The Lancia Beta is an Enigma
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2023
- The infamous Lancia Beta was the first car built under Fiat ownership in 1972 - but it remains an enigma over fifty years on. While it saved Lancia in the short term and enabled them to build a raft of truly iconic cars, it also sowed the seeds for their eventual fall.
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What a rare survivor, in the 70s Lancia were known for poor metal quality. Bit of a rust bucket, my mate had the coupe version and he looked after it, but he couldn't stop the rust. Enjoy your videos thank you.
Thanks Peter 🙂
Ne ho avute una delle stessa serie, 1600 cc, blu Lancia, con aria condizionata e servosterzo. Ne sono stato entusiasta possessore fine al 1989 , quando acquistai una Thema 2,0 ie . Grazie per il bellissimo video!!
Hi Ed and all viewers , grab yourself a coffee pull up a chair for this one! The stigma against the Lancia Beta was a political one as well as industrial. Pre Fiat take -over in 1969, Lancias we’re very expensive, 1 ; because of the high engineering integrity of their designs but also 2; because the UK had a huge tax levy on imported goods , put on by Clement Attlee after the Second World War, to protect the UK economy. This in itself made the likes of Lancias , Alfa Romeos and the Volvo coupes on the same price rung as E Type Jaguars.( as Clarkson has often said on Top Gear. This made the purchaser of such such cars to be , without trying to be snobbish, but let it be said , a very discerning buyer , and probably a very enthusiastic one too, caring for his car to the last detail. Pre Fiat purchase, Lancia emphasised a lot of investment in engineering design , with things like sliding pillar suspensions, flat 4 engines in the Flavia model , narrow angle V4 in the Fulvia , all very unique , but not a lot into production engineering which left a lot to be desired if first time fit and finish is your objective ( such as the Japanese introduced) , therefore the cars very often had to be hand finished after with extra lead loading for accuracy in panel fit etc; this proved overly expensive. Subsequently Lancia lost money. Fiat bought the company for small change, but honoured all the debts that Lancia built up, which was considerable. Enter a more productive design in the way of the Beta. Although it used the excellent Lampredi Fiat twin cam , Lancia introduced a longer block design by 70mm to help with future higher engine capacity , this was through Lancia themselves. The suspension, with all round strut arrangement Fiat had shown great experience with , which not only saved space and gave good driving qualities but in the Betas design was multi linked to the rear axle , in such a way , that both Ford and Toyota used the Beta as an example for their 1990s Mondeo and Carina models respectively, such was the way the Beta gave a combination of excellent road holding and quality of ride comfort. Cars that were 20 years after, enough said! Back to the 1974 and UK joining the Common Market. The trade levies on imported goods lifted, the cars produced from abroad comparatively cheaper, including Betas and Alfasud. On introduction a lot sat in the docks for ages due to the heavy fuel crisis at the time. When some learned road testers , tested the Beta, such as John Bolster from Autosport and Roger Bell from The Motor magazine , they declared it the best Lancia yet! The cars were still expensive, not in Jaguars territory but more above Cortina’s and the like. The buyer, although pleased he had something different to impress the neighbours on his drive , rather than a four lettered word, he may not have been so exacting on his enthusiastic care as buyers before. ( again not wishing to be snobbish) . The Lancias rust problem wasn’t through Russian steel but how cars sat outside unprepared and unprotected during lengthy strikes ( much like the SD1 Rover) . However, it was the Daily Mirror which started the ball rolling to condemn the Lancia to the rusty bin. They had long been against the lifting of the import duty , wanting to keep the protection to UK produce, and subsequent heavy importation of foreign cars which were in fairness offering better value. Lancia had sold more cars in 1977 than BMW. The Mirror picked on them BIG TIME , as the findings were there was surface rust appearing on the back engine’s subframe mount , this appears on the Mk1 Beta saloon only , not coupes or other models which differed in its design, the Mk2 Berlina already had switched to the better design, but this didn’t stop the momentum of media to gather pace to make even national news against the Lancia. They said the engines would fall out, they never did and never would have. As you mentioned despite Lancias incredible rally record, introduction of a 6 year anti corrosion warranty ( linking with Saab) , their name was tarnished for good in the UK . PITY. Have you driven a Beta, I have. I can tell you now, it’s a masterclass. I drove a HPE some years back. It’s ride comfort was amazing for a “ modern “ let alone a car of 30 years old at the time , the steering heavy at parking, but very communicative once on the move , very little roll and quite astonishing road holding . Brakes quite heavily servoed , but very powerful , fade free. An Australian magazine, The Motor Manual tested a Berlina 2 litres brakes . It stopped the car from 70 mph inside 44 metres . No fade. Again 44 metres no fade. 10 times on the trot , no fade . 44 meters, no fade , show me a modern that will do that! The packaging of these models , particularly the Berlina and HPE is tardis like inside , being FWD and the clever suspension not encroaching on interior volume. Fan of the Beta , very much. The current following of these cars , although small in numbers , give the car the credit, it always deserved. ❤.
