I have been out of the field for some time. I used both R22 and R12 when they were the refrigerants used for a/c and refrigeration. They both worked great. We use to rebuild refrigeration compressors with valves when they were rebuildable because of leak by of reed valves. We had no problem with r22 either. We used expansion valves with bulbs, auto expansion valves and cap tube systems. We silver soldered/brazed joints, purged systems to the atmosphere at that time and jobs were completed in a normal time. There were no expensive recovery tanks and evacuation systems. We used regular vacuum pumps purging to the atmosphere for the Montreal protocol was non existent. We carried a 30 lb can in our trucks and it was under a dollar a lb for refrigerants. We did not to have to be concerned of telling homeowners that a charge would be over a hundred dollars to charge a system which had a slow leak. I was fortunate to have purchased two 30 lb tanks when I left the trade which came in handy when I had to install a ac unit in my condo.r r22 about four years ago. I had stopped in a Johnson controls office near where I live and came back two weeks later for a beginning of summer weekend sale and barbecue hosted my both Johnson and various suppliers for people in the trade. I ended up purchasing a York unit from the manufactures rep, an R-22 system at a 10% discount because of the event hosted. I installed it the old school way which I was used to, the triple evacuation method, and got it up and running in about a half hour after all the joints were brazed and showed no sign of leaks. Its been running fine for four years now. I charged it by both pressure and feel. we charged by feel of the suction line, when it came back cold that was vindictive that she was good, frost back on suction was an overcharge and all that needed doing was to let gas out of the suction line till it sweated back. I bought a few cans of 134a for my old 1997 Acura cl and dumped gas in it, had not been turning on the air during the winter to keep the seals lubricated and have not touched that yet, each summer it still kicks out the ac to my liking I am not accustomed to the new refrigerants, have got the temp-pressure charts for them, but I suppose that will be up to the new kids to get a handle using them. will deal with them if I go back in the trade working part time.
Good blog Steve. R22 is my favorite refrigerant to work with, it is easier to use and is more forgiving. I use the same gauges and hoses for all my work. I reuse all linesets unless they are the wrong size and have never had a problem.
In school our teacher told us to have a set of gages for each refrigerant so you don't contaminate the system...but I have seen people following this rule and others don't...same thing with other "stuff"...I've been in the industry for a few years most of the time working for other people...all I can say...every Tech has his own rules.
Lets all get our 410a and micro channel coils and be happy. JUNK!!!! We will have tons of work from 410a. They are making all of the equipment CHEAP! The shit does not last like the old stuff. They are doing this so they can sell more equipment. Bottom line.
Steve your right on the money with this R-410 shit!! their is going to be all kinds of problems with it in the future with those high pressures somebody got paid that's big business take care keep on pushing hope to have a nice little service business like you got in my future I'm still working for the man!! trying to save up and get a customer base doing side jobs on the weekend and after work you are doing good for your self and I like the way you keep it real with your customers THAT'S RIGHT BIG HOMIE STEVE!! KEEP IN IT 100% ALL DAY EVERY DAY IT'S THE ONLY WAY!
Been doin this 26 years. I hate to see 22 go as well. It is a fine refrigerant. These important assholes gotta keep feelin important. Higher pressures also put the techs in more danger too. Way to tell it. Nice video.
I hear you Steven!! Back in the early 1980's when I started in the trade, we had R-12, R-22, R-502, and rarely R-500 for large commercial A/C systems. Back then we used R-22 to blow out condensers! No recovery units back then either. Good luck to the new techs in the trade 15-20 years from now.
I have noticed however On some MCQuay rooftops I work on 407C is the refrigerant used from the factory however it has a micro channel coil. But if the pressures are lower maybe that's not a horrible thing to explore. I do however feel sorry for some of the manufacturers out there to a degree. These changes were brought on too quick for them to prepare for in my opinion they had a mess thrown in there lap as well as we as technicians. I don't like the idea of micro channell in any case. You can't pump them down and if the high pressure switch trips a few times your gonna have and hear a leak. Also let's think about the 410a being in the back of our trucks on a hot day, that's a dangerous deal in itself.
I like your attitude Steve! I'm new to the industry and was told going through school to have 2 seperate gauges, even by some techs at my company. I thought it was bs myself but now I feel better buying a set of digital gauges that I can use for both with no concern. Oil is Oil!
just purge the hoses out with the units gas you are testing ..push the air out ect..i use the set of gauges for both freons sepret gauges is bull shit .
If you ask me i would say its all about manufacture making more money under the name seer and high efficiency R410a is a part of the scheme. Steve the world need more people like u that voice their opinion keep up the good work
It seems that technical manufacturers conspire across the board to make their products non-repairable, or in other words, disposable. This creates more landfills. This is a bigger environmental concern that ozone depletion in my opinion. Manufacturers of Automobiles, televisions, mowers, computers, audio equipment, etc... They all do it. Printer ink is a perfect example. Why can't ink cartridges be refilled as in the past? Why must I buy a new tool to take off a fastener each time the new cars come out? I agree with everything you said steve. good video!
Hang in there , your doing just fine , Steve ! It's hot in Arizona ! Just had my AC guy service my AC . He likes Day & Nights AC units. He said he hardly has to replace parts/problems.
I agree, before 410A , I used the same gauges for all gases. When 404A came out it was said when you had a leak you couldn't just add gas because of the blend you had to remove the gas and charge when fresh gas. I didn't do that then and I am not doing it now.
Every time I watch your vlogs I get a good laugh Steve! Keep the coming!!! Every time a new refrigerant gets pushed to the market somebody gets richer... It's all about $$$$
Steven your totally right R410A is shit . I knew that from the start the pressures are way higher than R22 ,I my self own a 22 unit and will keep it running as long as I can
I've been doing some reading on the differences of 410a and 22 and have come across some stuff that is interesting. The GWP (global warming potential) of 410a is 2088. The global warming potential of R22 is 1810. So let's think about this we have a refrigerant (410a) which runs higher pressures which cause more leaks and goes into the atmosphere more than the lower pressure r22 which had fewer leaks overtime? The whole point was better environmental friendly refrigerant. But how is a product that causes more leaks environmentally friendly?
Yes, but looking at the ODP or ozone depletion potential of r22 it is .055 because it is an HCFC where as the 410a is at 0 ODP. And is an HFC the missing c is chlorine (not the kind in your pool or bleach) that depletes ozone. This is why there is a phaseout of R22. I understand what is being said though about the high pressure of 410a and it being a mixture. It’s actually made up of r32 and r125. I think that they need to go back and design something that isn’t toxic, doesn’t contain the chlorine and is cheaper to produce, and runs at lower pressures. 410a they want to phase out as well because of its GWP however a court ruling states that they can only ban ozone depleting substances and not those that cause global warming...... (which I don’t believe in global warming personally anyway. However I do believe that the CFC and HCFC’s were causing ozone depletion as this was proven and it has been on the mend since the banning of straight CFC’s.)
Right, the point is that they are trying to stop people purposefully venting the gases. If you shift a unit and a line breaks and the gas escapes then that’s an accident and nothing is done. However if you steal an ac unit, and you cut those lines they can have your ass on it. They consider any intentional release to be a problem and they know that some will be done by accident. On a side note almost all cars now use r134a which has an ODP of 0
It just gave them an excuse to jack up 22 ($700/30#). They invented a whole new industry, and jobs, but the customer pays in the end. Your point is spot on. High pressure and heat= leaks= more gas= more money for the stock holders.
I have been using R-22 since 1976 and it was good refrigerant, low ozone depiction. R-12 was different. But, when we changed to R-410A certified, it runs hotter/higher pressures which more wear on compressors and more chance of leaks on TXV, coils and condenser coils. So, guess what they make it even worse they build micro-channel to increase leaks.
this house was built in 1959 and has the original ac system, it has never been recharged all original besides a run cap. every year is cleaned out and the motor oiled, works just fine and has lated longer than a new one ever will, we are away from the ocean so not that much rust. the thing is huge and loud but it works great.
i am not ac rpair man but i do service my own equipment and i have several older window untis and a central air system from 1959 that works fine no isues besides i had to replace the run cap last year. the charge has never actually been tested but it works great keeps the house cool no issues and does not freeze up so i am willing to bet it is fine.
