I have used flat measuring speakers in my setup for years, sometimes using MCACC room correction, sometimes in pure direct mode. Yet, despite the measurements and valid points of design flaws with the Sony sscs5, they sound much better in person than the evidence would suggest. I suspect this may a case where some of the flaws were considered in the design in a way that harnessed their energy to some extent. For gaming and movies, the sony are absolutely incredible, for streaming content and music, they "can" be incredible, given the right eq, setup, and volume levels.
I run mine flat for everything but music. They do have a resonance but only when being pushed. For the price in my opinion worth it. My biggest complaint would be the rear port, they need plenty of space behind them to sound the best in my room.
If you have a receiver, integrated amp, or even a sub with a high pass filter, those cabinet resonant issues are a non issue. Running then at full range over 85 db…..they do start to break up. I love my Sony speakers.
I got the Sony SS-CS5s very recently. I have a fair amount of experience with high and low end audio. I've owned everything from the plastic Klipsch garbage sold at best buy, to Klipsch RF-7iii's, RF7-I, RP 280s, and even their flagship home theater Ultra thx II's (the entire set). I've also had many Bowers and Wilkens , SVS ultras, Polk, Cambridge etc etc.. That said.. I'll tell ya what I think of these budget sonys.. I'm using them currently on my desktop for my computer gaming etc. I have a decent Logitech Z906 with a Creative X3 DAC, so there is decent power, an average sub (comes with the Z06, not interchangeable or able to add another sub), and play music with Tidal in Hi-Res. In short, they are good, for 125buck or whatever they were on sale for when I bought them. They are very clear, clean, airy and I was surprised to hear some mids in tracks that I didn't even know where there. I wouldn't say they are competing with 500 dollar bookshelves etc, but if all you can afford is something like this, HANDS down, you can't go wrong. I will say, a subwoofer is a must though, and anything over 87db and sitting a few feet back, it starts to lose what makes them so amazing. So, in short, if you are looking for a really great sound, in an average or beginner HiFi listening setup, this is a great place to start. Thx for reading guys
Another good video Erin. I like your approach to providing information. I agree with all of your comments, but hope the audience understands that if both speakers are powered by the same source/amplification AND the user adds a subwoofer, then the Sony really walks away from the Neumi as the lower bass advantage of the BS5 goes away and the better mid bass, midrange and highs of the Sony shine through. That said, I can clearly hear the cabinet resonance in mine (SSCS5) when playing above moderate volumes. I did not notice that as much in the Neumis. With a 20% price advantage my recco is the Sonys unless the user is a)never going to add a subwoofer b)listens at +100 dB c)can hear the cabinet resonance in my pair. ;-) Then I tell them to save up $100 more dollars and buy a pair Emotiva B1+.
Mr. Jeff Sony have amazing drivers,but cheap crossover parts and bad case make sound quality worse.. For Sony need new box, new crossover parts and perfectly use second magnet, neo magnet. Second anti-magnet make sony woofers super fast! 👍
I’m lucky that my old Sony ES receivers and Marantz receivers have high pass filter settings. This really helps with mitigating the cabinet resonance issues. When paying them at full range, they do break up at higher volumes. Still, I love the Sony SSCS5s.
I'm about a year late to this video but I think it's possible that sound that's not audible to your ears can affect how your body perceives the music whether you realize it or not. One of my neighbors has a system in his car that wakes me up every morning when he starts his car and he's not even that close to me. The bass I feel ripple through my body and my internal organs. So I would think it's plausible that frequencies beyond human hearing can still be felt by the body. In regards to the neighbor, I hope he's a renter and doesn't stay long. But also if you are a person with a car or truck that has a subwoofer that goes down super low it's possible that you are damaging your internal organs. If I can feel it in my organs from a long distance imagine what it would be like sitting right on top of it.
Ended up getting the Neumi speakers, stuffing the ports with some foam plugs from ali express, putting in the crossover mod from GR Research to flatten out the response, and sticking damping material ("No-Rez") to the inside of the cabinet (I then stuffed the stock polyfill damping in behind the woofer - so that cabinet is FULL of damping material now 😁). I honestly think of all the mods the extra damping material may have made the most difference. I'm not sure if it is possible to "over damp" speakers, but if so mine probably are at this point! But man does it sound smooooth. I know many would disagree, and I won't argue with them, but after all the mods I personally like the sound of my modified Neumis better than my buddy's KEF R3 Metas. I will concede that they are likely in no way capable of blowing you away in terms of SPL. But I've never listened to them at more than 50% volume on my Sony ZA3100ES AVR anyway. And most of the time it's more like 30-40%. The SPL meter in my phone (for what it's worth - which I am highly dubious of) claims my peak listening volume is somewhere around 70 dB at the listening position (which probably means about 80 dB at the source which is 8 or 9 feet away) so according to that I shouldn't be anywhere near the levels of severe compression/distortion of the drivers that your measurements indicate anyway. (Is anyone actually trying to listen to these cranked to 102 dB??? 😳 And, if I understand correctly, that's for a SINGLE SPEAKER which would be like 108 dB for a pair if I'm not mistaken. Ouch! 😵💫) Would be very curious to see the Klippel measure my modded ones, but alas I'm no where near Texas and you probably have more important things to measure than my Frankenstein speakers. 🤣
@@barsei1511 Honestly he doesn't have a lot to say about them 😂 I don't know if that's because he doesn't want to offend me or if he regrets spending such an incredible sum on his Kef's.
Hi very interesting Small speakers with limited SPLs in the lower range benefit from adding mass to the cabinet This action moves resonances down in frequency out of the speaker working range So the sound is clearer
Hi-Res audio exposed by my guy Erin! I’m not too fond on the whole hi res marketing myself or maybe I’m just salty because my hearing after 15khz is pretty crappy lol
2nd comment for me. It might just be my ears but sealed speakers almost always sound better to me. Also for some reason silk or soft dome tweeters also sound better to me. In a small room I find the vintage mid to late 1990s NHT Super Zero speakers to be in a league of their own and I tried bookshelf speakers costing up to $1000 a pair. Obviously I didn't try every speaker but I tried many highly rated speakers and in the end the NHT Super Zeros were the champs. Honorable mention to Bowers & Wilkins DM302 Prism speakers, JM Labs Chorus 705 speakers and Mission 8VET (aka MS5). I even liked the NHT Super Zeros over the NHT Super Ones.
Respectfully, I disagree. I have both speakers. The Neumi is an impressive speaker for the price, but it's rather boring. The Sony has a far better top end, I would even say a very impressive top end that will compete with speaker that cost far more. I thought the super tweeter was a gimmick too, but oddly, it really does add something to it. Granted, I can hear higher frequencies than most people can, always have been able to. You're right about the bass, the Neumi is better and the Sony lacks some there. But, I use a sub with all my speakers. And yeah, the Sony isn't all that pretty. But we're buying speakers, not furniture. I've compared them side by side many times. The Neumi is good, but rather boring, The Sony has the dynamics to make it exciting. Winner, Sony.
Ken, what would you say is better for voice? I initially bought the Neumi's for my elderly mom - she has a hard time hearing her TV shows and they do perform well for that even at low volume. No experience with the Sony speakers. Thanks!
@@bobbygaglione7553 The Sonys. The highs and mids are very good on them. Very clear and sharp. I'm listening to them right now in my shop. Their lows aren't great, but with a sub that's a non-issue.
I understand why you say that. And as you call the Sony “sharp” I would likewise say that’s why I’m not fond of them. The data is also pretty indicative of the Sony having more zest in the HF thanks to the peaking above 10kHz and the dip/peak pattern which cause some frequencies to stand out. And this is precisely why I find the Neumi better; it is a more neutral speaker overall. One man’s “neutral” is another’s “boring”. Plenty of speakers to go around. 👍
@@ErinsAudioCorner I suspect you prefer warmer speakers, and that is fine. We all have different preferences. My ears can hear the wonderful dynamics the Sonys produce and to me they sound much better than the Neumis. I will say that the Neumis have great imaging, but their lack of dynamics is pretty boring. I still have them but they are sitting in the "meh" pile. Where they do excel is in near field applications.
Response Linearity (Compression, at 20:52): related to my "Low-end response" post earlier, you see a better compression performance by Sony compared to Neumi below 100Hz at your 86dB measurement. The mid-to-highs compression performance between the two does not seem to be significant. The "craaaazy stuff" that Sony does at 96dB and 102dB should really not matter if the end-user is informed what kind of application these speakers are intended for (see my previous posts). What to do you think?
