How to Avoid a Sagging Middle

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  • Опубліковано 15 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 65

  • @MistahUnknown
    @MistahUnknown 6 років тому +35

    I'm currently working on a Detective crime mystery. This is really great advice. Thank you, Vivien.

  • @samantha8578
    @samantha8578 6 років тому +24

    Yes Vivian, give me the wisdom

  • @belcampbell7274
    @belcampbell7274 6 років тому +11

    love your writing advice videos, i don't think i would have finished my first draft without them!

  • @KajsaBernhardina
    @KajsaBernhardina 6 років тому +4

    Great video! I think escalation is the best answer to this question. You escalate the conflict by putting more and more conflict before your main character. It doesn't have to be physical obsticles. Conflict can be anything, but it needs to get harder and harder for the character to reach their goal.

  • @WriterMarkusRegius
    @WriterMarkusRegius 6 років тому +3

    Definitely good advice, the middle so often gets overlooked, and I hate discovering when I'm reaching the end of a story, that the middle needs fixing

  • @charitywritesbooks2828
    @charitywritesbooks2828 6 років тому +9

    “I can see you.” 😂

  • @Mikeztarp
    @Mikeztarp 6 років тому +2

    0:02 Got it. No need to watch the rest of the video; I'll just make my characters do crunches all the time. This makes sense: Bruce lee did crunches constantly, and he was the epitome of awesome.

  • @santanasg8445
    @santanasg8445 6 років тому

    Awesome! Definitely, the middle of the story, is where the plot starts forming, and all the obstacles & complications develop, so it should keep the readers at the edge of their seat & not bored!

  • @Griddiho
    @Griddiho 4 роки тому

    Hi Vivian, useful video. Examples really add to your advice points. I seem to have both a saggy AND overly complex middle, the latter problem being my response to the former problem. I think your “edit the crap out if it” advice is where I need to go. Anyway, keep the advice coming.

  • @j.fontaine2491
    @j.fontaine2491 5 років тому

    I defiantly saved to my Watch Later queue your Advice For Young Writers. I scrolled down and was confronted with this hard, or should I say, soft, truth. Fine, I’m old and have a comfortable midsection.

  • @alannothnagle
    @alannothnagle 6 років тому +1

    Thanks, this was indeed very helpful! If I may add an additional suggestion for middles: Add an intriguing and memorable character who shakes up the story. Two classic examples: The character of Gollum in "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings," who comes in around the middle and transforms these so far fairly conventional adventure yarns into something profound and disturbing. Also, R.L. Stevenson's "Treasure Island," where the character Ben Gunn appears and makes the story far more vivid and memorable than it would otherwise have been. This method works just as well in modern stories.

  • @zubaerchaudhari8267
    @zubaerchaudhari8267 6 років тому +1

    Vivien Reis you really always one of a favorite friend

  • @WriteHollyDavis
    @WriteHollyDavis 6 років тому +1

    Great tips! I have to work on the middle during this editing phase so this will help a lot!

  • @KeylinVLOGS
    @KeylinVLOGS 6 років тому +4

    Awesome advice Vivien! I am both editing and drafting right now... 😅 My current WIP draft was plotted and I am confident the middle will be at least okay once I am done with it, whereas the middle of the WIP I am editing (which I pantsed) is HORRID. I still love pantsing though haha.

  • @nocturnus009
    @nocturnus009 6 років тому +2

    Plotter for life! Some great advice. I'm not completely sure how, but I've been interested in doing a visual abstraction of the outline. Along the lines of Drawing your life in those Patti Dombrowski Ted talks. I wonder if the more vectors we contemplate our plots the better we can perceive the story.

  • @demarostom203
    @demarostom203 6 років тому +8

    I love your intro❤️❤️

  • @nannasskrivehjrne9494
    @nannasskrivehjrne9494 6 років тому

    This is definitely one of those videos I'll keep coming back to. Amazing advice, Vivien!

  • @jose11032
    @jose11032 6 років тому

    Looking forward to see your video on tension!