Propane is good albeit a little explosive how ever as a drop in for a mini split inverter heat pump it not so great cooling works great but on the heat cycle it just dose not have the legs in my experience but great vids guys I hope to have my own up soon
In refrigeration when R12 was eliminated we converted everything over to R134a, then the manufacturers used R22 equipment for a number of years, now when I come across a R22 refrigeration system medium temp I put R404a in with an expansion valve change, adjust the superheat, works good. R22 AC systems I'll convert to R422d or R407c, works pretty OK. I see it as an oppertunity to make money, and for the customer the new refrigerant costs less. A bottle of R404a costs me $89.00. "Don't Buy Chinese Refrigerant" ! it's cheap and doesn't work very good. Found out the hard way (Sam's Club automotive R134a) made in china.
Great points Steve! I don't like 410a. The pressure is too high for systems with fixed bore metering devices, down here in Texas. When its like 100 degrees outside, the head pressure is high enough to trip the high pressure switch, with the system properly charged. & if the system is just slightly over charged, it'll trip all the easier in the summer. 410a uses POE oil & it seems to coat the inside of the sealed system with a black residue. R22 & 407C are just better refrigerants.
Hey Steve, nice subject matter in the vlog. The big question I had always asked and no one ever had an answer for is if these new refrigerants are so safe for the environment then why are they still making us recover them just like the old stuff. Now you have to carry different recovery tanks too. I do use separate gauge sets for each of the refrigerants...
they do not want any refrigerant to be vented ,,they make money on reclaiming is why.. its just a big joke ..use as many gauges that you want to more power to you .i use one set for all
Great vlog Steve, I agree 100%. During the time I spent away from the field due to health and the 6 years I spent in hvac consulting/parts sales, I missed most of the 410A bs. When my heart problems dictated less attic work, I started doing mostly mobile homes. Those were older and again were 22. Now I guess I will get my gut full of 410a, but can say already I have no use for it. As for as hoses, gauges, linesets. I ain't changing or flushing just because of the 22 to 410a difference. The beauty of being 55 is the bs will end sooner for me than others. Is that ending your version of "Eat Mor Chikin " LOL ? Take care, Brett
The oils ARE different. R22 uses Mineral oil and R410A used POE oil. I think what the person that said the hoses are different was talking about the pressure rating and possibly containing mineral oil residue. The comment about purging the lines with dry nitrogen might be to remove moisture since POE oil reacts badly with moisture.
HeySteven, you are quite a riot. I've got to laugh along with you, like the practical humor you can generate. One point I haven't heard from you was the small amount of refrigerant that the micro channels use compared to the conventional coil designs. The leakers don't take very long a time before it stops working with a "small" leak. Keep it going with your stuff and I can pick up a couple of pointers even though I'm a old ac vet. Seems like it would drag out a job filming all the time. Hope you tube been right by ya. Later.
Over seas there all into hydrocarbon (flammable) refrigerants like r290 and r600. I have done some r290 equipment which is basically propane. Most blends that dont require synthetic oil have propane to help with oil return issues. I agree that purging manifolds and hoses is BS. That tiny amount of different oil wont hurt a thing. I use the same gauges for everything except ammonia of course. Top doozie has some good vids on the hose purging debate. Have a good one steve
That's true. I have seen this setup first hand. Sams club doesn't skimp on their refrigeration. They use hill Phoenix controls and top notch equipment, bitzer compressors etc. the only problem running c02 if ya have a leak your gonna need a emergency truck delivery and that can be some big bucks. It's quite an interesting setup I'm not real familiar with it but it does exist
If you have a R410a system what should your head and suction pressures look like on 70 degree ambient temperature day. Trying to get a general rule of thumb or ball park figures.
Jerry Carrasco you should be following superheat @subcooling as a referance,anything below 100 on the suction is a problem i would say 110 /115 on the low and 300 on the high side is something you might see with a.c. in cooling mode
It is what it is. We gotta do what we gotta do to deal with these changes in the industry. Your right leaks will leak faster with 410 higher pressures. The phase out of 22 creates more changeout work for us at the least. Also retrofit work from 22 to mo99, nu22b, 422d, 407c etc keeps us busy. Ive had decent results with mo99 and great results with nu22b with no oil changes. If oil can be easily changed 407c is great imo. As far as ozone depleting i think theres no such thing. Its all about $$$$
I have learn a lot from your video's but I have never see you use foil language my teen son asked me dad is that the same man you told me you learned a lot from I tried to explain that you felt that there was some thing better to replace R22 .I just want to say thanks for making the video I was just surprise please under stand not trying to disrespect you in any was you are a extent teacher and at repair man .
I love R22. I'm going to keep mine running as long as I can. Now that most people are in the habit of recovering it wouldn't be such a problem to keep using it. Money and politics, that's all it is.
You're a piece of work, Steve! haha, but I support Your approach, definitely a money hungry deal with the 410a. It will not be a permanent refrigerant this 410, but the amount of headache it will create, I'm with You on that. But on the other hand, it's called job security Lol !
IMO THE old freon was good. R22 was around for along time. The 410a is at higher pressure and dangerous more than r22. The oils I have to disagree with you. I jave done alot of change outs and not replacing line sets it caused problems. I had a rep out and he saw I didnt change lines and it was the end results. So if I do a change out out comes the lines. New ones in with the new equipment. That is my own opinion. And thats what I do, thats me. Thank you Steve for the video keep up the great work kid.
For commerial rtu's, due to increased condenser size with 410A sometimes we can't use it . For Eng A units we changed to 407C , still a blend but presures close to R22. Still POE oil though which can be difficult due to its hydroscopic issues.
Hi Steve. good rant. I ask myself same question of 134A. Why not. It works great in cars. Also why not just use Lp gas like my travel trailer. It also works great. so it's flammable,so is gasoline and natural gas.
Yes they have the ability to use other refrigerants but most of the good ones are natural and they can't patent them and make money off of them. So we were forced to use 410a ,but just think of all the leaks and how much money you make because of it. Think of the job security the guys who don't know how to adjust to the new pressures and how to properly convert a 22 system to 410 or the guys who don't know how to properly charged system when it's cold when they mess the system up , you get called in to fix their problems from lack of there knowledge. I was in the automotive field over 30 years ago and when they first it started to introduce microchannel to this day it's Leak City guaranteed condenser replacement all the time and customers AC systems breaking down on automobiles all the time, Microchannel makes us big money on replacements for repairs and screws the customer over on an AC system that has a short life.
Nice video. I remember when R12 was phased out. Turned out a lot of our military bought it and stock piled it. I'm pretty sure they will with R22 as well. If you can find it I found R427A pretty close to R22. No kidding R134A would have been a good option too. As far as us technicians out here I think they get a kick out of making us jump through hoops. Stay safe.
Steven, you are a 100% correct. The purpose of using R410a was to sell everyone new equipment so that the AC companies could make millions. R22 systems run for 30/40 years without any problems. The new equipment is junk compared to the old systems and its all about ripping off the American consumer. I knew r410a was no good the first time I went to the AC dealer. I was looking at a R22 seer 14 system sitting next to a r410a seer 14 system. The r410 system was 2x the size of the r22 system. Environmental impact is a joke. Just think 2x steel/copper/aluminum manufacture what does that do to the environment . Also it fills up the landfill dump site 2x as fast. Cost and manufacture of raw materials has big impact on environment. They are saving nothing as far as impact. 100's of millions of dollars are wasted and refits are at a all time high. The oil Copeland uses in their compressors with r410 sludges up the whole system and expansiion valves get clogged up so whole system is crapped up. There should be class action suits brought against these companies as they are much worse then VW in that they sold inferior equipment to millions and don't seem to care. If any one takes a good look at what is going on the lawyers would have a field day.
I don't personally like POE but its here and will likely stay. That aid, If I think I have residual oil to amount to anything, I RX11 flush the line set and roll out with the 410A unit. Never had any problem, a burnout is different. HH drier and acid scavenger. I do find digital gauges pretty handy though.
