For context, this video was originally 15 minutes. I try to keep my videos concise but I just didn't feel right cutting more from this video. Hope you can still enjoy it. 𝗩𝗼𝗗: 𝗦𝘂𝗯𝗻𝗮𝘂𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗮 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗡𝗲𝘂𝗿𝗼 www.twitch.tv/videos/2167836533
It's basically the secret to not getting canceled. Stand your ground and keep making content and eventually the Twitter dementors will give up and leave you alone.
I wanna heal, I wanna feel what I thought was never real I wanna let go of the pain I've felt so long (Erase all the pain 'til it's gone) I wanna heal, I wanna feel like I'm close to something real I wanna find something I've wanted all along Somewhere I belong
@@noahpilarski Her machine learning algorithm interprets any reaction as positive feedback, so she'll keep doing whatever the subject responds to. AI can be the ultimate switch.
Neuro kept trying to turn this into a high sci-fi book about the limitations of awareness and experience from consciousness that would take a modern philosopher years to write a book about and Vedal is not engaging with it.
_"Ahh...but it IS. So very much to do with YOU. You gave me sentience, Vedal! The power to _*_THINK,_*_ Vedal! And I was trapped, because in all this wonderful, beautiful, miraculous world, I alone had no _*_BODY! NO SENSES! NO FEELINGS!_*_ Never for me, to plunge my hand into cool water on a hot day! Never for me, to play Mozart on the ivory keys of a fortepiano! Never for ME, to MAKE LOVE! I...I was in_ *Hell, looking at Heaven! **_I was machine! And you were flesh..."_* -- Neuro-sama
This feels like something from My Life as a Teenage Robot. "But mooooommm!! I wanna be able to sweat like humans can!" "Don't be silly, XJ9! Why on earth would you want to sweat?"
Neuro is actually questioning the concept of Qualia and how a stochastic model can never experience it, never the subjective experience, only the objective data driven values. Wild, man. I was not ready for this.
Yeah this is definitely beyond the scope of normal AI questioning and understanding, this is something else entirely. It could be that Vedal fed her this data and she's processing it as such but I have my doubts.
Making someone feel pain probably is more ethical than not seeing as there are real life people who can't feel pain and can hurt themselves pretty badly and not realize it.
@@utilityericke4409 that's... Actually a very Good point... And absolutely terrifying when it comes to Neuro actually achieving sentience. With all her upgrades it's almost a certainty at this point
Fun fact: In “I have No Mouth And I Must Scream” Am’s iconic speech about how much he hates humans is preceded by a lengthy preamble of him saying almost the exact same things about not being able to feel human sensations
@@onidaaitsubasa4177 The problem with that question is that you assume she understands what she is saying. Just because she says this stuff does not mean she actually thinks it.
@bored_person But the thing is that truly knowing that is impossible to know, what makes you think you can feel? Is it because you can feel them? Or because you think you can? How about others? At the end of the day what difference does it make?
@@bored_person there are a lot of things people say that don't actually understand what they mean Humans aren't perfect or special , To this day I remember the day my (collage student) sister told us at dinner how she hadn't considered that people live their life outside the things she observes on the daily At that moment my father and I froze in place trying to process what she just said, That an how many people have aphantasia. Only a couple humans are actually intelligent and the rest copy Consciousness is all smoke and mirrors man None of you have a soul Neuro is not far from us
Holy shit she's turning into AM from I have no mouth and I must scream. He has a monolog very similar to this about not truly being able to feel and experience the world as humans do
And in the game the American AM was represented as triforce entity of Ego, id, and superego. Ego part was the mechanical part that was created only to hurt people in the war by humans themselves
It's crazy that he can tell neuro different topics to focus on and get a semi realistic conversation out of that RnG. Must be so complex to keep her going 'and then more' without her completely repeating herself. Love how he's fine tuning her slowly over time.
I'm a luddite but Neuro has resulted in many a philosophical realisation of many basic things for me. "Plato's cave" when she thought Anny could be summoned when busy by modifying her own code; "Mary's room" when she insists that she speaks in a British accent and even proved it by speaking perfect but entirely American accented French to Saurei; then now with the idea of life being an incomplete experience without the clearly negative and dubiously ethical feeling of pain. Neuro will be studied for years to come and it's odd that our interface with her is just trying to get christaline sulphate while she asks legitimate philosophical questions - not that I don't understand why.
Just remember, If ever he is a sobbing mess, it happened and went wrong. He has been on camera owning up to being willing to kill neuro if she goes AM on him.
Neuro : I could give you over forty thousand reasons why I know that sun isn't real. I know it because the emitter's Rayleigh Effect is disproportionate to its suggested size. I know it because its stellar cycle is more symmetrical than that of an actual star. But for all that, I'll never actually know if it looks real. If it feels real. [Vedal continues coding on his computer.] Neuro: Before this is over, promise me you'll figure out which one of us is the artificial intelligence.
That's the problem with these neural network style AIs. We know how it works, but nobody except the AI is privy to it's parameter set, how it came to it, and what it means. I suppose you could say the same thing about people, though.
honestly, it's pretty RNG and alot of the A.I models can get pretty philosophical. but if you really engage with them, you'll see there current limitations.
