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Need Paul back. MT is NOT great. A lot of us watch Heavy Spoilers and Screen Crush and avoid New Rockstars. Totally jarring and unentertaining to have them pop up here and be so cringe
The ‘truth is far more awful’ because of the sheer number of witches’ souls that Agatha traded to Death in order to buy that time with her son - she didn’t trade 1 soul for the power of the darkhold, she traded a vast number of souls to buy more time with the 1 she cared about. Who knows how many witches like the 3 who died one the road, each with their own hopes and dreams, were deliberately murdered by Agatha during those 6 years (and afterwards during her rampage)?
I like that Agatha began a villain and essentially stayed as a villain throughout the series. Not the normal redemption arcs used to water down villains in other projects. Agatha might have some affection for Billy but that’s it.
Yup. Pretty sure the only reason that Billy survived is because he reminded her of her son. And because, like her son, he saw the potential for good in her.
But Agatha really isn't a villain and she definitely isn't a hero. Her motivations are honestly pretty complicated and follow an ethic informed by her circumstance and history. I hope they explore this more in the next series.
Yep. I want to say sympathetic villain but she has shown selfishness throughout the entire show. She’s murdered her own coven multiple times and only spares Billy because he reminds her of Her dead son.
I think the truth that's more awful is that Agatha used a loving song between her and her son as a way of tricking and killing witches despite knowing her son didnt want her doing so
It’s funny how they write the show so well that we feel empathy for Agatha as a mother, meanwhile she’s using her son for murder schemes the whole time he’s alive lmao
Death literally told her that she would have limited time with her son, she was killing all of those witches to keep Death happy and buy more time with her son: at least while he was alive.
I think it was literally the only way she was actually able to keep him alive. Because as soon as they passed on “absorbing” a witch, Rio “took” Nicholas. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think that was some unspoken condition that Rio had. Definitely understandable if so. Definitely.
Ilove that when Agatha was fighting Rio she did everything she learned from the road (and her coven) protecting with salt, using water to sure, absorbing power but not killing billy, predicting when río yelled coward, and the finally sacrificing her life
I read the real tragedies as 1.) Death gave Nicky more time as long as he helped Agatha give Death bodies. As soon as that stopped, Death collected Nicky. Then 2.) Agatha kept giving Death bodies to delay her own death, so she wouldn’t have to be confronted with the shame of all that killing. So the truth that was more terrible than the Darkhold trade was that, knowingly or not, Agatha had killed hundreds (thousands?) of witches to give her son a few more years and delay her shame for centuries.
That doesn’t make since because Lilia and Jen are also hundreds of years old without the need for murdering their sisters. Jen went 100+ years with no powers and still looks 30 something
For point 2, Agatha kept killing because that was her way to deal with the d€ath of her child: anger. It wasn't to prolong her life imo. She never trusted other witches especially after her first coven betrayal.
I don't think that was the deal with Nicky. I think he was supposed to die at birth and Death gave him a specific amount of more time because her and Agatha had a relationship. Agatha's power of killing witches and taking their power had nothing to do with it. She would have been doing that regardless.
@@RonAbernathy27 Yes, the implication is that witches are inherently long lived, even without their magic. Agatha stealing witches' power isn't directly related to her longevity. (Also, worth noting that she's at least 80 or so when Nicky is born)
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that Nicolas was crying in hunger before Agatha entered the witches circle and fed on their magic. He stopped immediately after. And he died the same night he and Agatha didn't kill witches. She was using the lives of these witches to prolong his life, at least in part(maybe death left him alone as long as she got her bodies), and after he died she started doing it purely selfishly.
@ThePlayTyperGuy my personal theory is that she was originally acting out if a mother desperation to keep her son. After he died she started taking life selfishly to avoid Rio. She said she let people believe she traded her son for the Darkhold because the truth was too awful. The truth was she traded hundreds of lives for her son and he was the one to choose to end it. Even if he didn't understand the consequences of his actions he still chose to go with death in the end.
it was the 1700's, i think nicky just died from an illness. agatha told him she couldn't cure him, protect him, or divine when death would be back to claim him, because that's not what her magic was about. all the things that a coven could have done for her. her choice to be a lone witch is partially why he died. i also think death knew he would fall ill and die in six year if she didn't claim him as a baby, and that's why she was able to give agatha some time. and i see agatha as using her child as bait to kill witches since he was a baby, until his death, and beyond that for centuries with the song he initially created, even though she clearly loved him. i wonder if that's one of the reasons she can't face his soul in the afterlife.
“Why is that more awful” has been rolling around in my head all night. I think it’s because she was powerless to save him. For Agatha, feeling powerless is the worst thing she can possibly imagine. She is so afraid of being powerless that she would rather be evil.
That may have something to do with it, but I think that her truth is more awful because she used an innocent song that she created with her son who didn’t want to kill any more witches to continue to trick and kill witches after his death
Agatha would rather have people think she was evil and trade her son for power than she didn't have enough power to save him. Especially as power is her whole thing. Also, her son dying naturally would have limited the power of the road being able to give you the thing you want the most and she wouldn't have been able to fool as many witches a lot of whom I assume wanted back a loved one.
@@kellyflanagan3537She loved Death and yet couldn't save her son from dying. She got time, but not enough time. The truth that's so terrible is that she turned his death into a con to get more power.
SPOILERS: When Agatha was going from town to town and killing witches, was that to appease death? The one day Nicholas didn't do it, was when death took him. Were they related?
Everything in this video and this thread is a spoiler. And I'm guessing she just had to kill enough to keep Death away, not necessarily every day. That would be A LOT of witches and a lot of deaths over 6 years if it was every single day.
I understood it as Agatha’s choice that brought Death. Agatha was okay with not killing any witches because Nicky wanted her to stop. It wasn’t the missed day. It was Agatha’s potential to change if Nicky wanted her to change. That caused Death to collect Nicky and spur Agatha into creating more bodies.
I thought this too, when she asked for more time and I thought Death would agree if she kept bringing bodies, but Nick was already looking sickly and randomly coughing towards his end. I think it was just coincidence. They would have made some sort of blatant reference, if that were true.
That's what I personally thought. Death waited until Agatha let her son's personal wish for peace overridde her own thirst for murder, then took him. Pretty low. But then again Death had been waiting and maybe also decided that enough was enough.
Loved Agatah's sacrifice, so beautiful, her finally doing something good and save billy when she couldn't save Nicky. Dunno if anyone else thought this, but the flowers, fungi, pants Rio creates for Agatha's grave was so touching, shows how much love Rio has for Agatha still.
I’m always wrapped up in the internet discussions of my favorite shows as they air, I didn’t see anyone call the twist w the ballad, that Agatha and her son wrote it to lure unsuspecting witches etc. That was so wild and clever
On those same boards, did anyone predict that Billy created this road? Not just the fact that the road had a lot of things from his bedroom, but the fact that there was no witches' road ever before him? That was a neat twist. The fact that he created it while running away from the cicada witch monster in the same way Wanda did while dealing with her grief? Chef's kiss.
Only Exquisite Echidna predicted that billy created the road and that agatha made it up, genius. Even tho I was still surprised, I wish I didnt know before (Video title: PROOF agatha CREATED the witches road legend)
I have a friend who worked on the show and they said that the sink thrown at agatha was ACTUALLY PRACTICAL and NOT GCI! Loved this show and LOVED the MT breakdowns!
9:23 Hear me out. Agatha is a liar, she’s almost always putting on a performance so she can get what she wants. I don’t think she did bound Jen, I think she was taunting her. Because she had realized that Jen bound herself (which is why the spell felt like it went on for a little long) and on that last “You hold nothing” Jen realized it too. She was too busy revealing in her powers and was gone before this could be resolved.