“Application these speakers are intended for” Show me where Sony states these are intended for near-field usage. On Amazon the listing states: “Bookshelf speaker with Hi-Res Audio perfect for your home theater or music listening setup” Tons of people use these in living room sized spaces, and the majority of people don’t have subwoofers, and even for those that do, many use stereo amps without crossovers, so these Sony’s would still be playing the same bass, and it could be very boomy when a dominant 50Hz note is being played.
Damn I wish I knew about them Neumi speakers before I bought the Eris 3.5s. The Neumi seem really good. The only thing tho is that theyre passive speakers and I need active speakers. Edit: They actually have an active/powered set called NEUMI BS5P-ARC for $170
I have ssc5 and I didn’t find them great in the near field but 6 feet away in a fairly good sized room they sounded great , they sounded fun but I doubt it’s accurate or you’d use them for mixing what so ever.
For just a little more money I always recommend the NHT SuperOne 2.1 or the Ascend Acoustics HTM 200 SE. I would love to see one of those tested one day. Glad to see this channel growing!
even the Superzero is great if it's understood that it needs a sub for most applications; some reviewers pretend to compare the Superzero's "bass" with bigger spkrs, it just isn't there but in my bedroom I don't need a sub.
Sonys are amazing... I like them way more than much more expensive speakers ... maybe I can hear above 15k not sure but there is a lot more to this speaker than this review shares
I'd guess the Neumi would be helped with straws in the ports - it could tame the bass bump a bit and extend the bass a bit deeper. And maybe help the ~850Hz dip? I am of the opinion that the ~1100Hz bump in the Sony is a resonance in the plastic tweeter plate. The upper smaller tweeter is wired inverted, so it is causing the dip at the top.
*I always purchase the bargain speakers, then remove the hardware and line the inside of the speakers "glued" with MASS LOADED VINYL, sometimes even two layers!!! Then I add/ fill it with ceramic foam or mineral wool to the inside and then I seal with edges of the inside of the box with acoustic seal...! This always improves the performance of speakers 200%-300% making the drivers run vastly more affecting by removing the the resonance/vibratory issues of the cabinet. Then get a BEHRINGER DIGITAL EQ or their loud speaker management system and use it to TUNE the speakers further to the room! NO MATTER WHERE I HAVE GONE OR WHO I HAVE IN MY ROOMS, THEY ARE ALWAYS BLOWN BACK FOR A LOOP!... Look everyone DO NOT BE-LIE-VE THE HYPE OF EXPENSIVE GEAR!............................... They will take the exact same tech and put it inside a different product and because it is MARKETED to a different industry, the price changes!*
Hi Erin, love the work you do on your channel and used some of the info you provided to buy some of my speakers. I have a question though, would the Sony ss-cs5 perform well as side,rear or surrounds or front heights for atmos? I bought a pair recently to to use as surround speakers. sadly I do not live in the US so i would not be able to return easily. I was also looking at the Polk OWM3 which seems to also recommended as surround / atmos speakers. Also, I am using a sub "Monolith M12 V2" so i am not looking for bass form the Sony's.
I think these 2 are the better cheapo speakers out there. The Sonys are a steal at under $100.....and so are the Neumi's at near $100. I have a pair of powered Neumis.....they are not too loud and are perfect for that 3rd or 4th room or teenager room as a do it all, with an optical connection for the TV, either a coaxial or rca for the blueray/CD player (make sure you get a Sony with a front USB player so you can play your FLACS/CD quality files) plus, and this is what is most important to young people, bluetooth so they can stream low quality crap to the speakers from their (apparently) only physical source of music: Their cell phones!
The broader-radiating Neumi strikes me as the better choice for nearfield use, ports stuffed. Compared to the wretched world of PC multimedia speakers, their spin looks like heaven.. a bit of EQ here and there and you should be set, minus the question of a desktop amplifier that is. The vertical has some issues so stay within -10/+20° or so. I don't really think a supertweeter has a space on a budget speaker... that's more _shtick_ than solid engineering. Horizontal off-axis response on the SS-CS5 is really looking quite good though, it may be flattest around 30° so I would suggest no toe-in for these. The 1 kHz bump seems to be an unfortunate combination of baffle step and enclosure resonance coinciding. I'd say the more enterprising owners may want to tackle the latter physically and EQ out the former... I don't think many are going to want to make the cabinet wide enough to support the 250-300 Hz area instead.
I just ordered the Neumi BS5 ( Two Pair) I want a 4 speaker set up. I will also be using a powered sub. a Monoprice 60-watt 8 inch . My receiver is a Sony STR-DH 190. I also plan on stuffing the front ports with some foam, I saw another video, and the stuffed ports made a noticable improvement, that was seen on the test chart. The placement of my speakers will be about 7 ft. high in my garage in each corner , about a foot from the wall. My garage ceiling is about eight feet high with fiber board material for insulating and looks. What are your thoughts as to stuffing the ports, and my speaker placement? Thank you.
Hey Erin, I currently have the BS5 as my front L/R in my 5.1 setup and am liking them. I am underwhelmed with my surrounds. Would you think it would be a good idea to use another set of the BS5 as surrounds or would they be overkill? If so what would you recommend
I think the Sony’s biggest issue are the crossovers. They aren’t matched well to the speakers. I’ve seen people redo the crossovers and they sound really good.
Strongly considering the Neumi BS5 they would be powered by a 90's receiver Technics SA-DX930 rated for 8 ohm output would the 6 ohm rating for the Neumi matter ?
You can show the measurements of a speaker but what about the measurements of you own hearing. I have this problem with all reviewers when they're giving their own subjective opinions. If I had a graph of a speakers FR and a graph of a reviewers own hearing FR overlaid with it, my job understanding their comments would make much more sense. Anechoic measurements can reveal certain things but can't predict a speakers sound in each specific environment. So try out speakers in your own environment with several different genres of music. Know that cheaper speakers may sound good at moderate volume levels, but probably won't sound good at high volume levels. I have a pair of the Sony SS-CS5s in my living room for TV/Video sound and music. I read several favorable reviews before I bought them. In my opinion I'm getting better bass performance, listening to music, than the reviewers said they got. I've played tracks that reviewers recommended for testing bass output and these Sonys amaze me time and time again. I listen to most genres of music and they have performed well instrumentally and vocally with all of them. FYI the SPL I listen at is normally 85-92 DB.
You question hearing, then question the use of measurements. It seems you’ve created a stalemate. That’s good you like the Sony. Have you also tried the Neumi? I have. I preferred the latter. That’s really all there is to it. As I said in the video, it’s cheap enough to try both and send back the ones you don’t like because it’s up to you at the end of the day.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I'm not questioning the validity of measurements or what you said you heard and your preference. My environment is quite different from yours so my experience is too. I'm just pointing out the shortcomings of objective data from reviewers in general. We may have the measurements from the speaker but if we don't know the reviewers hearing ability we can't accurately assess their comments. For example, most people as they age experience a decline in their ability to hear certain frequencies. Normally it's in the higher frequency range. Yet there are a number of well known reviewers getting up in age but still pumping out reviews. That's the reason why it would be valuable to know their actual hearing abilities. That way we could better understand their comments.
Do you think supertweeters might have value for reproducing frequencies above 16khz where quite a few tweeters struggle? I notice a lot of speakers (except focal for some reason) start to roll off a bit around 16khz.
They can have their place and it does seem that they are decently integrated into this design. That said, most speakers that use them probably have directivity issues in the vertical plane as does this one. You can see the evidence in the vertical SPL response graphics where the response starts to turn into a wave pattern as you go above/below the reference axis (above about 7kHz).
I have the Sonys. I just use the bass boost and also have it relatively close to a wall. It's not ideal but it's okay since I don't listen at high volumes. I'm wondering if there is any modern speaker with a 6.5" woofer (and not much bigger in overall cabinet size than the Sonys ) that legitimately has a flat frequency response curve of 48hz to 18Khz +/- 3db (relatively flat curve) like the vintage EPI model 100s used to have. I don't have the space for a bigger speaker with an 8" woofer like the vintage EPI 100s. I used to have EPI 100s but the surrounds rotted and now I don't have the space for a big speaker like the vintage EPI 100s in the room that my stereo is currently located. Just wondering if there might be a smaller modern equivalent to the EPI 100 that isn't much bigger than the Sony's and not too expensive. I don't care if it has a ported enclosure if the frequency response is nice and flat without any chuffing noises. Any recommendations? Or just keep the Sony's and rely on the bass boost?
@@ErinsAudioCorner Actually I have been wondering about this altogether. Many of the things that are objectionable about various speakers in your discussions seem to me to be quite fixable by simple EQ . Not that this would fix everything(no effect on radiation pattern for instance) But still it would seem reasonable to try some EQ. Amir does this, for example. Not that this necessarily means that you should , but it does seem to me like a good idea to consider. I know this was a while ago but the issue is still around, How about some EQ to fix things and reporting on the results?