My only issue with 134a is the fact that it can wax up txv's.. Not sure if that was the oil or the refrigerant though.. We have MO99 here now which is a r22 retrofit.. The only reason 410a is popular is that dupont marketed it as the "ozone safe" thing. Thats all there is too it
some one made a comment that 410A is worse for the ozone then 22 is @user/gmguy156 6 hours ago • @watch?v=Le03IaMJc6E&lc=z12cdl5z2w3kxzr1p22vwx1hwtbcyzepx04 I've been doing some reading on the differences of 410a and 22 and have come across some stuff that is interesting. The GWP (global warming potential) of 410a is 2088. The global warming potential of R22 is 1810. So let's think about this we have a refrigerant (410a) which runs higher pressures which cause more leaks and goes into the atmosphere more than the lower pressure r22 which had fewer leaks overtime? The whole point was better environmental friendly refrigerant. But how is a product that causes more leaks environmentally friendly? @comments#
R152a is the best refrigerant and uses the same pressure as a the already phased out R12 while r152a is non ozone depleting and it's environmentally friendlier than r410a and cools better than even r22. There is a very good reason why a lot of older r12 window air conditioners are still running as good as new. R410a sucks. R152a and R290 for the win non ozone depleting, low GWP, lower high side pressure, and cools very efficiently. R152a is difluoroethane and R290 is basically filtered propane. Lower pressure requirements equals less chances of leaks, longer compressor life, and better cooling.
Hi Steven .. I`ve been following you since long time ago.. I have learned from you nany things regarding air conditioning y also barbecue stuff and plumbing stuff ..thanks for sharing your experience with us ..For this subject regarding R22 and R410A, I want to ask your opinion about using a compressor designed for R410A being changed with R22 ..is this possible? Thanks in advance for you prompt comments. .Best regards and keep going man
I'm not a HVAC tech but I do enjoy watching your videos. I have a question that maybe you and other HVAC techs can answer. Since the HVAC industry is moving away from R22 to R410a, I wonder why they didn't move to R134a. I know that R134a replaced R12 in the auto industry and from what I can tell, R134a seems to do an excellent job. As a consumer, the move to R410a worries me since the 410a units work at a higher pressure. It's going to hurt you guys and especially the consumer (more trips to fill up a leaking system and so on.). It's as if the ones responsible for the phasing out of R22 have no concept on how air conditioning works. Has ANY company designed a residential / commercial unit 134a. And about "low temperature", does that mean that there is too much of a temperature drop between return and supply air? I'm sure that they can design a R134a home system that should control the temp drop (I'm grabbing at straws here!!). Onto a side topic, have you or anybody here used condenser coil cleaner on their automotive A/C condenser coil? I have tried it and it seems to drop the temps pretty quick (just take care during the coil rinsing and keeping the cleaner off of the paint!!) Works wonders to lower head pressure on very hot days. Ericthecarguy tried it and it dropped the liquid side pressure down a good deal.
these brainiacks are going to faze out 134a and 410a for some new shut .its all about money and its bull shit ,,,we have good working refigerants now and some ass hole wants to change things to make a ton of money .they got there head up there ass .and i am pissed .do they think we are stupid that the fuck
One thing is for sure all the old refrigerants were much better R12 was very good for medium temp. R502 was beautiful for low temp. R22 was the best for air-conditioning and all around refrigerant now they make people like me carry 4 different types of refrigerants in my truck and I do think they did all that just from money
u are right steve, they are now coming out with R32 and the latest is moving to Hydrocarbon which is cheaper I think Hydrocarbon is one getting popular cause is cheaper
I have the same thoughts with R12 and 134a. The 12 cars operated at lower pressures, and colder a/c's. R134a has a smaller molecular structure, runs at higher pressures,and is more prone to leakage. Plus, the PAG oil stinks and is injurious to car paint. I have 2 old cars that will use R12 and never see 134a.
I love Steve Lavimoniere, I’ve been a heating and air conditioning contractor for 40 years and what Steve is saying is right on ,this whole refrigerant type controlled by EPA and Congress is such bullshit , love you Steve , Phil Bogner heating and air, Scott’s valley ca.
I think R410a is actually a better low temp refrigerant like R404a which I use all the time. But because some genius invented R410A and then they manufactured it they had to get rid of it somehow. No question R134a should have been used in medium to high temp situations just like in cars and appliances it worked good. R410a on hot humid days is way too high pressures plus the microchannel issues equal leaks. Good videos
Was wondering if 410A blows as cold as R22 at the register? Have read elsewhere about how the 410A doesn't feel as cold and that systems using it are prone to more repairs. I am a homeowner considering replacing both a 20-year-old Trane AC (R22, rusty but working well with new capacitor), and a 20-year old problem-free Trane furnace at the same time. Totally enjoyed your video and would appreciate your opinion.
134a is on its way out, they say it is still bad for the ozone. Its replacement will be some shit called HFO-1234yf. Problem is it's flammable when mixed with compressor oil. Already using it in Europe.
who come up with this shit???? what is wrong with 134A its a hfc .and non ozone depleteing its all bull shit and some suck ass is buying off the politions to line there pockets with cash
Steve are you avail for diagnosis. I was sold a brand new York 13 seer a/c and air handler from someone I trusted in my town. he replaced my 2.5 ton condenser and air handler in my attic charged me $8k. it has created so much humidity in my home that the doors are swollen and sticking the carpeting is feeling damp and worst of all i wake up to foggy and dripping windows. the humidity rose to 78% when i kept the cac on this summer. I live in long island and the previous Rheem they took out of here was great and cooled the house with dry air Now i'm dealing with mold smells and we all wake up with sweaty and itchy its impossible to live like this. I called in 3 hvac people paid them to find out what went wong the all said its running they can't figure it out. the drain line on my roof for the cac use to have water coming out when my oprior rheem was in use, since the York a/c was installed not a drop of water has trickled out. the hvac company that installed has gotten paid all but $1500.00 so i'm holding out until they bring the York Rep. I Keep asking could the problem be the refrigerant. One person who came to try and figure it out.He found the handler was sweating and he said it was overcharged..Can overcharging a system like the Crappy York they sold to me damage the performance for future use. I totally agree with everything you say about the switch over from R22 to 410 Am I stuck with a lemon?
I couldn't agree more Steve, R22 is a good refrigerate. The R410a charges extremely fast, these new HVAC systems that require R410a aren't going to last 30+ years like some of the R22 systems. Some idiot with the EPA who knows nothing about HVAC is enforcing the R410a on everything. Plus the HVAC companies will make more money from the leaks due to the high compression.
R-22 is the best, hands down!! Anything they can do to pee on a parade ya know!! .... And if money was not involved I would be surprised. Higher pressures= more leaks and it's an HFC leak; Which means, H-10 or it's' equivalent detector. Makes me wish I coulda been in this trade before the game got started.
....and how does R-22 affect the ozone layer; when it's all the way up there, and we are all the way down here, anyway? We used to question that back in school. One hypothesis was thermal lift. I just couldn't believe it, and why should I? This same government that is trying to get us all fukushima'd, is really concerned with the ozone layer, and the temperature of the planet. Yeah, pull this one: it plays another pagan god is coming to town!
blissJesus1 please... Do a quick google search and you will see exactly how hcfc's and cfcs negatively affect the atmosphere... Its not rocket science, and actually its more surprising that you don't understand it. I won't debate how good of a refrigerant it is. It is dangerous to our atmosphere though.
zarathustra Also, i'm only in tech school right now, but in tech school ALONE i have seen more "deminimus release" of refrigerant than I think is neccesary. A lot of refrigerant is probably released all the time and if we can do something to prevent that than i'm all for it.
