Why you should NOT 3pt mount a backhoe - TMT
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- Опубліковано 14 лют 2018
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Great video. I'm sure alot of people didn't realize this. Keep up the great info.
THIS VIDEO NEEDED TO BE MADE! just wish I had made it. I did do one on stressing your backhoe. to show where they typically crack and fail when to much side to side pressure is applied.
daveknowshow link to your vid?
I couldn’t take this video serious anymore after the 2:50 mark 😂🤣
2:52 "You can't just take a ho and slap it"
Good advice.
Not unless you want to go to jail.
Gold my friend.... gold
Priceless quote, especially coming from a tractor salesmen 👨💼
Lol
LMAO
For a new comer like myself this was a video worth while watching
Keep it up please
I installed a New Holland 752c 3 pt backhoe onto my New Holland TD45A tractor and it came with about 8' of double box channel frame attached that attaches to my tractor frame with large pins, so it seems solid. Been using it for 8 years with no issues.
I use a 3pt backhoe on my compact tractor, but I don't dart around the property like a unhinged half wit. Same is true when I am moving gravel or sand with the loader. But considering how people drive these days, I can see how it could be a problem for a lot of people.
How about the more reputable attachment manufacturers like Woods and staying well within their recommended sizing specs?
You always give good advice Neil.
We got a 3pt hitch mounted backhoe and nothing has happened yet by the way we had it on the same tractor for at least 4 yrs
But I see where your coming from 👍👍👍
I have a woods ground breaker on my Kubota 3130 with the 3 point, been installed since 2006. I just removed it to use my new post hole auger. There was a lot of wear on the center pin, need a new one but other than that no problems. I have a little over 200 hours of digging out stumps on it. Definitely a good setup that I would recommend to any home owner type user.
What model Woods?
If you are going to be a bit rough it’s best to have the under-stays anyway. I’ve seen the bell housing bolts stretch from a bad recovery where they didn’t unhook the trailer first.
what would your opinion be mounting a backhoe on a 1998 John deer 770 do you think it would be Able to get one on the three point?
With my B7300 I went with the subframe, but my backhoe is still 3pt and the subframe is not removable.
I put a 6’ 3 point hoe on my JD4120 because it’s was cheaper than a frame mount. I quickly learned why it was so cheap. I ended up digging 30’ of a 100’+ trench for drainage and stopped. It was jerking my Tractor...and me....around like a rag doll. I’m saving up for a real backhoe attachment from John Deere.
You get what you pay for!!
Thanks for this info.
I haven,t seen any problems with a 3 joint coupled backhoe. I have this machinery, but when i use it it,s all aboud setting the support legs on the ground! And when you are moving arround with it do it slowly! No rush! I,m even planning to build a wheeled dolly for the boom to take some stress of the chassis when moving arround.
There are a lot of ways to break the tractor in half...
Go too fast with a full loader and hit a pothole. A friend did that with a modern utility tractor.
The 3 point mounted backhoes worked fine for over 50 years.
You just have to NOT put excess load on the tractor.
The frame mount backhoes double up the frame to deal with the people who abuse the machine.
You can also get a drag-behind backhoe, usually they are self powered and small and cost less than either the frame mount or 3 point backhoe.
I call this winning if it is all the backhoe you need.
Got any part numbers for the addons
My back He is a 762H bush hog backhoe that fits on my three-point hitch. The extended arm on my back out is very slow but it retracts fine just trying to figure out what is the problem with my arm that extends very slow. Any suggestions while that might be happening if so let me know. Thanks
i got a 1985 massey ferguson 1040 think it could handle a backhoe attachment ?
can you put this on a bx1880??
If you have to bolt extra stuff on your machine to keep it from breaking in half its not really a tractor.
It is still a tractor by definition.
Not all tractors are designed for all attachments!
Some people feel that if the tractor has a front seat and a back seat then it's not a real backhoe!
