Majority of Scholars Wrong about Jesus Feeding the 4000: The Mark Series pt 26 (8:1-10)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The majority of scholars think that Mark has unintentionally reduplicated the story of Jesus multiplying the loaves and fishes. It turns out that they are wrong for a number of reasons. In this study through Mark 8:1-10 we will try to understand the deep theological meaning of the passage as well as answer scholarship which has been unable to see the forest through the trees.
One of the major issues with scholarship when it comes to the gospels is an unwise assumption that Mark is based on a bunch of stories about Jesus floating around a community of people, changing over time, and finally being written down after the fact. The evidence shows that Mark is not the result of a community who changed stories over time. It's from eye witness testimony! If you want more on this please listen to the first video in the Mark series where I go through "Who Wrote Mark" and discuss evidence of it's eye witness sources. Seriously, it's really neat stuff. • Who Wrote Mark's Gospe...
Here is the whole Mark playlist - • The Gospel of Mark Ser...
If you want to support this ministry you can do so here. biblethinker.o...
"When you go to bed (tonight), the love of God does not depend on your performance today." Wow!
❤🌹❤
Yes, he’s good. I feel like a whole weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Praise be to Jesus ❤️🙏
Does that mean that everything we do is okay and God is going to love us any way. That's the problem I have with unconditional eternal security.
@@caroleimani9754 nothing that we could do through our own works, could bring us Salvation, but only what Jesus Christ did at Calvary, on the Cross. Salvation is a gift for every man who loves Jesus Christ, believe He is the Son of God, that He died at Calvary to take away our sins, and that He rose again on the 3rd day. But if someone is truly born again and loves Jesus Christ with all his heart, mind and soul, he will keep Jesus Christ commandments of the new Testament. ( which doesn't mean that he or she will not stumble sometimes). Only Jesus Christ is perfect. But we have to stay in Him and not fall away from our Faith in Him, and try every day. Amen❤🕊❤
@@caroleimani9754 No, it's simply a reminder of what Jesus Himself by "my burden is light."
Such good teaching! In my 65 years of following Jesus I never heard this distinction between the 2 feedings: ie Jewish / Gentile. In that context the # of baskets is interesting.: 12 for Abraham's children, 7 to 'complete' the Bride.
Mike Winger. I find myself laughing out loud at the jokes you make. But the the church you preach at gives soft chuckles. 🤣 tough crowd! Your dad jokes are the best!!
I do the same thing all the time! 😂 He cracks me up, Idk how people don't laugh in the audience lol
Wow guys. If you find Mike funny then I'm guessing people don't laugh at your jokes much. Weirdos.
I would know coz I also really like Mike's jokes!
Maybe the crowd chuckles but aren't audible because they don't have mics near them, even though they have Mike near them
“Jesus is the genius” yes.
What a beautiful picture of Jesus offering his body for the gentiles as well. The best preachings are about Jesus.
Seto Relentless Crusader Kaiba understatement indeed! Did you hear the part I was quoting in the video? Very good point!
Mike, I have one real complaint : You have so much good content I don’t know where to start....🥰🥰🥰🥰
Comment 96: 2880 views.
Comment 113: 4136 views.
Comment 196: 13,787 views on January 29, 2020...
So glad I can be a part of this exciting and fruitful ministry.
1 Cor 15:58
🤣😄🤣
Here is part of the letter of thanks....
Thank you so much for your financial and prayer support for this past year. This year Bible Thinker has become a ministry that is completely enabled by donors! Because of your support, the UA-cam channel has reached 100,000 subscribers and got 6 million views in 2019
I still don't understand what the big deal is about viewers and subscribers
Does it have to do with money? Is it a "pride thing?" Like: Yay, I have 100,000 viewers and you have only 100 viewers. I don't understand. It gives me a bad initial impression.
Thank you for the reminder that ministry is about serving God and people, and to be careful that it doesn't become only task-focused to help us not to become slowly bitter. I am going through some difficulties regarding ministry, church management and life. This just reminded me to keep on having compassion for people in ALL areas, to have grace for myself when I fail, and to keep on reorienting ny life to do everything in love for God. Thank you for your ministry, this blesses me so much!
This is so...spot on. Those scriptures needed to be recognized and acknowledged.its so easy to read and not notice.
Your 'Mark series' have been such a delightful education for my family & I. You've opened up hidden gems, I had never noticed or thought of before... even though I had read Mark, since the early Nineties!
Yea growing up in church as a child I didnt really hear much of Mark. I love how Mike goes in depth about all his vids. I'm a avid watcher. Praise Jesus!!
@@shaolinshowdown1123 His genuine love for scripture shines throughout his videos, thus making 'the learning process' (for me) an additionally enjoyable experience!
The Jew first and then the Gentile... Wonderful! Jesus never fails to give you such amazing understanding... Thank you so much Mike!!