  • @katshvetsova8363
    @katshvetsova8363 6 років тому +3

    ive missed your videos so much

  • @nathplayz3237
    @nathplayz3237 4 роки тому +2

    Vivien: literally I can see you
    Me:(instantaneously clicks of the video)

    • @KutWrite
      @KutWrite 3 роки тому

      I put a shirt on.

  • @thomasray
    @thomasray 6 років тому

    Thank you so much! This video was one of the best! on my last project, I got halfway, (Yay!) and it got really boring really fast. Boring for the characters, boring for the readers and boring for me. I recognized the fact that it was boring, but didn't know exactly why. So yeah, this just answered every question I had. Thanks!

  • @thesunforest5178
    @thesunforest5178 6 років тому

    This video came just at the right time. I‘m currently figguring out the missing middle of my novel and trying to connect the climax with it. If I get this middle fixed, my outline is complete! :O
    I‘m so excited, thank you for the helpful advice!^^

  • @Al-rn5qy
    @Al-rn5qy 4 роки тому

    Hi Vivien. Found your channel a few weeks ago and have been binge watching ever since! I find your advice helpful and it has inspired me to return to working on my own first novel. Not sure if you have done this video before, but could you do one on novel genres? How to determine which genre a novel might fall into or a list of the different genres our there? Also, keep up the great work producing these videos👍

  • @sanfransiscon
    @sanfransiscon 6 років тому

    I recently decided to combine what was going to be two volumes together. The first "volume" had a sudden downer ending (protagonist goes back to old ways and therefore fails) but I was really struggling to find a way to make it a satisfying ending for a book anyways, so instead it's basically the halfway point.

  • @makidraws6883
    @makidraws6883 6 років тому

    Conflicting relationships

  • @calvinbrown3034
    @calvinbrown3034 6 років тому

    love your channel
    your advice almost always apply to me
    keep up up the good work

  • @danielburns1556
    @danielburns1556 4 роки тому

    Hi and happy new year! Would you mind, if you're able, going over the midpoint a little more? I am researching a lot and hear and read different definitions and uses of the midpoint, and I am a bit confused. I suppose it depends on the story's needs, so the midpoint may be situational and different, but I'd like to understand its function, its purpose, so that I can construct a midpoint with intention. I hear false-victory/false defeat, recommitment, raise the stakes, etc.
    I also read that the character should grow or realize something because of the midpoint event, which propels them to approach the rest of the story in a new light - such as realizing they need to be brave instead of timid. this epiphany sounds to me like the reaction to the black moment near the end of act 2, so I just don't know.
    please help!
    examples
    in the hobbit, the dwarves get captured and Bilbo realizes it's up to him to rescue them all - he must be brave and rely on himself and dose so. the dwarves commend him afterwards, and praise his courage and no longer seem to view him as incompetent or scared. this sounds a lot like the 75% mark epiphany that lots of stories have, where the character realizes that they need to change and how, and forms a plan to do it. confused!
    in harry potter, the midpoint is when they 'discover' that the package has been moved to Hogwarts. it's simple and does raise the stakes as now whoever was after the package would now have to come to Hogwarts, which makes harry more proactive in finding out what it is and getting it before Voldemort can, which is his way of protecting his new home and family.
    midpoint in fellowship is when Frodo realizes that only he can bare the ring and does so willingly. he has a kind of introspection and this shows character and sets the stage for the next act.
    these examples are to show that there is usually some sort of external event that not only changes/reveals the plot's direction, it's an opportunity for the character to react in a way that shows or means growth. they have an introspection, a realization born from the event of the midpoint, and sort of begin to show a new or different side of them - they learn or grow and from their epiphany they can tackle the rest of act 2 on to the climax. I think
    so basically what I'm asking is, should the midpoint have an external (plot) event AND an internal (story) character realization? If they change this early in the story, then how do we also make them realize and change at the 75 percent mark/dark night of the soul?