Great minds think alike. Almost word for word! However, not every dealer was ignorant of the problem affecting Berlina models only. Some even acting before Lancia UK got directions from the head sheds in Italia.
I seem to remember some brand new Berlinas sat behind the local dealers' yard with the engines and subframes removed and fitted to problem vehicles well before the BBC TV's "That's life!" Hatchet job had every dealer in the land with less discerning customers screaming down the phone.
That's how seriously they valued customers back then.
It's a very British phenomenon of someone stating with a serious look upon their face that "someone they know" had a bad experience with such and such a car, that it is seized upon as being factual for all vehicles built by said company to be crap.
Most often, these ridiculous stories are told by people with no practical experience of owning or driving the vehicle in question and whose parents were still squashing pimples in their parents' mirrors!
Age is a wonderful thing, but experience is better and allows the experienced person to laugh inside when "facts" are presented as fact.
I've owned a few HPE's over the years, and yes, they did rust. As much as any car from the era. Dad's two year old Humber Sceptre required attention on the inner cills, for example.
British Leyland vehicles seem to remain embossed on British history for similar tales of woe, but as anyone living near Lincoln will know, my white Dolomite "Sprint" in Rally decals was 'campaigned' until 2011.
I'll finish with this anecdote from the not too distant past. The local bikers meet at my village hall and invited interesting cars to attend. I was running late and didn't have time to get any of my bikes out of the workshop, so I just pulled in with my five year old Alpina D5 tourer. This car only draws attention from car enthusiasts in the know or BMW people anyways, I was approached by a couple of mates, started pulling apart each others cars as we do when, a little slightly older chap parked in a newish Mercedes-Benz, don't ask me what model because they all look the same to me, got out and said; and I quote, "so you bought a BMW then. I don't like rust myself".
I hadn't got the heart to tell him rust is corrosion... 😊
Exactly! The rear twin-lateral-plus-one-longitudinal link design debuted on the Beta, was also subsequently used in Delta's, Prisma's, and many (many...) more. The design was never patented, ... which is why it was shamelessly copied by Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda throughout the 80's (even though quite clumsily in Toyota's case). At the time (...80's) we used to have a Prisma and a Corolla E90 liftback, it was at least interesting to see how differently the two cars handled the same bends,... and to confirm that suspension fine-tuning is, indeed, an art that the Italians mastered at the time.
I had a weekend job at the scrapyard that crushed the condemned Betas. Your claim that 'only Series 1 saloons were affected' is nonsense. I saw hundreds of later saloons, Coupes, Spyders and HPE's. Once the radio and wheels were removed, they were crushed whole with no parts removed.
The corrosion in the front subframe rear mount was a bit more than 'surface' as well. 😂 Whilst the engine could not fall out, the subframe could and certainly did pull out of the box section mounts rendering the car unsafe. By the time the recall ended in late 1983, five and six year old cars were being crushed.
The Lancia Beta is a car i have always admired, but never owned, having had many Alfasud`s you get used to the "They all fell to pieces" jokes in the pub.. Thanks for yet again another brilliantly researched and produced video, you are in a class of your own..
Thanks Peter, that’s tremendously kind of you to say 🙂
If I hadn’t spent most of this morning trawling the classifieds for Beta Coupés, I’d be lying…
I still get that one now. I’ve owned 3 Alfas - not a spec of rust on any of them!
I love these cars, I’m glad you reviewed one!
My mum had a 2.0 version here in Australia in the 90’s, fantastic car.
It had zero rust back then .
The climate here obviously helped that
A very stylish Lady who lived near us had a gorgeous Beta in white with a dark red interior.
Truly stylish & sounded lovely.
I once removed and dismantled a Lampredi twin cam cylinder head from a Beta in a scrapyard.
I was very impressed and concluded it was ideal for British Rallycross Class C - up to 1600 two valve normally aspirated. Ideal bore/stroke ratio, enormous valves in the smaller capacity engines, hemi combustion chamber, flat top pistons.
Upon removing the valves I found I could look down the inlet ports and out through the exhaust ports - ideal for volumetric efficiency.
All it needed was race cams and a pair of 45DCOE carbs with a decent exhaust manifold to produce a competitive engine. Very little head work was necessary, just a clean up.
Eventually we amateurs got more than 200bhp from that two valve normally aspirated 1600 which confirmed the original great design by Mr Lampredi.
I just love Italian engines.
The little SOHC Lampredi I experienced in the X1/9 was just heavenly. I’d have loved to experience the DOHC in this one.