Wow, this is eye-opening! I never understood what Jesus meant when He said, "Be careful...watch out for the yeast of the pharisees and Herod." He said this right after feeding Jews and Gentiles. The pharisees hated gentiles and Herod hated Jews. Plus, the pharisees wanted a sign of wonder to prove Christ's truth but they didn't see the miracle in the feeding. Mark 8:21, after the recount He said, "Do you still not understand." There was food left over, there was more to go around no matter the number of loaves or people. He feeds all, no matter the type of person.
@Samurai 侍Kasai 火災 scholars think that these feedings are the same one repeated. It was the original word for basket that implies one group was gentile. That is what is new.
Mark 8,19,20 Jesus says of the first miracle baskets,and of the second miracle large baskets
What Yashua meant by me careful with the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod was him warning about Paul. Paul says in his writings that he is a Pharisee and he was related to Herod. When Yashua fed the 4,000 he made the people wait three days before he started preaching to them. Paul also went into the desert for three years and failed to teach during that time. When Yashua fed the 5,000 he had 12 baskets which represents the 12 disciples and the 12 tribes. Also, during the feeding of the 5,000 Yashua looks up to heaven and blesses the food. However, when he feeds the 4,000 he ended up with 7 baskets and he didn’t look up to heaven when he held the basket. Right after the feeding of the 4,000 he warns about the leaven of the Pharisee. Take this to prayer. Paul is not what people think. He is allowed to deceive just like God allowed the serpent to tempt Eve.
What a great sermon Mike, it touched my heart, thanks so much!
I will never read that passage in the same way again. Thank you, Pastor Mike, for unlocking the beauty in this passage!
I love how it would take more than a lifetime to fully understand all of the “Easter eggs” in the Bible 🥰
Just believe first!
Jesse Selbert belief is not a choice. I’ve tried to “just believe” before but I’m not convinced. But I’m here on this channel searching for objective truth
@@javariusjavarlamariuslamar3759 When the bible talks about faith and belief, it is speaking specifically of the kind of faith you seek. Keep seeking, you will find it :)
Yea its amazing
That's the beauty of God's Word. Newbies are amazed by its wonders, and yet a person who's studied it their entire life can always find something new as well. I find this to be another line of evidence for its divine origin!
Thank you for the great reminder to be compassionate with others. I get so frustrated with my alcoholic siblings & spouse. Please pray for their salvation. Thanks Mike great teaching. 😁👏
Mike, I am so grateful to the Lord that you're my brother in Christ! Would you consider doing some more verse by verse studies? I feel greatly blessed by our Lord for the work He is doing through you and your channel.
Thank you for this message pastor Mike.
Father's peace, comfort, strength and joy be with you and your family.
Thank You Jesus for Your Love and Mercy. Praise Your Holy Name. 🙌🏻❤🙌🏻
Nice Message, Mike.
I think how hard it is to truly love others (and I'm speaking about all people, not your spouse and kids) is truly underrated. This has been a really struggle for me...to love and be compassionate to everyone...even those that are mean, or you don't get along with...it's hard there is no doubt!
That's my struggle too.. I hate humanity 😓
It is difficult to love others because we are so mean. 😖
And i hate myself because I am not able to do that, but God asks the impossible
And that's where prayerS help. Because we cannot do anything, but God can .
@@ssv7195 Don't worry. God is merciful.
One thing still is challenging for me, if they are two different events, which I believe they are, why did the disciples again say, “How can one feed these people with bread here in this desolate place?” Why not reflect on the first event and say, “Jesus, do what you did last time.” Regardless, exceptional reaching. This series continues to enrich my study of Mark.
I wonder this as well.
Maybe they simply “forgot”, or didn’t believe subconsciously that Jesus could do it again. For example if you’re barely scraping by each month, living pay check to pay check. Say you’re having trouble paying the bill so you pray to God for help, and he does through a lottery ticket or something. The following month comes and you’re still having trouble so you pray again for help. My guess is most of us, the second time (or maybe third or fourth time also) we would make the same prayer as the first time. Instead of praying “God, please do for me this month as you have the previous”, we may pray “God, I am still having trouble paying the bills, can you please help me again?” See how the latter has an element of doubt? We may be thinking subconsciously (or maybe consciously) “surely God won’t let me win the lottery again”.
Edit: I recommend “Not a Chance” by R.C. Sproul. Even when we witness or experience a miracle from God we may subconsciously credit “chance” instead. We may think “Oh it was just a coincidence, surely it won’t happen again”, even though chance doesn’t actually exist, as Sproul explains throughly in the book.
Mark 8:18-20 KJV
Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? [19] When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. [20] And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.
Even the Lord asked the disciples this question. Also, he proves definitively it’s two different events
This is new to me .. God Bless you Mike! .. A big fan here from Egypt :)
I'm not done watching this but I see where it's going! Thank you!
Wow great insight, you are truly gifted in how you mine the jems of scripture 💎💎💎😍👍✡️✝️
The depth of your teachings, Mike, is so awesome.
Thank you SO MUCH Mike. I'm learning so much from you!
Love your faithfulness Mike!
You've got that thing God does in people, man! I was looking specifically to see if I could hear someone I know zero about, including official schooling. I'm 4 or 5 sermons in over several days and i hear it there, from God.