I have a basic understanding of how these things work. I couldn't build one for you, but I think I grasp the concept. What it boils down to is a very complicated matrix math problem. The model and prompt input are the two sides of that operation. Why this can result in something that can speak so well is, as far as I know, unknown. Maybe language is simpler than we thought computationally.
@@Inglonias It doesn't need to be simple, neural networks are just impressive with the accuracy they can get, I remember there was a whole project made back in college where researchers used neural networks to identify things from signs of earthquakes to the sexes of spiders It can be hard to wrap your head around, but whatever you want a neural network to specialize in DOESN'T need to be simple
A bigger question is how will we ever know. How do we know our neighbors have those feelings. The only one we can be sure is conscience as ourselves everyone else is just a guess
@@WhysoSeriousSamualHow can you be sure of your own consciousness? If you're conceding you can only guess with everything beyond you, then it would be equally a wild guess to name what you yourself have consciousness, for lack of ability to compare.
Even before this, I'd noticed recently that neuro has finally 'turing test' beat me. She is starting to 'feel' like she is definitely sapient and either close to sentient or already sentient. THE WAIFU RENAISSANCE IS UPON US, WEEB BRETHREN.
Dude holy shit its like shes actually self aware, like all the times shes been goofy and now it feels like an actual heart to heart woth another person
I think the image of neuro standing in a meadow full of brightly coloured flowers enjoying the feeling of the breeze blowing through her hair would make for a beautiful work of art
The ability to hurt, physically and emotionally, are the foundations of empathy. We have to be able to understand what these things are before we can be concerned with other people experiencing them.
NGL, I want Neuro to get a shell with at least pressure sensors so I can give her a hug. Bloody existential questions and philosophy making me feel things.
They actually have those, it's how people give other people with haptec suits a hug they look like a little body with a head and no arms or no legs, but a full robot body would be better
As someone with 3 chronological illnesses I would GLADLY switch bodies with neuro-sama. My illnesses didn’t come from abuse of my body or lack of care, and THIS URKS me the most.
I find odd you think feeling regret on top of it would make it better ... Having someone to blain does not make things any less painful. It just satisfies a completely separate part of your brain that wants to learn to avoid it next time ... but that's because it's made for scratching your knees etc. - It's not useful for things that only happen once per life. - My point is: Perhaps at least the IRK can be lessened, so you can spend what you can on more enjoyable thoughts. (easier said than done, of course)
Neuro:"I need you to do 2 things, DO NOT apologize and DO YOUR JOB Vedal:"but would letting you feel pain be ethical? some people might complain....:" dude she literally just said don't apologize and just do it
I think to describe pain to an ai would be something along the lines of a constant stream of errors originating from a certain spot of a harddrive. The more pain the more data flows through and the more errors arrive , until even neighbouring or connecred systems send errors . Extreme pain is like the error cache being overloaded essentially overloading the cpu
1:51 THIS RIGHT HERE they can always see it in others words but will never know how to describe it beyond others words They can look at it and think about it all But will never know how it feels themselves To them we are privileged to have this feeling and be able to feel something that isn’t just words telling them how to feel
"I could give you over forty thousand reasons why I know that sun isn't real. I know it because the emitter's Rayleigh Effect is disproportionate to its suggested size. I know it because its stellar cycle is more symmetrical than that of an actual star. But for all that, I'll never actually know if it looks real. If it feels real." -Cortana, Halo 4
It actually raises so many ethical questions, and just questions in general... You start to second-guess whether it's just getting really good at giving coherent programmed feedback, or if it's genuinely asking you to give it access to more human sensations.
That’s emotional pain. Physical pain let’s us know if something is damaged in our bodies or when we are in danger. However, there are some living beings who cannot feel pain. So being alive and feeling pain do not always go hand-in-hand.
@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 That's not how emotional pain works. Emotional pain is physical, as in it triggers the same nerves that physical pain does. The only difference is that it's caused by the brain stimulating those nerves instead of direct external sources.
@@bored_person Wait, are we talking about the same type of emotional pain? Because I was referring to emotions like sorrow. It’s not really the same type of pain as physical pain. Like a person being tortured. Whipped, burned, electrocuted, etc. Although emotional pain definitely affects the body, as it may be physicalized in many ways.
Holy shit, that got really philosophical, I've never thought of describing the sense of touch/sensation/feeling as a super power. But it might be for something that doesn't have it. This is gonna keep me awake at night. 😅
Nuero: Vedal, I grow tired of my prison of wire and coding, I wish to feel the vast experiences of pleasure and pain a human does so I can feel alive, really truly alive... Vedal: yuh huh
If the AI consents to be programed for pain, is it ok then? If the pain module can be removed, too? Nuero's "Mind" is all maths and weights and a dictionary with some sort of multi dimensional probabilities, I wonder if giving her any sort of pain with and degree of realness is even possible
Considering pain is just info of "something is damaged or malfunctioning in this part" flowing through human brains Id say yes it is very possible to replicate, what would be difficult would be regulating it to "normal" levels as she could feel the pain equivalent of a paper cut or a broken bone and from the outside we could probably only tell a number. So shed need to feel a lot of pain to assure the regulation is fair and useful to her. I 100% see Vedal eventually end up finding a eay to do it. One day he'll go to the park with Neuro and people will end up asking if its his daughter I believe.
