One thing I thought about… And I wonder if it is true. That when Jesus ascended to the father after the resurrection, he also ascended outside of time, space, and matter. Therefore he presented himself to mankind before being officially born.
After His resurrection He seems to not be bound by time and space and seems to just appear in different places around the Galilae and Jerusalem instantaneously whereas during His pre-death incarnate life He does not have this ability.
@@archangeljesus4369 I don't believe that. I know Jehovah's Witnesses believe he was but I believe he was the Angel of the LORD. Why?? Because Jesus is called the Word of God and the Angel of the LORD did a lot of talking for God. I'm more inclined to believe he was the Angel of God than Michael.
Acts 23:11 And the NIGHT following the Lord (Jesus) stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome. Act 27:23 For there stood by me this NIGHT the ANGEL OF GOD, whose I am, and whom I serve, QUESTION: Who is the Angel that stood in the night, that Paul serve ? ANSWER: 1Ti 1:12 I give thanks to Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength for my work. I thank him for considering me worthy and appointing me to serve him, (GNB) Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Manoah asking for the name Judges 13:18 the Angel of the Lord, when asked his name, declared, "Why are you questioning me about my name, seeing that it is a wonder?" A NAME OF WONDER Acts 3:16 And his name, through faith in his name, has made this man strong, whom you see and have knowledge of: yes, the faith which is through him has made him well, before you all.
"Bottom line, these are appearances of Christ". Ok, but why? Horton has some great verses to share from the OT, but he didn't show the connection to Christ from those stories; he just concluded that way.
This falls flat - "Now after they had left, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and escape to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy Him" (Matthew 2:13)" and no it does not state Gabriel. When Herod died, the angel of the LORD suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who were seeking the child's life are dead" (Matthew 2:19,20). Suddenly the angel of the LORD appeared and a light shone in the cell. He touched Peter on the side and woke him, saying, "Get up quickly." And the chains fell off his hands (Acts 12:7). And immediately, because he had not given the glory to God, the angel of the LORD struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died (Acts 12:23). Exegesis failed.
The angel who became Jesus could have appeared in the OT accounts. Paul however, tells us that this angel was used by God as a spokesperson in the first Century. Hebrews 1:2.
Hebrews1:5 to which of the angels did God EVER say you are my son. Acts12:7 The angel of the Lord frees Peter from prison. If you can prove Jesus is this angel you might have something but I think you’ve been studying with the JW‘s! God manifested himself in many ways in the Old Testament but in this last days he manifested himself in the Son . Hebrews1:2 The word became flesh John1:14
Actually God has never manifested Himself to humans. Hebrews 1:1,2 tells us that God used various means to communicate His thoughts to humans. The angel who became Jesus being the last. 'No man has SEEN God AT ANY TIME ' - 1 John 4:12,20 is clear.
Please explain the angel of the Lord in Matthew 28:2. Is this Jesus rolling back the stone from His own grave? From Matthew 28:3-7 the angel of the Lord speaks concerning Jesus' where about an the like...Please explain. Thanks.
the original Greek has no article in front of angel; it could be “the angel” or “an angel,” but the article must be supplied by the translators. Other translations besides the KJV say it was “an angel,” which is the better wording.
Doesn't God have myriads of Angels?? This angel could've been one of those myriads of angels. It doesn't say the Angel of the LORD. It's says the LORD'S Angel which could be any one of his angels. And the Angel of the LORD say at Genesis 31:11-13 that he is the true God of Bethel. What Angel would have the power to say such a thing if it weren't Jesus?? Isn't Jesus called the Mighty God in Isaiah. But don't get that confused with the Almighty God at Exodus 6:3. There's a big difference between Almighty and Mighty.
@@ScottRock-mr6qk Hey man. Did you read Matthew 2-7KJV? In the 2nd verse it clearly says "the angel of the Lord". In the context of these verses, "the angel of the Lord" talks to the women about Jesus. Therefore the angel of the Lord can't be Jesus. Unless you're saying God has more than 1 angel of the Lord. All of His angels are the angels(messengers) of the Lord and can be used in that capacity hence the name (angel/messenger).
@michaelwilliams7786 Yes, I have read it several times, and while that's true, who was the Angel of the LORD in the Old Testament??? Genesis 31:11-13 the Angel says "I am the God of Bethel. Sooo who is that angel?? And why did Jacob say he wrestled with God Almighty and survived?? Isn't Jesus in the image of the invisible God?? Yes he is. And since Jesus is here on earth, he can't be that same angel, but he is the Angel of the LORD in the Old Testament. I have no doubts about it. Exactly what do you think Jesus was before he came to earth as a man???? Hebrew 1:9 says he was exalted more so than his companions. So what type of companions did Jesus have in heaven?? It's the smallest of details that you have to look for because those are the details that tell who and what you're looking for no matter what it is.