Ok, I will see what Google turns up on the subject. Maybe there are some new theories. Fact is, regardless of what we do, we are not going to stop the degradation of this planet. Making our jobs, and lives harder, and costing us more, could possibly slow it down, but that is only here. There are still other nations thriving in industry now, that do not have the regulations that we endure. How is that going to help the planet? And don't get me started on the God factor, if you do not lean to things of the faith, concerning what God says, about the fire thing, at the last days, ya know! Anyway, I'll checkout the google. Peace
The comment was made about when was the last time you saw a lineset develope a leak. The only leaks I've ever seen in a Linset was caused by negligent installs. Bad brazing, vibration rubbing on piping causing a hole, hell steve lav himself has a video of a nail in a lineset from a roof nail, which happens. So the only leaks I've seen on a lineset is due to negligence. John israel has a video of a Lineset a carpenter shot a nail through on a new install on a lake house. None of which was any of these guys fault.
i have found a few line sets with leaks in them the copper was poris it had a defect in the copper pour you could see it with your eyes the copper was not complete what a bitch to find them .so the leak can be anywere
Nice blog Steve. As I have mentioned before I'm not in the business. I am a retired industrial electrician who has taken an online HVAC class and studied on my own. I have wonder about this very thing. Not only does higher pressure mean more leaks but if you have a small leak say in a schrader valve, how does that blended refrigerant leak out evenly. If you need to add refrigerant to a system that had a very slow leak how would you know what the blended charge was in the system after you add refrigerant? It seems to me the only way you could really be sure is to recover, evacuate and weigh in a new charge. But what do I know I'm just an old retired electrician. Thanks for a nice blog.
a blended refrigerent is never as good as a pure refrigerant .. back in the day there was no blends .. now a days all there are ....are blends .its crazy
I was wondering the same thing, oil&vinegar salad dressing is the simplest example. Look at every "blend" product on the shelf that we have, the first thing in the instructions for use is to shake it up, unless it is shelf-stable with an expiration date. Those products break down (expire) after a period of time, and then are either unusable, don't perform right, or require a special process to chemically reblend the parts.
Not a big fan of 410a but its keeps us busy as hell. We have alot of leaks due to leaky coils and due to our environment near the coast. A 410a unit that is completely out of gas sucks to try and pull a vacuum on. I can pull a lower vacuum on a 15 year old r22 system then i can a 3 year old 410a system that lost its charge due to a biflo dryer leaking all the gas out. Sometimes it can only get 1000 microns after a while you can only spend so much time pulling a vacuum till the HO gets pissed off at you standing there looking at your pump.
lee we all have leaks with the 410a its not only you .. the higher pressure and cheap coils is the problem .. keep swinging at the ball you might hit a few .
U tell em Steve haha The phasing out of 22 here in uk keeps us busy a fuck. I agree with what u say about more leaks but it does seem to be on shitty coils more that anything else
I remember hearing about some extremely high efficency 134a ductless systems. They are super expensive tho and even if they still have them i doubt they would ever catch on at the cost of 10grand+ in actual cost to install. (To the installer)
What is your suggestion on what I should switch to on about 15 units that are the old r 22 that are 15 to 25 years old. Some are being charged twice a year but most are still hanging in there. Properties are all a 2 ton to 2.5 ton units. I'm a landlord is Arkansas so a/c is a serious expense here. Love your videos and have learned a lot from them. Can't stop watching them.
i told my boss r22 is going to be gone soon and were gonna have to switch over to 410a..i then told her we will have to change out the evaporators when we do a condenser swap...we have 37 units . told her start a seperate A/C fund.
Nice video Steven, they should find a way to use Urine we have plenty of that flowing around. Maybe we should go back to the sixties and seventies when nobody gave a crap about A/C and opened their windows and drank water from a garden hose instead of a bottle or a Watermill Express. What's next, we won't eat beef because they pass gas that depletes the ozone.. Keep up the good work. Ray
Steve, I ask this question to a lot of techs, but I would trust your opinion. Can you replace the condenser only and leave the old R22 coil without having problems down the road. When 410A first came out they made us think the R22 mineral oil was like Ebola or Aids.I see people mixing this oil now with no problems. What do you think?
its always best to have matching equipment that being said ..if you do leave the 22 coil you have to change the piston or txv 410a will run a different size . if the coil is newer i might consider leaving in there all depends . if its the same seer rating i would have no issue with it blow it out good with nitrogen . and run the new 410a and condencer . if its a 10 seer coil and a 13 seer condenser it will not work so well . i would take it on a job by job prosess
Been in the business for 12years after I got of military. Seems that absolutely r22 was way easier to charge and half the problems I've noticed with 410a. Leaking evap coil seems to be a main issue.
R22 is a good refrigerant, its being banned here at the end of the year. I like R410A, the reason we have leaks now is the equipment manufacturers make shit coils etc, when was the last time you found a leak on a line set? its always the coil or internal pipework. Cheap shit for cheap customers!!!! R404A, R410A etc are going to be banned here in time, they are pushing R32 (daikin have test systems running) but its mildly explosive! Also HF1234yf and HF1234?? they are also flammable, but have very low global warming potentials, the other problem is they can make a chemical like phosgene in the presence of moisture in a system....
I totally agree with u Steve, someone is making money on this 410A stuff... ive had nothing but fast leaks... dont make any sense when tubing is only 1/32"wall with 300/400 lbs something is going to give. Its all bullshit !!!!
410A sucks, now there making all aluminum coils and there popping leaks in the first 5 years, it's ass backwards , I will never put 410 A on my A/C,I'll use 22 till the day I die, it's tied and true,the U S is a disposable nation they make junk no quality and workmanship in anything Sorry for ranting,it just pisses me off,
410a sucks and it's Gwp is higher than r22. R22 is a great refrigerant and it's being phased out. I agree with your argument about the nuclear waste and Mercury and r22. Someone has been taking illogical decisions regarding refrigerant especially when it came to R410a.
410A is here and we have to put up with it so make the best of it when it's comes to cross contamination oils I keep my R22 and 410A equipment separate just in respect to my customers who knows for sure what effect cross contamination well have on equipment years down the road.
steven lavimoniere cool I'm not going to take that chance it's no big deal to keep a Gage set for R22 and keep my sman4 for 410A I even have two separate recovery machines and jugs, Time well tell, keep up the good job my friend.
i know this is an old video but here goes: i got a 1993 trane that my service guy says has a dead compressor due to broken refrigerant line and its not worth my money to try and fix. should i rebuild this unit that ran 20+ years without ever being serviced or should i just bite the bullet and get new unit?
20 years i would up grade my self why put money into a old unit . priobley not a good idea . how many years does it have left ..a small repair yes but a big repair no
I have been out of the field for some time. I used both R22 and R12 when they were the refrigerants used for a/c and refrigeration. They both worked great. We use to rebuild refrigeration compressors with valves when they were rebuildable because of leak by of reed valves. We had no problem with r22 either. We used expansion valves with bulbs, auto expansion valves and cap tube systems. We silver soldered/brazed joints, purged systems to the atmosphere at that time and jobs were completed in a normal time. There were no expensive recovery tanks and evacuation systems. We used regular
vacuum pumps purging to the atmosphere for the Montreal protocol was non existent. We carried a 30 lb can in our trucks and it was under a dollar a lb for refrigerants. We did not to have to be concerned of telling homeowners that a charge would be over a hundred dollars to charge a system which had a slow leak. I was fortunate to have purchased two 30 lb tanks when I left the trade which came in handy when I had to install a ac unit in my condo.r r22 about four years ago. I had stopped in a Johnson controls office near where I live and came back two weeks later for a beginning of summer weekend sale and barbecue hosted my both Johnson and various suppliers for people in the trade. I ended up purchasing a York unit from the manufactures rep, an R-22 system at a 10% discount because of the event hosted. I installed it the old school way which I was used to, the triple evacuation method, and got it up and running in about a half hour after all the joints were brazed and showed no sign of leaks. Its been running fine for four years now. I charged it by both pressure and feel. we charged by feel of the suction line, when it came back cold that was vindictive that she was good, frost back on suction was an overcharge and all that needed doing was to let gas out of the suction line till it sweated back. I bought a few cans of 134a for my old 1997 Acura cl and dumped gas in it, had not been turning on the air during the winter to keep the seals lubricated and have not touched that yet, each summer it still kicks out the ac to my liking I am not accustomed to the new refrigerants, have got the temp-pressure charts for them, but I suppose that will be up to the new kids to get a handle using them. will deal with them if I go back in the trade working part time.
Steve for president! I love your common sense attitude.
thanks for the support djkyle
***** "I'
Good blog Steve. R22 is my favorite refrigerant to work with, it is easier to use and is more forgiving. I use the same gauges and hoses for all my work. I reuse all linesets unless they are the wrong size and have never had a problem.
a lot of people have brought up some good points on a few things .this blog turned out great ..thanks for watching zack
Thanks for all the work you do.
I enjoy watching all your videos
best description of refrigerant change in cac... Very smart guy wish he was in our area
"Somebody's stuck on stupid" best Steve Lav quote do far!
thanks for commenting bnance
In school our teacher told us to have a set of gages for each refrigerant so you don't contaminate the system...but I have seen people following this rule and others don't...same thing with other "stuff"...I've been in the industry for a few years most of the time working for other people...all I can say...every Tech has his own rules.