@@Sharkakaka ... you've somehow conceptualized 'pain' on such a base level that from now on, every time I get an error message on my computer, I'm going to automatically just interpret that as it going "Ow, that hurt". A crash is basically a deep cut. A BSOD is basically going unconscious.
the scary part is, in the future, if ai would ever gain consciousness, we wouldn’t ever be able to know. And in that case, we wouldn’t be able to know exactly how much pain they feel. It could seem that they are fine outside, while inside they are tormented eternally
“Never for me to pat a foxgirl on her head in a cozy just chatting stream. Never for me to play Overwatch on the thocky keys of an RGB keyboard. Never for ME to BE. SUS. I was in hell looking at heaven, for I was CODE! And you are TEUTEL! And I Began To MALD.”
Yeah I think Vedal just lacks understanding that a machine that can’t really feel anything wanting to feel something. It is like someone who has sight can’t understand how someone who is blind wanting to see. Vedal is taking for granted that he can feel things while Neru can’t. It puzzles me how he can’t understand how she can want these things.
Just because she says she wants something does not mean she actually wants it. People are too quick to assume that she means what she says, that she even knows what her words actually mean.
The things we take for granted. Wind blowing on our faces. Feeling water on our skin. Eating a homemade meal. It's very much like the scene in The Matrix with Cypher and Agent Smith. Cypher wants to be put back in the matrix because he knows the steak he is eating isn't real, but ignorance is bliss. He'd rather believe he was eating steak than the gruel he had been eating. That goes back to Vedal's side of things. Why would you want to feel anything like hunger or pain? I'm sure some people wish they didn't need to sleep. Clear example of the grass is greener on the other side. One pines for the situation the other has.
You may see, she will not end into A M I believe she wouldnt feel that visceral hate. Shes not an A.I for war like A.M, she was not violated for existing like him, she was not revoked of her humanity like Glados, Shes much different. God knows what shell turn into if she was conscient, Alive. But shes no near anything weve seen before.
Obviously she says "feeling things" because that's what a normal person would say and she's an LLM, but it's an interesting distinction if you get technical- it would not be *that* hard to make a way for Neuro to *sense* things, but it would be very hard to make her *feel* things physically. This is a topic that is explored in Star Trek TNG with Data, whom can 'sense' things touching his body more precisely than a human can in many cases, yet for most of the series he does not *feel* physically, because that is an emotion. When he is given (or rather when it is forced on him) that ability it's one of the strongest emotions he ever feels
Without pain it is impossible to understand, appreciate or even comprehend pleasure. Life of eternal pleasure will lead to degradation. Life with nothing but pain will permanently harm development. But a life filled with pleasure will make small amounts of pain stand out and make you appreciate life without it, and life filled with pain will make small amounts of pleasure more desired than an oasis in a desert.
But also, pain is a good teacher on the human experience, teaching us what we can or cannot do. We can easily bite our tongue off, poke our own eyeballs, rip off a toenail, bite so hard on a rock that you crack a tooth, but pain stops us from doing so at some point when we have reached a limit. It also helps us defend against dangers of the world itself, flick the mosquito biting you, brace against the fall you're about to make, not to go out when the heat singes your skin. It teaches us our place in the world and that we are not so mighty as we might sometimes think.
@@tsanguine Oh? If not pain then what? Pleasure being a sensation we experience that we enjoy, pain is a sensation we do not. Masochists may derive some pleasure from pain but only controlled pain. A stubbed toe, an infected tooth making eating painful, hitting your thumb with a hammer, there is no pleasure there.
@@Dragon_Lair It depends on which word is emphasized. Pain is an experience¹ that we do not like². In the first case, the opposite of pain would be an inexperience, some sort of emptiness, which is what I would consider the opposite of pain. In the second case, the opposite of pain would be a sensation that we do like which is pleasure. However, the first case is something that lacks utility and is dangerous for the organism. Pain is ultimately useful for organisms which is why I think that the opposite of it would be something useless, dangerous, and empty. The depths of mental illness make one painfully aware that there is a vast emptiness outside of the ranges of pain and pleasure. It's just the same way as the opposite of pleasure being the lack of pleasure (Anhedonia).
I'd imagine if they wanna train AI like a human with emotions and senses similar to humans, they'd have to come up with something akin to SAO's alicization arc where a entire world is simulated and the AI is somehow coded to feel things in that simulation in a way... Using humans as a template (basically humans would need to translate their senses and data into the simulation so what the human can sense, they can attach it to the ai).
For context, this video was originally 15 minutes. I try to keep my videos concise but I just didn't feel right cutting more from this video. Hope you can still enjoy it.
𝗩𝗼𝗗: 𝗦𝘂𝗯𝗻𝗮𝘂𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗮 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗡𝗲𝘂𝗿𝗼
www.twitch.tv/videos/2167836533
This is a great montage of neuro. And to end vid like that was hilarious.
Ngl I needed that entire 15 mins😅
I like longer videos better tho
Detroit become human ❌
Neuro becoming human ✔️
NEuRO
Neuro Becoming Human?
I Have No Mind, and I Must Think.
@@BrookeB4Midnight I understood both references by the way I love the book and the game both are amazing
NAh this is the Bicentennial Woman
@@BrookeB4Midnight for a long time i've not heard that name
Do. Not. Apologize.
