four years, Trans people have been stripped of the right to go to the bathroom of their gender, Women's reproductive rights have been curbed to the point where they cannot practically get abortions in a half dozen states, and Georgia has effectively re-suppressed the voting rights of its Black citizens. In the past four years I have lost no rights whatsoever. I think my Trans, Black, and Female friends get to go to the front of the line in fighting for freedoms and rights.
"That being said if something you say hurts someone like you said then apologise we all say stuff that can be taken the wrong way and if it was due to your conditioning and if the person doesn't understand why then explain it or they don't learn but if the person explains there reasoning as to why they thought it wasn't or it genuinely was not that intent then let them speak as well don't shove it down there throat or then there's no dialogue and nothing can be learnt and above all put out the respect you want for yourself better yet extend that to the people you want to reach out to and you're going to get a better response, do you have to agree?"
I don't. An apology that comes with conditions isn't actually an apology and intention is not the same thing as impact. Again, think of the metaphor of stepping on someone's toe: do you really need to explain your reasoning for why you did it or can you just say sorry and you both move on?
"I am a white person so this is biased, I don't know what it's like to be black or Hispanic or Asian but I do know what it's like just to be discriminated for just being myself and i think that's the one thing we should be able to relate to on a whole or at least it is for me anyway."
Well I am glad to hear that this connected and I hope your meditations lead you to new understandings!
Not to mention historic rates of voter suppression and gerrymandering that have just now been inflicted in our lifetimes that are actively ramping up policies that are aimed at taking the voice and agency of POC from voting.
@@DrexFactor I did attempt a reply to this all on two separate occations and both times my text vanished and there was alot of text writen in the reply as well a the quotes from the two original comments, am not writing it out a 3rd time there was some point that you made that I had some information of which you replyed with but instead but instead am gonna thank you for replying and not being hot-headed.
White ego in communities is a thing. It comes from privilege and sharing experiences and learning is a way to develop new friendships and culture.
100% agreed. It's amazing how hard many White Flow Artists will work to avoid learning about experiences outside their own. Also super necessary, though.
I am not writing this to disagree or agree with any of the content of this video.
In argumentation you have two elements: Premises and Logic
Premises being the things you belief to be true at the start
Logic being the way you draw conclusions from them
Premise opposing view: representation by percentage is adequate and they think that that percentage is met (according to what is said in the vid)
Premise Drex: current representation isnt adequate ->no further explanation what adequate would be in his opinion
its not even clear if youd disagree with precentage based representation or not. so you cant even tell if you disagree because you think percentage based representation isnt adequate or because you think the percentage isnt met or for some different reason you also havent mentioned
that is why this discussion is going no where.
if your premises are different the conclusions will be too. in oder to further the discussion youd have to address the premises. if you dont you wont convince people of your opinion. if you dont you are take only participating in a shouting contest and hope to be the loudest.
if you state what adequate would be in your opinion and why and try to convince people why they should too then youd get more people on your side. people wont accept your conclusions if they disagree with the premises (unless you can trick them with rhetoric) no matter the topic.
Hope this was helpful.
to be clear no matter which side of the discussion one is on everyone makes these mistakes me included. the nature of a healthy discussion is to try and tell each other where we went wrong exactly.
Thank you for this. I read White Fragility in the fall and this is very well put from what I took away from my reading
You have a way with words.
It takes courage for you to confirm you are racist. Well done.
Can you do one on cultural appropriation and making money from that?
👍🏻👍🏻 appreciate that you talk about these things, always
Thank you for the feedback as well!
Madd respect to you on this Drex
Wonderful! This is so beautifully framed. Thank you,
UA-cam Search JP Spears:
How to Be a Woke White Person
Real talk: that man terrifies me. There was always something vaguely uncomfortable about his brand of his humor: a life coach who engaged in a form of eviscerating condescension on the very people he was marketing himself to...but watching him go full-tilt conspiracy nutter as we entered quarantine kind of laid bare just how cruel and manipulative his videos really were. Especially given how uncomfortably close his own irrational tirades are to those he’s historically marked. Quarantine has led to a lot of stones getting turned and people in counter cultures discovering just how thin the veneer of authority and superiority many men in the community wore. In retrospect his reveal as a paranoid narcissist turned out to be a harbinger of things to come. Good riddance.
@@DrexFactor The character of JP Spears aside, he makes some valid points in his video I feel you should strongly consider.
I would like to try to talk about these issues but i dont understand american micro agressions term and i would probably step in some land mines in these issues as i would probably not agree 100% with all those ideas. Anyway, beeing far away from america, i see how good it is to live in there, if these are some major problems over there.
And that's fine! Nobody's expecting you to get it perfect. All anybody is looking for is for you to listen to the input of others and apologize when you do something that hurts them. That's all. It's okay to make mistakes--I've made many!