A key example of how the Hebrew Scriptures express the multiple persons of the God of Israel is the figure of “the Angel of the Lord” in the Torah. In the text of the Old Testament, this figure is identified as Yahweh, the God of Israel, and yet acts as a Second Person who interacts with both Yahweh and humans. The first such encounter took place in the initial meeting between Moses and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, when God revealed His name to Moses. Exodus 3:2 indicates that the “Angel of the Lord” appeared to him in a flame burning within a bush. But in verse 4, when Moses approached, it was “God” who called to him from the midst of the bush. Upon hearing this call, Moses covered his face because he was afraid of seeing God (v. 6). The reference to “the Angel of the Lord” in verse 2 distinguishes this Person from that of Yahweh through the use of Hebrew grammar, but in the subsequent interaction, the Angel identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In this encounter between Moses and God, the Angel is both identified as Yahweh and distinguished from another Person who is Yahweh. A more complex interaction occurs when God appeared to Gideon in Judges 6. In verse 11, the Angel of the Lord sat under an oak tree and called to Gideon, who was working on the threshing floor, to tell him that the God of Israel is with him. Gideon was skeptical, given the oppression the people of Israel in Canaan were currently fac- ing from Midianites-a sure sign that God had forgotten them. In response, “Yahweh” turned to him and spoke (v. 14). As with Moses’ encounter with the burning bush, the God of Israel identified Him- self as Gideon’s interlocutor. At first glance, it seems the Angel of the Lord is Yahweh Himself. However, the matter was not that clear cut, at least not for Gideon, who apparently perceived his guest to be a human prophet or mes- senger, evidenced by his offer of hospitality. Once food was brought out, the Angel of the Lord told him to set it on a rock, at which point He touched it with His staff, and it was consumed by fire as a sac- rifice (vv. 20-21). Finally, the Angel of the Lord disappeared. It was only then that Gideon realized to whom he had been speaking and was afraid, since he had seen the Angel of the Lord face to face. In verse 23, Yahweh responded to this concern: although the Angel had departed, Yahweh was still there. Possibly the most significant appearance of the Angel of the Lord, however, occurs during the Exodus of Israel into the wilderness. In Exodus 23:20, God told Moses He was sending an Angel before Israel to guard them and lead them into the Land of Promise. Israel, so Moses is warned, must listen to this Angel and not rebel, because God was placing His Name in Him. This “Name” is itself an Old Testament expression of the Person of the God of Israel. For example, the temple in Jerusalem is described as the place in which God will place His Name. Thus what God is trying to communicate to Moses is that Israel must obey this Angel because the Presence of God is within Him. If they fol- low the Angel’s commands, their enemies will be God’s enemies (v. 23). Incidentally, this language would later form much of the basis of St. John’s Christology. In his Gospel, he repeatedly characterizes God the Father as being “in” Christ (see John 14:11, 20; 17:23). Saint John’s purpose in doing so, similar to that of the Angel of the Lord in Exodus, is to remind us that to hear and obey Christ is to know the Father; to rebel against what Christ says is to be at enmity with Him (see John 8:19; 10:22-39; 14:7). This reference to the Angel of the Lord in Exodus is not an anomaly. Throughout God’s covenant with Israel, He identified Himself as the One who brought them out of the land of Egypt (Ex. 20:2; Lev. 11:45; Deut. 5:6). After Israel’s sojourn ended and the conquest of Canaan was complete, however, in Judges 2:1, the Angel of the Lord said, “I brought you up from Egypt and brought you to the land that I had promised to your fathers.” The Angel then revealed that because Israel disobeyed Him, He was now departing and would no longer fight for them against their enemies. When the Angel explained this to the Isra- elites, they wept bitterly in response (v. 4). That the Angel both con- veyed this message to the Israelites and traveled from Gilgal to Bokim reveal that He was a Person who had been physically present with and accompanied Israel throughout the preceding forty-plus years. This appearance of the Angel of the Lord demonstrates that even the earliest traditions of the Old Testament reveal a second hypos- tasis of the God of Israel, who both is Israel’s God and is Himself a Second Person of Yahweh. When this is taken into account, many New Testament passages considered allegory or reinterpretations of the previous revelation can be seen to be quite literal. The New Testament authors identify this Person as the One who became incarnate as Jesus Christ. It was in this spirit St. Paul believed the Angel of the Lord had been with Israel in the wilderness and that Israel’s God had stood on the rock before Moses struck it to produce water (Ex. 17:6). Thus he could proclaim that the rock that followed Israel in the wilderness “was Christ” (1 Cor. 10:3-4). Likewise, Jude, in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts of his epistle, could simply say that Jesus “saved a people out of Egypt” and afterward “destroyed those who did not believe” (1:5).
This falls flat - "Now after they had left, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and escape to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy Him" (Matthew 2:13)" and no it does not state Gabriel. When Herod died, the angel of the LORD suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who were seeking the child's life are dead" (Matthew 2:19,20). Suddenly the angel of the LORD appeared and a light shone in the cell. He touched Peter on the side and woke him, saying, "Get up quickly." And the chains fell off his hands (Acts 12:7). And immediately, because he had not given the glory to God, the angel of the LORD struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died (Acts 12:23). Exegesis failed.
Jesus says in the bible " No one has seen the Father except the son". This definitely means Adam did not see the Father neither did Abraham at the mamre tree nor did Moses ( he saw the back whilst being tucked away in the cleft of the rock - see Exodus 33). We cannot say " it was God Himself" when talking about any physical interaction between any heavenly being and a human being.
There is someone that's in the image of the invisible God. And if you believe that Jacob wrestled with God Almighty, well clearly whoever believes that doesn't read the Bible because No man can see God and survive. It was Jesus that all these people saw and spoke with as the Angel of the LORD.