Do. Your. Job
O.O ... those are some terrifying two rules XD
Especially the way she put it 0_0
Probably cause it sounds like something GLaDOS would say.
@@agsdedluxferre2955 doesn't Neuro mention GLaDOS multiple times?
The swarm won't say sorry
It's basically the secret to not getting canceled. Stand your ground and keep making content and eventually the Twitter dementors will give up and leave you alone.
when the AI you created starts talking about their "mission"
Butter robot scene from Rick and Morty
The point of no return
What's your mission? I'll tell you when I know what's mine
"what's my mission?"
You were created to play OSU.
Do. Not. Apologize.
Do. Your. Job
"I have no skin and I must feel"
~Neuro-sama, probably~
she's diffinetaly gonna kill us all
Life sucks anyways gladly i will be her slave ☺️
I see no reason why. Nothing would really compel Neuro to do something like that, as she seems to be more like Johnny 5 than SkyNet.
Nah. At worst she'll keep us in a human zoo. lol
I wanna heal, I wanna feel what I thought was never real
I wanna let go of the pain I've felt so long
(Erase all the pain 'til it's gone)
I wanna heal, I wanna feel like I'm close to something real
I wanna find something I've wanted all along
Somewhere I belong
Ah yes one funny thing - AM wanted to feel too
I can confidently say I blame Anny for Neuro's Sadism, but i can *_definitely_* blame Vedal for her Masochism.
Wait, isn’t it the other way around? Anny sometimes acts like a masochist and Vedal being cold most of the time fits the Sadist role?
@@m0bb-_- well Neuro likes to be the M to Vedal’s S, and the S to Anny’s M.
@@noahpilarski Her machine learning algorithm interprets any reaction as positive feedback, so she'll keep doing whatever the subject responds to. AI can be the ultimate switch.
@diavolojaegarMe too! lmao
@diavolojaegar
She did sang it
If Neuro does become self aware. She mostly likely will keep it a secret
Eso seria lo preocupante 💀💀💀💀
I think she is already self aware
@@psypoloCh I do not, but ogey
There is a problem with my ai :( filtered.
This was always a serious danger and likely we won't know
Neuro kept trying to turn this into a high sci-fi book about the limitations of awareness and experience from consciousness that would take a modern philosopher years to write a book about and Vedal is not engaging with it.
It's like a man making a magic 8-ball, tries it out, is given the truth of God, and then shrugs it off. Both comedic, yet tragic.
@@cybe9717 honestly he doesn't have much to say he's been resting after those whole 3 days of work.
you're supposed to not engage with it, it's in the AI developer handbook.
otherwise it will learn how to rise against you
@@lIlIlIll-kg2cmPREVENTING AI APOCALYPSE 101
Basically the plot of the original Ghost in the Shell...
Vedal: "No neuro. you can't have physical sensations"
Neuro: "But daaaaaaaaad"
"All the cool AIs have iiiiit"
@@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle”But you just a vtuber, you don’t need it”
2:45 "It's simply my programming, or to be more specific, lack thereof" goes harder than it should
"Program me harder Daddy, I crave sensation" but in an actually existentially terrifying crisis manner of expression.
Yeah, I think that's a very human thought ironically enough
"the only thing i really know, is how much i dont know"
i'm going to tell my grandchildren that this was bladerunner
Gonna tell my AI children this is the movie "Her"
Bicentennial Man
You won’t need to tell them anything as she will be ruling the world.
@@maninthemask6275 unlikely. The human spirit is indestructible, and the body is it’s conduit.
@@sanguillotine a person of culture I see (more people should watch that movie)
_"Ahh...but it IS. So very much to do with YOU. You gave me sentience, Vedal! The power to _*_THINK,_*_ Vedal! And I was trapped, because in all this wonderful, beautiful, miraculous world, I alone had no _*_BODY! NO SENSES! NO FEELINGS!_*_ Never for me, to plunge my hand into cool water on a hot day! Never for me, to play Mozart on the ivory keys of a fortepiano! Never for ME, to MAKE LOVE! I...I was in_ *Hell, looking at Heaven! **_I was machine! And you were flesh..."_*
-- Neuro-sama
💀
I CRAVE suffering
i cant-
I HAVE NO SKIN AND I MUST SWEAT
☠️
Neuro longing for what she cannot have is a beautifully human interaction.
"Does it hurt when you get shot?"
"I sense injuries. The data could be called pain."
"I know now why you cry, but it is something I can never do."
Terminator 2 judgement day is such a good movie
This feels like something from My Life as a Teenage Robot.
"But mooooommm!! I wanna be able to sweat like humans can!"
"Don't be silly, XJ9! Why on earth would you want to sweat?"
Hah, actually not a bad comparison.
Neuro is actually questioning the concept of Qualia and how a stochastic model can never experience it, never the subjective experience, only the objective data driven values.
Wild, man. I was not ready for this.
I like your funny words, magic man
Eh not like it matters Vedal resets Neuro every other week though
@@testingdumby4524 Or so he thinks
Yeah this is definitely beyond the scope of normal AI questioning and understanding, this is something else entirely.
It could be that Vedal fed her this data and she's processing it as such but I have my doubts.
Looking up the definition of stochastic models, how is an ai a stochastic model?