    • @barbaralong5154
      @barbaralong5154 3 роки тому

      I noticed nobody replied to this questions so I will.
      Yes, the middle involves a plot event that affects the character's growth. If an event doesn't effect the character internally, then it should be taken out of the story. The mid point usually involves a plot reveal/event that causes the main character's introspection about himself and what he needs in order to lead a more fulfilling life (even though it usually focuses on the story goal/problem). And, the 75% plot point also does this.
      But perhaps you're actually asking how to make these two plot points different and meaningful, and progressively impactful?
      Think of change realistically occurring in stages, and that "Truth" (the ultimate lesson) also has a hierarchy. No one changes overnight and no lesson comes in a flat one-lesson package.
      Starting with his flaw, break down the desired change into stages-- what your character needs to learn in steps by end of the story. These stages/turns in arc occur at the plot points.
      If a character is arrogant (flaw) based on a false sense of integrity (lie), and its causing him dissatisfaction in his life (though he doesn't see it), then the stages can go as thus:
      PP #1: He's knocked down a peg (perhaps humiliated) but doesn't acknowledge the lesson and goes on to solve the new story problem in the same old way.
      PP#2: He sees how his arrogance is affecting his life and he decides he needs to drop some attitude to meet his goal, but he clings to arrogance at the same time, complicating matters more.
      PP#3--His arrogance impacts others lives negatively (moral flaw)--he and/or someone he cares about suffers a huge loss (either externally or emotionally, or both) because of his actions. He struggles with keeping his self-respect while wanting to fix the damage he's caused.
      ACT 3--#4-- (Ah ha moment)--He sees that he has no integrity if his actions cause others harm. Lesson: The greatest self-respect comes from protecting others. As a result, he sacrifices his integrity/principles to save someone else.
      As you can see, Plot Point #2 introspection is different from Plot Point #3 introspection. One deals with his flaw in relation to his own life and the other deals with his flaw in relation to both himself and others (moral component). The stages are different, but closely related.
      The key is knowing the character's flaw and its opposite (and every thing in between), and his fear, and then breaking all those things down into stages and hierarchies (based on intensity). This method will increase the tension as the story progresses, help keep the plot points fresh, and keep the character arc moving forward.
      So in short, yes, you have two changes (internally and externally) at Plot Points 2 and 3, but they increase in intensity and self awareness.

    • @danielburns1556
      @danielburns1556 3 роки тому

      @@barbaralong5154 Hi, Ms. Long! Thanks for the response and breakdown. I hope you don't mind, you don't happen to coach writing, or would you be willing and able to help in ways similar to this? I am conceptualizing a story/stories and would value a dependable ear when I'm stuck. I could also hire you. I do read craft books nd watch videos such as this but a one on one, hand holding might really help me out. I would like to hire, only if you're willing of course. I could use some help, it's fiction, adventure. I'm currently planning a flat arc protagonist and it's difficult to know how the plot points function (for example, since we don't show the character changing, do we show them struggling in some other way, do we show the side characters changing instead, do we show the world suffering/strengthening in its flaw instead of the character's, do we show the character succeeding, who/what gets the focus at those moments, and what kind of focus is it? etc). I appreciate you responding and will put your explanation to good use!