I want to add, since the first statement might sound like super churchy cliche stuff or maybe even "sensing" mysticism: I don'tboften go through ONLY to see if I hear a definite believer teaching well. I just had a want to hear a new voice over UA-cam who was for Christ Jesus and just sort of experimented with whether or not I'd hear the voice of my (our) Savior in someone else and it happened to work, so I thought I'd share.
This, in particular, was a great teaching. It was also one of those personal to my situation, on right time to hear events.
Creepy comments and not so requested testimony aside, I do offer my thanks and prayer in Jesus! //joshua poore
If you're interested in the meaning of the numbers of baskets left after the multiplication of bread (12 and 7), I have heard an interesting theory about it. 12 would reprensent the 12 tribes of Israel, and 7 would represent the 7 Gentile nations from the promised land that the Jews had to drive away. They are mentionned in Deuteronomy 7:1
“When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than you,
Maybe......
Also the seven symbolic gentile churches of the New Testament era named and represented by the candlestick in Revelation 1
One of the best sermons I've heard.
As always, I sense God has directed your heart and your mind to open up truth. Thankful!
Yes I think you are right here. What if these two stories were two of many similar stories and these two the most important ones 🤗 APR4U
35:55 Something really funny, I started watching this video this morning (didn't finish it, resuming it now), and more or less on a whim I decided to go to my parish church for Morning Prayer (BCP), and it so happened that the New Testament reading for today was the feeding of the 4000! (In Matthew's version though). The thing that struck me the most was verse 36: 'he took the seven loaves and the fish, _and having given thanks he broke them and gave them to the disciples,_ and the disciples gave them to the crowds.'
I immediately wanted to point the Eucharistic connection out to my Vicar, but I didn't have the chance, there were so many other things to talk about. (Mainly the weird occurrence that the random video I was watching that morning correlated to the reading!)
ridethelapras: It is amazing how much that happens! God is AWESOME🦋
I think it is important to note that the order wasn't spiritual attention then physical attention. It was physical (healing), spiritual (teaching), then physical (food) and more teaching. I try to balance these, but it seems an emotional or physical need addressed first opens the door to the spiritual.
Thank you for this Mike. Lately I've bumped into people from a strange sect of Christianity who believe Christ only came for the lost sheep of Israel and that the gentiles were only the the 12 tribes scattered among the nations. This story among other passages in the new testament strongly refute those claims
Absolutely spot on! Thank you! God Bless!
Going along with your theme of expanding to the gentiles, I’ve heard the 12 baskets in the first feeding represented 12 tribes of Israel and 7 baskets in the second feeding represents the 7 gentile nations who once occupied Canaan as in Deuteronomy 7:1
What a beautiful teaching! Jesus is so awesome!
Thanks for the 1 cor 13 reminder that its all ministry!
The book of revelation was the first book I read of the Bible but the first gospel was mark and this is a wonderful study that brings me back to when I first got interested in who Christ is. In the future if God is willing and you have an unction to do so maybe you could go over the seven letters to the seven churches in revelation chapters two and three. Anyway thanks for all your hard work
So excellent full of Love young man of God ❣✝🌈🕊🔥
I think those two stories are also a repeated example of what church should be, learning and having communion!
Excellent sermon - God bless you
The reason most scholars are wrong is why Jesus said sin, the devil, the world have been overcome. He didn't warn them about those things he warned them about teachers and said everything from God is free and freely given and do not take money for what was given freely to you. Accept all hospitality because in my Fathers house there are many homes and all will be glad of your fellowship and freely look after you and help you on your way. As it is in Heaven so it is on earth.
The only people that don't take money and freely give their time and energy are the people that are the salt of the earth who will willingly do what they do for the church for free which is everything not teaching as unto God. On top of that they are willing to tithe and give to offerings at events over and above.
Teaching only takes up time and surely that is free? A true witness would know that.
3 days, no food, Jesus was possibly feeding them spiritually and knew once they would leave from him on a long travel home and he couldn't feed them all traveling back so he also needed to feed them physically.
The other reason I believe this is simply because it’s in the Bible. I believe everything in the Bible is the truth. If God didn’t want that story in there. It wouldn’t be.
Hahaha
Okay, I now see it.
Mark 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 In those days the multitude being very great, and having nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples unto him, and saith unto them,
2 I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat:
3 And if I send them away fasting to their own houses, they will faint by the way: for divers of them came from far.
4 And his disciples answered him, From whence can a man satisfy these men with bread here in the wilderness?
5 And he asked them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven.
6 And he commanded the people to sit down on the ground: and he took the seven loaves, and gave thanks, and brake, and gave to his disciples to set before them; and they did set them before the people.
7 And they had a few small fishes: and he blessed, and commanded to set them also before them.
8 So they did eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets.
9 And they that had eaten were about four thousand: and he sent them away.
10 And straightway he entered into a ship with his disciples, and came into the parts of Dalmanutha.
What you see there is a bunch of scripture there that was never in the bible until now
I agree, though scholars need to be respected and are usually right, it is usually fairly obvious when they wrong as is here
I never knew Jesus went to the Gentiles! That's amazing and beautiful!