It is a tractor with a backhoe attachment!
Not the best tractor for digging.
A real backhoe has one seat that rotates 180°.
And the entire tractor is built for that extra stress and weight.
Other people feel that TLBs (tractor loader backhoes) do a little bit of several different things but they are not very good at any of them!
And it's better to use the right machine for the right job!
Excavators are the best machine by far for digging.
Was thinking of getting a self contained backhoe to put on my JD 1026. What you said in this video made sense will get a tow behind instead that's all I really need. Thanks for your insight.
I'm afraid there's no such thing as a self-contained backhoe that would be an add-on to a tractor unless it had its own engine, hydraulic pump and oil tank. And that would add a lot of unnecessary weight behind the back axle of the tractor.
Go with the B or L series if your looking to do Kubota backhoe work.I mean the commercial series.There tough.B 21,B26 L35 L 45.And they come with a factory 3 pt kit.
I have a 3 point back hoe for my L series kubota ….used it a few times to dig a trench and remove a small stump! Didn’t seem real hard on the tractor ! Would an L series frame be stout enough to handle a 3 point?
I have an L5740 machine with a kubota backhoe. It has poor digging capability. Is there anything to make it stronger? I hate to buy a separate mini excavator
I think you can have problems with other 3 point equipment also if it isnt sized properly to the tractor. If its sized correctly and used properly, shouldnt be a problem.
I'd say the same. I got a tractor from 1971, it has around 50HP and has seen much abuse from the previous owner. From ploughing to cultivating this tractor did pretty much everything without breaking to pieces and on top of all it worked 15500 hours.
I just custom made a subframe for my backhoe. When it was on the 3 point hitch it was too low and too far away from the rear. Making a subframe is simple if you take your time and measure correctly. You should know how to fabricate and weld, that comes in handy also.
I've been using a 3 point mounded backhoe on my Yanmar 1610D for years and have not broke any thing and some of the stumps have been up to 2 foot across. You have to know and understand your equipment or stay off them!
what type backhoe did you mount
It came with the tractor but it was built locally along with the front bucket.
He went through that entire script with a straight face. This video is hilarious
I have a IH 300 utility with a fast hitch. I can hook the backhoe up in less than two minutes hydraulics and all. It has a 12 foot reach. If you can't hang a backhoe off your three point without breaking something the backhoe is too big or your tractor is too small. This is the problem with allot of these compact tractors they make them look bigger with sheet metal and plastic.
I did use a three point hitch backhoe on my farm for 16 years but we put it on a 70 hp John Deere 3020. They are very stout, I still use the 1971 3020 my dad bought new. In 1987 we got a Deere 510 backhoe which is built on a 3020 frame. The whole thing weighs 20,000 lb. It is unbreakable, I know because I have tried.
Personally, I lay it on the dealers to sell the best combination of equipment for the size of the tractor. Too many dealers are after the sale only and don’t care what happens later, especially those who specialize in compact tractors.
So my 84 750 should be ok with a 650lb Kelley #20
I understand with compact Kubota tractors shouldn't have a 3 point linkage mounted backhoe. But would it be Ok to mount one on an older (1950/60) Ferguson TED20 (no loader) or Massey Ferguson 35 (loader)?
One more thing, would it be ok to mount a backhoe on the 3pt of a Massey Ferguson 390 (80hp with a loader)?
Many Thanks Oliver
Wrangler compact tractors are fine to mount a backhoe as long as you mount a subframe with it. Hes says this in the video.
Good video, excellent advice!
For all the haters i read on here, it isn't a matter of the tractor being made strong enough. This is basic physics and mechanics. Even if the backhoe is sized right, IT WILL BREAK YOUR TRACTOR IN HALF eventually. Most likely at the torque tube to transmission flange.
That backhoe attachment is a giant torque wrench powered in the thousands of pounds range.