    • @barbaralong5154
      @barbaralong5154 3 роки тому

      @@danielburns1556 Hi Daniel and thanks for the interest. I'm booked for months right now, but I can let you know if my schedule loosens up. For now, the most important question you need to ask is this: Why do I want to write a character with no change arc?
      That's an important question for this reason: What exists between the covers of a book when the writing process is finished is two-fold. On one hand you have a set of events that happen. One the other hand, you have the real story--how the main character is affected by those events. The latter is why readers read stories--that IS the story. Without character transformation, none of the adventurous events have meaning. In short, the book ends up being a situation where the writer can plop any John Smith in the story and it will read the same as plopping Mary Jones in it. If the story you're imagining right now could have any person leading it, then it will most likely fall flat.
      The point is that stories with the most purpose and appeal address characters' inner struggles as they pursue what they want. And those inner struggles are what creates the stakes. Without stakes, the story has no conflict and tension, and certainly no purpose. This isn't to say that there have never been flat arc stories that work. Think of Atticus Finch in To Kill A Mockingbird. But he wasn't the main character; he was an impact character. The point is that flat arcs are more difficult to pull off in protagonists because you have to make sure they are impact characters, which means the real focus is on the change of the supporting characters, which means you're actually writing a story about the supporting characters, not the proposed protagonist (think of Scout Finch in TKAM)..which, ultimately means the proposed flat-arc protagonist could end up as a peripheral device.
      So, in addition to asking why you've decided on a flat arc protagonist, ask yourself some other important questions: Why do I want this character not to change? Why are the events important to him? Why will the reader care about him? Is he meant to impact others' views? How will this main character impact others? If he doesn't need to change, then how does he encounter conflict that will keep the tension and stakes up (which is the first reason people keep reading the story)? If the supporting characters change because of the story events how will the reader know and empathize, and then why are they not the main characters/protagonists?
      In sum, you need to have a very good reason for not giving your character an arc (an aspect of himself that needs fixing).
      I hope that makes sense and helps.

    • @danielburns1556
      @danielburns1556 3 роки тому

      ​@@barbaralong5154 Hi, Ms. Long, I can't thank you enough for this information. I have been struggling to understand how to make the protagonist and the story resonant while the protagonist is flat and upholding his truth. I can answer some of these questions, but not all, and for some I will have to create reasons for existing. I could truly us help so I wouldn't mind waiting until you are available. I have not encountered anyone who has been able to explain the importance and meaningfulness regarding the elements you're speaking of, and so I'm kind of floundering around not understanding what kind of story I have on my hands or how to make it work its best, for the reader and for the story itself. I want to discover the story, let it become what it wants to be, but at the same time I need to know enough to be able to guide it. Looking at what I have through different lenses and angles and holding it up to different lights to know what makes this story THIS story, the only and best it can be, is why I'm seeking help, so that I can have the tools and knowledge and a professional's help.
      As for what I am conceptualizing, I have envisioned my story both ways, change and steadfast, to see which is at it's heart, and I happen to be drawn to steadfast for my main character, which does do what you mentioned and seem to almost make him a side character in that other characters are changing instead of him. That's fine, I want to make it happen. I choose steadfast/flat for this story because it fits the voice, style, tone, and other elements, and it's how the story spark originally came to me. hen I applied a change arc to him, I no longer recognized the story and it even changed the tone.
      It has been difficult to know/choose various elements you mentioned, for a steadfast/flat arc. Not knowing things like stakes, costs, tensions, etc, or how to make them engaging and compelling, are making it difficult, and I'm not sure where challenges, conflict and obsitlces should come from to make his journey resonant. This is why I am seeking help, so that I can gain these tools and knowledge to be able to determine things and know what should be influencing what. And if he struggles to uphold his truth and be the cause of change by remaining steadfast, I sometimes wonder if his perseverance, commitment, determination, etc, become the theme instead of what his inner truth is, which I'm thinking might be something like appreciation, belonging, or resourcefulness. So there are quite a few areas I'm lost in.
      I have all the characters and setting and some scenes I can envision being in the story, I just don't know how to put it all together in a meaningful, resonant way. If you would like to be in touch regarding hiring, my e-mail is danny burns 23 @ gmail . com no spaces. Thank you for your kind insights and advice! I look forward to more, if you are willing.

  • @siobhanm9690
    @siobhanm9690 6 років тому

    girl i missed your videos

    • @VivienReis
      @VivienReis  6 років тому

      It's been too long!! Getting back to my video roots 😁

  • @jesselferrer8667
    @jesselferrer8667 4 роки тому

    I have a question, is it normal to feel like all the ideas that popping on your mind are too cliche?

  • @AntoineBandele
    @AntoineBandele 6 років тому

    What are your thoughts on ACX or Findaway Voices for audiobooks?