It is not an American Idea. It is being discussed even in science internationally
Love when I just go to flow art events edm exc. and the only thing i care about is moving my body n spinning poi i dont believe white fragility or white privilege its just sad seeing these politics n race shaming on someone color of their skin so i disagree with you
I am with you here. I have no interest in dragging these kinds of issues into flow arts, whatsoever. The last thing I had hoped for was politics being involved in our art, and I can see it starting to tear apart flow clubs, chase off newcomers, and alienate oldtimers who either don't agree, or don't want to have a lecture about their "white fragility" while they are just trying get some dancing in and have fun with their friends. This is all so disappointing.
They should not be so colour picky. animal or Veg has colour difference a rose is red white and pink I don't see end roses fighting. Color should not be a issue in my mind. Personally this childish behavior needs to be drilled out of humanity because it's a real ugly topic that offends so many people. The actual fact is we have brains we should act like it and we should not offend people, I say we are all humans as we are intelligent we should act it like it and stop arguing about things that offends others and drill this behavior out of the ones that wish to harm all
If color goes unseen, then systemic racism goes unchecked.
Yes, the color of someone's skin should not be an issue, judgement, or impact them as a person.
However, we live in a country (US)/world that has major issues because of systemic racism, and if we don't bring up the issues that people of color face - such as disproportionately higher rates of incarceration, higher sentences and charges for the same crimes, systemic neglect in the healthcare system, police brutality, lower rates of employment callbacks based on skin color/non-european sounding names, representation in media, acceptance to colleges, chances of getting homes and large purchases at a fair price, representation in politics......
Not being racist isn't enough in a racist society. We need to be actively anti-racist.
@@casterboarderfiend yes i couldn't agree more people we need to push out the racist people and make the held accountable for there actions. end derogatory comments toward anyone of difference i have autism and adhd and a fue other problems iv had derogatory name put my way because I'm different i dont want me to be the subject of this discussion just as a example. its not just race it not just colour people are targeting iver in the street or killing of people who wish to target people they see as lower in the food chain. i don't think enough coverage is give to people with genuine mental health problems that make there life super challenging and the rasist and derogatory comments and actions of other should be a prison able offence point blank the damage it douse to lifes is sad
Stating there is a problem does not mean there is one.
No the fact that there is a problem is proof there's a problem. Hell your comment is proof theres a problem
@@Zero_XZ17 doing my own recearch has ben good
"Have you ever denied to have privilege, that is having your life been difficult despite being white" - This is for me is a super silly thing to say. You can have a hard life no matter your skin color. Having alcoholic parents, being bullied all your life or being sexually assulted, stings just the same no matter what the color of your skin is. It creates insecurities and trauma.
I agree we should take care of each other and make each other feel welcome. But treating anyone differently (both better and worse) due to skin color is silly to me. I treat people according to how they treat me. I don't care if you're green or purple, speak fluent or 5th language, are tall or tiny. You are a human being deserving basic respect until proven otherwise. Demanding special treatment because you are *insert color* skinned is victimising yourself and enforcing to the "us and them" culture that you dislike in the first place.
This fragility and demanding special treatment is a negative trend in my eyes. I will take a distance to anyone claiming these needs, and they should also keep a distance to me. Then they can be shielded and i won't unknowingly insult someone for saying the name of a color out loud or "offensive" language. I am as much in my right to be me as you are to be you. No more, no less.
So are you saying that it is impossible that you have unconscious behaviour patterns that are painful for other people? (If you think that, let a psychology student tell you that you are definitely wrong)
Are you saying that you don't have to take responsibility for unconscious behaviour?
Are you saying that if you learn something new you are not yourself any more?
This is not about treating anyone better than someone else. This is about changing behaviour patterns that are painful and exclusive to People of Color and not even aware to us as white people. We are not treating them better if we change but just give them the chance to feel as safe as us
Just let me tell you that you are wrong about the experience of the poor white and Black person being the same.
The white person has not been bullied at school because of their race. Is not controlled by police because of their race. Is not rejected by the landlord because of their race. They might have many problems in their life but none of them is about race. And the other problems can get much worse if you got racial stress on top of that. Life is even more unsafe for a homeless Person of Color than for a white one, with violent racists beating them up because of their skin color etc
And even if you were right and you actually managed to treat all people exactly the same way, without any influence by unconscious bias and stereotypes, then you would still have to at least acknowledge, that there are many people who don't do that and that this impacts People of Color
@@anjaneuber7381 No, if you re-read my comment you will see that is not something i claim.
I deliberately try to treat all human respectfully. I believe we all make mistakes but we should also try to work with our personal issues and try to be a little resilient. I think over awareness for microaggresions and this increasong fragility is counter productive to trying to improve mental health in the population.
It's also a very poor way of reducing racism to turn it towards another ethnicity.
If we manage tp stop pointing out eachothers differences and acknowlegde each other as equal human beings no matter how you look or feel, then racism will decrease.
