Dante CatBOX | Will Audinate EVER Sell Raw Modules to the Public?
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2021
- #dantespokenhere
episode: 233 First Uploaded: Sept 27, 2021
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Would you buy raw Dante modules if they were available to the public? They're already available to manufacturers right now, but why not everyone else? www.audinate.com/products/man... - Let us know in the comments below what you think & what projects you would use them for so we can show Audinate if there is a demand.
This is not a sponsored video - though some gear that appears in this video was sent in by manufacturers for these demonstrations.
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Id buy 10 of them as soon as they came out. Ive already embedded the AVIO adapters into projects.
Honestly I would buy so many of these of they made them
Yep, would absolutely use barebone modules in Dante retrofit projects and experiments. Would be cool to have a prototyper's kit of either just the bare board or board plus an optional prototyper case that uses a metal barrel body like the Soundtools Cat Tail. Case would be a panel-mountable Neutrik D RJ45 on one end so it can be secured into a case or rack if needed and a range of "cap" end sockets for the other end of the can that come with tails to plug into the Audinate board inside the can. Would be nice to have some oddball connectors like mini XLR, or even just a solder tail straight onto a PCB. Bottom line - would be nice to not have to trash the sealed ABS moulded case to try something out!
This would be amazing. I would buy several
Preach on! Gotta love the DIY spirit.
100% would buy
Yep. Would be SO cool to be able to purchase those modules!
I haven't thought about this before but now that you're bringing it up, I feel it'd be an amazing idea for Audinate to sell raw modules to the public!
Thanks for the message Josh!
Yes would love to get the modules ... geat video ! thanks
Thanks for the message - if you need 10+ you can get them from these guys now... daleproaudio.com/collections/audinate-dante-adapter-modules
I've emailed them before in 2019 (the before times) about this exact issue before. They want volume, NDA, and probably have no desire to deal with the home gamer.
"Audinate sells the raw Analog Input and Output modules for companies to build new products which will be sold commercially to the market. We offer a starter kit for companies to build a limited run of a product before transitioning into a commercial production with more volumes.
The Analog Input Module starter kit consists of 10 input modules for $995.00. With a purchase of the starter kit, we would need to execute our NDA and Dante License Agreement. Once you get the modules, you would be required to supply an RJ45 on the Dante end of the device and applicable analog connections to the other end of the device along with mounting hardware."
A "starter kit" should include ALL the modules, or at least let the developer decide which ones.
I would absolutely want these modules
Absolutely would be interested in a product like this.
totally would use that!
Thanks for the message Usti, it's a super handy tool to have around for certain things.
Just yes, especially with a CL or QL
I think is a great ideia. Normally most audio professionals know how to solder and do their cables. This would be great to make integrations!
I agree, Thanks for the message!
I hadn’t thought about doing this before, but I am just starting with Dante and don’t have that much gear that supports it yet. (Still using my Roland REAC gear). I do mainly video work, but I am now thinking about taking apart the plastic cases on 2 or 3 of the AVIO modules I have and putting them inside of some racked gear. I could easily fit them in my rack mounted monitor speaker and replace an rj45 on the rear panel with an ethercon jack. Same with my ifb controller. It would certainly clean up the back of the fly pack rack case. I would certainly buy the modules, especially if they were a few bucks cheaper than the AVIO modules with xlr pigtails and a plastic case.
Now that you mentioned it, I have Dante AVIOs in my workbag. I may DIY them and put them in a box. Great vid as always.
Send photos if you do!
@@DcSoundOp Still undecided though. The cost to create a "Dante box" is definitely not cheap. Catbox + AVIOs..
this will be helpful for a band with multitrack setup, also the Dante chipset will improve the audio quality cause their wordclock
I would love to see Sound Tools, specifically, manufacture Dante-enabled Cat boxes. I'd be a regular customer.
As a manufacturer, they can buy these modules right now. I doubt it would be a cheap endeavor though to start manufacturing Dante enabled devices.
i would love to
awesome idea totally support it
Thanks Linus, hoping this video gets enough attention for Audinate to consider selling the modules direct to the public.