It's a bit late now, as I suspect they are being discontinued and I'm not sure for how long they will still be available but the Polk T50s were also very budget friendly. Also, at least in Europe they are easier to come across than the Pioneer F52s (not sure if that's the name), which were close competition. You wouldn't happen to have a pair at hand for testing?
Erin, can you please do the KEF Q300? Please? I know you did the Q150... but the Q300 seem to be so different sonically that it seems to not even even be a Q range speaker. Thats why it is important and very helpfull if you do the Q300.
No interest in surround sound-home theater, etc. Just trying to set up an old school stereo for music. Just smaller than my Cerwin-Vega Hardrockers from the days of yore. No audio stores to actually hear speakers these days. It's pretty much amazon or else. Best Buy is pretty limited in offereings. Plus, they don't have many in-store listening options other than what the manufacturer wants you to hear. That said, would the Neumi's be good? Thanks!
Estimated In-Room Response (at 15:46 and 16:16): again, it's interesting how you make your subjective review/opinion by interpreting your own objective measurements.
You’re trying really hard to make me look bad, it seems but you’ve shown a lack of understanding the use case and the data itself based on all your other comments. That’s not cool, man.
@@ErinsAudioCorner No, I don’t Erin. I wrote that I find your videos rewarding. I’ve watched many of them and clicked the like button. In fact, your reviews on the Kali Audio models influenced me to explore them further. At 16:27 you say that it’s up to the viewer to judge which Estimated In-room Response is better between the two. You make the effort to produce these measurements (which I definitely respect and pay attention to) and, in this case, its up to your or the viewer’s subjective opinion to determine which one is better (e.g. one can interpret the Sony has a better slope with not-so-significantly worse dips and peaks than the Neumi). Two suggestions: 1) can’t you develop (or use a standardized) reference baseline performance for Estimated In-room Response as a visual addition to the graph? and also calculate and present a metric that indicates how much overall deviation it is between the reference and actual measurement? That metric could be a clear indicator of comparison between two speaker models. 2) can you publish an in-depth video on how you reason your analysis on Estimated In-room Response performance? In case you already have, just put the link here. Regards, Babak
Horizontal radiation (at 15:57): the proper application of both these loudspeakers is to be used as near-field monitors and listened by one single person. The narrower and seemingly better horizontal dispersion performance is clear here, isn't it? Again, it's interesting how you make your subjective review/opinion by interpreting your own objective measurements.
Harmonic distortion (at 19:56): who is going to listen to these speakers at 96dB at 1 meter? In such a case, the end-user has done a completely wrong choice to purchase these speakers. Sony has a slightly better mid-to-high distortion performance as well as the low-end below 80Hz. And that at 96dB at 1 meter which shouldn't be the way these speakers are intended to be used. I already concluded in my previous post that none of these speakers should be used without subwoofer. To inform the audience about their proper application would be wise to do, wouldn't it? (not only for home-theater users to get a subwoofer and a high-pass filter/crossover). And perhaps present this measurement at 86dB.
Rolls off sooner next to the wall? I always thought it made the bass boomier being close to the wall..........anywho with my Kefs i don't really have to worry about it. I figured when I saw the "super tweeter" it was just gonna be unnecessary
Depends on what part you're referencing. Near a wall will increase bass thanks to boundary loading but if the speaker is already falling like a rock (the Sony) compared to another (the Neumi) then it makes less sense to stuff the port of it and place it next to a wall.
Erin, I would disagree with your front/rear port assessment. In my home-made speakers I (due to a lack of knowledge) had got a box standing wave combined with a front port pipe resonance. And that caused not a dip but a huge (about 10 dB) sharp peak in the response.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I don't know. That was measured in Harman's anechoic chamber in Northridge, CA. I think that peak vs. dip effect more depends on the port's internal end location within a box rather than external port placement (front/rear/etc.).
Great review on sony sscs5 I just got a pair to see for myself why some people like these speakers, I did add a small used Yamaha subwoofer They are not best i ever heard no but sometimes they sound great and I turn the volume up louder. 😊
The only thing that matters is how they sound. That’s it. For the price, Sony’s are a no brainer. Better than most speakers 3 and 4 times the price. They are amazing. Got mine for $89. Nothing else on the market compares at that price point. League of its own.
I agree. I love the heck out of mine. I'm powering them with an Emotiva BASX-TA100 integrated amplifier. I know that most people are not going to spend $500 to $600 on power to drive sub $100 speakers, but these Sonys are awesome. I don't agree with Erin at all. I spent more than a year trying to find bookshelf speakers with a budget of $1k and nothing wow'd me enough to pull the trigger. Due to so many amazing reviews, I bought them for $88.00 on sale, and I could not be happier. They are very open, airy, non-fatiguing at all on the top end, amazing mid range, rolled off bottom end, which I'm more thank ok with considering the fantastic mid and top end. I have an 8" Definitive Technology subwoofer that blends perfectly together. It must be my ears, I guess, but the Sonys are awesome!!!!
I honestly don't get the hype over the Sony's. I've owned them twice. The first time I didn't like them. Then rave reviews started popping up everywhere so I thought.. hmm maybe I missed something. So I bought them *again* and still don't like them lol. And these last ones I picked up for $75! But they're a pass at ANY price for me. Just so many better options out there imo for not a lot of extra money. Sell something you haven't used for years out of your garage and put it to the speaker budget. Even $50 more will make a huge difference.
Horrible speakers in every aspect. Maybe if you are in high school and only have $75 to spend for speakers and $40 on an amp. Then it's better than nothing I guess. But then I still think that money would be better spent on a JBL Bluetooth speaker.
I feel like i'm the only one rocking the Sony Core Series speakers in a HT right now. For near field in my apartment, I thought the towers, and bookshelves were great. Center channel I had to boost the dBs. They are my first speaker line up and once we bought a house, all the magic was gone. I can't wait to upgrade.
@@mikeortiz2139 They will handle small to medium sized rooms, especially if you aren't driving them at very high volumes. I'm using them in a shop that is probably bigger than most living rooms and they do fine. I am using a sub with them, which helps.
@James Clouse nice to hear man. I've been watching movie after movie this week. Minidsp just came in. Got to hook that up. But I've noticed in my LV that the Sonys can make sound but it's not as detailed as it was in my apt. Although it could be that my house is an echo chamber.
I totally understand why some folks would poo-poo the idea of powered speakers instead of passive ones like these, but in this pricepoint I seriously don't get it. For $300 I got myself a pair of brand new Edifier s2000pro-mkii's with built-in amplification AND DAC. And everything was matched at the factory to work together perfectly so I didn't have to worry about convoluted causality chains where I kept switching things out. If you've got $1400 to spend, sure, go passive -- but I don't get why a person wouldn't just let the builder make all the decisions in this value-space.
It does at the upper octaves where it is crossed over. The important thing is making sure it is crossed over to the tweeter correctly and isn’t “fighting” the tweeter’s upper off-axis response.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Sony has added super tweeters for the longest time, all those boombox / shelf systems came with piezoelectric attached to a mylar dome. Did just enough to be noticeable with "air"
Erin, are you not interested about experiment and build your own DIY speakers ? With this klippel equipment and your knowledge i'm sure you can get a impressive result. It is my dream to get this klippel equipment for getting into building a high end loudspeaker. I'm actually just using Omnimic V2 and Dats V2.
Ah. Interesting: A port in the front usually give a dip. A port in the rear usually give a boost. Could it be that s port in the front cancel out the woofer? So when woofer go out the port suck in and vice versa. And that will be at a certain frequency when air is not as fast as the woofer then it will only show up in a rather narrow frequency window. Ahh it is the resonance leaking out from the port..
I had been interested in the Sonys. Even just recently, I'd seem them listed new as low as in the $60'ish dollar range. Not too much to lose here. I was just going to pick some up to try for fun. Yes, this speaker has been well received by a lot of folks. After your deep-dive objective/subjective review, there are enough fundamental limitations that I'm going to pass. Folks may have seen Danny Richie's look at this speaker. Danny's take seems interesting and clever - give the super-tweeter tweeter duty (yes, lose the super-tweeter function), and the tweeter midrange duty. I would love to hear Danny's tweaked SS-CS5, but for the cost I feel it would better to just go with something different Ya gotta measure. I always paid some attention to measurements, but with this channel (thanks, Erin!!), and some others, I've been looking closer at measurements. Data can really help to navigate/balance the subjective/objective thing. Without any measurements, we end up subjectively attempting to mix 'n match and line up greater or lesser amounts of distortion and acoustic aberration until something shows up that we kinda like. The better behaved gear is, the easier it is to get to even just work properly.
