Well spoken and I completely agree. It is a pity that we were led to beleive this unit would be so cheap and within days they are invalidating themselves by making it too expensive.
Clearly the point cost of 35 would have been auto include in every guard army but doubling their cost really makes it a hard sell when Kasrkin offer so much more for 15 points more. If they had made them cost like 45 to 60 they might be interesting but 70 for 5 is asking a lot.
@RyansMiniatures exactly, it's a pity because there is a middle ground here that is fine, where they can at least be considered. But we'll wait for the next points change, and see if they'll correct it then.
@@dkminer9954 sure, 35 points was just stupid, but 70 feels like the opposite end. Plus there were 2 days between telling us 35 and 70 points. Why tell us 35 at all?
@@gijsteunissen6158 gw my man, you can’t always guess what they’re gonna do but this time they dropped the ball by making it too obvious lol At least we were told before the boxes released i was expecting them to wait until things sold out before letting us know (which they kinda did) but if you bought more than one box set rip
taking a unit of 10 at 95 dosent seem bad instead of catachans for scouts, more expensive sure. but better strength guns better armour they do mortal wounds. and their shotguns are assault. thats a lot of advantages over catachans. without needing to buy the command squad. For me they are a nice mid point between catachans and kasrkin. you take them if you want mortal wounds kasrkins mine is very short ranged compared to theirs. i dont think they are auto takes. but i definately dont think they are "casual games only"
Just wanted to add that BS 3+ vs 4+ gives 33% extra hits. Think of it like rolling six dice. 4+ gives 3 hits, 3+ gives 4 hits. Thus an increase of 1 hit giving 33% more hits. What this unit can do is to let a command squad have a unit with them in a transport, if that is something you'd want. And can they be lead by others than Kriegers? I'm unsure if I will field them, the siege gun is what is tempting me most of the new units. And Rogal Dorn TC of course..
Well i will use them for the rule of cool. Anyways i wonder since they are one of the only melee focused quard units (outside bullgryns) how do they pair with a munitorum Priest? How can they fight other melee threats like orkboys.
So I don't think a priest can attach to them, I'm pretty sure it's just the Krieg Command Squad and Primaris Psyker (who I didn't cover in this video because he can attach to all three of these units and doesn't really do anything unique for them). If you take the clubs and pistols they'd fair exactly the same as Kasrkin because at toughness 5 the S4 is the same as S3. Against Space Marines they wound on 4's but without AP is unlikely that you kill more than one marine. Bullgryn are still the melee unit of the guard along with rough riders. The clubs mostly help against Guard and Cultist level units but it's not like the guard struggles at killing chaff. All that being said use them! I don't think they're the worst unit in the codex, nowhere near that level, it's just that in their role they're handily outcompeted by Kasrkin and Catachan.
So I looked it up and it appears that they can lead Engineers but the sustain hits 1, while a nice bonus, doesn't really move the needle on a bunch S4 hits. Without the Priest assuming a maxed out combat engineer squad you'll kill 2 boyz. With the priest buff you'll probably kill another with the bonus attack and he'll take down one with his own melee. If you order them to fix bayonets on top of all this you'll kill about 6 boyz. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen but it's by no means good melee and requires investing a lot into this unit. Against Space Marines you'll kill about 2 with the maxed out unit, priest, and order. It might help you finish off a unit you poured your grenades and other firepower into but you're not using this as a dedicated melee unit who can tango with other factions heavy hitters.
@@RyansMiniatures thank you very much. Kinda underwhelming. When i first saw the preview models i really hoped that guard would finally get human melee unit that could do something like the Solar auxilia velatari. But this seems a bit lackluster compared to them.
Coming back in from 6th-7th early edition, back when krieg were damn well meme terrible but had a couple of really good idea units. It is a bit of a shame really, especially given they had 2 options to make the unit fun/unique. Bring back the gets hot shotguns with carcass rounds which wound infantry/monsters on a 2+ but explode on a 6 and on the flip side which they went to do but just... didnt go far enough imo, power weapons for close combat with the pistols, if they all had proper "heavy" close combat weapons like idk, some kind of krieg power axe, something similar to the power sabre of the death riders which actually made them a serious combat threat, I feel they really could make for an interesting unit and would also give a valid unit to use the "trench fighters" strat on. Super squishy to enemy fire sure, but if you were silly enough to let them get close, they wouldnt just be a mortal wounds threat you can ignore after the initial "shock" so to speak anymore. Though as a "old time" krieger (like what, 9 years ago now? 10?), I am used to having control of arguably 1 of the least effective armies in the game, so being above that in returning to the table is a net plus I guess lmao.
I'm planning on using Tempestus parts to represent Scions, but GW has always been scummy when it comes to this kind of thing. I have five landspeeders...
@@RyansMiniatures Thats why you throw grenades first then shoot. You can shoot after you throw grenades you cannot throw grenades after you shoot. In order to use grenades you cant have advanced, fallen back or shot yet. No where dose it say you are not allowed to shoot after. You use the stratagem because you are eligible to shoot (ie not doing an action or already shot), then you shoot your guns.
The worst is - they obviously knew what they were doing. It was such a lowlife-like bait to get people to buy army starter boxes it's awful and disgusting.
I wonder how many people brought the box just to get a single 5 man squad early knowing full well that they get nerfed as soon as the first errata gets released.
Well spoken and I completely agree. It is a pity that we were led to beleive this unit would be so cheap and within days they are invalidating themselves by making it too expensive.