I think the 'truth is too awful' was as I understood that Agatha had started to kill witches for Nick to stay alive so Rio would have 'her bodies' because the only day they didn't do it, was the day Nick died
Also, Agatha might not have wanted to appear vulnerable and powerless. She preferred the narrative that she was callous but fully in control. She's not like Wanda, who always felt the need to justify the harm she inflicted.
Love the fact that Agatha had always been evil even in death. But her son and Billy was her only soft spot!!!!! Even in Wandavision, her relationship with Billy and Tommy was mutual. They've embraced Agatha's decisions!!!!!
Theory: at the end of episode 5, Billy didn't try to kill the 3 remaining witche. He was subconsciously sending them off the road back to Westview, because the exit (the subway) was undergound. This was just have he after he argued that he wouldn't sacrifice others to achieve his witchy goals. He was probably subconsciously feeling guilty for Allison's death too, with some lowly awareness he created the road, in that moment.
Something to keep in mind: Mrs. Davis/Hart mentioned Westview's failed attempt at making a subway in episode 2. Likewise, the subway we see beneath the road in episode 7. It looks like Billy didn't so much as create the Road as he twisted what was already there into the Road.
Given that mention of the subway and the later sight of the subway station, I would agree that Billy likely used the framework of the defunct subway system to create his road, all unconsciously. So it was "Billy All Along" in the making of the places that the trials were set in and the costumes.
Like Wiccan, I love how we got comic-accurate Agatha, but I realized something cooler: Agatha acted as Wanda's babysitter and therapy guide in WandaVision; and Billy's now- spirit guide in this show, which is also comic-accurate about her. So Agatha was accurate all along!!!!❤😊😊
I think Agatha obtained the Darkhold by promising her firstborn child to Death. Remember, she had her purple dark magic a long time before she became pregnant, when her mother's coven tried to punish her in a flashback in WandaVision. Also in the finale of this series Death arrives as Agatha is about to give birth...and Agatha already knows she has come for the child, and not her. Also, it explains why she says that what actually happened to Nicholas was worse than what everyone assumed, and the meaning behind the hallucination she had in episode three of the Darkhold in the baby carriage.
This is definitely not what happened. That’s the story the other witches were saying about her, which Rio + Agatha said was a lie in their private conversation during the beginning of episode 8. There is also clearly no mention of the darkhold in episode 9, Agatha clearly asks Rio for more time with her son, she is clearly killing witches to keep him alive.
I don't think Nicholas' story is over. I still think there's much more there that may be uncovered in a future MCU project. I'm thinking maybe she acquired the darkhold to get her son back from death, but that plan backfired Pet Cemetery style. She tells Nicholas she had to kill witches for them to stay alive, and the first day Nicholas didn't, he died, so I'm thinking there's something more to that, too.
I didn’t think the implication was that they’re sharing a body, it seemed as though his brother was a wandering spirit, lost and alone. With Agatha guiding Billy through that purgatory, to locating his spirit, guiding him into a new vessel.. But I like your version better lol. Edit : damn, I missed my opportunity to say WANDA’ring.. 😢
There are two ways to look at the more awful truth that Agatha mentioned. The more obvious interpretation is that she twisted an innocent song that her son wrote to con witches and steal their power. She's only ever loved one person and she betrayed even him. The more character study interpretation is that death comes for us all. She didn't lose him for any real reason and that's terrifying to her. His death was meaningless and that, to Agatha, is worse than him being a sacrifice. EDIT: I also need to mention how cool I thought Rio's rip was. It wasn't some fake looking CGI portal, it was just cutting straight through a green screen or matte painting.
Death by a thousand cuts actually literally just cut people on different parts of body, missing all main arteries. So they literally get cut a thousand times. It’s brutal. 😂
I wouldn't be surprised if Billy and Agatha make a cameo at the end of the VisionQuest series because I'm really hoping that Tommy's soul in his new body will be a strong B-plot in that series. It would be a great way for Marvel to tell two different stories moving the agenda of the Young Avengers forward before the Secret Wars.
@eden20111 probably. Real vision has been parted out or reality folded so I’m guessing it’s White Vision coming to terms with all that data Hex Viz put in him or downloaded? In Wanda Vision
Another interesting Easter egg in the “Once More With Feeling” poster: the heart of this musical episode was… SPOILERS …Buffy’s friends thought she had been trapped in a Hell dimension, when in reality Buffy had sacrificed herself to save the world. They couldn’t accept her death so they performed a dark ritual to resurrect Buffy. In this episode Buffy reveals that actually, she had been in Heaven and coming back to Earth was literally Hell for her. This theme of life, death, sacrifice and resurrection resonates with the overall themes of this entire show.
Did anyone else realise that Hela's magic being green in Thor Ragnarok corresponds with deaths magic colour? Nice detail seeing Hela was the goddess of death
I thought it was insinuated that Agatha was killing Witches for death to giver her son time in return. When her son walked away from killing the witches after singing I assume death had to finally collected on the debt
i'm most sad that Sharon is gone for good. she didn't ask or deserve any of this. her neighbors have no idea what happened to her, she just disappeared as far as they know. Rio cutting a hole in the background was a nod to agatha's "behind the scenes" reveal in wandavison. it showed how it's a set and not real. and Jen's character in the comics played a big part in the midnight suns comics. there is talk of a midnight suns project happening, maybe we will see her again in that. and i love how you glaze over Jen's magic being pink. no explanation as to how this fits into your "one size fits all" infinity color theory? lol and Tommy's new body does not die as a prank gone wrong. those little shits straight up killed him, lol. holding someone's head underwater is not a prank, it's murder.
So, Billy leaves for Westview at night. It's early morning when Agatha is fully released from her spell and presuming it's early evening when they enter the Road, it's probably the next morning when Agatha dies. (Time can move at its own pace within the Road.) I presume "you've been gone for 24 hours" just means that his parents only noticed he was missing until the morning after he left.
If they are gonna bring Tommy back I don’t think it’ll be in a Young Avengers movie or show. If Vision Quest is happening, I’m predicting it’ll be there where we’ll see him again. With that show ending with all 3 of them reuniting and with Wanda returning as well..
Whatever happened in their past, the only way Death would permit Agatha to stay alive was if Agatha didn’t change from the kind of person who would keep giving Death her dead witches. When Agatha told Nicky it was okay that they didn’t kill witches that day, Death came for Nicky as a way to control Agatha. Billy WAS able to get Agatha to change, and so Death took Agatha. So in the end, Agatha DID grow a bit, she was just able to pull one more fast one on Death with the ghost transformation.
My theory is that Agatha kept Rio busy/distracted by killing witches! and sucking up their power is just a nice bonus! when Death didn't have bodies to take, she took Nicholas. Agatha is a villain, and I really like that they kept her as a villain!
Just a theory here but Reo / Death said in the past that she could only offer Agatha / Nicholas time. I would assume from that statement that means that Agatha had to provide sufficient collateral damage / body count to hold death at bay. So when she is saying that the truth is so much worse the truth she is referring to is that she had to sacrifice countless witches just to give her son another day. And the last scene he was in was singing the witches road song but instead of tempting the witches to follow him he decided to spare their lives. And because there were that close to the payment to death being due he was essentially tired of killing countless innocent witches so that he could live a little longer
This was a fantastic series! The acting, writing, cinematography, special effects, all on point. Hell, episode 7 should be nominated for an Emmy. And Agatha was so damn cool, she had Lady Death simping lol 💔
Rio saying that Billy's existence messed up the balance reminded me of the Elder God telling Raziel that vampirism trapped the essence of life, throwing the wheel of fate out of balance
I think the subliminal idea in Agatha was that she was killing witches in the beginning to keep her son alive by delivering bodies to death in exchange for more time for Nick. Remember, Agatha and death had an agreement, and I think this was the agreement. So whenever they don't kill witches, he starts to feel ill, like when he was a baby and crying, but after Agatha killed the first coven of witches, the baby seemed healthy and happy.