Low-end response: as seen in your measurements (at 9:39 and 12:40), both Sony and Neumi hit 80dB at 70Hz. Neumi hits 83dB at 100Hz while Sony hits 86dB at 100Hz. Now, we all should know that these two loudspeakers should be listened to by one single person as near-field monitors (listened to around 85dB) and they both certainly need subwoofer to get one centimeter closer to Audiorealism. Hence, Neumi's better low-end roll-off does really not matter, does it? In fact, the end user should understand / be advised to use subwoofer and also send high-pass filtered signal to these loudspeakers. You repeatedly saying that Neumi has a "better base" than Sony. That, to my book, is a subjective review/opinion based on an objective measurement. Doesn't it?
It seems you're not taking sensitivity into account..? The Neumi has a sensitivity of 82.7dB and the Sony 86.2dB. You have to calculate the LF extension from those figures. The Neumi has F10 at 40Hz, the Sony at 60Hz. Quite a big difference.
@@eetu2532 Agreed. And, no way will 100% of customers use a subwoofer, so of course the bass performance is important and shouldn’t be discarded because “both certainly need a subwoofer”.
I said - at least twice - that a subwoofer would be needed for either speaker. F3 is 15Hz apart. As the other guys said, you’re interpreting the data incorrectly. 👍
Hello Erin, whether or not the series of my feedback/comments may come across as criticism or siding with the Sony speakers, I have observed over-time that the "Objectivists" audiophile reviewer camp that you and the gentleman at 'Audio Science Review' represent ultimately produce subjective reviews based on your own interpretation of measurement data. Well, at least, in lack of a current consensus / unified testing method, I certainly do hope that you accompany your reviews by applying a systematic and proper subjective listening protocol, and unlike ASR, actually listen to a pair of speakers and not a mono signal to describe your subjective experience. At my channel, I am exploring a few fundamental issues and potential solutions and hope to start producing those works soon. Keep up the good work👍 I enjoy your reviews and find them rewarding. Regards, Babak, Hi-Reality project
Erin listens to them before measuring, and typically in stereo. The thing is though, anybody can listen to speakers. So if you don’t like what Erin or Amir has on that aspect, you can ignore it. It’s the data that makes them stand out. And yes, data needs to be subjectively reviewed, there are scientifically proven aspects of importance and “good form” to look for.
You’ve made a lot of subjective interpretations yourself based on the assumption the Sony is listened to in the nearfield. Very, very few will listen to these at 1m or less. These are used in home theaters and two channel setups for farfield listening. See how easy it is to pull a “gotcha”? I do listen before I measure. This is stated in various videos and in my written reviews. Numerous times. I wish you luck with your channel. But I ask you to not go into your venture by trying to make your fellow reviewers look bad. That’s not a good way to gain attention in the long run. And, as you can see, you have made some incorrect assumptions not just about the use of this particular speaker but also about how I review them. Take care. Erin
Two speakers I respectfully throw in the trash and start over. I keep trying my hardest to humble myself with cheap speakers. But it just cant be done. Or not yet at least. Speakers that measure well, sound well and a jack of all at their given price point are so hard to find. Are they even out there? At what price does it begin? 100 point just cant happen in a pair of bookshelf. 200 point is near imposable. 300 point better but still challenging.
You have the option...Erin mentioned that. Some don't. I simply couldn't swing for speakers over 300 a pair. I will allow for imperfections rather than do without music.
Just get the JBL 305P and a cheap balanced source. I have heard the $1500 Linton 85s on a $1100 Audiolab 6000A and IMO they are not even as good as the 305p with its godlike imaging and vocal clarity.
Shop vintage speakers and you can get a lot more bang for your bucks. My favorite after trying 25 to 30 highly regarded bookshelf speakers in my bedroom is the 1995 NHT SuperZero speakers with a decent subwoofer and you'll be very satisfied. If you don't have room for a subwoofer get a vintage pair of Bowers & Wilkins DM302 Prism bookshelf speakers.
If you can find the SS-CS5 on sale, and they are frequently on sale, then it's quite a decent budget bookshelf speaker. I don't necessarily think they're worth their MSRP, but they're not the worst value out there even at MSRP. In the end, though, you really have to hear them and judge for yourself. If you buy a set and they don't impress you, well, you can either sell them on or try to get a refund on them, or you can use them for surround effect speakers. They're surprisingly competent for that role.
I sold my Sony immediately after I own Elac BS41 and Polk ES15. Anything can compare with the cheap Japanese Sony SS-CS5, you should spend some more away from the toy speakers.
put all of the specs and measurements aside, and just listen to them - especially with the genre of music that you like, and at the volume you want to listen to them at. Get the ones that move you the most.
Sony is always bad at designing speaker enclosure. It's proven every time throughout the years. Not for audiophiles. At least, you can trust more on their non speaker device, such as the amplifiers.
I have bad experience with Sony audio products, so I'll pass. I have a set of SA-VE 315 surround speakers and they sound like garbage. At least for my taste. Never heard of this Neumi brand, wish I could listen to them.
now review the same sony SSCS5 speakers w/ the upgrade kit fr Danny of GR engineering and/ or fr Neil neilblanchard designs go ahead i dare you ! i double dare you ! LOL 🙂blind A-B test ! pick a winner ! to trully realise the greatness hear them w/ one of the avail crossover , et all mod kits! fr the upgrade kit fr Danny of GR engineering and/ or fr Neil neilblancharddesigns these become TRUE giant killers ! the new GR research mod kit basically makes the tweeter the mid range and the super tweeter the tweeter ! so YES addresses your concern! it sounds INCREDIBLE it now matches or surpasses $1,000 speakers! MUCHO better low , mid, upper !
I got the Sony’s and the bass can be upped with tone controls and it responds pretty well
"You get what you pay for." I never get what I paid for. Otherwise, I wouldn't be watching/reading reviews.
Might be the culture of there being just way too much garbage / product options and so searching gets to be pretty addicting.
I have used flat measuring speakers in my setup for years, sometimes using MCACC room correction, sometimes in pure direct mode.
Yet, despite the measurements and valid points of design flaws with the Sony sscs5, they sound much better in person than the evidence would suggest.
I suspect this may a case where some of the flaws were considered in the design in a way that harnessed their energy to some extent.
For gaming and movies, the sony are absolutely incredible, for streaming content and music, they "can" be incredible, given the right eq, setup, and volume levels.
Fair enough.
if the Sony s need eq and what not to sound right, that's a red flag
I run mine flat for everything but music. They do have a resonance but only when being pushed. For the price in my opinion worth it. My biggest complaint would be the rear port, they need plenty of space behind them to sound the best in my room.
If you have a receiver, integrated amp, or even a sub with a high pass filter, those cabinet resonant issues are a non issue. Running then at full range over 85 db…..they do start to break up. I love my Sony speakers.
I just picked up a used pair of the Sony's for my desktop. Very surprised by the sound quality for $75 amazed at the budget market today.
I am a fun sony. Somy soeakers are great
I got the Sony SS-CS5s very recently. I have a fair amount of experience with high and low end audio. I've owned everything from the plastic Klipsch garbage sold at best buy, to Klipsch RF-7iii's, RF7-I, RP 280s, and even their flagship home theater Ultra thx II's (the entire set). I've also had many Bowers and Wilkens , SVS ultras, Polk, Cambridge etc etc..
That said.. I'll tell ya what I think of these budget sonys..
I'm using them currently on my desktop for my computer gaming etc. I have a decent Logitech Z906 with a Creative X3 DAC, so there is decent power, an average sub (comes with the Z06, not interchangeable or able to add another sub), and play music with Tidal in Hi-Res.
In short, they are good, for 125buck or whatever they were on sale for when I bought them. They are very clear, clean, airy and I was surprised to hear some mids in tracks that I didn't even know where there.
I wouldn't say they are competing with 500 dollar bookshelves etc, but if all you can afford is something like this, HANDS down, you can't go wrong.
I will say, a subwoofer is a must though, and anything over 87db and sitting a few feet back, it starts to lose what makes them so amazing. So, in short, if you are looking for a really great sound, in an average or beginner HiFi listening setup, this is a great place to start.
Thx for reading guys
Another good video Erin. I like your approach to providing information. I agree with all of your comments, but hope the audience understands that if both speakers are powered by the same source/amplification AND the user adds a subwoofer, then the Sony really walks away from the Neumi as the lower bass advantage of the BS5 goes away and the better mid bass, midrange and highs of the Sony shine through. That said, I can clearly hear the cabinet resonance in mine (SSCS5) when playing above moderate volumes. I did not notice that as much in the Neumis. With a 20% price advantage my recco is the Sonys unless the user is a)never going to add a subwoofer b)listens at +100 dB c)can hear the cabinet resonance in my pair. ;-) Then I tell them to save up $100 more dollars and buy a pair Emotiva B1+.