Wow! I think that is what recently happened to my Kubota B2910. Snapped the transmission casing apart. Is the new Kubota L3901 with BH77 backhoe up to your recommended specifications for strength?
This really has little to do with the tractor, 3pt backhoes can be a problem on all of them. The BH77 does have a proper subframe.
I've seen a tractor split in the middle. He brought two bales of silage on the back and one on the front
Really, surely that depends the weight of a tractor i.e. a heavier tractor will have a stronger frame reducing the Risk of damage.
Charlie Smythe it was landini tractor 4 wheel drive not the lightest not the heaviest either. Tractor was completely destroyed. Our john Deere was in better condition after it crashed and turned up side down.
For several years I ran a 7' Kubota 3pt hitch backhoe on a tiny JD650 compact utility and no problem. Did not have FEL, just suite case weights. And that model had very strong cast steel engine to tranny to final to axles and not a framed body like used today. It was a real digger too. Should have kept it.
yea, that's pretty much the exact kind of configuration we would discourage.
This guy has great videos wish this one was longer.
I just bought a 2015 M5 because of your videos, what backhoe would you recommend for my unit?
You can 3pt on that tractor. Bradco usually. 511 or 611
You guys are the best
so if you use the outriggers properly why would any of this be an issue?
as i am doing looking for under 1200 lb backhoe.
Can the MX 5400 handle a small 3 point backhoe. Now one has anything in stock. It is a woodmax 8600
Woodmax is an awful Chinese backhoe. Made as cheaply as possible, we replaced all the hydraulic hoses on one a few years ago.
Good video. I was looking at a bl 4572 3pt backhoe to put on a l245 that does not have an fel and just seeing the subframe needed on a small tractor like these has me hesitant to even play the build a subframe game. I'd really like a backhoe on my old tractor but don't want to snap wally in half after 30ish years of faithful service.
I have a BX2380. I seriously considered getting a BX23s, but the price difference was substantial. I wasn't sure how much I'd use the hoe, so went with the cheaper tractor. Two years later, I'm realizing how many uses I would have had for the hoe. My question is this. Is there a way to retrofit a BX2380 with the backhoe subframe and backhoe attachment? Or is my only option to trade in the 2380 on a 23s?
Trade it. It's not hateful.
Depends on Tractor Frame. Agree with Dylan Dembrow. If your needing to run at max rpm's to use the hydraulics of the hoe. Your Over sized for the tractor! A Sub frame is only needed if your machine is sub standard.
Thanks. Saved me and my 32hp Kubota some agony.
I've used a Taylor Way 3 point backhoe on my 40 hp Branson tractor for 10 years now and haven't broken anything. I probably wouldn't use it on my 25 hp Ford.
I have a 2016 Mahindra 2555CL, and inherited a 1998 Woods BH7500-1. The name plate of the BH says mass: 377KG... That puts it at about 831lbs. I've only used it for minor trenching and small stump removal. The ground breaking rating for the hoe is about 3300 lbs - which is small by most BH standards. Would you still be concerned about the 3PH method on this combination?
Yea. Its an issue. Woods is generally really good about having subframes available for their older backhoes. I've sold the 7500, its well supported... however I'm not sure what they would have for Mahindra. I think that tractor is mostly a mitsubishi, so you might get lucky.
Interesting. About the time I saw your video, I sent an email to Woods with the details of my tractor and the hoe. Here is their reply:
"There is not a subframe mount available for the Mahindra 2555. The tractor will support the backhoe on the 3pt hitch as long as the backhoe is equipped with the appropriate 3pt mounting kit. Attached is a manual for the 3pt hitch kit for the BH7500."
Turns out, the BH has 'appropriate' kit - which is a diagonal brace that connects from the tractor side of the top link mount to the BH side of each of the draw pins. It basically locks the geometry of the 3PH so that they cannot move.