@@DcSoundOp yep me too!! :)
yes.. most def... please talk to them and let them know... i would just convert alllllll my instruments
I'm not sure how much use I'd get out of creating my own modules with the two-channel boards from the AVIOs, especially (if memory serves me correctly) I would still need preamps to connect mics to in the input variants. However, something a bit larger like the NA2 interfaces from Neutrik might be useful. Of course, going much bigger, it would probably be simpler to use Dante-enabled I/O rack like the Yamaha Tio/Rio.
Yeah, if you need microphone level inputs, the AVIO adapters are probably not going to be the tool for you.
It would be great to stick them in our crown XTI 6002’s. We already have yamaha consoles so dante is already being used!
Same deal with my fleet of Yamaha DXS speakers, throw one in the back, add an Ethernet port to the speaker and hey presto you have a Dante speaker.
Nice!
Thank you! Cheers!
I'd love it from a prototype/ dev option - but I also understand wanting to make sure that that their product isnt blamed for end user misuse/ misunderstanding. For example, I'd love to wire up a couple custom powered speakers with dante endpoints built in - Could be fun to throw one into a mic body and just have a ethercon on the bottom for an oddball dante input. Would also love to build a simple system check music ras-pi or whatever with some dante capabilities - even if just to use the DAC in the dante output rather than rely on adding a sufficient/ safe / isolated dac in the ras PI. Is the only way to currently get the 1-2/ch to cut it out of other devices?
Currently other than gutting an AVIO adapter, you'd have to sign on as a product manufacturer under NDA, develop a project using an ultimo module which requires I2S audio codecs, misc passives, and the ethernet bits (magnetic isolation, plus any POE to boot).
I DO NEED 8 In and Dante Out like the one you are showing. i also had a talk with an Audinate representative but without have result. The reason? Imagine a Decca-Tree that is traveling just via Dante supplied in PoE. Or the ORTF-3D .. .8 Inputs and 1 Dante PoE output ... these cases were mine ... a Cat Box of 4 and 8 analogue and respectively 1 only 1 RJ45 output .The solution self-made is to do what you did, but to add also a Managed Switch with PoE, and mechanically make only one device. But I would prefer to have something ready to go.
They wanted to sell me a development kit starting from $10,000. That was over 2 years ago, so I can imagine the price now! sheesh
Dale Pro Audio has kits of 10 now for only $1k - daleproaudio.com/products/audinate-usb-i-o-dante-adapter-module-kit-with-connectors-and-dvs-tokens#description
I have been looking really hard for Dante devices with 16 or 32 inputs for my home studio - but they are really expensive. On the Brooklyn II web page it says that the Brooklyn II supports 32 input and 32 output channels at 196kHz. Would it be possible to buy a Brooklyn II card (on eBay or for instance by buying the Behringer X Dante), extract the Brooklyn II chip and create a device (DIY) with 32 analog line level inputs and 32 line level analog outputs working at 192kHz? How could this be done? I would be seriously interested in that for my home studio - in order to connect multiple synths.
Hey Johan, unfortunately that's not really something you'd be able to get very far with. It probably could be done, but without the access to the Audinate SDK (which you get by being a manufacturer in their program) you'd be unable to do much as an end user on the firmware side of things. A Tascam ML-32D would get you the i/O you need, but only up to 98k for a reasonable price. I'm not sure there will ever be a time when you'll be able to home-brew a replacement for something like the Apogee Ensemble... at least not with Dante. They're not really into the DIY thing & will want their piece of that $10k price tag for sure either way.
@@DcSoundOp Ferrofish A32 Dante is about the same price as the Tascam but does 192kHz. Too bad the price is about 3000 Euro.
Correction. Ferrofish A32 can only do 192kHz on 16 channels at the same time and 96kHz on all 32 channels. When in 192kHz mode 16 channels are turned off. This is according to Ferrofish support.