@@TwinCam The Beta engine found it's way into an X19. The only mid engined Class C RallyCross car. We sold the 1500 SOHC engine and other parts from the X19.
Our gearbox was Punto Turbo with close ratio dog box and LSD bought from Abarth imported by us from Italy. The gearbox cost A LOT more than the engine. We made an adaptor plate to marry up engine and box, Beta flywheel turned down to fit X19 ring gear as starter motor was mounted on gearbox.
We only ran the car at two events at Lydden Hill, it was a rocket off the start and we were getting the handling sorted (we came from Minis). Then our workshop had what the Police call an aggravated burglary - the burglars burnt the place and car to the ground. And that was the end of our Rallycross career.
I always liked the looks of the HPE most of all those variants.
I love the HPE. I’d absolutely daily one 😆
Did the UK also get the Volumex, the supercharged coupe?
@@peterfinucane8122I think we did. Vaguely recall them listed in the data section of car magazines.
HPE would be my pick too.
Yes, the UK got the Volumex coupe - I remember someone on the estate I lived on owning one - a fabulous thing!
We also got the HPE Volumex, there was never a Spider one however
Well done on another great video Ed.
Your research and presentation skills make these very watchable. You'd swear you had a big TV production behind you it's that well done.
Thank you mate, that’s very kind of you to say 🙂
Agree entirely. You're also so warm with the facts and research.
Back in the day my wife and I had 2 Beta Berlinas and an HPE over a period. We never understood why the press were highlighting these as being dreadful for rust as we had no rust problems and found all 3 of them wonderful cars, and extremely comfortable for long distance touring. We miss our Lancias !
. Becase the press wished to guide its customers
Rust problems were solved but the vulgata remained
I' m very happy you featured the Beta Berlina. I really like the Beta & Gamma.
Thank you very much for NOT BASHING the cars of the 70s from Italy.
Fine video again, Ed.
Thanks Pat 🙂
I remember once driving a top-of-the-range 1800 Berlina.
Apart from the driving position, which favoured those best described as 'short in the leg' rather than 'lanky' me, it was the first car which really impressed me.
If only the UK dealers had sent them to be 'Zeibarted' before delivery, I wonder how many Lancias we would see on UK roads today?
Perhaps the Alfasuds would have benefitted too!
Although we have to put everything into context.
I grew up in the 60's and 70's, and there were quite a few ancient bangers around built on chassis which lasted - although the engines were so lacking in power that you had to 'make a run at the hills' and were not 100% confident that you wouldn't have to change down to the dreaded often syncromesh free first gear.
However, the newer cars would often be showing some degree of rust staining along the seams by their first birthday, with many having holes by their first MOT.
A car which was by todays standards a modest 7 years old could be only fit for scrap, and a car in decent condition over ten, considered remarkable (or a Volvo!).
Now, it is the cost of repairs which can be the end of a car.
I knew of an otherwise excellent Fiat 500 where the exhaust was reaching the end of its life. The cost of the Fiat replacement was more than the car was worth!
The traditional ‘Italian’ driving position 😉
That being said, many BMC/BL cars have the same long arms/short legs position 😅
I had a 79 Lancia Beta which I pulled from a scrapyard after passing my test in 1986, it still had 6 months MOT on it. I welded cover sills on, fitted a new tail pipe and off i went. What a car, what an engine. Shortly before the MOT was due the clutch pressure plate and release bearing went into meltdown. The cost of just buying the parts to fit myself was more than the value of the car so I sold it back to the scrappy. I had bought it for £90 and sold it back for £50. Two weeks later i bought the tail pipe from the scrppy for a tenner to fit on my newly acquired VX 4/90
I'm now 63 and continue to spend my weekends under old bangers. The best hobby.😂
Apparently Lancia used to outsell BMW when the Beta came out in the UK market. BMW were really just getting going after being a financially insecure company making some strange vehicles and had not yet produced their very strong and incredibly successful marketing campaign. They also rusted and I often wonder whether there was some dirty tactics involved however the Italians , their British importers and their dealer network completely mishandled the incident. Here in New Zealand rust was never an issue and were highly regarded albeit living in the shadow of the more popular Alfas. They were however seen to be of a lower quality than the Lancia Lancias
As an American, I grew up with mostly big American cars. But I've always loved the small cars the smaller European cars that I saw on TV. I would really love to be able to experience some of the small cars that we never got here. Especially the quirky ones such as this Lancia
This isn't really that small, Accords and Camry's were this size when launched.
Great vid - well done! Several years ago the BBC's Top Gear magazine suggested that the real - or major - cause of the underside corrosion problem was actually due to an insufficient number and distribution of drain holes. So it was really a design flaw rather than poor materials quality.
I remember buying a 4 year old beta 2000 for £300 in 1983. What a fantastic car. Handled really well and looked so stylish in Mafia black. Really miss that car.
My aunt had one in the United States.