The show was good, but the ending kind of just throws it over the top 🙌. It may be my favorite marvel miniseries yet. I was almost pissed with marvel for killing off Wanda (🗣️🗣️🗣️OFF SCREEN…mofos 😂) but seeing how powerful her son (who technically doesn’t exist), BODY JUMPS into some dead kids body, and accidentally creates the witches road, (replicating his mothers accidental spell), iiiisssss pretty bad ass. Don’t hate it at all 👌it’s kind of like Wanda isn’t actually dead a all. Just reincarnated when you think about it. Dope stuff!
my theory about Agathas succubus power, mostly because it works inside protection circles, works in defence, she has limited or no control, she was born evil so called... yes she's a witch, but she's also a mutant, because the mutant X Gene is responsible for channeling and conversion of energy, in this case... she absorbs magical power and converts it to powerstone energy. IMHO
bro, how did you miss it? The reason why Agatha had to kill all those witches was to buy time for her son that last night. When nikki didn't want to kill, anybody was basically the same night, death came to take him.
Am I the only one who noticed the unanswered question that the finale opened up? If Rio took Nicholas Scratch in the night while Agatha slept, that means that she didn't trade him for more power as she led others to believe because the reality of Nicholas' time being too short was too painful for Agatha. That being said, since Agatha never traded Nicholas, how did she come into contact with the Darkhold in the first place? We saw that throughout the 20th century that Agatha conned witches using the mystique of the road to give up their powers unto her, so when and how did Agatha get the Darkhold to show it to Wanda at the end of WandaVision?
She had the darkhold way before with her first coven, that's why her mom wanted to kill her. Later, she used the darkholds magic to literally create Nicholas from scratch. She used no incantation, no spell. That's the power of the darkhold. So basically Nicholas is in essence a part of Chthon. So when Rio came to collect Nick, she was collecting him back for Chthon.
She had the dark gold at least 60 years before Nicky was born bc her mom tried to kill her for using it. Also the made from scratch no spell no incantation is basically saying this dark gold having witch can make a whole damn baby with nothing while you normally would need a spell or incantation to magick.
Agatha says that what actually happened to Nicky is more awful than the darkhold/baby story because the reality of losing her young son is A LOT more painful than some fake story strangers made up about her. One is a insult against her character, the other is the most excruciating form of emotional pain on earth. Also, the concept of him dying in his sleep being idyllic is a detached perspective. Can you imagine what it’s like to wake up to your child’s dead body? I cannot imagine that level of shock and excruciating pain…
No, Literally. Not to mention, it's implied that the killing of the witches is what gave Nicky more time, so when you add that layer, you can imagine the guilt she's caring. The one night she decides to be merciful and do as her son asks of her, is the night he's taken from her.
I think the reason Nicky lived for the amount of time he did was because Agatha made a deal with Death to give her souls. Cuz soon as he stopped or skipped helping his mom get souls he died that night
I know MT says we didn’t get of Mephisto this season but I argue that the smirking face we see created by the house during the red trial is Mephisto watching all of this play out.
A big part that frustrates me about this finale is we never get explanations or expounding on the maiden aspect of Agatha. Why is she this powerful witch who can drain everybody but nobody can drain her? Why does she and rio have a relationship seemingly before Nicky is born? What does the dark hold have to do with this story at all (why does she need to kill witches if she has the dark hold)? Why is she running from nicky? Idk man it was a good show but I was definitely slightly disappointed by the ending. I was also frustrated that Lilia and Alice ultimately were just plot devices and didn’t cause a change in Agatha’s character. The twist that Billy created the road was good and I enjoyed the connections to previous episodes, it felt like they planned that from the beginning which I liked, it just felt in the end that spectacle was chosen over a fully cohesive plot and character growth. The show was a solid 8/10 for me, I loved the weekly watching and theorizing. The final episode just kinda took it down from a 9 to an 8 for me.
Honestly I have been talking with my gf and actually we think it was the 8th episode that dropped the story down a point. There were the aforementioned plot holes, inconsistent character motivations, and a lack of a true underlying theme about reality/humanity. It doesn’t feel like Agatha or Billy learned anything that made them better or more capable as decision makers. Agatha getting force ghost treatment also does not sit well with me. The first episode was more or less irrelevant to the plot. I’m a stickler for character decisions impacting plot progression which in turn reveals a theme. It feels like they were stuck between deciding if Agatha was an antagonist or a protagonist, she doesn’t really do well as a grey character given her actions are so extreme and not realistically motivated (again where is the dark hold why is it not used to progress the audiences’ understanding of past Agatha’s decisions). What caused her first coven to try her? What makes Billy so special that he is the only one she doesn’t fully drain (ie I don’t find comparing Billy’s convictions to nicky’s to be strong enough given she murders covens seemingly for no reason after his death)? Why does Jen survive Agatha’s binding when nobody else does? Episode 9 would have been perfect if Agatha experienced a change in episode 8, but I don’t think she did. It is once again not helped by Agatha flip flopping on acting good or evil. To me it feels like ultimately the creatives were told by the executives how the characters of the show had to end and they were forced to make choices about the plot and characters that ultimately did a disservice to the underlying main message of the story. Again the show before last night was easily a 9/10 for me, it was solely the not sticking the landing that caused me to knock it down a point or two. Lastly, the Aubrey and Kathrine kiss was hot, 10/10 would watch again
Lilia taught her to rely on others (when she recalled to hit to deck). Alice and the fallout after her death taught her to consider not completely draining witches, or at least learn to control it.
I find it crazy how Billy had enough power to refill Agatha's *CENTURIES* worth of stockpiling energy and still have enough power leftover to be a major threat.
The part about trying to find a body for Tommy (“am I killing this boy so my brother can live?”) that’s ended with Agatha’s quiet, sad utterance “No, Billy. Sometimes… boys die” had so many layers. Agatha has clear motherly instincts toward Billy because of the loss of Nicholas, whom she couldn’t save from Death despite taking the power of so many witches over the centuries. So she hides an aura of sympathy for Billy, knowing he has powers he doesn’t fully understand yet and that he wants to be a good person who doesn’t kill anyone. But ultimate power can easily corrupt him as it did her, and deep down, she doesn’t want that for him because she knows the loneliness of what it’s like to have ultimate power, yet be alone and powerless to save someone you love. The illusion of The Road is a quest to the core of who Billy and Agatha are. Both walk away fundamentally changed by it. I love how it starts off with him admiring her and wanting to learn from her as a familiar, yet ends with Agatha having a greater respect and learning from him, so much so that she sacrifices herself so that he can live-something she was unable to do for her own son. Now she's his ghost familiar. I LOVE that. The way she challenges him in taking her under her wing with subtle comments suggesting "you don't want to end up like me, do you?" shows how much she respects him as the son of her former rival too. She knows she's the only one who can help him sort out the riddle of his own power, so she plays up her evil, conspiratorial personality as a way to string him along until he gets it. I just loved Agatha and Billy's dynamic so much. 💙
So we still don’t know how Agatha got the Darkhold? We assume she acquired it in an attempt to bring her son back? But it doesn’t seem to fit in with her Mother’s coven issue with her practicing “magic above her station. “ because that occurred before Nicholas was born? Agatha’s past has some loose ends which is unfortunate in a show about her.