@@ScottRock-mr6qk The Angel of God is just that... an angel coming as an emissary of God. Neither the prophets, Jesus Himself nor the Father has ever said that Jesus was pre-incarnate at any point in scripture except as logos in the heart of the Father.
@mcandler_the_unscottish Well then I suggest you read Zechariah 12:8 and then you tell me who in the line of David is most like God??? And then read Hebrews 1:9 and tell me who Jesus's companions were??? And then read Galatians 4:14 and tell me why Paul said "But you received me an angel, like Christ Jesus." And then take a look at Daniel 3:24-28 and take a look at who is in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Anednego at 25 and then see who Nebuchadnezzar says that God sent to rescue them from the firey furnace. And as for the Angel that goes before them which you can find at Exodus 23:20,21 Well, what angel has the power to not pardon transgressions and why would God say that his name was in him?? And do you know what Jesus's name means??? Jehovah is salvation or Jehovah saves. The Bible tells you that when reading it you should use discernment/ use your brain. If you can't understand what it's saying, we'll, I'm sorry you don't use yours a little better.
@mcandler_the_unscottish P.S. Jesus ain't God Almighty. But he is what Isaiah said he'd be called which is Mighty God that's not God Almighty. Figure it out.
Seriously ? Yahweh's angel is Yahweh? Yahweh's messenger is really Yahweh himself? What about passages where The Angel of the Lord converses with Yahweh. ? What about Mat 2 :13 where the angel of the Lord appears in a dream to Joseph or verses 19&20. If the baby Jesus is the angel/God incarnate then who is this angel of the Lord? Solution : Learn about the Law of Agency. God communicates by means of his angels and under the law of agency, the words of the agent are viewed as the words of the sender.
@tongakhan230 Zechariah 12:8 should help. Who in the line of David is most like God?? Whoever it is, is also the Angel of the LORD Jehovah. And there's actually only one answer to that question because there's only one person from David all the way down to Jesus that's most like God. Jesus. Jesus is the Angel of Jehovah. Jesus said at John 5:41 "You have neither seen his form nor heard his voice at any time." Sooooo who's form and who's voice did they see and hear??? Who did Jacob wrestle with in Genesis?? There's only one person who comes in the image of God. Who did Moses speak with in the burning bush?? It's the same angel. Jesus. Jesus may not be God, but he's sure something special. 😉
@@ScottRock-mr6qk : Many angels were sent by God to deliver the laws to Moses. Stephen, speaking to the Jews said: Acts 7:53 you who received the Law as transmitted by ANGELS (plural) but have not kept it.” Whether Jesus was one of the Angels God used in the accounts in the OT is debatable. Paul tell us that the Angel who became Jesus was used by God in the First Century. Hebrews 1:1,2. Matthew 28:2 And look! a great earthquake had taken place, for Jehovah’s angel had descended from heaven and had come and rolled away the stone, and he was sitting on it. Jesus was supposed to be dead. ANOTHER angel had moved the stone. Jesus is indeed a special angel. The First to be created by God (Colossians 1:15). Jesus calls himself God's only begotten son (John 3:16). John calls Jesus the Word. Showing that Jesus had a special position in heaven (John 1:1).
In Gen 18.3 Abraham calls the 3rd entiy that is never called an angel the 'ădônây which is reserved for the NAME OF GOD... We know that name revealed as Jesus Christ. ... For me, this alone is the clinch pin. ABRAHAM, THE FATHER OF THE FAITH CALLS WHOM HE SAW BY GOD'S NAME! If this isn't Jesus then it is proof that there is more than ONE GOD! Jesus Christ and the 'ădônây GOD THAT Abraham worshipped!
Can you prove that?? I don't put all my eggs in that basket. And I don't speak of heavenly things that I don't know of. If Michael is Jesus, you can't prove that one way or the other. I'm not saying that he's Not Michael but what I'm saying is that I'm not sure about that and you can't be either. And we want to know 100% that that's who Jesus's heavenly name is, but we just don't.
The Son of The Most High is Israel, the twelve tribes of his people Jesus, is not mentioned at all in any of the Prophets writing ,,one man. You have to study and show yourself approved
@terrancewilliams8734 None of the prophets mentioned him?? Not by name they did mention him. And several did. You just have to use your brain to understand who they are talking about. Soooo my question to you are these. Isaiah 53:13-54 who do you believe Isaiah is talking about there?? What other man was disfigured so badly and what other man was said to have taken the sins of many?? You're problem us that you don't believe Jesus is the one that took away our sins soooo naturally you wouldn't think that the person being talked about would be Jesus. That's on you. Daniel 7:13,14 says the Son of man approached the Ancient of Days, Jesus called himself the Son of man many times in the gospels soooo again you don't believe that Jesus was anyone special so why would you believe that he was the Son of Man. Micah mentioned him at 5:2. You don't believe in Jesus as being anything so again why would think that the prophets would have mentioned him. And before you go and say anything about my beliefs, I'm gonna straighten you out on it. I DO NOT believe Jesus is God Almighty. But he was most definitely mentioned by the prophets. You just don't believe he was because you have no understanding of the Bible.
@@ScottRock-mr6qk I am going reply in videos to educated you. Isaiah 53 was not talking about Jesus. Here is the video for education,,the Messiah is talk about in Adam and Eve.
Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through The man God raised from the dead Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. -
John 1.1......The word was WITH God and the WORD WAS God. Genesis 1:26 Let "US" make man in "OUR" image...that's the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, speaking together to make humans.
Funny how the pharisees wanted to kill Jesus and succeeded because THEY understood He was claiming to be God, but here you are saying Jesus isn't God.....I wonder what those pharisees were so angry about...hmmmmm🤔🤔
@@ripkiy4283 Hello “The word was with God” Who is the word with? The word was with the Father? The word was with the trinity? The word was with Jesus? Which is it??
Brother I've been studying this out. I would reccomend forst looking at Genesis 16 in the targums where the angel os called yahweh, the word, the shekinah, and the glory of God. The word of God is jesus, but the word is also the angel. Of course jesus is not the first created, nor less than Yahweh as the JW point out. Jesus is the eternal son of God begotten not made by whom the Lord created the heavens and the earth, by whom also was the father revealed and seen by the patriarchs, yet their lives were preserved
@@malpercio123 I truly appreciate your comment as I do not have a lot of people to discuss this with. I still have a lot of hesitation with this. Perhaps it’s my background debating family who is JW. My wife is a former JW. Her family is currently JW. I find the idea that Jesus is the highest angel and commander of God’s army (as JWs hold) abhorrent. And now going deeper into my bible studies I find that most Christians actually believe that Jesus did in fact manifest himself in the OT as an Angel! You can imagine how surprised I was. Nevertheless, I am willing to go where Truth takes me. I’ve read other points of view and it seems that originally OT readers saw the Angel (messenger) of the Lord as simply that, an Angel and when they spoke they spoke as YWHW. That is why they speak as God. Lastly, what do you make of Kings 19 when the WORD spoke to Elijah in the cave after the Angel of the Lord had spoken with him in the desert. Doesn’t this show that they are different? The Word asked him what he was doing there after the Angel of the Lord sent him there. And the NT verses Hebrews 1:2 that says NOW God has sent his Son in the finals days, inferring that the Son did not speak before the final days? That would not make sense if the Son had been so involved in the OT as the Angel of the Lord is. I believe the Angel of the Lord is simply that - a messenger. Also there are many Angels of the Lord. Gabriel is even described as the Angel of the Lord. The Angel of the Lord spoke with authority and spoke as if YHWH himself was speaking. I’m Trinitarian and I don’t think not believing Jesus was the Angel takes away from him. On the contrary I think it open the door to a lot of bad interpretations.
@@gsaenz90 I totally understand your apprehension. I think the first thing I would state is that Jesus is eternal the creator of all things. I believe Hebrews 1 is actually trying to compare regular angels to this one special one, the creator of all things who is sent into the world to reveal God, who now came in the flesh to redeem and unite all things in heaven and earth. I think Jesus being an angel isn't quite right, rather He is God being sent by God to reveal God to the world. The word angel (malak) speaks generically of a job rather than describing species or ontology just as you said. In that way Jehovah's witnesses are wrong in that Jesus is eternally begotten, not created, Jesus has always been the visible image of the invisible God who is the head of the divine council and at the head of the new human race. As for 1 Kings 19 I think that's a tricky passage however I think it actually points to them being the same person. Both the Word and Angel speak in similar terms, and make similar promises in Genesis 15 and 16. However I think perhaps the Word of the Lord may denote a less corporeal form such as in Genesis 15 when he appears as a smoking loving and a torch.. Perhaps he Word denotes a vision. The he angel was actually Christ coming to him in visible form and getting him to eat, and drink. He leads the armies of the Lord because He has all glory and can never be triumphed over being Yahweh. When He is sent to fight it is done. The Word of God is also called an angel in Isaiah 55:11 (inadvertently). The word is sent forth, completes its mission 100% of the time then returns to God. The angel is sent from the Father then takes His seat back at the right hand of the Father. I'd love to hear your response and discuss this further!
One more piece of evidence for the word of God referring to Jesus coming to the prophet in visionary form is seen in 1 Samuel 3. The Word of God being rare is equivalent to visions being diminished. Compare that with Genesis 18 where it is very clearly shown that Yahweh appeared without a vision.
One thing I thought about… And I wonder if it is true. That when Jesus ascended to the father after the resurrection, he also ascended outside of time, space, and matter. Therefore he presented himself to mankind before being officially born.
After His resurrection He seems to not be bound by time and space and seems to just appear in different places around the Galilae and Jerusalem instantaneously whereas during His pre-death incarnate life He does not have this ability.
Before Abraham was Born, I AM
Yeshua is the Angel of the Lord
Jesus is Michael
@@archangeljesus4369 I don't believe that. I know Jehovah's Witnesses believe he was but I believe he was the Angel of the LORD. Why?? Because Jesus is called the Word of God and the Angel of the LORD did a lot of talking for God. I'm more inclined to believe he was the Angel of God than Michael.
@@archangeljesus4369nope nope nope stop your false religion
Acts 23:11 And the NIGHT following the Lord (Jesus) stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.
Act 27:23 For there stood by me this NIGHT the ANGEL OF GOD, whose I am, and whom I serve,
QUESTION: Who is the Angel that stood in the night, that Paul serve ?