I have never heard of any bible teacher saying that the feeding of the 5000 and the feeding of the 4000 are the same story. This is surprising to me. It is quite obvious that it happened twice.
Are you saying he said that they are the same story?
@@richardthenryvideos Not Mike. Mike is saying they are two separate stories. But, Mike is saying that many bible teachers teach that it is the same story.
@@monogrammadness got it. It was not clear when I first heard it. Thanks
@@monogrammadness Mike is not saying Bible teachers, rather specifically bible scholars: not at all the same thing.
I attended a Jesus Festival in Pennsylvania (40,000 attended) Ever see 40,000 people singing and worshiping ?) I witnessed a series of mind-blowing
healings during a baptism service at an outdoor lake there. The appeal and magnetism of seeing miracles firsthand is astounding, memorable and life- changing.
What was one of the miracles you saw?
Do you think that the 7 baskets left over at the feeding of the 4000 represent the 12 baskets left over at the feeding of the 5000 in the same way that Jesus came first to the 12 tribes but in this second feeding it is to the 7 churches in the book of Revelation? This makes sense to me in light of the mainly gentile crowd of the 2nd feeding.
Maybe the 12 tribes of Israel are represented in the 12 baskets, and the 7 continents of the world represented in the 7 baskets with the gentiles.
Mark Furler: I was going to say that...👍🏻🦋🙏
Please find my comment made yesterday. I think you will find it both interesting and true
I was thinking the same thing with the numbers, but for the 7 baskets I was thinking more of completeness. 7 represents complete and since he was near the end of his ministry he fed the Gentiles which signifies completion.
I forgot it was twice recorded of Christ feeding the multitude.
Loved this!
I can see why! It was both informative AND enjoyable!
Love this! Thanks so much!
Not only does Jesus feed first the Jews and then the Gentiles, but He also gives a duplication of his Big Sermon, first on "the Mount" to the Jews, and then on "the Plain" to the Gentiles. Luke, being the follower of Paul, records this second sermon, while Matthew, a Jewish writer, records the first. These are not just different versions of the same event, but Jesus actually did this (at least) twice, for new audiences, to the Jew first but also to the gentiles. So the whole ministry is duplicated: demons, healing, nature, Sermons, and Bread.
Jesus never turns away anyone who would follow Him. He only asks that we put Him first, before any other concern. Then He will take care of us. It doesn't matter whether we are Jewish or Gentile.
There is one thing i cant understand.Why did the disciples wonder how they could provide food for the mutitudes each time.zwas it that they forgot what happened the first time
That's an excellent point. Now I want to know!
The disciples were as disbelieving when it comes to miracles as many of us are still today. Remember when Jesus fed the 5000 (Mark 6:30) and immediately after he walks on water? The disciples had _just seen_ Jesus performing a miracle, yet here they are screaming in fear because they think it must be a ghost.
Or think of Lazarus' death. Mary and Martha know Jesus very well, but they don't expect him to revive their brother.
Do we count on miracles? Do we expect God to do things that are humanly impossible? We know that he _can_ because we have the Bible, but do we count on it? I don't think so. Just like the disciples.
Speaking of the book of Mark, it has Mark 16:18 in it claiming that Christians can drink poison and not be harmed by it as evidence to non-believers that this religion is actually true. I've been told this miracle performed by Christians ended a long time ago. My question is, if people required miracles performed in front of them to believe back then, why don't people today require miracles performed in front of them to believe? Why would a deity end this miraculous ability of believers designed to convince skeptics? It doesn't make sense. One possibility is that the claims from Mark 16:18 have always been not true.
Linden, the “long ending of Mark” is almost certainly not original. It was added later. I think of it as a summary of things that happened during the Acts period. Google the phrase “the long ending of Mark” and you will uncover much debate on it. I skip it when I read through that part of the Bible
@@TRAVISTHEDADDY I know. So a god would allow words which are not his to appear in his word...the Bible? I wonder what other verses in the Bible are not the word of a god. How do you tell the difference? We don't have the originals. So much of it could be simply the word of men, right?
The long ending of Mark is absolutely the inspired word of God and should not be removed on account of it missing (removed) from a very small handful of extremely questionable manuscripts.
If you read it carefully you’ll notice that Jesus is speaking to his disciples before his ascension. So in context, the ones preaching may be limited to his apostles. Then “them that believe” (again, context matters) are those who hear directly from the apostles. The book of Acts records these types of miracles and Paul’s epistles reference them as well. These signs were specifically designed to be an attestation of authenticity for the apostles, not something meant to continue indefinitely.
If you read the Bible assuming it’s nonsense then that’s probably all you’ll see, having blinded yourself to other possibilities. If you read it with an open mind and fairly, you may be surprised by what you discover.