I'd love Dante boards that I could use with, say, a Teensy, especially if they're priced for the hobbyist. There are all sorts of custom things that one may need, but wouldn't be worth a manufacturer's trouble.
Looking to built cheap Dante gooseneck for conference room. So yes !!! Would like to have this component available to buy it.
It's tough building anything cheap involving Dante. Let me know if you get anything put together, would love to see what you come up with.
Would like a module to wire one end to a full Ethercon, the other end to a balanced transformer to headphone output stage, for IEMs running directly off the Dante PoE with a passive volume control and 3.5mm or 1/4in Jack output to headphones.
Enables Dante Powered IEMs where each pack can be numbered meaning doesn't matter which cable you plugin or where (as long as it's a PoE switch) you always get your IEM feed.
Also a power output module could be used to drive a small headphone amplifier builtin to the beltpack all powered over PoE
The Switchcraft SD-104QA is so close, if they made a version with a headphone amp built-in it would be a really cool box - www.dcsoundop.com/swc-dante/ - the hear m8rx is also pretty cool, but no ethercon, but it does come with a belt clip. I love them for setting up individual stations for musicians - ua-cam.com/video/0aJNrqlorOI/v-deo.html
I would like to make a pair of boxes that would connect to my b3 at one end, and my Leslie at the other. Leslie speed and power control on one channel, audio on the other. The Leslie end would also have 2ch input for mics. Then I could put my Leslie anywhere in the building. I also think it might be cool to drive the Leslie from a mixer bus and I could dump other instruments into it as well.
There are a few 2x2 devices with mic preamps out there at the moment, like the Neutrik DPRO we covered on the channel previously. Have you been able to get Leslie control over dante working otherwise? It would be great to hear more about that for anyone else who might be interested.
Are you aware of a way to add an on/off switch that would allow the 4 mics to be "muted"?
There is no off the shelf product I know of that can mute a Cat snake like this. Maybe ask Dave Rat over on his channel if he's got any ideas, since these are his design - ua-cam.com/channels/_nJM07b0k7C9CvcM-9OH6w.html
I wish they would produce a true mic level input dongle, complete with phantom power. Yes, you can use a standard input dongle they offer, however it needs about 10-15 more dB gain to get any decent S/N ratio out of a microphone, and doesn't have phantom power. If POE/capability/circuit board size is an issue, I'm happy to settle with a single channel version of this.
Also on my wish list is a similar form factor offering 1 analog input and 1 analog output. This would be perfect to create an intercom station or an announcer's box with headphone out.
Nevertheless the products they offer now are very versatile, it would be really cool if they offered just the circuit board that can be implemented into custom panels/assemblies.
Have you looked at the M8Rx at all? It's a bit more than what you are looking for but does send audio both directions. ua-cam.com/video/uLFD5qQ0cBg/v-deo.html
1 whould love 1 mic input and 2 outputs for a stereo headphone.
And if I can use the module to send remote control data to my custom device over the same ethernet cable, then so much the better.
I would like an Open standard so any manufacture can just make there own Audio over Ethernet thing.
Since years i hate that i have to cable Ethernet to the amps for config but cant uses it for audio.
The avnu.org alliance's Milan AVB program is what you're looking for - avnu.org/Milan/ 👊🏼
A 4 in or 4 out to fit in a Catbox would be sweet.
Or a 2 in 2 out to run Dante all the way to a podium or similar.
YES!
Not to mention, a 4 in build into the connector strip on my 4 channel wireless rackes.
I've sent many emails to Audinate for request to documents on how to create HDK and SDK but just directs to sales. I've emailed them too and haven't had anything back, been trying to build my own Dante enabled devices. Tried buying Brooklyn devices and modules but not able to purchase them. Really disappointing that I have to deal with resellers and other equipment manufacturers.
Yeah, it seems like the last thing they want at Audinate is for regular people to be experimenting with their stuff.