Lets all get our 410a and micro channel coils and be happy. JUNK!!!! We will have tons of work from 410a. They are making all of the equipment CHEAP! The shit does not last like the old stuff. They are doing this so they can sell more equipment. Bottom line.
they make them like they do light bulbs ..shuff does not last for shit
Same thing I was thinking lol.
Steve your right on the money with this R-410 shit!! their is going to be all kinds of problems with it in the future with those high pressures somebody got paid that's big business take care keep on pushing hope to have a nice little service business like you got in my future I'm still working for the man!! trying to save up and get a customer base doing side jobs on the weekend and after work you are doing good for your self and I like the way you keep it real with your customers THAT'S RIGHT BIG HOMIE STEVE!! KEEP IN IT 100% ALL DAY EVERY DAY IT'S THE ONLY WAY!
+Christopher Perez yes many problems
I am with you man ! You are right !
Vijayanathan Stephen thanks for watching
Always a pleasure watching your videos .
thanks for commenting garcia
Been doin this 26 years. I hate to see 22 go as well. It is a fine refrigerant. These important assholes gotta keep feelin important. Higher pressures also put the techs in more danger too. Way to tell it. Nice video.
bereghostfan68 yes its a big money making ordeal
I hear you Steven!! Back in the early 1980's when I started in the trade, we had R-12, R-22, R-502, and rarely R-500 for large commercial A/C systems. Back then we used R-22 to blow out condensers! No recovery units back then either. Good luck to the new techs in the trade 15-20 years from now.
thanks for commenting brad
I have noticed however On some MCQuay rooftops I work on 407C is the refrigerant used from the factory however it has a micro channel coil. But if the pressures are lower maybe that's not a horrible thing to explore. I do however feel sorry for some of the manufacturers out there to a degree. These changes were brought on too quick for them to prepare for in my opinion they had a mess thrown in there lap as well as we as technicians. I don't like the idea of micro channell in any case. You can't pump them down and if the high pressure switch trips a few times your gonna have and hear a leak.
Also let's think about the 410a being in the back of our trucks on a hot day, that's a dangerous deal in itself.
you raise some good points gmguy thanks for commenting
I like your attitude Steve! I'm new to the industry and was told going through school to have 2 seperate gauges, even by some techs at my company. I thought it was bs myself but now I feel better buying a set of digital gauges that I can use for both with no concern. Oil is Oil!
just purge the hoses out with the units gas you are testing ..push the air out ect..i use the set of gauges for both freons sepret gauges is bull shit .
If you ask me i would say its all about manufacture making more money under the name seer and high efficiency R410a is a part of the scheme. Steve the world need more people like u that voice their opinion keep up the good work
keith richards thanks for commenting
It seems that technical manufacturers conspire across the board to make their products non-repairable, or in other words, disposable. This creates more landfills. This is a bigger environmental concern that ozone depletion in my opinion. Manufacturers of Automobiles, televisions, mowers, computers, audio equipment, etc... They all do it. Printer ink is a perfect example. Why can't ink cartridges be refilled as in the past? Why must I buy a new tool to take off a fastener each time the new cars come out? I agree with everything you said steve. good video!
Hang in there , your doing just fine , Steve ! It's hot in Arizona ! Just had my AC guy service my AC . He likes Day & Nights AC units. He said he hardly has to replace parts/problems.
Great vlod Steve about r22 and 410A
thanks harry for the support
I agree, before 410A , I used the same gauges for all gases. When 404A came out it was said when you had a leak you couldn't just add gas because of the blend you had to remove the gas and charge when fresh gas. I didn't do that then and I am not doing it now.
thanks wayne for watching @ commenting
Every time I watch your vlogs I get a good laugh Steve! Keep the coming!!! Every time a new refrigerant gets pushed to the market somebody gets richer... It's all about $$$$
i do agree its all about money ..
Steven your totally right R410A is shit . I knew that from the start the pressures are way higher than R22 ,I my self own a 22 unit and will keep it running as long as I can
ducklandwikeno thanks for the comment
I've been doing some reading on the differences of 410a and 22 and have come across some stuff that is interesting. The GWP (global warming potential) of 410a is 2088. The global warming potential of R22 is 1810.
So let's think about this we have a refrigerant (410a) which runs higher pressures which cause more leaks and goes into the atmosphere more than the lower pressure r22 which had fewer leaks overtime? The whole point was better environmental friendly refrigerant. But how is a product that causes more leaks environmentally friendly?
some good points you make ....its a money making thing i do believe
Yes, but looking at the ODP or ozone depletion potential of r22 it is .055 because it is an HCFC where as the 410a is at 0 ODP. And is an HFC the missing c is chlorine (not the kind in your pool or bleach) that depletes ozone. This is why there is a phaseout of R22. I understand what is being said though about the high pressure of 410a and it being a mixture. It’s actually made up of r32 and r125. I think that they need to go back and design something that isn’t toxic, doesn’t contain the chlorine and is cheaper to produce, and runs at lower pressures. 410a they want to phase out as well because of its GWP however a court ruling states that they can only ban ozone depleting substances and not those that cause global warming...... (which I don’t believe in global warming personally anyway. However I do believe that the CFC and HCFC’s were causing ozone depletion as this was proven and it has been on the mend since the banning of straight CFC’s.)
Right, the point is that they are trying to stop people purposefully venting the gases. If you shift a unit and a line breaks and the gas escapes then that’s an accident and nothing is done. However if you steal an ac unit, and you cut those lines they can have your ass on it. They consider any intentional release to be a problem and they know that some will be done by accident. On a side note almost all cars now use r134a which has an ODP of 0
watching your videos for a while this is definitely the best one it's everything I've been thinking since I started the trade
It just gave them an excuse to jack up 22 ($700/30#). They invented a whole new industry, and jobs, but the customer pays in the end. Your point is spot on. High pressure and heat= leaks= more gas= more money for the stock holders.
I have been using R-22 since 1976 and it was good refrigerant, low ozone depiction. R-12 was different. But, when we changed to R-410A certified, it runs hotter/higher pressures which more wear on compressors and more chance of leaks on TXV, coils and condenser coils. So, guess what they make it even worse they build micro-channel to increase leaks.
I love people like this! Talking real! You would get along well with a lot of my home town people in Australia mate:))
this house was built in 1959 and has the original ac system, it has never been recharged all original besides a run cap. every year is cleaned out and the motor oiled, works just fine and has lated longer than a new one ever will, we are away from the ocean so not that much rust. the thing is huge and loud but it works great.
i am not ac rpair man but i do service my own equipment and i have several older window untis and a central air system from 1959 that works fine no isues besides i had to replace the run cap last year. the charge has never actually been tested but it works great keeps the house cool no issues and does not freeze up so i am willing to bet it is fine.
Propane is good albeit a little explosive how ever as a drop in for a mini split inverter heat pump it not so great cooling works great but on the heat cycle it just dose not have the legs in my experience but great vids guys I hope to have my own up soon
thanks for commenting sam
In refrigeration when R12 was eliminated we converted everything over to R134a, then the manufacturers used R22 equipment for a number of years, now when I come across a R22 refrigeration system medium temp I put R404a in with an expansion valve change, adjust the superheat, works good. R22 AC systems I'll convert to R422d or R407c, works pretty OK. I see it as an oppertunity to make money, and for the customer the new refrigerant costs less. A bottle of R404a costs me $89.00. "Don't Buy Chinese Refrigerant" ! it's cheap and doesn't work very good. Found out the hard way (Sam's Club automotive R134a) made in china.
never pays to buy cheap freon .thanks for commenting jim i always value your oppion
Great points Steve!
I don't like 410a.
The pressure is too high for systems with fixed bore metering devices, down here in Texas.
When its like 100 degrees outside, the head pressure is high enough to trip the high pressure switch, with the system properly charged.
& if the system is just slightly over charged, it'll trip all the easier in the summer.
410a uses POE oil & it seems to coat the inside of the sealed system with a black residue.
R22 & 407C are just better refrigerants.
Steve, your comments that 410a would be replaced were prophetic. Sure is.