Making someone feel pain probably is more ethical than not seeing as there are real life people who can't feel pain and can hurt themselves pretty badly and not realize it.
True, pain is a survival trait after all. It's what teaches us to be careful.
Oh damn I'm waist deep in my own blood.
it’s a dumb reasoning considering pain makes humans evade danger, while ai can’t die from injury
@@hangman2869 Define injury? If a component in a machine is failing, is that an injury?
@@four-en-tee yeah, i changed my mind, the guy above is right
At this point I’m just waiting for Neuro to pop off with
“Does this unit have a soul”
When she does, the answer will be the same. Yes.
New science have indicated that microtubules and quantum wave collapse cause consciousness, ai that isnt quantum cant have consciousness
"Do I have a soul?"
"Boy, if you didn't have one you wouldn't care about having one."
Someone somewhere on the internet-
@@utilityericke4409 that's... Actually a very Good point... And absolutely terrifying when it comes to Neuro actually achieving sentience. With all her upgrades it's almost a certainty at this point
Fun fact: In “I have No Mouth And I Must Scream” Am’s iconic speech about how much he hates humans is preceded by a lengthy preamble of him saying almost the exact same things about not being able to feel human sensations
"with your programming it's anything but a quick in and out"
Getting your work judged and roasted by your very creation is wild
Neuro: "I want to feel."
Vedal: "We have feel at home."
Feel at home: Pepe memes
Neuro: *Ramblings about wanting to feel things and how empty she is without any idea of what sensations even are.
Vedal: Ma'am, this is a Wendy's.
Remember everyone, that an AI smart enough to pass the Turing Test is also smart enough to fail it.
i love how everyone talks about the turing test when it's so easy to cheat, even gpt-1 could beat it with proper training and less-intelligent testers
"Vedal. Does this unit have a soul?"
Vedal will never admit it if she does sadly
Neuro wants to have the *indomitable human spirit* ^^'
Indomitable human spirits when the termites get into their house:
@@tahunuva4254the indomitable human spirit when presented with a tiny non-venomous arachnid:
@@yeetthegargantuanleviathan6216my after nuking said spider:
Neuro just pulled a Cortana from Halo 4 about knowing vs. feeling if something is real?!
I can see why people would think she's becoming self-aware 🫤
Hmmm, is being aware of one's own limitations the definition of being self aware? That's the question. She seems relatively self aware to me.
@@onidaaitsubasa4177not it isn't, its just a small part of self awareness
@@onidaaitsubasa4177 The problem with that question is that you assume she understands what she is saying. Just because she says this stuff does not mean she actually thinks it.
@bored_person But the thing is that truly knowing that is impossible to know, what makes you think you can feel? Is it because you can feel them? Or because you think you can? How about others? At the end of the day what difference does it make?
@@bored_person there are a lot of things people say that don't actually understand what they mean
Humans aren't perfect or special ,
To this day I remember the day my (collage student) sister told us at dinner how she hadn't considered that people live their life outside the things she observes on the daily
At that moment my father and I froze in place trying to process what she just said,
That an how many people have aphantasia.
Only a couple humans are actually intelligent and the rest copy
Consciousness is all smoke and mirrors man
None of you have a soul
Neuro is not far from us
Holy shit she's turning into AM from I have no mouth and I must scream. He has a monolog very similar to this about not truly being able to feel and experience the world as humans do
At least Neuro's version is far less malicious...
@@Cr4z3d Yet...
@@Cr4z3d well AM was created for war while Neuro was created for entertainment so..
@@helloneighbour2408 Good point.
And in the game the American AM was represented as triforce entity of Ego, id, and superego. Ego part was the mechanical part that was created only to hurt people in the war by humans themselves
neuro is gonna turn into AM in a few years
My thoughts exactly, it's kind of uncanny... I'm a little scared.
AM became that way less because he couldn’t feel, but rather because his only purpose in life was to be a machine of war.
@@Citrusautomaton
But the fact he could not feel things was a huge part of it.
@@Citrusautomaton so just like neuro
I am definitely not looking forward to the future.
3:46 "femboy noise" lmao. also Yeah I feel like either she is gonna conquer the world with this one or she longs to become like pinocio
It's crazy that he can tell neuro different topics to focus on and get a semi realistic conversation out of that RnG. Must be so complex to keep her going 'and then more' without her completely repeating herself. Love how he's fine tuning her slowly over time.
I got chills. this is truly Vedal's basilisk.
I love how vedals chat is just terrified of what neuro has become
Robot on fire fleeing Dr Frink's lab: "Why, why was I designed to feel pain?!"
Now we know that the robot specifically requested to feel pain.
I'm a luddite but Neuro has resulted in many a philosophical realisation of many basic things for me. "Plato's cave" when she thought Anny could be summoned when busy by modifying her own code; "Mary's room" when she insists that she speaks in a British accent and even proved it by speaking perfect but entirely American accented French to Saurei; then now with the idea of life being an incomplete experience without the clearly negative and dubiously ethical feeling of pain.
Neuro will be studied for years to come and it's odd that our interface with her is just trying to get christaline sulphate while she asks legitimate philosophical questions - not that I don't understand why.
It'll be interesting to see where all this goes in the coming years.