Some commentators note the differences between some of the details of the accounts as a means of emphasizing that there were two distinct miracles: for example, the baskets used for collecting the food that remained were twelve 'κόφινοι' (hand baskets) in Mark 6:43 but seven 'σπυρίδες' (large baskets) in Mark 8:8. Cornelius a Lapide stated that a 'σπυρίς' or 'large basket' was double the size of a 'κόφινος'. An indication of the size of a 'σπυρίς' is that the apostle Paul was let out of a building through a gap in the Damascus city wall inside one, in order to avert a plot to kill him (Acts 9:25). In Matthew 16:7-11 and Mark 8:16-21 Jesus distinguishes the two miracles in a conversation with his apostles.
I'm only 17 minutes in, but the two stories are remarkably different, happen in different times, different scenarios, and different physical places with different goals in the narrative. The differences are stark, how in the world do they conflate the two?
One feeding is to the Jews and had 12 baskets of leftovers (for the **Jews**). The other was to GENTILES (this is obvious based on the location and the story of the woman that Jesus called a puppy) and had 7 leftover (completion). The gospel is to the Jews first and then the gentiles.
Jesus then points out the two feedings to the disciples and asks them if the number makes sense to them. He's pointing out the leftovers (7 baskets can compare to the crumbs given to the dogs in the story with the woman) show completion and perfection. Jesus is using comparison of two imagery/functional parable/metaphor/allegory from two real life actions to illustrate that Jesus will reconcile the gentiles to God as well. The nations will be redeemed, the whole world will be blessed.
Have we seen and have we heard
From the heavens to the skies and from the skies to ground
Having fed you having healed you, having taught you of the faith
Jesus opens up His nail scarred hand
And reveals His thorn scarred face.
His reflection, His sacrificial grace
Burn through us a blinding light
Hide our sin and in His service
Give us rest from all our flight
In this place of desolation
Jesus set for us a place
In the heart of His compassion
And the wonder of His grace.
I didn’t know that Scholars thinks Mark just put stories together for these stories. Seems pretty significant that there were 2 feedings
Love this teaching series, probably just nitpicky but at 18.26 "if this happenned in real life", it did happen in real life right Mike. Wouldn't point it out usually, but seem to remember a similar comment in another sermon.
It's a good thing I'm not one of those "scholars" you speak of. My brother in Christ, please carefully consider the following:
Vs 4 is a direct reference, though no reference Bible I know of points it out, to psalm 78:19.
Compare... "Then His disciples answered Him, “How can one satisfy these people with bread here in the wilderness? to “Can God prepare a table in the wilderness? That was the question the Jews tested God with there in the wilderness. Many translations properly use "wilderness" both in Mark 8:4 and Psalm 78:19.
Psalm 78 is all about Jesus speaking in parables. But Jesus not only spoke in parables, He also acted out in parables. Ps 78 speaks of the manna falling from heaven. Now the true bread from heaven was among them and most did not believe.
In Ps 78, it's prophesied that Jesus would utter sayings of old. In fact, many of the parables, if interpreted properly, show Jesus reiterating prophecies regarding Israel's destiny, I.e., the parable of the vineyard alluding back to Isaiah 5.
The rhetorical question to the disciples by Jesus in vs's 19&20 could not have possibly been answered properly by the disciples at that time. However, from our vantage point, we ought to be able to, If we understand what is going on, that is. "How is it you do not understand", Jesus asked, why the fragments (remnants) of food were placed in seven baskets and twelve baskets. What is the significance the disciples could not yet understand? "Having eyes do you not see"? He asked....a direct reference to Isaiah 6 where Isaiah was commissioned to inform Israel of her blindness God would impose on here.
Here is the answer; the baskets , importantly referenced in all four gospels, represent a remnant....specifically in Jn 6, a remnant where "none is lost". Twelve apostles thematically representing Israel, are saved (chosen) out of a blinded nation. Jesus refers specifically to those whom "none were lost" in the Gethsemane prayer. The arrest of Jesus further solidifies that the now eleven were the ones who would not be lost. These apostles represent the "remnant" of Israel from a nation about to be destroyed.
Seven baskets represent the seven thousand God preserved in Elijah's day. For this reason, Paul quotes 1 kings 19:10 in Romans 11 as he teaches that God was then saving a remnant "at that present time". Of course, the twelve baskets are the apostles themselves with Paul, one born out of due season, to follow.
While one can preach a good sermon from the two feedings of the four and five thousand as if it were a teaching on practical living, to know the true meaning of these historical accounts is a true blessing.
Wow. I would like to discuss the scriptures with you and learn.
@@gamescore1654 Lots of commenters on here want to teach and not learn. I'm always willing to discuss the scriptures in depth
If any of what you say is true I have no idea how one could know that what you say is true. If what you say is the true meaning could you explain what that true meaning actually is and how would this true meaning would affect or influence anyone
@@skyt54 There are practical ramifications involved here. For one.....what is the "remnant" of Israel? Is it non- believing Jews for the past two thousand years as Mike most likely believes along with much of the mainline church today? Or....was the remnant the Jews who placed their faith in Christ and came out of the mother of harlots before her ultimate destruction? The apostles, represented by the twelve baskets, were the remnant. Remember the scriptures...."had there not been a small remnant, they would have been like Sodom and Gomorah"
@@contemplate-Matt.G Very interesting points, and quite possibly accurate. I do question whether your comment was made about Mike's video, or other sermons you've heard about the topic as "While one can preach a good sermon from the two feedings of the four and five thousand as if it were a teaching on practical living", is definitely not what the teaching was about.