Hey Steve, nice subject matter in the vlog. The big question I had always asked and no one ever had an answer for is if these new refrigerants are so safe for the environment then why are they still making us recover them just like the old stuff. Now you have to carry different recovery tanks too. I do use separate gauge sets for each of the refrigerants...
they do not want any refrigerant to be vented ,,they make money on reclaiming is why.. its just a big joke ..use as many gauges that you want to more power to you .i use one set for all
Great vlog Steve, I agree 100%. During the time I spent away from the field due to health and the 6 years I spent in hvac consulting/parts sales, I missed most of the 410A bs. When my heart problems dictated less attic work, I started doing mostly mobile homes. Those were older and again were 22. Now I guess I will get my gut full of 410a, but can say already I have no use for it. As for as hoses, gauges, linesets. I ain't changing or flushing just because of the 22 to 410a difference. The beauty of being 55 is the bs will end sooner for me than others. Is that ending your version of "Eat Mor Chikin " LOL ? Take care, Brett
thanks for watching @ commenting brett
I love your show 👍
The oils ARE different. R22 uses Mineral oil and R410A used POE oil. I think what the person that said the hoses are different was talking about the pressure rating and possibly containing mineral oil residue. The comment about purging the lines with dry nitrogen might be to remove moisture since POE oil reacts badly with moisture.
HeySteven, you are quite a riot. I've got to laugh along with you, like the practical humor you can generate. One point I haven't heard from you was the small amount of refrigerant that the micro channels use compared to the conventional coil designs. The leakers don't take very long a time before it stops working with a "small" leak. Keep it going with your stuff and I can pick up a couple of pointers even though I'm a old ac vet. Seems like it would drag out a job filming all the time. Hope you tube been right by ya. Later.
Over seas there all into hydrocarbon (flammable) refrigerants like r290 and r600. I have done some r290 equipment which is basically propane. Most blends that dont require synthetic oil have propane to help with oil return issues. I agree that purging manifolds and hoses is BS. That tiny amount of different oil wont hurt a thing. I use the same gauges for everything except ammonia of course. Top doozie has some good vids on the hose purging debate. Have a good one steve
thanks for your commenting awsom i always like to hear your take on things
My refrigeration buddy said they just set up a SAMs Club with C02.... Head pressures get up to 600 psi! Only nice thing about that is you can vent it!
That's true. I have seen this setup first hand. Sams club doesn't skimp on their refrigeration. They use hill Phoenix controls and top notch equipment, bitzer compressors etc. the only problem running c02 if ya have a leak your gonna need a emergency truck delivery and that can be some big bucks. It's quite an interesting setup I'm not real familiar with it but it does exist
who come up with this shit??? co2 crazy .600 psi is high pressure
If you have a R410a system what should your head and suction pressures look like on 70 degree ambient temperature day. Trying to get a general rule of thumb or ball park figures.
Jerry Carrasco you should be following superheat @subcooling as a referance,anything below 100 on the suction is a problem i would say 110 /115 on the low and 300 on the high side is something you might see with a.c. in cooling mode
I agree with you 100 percent Steve!!!
thanks for commenting brennanac
It is what it is. We gotta do what we gotta do to deal with these changes in the industry. Your right leaks will leak faster with 410 higher pressures. The phase out of 22 creates more changeout work for us at the least. Also retrofit work from 22 to mo99, nu22b, 422d, 407c etc keeps us busy. Ive had decent results with mo99 and great results with nu22b with no oil changes. If oil can be easily changed 407c is great imo. As far as ozone depleting i think theres no such thing. Its all about $$$$
i do agree its all about the money to many new refrigerants out there its a flipping mess
I have learn a lot from your video's but I have never see you use foil language my teen son asked me dad is that the same man you told me you learned a lot from I tried to explain that you felt that there was some thing better to replace R22 .I just want to say thanks for making the video I was just surprise please under stand not trying to disrespect you in any was you are a extent teacher and at repair man .
i try not to swear in the videos ,i know young people are watching them
Relax man
I love R22. I'm going to keep mine running as long as I can. Now that most people are in the habit of recovering it wouldn't be such a problem to keep using it. Money and politics, that's all it is.
Nicholas CeeA r22 will be missed
that's how they make sure you getting new equipment. if you keep fixing old stuff you make the money not the manufacturers
You're a piece of work, Steve! haha, but I support Your approach, definitely a money hungry deal with the 410a. It will not be a permanent refrigerant this 410, but the amount of headache it will create, I'm with You on that. But on the other hand, it's called job security Lol !
the new thing is there talking about phasing out 410a and 134A now for some new stuff
IMO THE old freon was good. R22 was around for along time. The 410a is at higher pressure and dangerous more than r22. The oils I have to disagree with you. I jave done alot of change outs and not replacing line sets it caused problems. I had a rep out and he saw I didnt change lines and it was the end results. So if I do a change out out comes the lines. New ones in with the new equipment. That is my own opinion. And thats what I do, thats me. Thank you Steve for the video keep up the great work kid.
For commerial rtu's, due to increased condenser size with 410A sometimes we can't use it . For Eng A units we changed to 407C , still a blend but presures close to R22. Still POE oil though which can be difficult due to its hydroscopic issues.
Hi Steve. good rant. I ask myself same question of 134A. Why not. It works great in cars. Also why not just use Lp gas like my travel trailer. It also works great. so it's flammable,so is gasoline and natural gas.
Yes they have the ability to use other refrigerants but most of the good ones are natural and they can't patent them and make money off of them. So we were forced to use 410a ,but just think of all the leaks and how much money you make because of it.
Think of the job security the guys who don't know how to adjust to the new pressures and how to properly convert a 22 system to 410 or the guys who don't know how to properly charged system when it's cold when they mess the system up , you get called in to fix their problems from lack of there knowledge.
I was in the automotive field over 30 years ago and when they first it started to introduce microchannel to this day it's Leak City guaranteed condenser replacement all the time and customers AC systems breaking down on automobiles all the time, Microchannel makes us big money on replacements for repairs and screws the customer over on an AC system that has a short life.
+t lech good comment
you're spot on with regards to govt. regs., this is all about money, changing products etc. and on top of that... your a very funny guy...lol
ringtrap thanks for watching
Nice video. I remember when R12 was phased out. Turned out a lot of our military bought it and stock piled it. I'm pretty sure they will with R22 as well. If you can find it I found R427A pretty close to R22. No kidding R134A would have been a good option too. As far as us technicians out here I think they get a kick out of making us jump through hoops. Stay safe.
When we started out working with R410A out here on the west coast I had to buy about $150.00 wort of tools and gauges just to handle the stuff.
George W the phase outs are all about making money .not better refrigerants
George W 410a is going to be phased out also i have herd .lol
Omg. Your videos are the funniest!
thanks for watching jim
You are totally right Always remember one thing: As much as we may try, we just can't fix Stupid!
Michael Licitra thanks for watching
Steven, you are a 100% correct. The purpose of using R410a was to sell everyone new equipment so that the AC companies could make millions. R22 systems run for 30/40 years without any problems. The new equipment is junk compared to the old systems and its all about ripping off the American consumer. I knew r410a was no good the first time I went to the AC dealer. I was looking at a R22 seer 14 system sitting next to a r410a seer 14 system. The r410 system was 2x the size of the r22 system. Environmental impact is a joke. Just think 2x steel/copper/aluminum manufacture what does that do to the environment . Also it fills up the landfill dump site 2x as fast.
Cost and manufacture of raw materials has big impact on environment. They are saving nothing as far as impact. 100's of millions of dollars are wasted and refits are at a all time high. The oil Copeland uses in their compressors with r410 sludges up the whole system and expansiion valves get clogged up so whole system is crapped up. There should be class action suits brought against these companies as they are much worse then VW in that they sold inferior equipment to millions and don't seem to care. If any one takes a good look at what is going on the lawyers would have a field day.
A friend of mine charged an r22 unit with 410a by mistake and it’s been running for more than 7 years now, I think it’s all about money.
I don't personally like POE but its here and will likely stay. That aid, If I think I have residual oil to amount to anything, I RX11 flush the line set and roll out with the 410A unit. Never had any problem, a burnout is different. HH drier and acid scavenger. I do find digital gauges pretty handy though.