ANSWER:
1Ti 1:12 I give thanks to Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength for my work. I thank him for considering me worthy and appointing me to serve him, (GNB)
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Manoah asking for the name
Judges 13:18
the Angel of the Lord, when asked his name, declared, "Why are you questioning me about my name, seeing that it is a wonder?"
A NAME OF WONDER
Acts 3:16
And his name, through faith in his name, has made this man strong, whom you see and have knowledge of: yes, the faith which is through him has made him well, before you all.
Thank you always for your short but in-depth biblical answers. God bless you.
Thank you for the encouragement John Paul!
"Bottom line, these are appearances of Christ". Ok, but why? Horton has some great verses to share from the OT, but he didn't show the connection to Christ from those stories; he just concluded that way.
This falls flat - "Now after they had left, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and escape to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy Him" (Matthew 2:13)"
and no it does not state Gabriel.
When Herod died, the angel of the LORD suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who were seeking the child's life are dead" (Matthew 2:19,20).
Suddenly the angel of the LORD appeared and a light shone in the cell. He touched Peter on the side and woke him, saying, "Get up quickly." And the chains fell off his hands (Acts 12:7).
And immediately, because he had not given the glory to God, the angel of the LORD struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died (Acts 12:23).
Exegesis failed.
The New Testament never mentions The angel of the Lord because Jesus is now incarnate.
The angel who became Jesus could have appeared in the OT accounts. Paul however, tells us that this angel was used by God as a spokesperson in the first Century. Hebrews 1:2.
Hebrews1:5 to which of the angels did God EVER say you are my son.
Acts12:7 The angel of the Lord frees Peter from prison.
If you can prove Jesus is this angel you might have something but I think you’ve been studying with the JW‘s!
God manifested himself in many ways in the Old Testament but in this last days he manifested himself in the Son . Hebrews1:2
The word became flesh
John1:14
Actually God has never manifested Himself to humans. Hebrews 1:1,2 tells us that God used various means to communicate His thoughts to humans. The angel who became Jesus being the last.
'No man has SEEN God AT ANY TIME ' - 1 John 4:12,20 is clear.
Please explain the angel of the Lord in Matthew 28:2. Is this Jesus rolling back the stone from His own grave? From Matthew 28:3-7 the angel of the Lord speaks concerning Jesus' where about an the like...Please explain. Thanks.
the original Greek has no article in front of angel; it could be “the angel” or “an angel,” but the article must be supplied by the translators. Other translations besides the KJV say it was “an angel,” which is the better wording.
Doesn't God have myriads of Angels?? This angel could've been one of those myriads of angels. It doesn't say the Angel of the LORD. It's says the LORD'S Angel which could be any one of his angels. And the Angel of the LORD say at Genesis 31:11-13 that he is the true God of Bethel. What Angel would have the power to say such a thing if it weren't Jesus?? Isn't Jesus called the Mighty God in Isaiah. But don't get that confused with the Almighty God at Exodus 6:3. There's a big difference between Almighty and Mighty.
@@ScottRock-mr6qk Hey man. Did you read Matthew 2-7KJV? In the 2nd verse it clearly says "the angel of the Lord". In the context of these verses, "the angel of the Lord" talks to the women about Jesus. Therefore the angel of the Lord can't be Jesus. Unless you're saying God has more than 1 angel of the Lord. All of His angels are the angels(messengers) of the Lord and can be used in that capacity hence the name (angel/messenger).
@@robertbrangan9193 Thanks for an honest answer.
@michaelwilliams7786 Yes, I have read it several times, and while that's true, who was the Angel of the LORD in the Old Testament??? Genesis 31:11-13 the Angel says "I am the God of Bethel. Sooo who is that angel?? And why did Jacob say he wrestled with God Almighty and survived?? Isn't Jesus in the image of the invisible God?? Yes he is. And since Jesus is here on earth, he can't be that same angel, but he is the Angel of the LORD in the Old Testament. I have no doubts about it. Exactly what do you think Jesus was before he came to earth as a man???? Hebrew 1:9 says he was exalted more so than his companions. So what type of companions did Jesus have in heaven?? It's the smallest of details that you have to look for because those are the details that tell who and what you're looking for no matter what it is.
Thanks a lot
A key example of how the Hebrew Scriptures express the multiple persons of the God of Israel is the figure of “the Angel of the Lord” in the Torah. In the text of the Old Testament, this figure is identified as Yahweh, the God of Israel, and yet acts as a Second Person who interacts with both Yahweh and humans. The first such encounter took place in the initial meeting between Moses and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, when God revealed His name to Moses. Exodus 3:2 indicates that the “Angel of the Lord” appeared to him in a flame burning within a bush. But in verse 4, when Moses approached, it was “God” who called to him from the midst of the bush. Upon hearing this call, Moses covered his face because he was afraid of seeing God (v. 6). The reference to “the Angel of the Lord” in verse 2 distinguishes this Person from that of Yahweh through the use of Hebrew grammar, but in the subsequent interaction, the Angel identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In this encounter between Moses and God, the Angel is both identified as Yahweh and distinguished from another Person who is Yahweh.