Clearly the point cost of 35 would have been auto include in every guard army but doubling their cost really makes it a hard sell when Kasrkin offer so much more for 15 points more. If they had made them cost like 45 to 60 they might be interesting but 70 for 5 is asking a lot.
@RyansMiniatures exactly, it's a pity because there is a middle ground here that is fine, where they can at least be considered. But we'll wait for the next points change, and see if they'll correct it then.
I mean, it was obvious this would happen. If anyone really thought this would stand they were foolin themselves
@@dkminer9954 sure, 35 points was just stupid, but 70 feels like the opposite end. Plus there were 2 days between telling us 35 and 70 points. Why tell us 35 at all?
@@gijsteunissen6158 gw my man, you can’t always guess what they’re gonna do but this time they dropped the ball by making it too obvious lol
At least we were told before the boxes released i was expecting them to wait until things sold out before letting us know (which they kinda did) but if you bought more than one box set rip
taking a unit of 10 at 95 dosent seem bad instead of catachans for scouts, more expensive sure. but better strength guns better armour they do mortal wounds. and their shotguns are assault. thats a lot of advantages over catachans. without needing to buy the command squad.
For me they are a nice mid point between catachans and kasrkin. you take them if you want mortal wounds kasrkins mine is very short ranged compared to theirs. i dont think they are auto takes. but i definately dont think they are "casual games only"
Just wanted to add that BS 3+ vs 4+ gives 33% extra hits. Think of it like rolling six dice. 4+ gives 3 hits, 3+ gives 4 hits. Thus an increase of 1 hit giving 33% more hits.
What this unit can do is to let a command squad have a unit with them in a transport, if that is something you'd want.
And can they be lead by others than Kriegers?
I'm unsure if I will field them, the siege gun is what is tempting me most of the new units. And Rogal Dorn TC of course..
Well i will use them for the rule of cool.
Anyways i wonder since they are one of the only melee focused quard units (outside bullgryns) how do they pair with a munitorum Priest? How can they fight other melee threats like orkboys.
So I don't think a priest can attach to them, I'm pretty sure it's just the Krieg Command Squad and Primaris Psyker (who I didn't cover in this video because he can attach to all three of these units and doesn't really do anything unique for them). If you take the clubs and pistols they'd fair exactly the same as Kasrkin because at toughness 5 the S4 is the same as S3. Against Space Marines they wound on 4's but without AP is unlikely that you kill more than one marine. Bullgryn are still the melee unit of the guard along with rough riders. The clubs mostly help against Guard and Cultist level units but it's not like the guard struggles at killing chaff. All that being said use them! I don't think they're the worst unit in the codex, nowhere near that level, it's just that in their role they're handily outcompeted by Kasrkin and Catachan.
So I looked it up and it appears that they can lead Engineers but the sustain hits 1, while a nice bonus, doesn't really move the needle on a bunch S4 hits. Without the Priest assuming a maxed out combat engineer squad you'll kill 2 boyz. With the priest buff you'll probably kill another with the bonus attack and he'll take down one with his own melee. If you order them to fix bayonets on top of all this you'll kill about 6 boyz. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen but it's by no means good melee and requires investing a lot into this unit. Against Space Marines you'll kill about 2 with the maxed out unit, priest, and order. It might help you finish off a unit you poured your grenades and other firepower into but you're not using this as a dedicated melee unit who can tango with other factions heavy hitters.
@@RyansMiniatures thank you very much.
Kinda underwhelming. When i first saw the preview models i really hoped that guard would finally get human melee unit that could do something like the Solar auxilia velatari. But this seems a bit lackluster compared to them.
Coming back in from 6th-7th early edition, back when krieg were damn well meme terrible but had a couple of really good idea units.
It is a bit of a shame really, especially given they had 2 options to make the unit fun/unique. Bring back the gets hot shotguns with carcass rounds which wound infantry/monsters on a 2+ but explode on a 6 and on the flip side which they went to do but just... didnt go far enough imo, power weapons for close combat with the pistols, if they all had proper "heavy" close combat weapons like idk, some kind of krieg power axe, something similar to the power sabre of the death riders which actually made them a serious combat threat, I feel they really could make for an interesting unit and would also give a valid unit to use the "trench fighters" strat on.
Super squishy to enemy fire sure, but if you were silly enough to let them get close, they wouldnt just be a mortal wounds threat you can ignore after the initial "shock" so to speak anymore. Though as a "old time" krieger (like what, 9 years ago now? 10?), I am used to having control of arguably 1 of the least effective armies in the game, so being above that in returning to the table is a net plus I guess lmao.
I'm planning on using Tempestus parts to represent Scions, but GW has always been scummy when it comes to this kind of thing. I have five landspeeders...
The comment that if you use grenade you cannot use your other weapons is just plain false. I have no idea where you got that from.
Balance patch. It was updated so you cannot shoot, advance, or fallback and throw grenades
www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/1dka2mj/grenade_stratagem_is_also_nerfed/
@@RyansMiniatures Thats why you throw grenades first then shoot. You can shoot after you throw grenades you cannot throw grenades after you shoot.
In order to use grenades you cant have advanced, fallen back or shot yet. No where dose it say you are not allowed to shoot after. You use the stratagem because you are eligible to shoot (ie not doing an action or already shot), then you shoot your guns.
You're correct, I read the update incorrectly. I don't think it changes the general impressions of the unit but add about 3MWs to your damage numbers.
The worst is - they obviously knew what they were doing. It was such a lowlife-like bait to get people to buy army starter boxes it's awful and disgusting.
I wonder how many people brought the box just to get a single 5 man squad early knowing full well that they get nerfed as soon as the first errata gets released.