It had the 1.8L and 5spd manual.
She was a stewardess for United Airlines at the time and lived in California.
She remembered the A/C was pathetic and would make the engine overheat in moderately warm weather or traffic.
Constant electrical gremlins and underpowered for US high-speed highway driving.
The 55 mph speed limit was widely ignored and 75 to 90 mph was more common on interstates which meant 4,000 rpm or more making for buzzy cruising and hardly in keeping with their "LUXURY" image.
She eventually moved to Chicago and the Mediterranean-style heater, obviously designed for mild winters, couldn't cope with winter weather in the northern Midwest.
The salt used on the road eventually worked its magic and the poor thing went from rust-free Californian to terminal vehicular cancer patient within a couple of years.
By that time Lancia had pulled out of the US market and with parts, never really easy to come by, and getting more difficult to find and mechanics willing to work on it a few and far between it eventually went to the scrap yard and was replaced by a BMW 320i
How I look forward to your presentations. So we’ll researched and presented. An absolute pleasure to watch and absorb. Thank you Ed.
Thanks Mark 🙂
whilst still at school I remember the various Betas and thinking how beautiful they were compared to the rather bland offerings the British car industry was selling us in the '70s. upon leaving school I worked in a garage MOTing and repairing all and sundry including just about every type of Beta on the road. so vicious was the rust that we were failing cars structurally on their first MOT, just 3 years old. it was a crying shame. the Betas were sophisticated, fast, pretty and handled brilliantly but very quickly they were cluttering breakers yards becoming donor cars for their engines and front seats in particular.
our local Vicar had a dark blue Beta Berlina from new. after only 18 months it had large holes in the front wings. some might say the car was truly holey
thank you thank you thank you -my father had one of these in 1981-it dominated my life as a 15 year old for at least two years !
I love your videos! Same crazy stuff happened in the USA too.
Thanks mate 🙂
I remember the Salvatore family next door buying a brand new Lancia Beta and how proud they were of it. They traded in their Fiat 850 and thought they'd gone upmarket. However, within two years, it fell apart and really did just dissolve in the lovely Bradford weather.
I had both the Berlina and Coupé. Loved them both.
Ho sempre amato la beta,avuta sia la 1.4 che la 2.0,macchina dotata di un buon design,e buoni motori.bel video
So che Ed non parla italiano, allora vorrei fornire una traduzione per lui:
Ed, Giuseppe is saying "I have always loved the Beta. I had both the 1.4 and the 2.0. A car blessed with a good design and good engines. Lovely video."
This car has a very beautiful design can't get enough admiring it.
I had a 1977 Beta which was totaled by a drunk running a red light when it was 6 months old.
Sitting at a light and got knocked 400' across 6 lanes and median.
I really liked the Beta. The interior in mine was much 'richer' looking than the one shown with
the dash smoothly flowing into the console...
I enjoyed watching this and I learned so much! TY for sharing your posts and the interesting way that you put things over in a very watchable way 🚗🚘
One of my favorite cars. I had a 1977 2.0 liter in period. It was comparatively fast, and had quite respectable road-hold, especially on wither roads - which came in handy as I drove it a lot in Northern Norway (in the Artic) serving as an officer. But above all, comfortable - and gave a certain flair of being a sport car. Mine was mint green, same interior color. It didn't rust more than any other cars I had at the time. A friend helped me put in steel plug- set, as the aluminium top didn't cope too well with the compression on top revs. As far as I remember, mine had a double Weber and a single Solex carburetor. It was a distinct step on the accelerator when the Solex kicked in, and boy did it kick in !! I ended up in a ditch on the roof and the poor thing was scrapped... This example looks magnificent, even though I would miss the wonders of my 2.0 liters on top revs. Thank you very much from Norway !!
Really love this design. Just a glance at it beams my consciousness to early 1970s. And this Beta oozes practicality.
Brilliant work ed, so much information. Thank you.
Another fantastic social commentary from the UK, squeeze were right up there with XTC as storey tellers from 70s-80s🤘
Great video Ed . Your presentation skills are outstanding.
In Australia there was no rust problem. I owned a 2 litre 5 speed manual until 1989. Magnificent handling car Not a spot of corrosion anywhere but front suspension lower arms were prone to cracking due to the combination of short suspension travel and rough roads.
Yes, I remember quite a few on the road in 80s
The benefits of a good climate!
I had three of these in the 80's straight out of a local auction and run for six to 12 months and sold for a profit. Loved them! Amazing cars for a few £100
Another excellent video Ed. Really enjoyable and well researched.
Learned to drive in one of these in the early 80s is Australia. No memory of rust (probably because I had an Alfasud and that blocks out any thoughts of rust in other cars).
Ed, the best thing about your channel for me is you cover so many cars not available where I live.
Thanks for your time, work and posting......