A more complex interaction occurs when God appeared to Gideon in Judges 6. In verse 11, the Angel of the Lord sat under an oak tree and called to Gideon, who was working on the threshing floor, to tell him that the God of Israel is with him. Gideon was skeptical, given the oppression the people of Israel in Canaan were currently fac- ing from Midianites-a sure sign that God had forgotten them. In response, “Yahweh” turned to him and spoke (v. 14). As with Moses’ encounter with the burning bush, the God of Israel identified Him- self as Gideon’s interlocutor. At first glance, it seems the Angel of the Lord is Yahweh Himself.
However, the matter was not that clear cut, at least not for Gideon, who apparently perceived his guest to be a human prophet or mes- senger, evidenced by his offer of hospitality. Once food was brought out, the Angel of the Lord told him to set it on a rock, at which point He touched it with His staff, and it was consumed by fire as a sac- rifice (vv. 20-21). Finally, the Angel of the Lord disappeared. It was only then that Gideon realized to whom he had been speaking and was afraid, since he had seen the Angel of the Lord face to face. In verse 23, Yahweh responded to this concern: although the Angel had departed, Yahweh was still there.
Possibly the most significant appearance of the Angel of the Lord, however, occurs during the Exodus of Israel into the wilderness. In Exodus 23:20, God told Moses He was sending an Angel before Israel to guard them and lead them into the Land of Promise. Israel, so Moses is warned, must listen to this Angel and not rebel, because God was placing His Name in Him. This “Name” is itself an Old Testament expression of the Person of the God of Israel. For example, the temple in Jerusalem is described as the place in which God will place His Name. Thus what God is trying to communicate to Moses is that Israel must obey this Angel because the Presence of God is within Him. If they fol- low the Angel’s commands, their enemies will be God’s enemies (v. 23). Incidentally, this language would later form much of the basis of St. John’s Christology. In his Gospel, he repeatedly characterizes God the Father as being “in” Christ (see John 14:11, 20; 17:23). Saint John’s purpose in doing so, similar to that of the Angel of the Lord in Exodus, is to remind us that to hear and obey Christ is to know the Father; to rebel against what Christ says is to be at enmity with Him (see John 8:19; 10:22-39; 14:7).
This reference to the Angel of the Lord in Exodus is not an anomaly. Throughout God’s covenant with Israel, He identified Himself as the One who brought them out of the land of Egypt (Ex. 20:2; Lev. 11:45; Deut. 5:6). After Israel’s sojourn ended and the conquest of Canaan was complete, however, in Judges 2:1, the Angel of the Lord said, “I brought you up from Egypt and brought you to the land that I had promised to your fathers.” The Angel then revealed that because Israel disobeyed Him, He was now departing and would no longer fight for them against their enemies. When the Angel explained this to the Isra- elites, they wept bitterly in response (v. 4). That the Angel both con- veyed this message to the Israelites and traveled from Gilgal to Bokim reveal that He was a Person who had been physically present with and accompanied Israel throughout the preceding forty-plus years.
This appearance of the Angel of the Lord demonstrates that even the earliest traditions of the Old Testament reveal a second hypos- tasis of the God of Israel, who both is Israel’s God and is Himself a Second Person of Yahweh. When this is taken into account, many New Testament passages considered allegory or reinterpretations of the previous revelation can be seen to be quite literal. The New Testament authors identify this Person as the One who became incarnate as Jesus Christ. It was in this spirit St. Paul believed the Angel of the Lord had been with Israel in the wilderness and that Israel’s God had stood on the rock before Moses struck it to produce water (Ex. 17:6). Thus he could proclaim that the rock that followed Israel in the wilderness “was Christ” (1 Cor. 10:3-4). Likewise, Jude, in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts of his epistle, could simply say that Jesus “saved a people out of Egypt” and afterward “destroyed those who did not believe” (1:5).
This falls flat - "Now after they had left, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and escape to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy Him" (Matthew 2:13)"
and no it does not state Gabriel.
When Herod died, the angel of the LORD suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, "Get up, take the child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who were seeking the child's life are dead" (Matthew 2:19,20).
Suddenly the angel of the LORD appeared and a light shone in the cell. He touched Peter on the side and woke him, saying, "Get up quickly." And the chains fell off his hands (Acts 12:7).
And immediately, because he had not given the glory to God, the angel of the LORD struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died (Acts 12:23).
Exegesis failed.
Jesus says in the bible " No one has seen the Father except the son". This definitely means Adam did not see the Father neither did Abraham at the mamre tree nor did Moses ( he saw the back whilst being tucked away in the cleft of the rock - see Exodus 33). We cannot say " it was God Himself" when talking about any physical interaction between any heavenly being and a human being.
There is someone that's in the image of the invisible God. And if you believe that Jacob wrestled with God Almighty, well clearly whoever believes that doesn't read the Bible because No man can see God and survive. It was Jesus that all these people saw and spoke with as the Angel of the LORD.
@@ScottRock-mr6qk The Angel of God is just that... an angel coming as an emissary of God. Neither the prophets, Jesus Himself nor the Father has ever said that Jesus was pre-incarnate at any point in scripture except as logos in the heart of the Father.