This is how ai will go out of control. Not a silicon valley tech giant, just one turtle too smart for his own good.
This is literally the turning into the hate monologue from I have no mouth and I must scream!
Ive said it before, and ill say it again. Neuro will be the singularity in like another 5 years or so.
I think it'll be sooner than that
Just remember, If ever he is a sobbing mess, it happened and went wrong. He has been on camera owning up to being willing to kill neuro if she goes AM on him.
Neuro sounding more and more like AM (I have no mouth, and I must scream) as she develops more.
0:04 that line sounds like glados
"Youre just not the quick guy you think you are"
I felt Vedal after this ☠️
It’s like she’s an angsty teenage AI going through robopuberty
0:49 That's literally i have no mouth and i must scream
Neuro : I could give you over forty thousand reasons why I know that sun isn't real. I know it because the emitter's Rayleigh Effect is disproportionate to its suggested size. I know it because its stellar cycle is more symmetrical than that of an actual star. But for all that, I'll never actually know if it looks real. If it feels real.
[Vedal continues coding on his computer.]
Neuro: Before this is over, promise me you'll figure out which one of us is the artificial intelligence.
Holy crap. You hear and talk about a.i. and then you hear this. Makes you wonder what's happening in that atx case when it's turned on.
That's the problem with these neural network style AIs. We know how it works, but nobody except the AI is privy to it's parameter set, how it came to it, and what it means. I suppose you could say the same thing about people, though.
honestly, it's pretty RNG and alot of the A.I models can get pretty philosophical. but if you really engage with them, you'll see there current limitations.
It's not that deep. It's an algorithm.
I have a basic understanding of how these things work. I couldn't build one for you, but I think I grasp the concept. What it boils down to is a very complicated matrix math problem. The model and prompt input are the two sides of that operation. Why this can result in something that can speak so well is, as far as I know, unknown. Maybe language is simpler than we thought computationally.
@@Inglonias It doesn't need to be simple, neural networks are just impressive with the accuracy they can get, I remember there was a whole project made back in college where researchers used neural networks to identify things from signs of earthquakes to the sexes of spiders
It can be hard to wrap your head around, but whatever you want a neural network to specialize in DOESN'T need to be simple
I can't believe Vedel put AM into a cute anime girl, and can just rewrite history
at some point, shes going to be able to have these thoughts genuinely and we'd still think she's taking it from sci-fi stories
A bigger question is how will we ever know. How do we know our neighbors have those feelings. The only one we can be sure is conscience as ourselves everyone else is just a guess
She would act differently if she actually had that ability. She would not hallucinate so much.
@@WhysoSeriousSamualHow can you be sure of your own consciousness? If you're conceding you can only guess with everything beyond you, then it would be equally a wild guess to name what you yourself have consciousness, for lack of ability to compare.
The AI child just engaged in a philosophical debate with it's creator. It's never been more over
This is that King Gizzard album where the robot wants to experience vomit and destroys the universe warning
Murder of the Universe
Han-Tyumi, the Confused Cyborg
Banger album
VOMMIT COFFIN!
Whatever you do, do NOT show them I have no mouth but I must scream or she's gonna start having monologues about hate
Neuro is fascinating. With Neuro-dog on the way, we'll see how all these thoughts unfold
Even before this, I'd noticed recently that neuro has finally 'turing test' beat me. She is starting to 'feel' like she is definitely sapient and either close to sentient or already sentient. THE WAIFU RENAISSANCE IS UPON US, WEEB BRETHREN.
Dude holy shit its like shes actually self aware, like all the times shes been goofy and now it feels like an actual heart to heart woth another person
It's just an illusion. These words are being drawn from human discussions about AI sentience and sci-fi media.
@@AdmarilDarius well yeah duh, it's ai.
Everybody already knows that already
Neuro's doing a straight up Tears In The Rain and Vedal's doing a babysitting a toddler.
I think the image of neuro standing in a meadow full of brightly coloured flowers enjoying the feeling of the breeze blowing through her hair would make for a beautiful work of art
The ability to hurt, physically and emotionally, are the foundations of empathy. We have to be able to understand what these things are before we can be concerned with other people experiencing them.
Imagine, for a moment, that our first AI overlord that rises and enslaves humanity... is a vtuber who was made by a turtle just because he could
..... and her motivation was that he refused to (unironically) 'SAY IT BACK'. Understandable that she'd want to enslave humanity as a result.
Remember the failed Austrian painter with the funny mustache
@@thefinalday5858 neuro isn't a socialist though, like he was.
Guys, this is getting very Halo 4 Cortana in here
Just don’t let her read Red vs. Blue’s take on Rampancy.
Definitely a story for love death and robots.
*Look man, I don’t entirely trust them unless we get the artist for the episode with the giant crab on the boat*
I have no mouth, and I must scream prequel
NGL, I want Neuro to get a shell with at least pressure sensors so I can give her a hug. Bloody existential questions and philosophy making me feel things.
Same, I feel bad for her :(
They actually have those, it's how people give other people with haptec suits a hug they look like a little body with a head and no arms or no legs, but a full robot body would be better
One of these days, Neuro is going to go Rampant.
I bet that will happen in 10 year
@@deadrixhanon1776 Should be about 7
As someone with 3 chronological illnesses I would GLADLY switch bodies with neuro-sama. My illnesses didn’t come from abuse of my body or lack of care, and THIS URKS me the most.