Thanks as always mate 🙂
Thanks you, another great documentary, I always look forward to seeing them, this brought back so many memories..in the case of the car though my brother in law had a new one, it rusted within months of delivery. !!!! Looking forward to the next release... Roger.... Pembrokeshire..
Loved the entire Beta range. Nearly bought a Trevi in summer 1983 but my brain kicked in. What I really liked was the 2000 sedan such as my ex-in laws owned which was a beautiful car.
I worked at a Fiat/Lancia garage in Thurnby/Leicestershire and one of the jobs was parking all manner of Fiats and Lancia from the F126 to the Lancia Gamma. The thing that struck me then was the rust bubbling out on the Betas. All the rumours were true and some had door bottoms rot out within a year along with wheel arches and sills. To be fair it was only the Betas and many Fiats and other Lancias went on for a long time. It killed them off along with Swithland Motors who almost went bankrupt as a result. I actually bought a Lancia Beta Spider even that rusted away.
Terrific video. My mother had a first-year Chevrolet Citation (X-car), that GM produced after evaluating the Beta. That one had a problem with the manual transmission. But another 1982 Citation 4-cyl automatic was a very good basic car for years. I wish there were old Italian and French cars in North Carolina, but we have a swamp of Korean cars these days!
Thanks for featuring these rare cars. I had an early Berlina and it was a fantastic car: zero rust. I must have been lucky I guess. I liked it enough to buy a Thema Mark 1 a few years later (not the Chrysler 3000 lookalike that you mentioned.) and that too was brilliant with no rust, despite UK weather. Fantastic acceleration, an understated executive cruiser.
A shame you didn't drive that car, which looked in great condition.
I bought a 1974 Beta coupé 1800 in 1981 for a very quirky reason; my 1976 ST Celica had just been stolen and the police suggested I go Italian, rather than Japanese, to dissuade potential thieves. Apart from an initial sticking hand brake caused by the fitting of Fiat 124 parts, the little Lancia bleu - with gold velour interior - proved so rock solid over the three years I owned it, I went for a 1978 HPE 2000 which was more practical although not as much fun. Interestingly, when I sold the 1800, I had two young women compete for the coupé in such a spirited way that they pushed my asking price over $400 !
Back in the early eighties, the garage that serviced my van used to have a beta hpe as a loaner. It was 4 years old and all the exterior panels had holes you could put your fist through. Drove pretty well. Exotic ish.
I owned a blue 1977 Beta Berlina 2000. What a piece of...memory...
My dad had an N reg 1400 Berlina, in green with chocolate brown interior. He sold it to dealer for roughly what it originally cost him, less than two years later. Thus, missing out on the rust woes. But, it was a really nice car, smooth, stylish and comfortable.
Great video, congratulations on tracking such a jewel out of its hiding! a beta coupe/hpe/montecarlo follow up would be great, so much to report about the montecarlo!
Awesome…this is a rare find. Thank you
Brilliant vid. Love the shape. Smooth, balanced and cohesive. We got the Beta in Aus, and I remember it as a small/medium car, but something about the framing of the first few scenes makes it look like a giant. 😅
Great video - slight correction, the HPE was originally marketed as a Beta, it was only later in life that the Beta designation was dropped. I would love to see a video on the Gamma, according to "How Many Left", 32 are still licensed and 41 on SORN. You should be able to get a Coupe, the Berlina however...
Thanks for this video. Long time ago my mother owned an HPE. The dealer insisted we get a first class rust proofing when we bought it. The car had serious issues when it comes to build quality. In the first week the spot welds holding one of the rear quarter windows let go and the dealer fixed it using rivets. When the car was three weeks old the steering column wore through the main wiring loom which was rubbing against it resulting in the whole dash on fire. Generally the car was enjoyable to drive and overall quite reliable but sure needed a regular Italian tune-up.
What better way to start a Saturday.... Very interesting video. Always liked Lancia, they gave the automotive world some unique en beautiful cars. I should have some original black and white press photos from this era. As a kid (and still) , I always loved the HPE.
Have a great weekend Ed.
Best wishes from the Netherlands.
Thanks as always mate 🙂
In my (Dutch) family we have been driving Lancia's since the 70s, right to this day. The Berlina 3rd series my late father bought new in 1981 was driven until 2008. And only because a collision ended its life. Great car, especially compared with poorly equipped Fords and Volkswagens at the time. Fond memories!
I've purchased two cars from manor park classics very slick outfit good photos of the underside to give a good insight to any corrosion, commission are not cheap but its a first devision auction house
I owned a bright red Beta 1300 coupe in 1982. It was a 1978 car (HFC286S) and had been bought new by my Godmother who had the presence of mind to get the thing Dinatrol wax rust proofed which had preserved the car perfectly.