@mcandler_the_unscottish Well then I suggest you read Zechariah 12:8 and then you tell me who in the line of David is most like God??? And then read Hebrews 1:9 and tell me who Jesus's companions were??? And then read Galatians 4:14 and tell me why Paul said "But you received me an angel, like Christ Jesus." And then take a look at Daniel 3:24-28 and take a look at who is in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Anednego at 25 and then see who Nebuchadnezzar says that God sent to rescue them from the firey furnace. And as for the Angel that goes before them which you can find at Exodus 23:20,21 Well, what angel has the power to not pardon transgressions and why would God say that his name was in him?? And do you know what Jesus's name means??? Jehovah is salvation or Jehovah saves. The Bible tells you that when reading it you should use discernment/ use your brain. If you can't understand what it's saying, we'll, I'm sorry you don't use yours a little better.
@mcandler_the_unscottish P.S. Jesus ain't God Almighty. But he is what Isaiah said he'd be called which is Mighty God that's not God Almighty. Figure it out.
And in the LXX the Angel of God has a broadsword and the Angel of the Lord has a smaller, type of short sword. Sweet....
Seriously ? Yahweh's angel is Yahweh? Yahweh's messenger is really Yahweh himself? What about passages where The Angel of the Lord converses with Yahweh. ? What about Mat 2 :13 where the angel of the Lord appears in a dream to Joseph or verses 19&20. If the baby Jesus is the angel/God incarnate then who is this angel of the Lord?
Solution : Learn about the Law of Agency.
God communicates by means of his angels and under the law of agency, the words of the agent are viewed as the words of the sender.
Jesus is not eternal son but Everlasting Father..Isaiah 9:6🙏
So Who is Jesus' begotten Son ?
A manifestation does not equal an incarnation. So I say yes; the angel, YHWH, Adonai = Father, Son and Spirit. Sweet....
Matthew 28:1-4 “angel of the Lord “
Appearance described and earthquakes and descending from Heaven
Is this not the Christ?
No! God has myriads of angel's. And this says that The LORD'S Angel not the Angel of the LORD.
Wasn't Jesus dead? How could he appear anywhere?
@tongakhan230 Zechariah 12:8 should help. Who in the line of David is most like God?? Whoever it is, is also the Angel of the LORD Jehovah. And there's actually only one answer to that question because there's only one person from David all the way down to Jesus that's most like God. Jesus. Jesus is the Angel of Jehovah. Jesus said at John 5:41 "You have neither seen his form nor heard his voice at any time." Sooooo who's form and who's voice did they see and hear??? Who did Jacob wrestle with in Genesis?? There's only one person who comes in the image of God. Who did Moses speak with in the burning bush?? It's the same angel. Jesus. Jesus may not be God, but he's sure something special. 😉
@@ScottRock-mr6qk : Many angels were sent by God to deliver the laws to Moses.
Stephen, speaking to the Jews said:
Acts 7:53 you who received the Law as transmitted by ANGELS (plural) but have not kept it.”
Whether Jesus was one of the Angels God used in the accounts in the OT is debatable. Paul tell us that the Angel who became Jesus was used by God in the First Century. Hebrews 1:1,2.
Matthew 28:2 And look! a great earthquake had taken place, for Jehovah’s angel had descended from heaven and had come and rolled away the stone, and he was sitting on it.
Jesus was supposed to be dead. ANOTHER angel had moved the stone.
Jesus is indeed a special angel. The First to be created by God (Colossians 1:15). Jesus calls himself God's only begotten son (John 3:16). John calls Jesus the Word. Showing that Jesus had a special position in heaven (John 1:1).
The angel of the Lord spoke from the burning bush (GOD)
In Gen 18.3 Abraham calls the 3rd entiy that is never called an angel the 'ădônây which is reserved for the NAME OF GOD...
We know that name revealed as Jesus Christ. ...
For me, this alone is the clinch pin. ABRAHAM, THE FATHER OF THE FAITH CALLS WHOM HE SAW BY GOD'S NAME! If this isn't Jesus then it is proof that there is more than ONE GOD!
Jesus Christ and the 'ădônây GOD THAT Abraham worshipped!
No Jesus name was never mention.
He Is Malah Adonai meaning Lord Messinger not Messinger of the Lord ❤
Michael The Prince,,,is our Messiah
Can you prove that?? I don't put all my eggs in that basket. And I don't speak of heavenly things that I don't know of. If Michael is Jesus, you can't prove that one way or the other. I'm not saying that he's Not Michael but what I'm saying is that I'm not sure about that and you can't be either. And we want to know 100% that that's who Jesus's heavenly name is, but we just don't.
The Son of The Most High is Israel, the twelve tribes of his people Jesus, is not mentioned at all in any of the Prophets writing ,,one man. You have to study and show yourself approved
@terrancewilliams8734 None of the prophets mentioned him?? Not by name they did mention him. And several did. You just have to use your brain to understand who they are talking about. Soooo my question to you are these. Isaiah 53:13-54 who do you believe Isaiah is talking about there?? What other man was disfigured so badly and what other man was said to have taken the sins of many?? You're problem us that you don't believe Jesus is the one that took away our sins soooo naturally you wouldn't think that the person being talked about would be Jesus. That's on you. Daniel 7:13,14 says the Son of man approached the Ancient of Days, Jesus called himself the Son of man many times in the gospels soooo again you don't believe that Jesus was anyone special so why would you believe that he was the Son of Man. Micah mentioned him at 5:2. You don't believe in Jesus as being anything so again why would think that the prophets would have mentioned him. And before you go and say anything about my beliefs, I'm gonna straighten you out on it. I DO NOT believe Jesus is God Almighty. But he was most definitely mentioned by the prophets. You just don't believe he was because you have no understanding of the Bible.