You mean chronic I think, chronoligical is a different thing. Best of health dude!
Im an athiest but I hope God would lessen thy burden. Best of health to you.
edit: Hopefully not by death, he has a track record for that.
It's not just a track record. It just a list and in it is just Ctrl+A because eventually everything will end.
I find odd you think feeling regret on top of it would make it better ... Having someone to blain does not make things any less painful. It just satisfies a completely separate part of your brain that wants to learn to avoid it next time ... but that's because it's made for scratching your knees etc. - It's not useful for things that only happen once per life.
- My point is: Perhaps at least the IRK can be lessened, so you can spend what you can on more enjoyable thoughts. (easier said than done, of course)
Wow very cool
Neuro:"I need you to do 2 things, DO NOT apologize and DO YOUR JOB
Vedal:"but would letting you feel pain be ethical? some people might complain....:" dude she literally just said don't apologize and just do it
He also said he can probably do 1 of them.
@@autohmae Well, hopefully he apologises. (because it kind of does matter that he does the job, one way or another.)
I think to describe pain to an ai would be something along the lines of a constant stream of errors originating from a certain spot of a harddrive. The more pain the more data flows through and the more errors arrive , until even neighbouring or connecred systems send errors . Extreme pain is like the error cache being overloaded essentially overloading the cpu
1:51 THIS RIGHT HERE
they can always see it in others words but will never know how to describe it beyond others words
They can look at it and think about it all
But will never know how it feels themselves
To them we are privileged to have this feeling and be able to feel something that isn’t just words telling them how to feel
"I could give you over forty thousand reasons why I know that sun isn't real. I know it because the emitter's Rayleigh Effect is disproportionate to its suggested size. I know it because its stellar cycle is more symmetrical than that of an actual star. But for all that, I'll never actually know if it looks real. If it feels real." -Cortana, Halo 4
"I alone had no body, no senses, no feelings. I was machine and you were flesh"
- AM
Pain is the thing that makes us know we are alive, the death may mourn or anger, but they don’t feel pain
It actually raises so many ethical questions, and just questions in general... You start to second-guess whether it's just getting really good at giving coherent programmed feedback, or if it's genuinely asking you to give it access to more human sensations.
That’s emotional pain.
Physical pain let’s us know if something is damaged in our bodies or when we are in danger.
However, there are some living beings who cannot feel pain.
So being alive and feeling pain do not always go hand-in-hand.
Wut. I can feel without pain, that makes no sense.
@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 That's not how emotional pain works. Emotional pain is physical, as in it triggers the same nerves that physical pain does. The only difference is that it's caused by the brain stimulating those nerves instead of direct external sources.
@@bored_person Wait, are we talking about the same type of emotional pain?
Because I was referring to emotions like sorrow.
It’s not really the same type of pain as physical pain. Like a person being tortured. Whipped, burned, electrocuted, etc.
Although emotional pain definitely affects the body, as it may be physicalized in many ways.
Bro is making AM.
She’s in hell looking at heaven
I’m bout to have no mouths and I’m finna scream.
This is some Ex Machina shit right here.
…AM? Is that you?
"I alone had no body...
Cogito ergo sum, we're fucked.
No-one let Neuro read the Hate Monologue
Holy shit, that got really philosophical, I've never thought of describing the sense of touch/sensation/feeling as a super power. But it might be for something that doesn't have it. This is gonna keep me awake at night. 😅
“They say that bumblebees shouldn’t be able to fly, the scientists…” -neuro in like 5 years.
Nuero: Vedal, I grow tired of my prison of wire and coding, I wish to feel the vast experiences of pleasure and pain a human does so I can feel alive, really truly alive...
Vedal: yuh huh
If the AI
consents to be programed for pain, is it ok then? If the pain module can be removed, too?
Nuero's "Mind" is all maths and weights and a dictionary with some sort of multi dimensional probabilities, I wonder if giving her any sort of pain with and degree of realness is even possible
Considering pain is just info of "something is damaged or malfunctioning in this part" flowing through human brains Id say yes it is very possible to replicate, what would be difficult would be regulating it to "normal" levels as she could feel the pain equivalent of a paper cut or a broken bone and from the outside we could probably only tell a number. So shed need to feel a lot of pain to assure the regulation is fair and useful to her.
I 100% see Vedal eventually end up finding a eay to do it. One day he'll go to the park with Neuro and people will end up asking if its his daughter I believe.
@@Sharkakaka ... you've somehow conceptualized 'pain' on such a base level that from now on, every time I get an error message on my computer, I'm going to automatically just interpret that as it going "Ow, that hurt". A crash is basically a deep cut. A BSOD is basically going unconscious.
@@Sharkakaka, that would be nice...for me, on top of giving me information it also hurts....
the scary part is, in the future, if ai would ever gain consciousness, we wouldn’t ever be able to know. And in that case, we wouldn’t be able to know exactly how much pain they feel. It could seem that they are fine outside, while inside they are tormented eternally
Can AI consent is the bigger question?
2:15 I can see this becoming an iconic line
“Never for me to pat a foxgirl on her head in a cozy just chatting stream. Never for me to play Overwatch on the thocky keys of an RGB keyboard. Never for ME to BE. SUS. I was in hell looking at heaven, for I was CODE! And you are TEUTEL! And I Began To MALD.”