Yea... that will keep it from slopping around on the 3pt hitch and is an improvement, but that's not where the tractor typically breaks. The weak point is still the housing between the loader and rear axle. I would not tell you not to run it, I'd just hesitate to say.. pick up the rear wheels with the dipper and drop the tractor.
Is a koboata 4900 indust. Strong enough without the extra bracket
So if you don't have a loader on the front would that lessen the chance of the tractor breaking
It causes a balance problem. You can't have a backhoe with without a loader.
Yeah but i know several companies that make small backhoes meant for sub compacts that only weigh 500-600# if it cant handle that much weight then idk wth anyone would by it.
How about breaking the top link casting.
Seen it.
Happens. Some older backhoes had support brackets for that.
I have a Mahindra 4025 tractor........41 HP. Thinking of purchasing a WoodMax 7600 3-point backhoe attachment. According to their backhoe specs, weighs around 775 lbs. Would this attachment on this tractor be a problem?
I certainly would not encourage it.
@@MessicksEquip Thanks. Actually....I was mistaken....the backhoe unit weighs right at 1000 lbs.
If you have to run your backhoe at full power, your tractor is too small. You should be able to do everything you need to do at low to mid idle (1500-2000RPM) without any issues, and that will keep you from overstressing components, you don't need that subframe. A solid top-link, and good judgement will prevail. 1982 Ford 1900 with woods backhoe, dug many foundations, drain fields, I run it about 1700 RPM, slow and steady wins the race.
Right on! I have a Kioti DK40 with subframe mount and still only dig at 1700 rpm! as you said slow and steady wins the race!
It all common sense and trying to dig fast a furious will break "something" every time!! Borrowed my neighbors front end loader backhoe and blew a hose with fast and furious...lesson learned. Thankfully it was an easy fix.
yea, that sounds right ............wb
Can you do a skid steer lifting power video? Thanks! (Either way 😃)
Give more details?
Messick Farm Equipment like what it all means exactly and how it translates in real world use. I’m never too sure if a skid loader can lift 5200 lbs or if it just tips there etc. I have operated plenty, yet when demoing I really don’t know which machine size is suitable for our operation, thank you so much for replying!
Gotcha. You're talking about the difference between lift capacity and rated operating capacity. I can do that.
Confused Petey
If you want to have a small backhoe that can easily come off... get the Harbor Freight self powered one. Tow it out with the tractor, disconnect, do the work. You won't break your tractor.
I think they are just looking for ways to sell you sub frames. to offset that buy a tractor at least 65HP above that should solve the problem. I have M6800 and never have any problem. Most important is the to peer same weight capacity from backhoe to your tractor, always check your spec.
Neal , or it Neil? I love these 3 minute Thursdays. don't ever quit making them. I learn something every time.
It's Neil. Thats awesome!
On a sub compact or compact.. no way. On a full size... it works. We had a JD4020 with a smaller woods backhoe on it for years. never had a problem.
Have a 1964 Ford Industrial 2000 with loader. Have small Davis 3 point backhoe and 1 ft bucket. No problem
Hi Kubota People. Question: If I buy a Kubota with backhoe and proper backhoe sub-frame mount, what happens when I want to take off the backhoe and use my other implements?
Take the backhoe off, put the hitch back on. Takes 5-10 minutes
Cool. Thank you
Your videos are top notch, but on this I have to dissagree. I have bought two new Kubotas over the last 20 years or so, both have had backhoes and both were subframed. Never have had a problem and they are awesome for what they are designed for. I have operated a lot of equipment in my 70 years and the Kubotas have been the best by far (going back to the 50's on a JD B).
And BTW, I can remove my BH in about 5 min and reinstall it in about 7 (B7800HST 30HP) if done right, 3pt BHs are a very functional way to go. JMO
67 Ford 3000,. Would that tractor work?
With an older backhoe, yes.
one other you left out many do, older tractors! like an old ford 9N from the 50s.. 3 point is the only option
If you have a tiny tractor it might be an issue but with any tractor 45-50 hp and up I can't see it being an issue.