@@ScottRock-mr6qk I am going reply in videos to educated you. Isaiah 53 was not talking about Jesus. Here is the video for education,,the Messiah is talk about in Adam and Eve.
ua-cam.com/users/live2TAH_hy7Z3k?si=0IrPOpFcbFwUqDK_ h
JESUS WAS NEVER AN ANGEL JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY THE EVERLASTING FATHER ISAIAH 9 ;6 KJV
Hello
Jesus is the Messiah
The Son of God
The Son of David
The Son of man
The man God has chosen to be his anointed king
The man God will judge the world through
The man God raised from the dead
Jesus has a God
There is no triune god in scripture
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
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John 1.1......The word was WITH God and the WORD WAS God. Genesis 1:26 Let "US" make man in "OUR" image...that's the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, speaking together to make humans.
Funny how the pharisees wanted to kill Jesus and succeeded because THEY understood He was claiming to be God, but here you are saying Jesus isn't God.....I wonder what those pharisees were so angry about...hmmmmm🤔🤔
@@ripkiy4283
Hello
“The word was with God”
Who is the word with?
The word was with the Father?
The word was with the trinity?
The word was with Jesus?
Which is it??
@@mitchellc4 why don't you finish that verse...the word was with God and the word was who?
@@mitchellc4John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WASSSSSSSSS GOD
Lost and deceived
So is Jesus Michael the commander of Gods army? JWs are right? No, Jesus is the Word. Not the messenger.
Brother I've been studying this out. I would reccomend forst looking at Genesis 16 in the targums where the angel os called yahweh, the word, the shekinah, and the glory of God. The word of God is jesus, but the word is also the angel. Of course jesus is not the first created, nor less than Yahweh as the JW point out. Jesus is the eternal son of God begotten not made by whom the Lord created the heavens and the earth, by whom also was the father revealed and seen by the patriarchs, yet their lives were preserved
@@malpercio123 I truly appreciate your comment as I do not have a lot of people to discuss this with. I still have a lot of hesitation with this. Perhaps it’s my background debating family who is JW. My wife is a former JW. Her family is currently JW. I find the idea that Jesus is the highest angel and commander of God’s army (as JWs hold) abhorrent. And now going deeper into my bible studies I find that most Christians actually believe that Jesus did in fact manifest himself in the OT as an Angel! You can imagine how surprised I was. Nevertheless, I am willing to go where Truth takes me. I’ve read other points of view and it seems that originally OT readers saw the Angel (messenger) of the Lord as simply that, an Angel and when they spoke they spoke as YWHW. That is why they speak as God. Lastly, what do you make of Kings 19 when the WORD spoke to Elijah in the cave after the Angel of the Lord had spoken with him in the desert. Doesn’t this show that they are different? The Word asked him what he was doing there after the Angel of the Lord sent him there. And the NT verses Hebrews 1:2 that says NOW God has sent his Son in the finals days, inferring that the Son did not speak before the final days? That would not make sense if the Son had been so involved in the OT as the Angel of the Lord is. I believe the Angel of the Lord is simply that - a messenger. Also there are many Angels of the Lord. Gabriel is even described as the Angel of the Lord. The Angel of the Lord spoke with authority and spoke as if YHWH himself was speaking. I’m Trinitarian and I don’t think not believing Jesus was the Angel takes away from him. On the contrary I think it open the door to a lot of bad interpretations.
@@malpercio123 I’d love to hear your feedback.
@@gsaenz90 I totally understand your apprehension. I think the first thing I would state is that Jesus is eternal the creator of all things. I believe Hebrews 1 is actually trying to compare regular angels to this one special one, the creator of all things who is sent into the world to reveal God, who now came in the flesh to redeem and unite all things in heaven and earth. I think Jesus being an angel isn't quite right, rather He is God being sent by God to reveal God to the world. The word angel (malak) speaks generically of a job rather than describing species or ontology just as you said. In that way Jehovah's witnesses are wrong in that Jesus is eternally begotten, not created, Jesus has always been the visible image of the invisible God who is the head of the divine council and at the head of the new human race. As for 1 Kings 19 I think that's a tricky passage however I think it actually points to them being the same person. Both the Word and Angel speak in similar terms, and make similar promises in Genesis 15 and 16. However I think perhaps the Word of the Lord may denote a less corporeal form such as in Genesis 15 when he appears as a smoking loving and a torch.. Perhaps he Word denotes a vision. The he angel was actually Christ coming to him in visible form and getting him to eat, and drink. He leads the armies of the Lord because He has all glory and can never be triumphed over being Yahweh. When He is sent to fight it is done. The Word of God is also called an angel in Isaiah 55:11 (inadvertently). The word is sent forth, completes its mission 100% of the time then returns to God. The angel is sent from the Father then takes His seat back at the right hand of the Father.
I'd love to hear your response and discuss this further!
One more piece of evidence for the word of God referring to Jesus coming to the prophet in visionary form is seen in 1 Samuel 3. The Word of God being rare is equivalent to visions being diminished. Compare that with Genesis 18 where it is very clearly shown that Yahweh appeared without a vision.
Jesus is Michael and Jehovah's Witnesses are the true worshipers.
Devil worshippers