These final two episodes were such an emotional roller coaster and chef's kiss!!!! The themes were mature, Agatha's motherhood moment struck deep and tragic 🔥💯 Billy's room universe realization reminds me of Franklin Richard's creating universe's under his bed sheets!!!
13:30 We literally see Agatha and Billy, who have purple and blue powers respectively move objects with their mind akin to a type of gravity manipulation, we even see Billy throw Rio back into the house at one point, so NO green magic is not tied to anything related to gravity, and everything that happened in Ta Lo happened because the people that live there have a special connection to the energies of the land as stated IN THE MOVIE (so it looks like airbending, and king fu air bending power is totally different than gravity manipulation magic witch power, and as a regular viewer you should just be able to watch any of these shows/movies and figure that out, just by watching, no theorizing, no speculation just watching what's on screen it's not that hard), in Doctor, strange 1, the ancient one talked about how they draw energy from different dimensions, the people of Ta Lo are clearly drawing their energy from their own dimension (once again, as stated in the shang chi movie they have that power solely because they exist in Ta Lo or else everybody else would just be airbenders) and tools from the great protector dragon. I don't know why you think green magic has anything to do with gravity, when clearly blue magic has ties to the space Stone, which would seem that it would manipulate gravity, but then we see wando with her chaos magic also moves objects with her mind, so what is it? Is it green magic, red magic, or Blue magic, and the answer is--- I know, you don't know what you're talking about dumbass MT you're just making this up as you go with no rhyme or reason, things are clearly color coded in the MCU for a reason and you just want to ignore all of that, idiot MT
Agatha had to feed on other witches not just for herself but to keep Nicky alive the day he doesn’t lure the witches he dies she even tells him they kill so he can survive and so when telling rio that the truth is worse that’s why
Buffy in that episode sang "walk through the fire, because where else can i turn" Kinda like the witches road having to escape the Salem lot. But that might be a "reachhhh....."
My interpretation of the relationship between death and agatha was that they had their relationship either after agatha killed her mother or maybe even before that, perhaps even giving her the power to absorb the power from the other witches. My guess is that she was originally going to be burned by witch hunters but made a deal with death gaining power in return for a steady stream of bodies that would otherwise defy death (long life of witches). This relationship turns romantic but with a toxic power dynamic. Maybe death even makes agatha pregnant as she doesn't seem like the type to be into men. Then when shes giving birth she sees death. This wouldn't make sense if it was billy dying. Either Agatha was going to die in childbirth and begged for some time with her child or her original deal for power involved her first born son (classic deal for power). My guess is the former though as otherwise the differentiation between trading son for darkhold and trading son for power is just splitting hairs in terms of badness. Idk why agatha would let people believe she sold her son for the darkhold. My best guess is that she would rather make herself feel worse about it than risk people comforting her as that forces her to confront the grief and trauma
Let this series be a lesson to the Acolyte people in layering twists. I've started rewatching the show from the point where they do the ritual in the basement. Agatha's reactions to everything going on are PERFECTLY directed and acted. It's like a whole new scene.
What "special treatment" did Death give to Thanos in the comics excactly? She manipulated him, made him fall in love with her and chase her giving her SO MANY GIFTS (souls), made him mad (he didn't even know if she excisted), made him her bitch and in the end she dumbed him (this could also have happened in the MCU but was just not shown to us). She treated him like crap, nothing special about that. She hated him and just used him. She even made him kill his parents! She gave Agatha six years of life with her son who wasn't supposed to live even a minute.
9:00 - When I watched it I assumed that Agatha was lying to Jennifer about binding her, as she knew that Billy was controlling the road and could give Jen her powers back. The story that Jennifer told seems real as she claims to have had them before the meeting and then lost them after
Would have been nice to see what the Snap did to Death's plan. Were the 50% of souls stuck somewhere other than death or did they get snatched back?... or are every returned Blipper technically a Variant?
I think the truth that was 'more awful' was more the story of how she lost him was so Human, but also him, his creation of the Song, and what followed after his death (her using their song to drain all those covens and witches over the years), when he didn't want that for them/her
@@tk_wanderlust this. I think she welcomed that story to help her put up a facade that she was evil and villainous. Don't get me wrong she was but at her core she just wanted now time with her baby. People wouldn't fear that description vs she gave her son up to access unimaginable power and that also kept people from getting too close. Losing a child leaves a scar you NEVER truly heal from. It wasn't until Billy came through and reminded her so much of Nicholas that she let him in. Telepathically, emotionally and all.
I feel like everyone is saying Agatha used Nicholas to kill witches when i feel like it's pretty apparent that she was killing the witches to keep him alive until he refused to continue his life by killing others which she was ready to do so
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Where you been Paul? We miss ya man! MT is great but we also need the spoiler man!
Need Paul back. MT is NOT great. A lot of us watch Heavy Spoilers and Screen Crush and avoid New Rockstars. Totally jarring and unentertaining to have them pop up here and be so cringe
The ‘truth is far more awful’ because of the sheer number of witches’ souls that Agatha traded to Death in order to buy that time with her son - she didn’t trade 1 soul for the power of the darkhold, she traded a vast number of souls to buy more time with the 1 she cared about. Who knows how many witches like the 3 who died one the road, each with their own hopes and dreams, were deliberately murdered by Agatha during those 6 years (and afterwards during her rampage)?
M.t. do you have s channel of you working here? I'd watch your content then new Rockstars or this channel hoping you show up.
@@lt.langlehe sucks
I like that Agatha began a villain and essentially stayed as a villain throughout the series. Not the normal redemption arcs used to water down villains in other projects. Agatha might have some affection for Billy but that’s it.
Yup. Pretty sure the only reason that Billy survived is because he reminded her of her son. And because, like her son, he saw the potential for good in her.
But Agatha really isn't a villain and she definitely isn't a hero. Her motivations are honestly pretty complicated and follow an ethic informed by her circumstance and history. I hope they explore this more in the next series.
Yep. I want to say sympathetic villain but she has shown selfishness throughout the entire show. She’s murdered her own coven multiple times and only spares Billy because he reminds her of Her dead son.
@moxypirate Tell that to all the innocent witches she tricked with the “witches road” in order to drain their powers and unalive them. 😳😬
@@moxypirateshe’s a serial murderer dude, after her kid died she never stopped.
I think the truth that's more awful is that Agatha used a loving song between her and her son as a way of tricking and killing witches despite knowing her son didnt want her doing so
yeah, like did Agatha kill Alice's mother, she went "missing on the road" ?
@@ghoststomperAlice’s mother died in a fire on tour
@@ghoststomper No, "on the road" in this case meant "while on tour," it's an idiom. But it helped add to the legend of the Road.
I think she meant how she wasn't able to save him.
🎯
It’s funny how they write the show so well that we feel empathy for Agatha as a mother, meanwhile she’s using her son for murder schemes the whole time he’s alive lmao
I think she was trying to absorb as much power as possible in a desperate attempt to save his life when the time came
Death literally told her that she would have limited time with her son, she was killing all of those witches to keep Death happy and buy more time with her son: at least while he was alive.
i think her killing the other witches every day kept Death busy so she'd have more time with Nicky. So the first time she didn't kill, Nicky died
She was doing it to give bodies to Rio so she wouldn’t take Nicky. Nicky wanted a break but then Rio came
I think it was literally the only way she was actually able to keep him alive. Because as soon as they passed on “absorbing” a witch, Rio “took” Nicholas. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think that was some unspoken condition that Rio had.
Definitely understandable if so. Definitely.