Mr. Jeff Sony have amazing drivers,but cheap crossover parts and bad case make sound quality worse.. For Sony need new box, new crossover parts and perfectly use second magnet, neo magnet. Second anti-magnet make sony woofers super fast! 👍
I’m lucky that my old Sony ES receivers and Marantz receivers have high pass filter settings. This really helps with mitigating the cabinet resonance issues. When paying them at full range, they do break up at higher volumes. Still, I love the Sony SSCS5s.
I'm about a year late to this video but I think it's possible that sound that's not audible to your ears can affect how your body perceives the music whether you realize it or not. One of my neighbors has a system in his car that wakes me up every morning when he starts his car and he's not even that close to me. The bass I feel ripple through my body and my internal organs. So I would think it's plausible that frequencies beyond human hearing can still be felt by the body. In regards to the neighbor, I hope he's a renter and doesn't stay long. But also if you are a person with a car or truck that has a subwoofer that goes down super low it's possible that you are damaging your internal organs. If I can feel it in my organs from a long distance imagine what it would be like sitting right on top of it.
Ended up getting the Neumi speakers, stuffing the ports with some foam plugs from ali express, putting in the crossover mod from GR Research to flatten out the response, and sticking damping material ("No-Rez") to the inside of the cabinet (I then stuffed the stock polyfill damping in behind the woofer - so that cabinet is FULL of damping material now 😁).
I honestly think of all the mods the extra damping material may have made the most difference. I'm not sure if it is possible to "over damp" speakers, but if so mine probably are at this point! But man does it sound smooooth. I know many would disagree, and I won't argue with them, but after all the mods I personally like the sound of my modified Neumis better than my buddy's KEF R3 Metas.
I will concede that they are likely in no way capable of blowing you away in terms of SPL. But I've never listened to them at more than 50% volume on my Sony ZA3100ES AVR anyway. And most of the time it's more like 30-40%. The SPL meter in my phone (for what it's worth - which I am highly dubious of) claims my peak listening volume is somewhere around 70 dB at the listening position (which probably means about 80 dB at the source which is 8 or 9 feet away) so according to that I shouldn't be anywhere near the levels of severe compression/distortion of the drivers that your measurements indicate anyway. (Is anyone actually trying to listen to these cranked to 102 dB??? 😳 And, if I understand correctly, that's for a SINGLE SPEAKER which would be like 108 dB for a pair if I'm not mistaken. Ouch! 😵💫)
Would be very curious to see the Klippel measure my modded ones, but alas I'm no where near Texas and you probably have more important things to measure than my Frankenstein speakers. 🤣
thank you for your comment. i am interested what your friend with the R3 Meta say about your modified neumi.
@@barsei1511 Honestly he doesn't have a lot to say about them 😂 I don't know if that's because he doesn't want to offend me or if he regrets spending such an incredible sum on his Kef's.
Hi very interesting
Small speakers with limited SPLs in the lower range benefit from adding mass to the cabinet
This action moves resonances down in frequency out of the speaker working range
So the sound is clearer
Hi-Res audio exposed by my guy Erin! I’m not too fond on the whole hi res marketing myself or maybe I’m just salty because my hearing after 15khz is pretty crappy lol
2nd comment for me. It might just be my ears but sealed speakers almost always sound better to me. Also for some reason silk or soft dome tweeters also sound better to me. In a small room I find the vintage mid to late 1990s NHT Super Zero speakers to be in a league of their own and I tried bookshelf speakers costing up to $1000 a pair. Obviously I didn't try every speaker but I tried many highly rated speakers and in the end the NHT Super Zeros were the champs. Honorable mention to Bowers & Wilkins DM302 Prism speakers, JM Labs Chorus 705 speakers and Mission 8VET (aka MS5). I even liked the NHT Super Zeros over the NHT Super Ones.
Respectfully, I disagree. I have both speakers. The Neumi is an impressive speaker for the price, but it's rather boring. The Sony has a far better top end, I would even say a very impressive top end that will compete with speaker that cost far more. I thought the super tweeter was a gimmick too, but oddly, it really does add something to it. Granted, I can hear higher frequencies than most people can, always have been able to. You're right about the bass, the Neumi is better and the Sony lacks some there. But, I use a sub with all my speakers. And yeah, the Sony isn't all that pretty. But we're buying speakers, not furniture. I've compared them side by side many times. The Neumi is good, but rather boring, The Sony has the dynamics to make it exciting. Winner, Sony.
Ken, what would you say is better for voice? I initially bought the Neumi's for my elderly mom - she has a hard time hearing her TV shows and they do perform well for that even at low volume. No experience with the Sony speakers. Thanks!
@@bobbygaglione7553 The Sonys. The highs and mids are very good on them. Very clear and sharp. I'm listening to them right now in my shop. Their lows aren't great, but with a sub that's a non-issue.
I understand why you say that. And as you call the Sony “sharp” I would likewise say that’s why I’m not fond of them. The data is also pretty indicative of the Sony having more zest in the HF thanks to the peaking above 10kHz and the dip/peak pattern which cause some frequencies to stand out. And this is precisely why I find the Neumi better; it is a more neutral speaker overall. One man’s “neutral” is another’s “boring”. Plenty of speakers to go around. 👍
@@ErinsAudioCorner I suspect you prefer warmer speakers, and that is fine. We all have different preferences. My ears can hear the wonderful dynamics the Sonys produce and to me they sound much better than the Neumis. I will say that the Neumis have great imaging, but their lack of dynamics is pretty boring. I still have them but they are sitting in the "meh" pile. Where they do excel is in near field applications.
@@kencooper2059 nah. I like neutral speakers. Warm would not be my preference either. 👍
Response Linearity (Compression, at 20:52): related to my "Low-end response" post earlier, you see a better compression performance by Sony compared to Neumi below 100Hz at your 86dB measurement. The mid-to-highs compression performance between the two does not seem to be significant. The "craaaazy stuff" that Sony does at 96dB and 102dB should really not matter if the end-user is informed what kind of application these speakers are intended for (see my previous posts). What to do you think?
“Application these speakers are intended for”
Show me where Sony states these are intended for near-field usage.
On Amazon the listing states:
“Bookshelf speaker with Hi-Res Audio perfect for your home theater or music listening setup”
Tons of people use these in living room sized spaces, and the majority of people don’t have subwoofers, and even for those that do, many use stereo amps without crossovers, so these Sony’s would still be playing the same bass, and it could be very boomy when a dominant 50Hz note is being played.
^ ditto
Better to cut than boost, eq for the win!
Damn I wish I knew about them Neumi speakers before I bought the Eris 3.5s. The Neumi seem really good. The only thing tho is that theyre passive speakers and I need active speakers.
Edit: They actually have an active/powered set called NEUMI BS5P-ARC for $170
I have ssc5 and I didn’t find them great in the near field but 6 feet away in a fairly good sized room they sounded great , they sounded fun but I doubt it’s accurate or you’d use them for mixing what so ever.
same
Sony looks cool for the price
Hey Erin, from your test results, what do you think would be a proper crossover for the Sony speakers?
can these bs5 speakers be placed horizontally on its side?
Nicely done 😎👍
For just a little more money I always recommend the NHT SuperOne 2.1 or the Ascend Acoustics HTM 200 SE. I would love to see one of those tested one day. Glad to see this channel growing!
Good suggestions. I’ll try to remember those for the future!
a little money? if someone is looking to spend $100, i dont think they will think 3x the price is "a little more money"
even the Superzero is great if it's understood that it needs a sub for most applications; some reviewers pretend to compare the Superzero's "bass" with bigger spkrs, it just isn't there but in my bedroom I don't need a sub.
Would love to see NHT reviews in the channel.
Sonys are amazing... I like them way more than much more expensive speakers ... maybe I can hear above 15k not sure but there is a lot more to this speaker than this review shares
Meh. I disagree. But they're speakers, so it's not like we're talking life or death. You like 'em... rock 'em. 👍
@@ErinsAudioCorner I have elac ND klipisch don't think they hit as good.whats your recommendation near this price point
I'd guess the Neumi would be helped with straws in the ports - it could tame the bass bump a bit and extend the bass a bit deeper. And maybe help the ~850Hz dip?
I am of the opinion that the ~1100Hz bump in the Sony is a resonance in the plastic tweeter plate. The upper smaller tweeter is wired inverted, so it is causing the dip at the top.