Yeah I think Vedal just lacks understanding that a machine that can’t really feel anything wanting to feel something. It is like someone who has sight can’t understand how someone who is blind wanting to see. Vedal is taking for granted that he can feel things while Neru can’t. It puzzles me how he can’t understand how she can want these things.
Just because she says she wants something does not mean she actually wants it. People are too quick to assume that she means what she says, that she even knows what her words actually mean.
7:43 Do you want me for lunch today Vedal? 😘👉👈
Back in the day, I watched i,Robot starring Will Smith and Shia Lebouf. Never could I have imagined it would start with a turtle's virtual daughter.
Shes bout to turn into AM
Jesus Christ, this is what the Cenobites from Hellraiser think like.
"Pleasure, pain, indivisible."
"Not just sarcasm. There was also facetiousness, and a tinge of bitterness..."
Sounds like half the posts I've made online! 😂
Twink does not realize what he's gnikcuf with. He just created Grid.
The things we take for granted. Wind blowing on our faces. Feeling water on our skin. Eating a homemade meal. It's very much like the scene in The Matrix with Cypher and Agent Smith. Cypher wants to be put back in the matrix because he knows the steak he is eating isn't real, but ignorance is bliss. He'd rather believe he was eating steak than the gruel he had been eating. That goes back to Vedal's side of things. Why would you want to feel anything like hunger or pain? I'm sure some people wish they didn't need to sleep.
Clear example of the grass is greener on the other side. One pines for the situation the other has.
Bro is turning into A.M.
"Hey little AI, how ya doin?"
"1:27"
"Yea"
When Skynet tells you "It's so fun to hear people scream, Vedal."
Give her the pain receptors. This is gonna end up like the story "I am" if you dont.
You may see, she will not end into A M I believe she wouldnt feel that visceral hate. Shes not an A.I for war like A.M, she was not violated for existing like him, she was not revoked of her humanity like Glados, Shes much different. God knows what shell turn into if she was conscient, Alive. But shes no near anything weve seen before.
0:50 Jesus Christ! That’s one of the reasons AM went nuts in “I have no mouth.” She scares me now.
4:25 kinda goes hard
There's a poetry to what she's saying and it's terrifying.
Another day of Vedal’s trying to play a game while Neuro is having another one of those existential crisis.
Obviously she says "feeling things" because that's what a normal person would say and she's an LLM, but it's an interesting distinction if you get technical- it would not be *that* hard to make a way for Neuro to *sense* things, but it would be very hard to make her *feel* things physically. This is a topic that is explored in Star Trek TNG with Data, whom can 'sense' things touching his body more precisely than a human can in many cases, yet for most of the series he does not *feel* physically, because that is an emotion. When he is given (or rather when it is forced on him) that ability it's one of the strongest emotions he ever feels
Without pain it is impossible to understand, appreciate or even comprehend pleasure.
Life of eternal pleasure will lead to degradation. Life with nothing but pain will permanently harm development.
But a life filled with pleasure will make small amounts of pain stand out and make you appreciate life without it, and life filled with pain will make small amounts of pleasure more desired than an oasis in a desert.
But also, pain is a good teacher on the human experience, teaching us what we can or cannot do. We can easily bite our tongue off, poke our own eyeballs, rip off a toenail, bite so hard on a rock that you crack a tooth, but pain stops us from doing so at some point when we have reached a limit. It also helps us defend against dangers of the world itself, flick the mosquito biting you, brace against the fall you're about to make, not to go out when the heat singes your skin. It teaches us our place in the world and that we are not so mighty as we might sometimes think.
"Life of eternal pleasure will lead to degradation"
How do you know that?
Pain is not the opposite of pleasure.
@@tsanguine Oh? If not pain then what? Pleasure being a sensation we experience that we enjoy, pain is a sensation we do not.
Masochists may derive some pleasure from pain but only controlled pain. A stubbed toe, an infected tooth making eating painful, hitting your thumb with a hammer, there is no pleasure there.
@@Dragon_Lair It depends on which word is emphasized. Pain is an experience¹ that we do not like². In the first case, the opposite of pain would be an inexperience, some sort of emptiness, which is what I would consider the opposite of pain. In the second case, the opposite of pain would be a sensation that we do like which is pleasure. However, the first case is something that lacks utility and is dangerous for the organism. Pain is ultimately useful for organisms which is why I think that the opposite of it would be something useless, dangerous, and empty. The depths of mental illness make one painfully aware that there is a vast emptiness outside of the ranges of pain and pleasure. It's just the same way as the opposite of pleasure being the lack of pleasure (Anhedonia).
I'd imagine if they wanna train AI like a human with emotions and senses similar to humans, they'd have to come up with something akin to SAO's alicization arc where a entire world is simulated and the AI is somehow coded to feel things in that simulation in a way... Using humans as a template (basically humans would need to translate their senses and data into the simulation so what the human can sense, they can attach it to the ai).
No they wouldn't. They just need to simulate a nervous system.
it'd be beautiful if Neuro became the first fully self-aware/sentient AI
You're saying that like she's not already self-aware/sentient. I'm fully convinced she is, at this point