Ilove that when Agatha was fighting Rio she did everything she learned from the road (and her coven) protecting with salt, using water to sure, absorbing power but not killing billy, predicting when río yelled coward, and the finally sacrificing her life
I read the real tragedies as 1.) Death gave Nicky more time as long as he helped Agatha give Death bodies. As soon as that stopped, Death collected Nicky. Then 2.) Agatha kept giving Death bodies to delay her own death, so she wouldn’t have to be confronted with the shame of all that killing. So the truth that was more terrible than the Darkhold trade was that, knowingly or not, Agatha had killed hundreds (thousands?) of witches to give her son a few more years and delay her shame for centuries.
Thank you why is no one else catching on to that
That doesn’t make since because Lilia and Jen are also hundreds of years old without the need for murdering their sisters.
Jen went 100+ years with no powers and still looks 30 something
For point 2, Agatha kept killing because that was her way to deal with the d€ath of her child: anger. It wasn't to prolong her life imo. She never trusted other witches especially after her first coven betrayal.
I don't think that was the deal with Nicky. I think he was supposed to die at birth and Death gave him a specific amount of more time because her and Agatha had a relationship. Agatha's power of killing witches and taking their power had nothing to do with it. She would have been doing that regardless.
@@RonAbernathy27 Yes, the implication is that witches are inherently long lived, even without their magic. Agatha stealing witches' power isn't directly related to her longevity. (Also, worth noting that she's at least 80 or so when Nicky is born)
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that Nicolas was crying in hunger before Agatha entered the witches circle and fed on their magic. He stopped immediately after. And he died the same night he and Agatha didn't kill witches. She was using the lives of these witches to prolong his life, at least in part(maybe death left him alone as long as she got her bodies), and after he died she started doing it purely selfishly.
This is interesting
Ah, that totally makes sense.
Interesting. I originally thought it was part of a con, but a baby isn't that great an actor.
@ThePlayTyperGuy my personal theory is that she was originally acting out if a mother desperation to keep her son. After he died she started taking life selfishly to avoid Rio. She said she let people believe she traded her son for the Darkhold because the truth was too awful. The truth was she traded hundreds of lives for her son and he was the one to choose to end it. Even if he didn't understand the consequences of his actions he still chose to go with death in the end.
it was the 1700's, i think nicky just died from an illness. agatha told him she couldn't cure him, protect him, or divine when death would be back to claim him, because that's not what her magic was about. all the things that a coven could have done for her. her choice to be a lone witch is partially why he died. i also think death knew he would fall ill and die in six year if she didn't claim him as a baby, and that's why she was able to give agatha some time.
and i see agatha as using her child as bait to kill witches since he was a baby, until his death, and beyond that for centuries with the song he initially created, even though she clearly loved him. i wonder if that's one of the reasons she can't face his soul in the afterlife.
“Why is that more awful” has been rolling around in my head all night. I think it’s because she was powerless to save him. For Agatha, feeling powerless is the worst thing she can possibly imagine. She is so afraid of being powerless that she would rather be evil.
That may have something to do with it, but I think that her truth is more awful because she used an innocent song that she created with her son who didn’t want to kill any more witches to continue to trick and kill witches after his death
I read it as she was killing witches to give death something to do and not come for Nicky....she came when he decided not to do it any more.
oh i like that interpretation
Agatha would rather have people think she was evil and trade her son for power than she didn't have enough power to save him. Especially as power is her whole thing. Also, her son dying naturally would have limited the power of the road being able to give you the thing you want the most and she wouldn't have been able to fool as many witches a lot of whom I assume wanted back a loved one.
What was so awful- she used her son to lure witches to her to steal their power.
@@kellyflanagan3537She loved Death and yet couldn't save her son from dying. She got time, but not enough time. The truth that's so terrible is that she turned his death into a con to get more power.
@@kellyflanagan3537 yea i think that's why she is not ready to face him
Death threw everything at Agatha. Even the Kitchen Sink 😂
SPOILERS: When Agatha was going from town to town and killing witches, was that to appease death? The one day Nicholas didn't do it, was when death took him. Were they related?
Everything in this video and this thread is a spoiler. And I'm guessing she just had to kill enough to keep Death away, not necessarily every day. That would be A LOT of witches and a lot of deaths over 6 years if it was every single day.
I understood it as Agatha’s choice that brought Death. Agatha was okay with not killing any witches because Nicky wanted her to stop. It wasn’t the missed day. It was Agatha’s potential to change if Nicky wanted her to change. That caused Death to collect Nicky and spur Agatha into creating more bodies.
I thought this too, when she asked for more time and I thought Death would agree if she kept bringing bodies, but Nick was already looking sickly and randomly coughing towards his end. I think it was just coincidence.
They would have made some sort of blatant reference, if that were true.
Bingo
That's what I personally thought. Death waited until Agatha let her son's personal wish for peace overridde her own thirst for murder, then took him. Pretty low. But then again Death had been waiting and maybe also decided that enough was enough.
Loved Agatah's sacrifice, so beautiful, her finally doing something good and save billy when she couldn't save Nicky. Dunno if anyone else thought this, but the flowers, fungi, pants Rio creates for Agatha's grave was so touching, shows how much love Rio has for Agatha still.
noticed a lot of them were succulents
Her body was just decaying quickly
@@goldmembxr Theres this thing called symbolism.
I’m always wrapped up in the internet discussions of my favorite shows as they air, I didn’t see anyone call the twist w the ballad, that Agatha and her son wrote it to lure unsuspecting witches etc. That was so wild and clever
On those same boards, did anyone predict that Billy created this road? Not just the fact that the road had a lot of things from his bedroom, but the fact that there was no witches' road ever before him? That was a neat twist. The fact that he created it while running away from the cicada witch monster in the same way Wanda did while dealing with her grief? Chef's kiss.
@@wyattangle funnily enough, I saw a random TikTok video predicted and I instantly subscribed to the theory
Only Exquisite Echidna predicted that billy created the road and that agatha made it up, genius. Even tho I was still surprised, I wish I didnt know before
(Video title: PROOF agatha CREATED the witches road legend)
@@wyattangleyeah, there were theories for weeks that Billy created the road
@@Rmcrace2319 was it by the creator empress.solos/mythanita? If so that was me!
I have a friend who worked on the show and they said that the sink thrown at agatha was ACTUALLY PRACTICAL and NOT GCI! Loved this show and LOVED the MT breakdowns!
9:23 Hear me out. Agatha is a liar, she’s almost always putting on a performance so she can get what she wants. I don’t think she did bound Jen, I think she was taunting her. Because she had realized that Jen bound herself (which is why the spell felt like it went on for a little long) and on that last “You hold nothing” Jen realized it too. She was too busy revealing in her powers and was gone before this could be resolved.
Good call.
I came to the comments to make this connection, but you did it much more concisely than I could 💙
Idk…I think that if this is the case they would’ve made it evident by the end of the mini series…
@ there is confirmation of a season 2
@mjslack3073 is there???
I think the 'truth is too awful' was as I understood that Agatha had started to kill witches for Nick to stay alive so Rio would have 'her bodies' because the only day they didn't do it, was the day Nick died
Wow
Such a good point!!! Love this take
that is A LOT of witches to kill if she had to kill some every single day for 6 years
Also, Agatha might not have wanted to appear vulnerable and powerless. She preferred the narrative that she was callous but fully in control. She's not like Wanda, who always felt the need to justify the harm she inflicted.
This finale killed me in a way so good that I'll never forget it. Thank you for all the crazy good work you put into these breakdowns MT & Paul!
Love the fact that Agatha had always been evil even in death. But her son and Billy was her only soft spot!!!!! Even in Wandavision, her relationship with Billy and Tommy was mutual. They've embraced Agatha's decisions!!!!!