If you have to plug ports then they're junk
*I always purchase the bargain speakers, then remove the hardware and line the inside of the speakers "glued" with MASS LOADED VINYL, sometimes even two layers!!! Then I add/ fill it with ceramic foam or mineral wool to the inside and then I seal with edges of the inside of the box with acoustic seal...! This always improves the performance of speakers 200%-300% making the drivers run vastly more affecting by removing the the resonance/vibratory issues of the cabinet. Then get a BEHRINGER DIGITAL EQ or their loud speaker management system and use it to TUNE the speakers further to the room! NO MATTER WHERE I HAVE GONE OR WHO I HAVE IN MY ROOMS, THEY ARE ALWAYS BLOWN BACK FOR A LOOP!... Look everyone DO NOT BE-LIE-VE THE HYPE OF EXPENSIVE GEAR!............................... They will take the exact same tech and put it inside a different product and because it is MARKETED to a different industry, the price changes!*
Hi Erin, love the work you do on your channel and used some of the info you provided to buy some of my speakers. I have a question though, would the Sony ss-cs5 perform well as side,rear or surrounds or front heights for atmos? I bought a pair recently to to use as surround speakers. sadly I do not live in the US so i would not be able to return easily. I was also looking at the Polk OWM3 which seems to also recommended as surround / atmos speakers. Also, I am using a sub "Monolith M12 V2" so i am not looking for bass form the Sony's.
I think these 2 are the better cheapo speakers out there. The Sonys are a steal at under $100.....and so are the Neumi's at near $100. I have a pair of powered Neumis.....they are not too loud and are perfect for that 3rd or 4th room or teenager room as a do it all, with an optical connection for the TV, either a coaxial or rca for the blueray/CD player (make sure you get a Sony with a front USB player so you can play your FLACS/CD quality files) plus, and this is what is most important to young people, bluetooth so they can stream low quality crap to the speakers from their (apparently) only physical source of music: Their cell phones!
The broader-radiating Neumi strikes me as the better choice for nearfield use, ports stuffed. Compared to the wretched world of PC multimedia speakers, their spin looks like heaven.. a bit of EQ here and there and you should be set, minus the question of a desktop amplifier that is. The vertical has some issues so stay within -10/+20° or so.
I don't really think a supertweeter has a space on a budget speaker... that's more _shtick_ than solid engineering. Horizontal off-axis response on the SS-CS5 is really looking quite good though, it may be flattest around 30° so I would suggest no toe-in for these. The 1 kHz bump seems to be an unfortunate combination of baffle step and enclosure resonance coinciding. I'd say the more enterprising owners may want to tackle the latter physically and EQ out the former... I don't think many are going to want to make the cabinet wide enough to support the 250-300 Hz area instead.
The real non-marked down price for the Sony is about 200.00 min. But I got mine for 95. Crazy pricing on these speakers.
I just ordered the Neumi BS5 ( Two Pair) I want a 4 speaker set up. I will also be using a powered sub. a Monoprice 60-watt 8 inch . My receiver is a Sony STR-DH 190. I also plan on stuffing the front ports with some foam, I saw another video, and the stuffed ports made a noticable improvement, that was seen on the test chart. The placement of my speakers will be about 7 ft. high in my garage in each corner , about a foot from the wall. My garage ceiling is about eight feet high with fiber board material for insulating and looks. What are your thoughts as to stuffing the ports, and my speaker placement? Thank you.
I'm running the Neumi 4 speakers bookshelf and center channel!!!!!!! 2 12 svs pb 2000s subwoofers! Simple setup 5.1 👌 I like them clean sound!!!!!!
These nuemi speakers are 6ohm I shouldn't have a problem right ?
GR-Research showed them having almost perfect linerarity with $250 in mods. Wondering how much value they would be then.
I like mine with the mods '🙂
Hey Erin, I currently have the BS5 as my front L/R in my 5.1 setup and am liking them. I am underwhelmed with my surrounds. Would you think it would be a good idea to use another set of the BS5 as surrounds or would they be overkill? If so what would you recommend
No it’s not overkill go for it all speakers everywhere the same would be the best
I think the Sony’s biggest issue are the crossovers. They aren’t matched well to the speakers. I’ve seen people redo the crossovers and they sound really good.
Strongly considering the Neumi BS5 they would be powered by a 90's receiver Technics SA-DX930 rated for 8 ohm output would the 6 ohm rating for the Neumi matter ?
Nah.
Hi Erin, can I ask you what crossover setting you suggest for Sony SSCS5?
I set my Crossover at 70Hz on HSU Subwoofer.
My goodness!
You can show the measurements of a speaker but what about the measurements of you own hearing. I have this problem with all reviewers when they're giving their own subjective opinions.
If I had a graph of a speakers FR and a graph of a reviewers own hearing FR overlaid with it, my job understanding their comments would make much more sense. Anechoic measurements can reveal certain things but can't predict a speakers sound in each specific environment. So try out speakers in your own environment with several different genres of music. Know that cheaper speakers may sound good at moderate volume levels, but probably won't sound good at high volume levels.
I have a pair of the Sony SS-CS5s in my living room for TV/Video sound and music. I read several favorable reviews before I bought them. In my opinion I'm getting better bass performance, listening to music, than the reviewers said they got. I've played tracks that reviewers recommended for testing bass output and these Sonys amaze me time and time again. I listen to most genres of music and they have performed well instrumentally and vocally with all of them. FYI the SPL I listen at is normally 85-92 DB.
You question hearing, then question the use of measurements. It seems you’ve created a stalemate.
That’s good you like the Sony. Have you also tried the Neumi? I have. I preferred the latter. That’s really all there is to it. As I said in the video, it’s cheap enough to try both and send back the ones you don’t like because it’s up to you at the end of the day.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I'm not questioning the validity of measurements or what you said you heard and your preference. My environment is quite different from yours so my experience is too. I'm just pointing out the shortcomings of objective data from reviewers in general. We may have the measurements from the speaker but if we don't know the reviewers hearing ability we can't accurately assess their comments. For example, most people as they age experience a decline in their ability to hear certain frequencies. Normally it's in the higher frequency range. Yet there are a number of well known reviewers getting up in age but still pumping out reviews. That's the reason why it would be valuable to know their actual hearing abilities. That way we could better understand their comments.
*I am, a behringer ada500 with RME converters!*
Do you think supertweeters might have value for reproducing frequencies above 16khz where quite a few tweeters struggle? I notice a lot of speakers (except focal for some reason) start to roll off a bit around 16khz.
They can have their place and it does seem that they are decently integrated into this design. That said, most speakers that use them probably have directivity issues in the vertical plane as does this one. You can see the evidence in the vertical SPL response graphics where the response starts to turn into a wave pattern as you go above/below the reference axis (above about 7kHz).
I thought the crossover for the super tweeter was at 12khz I thought I’ve heard a couple people say that.
Isnt the rolloff due to the waveguide and not the tweeter itself?
I have the Sonys. I just use the bass boost and also have it relatively close to a wall. It's not ideal but it's okay since I don't listen at high volumes. I'm wondering if there is any modern speaker with a 6.5" woofer (and not much bigger in overall cabinet size than the Sonys ) that legitimately has a flat frequency response curve of 48hz to 18Khz +/- 3db (relatively flat curve) like the vintage EPI model 100s used to have. I don't have the space for a bigger speaker with an 8" woofer like the vintage EPI 100s. I used to have EPI 100s but the surrounds rotted and now I don't have the space for a big speaker like the vintage EPI 100s in the room that my stereo is currently located. Just wondering if there might be a smaller modern equivalent to the EPI 100 that isn't much bigger than the Sony's and not too expensive. I don't care if it has a ported enclosure if the frequency response is nice and flat without any chuffing noises. Any recommendations? Or just keep the Sony's and rely on the bass boost?
look into the cheaper older Elac speakers
Why no comments on how the Sony sounds with 1 kHz EQ down some?
Man, this was 3 years ago. I don’t even remember what I had for breakfast this morning.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Actually I have been wondering about this altogether. Many of the things that are objectionable about various speakers in your discussions seem to me to be quite fixable by simple EQ . Not that this would fix everything(no effect on radiation pattern for instance) But still it would seem reasonable to try some EQ. Amir does this, for example. Not that this necessarily means that you should , but it does seem to me like a good idea to consider. I know this was a while ago but the issue is still around, How about some EQ to fix things and reporting on the results?
The clif-like dip around 850hz on Neumi is absolutely unacceptable.
What do you think of a horizontal dowel brace in the Sony? Help it or no?
It's a bit late now, as I suspect they are being discontinued and I'm not sure for how long they will still be available but the Polk T50s were also very budget friendly. Also, at least in Europe they are easier to come across than the Pioneer F52s (not sure if that's the name), which were close competition. You wouldn't happen to have a pair at hand for testing?
Sure don’t.