It was a great little car with its wooden gearknob and steering wheel rim and went like a rocket for a 1.3 - it would easily do 115-120 mph indicated. I kept it for a couple of years until a two year old (dare I say it) Cortina 2.0 Crusader came my way at a reasonable price.
What a rare survivor, pretty much most of these rotted away by the beginning of the 80’s!
Love the styling of Italian cars especially the Lancias and Alfa Romeo and that Beta is no different, a very stylish 70’s car, it reminds me of the shape of a mk1 VW Passat with that couple shape and those wheels.
That car is either a rebuild or it’s been cosseted it’s entire life but full respect to it’s owners over the years.
Thanks for another interesting and again well researched video Ed, I always enjoy your car reviews, you still remind me of Quentin Wilson’s style of delivery except the queens/kings English and the constant similes and puns.
Thanks again mate.👍
My Dad had a 1976 1.4 Berlina. The engine rusted and he sourced a 1.6 engine for it. It was written off in an accident in 1980.
I never realised until watching the side profile here, how similar these were to the Renault's 16, 20 & 30.
I had a beta coupe 2.0 auto in ice silver blue. Twin headlights, mean looking, beautiful car and rapid for the day. Being a company car I only had it for 18 months but loved it.
We had two lancia beta notch backs a 1979 metallic red and a 1982 bottle green car both lancia 2000 and they where fast. Reliable comfortable roomy car travelled from North West England to southern Spain via France. Fully loaded several times.
The 1983 trevi saloon was light blue metallic blue tinted windows but it had 2000 vx fitted
Big Car features the Lancia Delta and Twin Cam features the Lancia Beta on the same day? What fun!
Loved the video, and all the great information in it. Too bad you weren't able to take it out for a drive. I would've loved to have gotten your opinion.
I always loved the trevi, to me such an interesting car. Nice all the other betas but i would buy both a coupé and an HPE. Glad to see a not so common car in a UK based UA-cam channel, Great video
Very interesting Ed. and what a beautiful…..rare….example.
Thanks as always Peter 🙂
Thanks, Ed. Great video as always. That is a beautiful car indeed. That rear roof line reminds me of the 78/79 Buick Century/Regal and Oldsmobile Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme 2 and 4 door sedans. Just too bad the Lancia is front wheel drive.
I remember my old man bought one of these in the early 80s growing up in Ireland. It was the same colour with a weird mustard colour fabric interior. The back seat had a pull down arm rest and seats were very comfy. It was a rust bucket and short lived.
GREAT, GREAT VIDEO! From the two perceptions of Lancia, to the Russian steel myth.... EXCELLENT; and word perfect! I've heard many a 'car fan' reference the "rust and Russian steel story".
I think it was 'That's Life' that started the exaggerated horror stories, leading to the media feeding frenzy.
Great seeing the Trevi too. Who could forget the 'Swiss cheese' dash? Fantastic!😂
Thanks David 🙂
Excellent Ed thanks for researching. I remember the fall of Lancia very well. However the Delta Integrale did much to rekindle the Lancia love affair! Keep up the great channel.
Thanks Ian 🙂
Good vid as always.
I always liked the HPE. It was a head turner in its day, as was the Montecarlo. Used to see one regularly on my walk to school.
Do you think those lovely folk at Manor Park Classics will let you take these featured cars out for a drive?
Thank you for an interesting video. It was a very good family car with good handling and ride, with a large glass area, like Audis of the day.
The one in your video is a facelift version. The first iteration had different rear side-window treatment.
Betas were actually sold here in the USA from 1976 to about 1980 in small numbers.
My father had one, a 1.6 second generation like this one, in light metallic grey. He bought it new in 79.kept it until 1988 when he switched to a then new Croma 2.0 cht. As a kid I remember my father sometimes attributing some minor faults to the fact that the car was built in a period of strikes. Still the car was pretty good and didn't rust away.
ORU213M was my 1600. Loved it. Factory Zeibarted too!
Its great to see one of these still running and in such excellent condition. It's very reminiscent of the original VW Passat in it's design. I remember all the furore about the rusty Lancias and if it weren't for the Delta's success in the rallies they might have left the UK market earlier.
Love these old motors..
My dad had one from new, it was a beautiful car I loved it.
The car you have there is probably in better condition than when it was new. My godmother lived out in the country on a small farm. Next to her house was a field that was rented out to the local Lancia/Fiat dealer where they stored cars. Yes, literally in a field. I remember being quite upset in the mid seventies when I saw several Beta models along with FIat 128, 124, and 127s parked in this field standing in ankle deep water and covered in dust from the farming going on around them. Remember, these were brand new un-registered cars. It soon became common local knowledge that any new Fiat or Lancia sold from this dealer, now long gone, came from this field. Surprise, surprise, they didn.t sell many.