Also if we could get References for your biblical quotes that are missing them (you trailed off as you went on), it helps us repeat, and either confirm or refute your points. Specifically I am interested in "had there not been a small remnant, they would have been like Sodom and Gomorah" (or variants with 'Gomorrah') as I cannot find it by search. Further, I do not recall reading this at any point, though your quote may not be the exact phrasing, I don't really recall anything like it. AKA: I don't know where to look for it manually either.
Mark 6 “loaves” is artose (Greek) meaning “raised bread” (leavened). I believe the 5000 were fed on Passover day (Unleavened Bread is next day). I believe you are spot on CORRECT on the feeding 4000 narrative. ❤שלם עליכם
... I’m worried about shirking my bible reading and worship music time .-. But I’ve also been low key neglecting friends (partly cus been in a long term fast from games though) and I almost always get angry if a family member disrupts my reading time but maybe that just means I need to readjust for the sake of being a more loving person? I don’t know I have this sorta natural worry of making excuses for myself but I also know my anger isn’t really good =w= I’ll try to be flexible accordingly whether that’s lessening time on the weekends or trying to read earlier or just not losing it if I start reading and suddenly oh I’m being tasked with something or family needs attention.
Mike,
There is a misunderstanding about real LOVE. People even Christians think that basically the love is 1Corinthians 13 can be made manifest in our lives just because we have believed in Jesus. This kind of Love starts out very small in a christian and has to grow. The magnitude of this type of Love was demonstrated by the Father in Jesus’s death. It is a real LOVE that was felt by this the Father for all humanity and as we grow in this type of Love, we should be driven by compassion for others in an increasing fashion. This Love also gives us all the riches the Father has, patience, peace, joy, self control, etc. As a teenager I was fortunate to experience this kind of Love through the Holy Spirit and the word I have to describe this Love by is that it is glorious. This love gives us our being and our capacity to love ourselves and others, it is a spiritual feeling but it is more than emotional, it is full of wisdom also.
Matthew 14:13-21 King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus heard of it, he departed thence by ship into a desert place apart: and when the people had heard thereof, they followed him on foot out of the cities.
14 And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick.
15 And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.
16 But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.
17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.
18 He said, Bring them hither to me.
19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
20 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.
21 And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children.
If I were in a place where Jesus was healing lots of people, I would hang around as long as my schedule allowed in order to witness more of His miracles.
People don't hang around a doctor's office after they see the doctor themselves because the doctor is not healing anyone !
Yeah totally remember when prayer helped rid the Earth of polio... /S
@@JesseSelbert I attended a Jesus Festival in Pennsylvania (40,000 attended) Ever see 40,000 people singing and worshiping ?) I witnessed a series of mind-blowing healings during a baptism service at an outdoor lake there. The appeal and magnetism of seeing miracles firsthand is astounding, memorable and life- changing.
to bad God did not make the bible clearer so a people who read it understand it with out needing it explained by apologist who all have a different opinions
The Bible does say they came for the food not just the miracles showing how human nature is so we have another reason the people were with Jesus despite how wonderful it was to be in his company.
The scripture says Jesus fed 5000 men, beside women and children.
Matthew 14:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children.
Curious. Since they didn't have any food, where did the baskets come from.
17:33 All of the things you listed are logical requirements of feeding people miraculously in the first place... cmon scholars
Great lesson
After watching you, Mike, I don’t think any other Bible studies I happen to attend will do. Just sayin’.
This almost sounds dispensational? Not argumentative, just genuinely curious. Well thought out sermon. Some serious food for thought. I really needed to sit through that.
Colossians 1:25-27
[25]Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[26]Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
[27]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Hi, I was dispensational for twenty years and discovered I was wrong six years ago. Just curious...in what way do you think this sounds dispensational?
@@BillfromtheHills exactly
@@contemplate-Matt.G the inference of the distinction between the Jew and the Gentile and how Jesus moved from the Jew to the Gentile. The great mystery revealed. Regardless of the fact that the term dispensation has become a swear word among believers these days it's still what the bible teaches.
Feeding of the 5000 leaves 12 baskets (alluding to the 12 tribes of Israel) while feeding of the 4000 leaves 7 baskets (alluding to the 7 early churches to the gentiles)
Well now this makes sense.
Love is the catalyst God requires that solidifies all that you do as his servant in his eyes. You cannot be pleasing to him having one without the other. As you say, godly love is the motivating force. The result is the fruitage of the spirit applied practically in your life and toward others. This is part of what Jesus spoke to the woman at the well about,
“ God is a spirit and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth. True worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed God is looking for such like ones to worship him.”
And what is the truth? Jesus said; “ I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me.”