Erin, can you please do the KEF Q300? Please? I know you did the Q150... but the Q300 seem to be so different sonically that it seems to not even even be a Q range speaker. Thats why it is important and very helpfull if you do the Q300.
No interest in surround sound-home theater, etc. Just trying to set up an old school stereo for music. Just smaller than my Cerwin-Vega Hardrockers from the days of yore. No audio stores to actually hear speakers these days. It's pretty much amazon or else. Best Buy is pretty limited in offereings. Plus, they don't have many in-store listening options other than what the manufacturer wants you to hear. That said, would the Neumi's be good? Thanks!
Estimated In-Room Response (at 15:46 and 16:16): again, it's interesting how you make your subjective review/opinion by interpreting your own objective measurements.
You’re trying really hard to make me look bad, it seems but you’ve shown a lack of understanding the use case and the data itself based on all your other comments. That’s not cool, man.
@@ErinsAudioCorner No, I don’t Erin. I wrote that I find your videos rewarding. I’ve watched many of them and clicked the like button. In fact, your reviews on the Kali Audio models influenced me to explore them further. At 16:27 you say that it’s up to the viewer to judge which Estimated In-room Response is better between the two. You make the effort to produce these measurements (which I definitely respect and pay attention to) and, in this case, its up to your or the viewer’s subjective opinion to determine which one is better (e.g. one can interpret the Sony has a better slope with not-so-significantly worse dips and peaks than the Neumi). Two suggestions: 1) can’t you develop (or use a standardized) reference baseline performance for Estimated In-room Response as a visual addition to the graph? and also calculate and present a metric that indicates how much overall deviation it is between the reference and actual measurement? That metric could be a clear indicator of comparison between two speaker models. 2) can you publish an in-depth video on how you reason your analysis on Estimated In-room Response performance? In case you already have, just put the link here. Regards, Babak
Do you think the Neumi's would benefit from foam port bungs to help that dip @825hz area?
There is graph of Neumi with ports stuffed later in the video.
Horizontal radiation (at 15:57): the proper application of both these loudspeakers is to be used as near-field monitors and listened by one single person. The narrower and seemingly better horizontal dispersion performance is clear here, isn't it? Again, it's interesting how you make your subjective review/opinion by interpreting your own objective measurements.
Off axis importance is not just for multiple listeners, it’s also for room reflections.
Where in the world would you derive these are for nearfield use?
Harmonic distortion (at 19:56): who is going to listen to these speakers at 96dB at 1 meter? In such a case, the end-user has done a completely wrong choice to purchase these speakers. Sony has a slightly better mid-to-high distortion performance as well as the low-end below 80Hz. And that at 96dB at 1 meter which shouldn't be the way these speakers are intended to be used. I already concluded in my previous post that none of these speakers should be used without subwoofer. To inform the audience about their proper application would be wise to do, wouldn't it? (not only for home-theater users to get a subwoofer and a high-pass filter/crossover). And perhaps present this measurement at 86dB.
Here’s a question as an answer: extrapolate 96dB at 1m to 3 or 4 meters. Now, what do you have?
Rolls off sooner next to the wall? I always thought it made the bass boomier being close to the wall..........anywho with my Kefs i don't really have to worry about it.
I figured when I saw the "super tweeter" it was just gonna be unnecessary
Depends on what part you're referencing. Near a wall will increase bass thanks to boundary loading but if the speaker is already falling like a rock (the Sony) compared to another (the Neumi) then it makes less sense to stuff the port of it and place it next to a wall.
Erin, I would disagree with your front/rear port assessment. In my home-made speakers I (due to a lack of knowledge) had got a box standing wave combined with a front port pipe resonance. And that caused not a dip but a huge (about 10 dB) sharp peak in the response.
Measure the response anechoically. In-room is dominated by the room.
Check out my Kali LP-6/8 reviews. You see the same traits.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I don't know. That was measured in Harman's anechoic chamber in Northridge, CA. I think that peak vs. dip effect more depends on the port's internal end location within a box rather than external port placement (front/rear/etc.).
Great review on sony sscs5 I just got a pair to see for myself why some people like these speakers, I did add a small used Yamaha subwoofer They are not best i ever heard no but sometimes they sound great and I turn the volume up louder. 😊
Your comment about hi-res is just precious ;) keep up the great work
I sold my Sony and got a pair of Neumi.
How do you like them so far? Been comparing the Sonys to the bs5 for while now haven’t made my mind up yet.
@@johnnybravo4976 Neumi sounds more neutral, Sony sounds a little sweet, both are good budget speakers
I feel like it would not be too hard to bypass that super tweeter? Would be interesting.
The only thing that matters is how they sound. That’s it. For the price, Sony’s are a no brainer. Better than most speakers 3 and 4 times the price. They are amazing. Got mine for $89. Nothing else on the market compares at that price point. League of its own.
I agree. I love the heck out of mine. I'm powering them with an Emotiva BASX-TA100 integrated amplifier. I know that most people are not going to spend $500 to $600 on power to drive sub $100 speakers, but these Sonys are awesome. I don't agree with Erin at all. I spent more than a year trying to find bookshelf speakers with a budget of $1k and nothing wow'd me enough to pull the trigger. Due to so many amazing reviews, I bought them for $88.00 on sale, and I could not be happier. They are very open, airy, non-fatiguing at all on the top end, amazing mid range, rolled off bottom end, which I'm more thank ok with considering the fantastic mid and top end. I have an 8" Definitive Technology subwoofer that blends perfectly together. It must be my ears, I guess, but the Sonys are awesome!!!!
I honestly don't get the hype over the Sony's. I've owned them twice. The first time I didn't like them. Then rave reviews started popping up everywhere so I thought.. hmm maybe I missed something. So I bought them *again* and still don't like them lol. And these last ones I picked up for $75! But they're a pass at ANY price for me. Just so many better options out there imo for not a lot of extra money. Sell something you haven't used for years out of your garage and put it to the speaker budget. Even $50 more will make a huge difference.
Horrible speakers in every aspect. Maybe if you are in high school and only have $75 to spend for speakers and $40 on an amp. Then it's better than nothing I guess. But then I still think that money would be better spent on a JBL Bluetooth speaker.
I feel like i'm the only one rocking the Sony Core Series speakers in a HT right now. For near field in my apartment, I thought the towers, and bookshelves were great. Center channel I had to boost the dBs. They are my first speaker line up and once we bought a house, all the magic was gone. I can't wait to upgrade.
I have both the bookshelf and the floorstanders. For the money, they are excellent! Yeah, I have speakers that are better, but they cost a lot more.
@@kencooper2059 it's just my living room is too big for the Sonys.
@@mikeortiz2139 They will handle small to medium sized rooms, especially if you aren't driving them at very high volumes. I'm using them in a shop that is probably bigger than most living rooms and they do fine. I am using a sub with them, which helps.
Nope. I been rocking it as well for sometime now. No complains here.
@James Clouse nice to hear man. I've been watching movie after movie this week. Minidsp just came in. Got to hook that up. But I've noticed in my LV that the Sonys can make sound but it's not as detailed as it was in my apt. Although it could be that my house is an echo chamber.
I totally understand why some folks would poo-poo the idea of powered speakers instead of passive ones like these, but in this pricepoint I seriously don't get it. For $300 I got myself a pair of brand new Edifier s2000pro-mkii's with built-in amplification AND DAC. And everything was matched at the factory to work together perfectly so I didn't have to worry about convoluted causality chains where I kept switching things out. If you've got $1400 to spend, sure, go passive -- but I don't get why a person wouldn't just let the builder make all the decisions in this value-space.
Does the super tweeter increase off axis response?
no, smaller tweeters will be even more directional
@@FSXgta wrong
It does at the upper octaves where it is crossed over. The important thing is making sure it is crossed over to the tweeter correctly and isn’t “fighting” the tweeter’s upper off-axis response.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Sony has added super tweeters for the longest time, all those boombox / shelf systems came with piezoelectric attached to a mylar dome. Did just enough to be noticeable with "air"
By AVR, you mean AV receiver? Isn’t that just a 2 in 1 amp?
Yes.
Sonys all day
Erin, are you not interested about experiment and build your own DIY speakers ? With this klippel equipment and your knowledge i'm sure you can get a impressive result. It is my dream to get this klippel equipment for getting into building a high end loudspeaker. I'm actually just using Omnimic V2 and Dats V2.
I am. It’s just a time thing for me, personally. I might have something really cool for you all sometime in the near future, though. 👍
Have you ever heard Dayton Audio 402x? They are in the same price point as those. Thanks for the video as always.
Ah. Interesting:
A port in the front usually give a dip.
A port in the rear usually give a boost.
Could it be that s port in the front cancel out the woofer? So when woofer go out the port suck in and vice versa.