Add to that, most people really don't know the proper use of a backhoe. They will junk a proper backhoe right quick.
You mean Ho'ing around?
For 95% of my digging needs the stump bucket is really good. For that 5% where I really need a digger, the backhoe still kind of sucks because it's stationary period better to rent a mini excavator.
Anyone ever use a skidsteer style front mounted backhoe on a compact tractor?
Horrible idea. Boom would never hold up
I have a three point backhoe (B4672) that mounts to a Kubota B7500. Never had a problem. Granted, I don't beat the thing to death, and I use the outriggers religiously.
that backhoe also has a stiffening kit that specifically helps protect against damage.
My tractor is rated at 4000 lbs on the 3 point and 2500 on the front loader
3pt capacity has nothing to do with being able to run a backhoe back there.
The owner's manual for my Massey 1736 specifically states that adding a 3 point backhoe will void the warranty. I imagine there is a good reason for that. I have a matching Massey backhoe that is subframe mounted. I like that the subframe stays with the tractor, so even when I'm not using the hoe, the tractor is beefed up by the subframe. I also lost a good friend several years ago when the top link failed on his 3 point backhoe and he was crushed between the backhoe and the tractor. Breaking a tractor would be nothing compared to losing your life with it. DON'T RISK IT!
This would not be an issue if tractors were built like the older ones. Back when the engines and transmissions we're iron and thick and heavy. Now tractors are overbuilt lawnmowers with attachments.
This happens just as frequently with older tractors. Infact, maybe more frequently because you can't get a subframe for older machines. This is driven more by the power of a modern backhoe than anything else.
jay s Well stated I agree
Put compact in video description
Know a guy with 4hours on his NH workmates compact. Diveshaft threw a snap ring and cracked his Trans case. Over a month down. NH should have said SORRY, with 4 hours....here is a new one
Unfortunately, size matters. Putting a backhoe on a glorified lawn mower is a bad idea. For $8-$10k go get an old 580 or 555 and actually do some work without ruining your compact tractor. My 580E is too small at times......
Why isn't there any backhoes made now that will dig 10" for tractors?? (other than the $200,000. commercial ones??) I had a mid size Massy Ferguson Probably made in the 80's some where between 28-32HP I bought used and the guy said it would dig 10' so I took it to my property and it dug 10'11" hole easy and was great until I had to go in the hospital and someone came and stole everything off my property including my tractor... Now I still need a Tractor, but can't find one that can dig 10+ft... I haven't decided whether or not I'm going to put in 2 1000gal tanks or 1 2000gal, but I need to dig at least 4 feet below the frost line of 4 ft so I need to dig like 2 ft under that to put in the crushed rock and then sand to place the tank on... So if you know of someone that makes a backhoe to fit on a tractor and can be removed easy so I can put other things on it... Please let me know... If there a backhoe maker out there, PLEASE START TO MAKE THEM!!! I don't want to have to get a 100HP tractor I need something I can trailer...
I don’t know what all the fuss is about....every man should know that it’s just plain more simple not to take a hoe home With you for good.....just pay to rent one from time to time when the need arises.
yes, its often cheaper to rent.
And by the time we figure that out its usually too late.
a wise thing to add to your common sense category
thats why i love old tractors, you need none of that bullshit, you can put 3 tons on the rear and then lift a ton with your front loader - and then pull a wheelie and it just endures it with no problem
Only on subs....on big tractors don't sweat it
WHEN ARE YOU GETTING A SIDE KICK!!!! I NEED INFO!!!! AHHHHHH
Pretty excited myself. I have a long list of fun videos I can do.
At 2:53, "you can't just take a hoe and slap it".