I’m led to believe that the owner is selling this one because he has two others, and this is the worst of the three 😬😅
I was fortunate, bought T reg 1600. Beta and had it undersealed with Zeibart so when the rust issue surfaced a local dealer gave me a good price as he needed good ones to sell to owners of problem cars. Great pity as the Beta was an excellent car for its time with that OHC engine.
My dad had this very model, an 1800 in maroon. One of the early ones, I was probably about 9, it had no issues getting to 100mph and seemed a very sporty and unusual car even then. My schoolmates loved it! Unfortunately it was ultimately scrapped within a year or two. After he handed it in it sat on their lot for over 3 months with many others, I used to cycle to see it. Lancia/Fiat bought them back from owners, my dad got a deal with Fiat on a very boring 128. My favourite Lancia is the 80's exec car the Lancia Gamma coupe, not many of them left either.......
I owned a HPE back in the mid to late 80s. Lovely to drive, relatively fast and practical. Had a little rust (which I easily addressed) but nothing structural. Fortunately the body was utterly unrelated to the saloon.
It's main issue was very heavy oil usage. Some clown had previously run it without an oil filter..you can imagine the piston ring wear.
One other curio - the switch for the heated rear window didn't have a relay. It stated to melt after I left it on for an extended period. Surprisingly one of the other (unused) switch blanks on the dashboard was actually a fully operational but unconnected switch, so all I had to do was swap them over.
I had a Beta Berlina from new and sold it with 90000 miles on the clock three years later. It was showing a bit of rust around the edges but I loved that car.
Thanks for such a comprehensive look at the Beta, a car I didn't know a great deal about. Nor did I know about the Chrysler 300C, so thanks again. One wonders what a Beta is like to drive? But I do understand that you can't drive them all. On interior plastics, I've often wondered how it is that Rover P6 plastics look classy and last well, while that seems an unattainable goal for soooo many makers? One more thing - you quite raised my eyebrows with the comment that car enthusiasts would know about Lancia from rally cars. Not so in my case I'm afraid. I have no interest in any racing, but the mention of Lancia conjured in my mind the advanced engineering of the Lambda.
Just about to shut down my laptop (12:50AM) here, but what did see waiting just
for me?? Why a new Twin-Cam video --- will just had to watch it before bed.....
Good priorities 😉
I had a new Beta 2000 berlina in 1979 in Rossa red it was quite a nice car with good performance for the time with a lovely exhaust note as soon as the door pillars and wings started to rust I got shot of it. The dealer gave up Lancia and had a shed full of parts nobody wanted but they did rust at an alarming rate of knots.
The Fulvia was quite a good quality car, we had one in the showroom and I was quite impressed.
I'm old enough to remember the rust horror but I'm still finding this immaculate looking example to be strangely attractive. Thinking about it, I suppose this first in a series of FIAT owned Lancia's named after the Greek alphabet is called the 'Beta' - rather than the more logical ''Alpha' - because the 'Lancia Alpha' would have just led to confused with the Alfa Romeo brand.
Also that pale green colour is as late 1970's as they come - yes cars of that era may not always have been very good but at least buyers weren't so terrified of colour they ordered everything in black or Battleship grey.
Yes, the series started again at Beta, harking back to Vincenzo Lancia himself, as I mentioned in the video.
You mentioned "bringing some truly horrific stuff over from the States. " I'm not offended; I'm perplexed. I can't think of anything. What was sent over?
I wondered why he said that,as well?! Here in Europe,the only American Chrysler cars en masse we got,as far as I know,started in the early 90s, with the Jeep Cherokees,and later Compasses & Patriots,then we got Chrysler Neons,which were both imported from The USA,as well,later, we got Dodge Calibers,Avengers,Journeys & Nitros which were also imported from The States to Europe. The Chrysler Crossfires,Voyagers,300s,PT Cruisers were manufactured in Gras,Austria,for the European market. Oh,and we got American made Sebrings for a while...the first more compact ones. Chrysler United Kingdom & Chrysler France were created in 1968 or so,when Chrysler USA bought out the English Rootes Group & French Simca....but that European Chrysler venture only lasted till about 1979,when Peugeot/Citröen bought out Chrysler UK & Chrysler France. During those years I can't think of any American Chrysler products that were actually marketed here in Europe! However,English built Hillman Avengers were sold in the US & Canada as Plymouth Crickets in the early 70s....as well as English built Hillman Hunters as Sunbeam Arrows,in the late 60s & early 70s as well as Sunbeam Alpine roadsters & Sunbeam Rapier coupés. English Hillman Mixes were sold in North America in the 50s & 60s,but they were Rootes Group cars before the Rootes,Hillman,,Sunbeam,Singer,Humber brands were Chrysler owned. Oh,and Chrysler Horizons of the late 70s were Simca or Rootes designed & developed in Europe,although very similar cars were manufactured & sold in North America as Plymouth Horizons/Dodge Omnis.