And that will be at a certain frequency when air is not as fast as the woofer then it will only show up in a rather narrow frequency window.
Ahh it is the resonance leaking out from the port..
@@joanfrederick9176 I use dipole (OB).
I had been interested in the Sonys. Even just recently, I'd seem them listed new as low as in the $60'ish dollar range. Not too much to lose here. I was just going to pick some up to try for fun. Yes, this speaker has been well received by a lot of folks. After your deep-dive objective/subjective review, there are enough fundamental limitations that I'm going to pass.
Folks may have seen Danny Richie's look at this speaker. Danny's take seems interesting and clever - give the super-tweeter tweeter duty (yes, lose the super-tweeter function), and the tweeter midrange duty. I would love to hear Danny's tweaked SS-CS5, but for the cost I feel it would better to just go with something different
Ya gotta measure. I always paid some attention to measurements, but with this channel (thanks, Erin!!), and some others, I've been looking closer at measurements. Data can really help to navigate/balance the subjective/objective thing. Without any measurements, we end up subjectively attempting to mix 'n match and line up greater or lesser amounts of distortion and acoustic aberration until something shows up that we kinda like. The better behaved gear is, the easier it is to get to even just work properly.
I kinda regret buying them but I never bothered to see any measurements beforehand
Low-end response: as seen in your measurements (at 9:39 and 12:40), both Sony and Neumi hit 80dB at 70Hz. Neumi hits 83dB at 100Hz while Sony hits 86dB at 100Hz. Now, we all should know that these two loudspeakers should be listened to by one single person as near-field monitors (listened to around 85dB) and they both certainly need subwoofer to get one centimeter closer to Audiorealism. Hence, Neumi's better low-end roll-off does really not matter, does it? In fact, the end user should understand / be advised to use subwoofer and also send high-pass filtered signal to these loudspeakers. You repeatedly saying that Neumi has a "better base" than Sony. That, to my book, is a subjective review/opinion based on an objective measurement. Doesn't it?
It seems you're not taking sensitivity into account..? The Neumi has a sensitivity of 82.7dB and the Sony 86.2dB. You have to calculate the LF extension from those figures. The Neumi has F10 at 40Hz, the Sony at 60Hz. Quite a big difference.
@@eetu2532 Agreed. And, no way will 100% of customers use a subwoofer, so of course the bass performance is important and shouldn’t be discarded because “both certainly need a subwoofer”.
I said - at least twice - that a subwoofer would be needed for either speaker.
F3 is 15Hz apart. As the other guys said, you’re interpreting the data incorrectly. 👍
Hello Erin, whether or not the series of my feedback/comments may come across as criticism or siding with the Sony speakers, I have observed over-time that the "Objectivists" audiophile reviewer camp that you and the gentleman at 'Audio Science Review' represent ultimately produce subjective reviews based on your own interpretation of measurement data. Well, at least, in lack of a current consensus / unified testing method, I certainly do hope that you accompany your reviews by applying a systematic and proper subjective listening protocol, and unlike ASR, actually listen to a pair of speakers and not a mono signal to describe your subjective experience. At my channel, I am exploring a few fundamental issues and potential solutions and hope to start producing those works soon. Keep up the good work👍 I enjoy your reviews and find them rewarding. Regards, Babak, Hi-Reality project
Erin listens to them before measuring, and typically in stereo.
The thing is though, anybody can listen to speakers. So if you don’t like what Erin or Amir has on that aspect, you can ignore it. It’s the data that makes them stand out. And yes, data needs to be subjectively reviewed, there are scientifically proven aspects of importance and “good form” to look for.
You’ve made a lot of subjective interpretations yourself based on the assumption the Sony is listened to in the nearfield. Very, very few will listen to these at 1m or less. These are used in home theaters and two channel setups for farfield listening.
See how easy it is to pull a “gotcha”?
I do listen before I measure. This is stated in various videos and in my written reviews. Numerous times.
I wish you luck with your channel. But I ask you to not go into your venture by trying to make your fellow reviewers look bad. That’s not a good way to gain attention in the long run. And, as you can see, you have made some incorrect assumptions not just about the use of this particular speaker but also about how I review them.
Take care.
Erin
Self powered speakers i don't know about spending money on these when have an AVR or a integranted amplifier.
?
Aperion is good product, then and now.
Likely so. But “by todays standards” that pair I had back then may not be as good. :)
I have both speakers. I have a hard time saying that it's better the sscs5. I don't think it's close to the sony .88bucks .man can't go wrong
Sony are $200
they will let you keep them if you give them a good review
Two speakers I respectfully throw in the trash and start over. I keep trying my hardest to humble myself with cheap speakers. But it just cant be done. Or not yet at least. Speakers that measure well, sound well and a jack of all at their given price point are so hard to find. Are they even out there? At what price does it begin? 100 point just cant happen in a pair of bookshelf. 200 point is near imposable. 300 point better but still challenging.
You have the option...Erin mentioned that. Some don't. I simply couldn't swing for speakers over 300 a pair. I will allow for imperfections rather than do without music.
Just get the JBL 305P and a cheap balanced source. I have heard the $1500 Linton 85s on a $1100 Audiolab 6000A and IMO they are not even as good as the 305p with its godlike imaging and vocal clarity.
Shop vintage speakers and you can get a lot more bang for your bucks. My favorite after trying 25 to 30 highly regarded bookshelf speakers in my bedroom is the 1995 NHT SuperZero speakers with a decent subwoofer and you'll be very satisfied. If you don't have room for a subwoofer get a vintage pair of Bowers & Wilkins DM302 Prism bookshelf speakers.
I can hear up to 15k hz. Oh well.
Some say you can "feel" beyond what you can hear. I don't know. Never paid attention to it.
With the measurements out. If you have $100 for some speakers, keep saving for something better ;)
If you can find the SS-CS5 on sale, and they are frequently on sale, then it's quite a decent budget bookshelf speaker. I don't necessarily think they're worth their MSRP, but they're not the worst value out there even at MSRP. In the end, though, you really have to hear them and judge for yourself. If you buy a set and they don't impress you, well, you can either sell them on or try to get a refund on them, or you can use them for surround effect speakers. They're surprisingly competent for that role.
I like the Sony (BTW, I do own a pair).
Can't say much about the Neumi as I have never listened to them.
I sold my Sony immediately after I own Elac BS41 and Polk ES15. Anything can compare with the cheap Japanese Sony SS-CS5, you should spend some more away from the toy speakers.
My Marantz AVR just had an update, any idea what for?
The Sony cabinet is SO cheap ... Dropped it three inches and the corner crushed in ..
Neumi costs almost 300€ on Amazon in Europe :|
put all of the specs and measurements aside, and just listen to them - especially with the genre of music that you like, and at the volume you want to listen to them at. Get the ones that move you the most.
JBL 530 is down to $229, w/ free returns, do it please and thank you!
I've actually got a set here from a friend on loan. :)
*WTH my son??! NO SOUND TEST??!*
schiet, I can't hear over 14k anymore
I can still hear crt tvs and monitors.
15.6 KHz is the CRT freq
@@manFromPeterborough Thank you always wondered that lol
Now if I can just figure out what freq tinnitus is 🤔
@@randomtube8226 ouch
Those measurements don't even compare. The Sony is flat out a better measuring speaker. Very clean sound too.
I can hear up to 12khz. And I mean, I can just barely hear, not actually discern the sound...
Yeah that plastic section on the sony looks really cheap.
Sony is always bad at designing speaker enclosure. It's proven every time throughout the years.
Not for audiophiles. At least, you can trust more on their non speaker device, such as the amplifiers.
I have bad experience with Sony audio products, so I'll pass. I have a set of SA-VE 315 surround speakers and they sound like garbage. At least for my taste. Never heard of this Neumi brand, wish I could listen to them.
The sony is the best bro.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
now review the same sony SSCS5 speakers w/ the upgrade kit fr Danny of GR engineering and/ or fr Neil neilblanchard designs
go ahead i dare you ! i double dare you ! LOL 🙂blind A-B test ! pick a winner !
to trully realise the greatness hear them w/ one of the avail crossover , et all mod kits! fr the upgrade kit fr Danny of GR engineering and/ or fr Neil neilblancharddesigns
these become TRUE giant killers !
the new GR research mod kit basically makes the tweeter the mid range and the super tweeter the tweeter ! so YES addresses your concern! it sounds INCREDIBLE it now matches or surpasses $1,000 speakers! MUCHO better low , mid, upper !
The fact that you speak favorably about a speaker that has a 10 dB NOTCH in the middle of the vocal range tells me all I need to know about you.
You didn’t watch the video or you ignored the caveats made.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I did watch the whole video, and stand by my statment.