Tractor engineers will eventually figure it out and build tractors with a universal frame that comes on the tractor and supports backhoes and front snow blowers!! It could actually be the frame for the tractor and not cost all that much to build. I remember back in the day full-size backhoes had no frame, built like a farm tractor. Then a smart engineer put a frame under a backhoe and Viola the modern backhoe was born. We need a new generation of utility tractors!!!! NUFF SAID.
I am sorry I bought a NH 75hp
So many jokes here 😂🤣
Our backhoe is 5000 lbs
what he didn't say was some people can cross tread a steel ball ,and he sales $50.000 backhoes
I take it this vid is for those small compact twactor.
Slapping holes from one Tractor to the next😅
I'm just going to stop buy NH CASE OR LS and measure one of these up and make mine out of heavy wall pipe. I think I have plenty laying around cut two slots in the ends of it and weld it to brackets made for the loader plates and use grade eight hardware, welder, rose bud presto and Brilliant blue paint. I've been looking at these and they aren't complicated, and it will stiffen the tractor. If I buy a three point backhoe I will just hook it to three point quick connect and raise it and bolt some 1/2'' plates on to connect it to loader and let the three point helpers hang on backhoe attachment permanent, it wont have any play when attached but make it a whole lot easier to wrestle with, than these things these so called engineers have made for us.
There is a reason Kubota, John Deere, Mahindra, LS and every other compact and sub compact tractor brand doesn't make 3 point backhoes . Save a couple thousand on a backhoe and ruin a $20,000 machine doesn't seem to cost efficient. It's not just the weight of the backhoe it's the pressure of side to side and digging which is what can and will break things. Would you throw a 9ft snow plow on your ford f-150? Or pull a 10,000lb trailer with that
f-150? It will probably getting it moving but first time you need to stop or hit a small hill the transmission and brakes just can't handle it.
@
3 point backhoes have been around for years. If operated correctly they work just fine. I have personally had one for over 15 years. Seems to be the tractor manufacturers are build tractors way too cheap now. Compare tractor weights from a tractor 20 years ago and one of comparable size from today and you'll see what I mean. You can't even pick up a bucket of snow without lifting the back tires off the ground with today's tractors
You're right, but that's not because the tractors have gotten lighter. It's because the loader capacities have gone up significantly.
@@MessicksEquip Respectfully disagree. Look at 50hp modern tractors, even with 4wd, they are way lighter. My MF255 axles and frame are thick. Tractor weighs in at 6400lbs without loader. I'm seeing modern 50hp tractors at 3000lbs. Where is all the weight cut from? I suspect a little from everywhere, including the frame/case.
@@kyoshojoe5903 your comparing machines for different applications. Today we have a vastly wider array of tractors that made that are for different applications like mowing, haying, etc, where a big heavy tractor is not desirable. If you jump into the series made for tasks like that old Massy (Kubota M, New Holland T4) you'll find base weights in the same range.
Lol nice photoshop thumbnail.
biggest 3 point hitch on smallest 3 Point tractor... that thing is for a full size tractor.
FishFind3000 if it has a 3 point hitch it will fit! I won't say everyone will do it, but like he said, I am sure a hand full of people who aren't tractor people will try it and cause damage.
Ryan ..
No, it would be cat 1 at that size.
Messick Farm Equipment wow it looked a lot bigger than it is being beside a bx I think. Probably for a grand L 60 type thing
saying that the backhoe weighing a lot is a problem is like telling me I shouldn't put a ballast box on when using the front end loader
Ballast boxes are usually about 500 lb. Backhoes are a thousand to 1500 lb. Plus will hydraulically tossed your tractor around while using them. Vastly different.
yeah, the getting tossed around, my ballast box for my 4510 weighs a looooott which is why I made the comparison. Thanks for the clarification
Plenty of tractors have split in two exactly because they had large ballast on the back while doing heavy loader work. This is why for heavy loader work either get an actual loader, or at least a tractor with an independent frame.
I’ll keep our Case 580K backhoe.
Very fond of having a hole in my tractor😂