My only issue with 134a is the fact that it can wax up txv's.. Not sure if that was the oil or the refrigerant though.. We have MO99 here now which is a r22 retrofit.. The only reason 410a is popular is that dupont marketed it as the "ozone safe" thing. Thats all there is too it
some one made a comment that 410A is worse for the ozone then 22 is
@user/gmguy156 6 hours ago • @watch?v=Le03IaMJc6E&lc=z12cdl5z2w3kxzr1p22vwx1hwtbcyzepx04
I've been doing some reading on the differences of 410a and 22 and have come across some stuff that is interesting. The GWP (global warming potential) of 410a is 2088. The global warming potential of R22 is 1810.
So let's think about this we have a refrigerant (410a) which runs higher pressures which cause more leaks and goes into the atmosphere more than the lower pressure r22 which had fewer leaks overtime? The whole point was better environmental friendly refrigerant. But how is a product that causes more leaks environmentally friendly?
@comments#
R152a is the best refrigerant and uses the same pressure as a the already phased out R12 while r152a is non ozone depleting and it's environmentally friendlier than r410a and cools better than even r22. There is a very good reason why a lot of older r12 window air conditioners are still running as good as new. R410a sucks. R152a and R290 for the win non ozone depleting, low GWP, lower high side pressure, and cools very efficiently. R152a is difluoroethane and R290 is basically filtered propane. Lower pressure requirements equals less chances of leaks, longer compressor life, and better cooling.
Hi Steven .. I`ve been following you since long time ago.. I have learned from you nany things regarding air conditioning y also barbecue stuff and plumbing stuff ..thanks for sharing your experience with us ..For this subject regarding R22 and R410A, I want to ask your opinion about using a compressor designed for R410A being changed with R22 ..is this possible? Thanks in advance for you prompt comments. .Best regards and keep going man
I'm not a HVAC tech but I do enjoy watching your videos. I have a question that maybe you and other HVAC techs can answer. Since the HVAC industry is moving away from R22 to R410a, I wonder why they didn't move to R134a. I know that R134a replaced R12 in the auto industry and from what I can tell, R134a seems to do an excellent job. As a consumer, the move to R410a worries me since the 410a units work at a higher pressure. It's going to hurt you guys and especially the consumer (more trips to fill up a leaking system and so on.). It's as if the ones responsible for the phasing out of R22 have no concept on how air conditioning works. Has ANY company designed a residential / commercial unit 134a. And about "low temperature", does that mean that there is too much of a temperature drop between return and supply air? I'm sure that they can design a R134a home system that should control the temp drop (I'm grabbing at straws here!!). Onto a side topic, have you or anybody here used condenser coil cleaner on their automotive A/C condenser coil? I have tried it and it seems to drop the temps pretty quick (just take care during the coil rinsing and keeping the cleaner off of the paint!!) Works wonders to lower head pressure on very hot days. Ericthecarguy tried it and it dropped the liquid side pressure down a good deal.
these brainiacks are going to faze out 134a and 410a for some new shut .its all about money and its bull shit ,,,we have good working refigerants now and some ass hole wants to change things to make a ton of money .they got there head up there ass .and i am pissed .do they think we are stupid that the fuck
never had problems with 410a
thanks for watching
One thing is for sure all the old refrigerants were much better R12 was very good for medium temp. R502 was beautiful for low temp.
R22 was the best for air-conditioning and all around refrigerant now they make people like me carry 4 different types of refrigerants in my truck and I do think they did all that just from money
i do agree its a money thing .
Good videos Steve. Your a funny dude. Love the humor
u are right steve, they are now coming out with R32 and the latest is moving to Hydrocarbon which is cheaper
I think Hydrocarbon is one getting popular cause is cheaper
Victor Teo thanks for commenting
I have the same thoughts with R12 and 134a. The 12 cars operated at lower pressures, and colder a/c's. R134a has a smaller molecular structure, runs at higher pressures,and is more prone to leakage. Plus, the PAG oil stinks and is injurious to car paint. I have 2 old cars that will use R12 and never see 134a.
they are going to phase out 134A i herd
I love Steve Lavimoniere, I’ve been a heating and air conditioning contractor for 40 years and what Steve is saying is right on ,this whole refrigerant type controlled by EPA and Congress is such bullshit , love you Steve , Phil Bogner heating and air, Scott’s valley ca.
I think R410a is actually a better low temp refrigerant like R404a which I use all the time. But because some genius invented R410A and then they manufactured it they had to get rid of it somehow. No question R134a should have been used in medium to high temp situations just like in cars and appliances it worked good. R410a on hot humid days is way too high pressures plus the microchannel issues equal leaks. Good videos
Damn you'd be a blast to work side by side with. Lol. You keep me laughing. Good video bro. Keep up the good work
thanks for the support dean
Steve, you're right on track. Somebody got paid off to mandate 410a and look the other way on the scientific research.
stevo i agree r-410a too much head and too much pressure on the low side...... too much mixture gas.....
Was wondering if 410A blows as cold as R22 at the register? Have read elsewhere about how the 410A doesn't feel as cold and that systems using it are prone to more repairs. I am a homeowner considering replacing both a 20-year-old Trane AC (R22, rusty but working well with new capacitor), and a 20-year old problem-free Trane furnace at the same time. Totally enjoyed your video and would appreciate your opinion.
Yeah R-22 is colder than 410-A
No. Don't change it for a 410a. If you could keep it a R-22 system cause it is 100x better then 410a
134a is on its way out, they say it is still bad for the ozone. Its replacement will be some shit called HFO-1234yf. Problem is it's flammable when mixed with compressor oil. Already using it in Europe.
who come up with this shit???? what is wrong with 134A its a hfc .and non ozone depleteing its all bull shit and some suck ass is buying off the politions to line there pockets with cash
Steve are you avail for diagnosis. I was sold a brand new York 13 seer a/c and air handler from someone I trusted in my town. he replaced my 2.5 ton condenser and air handler in my attic charged me $8k. it has created so much humidity in my home that the doors are swollen and sticking the carpeting is feeling damp and worst of all i wake up to foggy and dripping windows. the humidity rose to 78% when i kept the cac on this summer. I live in long island and the previous Rheem they took out of here was great and cooled the house with dry air Now i'm dealing with mold smells and we all wake up with sweaty and itchy its impossible to live like this. I called in 3 hvac people paid them to find out what went wong the all said its running they can't figure it out. the drain line on my roof for the cac use to have water coming out when my oprior rheem was in use, since the York a/c was installed not a drop of water has trickled out. the hvac company that installed has gotten paid all but $1500.00 so i'm holding out until they bring the York Rep. I Keep asking could the problem be the refrigerant. One person who came to try and figure it out.He found the handler was sweating and he said it was overcharged..Can overcharging a system like the Crappy York they sold to me damage the performance for future use. I totally agree with everything you say about the switch over from R22 to 410 Am I stuck with a lemon?
I couldn't agree more Steve, R22 is a good refrigerate. The R410a charges extremely fast, these new HVAC systems that require R410a aren't going to last 30+ years like some of the R22 systems. Some idiot with the EPA who knows nothing about HVAC is enforcing the R410a on everything. Plus the HVAC companies will make more money from the leaks due to the high compression.
R-22 is the best, hands down!!
Anything they can do to pee on a parade ya know!!
.... And if money was not involved I would be surprised.
Higher pressures= more leaks and it's an HFC leak;
Which means, H-10 or it's' equivalent detector.
Makes me wish I coulda been in this trade before the game got started.
they will all leak in the future with this 410a you watch
....and how does R-22 affect the ozone layer; when it's all the way up there, and we are all the way down here, anyway? We used to question that back in school. One hypothesis was thermal lift. I just couldn't believe it, and why should I? This same government that is trying to get us all fukushima'd, is really concerned with the ozone layer, and the temperature of the planet. Yeah, pull this one: it plays another pagan god is coming to town!
blissJesus1 please... Do a quick google search and you will see exactly how hcfc's and cfcs negatively affect the atmosphere... Its not rocket science, and actually its more surprising that you don't understand it.
I won't debate how good of a refrigerant it is.
It is dangerous to our atmosphere though.
zarathustra Also, i'm only in tech school right now, but in tech school ALONE i have seen more "deminimus release" of refrigerant than I think is neccesary. A lot of refrigerant is probably released all the time and if we can do something to prevent that than i'm all for it.