Theory: at the end of episode 5, Billy didn't try to kill the 3 remaining witche. He was subconsciously sending them off the road back to Westview, because the exit (the subway) was undergound. This was just have he after he argued that he wouldn't sacrifice others to achieve his witchy goals. He was probably subconsciously feeling guilty for Allison's death too, with some lowly awareness he created the road, in that moment.
Great point.
I love they kept Agatha a complex villain, and misunderstood.
Something to keep in mind: Mrs. Davis/Hart mentioned Westview's failed attempt at making a subway in episode 2. Likewise, the subway we see beneath the road in episode 7.
It looks like Billy didn't so much as create the Road as he twisted what was already there into the Road.
Given that mention of the subway and the later sight of the subway station, I would agree that Billy likely used the framework of the defunct subway system to create his road, all unconsciously. So it was "Billy All Along" in the making of the places that the trials were set in and the costumes.
Who?
@@alexp601 Garden Lady
@@GreekAl I know I was making a joke about how Agatha always forgets her name 😆
@@alexp601 I know, I was following up your joke with what Agatha always calls her by.
Watching the scene where the boy drowning by his friends was a tough scene to watch. That was sad.
Like Wiccan, I love how we got comic-accurate Agatha, but I realized something cooler: Agatha acted as Wanda's babysitter and therapy guide in WandaVision; and Billy's now- spirit guide in this show, which is also comic-accurate about her. So Agatha was accurate all along!!!!❤😊😊
Tiy love to see it
I think Agatha obtained the Darkhold by promising her firstborn child to Death. Remember, she had her purple dark magic a long time before she became pregnant, when her mother's coven tried to punish her in a flashback in WandaVision. Also in the finale of this series Death arrives as Agatha is about to give birth...and Agatha already knows she has come for the child, and not her.
Also, it explains why she says that what actually happened to Nicholas was worse than what everyone assumed, and the meaning behind the hallucination she had in episode three of the Darkhold in the baby carriage.
This is definitely not what happened. That’s the story the other witches were saying about her, which Rio + Agatha said was a lie in their private conversation during the beginning of episode 8. There is also clearly no mention of the darkhold in episode 9, Agatha clearly asks Rio for more time with her son, she is clearly killing witches to keep him alive.
I don't think Nicholas' story is over. I still think there's much more there that may be uncovered in a future MCU project. I'm thinking maybe she acquired the darkhold to get her son back from death, but that plan backfired Pet Cemetery style. She tells Nicholas she had to kill witches for them to stay alive, and the first day Nicholas didn't, he died, so I'm thinking there's something more to that, too.
I didn’t think the implication was that they’re sharing a body, it seemed as though his brother was a wandering spirit, lost and alone.
With Agatha guiding Billy through that purgatory, to locating his spirit, guiding him into a new vessel..
But I like your version better lol.
Edit : damn, I missed my opportunity to say WANDA’ring.. 😢
I liked that they kept her as a villain and didn’t re-hash the old, “redemption arc,” trope
There are two ways to look at the more awful truth that Agatha mentioned.
The more obvious interpretation is that she twisted an innocent song that her son wrote to con witches and steal their power. She's only ever loved one person and she betrayed even him.
The more character study interpretation is that death comes for us all. She didn't lose him for any real reason and that's terrifying to her. His death was meaningless and that, to Agatha, is worse than him being a sacrifice.
EDIT: I also need to mention how cool I thought Rio's rip was. It wasn't some fake looking CGI portal, it was just cutting straight through a green screen or matte painting.
Jennifer’s acting when she got back her power was beautiful and painful
I just realized, since she wrote the ballad: "I hold death's hand in mine..."
Bc she always knew Nicholas was going to dieeeeee... I'm unwellllll 😭
Death by a thousand cuts actually literally just cut people on different parts of body, missing all main arteries. So they literally get cut a thousand times. It’s brutal. 😂
I wouldn't be surprised if Billy and Agatha make a cameo at the end of the VisionQuest series because I'm really hoping that Tommy's soul in his new body will be a strong B-plot in that series. It would be a great way for Marvel to tell two different stories moving the agenda of the Young Avengers forward before the Secret Wars.
But what is Visionquest going to be about? White Vision?
@eden20111 probably. Real vision has been parted out or reality folded so I’m guessing it’s White Vision coming to terms with all that data Hex Viz put in him or downloaded? In Wanda Vision
Another interesting Easter egg in the “Once More With Feeling” poster: the heart of this musical episode was…
SPOILERS
…Buffy’s friends thought she had been trapped in a Hell dimension, when in reality Buffy had sacrificed herself to save the world. They couldn’t accept her death so they performed a dark ritual to resurrect Buffy. In this episode Buffy reveals that actually, she had been in Heaven and coming back to Earth was literally Hell for her.
This theme of life, death, sacrifice and resurrection resonates with the overall themes of this entire show.
YES!!! ❤❤ thank you for this lol I’m so glad you wrote this out so I didn’t have to 😎
15:12 The Maximoff walk of shame
Did anyone else realise that Hela's magic being green in Thor Ragnarok corresponds with deaths magic colour? Nice detail seeing Hela was the goddess of death
Great show. The ending was just a long cliffhanger, but I'm surprised how excited I was to watch it each week.
Thanks!
Much appreciated
37:14 I like how this started as a breakdown of Agatha and ended in a Mephisto rant lol
It would have been disappointing if they'd brought everyone back. It wouldn't have suited the drama.
I thought it was insinuated that Agatha was killing Witches for death to giver her son time in return. When her son walked away from killing the witches after singing I assume death had to finally collected on the debt
i'm most sad that Sharon is gone for good. she didn't ask or deserve any of this. her neighbors have no idea what happened to her, she just disappeared as far as they know. Rio cutting a hole in the background was a nod to agatha's "behind the scenes" reveal in wandavison. it showed how it's a set and not real.
and Jen's character in the comics played a big part in the midnight suns comics. there is talk of a midnight suns project happening, maybe we will see her again in that.
and i love how you glaze over Jen's magic being pink. no explanation as to how this fits into your "one size fits all" infinity color theory? lol
and Tommy's new body does not die as a prank gone wrong. those little shits straight up killed him, lol. holding someone's head underwater is not a prank, it's murder.
Was counting down for this vid!! Great work MT. You're a gem to the Marvel world!
So, Billy leaves for Westview at night. It's early morning when Agatha is fully released from her spell and presuming it's early evening when they enter the Road, it's probably the next morning when Agatha dies. (Time can move at its own pace within the Road.) I presume "you've been gone for 24 hours" just means that his parents only noticed he was missing until the morning after he left.
If they are gonna bring Tommy back I don’t think it’ll be in a Young Avengers movie or show. If Vision Quest is happening, I’m predicting it’ll be there where we’ll see him again. With that show ending with all 3 of them reuniting and with Wanda returning as well..
Wanda will be doomsday.
Whatever happened in their past, the only way Death would permit Agatha to stay alive was if Agatha didn’t change from the kind of person who would keep giving Death her dead witches. When Agatha told Nicky it was okay that they didn’t kill witches that day, Death came for Nicky as a way to control Agatha.
Billy WAS able to get Agatha to change, and so Death took Agatha. So in the end, Agatha DID grow a bit, she was just able to pull one more fast one on Death with the ghost transformation.
My theory is that Agatha kept Rio busy/distracted by killing witches! and sucking up their power is just a nice bonus! when Death didn't have bodies to take, she took Nicholas. Agatha is a villain, and I really like that they kept her as a villain!