@@kasperk9891
I am confused by the words you use. Fragility is used here to describe reactions of white people who are criticized for unconsciously saying or doing racist things.
It is not used in this context to describe the sensitive way in which People of Color react to things white people do.
But you seem to turn it around.
This video is all about how to calmly react to being criticized for unconscious racist behaviour.
In this context it is not called fragile to criticize someone. But to not actually listen to criticism and ignore it or burst out when criticized.
From what I have seen most drama around discrimination discussions starts with white people's fragility. Not with People of Color criticising something.
I have seen white people just react by saying "thanks for letting me know, I will try to keep it in mind in future" and there was no emotional outbursts whatsoever then.
In some circles saying something like "you said a discriminatory thing" is not any worse than saying "you got something in your teeth". It is a neutral comment to which people just reply "ok" and then there is no drama
That is the way one should deal with criticism not just when it is about discrimination but generally.
If someone is hurt about something you do it really doesn't matter who is right or wrong. What matters is that you will try to adapt to the needs of another person and do your best.
Nobody is turning racism around and nobody thinks that you are a bad person.
That is just how many people interpret it. And that is exactly what white fragility is about: to derail from racism by interpreting all kinds of other things
@@anjaneuber7381 I'm not turning it around. i'm using it for the other meaning it has. I'm doing my best to express myself in my 3rd language.
Anyways behaviour like putting words and claims in my mouth and and deciding what words mean seems like a debate i don't want to participate in.
As i said in my original comment. For the sake of peace i will distance myself from your needs of guilt tripping strangers on the internet.
I was telling people it's possible to be kind to each other and show basic respect, but i guessed you really proved me wrong ;-)
@@kasperk9891 I am trying to explain to you the sentence you criticized because I have the impression you didn't understand the video. Which is why I am pointing out how you are using words differently than the video. It is difficult to discuss anything if you don't stick with the definition of words which are used in this specific context. If you are guilt tripping because of what I am writing you might be experiencing exactly what that video is about: fragility. It is not my intention to make you guilt trip. And neither is it anyone's intention do guilt trip you who brings up a matter of discrimination.
None of this is about guilt. It is about ways to deal with criticism.
Because none of us is "the good guy" who doesn't do mistakes. And if you say you are, I just don't believe you. I haven't met anyone yet. And that doesn't make us bad people. But to just ignore it and pretend we are all happy hippies who don't have to ever look at the shadows won't solve any of the problems we face
Thanks for doing this. Mostly nice comments so far. Good luck 🤞
Make up for the last min black history video?? I’m only wrestling with it bc the execution here is aweful.
Usa, "American" spinners about, knowing, or talking about flow arts or flow artists reality in *all of América*...
Most don't even thing we exist, and we have same level or are equal to yall but with many social and económic distresses that you just don't face.
And don't even talk about help, or making net. And enjoy each other.
Same with Asia, and África.
The flow.community it's consumed in it's self in just some.regional self indulgence.
It's just maaaaybe the shine and few groups that sell over here that you may hear.
But again and pointing to another structural situation, most are gonna be white, male, "atractive", and heterosexual looking groups, or performers. Women are most likely be held to that standard plus the skin showing as a must.
When discussing this in flow groups many people answer on those fragility patterns.
It's just unverable...
Need to hear more concrete solutions. Not responding with white fragility isn’t going to solve the issue until darker skinned people are equally represented. And you should lead by example. Are you going to make your likes and follows exactly 50-50% equal? How many black Facebook friends do you have compared to white?
Better start unfriending white artists until you find darker artists to follow.
First step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one......
I'd like it better when poi was the focus.
Now everybody has a totalitarian opinion made with a fraction of information.
It's ridiculous.
Cheap generalizations based on the skin color is a racist bs that no one should buy into.
If there is injustice, you help them by lifting those oppressed, not by pointing fingers to whoever looks similar to those who oppress.
It brings a false sense of achievement that does nothing but perpetuating the same topic you wish to fight against.
Unfollowing this dude. Anyways... His tricks became boring like 3 years ago. 💩🙈
Agreed. This is all so lame and disingenuous and its ruining poi, along with everything else it creeps into. like anyone wants to hear a lecture about race when they come to learn about poi.
xD man the left has you guys good
How so? There's not a lot of context here to work with so can you elaborate on your argument?
And cracker barrel is usually to the left of a hotel on the interstate. Just saiyan.
"Microaggressions" .....we have created such weak people. Our ancestors went to bloody WARS. SO PATHETIC HONESTLY.
That’s a lot of words for “I lack the capacity for empathy.”
@@DrexFactor I have no empathy for weenies. Pull yourself up and don't be weak. Our society needs strong men not fragile men. I'm ok with not having empathy.
You love making click bait videos
I LOVE YOU!! THANK YOU FOR BEING MY FAVORITE TEACHER
Awwww...thank you so much 😊