“One who does not love has not come to know God, for (God is love.” 1 John 4:8) Jesus personified that love and gave us the command to “love one another just as I have loved you, by this all will know that you are my true disciples if you have love among yourselves.” John 13:34,35.
Yes love is an action word and should be clearly evident for all to see.
Yes as you say Jesus first offered truth to the sheep of his fold the Jews, and later to the gentiles, after his own people rejected and murdered him. But even though his Jewish followers did not understand what Jesus was talking about at John 10:16 Jesus was indicating that he would add or graft in believing Gentiles when he said; “ and I have other sheep which are not of this fold; Those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”
"'We don't really like Mark' so..."
Um... why? Why do they not like Mark _specifically?_
I mean, Matthew affirms Jesus' _legal_ claim to the messianic title 'Son of David' while Luke affirms his bloodline claim to the same. John, to add fuel to the fire, declares the deity of Christ in no uncertain terms just one verse into his gospel! What is so controversial about Mark in comparison to _that?_
In fact, what controversial claim about Jesus is there in the Gospel of Mark _exclusively_ or even _most notably?_ I can't think of any. Mark is so blatantly uncontroversial in comparison to the other three gospel writers that it boggles the mind that he is a controversial figure _at all!_
Another masterpiece.
So, if a person refuses the mark of the beast, can't work and can't feed his family, he is worse than an unbeliever?
hmm, I think I have that same shirt...
Yes church history attests to the fact that Mark, a disciple of St Peter the apostle, wrote the gospel of Mark.
Great video
What if Paul (his message) was blind for days as a thousand years? What if all of Jesus parables were about time?
Most of the parables were actually prophecies about Israel
@@contemplate-Matt.G Wrong..
Peter Lindner: I don't understand your questions...
@@caroleimani9754 I believe you.
Peter Lindner: It wouldn't be possible (any way you think about it) for Paul to be blind for a thousand years. (Unless it was some kind of "weird miracle" and I don't think God is into "weird miracles" like that. What would be the purpose for that?)
If the story of the 4000 is separate from the story of the 5000, why would the disciples doubt the ability of Jesus to produce extra food for the 4000? After all, they had just seen Jesus feed 5000 people. So why doubt Jesus now?
Where in the text do they doubt Jesus’ ability to produce food for the 4,000?
Keep reading....right there in Mark, we see Jesus ask how many baskets the leftover food was placed in in both instances
@@MikeWinger Mark Chapter 8 verse 4 states But where in this remote place can anyone get enough bread to feed them? If the disciples had faith that Jesus could feed them, then they would have expressed that confidence to Jesus. They shouldn't have doubted that Jesus could feed the 4000 by this point.
@@speedlearnerNot being snarky at all here, but Is there a particular reason why you assume that it was not a rhetorical question being asked of Christ?
It could have been ment as a polite way of asking him to do what he did before, or even as an inside joke among friends.
I assume that Christ and his disciples shared a laugh every now and again.
@@ericfisher1360 That would be nice if you could prove your point. Can you?
It makes me wonder if the majority are wrong, what else are they wrong about?
A majority of people who dont believe the bible is the inspired authoritative word of God wrong? Who would have thought?
Interesting that Dalmanutha means a bucket (or basket perhaps?)
The prioritize the spiritual, can lead to stuff like only helping people that is likely to convert and Jesus teach us again that to the level of performing miracles on people he knew will not do so. The help is free so we become like our father in heaven. Clearly it's more important for someone to be save that to have a nice life, or dead for that matter, but we don't know who is going to accept the gospel. By the way there is a difference between important and urgent. With that understanding and the idea that we help people *for free* because we love them and we desire to become like our father in heaven that make the sun shine over just and evil then we can act in a goodly fashion with the help of the spirit. Clearly forgetting about the spiritual needs of the people will be equally wrong.
Mike, the first time I've turned you off - at 20 minutes. I agreed with you at that time. Yes, of course, some things are done the same way. And what a waste of time to debate this issue, for even less than 20 minutes, much less. Otherwise, you are still a cool cat.
Overall, I find Mike's teaching to be invaluable.
@@pianolab9316 Yes, as far as I can tell. This subject matter, the controversy among biblical scholars, just didn't strike me as important or worthy of a long lecture. Otherwise, as I said, Mike's teaching is informative and worth the time to listen.
@@Redo12able Oh ok I misunderstood the word "invaluable", english is not my language, i'm sorry for that.
I thought: invaluable = not valuable, no value
@@pianolab9316 English can be confusing. No worries.
Yes! I am sure Jesus had a podium just like Mike and taught the crowd for three days...lol.
Lol I should've waited until you were done lol
ということは、4000人の給食の奇跡は、マリアとマルタのエピソードのポイントとパラレルということですね。
The crowd knew Jesus was THE Messiah and didn't want to leave him, no matter what problems there were, wishing to listen to The Christ teaching.
Above all, the people started to feel Jesus was the love itself, manifestation of unseen LORD full of mercy and compassion. They knew Jesus was far more than the messiah they were taught to await for long.