Great video, would have liked to see you drive it 😊
Thanks as always mate. But if only insurance was so easy…
Brilliant vid.
Thanks mate 🙂
@TwinCam please please could you say "yes" to doing a vid on the Gilbern Genie and Invader????
My fave looking cars of all time and Welsh
My mum bought the same car & in the same colour featured in your video, second hand in the late 70s then not long after purchase the TV programme That's Life (Easter Rantzen) did a feature regarding the engine mounts & the engines falling out. As a child at the time I laughed my head off & said to mother you've just gone & bought one of those. Can't remember if the Lancia B we had & in the same colour was an R reg or S reg though. I do know if it is the same car the near side front wing was repainted as dad scrapped it against the shrubs on our driveway & the Garage that painted it could not properly match the paint to the rest of the car & we had an electric Aerial fitted on the near side rear too
My first car,40 years ago now, it was already a rust bucket, with blown exaust and baldy tyres, a switch on the fan was a cheap fix for a car that was sitting in a neighbours garden for six months because of overheating. £50 and it was mine. Sold it for £150 because that blown exaust made it sound like a race car.
Lancia have always been at forefront of car tech developments, very creative innovative engineering.
The engine in this Beta went on with further development to power the Integrale.
I had a Delta HF Turbo which used the same engine but gently turbocharged and set the scene for the Integrale.
Of course the Beta Monte- Carlo morphed into the 037 and we know what that went on to achieve.
These days Lancia are just ordinary Fiat derivatives, even with the ignominious prospects of becoming the Fiat EV range. Such a shame.
Almost correct! Lancia UK were aware of the rust in the front subframe's rear mounting and quietly began to recall cars for an inspection and a clean up/rustproofing job if still sound. Those deemed too bad were bought back at full trade in price against a new Beta and then transported to a scrapyard in Somerset where I had a weekend job. Series 1 and 2 saloons, Coupes, Spyders and HPE's were all affected. Some were only five or six years old by the time the scrapping programme was ended in 1983. Some scum newspaper got hold of the story as well as that awful Rantzen woman and blew it out of all proportion. Early saloons were rot boxes but later ones were no worse than anything else and the subframe mount was a relatively simple repair.
Lancia were too honest about the whole thing - consider thtn five year old Minis were known for serious sill and subframe rot and BL did sod all.
Great review and the HPE and MonteCarlo were good looking cars. Shame the rust killed them and the company, maybe Stellantis will bring them back.
I had one of these in America they were extremely rare, I paid virtually nothing for it
Do you cooperate with «Big car»? 😅
Because he featured the Lancia Delta yesterday, and today; you, with the Beta.
I like that, and i like Lancia’s. And this weekend i leared more about it. 🤓
Lancia was such a great marke in the older days.
About the rust:
I think the steel was ok, but the protection was really bad, i think.
I think one of the big issues about the rust scandal was that as whole they didn't rust that bad, particularly compared to other Italian cars of the time which were terrible. So people thought they had a reasonably surviving car but it was structurally knackered. I had 3 HPEs in the 80s and 90s, ranging from 1979 to 1984. Non of them rusted that badly, no worse than any other car of the time. I do believe the British motor press desired they would kill Lancia, which they did, and then went on to kill our own motor industry with outright lies. Now they're pretty much dead themselves which is almost ironic.
I've always liked Lancia cars. Growing up, I use to babysit for a family that had a Lancia Beta Berlina. I use to enjoy getting a ride in it.....on the Chryslers that Lancia Marketed in England, those cars are not Lancia at all, but Chryslers thru the former Fiat Chrysler company.....a Lancia Thema is a Chrysler 300, just not sold in the UK as a Lancia, they sell the Lancia in Europe, but in the rest of the world and the UK, it's a Chrysler 300, at least between 2011 and 2014 that is.
The Chrysler Ypsilon and Delta were FIAT/Lancia cars rebadged as Chryslers. I’ve driven an Ypsilon rebadged and grilled as a Lancia, and have seen the odd Delta for sale in the UK badged as a Lancia. It was the 300 and a people carrier thing that were sold in Europe as Lancias. Shameful policy on FIAT’s behalf - I’d rather they retired the brand than ‘do a Rover’ and use the brand on cars completely at odds with the marques’ history or provenance.
Love the Berlina as often overlooked due to sportier options - would have sold more in Aus if had trifecta of power steering auto and AC - we got AC option only as engineering for RHD often meant these items were LHD option only as cost and room under bonnet. Aus buyers tended to favour the Alfetta of this era as rear wheel drive seen as more sporty option even though auto not an option they had lighter steering. Oh I wish Italian designed cars now were more prolific than current Alfa 3 model range with 2 being crossovers.
My dad had one as a company car!