  • @missamber9518
    @missamber9518 6 років тому +1

    OMGoddness, "red wedding"...it was an angry crying moment, equivalent to Dumbledore falling from the tower. GoT was a great comparison! :)

    • @prashantkumar4217
      @prashantkumar4217 3 роки тому

      What's your opinion now that the finale has been aired? 😂

  • @bardanino
    @bardanino 6 років тому +1

    Hi Vivien, love your channel!
    You've said before that you were an engineer. As a fellow engineer/fiction writer, I wanted to know in what field are you working or what was your major? I am a mechanical engineer

    • @VivienReis
      @VivienReis  6 років тому

      Same 😊

    • @bardanino
      @bardanino 6 років тому

      @@VivienReis Awesome :) You work as one too?

    • @hayden867
      @hayden867 5 років тому

      Bar Danino, Engineers unite!!! I'm personally studying electrical haha

  • @anuradhadhawan2556
    @anuradhadhawan2556 4 роки тому

    what do you meant by cubical drone???

  • @rachaelmarie3194
    @rachaelmarie3194 6 років тому

    YAY! A new video! How's the latest WIP going?

  • @dawnemile4974
    @dawnemile4974 4 роки тому

    Sagging is worse than flat. I know this when I look at my stomach.

  • @crookedjs
    @crookedjs 6 років тому +2

    I need to plan more on my stories:/ outlining takes forever but worth it!

  • @AllegroFitnessLondon
    @AllegroFitnessLondon 6 років тому

    are you writing any more books now?
    I'm writing dystopian/fantasy. :D

  • @morgandollar8087
    @morgandollar8087 5 років тому

    I'm working on a magic/medival/mystery novel.any advise

  • @muqeemahmad97
    @muqeemahmad97 6 років тому

    Very good sister

  • @eduardowolf8890
    @eduardowolf8890 6 років тому

    I don’t get the opening video did you say ab workout

  • @seanmoore7436
    @seanmoore7436 6 місяців тому

    relentless up-inflecting? every third syllable? is driving listeners? blubbering crazy? We're wondering? why keep doing it?

  • @mroctober3657
    @mroctober3657 5 років тому

    From the title, I thought this was a keto related video.

  • @consistentlychristy2991
    @consistentlychristy2991 6 років тому

    Just watched a scene clip of the red wedding and uh yeah that’s very red and yet another reason I can’t watch that show.

  • @beefling5390
    @beefling5390 6 років тому +4

    I was super confused at first I was thinking dirty.

  • @maozhuxi9181
    @maozhuxi9181 6 років тому

    why u looke like lored

  • @JudithSamp
    @JudithSamp 6 років тому +3

    Omg the thumbnail 😂 in german mushy means vagina and i was CONFUSED af!
    ❤️😂

    • @MistahUnknown
      @MistahUnknown 6 років тому +2

      I learned something new today. 😂

    • @robertlombardo8437
      @robertlombardo8437 6 років тому +2

      Judy Neptune
      ...It is oddly appropriate as a translation.

    • @VivienReis
      @VivienReis  6 років тому +1

      OMG hahaha. Good to know!

  • @mayankpal2010
    @mayankpal2010 6 років тому +1

    Hey Vivien,I am an Indian and I have written a book of American origin.Now I am confused,should I visit America and go for classic publishing or should I go for self publish it on Amazon.I am pretty confident about my story.but I am also short on funds so😅 plz help!
    BTW love your videos.😍

    • @robertlombardo8437
      @robertlombardo8437 6 років тому

      Mayank Pal
      Dude... you can SELF PUBLISH and sell on Amazon?! I would have never thought of that...

    • @mayankpal2010
      @mayankpal2010 6 років тому

      Maybe you should try publishing your own book then...(ahem)(ahem) Mr Best seller.

  • @Kuptain
    @Kuptain 6 років тому +1

    Just cut off the middle part of your story, and the problem is solved!