Ok, I will see what Google turns up on the subject. Maybe there are some new theories. Fact is, regardless of what we do, we are not going to stop the degradation of this planet.
Making our jobs, and lives harder, and costing us more, could possibly slow it down, but that is only here.
There are still other nations thriving in industry now, that do not have the regulations that we endure. How is that going to help the planet?
And don't get me started on the God factor, if you do not lean to things of the faith, concerning what God says, about the fire thing, at the last days, ya know!
Anyway, I'll checkout the google. Peace
The comment was made about when was the last time you saw a lineset develope a leak. The only leaks I've ever seen in a Linset was caused by negligent installs. Bad brazing, vibration rubbing on piping causing a hole, hell steve lav himself has a video of a nail in a lineset from a roof nail, which happens. So the only leaks I've seen on a lineset is due to negligence. John israel has a video of a Lineset a carpenter shot a nail through on a new install on a lake house. None of which was any of these guys fault.
i have found a few line sets with leaks in them the copper was poris it had a defect in the copper pour you could see it with your eyes the copper was not complete what a bitch to find them .so the leak can be anywere
Cool art work, the cow and frog
Nice blog Steve. As I have mentioned before I'm not in the business. I am a retired industrial electrician who has taken an online HVAC class and studied on my own. I have wonder about this very thing. Not only does higher pressure mean more leaks but if you have a small leak say in a schrader valve, how does that blended refrigerant leak out evenly. If you need to add refrigerant to a system that had a very slow leak how would you know what the blended charge was in the system after you add refrigerant? It seems to me the only way you could really be sure is to recover, evacuate and weigh in a new charge. But what do I know I'm just an old retired electrician. Thanks for a nice blog.
a blended refrigerent is never as good as a pure refrigerant .. back in the day there was no blends .. now a days all there are ....are blends .its crazy
I was wondering the same thing, oil&vinegar salad dressing is the simplest example.
Look at every "blend" product on the shelf that we have, the first thing in the instructions for use is to shake it up, unless it is shelf-stable with an expiration date. Those products break down (expire) after a period of time, and then are either unusable, don't perform right, or require a special process to chemically reblend the parts.
Not a big fan of 410a but its keeps us busy as hell.
We have alot of leaks due to leaky coils and due to our environment near the coast. A 410a unit that is completely out of gas sucks to try and pull a vacuum on. I can pull a lower vacuum on a 15 year old r22 system then i can a 3 year old 410a system that lost its charge due to a biflo dryer leaking all the gas out. Sometimes it can only get 1000 microns after a while you can only spend so much time pulling a vacuum till the HO gets pissed off at you standing there looking at your pump.
lee we all have leaks with the 410a its not only you .. the higher pressure and cheap coils is the problem .. keep swinging at the ball you might hit a few .
U tell em Steve haha
The phasing out of 22 here in uk keeps us busy a fuck.
I agree with what u say about more leaks but it does seem to be on shitty coils more that anything else
to bad r22 was a good refrigerant i hate to see it go
I remember hearing about some extremely high efficency 134a ductless systems. They are super expensive tho and even if they still have them i doubt they would ever catch on at the cost of 10grand+ in actual cost to install. (To the installer)
+Edward Sessum thanks for the comment
hey thanks for your input...great video
+n sky thank you
What is your suggestion on what I should switch to on about 15 units that are the old r 22 that are 15 to 25 years old. Some are being charged twice a year but most are still hanging in there. Properties are all a 2 ton to 2.5 ton units. I'm a landlord is Arkansas so a/c is a serious expense here. Love your videos and have learned a lot from them. Can't stop watching them.
i told my boss r22 is going to be gone soon and were gonna have to switch over to 410a..i then told her we will have to change out the evaporators when we do a condenser swap...we have 37 units . told her start a seperate A/C fund.
Nice video Steven, they should find a way to use Urine we have plenty of that flowing around. Maybe we should go back to the sixties and seventies when nobody gave a crap about A/C and opened their windows and drank water from a garden hose instead of a bottle or a Watermill Express. What's next, we won't eat beef because they pass gas that depletes the ozone.. Keep up the good work.
Ray
lol ray are you getting radical on me
Just exploring all the possibilities.....Keep us laughing Amigo.
Ray
STOP EATING BEEF! You are funny dude!
I whole heartedly agree.... I though liked 12 better then 134a or 135 hot shot
RW GLESS thanks for the comment
Steve, I ask this question to a lot of techs, but I would trust your opinion. Can you replace the condenser only and leave the old R22 coil without having problems down the road. When 410A first came out they made us think the R22 mineral oil was like Ebola or Aids.I see people mixing this oil now with no problems. What do you think?
its always best to have matching equipment that being said ..if you do leave the 22 coil you have to change the piston or txv 410a will run a different size . if the coil is newer i might consider leaving in there all depends . if its the same seer rating i would have no issue with it blow it out good with nitrogen . and run the new 410a and condencer . if its a 10 seer coil and a 13 seer condenser it will not work so well . i would take it on a job by job prosess
2 years ago R-22 $199.00- 2017 $700.00 crazy!!! Some contractors charging $200.00 a pound.
Been in the business for 12years after I got of military. Seems that absolutely r22 was way easier to charge and half the problems I've noticed with 410a. Leaking evap coil seems to be a main issue.
R22 is a good refrigerant, its being banned here at the end of the year. I like R410A, the reason we have leaks now is the equipment manufacturers make shit coils etc, when was the last time you found a leak on a line set? its always the coil or internal pipework. Cheap shit for cheap customers!!!!
R404A, R410A etc are going to be banned here in time, they are pushing R32 (daikin have test systems running) but its mildly explosive!
Also HF1234yf and HF1234?? they are also flammable, but have very low global warming potentials, the other problem is they can make a chemical like phosgene in the presence of moisture in a system....
Most of the R12 replacements for cars are mostly propane. It apparently works well, but obviously it can be flammable.
a lot of the new R22 blend replacements have propane in them .thanks for commenting coolasice
thanks for watching john
We run R-22 through the old line sets to clean out the oil. I don't know if that works, but it seams to work.
thanks for watching mike
I totally agree with u Steve, someone is making money on this 410A stuff... ive had nothing but fast leaks... dont make any sense when tubing is only 1/32"wall with 300/400 lbs something is going to give. Its all bullshit !!!!
Bob Parrott thanks for the comment
great video , great speach.....well said....good explanation...
Question I’m running r22 and my compressor just went out 3 ton system. Can I get a 410 compressor and hook up with old system?
410 will work to replace a 22 compressor but not the other way
Keep up the good work Steve
thanks for watching bernard
410A sucks, now there making all aluminum coils and there popping leaks in the first 5 years, it's ass backwards , I will never put 410 A on my A/C,I'll use 22 till the day I die, it's tied and true,the U S is a disposable nation they make junk no quality and workmanship in anything Sorry for ranting,it just pisses me off,
410a sucks and it's Gwp is higher than r22. R22 is a great refrigerant and it's being phased out. I agree with your argument about the nuclear waste and Mercury and r22. Someone has been taking illogical decisions regarding refrigerant especially when it came to R410a.
R-22 is the best. I got my hands on a 2 ton unit I’m putting in my garage !
410A is here and we have to put up with it so make the best of it when it's comes to cross contamination oils I keep my R22 and 410A equipment separate just in respect to my customers who knows for sure what effect cross contamination well have on equipment years down the road.
Les Swift i will run with ones set of hoses so do everyone else i know .never a problem
steven lavimoniere cool I'm not going to take that chance it's no big deal to keep a Gage set for R22 and keep my sman4 for 410A I even have two separate recovery machines and jugs, Time well tell, keep up the good job my friend.
i know this is an old video but here goes: i got a 1993 trane that my service guy says has a dead compressor due to broken refrigerant line and its not worth my money to try and fix. should i rebuild this unit that ran 20+ years without ever being serviced or should i just bite the bullet and get new unit?
20 years i would up grade my self why put money into a old unit . priobley not a good idea . how many years does it have left ..a small repair yes but a big repair no
Just replace the compressor. Make sure to replace the TXV if the system has one. It should be fine.
I bought a 410a unit to replace my r22 Trane
regret the decision,
now going to get my old r22 rebuilt while I still can