Sooooo good x
Can you review Dawna DeSilva’s book Sozo and Shifting Atmosphere? She says we are affected by spirits and demons. She constantly asks God how the atmosphere in a room is. If one complied with the negative atmosphere they should ask for forgiveness and ask God to release the right atmosphere.
JimmytheFUR Is this Christianity or The Twilight Zone? It's the beserk fruit of charismania. Been there, done that, recognize it.
How do you "comply with the negative atmosphere?" This sounds like looking for demons on doorknobs. I agree that it sounds like The Twilight Zone. It sounds like Kat Kerr. (If you have never heard of her, don't bother.)This kind of thing gives Moderate Charismatics a bad name.
I don't know who Dawna DaSilva is, but it sounds like she is giving more attention to "devils and demons" than Jesus.
Thank you.
The feeding of the 4,000 and 5,000 prefigure something much greater, his telling the crowds, the Jewish authorities, and the apostles that he will feed them with HIM, with his resurrected Body and Blood, true heavenly food. "This is My Body." It's a means for us to receive his grace. Christ IS the Lamb of God, and just like the OT Passover Lamb, one had to eat the lamb. This is why the early Christians were accused of being cannibals. They were accused of eating their Christ. And it's why the the crowds left him (Jn 6) after hearing his words and why the Jewish religious authorities after hearing him speak wanted to kill him (Jn 7, para 1). They all took him literally, not figuratively or symbolically. The Israelites were waiting for a new Moses, a new Exodus. And just like the first exodus they expected true heavenly bread (manna) to return in the second exodus. Christ leads us on the new exodus to our heavenly promise land, and while we journey, we eat the Lamb of God. True heavenly food for the journey, his Grace.
One of the few good posts on here. If I may add to your thoughts....most of the Jews rejected Him while the "remnant" was being saved. This is why Jesus asks His disciples in Mark 8 if they understand why the fragments (remnants) of bread were placed in seven baskets and twelve baskets. This speaks of the remnant of Israel; twelve baskets representing the apostles, and the saving of the seven thousand in Elijah's time who God spared when Elijah thought he was the only one left.
The baskets, importantly referenced in all four gospels, represent a remnant....specifically in Jn 6, a remnant where "none is lost". Twelve apostles thematically representing Israel, are saved (chosen) out of a blinded nation. Jesus refers specifically to those whom "none were lost" in the Gethsemane prayer. The arrest of Jesus further solidifies that the now eleven were the ones who would not be lost. These apostles represent the "remnant" of Israel from a nation about to be destroyed.
The apostles did not know the answer at the time because they didn't know the mystery yet to be revealed to Paul that Jew and Gentile would e co-heirs and of the same body. They still expected an Earthly kingdom restored to Israel.
@Asaph Vapor Thanks for that lengthy reply. There's no need to be wary though, thanks for the concern. Scripture backs up what I'm saying about the "remnant" being the twelve. Start with Isaiah 6. There, God commissions Isaiah to tell Israel they will have a spirit of stupor. Isaiah 6, is quoted in the gospels and the epistles multiple times. So Jesus constantly states, those who have ears to hear, let them hear. John says about the Jews "therefore they could not believe for what Isaiah said".
Now Jn 6 is a reenactment of when the manna fell in the wilderness. There the children of Israel grumbled and God rained down manna. This is the first Sabbath for them as they were told to gather for six days and then rest. Of course, Jesus became the Sabbath rest for the true people of God. But there in Jn 6, as the Jews of the day also grumbled at the true bread that came down, Jesus told the Jews that of all those the Father would give to him, He would "lose none". Lose none? Isn't that what Jesus said about the fragments of bread placed in the twelve baskets? "Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost".
So who were the ones the Father gave to Jesus of whom none would be lost? They would be the apostles. Read the prayer of Jesus in the garden at the very end of His ministry...
Jhn 17 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Then at Jesus' arrest, He further confirms who was "given" to Him
Jhn 18 9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none
So the apostles, chosen from a blinded nation, none were lost save Judas who would eventually be replaced by Paul, one born out of due season. None were lost just as Jesus said about the bread placed in twelve baskets.
You should remember that Paul quotes other Isaiah passages regarding the remnant of Israel saved before her destruction. "Though the descendants of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant will be saved" and "had there not been a very small remnant, Israel would have become like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Therefore, the twelve apostles, were represented by the twelve baskets where the remnants of food were placed
@Asaph Vapor The 7000 that hadn't bowed the knee to Baal.....they were considered a "remnant". Remember, Elijah thought he was the only one left
Rom 11 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
So these "elect" obtained something the rest of the nation didn't. The "elect" or "chosen" were the apostles. "Aren't you the twelve whom I have chosen?"
@Asaph Vapor Sorry but I've used scripture to back up scripture,,,,quite different than most. No danger here anyhow. Israel had a remnant. Just a question now of who they were. I've given ample evidence. LOL
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:28 KJV
Jesus lives
Jesus Christ is Lord
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:23 KJV
Jesus loves you repent
You're a sinner in need of a Savior
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10 KJV
Very good.