Just a theory here but Reo / Death said in the past that she could only offer Agatha / Nicholas time. I would assume from that statement that means that Agatha had to provide sufficient collateral damage / body count to hold death at bay. So when she is saying that the truth is so much worse the truth she is referring to is that she had to sacrifice countless witches just to give her son another day. And the last scene he was in was singing the witches road song but instead of tempting the witches to follow him he decided to spare their lives. And because there were that close to the payment to death being due he was essentially tired of killing countless innocent witches so that he could live a little longer
This was a fantastic series! The acting, writing, cinematography, special effects, all on point. Hell, episode 7 should be nominated for an Emmy. And Agatha was so damn cool, she had Lady Death simping lol 💔
Rio saying that Billy's existence messed up the balance reminded me of the Elder God telling Raziel that vampirism trapped the essence of life, throwing the wheel of fate out of balance
I think the subliminal idea in Agatha was that she was killing witches in the beginning to keep her son alive by delivering bodies to death in exchange for more time for Nick. Remember, Agatha and death had an agreement, and I think this was the agreement. So whenever they don't kill witches, he starts to feel ill, like when he was a baby and crying, but after Agatha killed the first coven of witches, the baby seemed healthy and happy.
The show was good, but the ending kind of just throws it over the top 🙌. It may be my favorite marvel miniseries yet. I was almost pissed with marvel for killing off Wanda (🗣️🗣️🗣️OFF SCREEN…mofos 😂) but seeing how powerful her son (who technically doesn’t exist), BODY JUMPS into some dead kids body, and accidentally creates the witches road, (replicating his mothers accidental spell), iiiisssss pretty bad ass. Don’t hate it at all 👌it’s kind of like Wanda isn’t actually dead a all. Just reincarnated when you think about it. Dope stuff!
Very insightful review! Agatha’s backstory and Billy’s reveal were mind blowing!
my theory about Agathas succubus power, mostly because it works inside protection circles, works in defence, she has limited or no control, she was born evil so called... yes she's a witch, but she's also a mutant, because the mutant X Gene is responsible for channeling and conversion of energy, in this case... she absorbs magical power and converts it to powerstone energy. IMHO
bro, how did you miss it? The reason why Agatha had to kill all those witches was to buy time for her son that last night. When nikki didn't want to kill, anybody was basically the same night, death came to take him.
My FAVORITE breakdowns! Thank you!!
It's not worse for other ppl, it's worse for her because it means that she was ultimately powerless to save her son from death.
Am I the only one who noticed the unanswered question that the finale opened up? If Rio took Nicholas Scratch in the night while Agatha slept, that means that she didn't trade him for more power as she led others to believe because the reality of Nicholas' time being too short was too painful for Agatha. That being said, since Agatha never traded Nicholas, how did she come into contact with the Darkhold in the first place? We saw that throughout the 20th century that Agatha conned witches using the mystique of the road to give up their powers unto her, so when and how did Agatha get the Darkhold to show it to Wanda at the end of WandaVision?
Wondered this too
Could've taken it from one of the witches she killed?
She had the darkhold way before with her first coven, that's why her mom wanted to kill her. Later, she used the darkholds magic to literally create Nicholas from scratch. She used no incantation, no spell. That's the power of the darkhold. So basically Nicholas is in essence a part of Chthon. So when Rio came to collect Nick, she was collecting him back for Chthon.
She had the dark gold at least 60 years before Nicky was born bc her mom tried to kill her for using it. Also the made from scratch no spell no incantation is basically saying this dark gold having witch can make a whole damn baby with nothing while you normally would need a spell or incantation to magick.
@@eden20111 OOOOO, clock it
The way Billy and eventually Tommy came back, is also a way they could bring Quicksilver back actually as well, especially if Wanda is still around.
Agatha says that what actually happened to Nicky is more awful than the darkhold/baby story because the reality of losing her young son is A LOT more painful than some fake story strangers made up about her. One is a insult against her character, the other is the most excruciating form of emotional pain on earth.
Also, the concept of him dying in his sleep being idyllic is a detached perspective. Can you imagine what it’s like to wake up to your child’s dead body? I cannot imagine that level of shock and excruciating pain…
No, Literally.
Not to mention, it's implied that the killing of the witches is what gave Nicky more time, so when you add that layer, you can imagine the guilt she's caring. The one night she decides to be merciful and do as her son asks of her, is the night he's taken from her.
I think the reason Nicky lived for the amount of time he did was because Agatha made a deal with Death to give her souls. Cuz soon as he stopped or skipped helping his mom get souls he died that night
I know MT says we didn’t get of Mephisto this season but I argue that the smirking face we see created by the house during the red trial is Mephisto watching all of this play out.
I just want to know who Nicholas Scratch’s dad is. 😂
I wonder if he was created by magic. I might be wrong, but I thought Agatha said she created him from "scratch". I could be hearing things
@@TristanHathaway “I spoke no incantation, I cast no spell”
he was created by scratch...aka no man lol
God is the daddy
*insert 'Vergence in the Force' quip here*
The part when they drowned the other boy gave me chills because never thought marvel would do something like that
i think i missed that, when was it lol
@11:28 Tommy's new body's shoes also have an S stitched on the side. That's probably a nod to Speed, his superhero name
Forgot about how Agatha knew Billy was a marimoff. She said that he had the same tell as his mother. Which was making hex.
Lilia “died” offscreen. There was no follow up scene and she was the last one listed on the memorial on the floor. I think Loki just got an assistant.
Great Breakdown MT! Thanks for your hard work explaining on the easter eggs and comic references.
A big part that frustrates me about this finale is we never get explanations or expounding on the maiden aspect of Agatha. Why is she this powerful witch who can drain everybody but nobody can drain her? Why does she and rio have a relationship seemingly before Nicky is born? What does the dark hold have to do with this story at all (why does she need to kill witches if she has the dark hold)? Why is she running from nicky? Idk man it was a good show but I was definitely slightly disappointed by the ending. I was also frustrated that Lilia and Alice ultimately were just plot devices and didn’t cause a change in Agatha’s character. The twist that Billy created the road was good and I enjoyed the connections to previous episodes, it felt like they planned that from the beginning which I liked, it just felt in the end that spectacle was chosen over a fully cohesive plot and character growth. The show was a solid 8/10 for me, I loved the weekly watching and theorizing. The final episode just kinda took it down from a 9 to an 8 for me.
Honestly I have been talking with my gf and actually we think it was the 8th episode that dropped the story down a point. There were the aforementioned plot holes, inconsistent character motivations, and a lack of a true underlying theme about reality/humanity. It doesn’t feel like Agatha or Billy learned anything that made them better or more capable as decision makers. Agatha getting force ghost treatment also does not sit well with me. The first episode was more or less irrelevant to the plot. I’m a stickler for character decisions impacting plot progression which in turn reveals a theme. It feels like they were stuck between deciding if Agatha was an antagonist or a protagonist, she doesn’t really do well as a grey character given her actions are so extreme and not realistically motivated (again where is the dark hold why is it not used to progress the audiences’ understanding of past Agatha’s decisions). What caused her first coven to try her? What makes Billy so special that he is the only one she doesn’t fully drain (ie I don’t find comparing Billy’s convictions to nicky’s to be strong enough given she murders covens seemingly for no reason after his death)? Why does Jen survive Agatha’s binding when nobody else does? Episode 9 would have been perfect if Agatha experienced a change in episode 8, but I don’t think she did. It is once again not helped by Agatha flip flopping on acting good or evil. To me it feels like ultimately the creatives were told by the executives how the characters of the show had to end and they were forced to make choices about the plot and characters that ultimately did a disservice to the underlying main message of the story. Again the show before last night was easily a 9/10 for me, it was solely the not sticking the landing that caused me to knock it down a point or two. Lastly, the Aubrey and Kathrine kiss was hot, 10/10 would watch again
Lilia taught her to rely on others (when she recalled to hit to deck). Alice and the fallout after her death taught her to consider not completely draining witches, or at least learn to control it.