I had a brief conversation with them at NAMM about it. I don’t think it will happen, even though there is demand. There’s a ton of IP that they seem too interested in protecting with licensing requirements. They’re also not interested in developing the distribution network necessary or supporting direct sales online.
I don’t know if I’ve ever got a straight answer about a future product / process from anyone at NAMM unless they’re already talking about it 😉 If everyone that’s interested can comment & help share this video, I can show the demand to the right people there, instead of just telling them about it.
What iP do you think they could be protecting on the AVIO modules? It’s not like the raw chips that you need to integrate on a firmware level. Anyone who buys an AVIO can cut it open and have the same thing. Not to mention, they already established sales channels for the AVIO adapters… so again, what would change beyond adding the SKUs for the modules?
@@DcSoundOp I would assume it’s the development toolchains for stamping your name on their flash they want to charge for. Also IIRC those are FPGA based designs. They should be able to harden against intrusion but for a dev-kit style thing that’s not usually enabled.
Interesting... that makes sense if an OEM is buying them (and they already have pricing etc for that), but why couldn't they sell them as AVIO modules to the public? I'm not getting how removing a plastic shell & a few XLR connectors is adding all of these extra concerns.
@@DcSoundOp well of course they also want the OEMs to pay the licensing fee that comes along with the privilege of Dante
@@DcSoundOp Audinate seem to guard the Dante protocol IP pretty closely and collecting revenue from any OEMs that use it is core to their business model at the moment, as far as I can tell. I think that's going to be the major stumbling block to letting project electronics amateurs loose with Dante hardware.
I want a affordable ver of the focusrit pci card for low latency interface for a computer maybe usb or thunderbolt.
They have a refurb in their online store right now for cheaper than usual, but for 128x128 low latency I/o that works in mac or pc, I always thought it was a great deal already - store.focusrite.com/en-gb/product/rednet-pcier/MONFRPCIDM~MONFRPCIDM
@@DcSoundOp most norms need 8/16 and it would probably drive more innovation for things like preamps
Explain your use cases?
I'm not sure I understand, are you asking about the box that is shown in this video or something else? I like the Peter White tracks you remixed on your channel, I've worked with Peter a few times over the years 👍🏼
Thanks for the comment on Peter White. My question is about your use case for the modules you want Audinate to release. Being that they already sell a raw interface board, I am trying to understand what it is you are asking of Audinate?
@@mixinthecloud3338 So, the ask is just for them to sell the modules to the public the same way they sell the Avio adapters directly to the public. There are a good few of us that don't need or want the little plastic case, the wires or the XLR ends. We don't want access to any code base or intellectual property, just to use the avio module boards in different ways. There are a pretty wide range of use cases in the comments here, and lots of great points for and against the idea. We're essentially asking Audinate to do LESS.
I'm still waiting for more affordable Dante equipment to come out so us plebes can use it.
So does sound tools make dante boxes? I know they say sound over cat 5 but will a dante system recognize these if plugged into a switch?
No, SoundTools does not make any Dante products, this is just a fun experiment.
@DcSoundOp would you make me a 12 output dante stage box? I need it for dolby atmos.
I hate focusrites business practices; I asked them to sell me a future proof kit with enough outputs. They sold me 2 mic pres and a 8 channel converter.
I didn't know better and now I'm left holding the back. I even bought direct from them.
Can you help?
Hey, so I don't build or sell custom gear. Maybe I can help you find a solution if you can give some more information. I understand you are trying to send 12 channels of audio for an atmos system. What is the playback source you are using? Also, what are you connecting to on the other end (a rack full of amps, powered speakers? which models?). How much distance do you need to cover? - I know your other response mentioned the price being too high for the gear you've seen so far... so ideally, what kind of budget do you have for this? Thanks.
But yeah I would buy something like this. Trying to find some way to do dolby atmos on dante... 12 speakers...not too many interfaces can do that really and the ones that can are 3k plus inprice.
I responded in your other message, but let me know what your source is for the Dolby playback, what distance you're covering, what you're connecting to + what your budget is & I'll try to suggest a solution.