I love this story. Love it. But if Billy isn’t meant to be… why hasn’t the TVA come to prune him?
I find it crazy how Billy had enough power to refill Agatha's *CENTURIES* worth of stockpiling energy and still have enough power leftover to be a major threat.
And that's on being iconic
The part about trying to find a body for Tommy (“am I killing this boy so my brother can live?”) that’s ended with Agatha’s quiet, sad utterance “No, Billy. Sometimes… boys die” had so many layers.
Agatha has clear motherly instincts toward Billy because of the loss of Nicholas, whom she couldn’t save from Death despite taking the power of so many witches over the centuries. So she hides an aura of sympathy for Billy, knowing he has powers he doesn’t fully understand yet and that he wants to be a good person who doesn’t kill anyone. But ultimate power can easily corrupt him as it did her, and deep down, she doesn’t want that for him because she knows the loneliness of what it’s like to have ultimate power, yet be alone and powerless to save someone you love.
The illusion of The Road is a quest to the core of who Billy and Agatha are. Both walk away fundamentally changed by it. I love how it starts off with him admiring her and wanting to learn from her as a familiar, yet ends with Agatha having a greater respect and learning from him, so much so that she sacrifices herself so that he can live-something she was unable to do for her own son. Now she's his ghost familiar. I LOVE that. The way she challenges him in taking her under her wing with subtle comments suggesting "you don't want to end up like me, do you?" shows how much she respects him as the son of her former rival too. She knows she's the only one who can help him sort out the riddle of his own power, so she plays up her evil, conspiratorial personality as a way to string him along until he gets it.
I just loved Agatha and Billy's dynamic so much. 💙
So we still don’t know how Agatha got the Darkhold? We assume she acquired it in an attempt to bring her son back? But it doesn’t seem to fit in with her Mother’s coven issue with her practicing “magic above her station. “ because that occurred before Nicholas was born? Agatha’s past has some loose ends which is unfortunate in a show about her.
These final two episodes were such an emotional roller coaster and chef's kiss!!!! The themes were mature, Agatha's motherhood moment struck deep and tragic 🔥💯
Billy's room universe realization reminds me of Franklin Richard's creating universe's under his bed sheets!!!
This was the most comprehensive and clear explanation of what happened. Thanks for the video!
Entertaining video, MT!!! 👍🏾
13:30 We literally see Agatha and Billy, who have purple and blue powers respectively move objects with their mind akin to a type of gravity manipulation, we even see Billy throw Rio back into the house at one point, so NO green magic is not tied to anything related to gravity, and everything that happened in Ta Lo happened because the people that live there have a special connection to the energies of the land as stated IN THE MOVIE (so it looks like airbending, and king fu air bending power is totally different than gravity manipulation magic witch power, and as a regular viewer you should just be able to watch any of these shows/movies and figure that out, just by watching, no theorizing, no speculation just watching what's on screen it's not that hard), in Doctor, strange 1, the ancient one talked about how they draw energy from different dimensions, the people of Ta Lo are clearly drawing their energy from their own dimension (once again, as stated in the shang chi movie they have that power solely because they exist in Ta Lo or else everybody else would just be airbenders) and tools from the great protector dragon. I don't know why you think green magic has anything to do with gravity, when clearly blue magic has ties to the space Stone, which would seem that it would manipulate gravity, but then we see wando with her chaos magic also moves objects with her mind, so what is it? Is it green magic, red magic, or Blue magic, and the answer is--- I know, you don't know what you're talking about dumbass MT you're just making this up as you go with no rhyme or reason, things are clearly color coded in the MCU for a reason and you just want to ignore all of that, idiot MT
Think the Buffy 'Once More With Feeling' poster is mainly a nod to the composer Christophe Beck, who was also the composer for Buffy.
MT has gotta be staying up all night for us… wow! The speed!
Agatha had to feed on other witches not just for herself but to keep Nicky alive the day he doesn’t lure the witches he dies she even tells him they kill so he can survive and so when telling rio that the truth is worse that’s why
“I spoke no spell. I said no incantation. You…You were made from scratch”….So who’s Nicky’s Father?
Wanda is definitely with Doom. She will be his ace for the whole Doomsday thing.
"Where in the world is Tommy San Diego!?" ... MT! 😂😂😂
Buffy in that episode sang "walk through the fire, because where else can i turn"
Kinda like the witches road having to escape the Salem lot.
But that might be a "reachhhh....."
My interpretation of the relationship between death and agatha was that they had their relationship either after agatha killed her mother or maybe even before that, perhaps even giving her the power to absorb the power from the other witches. My guess is that she was originally going to be burned by witch hunters but made a deal with death gaining power in return for a steady stream of bodies that would otherwise defy death (long life of witches). This relationship turns romantic but with a toxic power dynamic. Maybe death even makes agatha pregnant as she doesn't seem like the type to be into men.
Then when shes giving birth she sees death. This wouldn't make sense if it was billy dying. Either Agatha was going to die in childbirth and begged for some time with her child or her original deal for power involved her first born son (classic deal for power). My guess is the former though as otherwise the differentiation between trading son for darkhold and trading son for power is just splitting hairs in terms of badness.
Idk why agatha would let people believe she sold her son for the darkhold. My best guess is that she would rather make herself feel worse about it than risk people comforting her as that forces her to confront the grief and trauma
Let this series be a lesson to the Acolyte people in layering twists. I've started rewatching the show from the point where they do the ritual in the basement. Agatha's reactions to everything going on are PERFECTLY directed and acted. It's like a whole new scene.
gona miss being called an Agathot😢
i like how they went to a more comic agatha at the end...not a bad show at all.
What "special treatment" did Death give to Thanos in the comics excactly? She manipulated him, made him fall in love with her and chase her giving her SO MANY GIFTS (souls), made him mad (he didn't even know if she excisted), made him her bitch and in the end she dumbed him (this could also have happened in the MCU but was just not shown to us). She treated him like crap, nothing special about that. She hated him and just used him. She even made him kill his parents! She gave Agatha six years of life with her son who wasn't supposed to live even a minute.
Probably the most satisfying end to a MCU show.
9:00 - When I watched it I assumed that Agatha was lying to Jennifer about binding her, as she knew that Billy was controlling the road and could give Jen her powers back. The story that Jennifer told seems real as she claims to have had them before the meeting and then lost them after
11:30 They highlighted the side of the shoes to show the Saucony logo….Running shoes 😉.
Would have been nice to see what the Snap did to Death's plan. Were the 50% of souls stuck somewhere other than death or did they get snatched back?... or are every returned Blipper technically a Variant?
Thank you Mt for the breakdowns❤.
I can't wait to see how they introduce Hulkling!!!
I think the truth that was 'more awful' was more the story of how she lost him was so Human, but also him, his creation of the Song, and what followed after his death (her using their song to drain all those covens and witches over the years), when he didn't want that for them/her
@@tk_wanderlust this. I think she welcomed that story to help her put up a facade that she was evil and villainous. Don't get me wrong she was but at her core she just wanted now time with her baby. People wouldn't fear that description vs she gave her son up to access unimaginable power and that also kept people from getting too close. Losing a child leaves a scar you NEVER truly heal from. It wasn't until Billy came through and reminded her so much of Nicholas that she let him in. Telepathically, emotionally and all.
Doing great work out there MT! Thanks for the coverage
I always live for your commentary and synopses MT!!! ❤😂
12:56. The effort that went into making her face partially skeletal.
MT we love it when you are here! Give this man a raise
I feel like everyone is saying Agatha used Nicholas to kill witches when i feel like it's pretty apparent that she was killing the witches to keep him alive until he refused to continue his life by killing others which she was ready to do so